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b33r: hi there, I'm not a spam bot, but I don't know I'm doing here. :)
shinohai: [~]D b33r
b33r: (๑•͈ᴗ•͈)
thimbronion: Watching the Gamestop lulz, it's interesting to imagine the havoc mpex could be wreaking if MP didn't kill it.
billymg: thimbronion: it's been a fun distraction these past few days
billymg: thimbronion: should make a lot of these kids finally start to understand the need for btc (what with their "trading" apps disabling trading whenever the house starts to lose)
thimbronion: billymg: one would hope. I am surprised they thought they could do anything meaningful on reddit.
thimbronion: Anyway the whole thing with this Robinhood app where you can trade AS LONG AS YOU DON'T MAKE A PROFIT is hilarious.
thimbronion: Exactly the same rules as any casino.
billymg: thimbronion: yeah, exactly
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030335 << how does btc solve these ?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 10:37:15 billymg: thimbronion: should make a lot of these kids finally start to understand the need for btc (what with their "trading" apps disabling trading whenever the house starts to lose)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030333 << near as i can tell, 'gamestop case' meaningless and summing to 0 , like other riots. the folx who supposedly were dinged, simply will have moar moolah printed for'em to cover the loss, as always.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 09:39:44 thimbronion: Watching the Gamestop lulz, it's interesting to imagine the havoc mpex could be wreaking if MP didn't kill it.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: that's what they should have done. Instead they had the idiots banned from reddit, discord, and had Robinhood disable trading of GME.
asciilifeform: hey, it worked for dnc
asciilifeform: morons addicted to anglotard pits, carefully, for yrs. mouse -- into mouse trap. now -- snapped, as mousetrap is designed to do.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: you know this hedge fund is about to lose 3 Billion or something?
thimbronion: When all is said and done and they get their 3 billion back the redditors will be out like 50 bucks each.
thimbronion: This is like the Chinese stock market, where when there's a crash, all the sudden only the buy button works.
thimbronion: Also if there's *anything* the anglotards did well, it was running a stock market.
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030340 << solve the "we can freeze your account when you misbehave" problem, in addition to the one you just pointed out
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 10:51:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030335 << how does btc solve these ?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 10:54:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030333 << near as i can tell, 'gamestop case' meaningless and summing to 0 , like other riots. the folx who supposedly were dinged, simply will have moar moolah printed for'em to cover the loss, as always.
verisimilitude: I wondered if that would be mentioned here.
verisimilitude: Perhaps what more people will learn is that capitalism allows small groups like this to always get ahead of others, and then justify it, and that this is really a broken game.
verisimilitude: This is another case of ``Heads I win, tails ye lose.''.
verisimilitude: Bitcoin doesn't stop cabals from forming and helping each other.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: oblig reading
verisimilitude: I don't see the relation.
verisimilitude: Having already read it, I merely skimmed it this time, however.
verisimilitude: In any case, how are young people to have any desire to participate in this economy, when the game is clearly rigged to keep them poor forever?
thimbronion: verisimilitude: I don't know how they'll have any desire, but if they want to succeed they will have to participate in the actual economy, probably by doing something that is either unregulated or illegal.
verisimilitude: Yes; it's clear the ``real economy'' is a game where only a certain group of people are allowed to benefit.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: in re bitcoin -- my point is that bitcoin doesn't per se stop folx who demand to be scammed from getting cleaned out. quite opposite.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: re 'desire to participate' -- this is arguably obsolete; are you old enuff to recall when (in usa & other 'civilized') fathers took children to bank to get toy accts, 'learn the wonders of compound interest', etc ? well today there aint any interest for plebe at the bank. nomoar carrot, stick -- will have to suffice.
asciilifeform: 'economy' is purely 'punitive' nao. no one needs to 'drum up interest in participating in the prison' among prisoners.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: and 'real economy' was ~always~ 'game where only a certain group is allowed to benefit'. the occasional apparent departure from this is mere oversight.
