asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $35495.75
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.037s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=687299
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=687299 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.100s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.207s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.240s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.284s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412055 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.395s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.284s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687299
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: 24.28.108.235:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) (Operator: trinque)
whaack: asciilifeform: good morning. I may be interested in working on the 'slow sync' problem after finishing up with the block explorer. The first part of that problem is understanding exactly what constitutes a valid syncing system, afaik prb has a 'fast-sync'. The main issue I see is that if you can't sync via original-trb you can't have bitcoin as per any sane definition of bitcoin.
whaack: So in other words the way the problem has to be solved is by creating an environment in which original-trb can sync quickly, rather than changing original-trb
whaack: asciilifeform: Is there a quick way to apply the patch you did and rebuild bitcoind? I went into the src of my bitcoin folder and made the change, tried running make ONLINE=1, but from the output it doesn't seem like it picked up the change or recompiled at all
shinohai: whaack: Your `V` didn't give ya any errors when you pressed?
whaack: I didn't use V. I just typed in the one line change
shinohai: Ah kk
whaack: shinohai: My question boils down to .. how do you recompile an existing trb?
shinohai: I guess same as you'd recompile any existing program from sauces. If there is new vpatch tho I've always performed new press.
shinohai: Since you said you applied manually, I'm guessing you didn't make copy of `bitcoinrpc.cpp` to vdiff against to see if, in fact, applied, neh?
whaack: shinohai: Nah I did not make a copy, just went right in there and made the change
whaack: I think I figured out what to do, I went into /build/ and ran make clean before running make ONLINE=1 again
trinque: asciilifeform: might want to remove my noad from your list. looks like my ISP churns IP addresses more frequently than yours
trinque: whaack: expand on "environment in which original-trb can sync quickly" ?
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-11#1038870 << surveyed a bunch of these; many groping in the direction of sanity.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-11 15:18:39 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in mathematical crackpotteries. (possibly interesting to trinque)
trinque has by no means surveyed all, but many assume friendly wire, permit something to all-comers, etc.
trinque: unrelatedly, in the past week I've failed to procure items ranging from computers to AC ducting. seems the soviet shortage life has come for us all.
whaack: trinque: In practice I mean that trb's sync should be sped up by putting it on beefy irons and by setting up nodes that can spoon feed it the correct blocks and not waste bandwith
whaack: Instead of "here's a patch for trb" , "here's a network your node can connect to that is going to help you as best it can"
trinque: if trb needs friendly nodes to be functional, isn't that definitionally not bitcoin?
shinohai: not trb anyway
trinque: I'd sooner encourage you to work on making the thing more parallel than setting up network of friendlies that still does poorly at the boundary between it and the rest of the adversarial network
whaack: trinque: if trb needs friendly nodes to be functional, isn't that definitionally not bitcoin? << Of course bitcoin needs friendly nodes to be functional. Relaying a valid block is a friendly act. It needs to be simultaenously immune to adversarial nodes
whaack: shinohai: Am I not using trb if I use the code on the foundation's website and connect on a subgraph of the network to a node that is being generous?
shinohai: whaack: merely reiterating point that if I hafta bootstrap only from only select nodes, then why bother ?
trinque wonders what whaack thinks the bitcoin protocol does, if not establish consensus among participants *without* requiring "also pls be nice"
shinohai: Same as if I am torrenting pr0n, will certain seeder give me tranny clips instead of big booty Brazilian babes I want.
whaack: My point is that the network can be modelled like this: trb <--> trb-filter <--> prb-infested-network. And as I understand everyone has this 'trb-filter' to some degree, at the very least your isp should be filtering out nodes that try to spoof their ip address
trinque: 100% agree that peerings with as many cryptographically-identifiable friendlies as possible is a good thing. plenty of old threads on lifting trb onto a hypothetically wotnet
trinque: just pointing out that interacting with the seam is unavoidable in the forseeable term
whaack: trinque: The protocol, i.e. trb, establishes what is the longest valid chain. But how to obtain the various candidate items to inspect can be treated as a separate problem
whaack: Imagine a design where trb had no networking code at all. It just looked at local folders and determined which was the longest valid chain, and left it up to the operator to determine how to populate those local folders. I think this is how trb should be treated.
whaack: asciilifeform: I finished recompiling your fix, it worked, thank you.
