whaack: asciilifeform: Okay, for clarification, you say the non-low-S-enforcing chain, to be concrete, was out POW'd and then in the next line say "after this...at a certain pt (when?) high-S became unmineable" ---- If the NON-low-S-enforcing chain was OUT-pow'd, (by OUT-pow'd I understand defeated, as in out-run) then wouldn't the first
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 18:45:28 asciilifeform: whaack: the non-low-S-enforcing chain, to be concrete, was out-POW'd.
whaack: block where high-S becomes unmineable be the start of the fork, which by pete's article would be block # 363,731 ?
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037407 << this sounds like a very Haskellian sentiment.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 21:29:56 verisimilitude: It could be argued most I/O today is just due to poor abstractions.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037408 << so-called "web" languages have been surprisingly effective with regard to the implementation of command-line utilities, this being no accident.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 21:30:40 trinque: sounds instead like the requirements for webshitlangs, meaning no offense to gregorynyssa
gregorynyssa: this is not to say that I am fully or even broadly satisfied with "web" languages or with Tcl, as I have continued to harbor two main objections which happened to be the same two mentioned by asciilifeform in his introduction to FFA:
gregorynyssa: (1) the rules of the language are constantly being updated by the vendor;
gregorynyssa: (2) programs written in the language contain opaque run-time structures.
gregorynyssa: IMO not only is it imperative that the grammar must be formally specified and then frozen as in the case of Ada, but also,
gregorynyssa: the run-time structures underlying the language must be treated as part of the grammar.
gregorynyssa: over time I have learned the difficult lesson that having an arbitary dividing line between specification and implementation is scarcely better than having no specification.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037410 << the language is homoiconic. it has strong support for DSLs. it unifies function-definition syntax and configuration-file syntax. it unifies call-by-value and call-by-name through "upvar." it has (limited) support for continuations. it was specifically built to solve last-mile problems (functions requiring intensive computation
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 21:33:24 trinque: gregorynyssa: what do you find clever in tcl?
gregorynyssa: would be written in C and linked to the interpreter).
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037415 << granted, just because one can write obfuscated code doesn't mean that he should.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 21:44:56 trinque: watch, I'll do the low-effort thing too. holy shit gregorynyssa, uplevel and upvar mean I can't understand *any* procedure without reading the entire call-stack.
gregorynyssa: Tcl has numerous problems, one of which is the lack of a dynamic FFI (allowing the language to swallow DLLs at runtime).
gregorynyssa: another is the lack of support for UDP.
gregorynyssa: another is the reliance upon opaque optimizations to allow lists to be efficiently operated upon.
gregorynyssa: inconsistently named standard-library functions, a problem shared with PHP.
gregorynyssa: the built-in "dictionary" type which was later added to the language to supplement "arrays" is ugly and unorthogonal.
gregorynyssa: the organization of namespaces and modules was a mess.
feedbot: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2021/of-coffee-and-code/ << Fixpoint -- Of coffee and code
Apocalyptic: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037385 << not convinced we will find out exactly who did it and why, but I'm always up for some mathematical experiments
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-22 20:27:48 gregorynyssa: "we will find out who diddled the keys and why"
Apocalyptic: curious to see what asciilifeform has in store for this new version