snsabot: (trilema) 2015-03-05 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
verisimilitude: I'm aware of how the US economy has been controlled by a cabal for at least a century; that doesn't change this example though.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030362 << (supposing the story took place approx. as told) -- these folx apparently smart enuff to not see 'succeed' as a realistic possibility. rather, would simply like to take a shit on the desk of the designated-successes. which is sometimes feasible.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 12:50:21 thimbronion: verisimilitude: I don't know how they'll have any desire, but if they want to succeed they will have to participate in the actual economy, probably by doing something that is either unregulated or illegal.
verisimilitude: The phrase is ``It's about sending a message.'', yes.
thimbronion: One could argue it's a small step towards ending the pretense of mutual funds and day trading, which has been a very cheap way to shear the sheep.
thimbronion: violence is more expensive.
asciilifeform: the message being sent, however, is 'plebe forums aint censored tightly enuff yet.' which is why asciilifeform doubts the veracity of the story as told in the usual mouthpiece organs. it is simply too convenient in re the current purge.
verisimilitude: I'd like to see a night of broken glass that isn't in the poor neighbourhoods, as with last year.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 0 to date in usa.
thimbronion: verisimilitude: remember when CNN had some glass broken?
verisimilitude: No, thimbronion.
thimbronion: verisimilitude: https://www.thedailybeast.com/furious-demonstrators-swarm-cnn-center-in-atlanta-during-protest-of-george-floyds-death
thimbronion: The furthest it's gone thus far is some protests around various mayors' residences, which of course are protected by the police.
thimbronion: However the spectacles will get bigger.
verisimilitude: They can't help but get bigger. Anything else is just going to be shut down, while the screeching about a free and fair system rises in volume.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: are you familiar w/ 'red guards' in 20th c. cn ?
asciilifeform: ~same item in usa currently.
thimbronion 's former Chinese teacher was a member of the Red Guard. Wouldn't talk about it.
billymg would like to hear more about this red guard, and how it relates to current us situation
asciilifeform: billymg: recurring pattern of 20th c. -- 1 way to organize a totalitarian shithole, is to have 'militant wing' to spread terror (and interest in 'order') + make otherwise unpalatable stuffed shirts 'look moderate' in contrast.
billymg: asciilifeform: re: no more carrot, only stick -- this just increases likelihood of violence and escape (and in large numbers). and as thimbronion said, violence is the more expensive way of having to shear the sheep. at some point cost of shearing sheep becomes greater than value of the wool
billymg: asciilifeform: 'militant wing' of empire being antifa in this case?
asciilifeform: billymg: 'antifa', 'blm', whole associated chorus.
billymg: right, and even any deputized karen in a grocery store yelling and pointing when she sees you without a mask
asciilifeform: billymg: and there'll be ~0 'escape', cuz where to. as for violence, that's the objective -- 'kick the dog till it bites, so then to shoot it'. arguably whole point of the current trollage, is to conjure up some 'right wing extremism'. clinton & co. worked for yrs to create mcveigh, for same purpose.
thimbronion: billymg: you can read about the Red Guard in the Black Book of Communism.
billymg: thimbronion: ty, will check it out
billymg: asciilifeform: yes, that much is obvious, and can easily shoot a handful of 'em
billymg: but if it's half the country walking up to pelosi's front door, not sure what they do then
asciilifeform: billymg: except, notice, it 'wakes up' not to pelosi's door, but to whine (into ceiling) about having been banned from reddit.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: do you think Stalin was murdered?
billymg: escape can also be in the sense of escape the fraud currency, into btc and barter systems, even if staying geographically in the zone
asciilifeform: thimbronion: defo. and in fact exactly as he himself proclaimed (derided as 'doctors plot')
thimbronion: asciilifeform: after which wasn't there some moderation? Less gulags, not more?
asciilifeform: billymg: the very limited 'escape' of refusing to play in various chumpatrons (the ones that remain voluntary, for nao). but this is imho abuse of the word.