trinque: whaack: who does transaction relay in this world?
trinque: (this can be separate, but what)
trinque: personally, I want a more general dht-wotnet thing from which "give me $item with $hash"
whaack: dht?
trinque: distributed hash table
whaack: trinque: and yeah, in this world methods for relaying transactions etc. are separate and left unspecified. as far as I can tell that's how it works right now
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038951 << prb's 'fast' is because it pickes an arbitrary noad (prb strictly), grabs ~all~ headers from it, and then req's by header. sorta like asciilifeform's 'cement' proposal, but w/out the pgp signature on the cement list.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 13:59:09 whaack: asciilifeform: good morning. I may be interested in working on the 'slow sync' problem after finishing up with the block explorer. The first part of that problem is understanding exactly what constitutes a valid syncing system, afaik prb has a 'fast-sync'. The main issue I see is that if you can't sync via original-trb you can't have bitcoin as per any sane definition of bitcoin.
asciilifeform: this is pretty much the dumbest optimization possible. but gotta point out that the thing people do to get trb nodes standing up fast, is sadly very similar, they copy disks..
asciilifeform: imho optional 'cement' input (i.e. of known-good list of block hashes) would be the sane thing for trb sync.
asciilifeform: but i dun stand up new nodes very often, so never felt this was a priority.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038953 << i use rotor, and run the bitcoind-only.sh thing
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 15:24:37 whaack: asciilifeform: Is there a quick way to apply the patch you did and rebuild bitcoind? I went into the src of my bitcoin folder and made the change, tried running make ONLINE=1, but from the output it doesn't seem like it picked up the change or recompiled at all
asciilifeform: ftr writing and building this patch took me ~10min. another ~10min to test.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 15:28:42 whaack: I didn't use V. I just typed in the one line change
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038962 << ok. lemme know when/if you get static ip, will put back
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 16:43:01 trinque: asciilifeform: might want to remove my noad from your list. looks like my ISP churns IP addresses more frequently than yours
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038966 << indeed. and to add insult to injury, typical impl. is in 'rust', or whatever abortions, unrunnable on any box i have anywhere
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 16:52:39 trinque: has by no means surveyed all, but many assume friendly wire, permit something to all-comers, etc.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038967 << aah, but yer offering the old prices, aintcha. can get 100% same junk, just costs 2.5x nao -- printer go brrr
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 16:54:48 trinque: unrelatedly, in the past week I've failed to procure items ranging from computers to AC ducting. seems the soviet shortage life has come for us all.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038968 << 99.9% of sync time is spent idling. hardware barely matters at all.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 17:10:40 whaack: trinque: In practice I mean that trb's sync should be sped up by putting it on beefy irons and by setting up nodes that can spoon feed it the correct blocks and not waste bandwith
asciilifeform: the thing waits with mouth open.
asciilifeform: (even with 'aggression' patch)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038970 << while this aint false, can also observe that a p2p net requires ~some~ substantial % of noades to be approximately correct & cooperative, to work
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 17:46:56 trinque: if trb needs friendly nodes to be functional, isn't that definitionally not bitcoin?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038978 << billymg is doing the network-mapping thing, lessee what he comes up with
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 18:09:02 whaack: My point is that the network can be modelled like this: trb <--> trb-filter <--> prb-infested-network. And as I understand everyone has this 'trb-filter' to some degree, at the very least your isp should be filtering out nodes that try to spoof their ip address
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038979 << the problem with all such notions is the mining
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 18:13:56 trinque: 100% agree that peerings with as many cryptographically-identifiable friendlies as possible is a good thing. plenty of old threads on lifting trb onto a hypothetically wotnet
asciilifeform: miners are 100% hostile afaik.
asciilifeform: (pretty astonoshing, to asciilifeform , that bitcoin continues to more or less work)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038983 << np. it's a trivial fix
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 18:43:47 whaack: asciilifeform: I finished recompiling your fix, it worked, thank you.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038995 << err, the 'rotor/stator' static-executable builder.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 19:18:44 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038953 << i use rotor, and run the bitcoind-only.sh thing
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-12#1038984 << this if you recall is already a problem in classical bitcoinism -- no serious incentive to relay.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-12 18:45:36 trinque: whaack: who does transaction relay in this world?
asciilifeform bbl