billymg not sure if typo or misread on alf's part but wrote 'walking up' not 'waking up'
billymg: but i see your point, and it's definitely true, but there's always a tipping point, no? i mean i know we're in uncharted territory historically, with internet-of-shit tracking devices at 3 per citizen, but still
asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'moderation' in the sense of moving prisoners from 'little zone' back into 'big zone'. in other respects, tightening of screws (under stalin, interestingly, laws against private merchants & artisans were not enforced; hrusch & co -- enforced.)
asciilifeform: billymg: this 'tipping point', where somehow bonsai kittens grow legs and turn into mojahedeen -- is imaginary.
billymg: asciilifeform: why abuse of the word? if one can actually stop playing in their chumpatrons, and live out the rest of their life that way, it seems like that is escape. and robs them of some amount of value
billymg: and little by little more will start to do just that
asciilifeform: billymg: in many ways 'stop playing' is a very expensive luxury. asciilifeform , for instance, pays 3-4x moar than mortgage payers for erry m^2 of housing space.
asciilifeform: and gets 0 tax breaks on anyffin.
thimbronion: We are still in a situation where people are creating caravans to get into the prison, which I actually like. Less nicos and venezuelans mucking up CR.
billymg: asciilifeform: re: bonsai kitten, this is something i've thought about with regards to the younger generation. millenials and boomers, fully bonsai kittened -- zoomers are so disenfranchised from the earliest moments of their adolescent lives that some might instinctively sidestep bonsai bottle before getting inside
billymg: asciilifeform: expensive in US cities, sure, but now with covid you can move to rural parts of the middle of the country -- live much cheaper, collect same salary, still avoid orcs
asciilifeform: billymg: several tricky aspects to this -- asciilifeform for instance actually needs Gb/s fiber to keep the dough rolling. and, orthogonally, doesn't eat 'food depot'.
billymg: i grew up with naive view that "america is a free country and if you work hard blah blah blah", when i meet younger kids none of them seem to share this delusion
thimbronion: Speaking of orcs - an orc Amazon delivery guy knocked on my door and asked "This ain't no Orc neigborhood is it? Is it safe to leave my van door open?"
asciilifeform: billymg: if there's some kinda down-tick in bonsaikittenification -- i aint aware of it. afaik the younger folx grow up from cradle w/ 'get angry on reddit, not with fists' etc.
billymg: asciilifeform: for food, the stuff cooked by women at home much better than what you get at most "restaurants" anyway. not sure about the Gb fiber part, i hear it's making it's way to rural US too
asciilifeform: billymg: i havent, admittedly, explored 100% of continent, but in erry 'cheap zone' i've been in -- a) not so much cheaper, houses are still at min. 6 digits $ b) ingredients for 'at home' are either from yer own garden (if you can get anyffin to grow w/out monsanto) or from 'food depot' petrosynthetics.
billymg: asciilifeform: if there's 18 year olds out there now cutting their teeth with this GME shit the smart ones won't stick around to bother playing a second round, and being 18 they got the time and energy to (potentially) accomplish a lot outside the chumpatron
asciilifeform: billymg: i've yet to witness this wonder, where homo redditus 'accomplishes outside'
asciilifeform: maybe my telescope is pointing in wrong direction, or wat. not seen any of this.
billymg: asciilifeform: once upon a time long ago i opened reddit for "news" and entertainment, not everyone who visits reddit makes it their final stop
asciilifeform: billymg: at one time i also
asciilifeform: was imho notbad forum re commonlispisms '07-09 or so
billymg: thimbronion: lulz
asciilifeform: a well-crafted chumpatron, btw, wins even (and especially) when mass of idiots 'struggles against' it
billymg: asciilifeform: makes sense, i'm not yet convinced this one is well enough crafted
asciilifeform: primo example: idjits buying up paper btc.
billymg: also there's only one way to find out
thimbronion: Maybe stupid question to ponder, but - would Rome have collapsed if Bitcoin had been invented in 350 AD in Rome?
asciilifeform: lol, wainot also 'what if deathray had been invented in 350ad'
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-28#1030426 Now I'm recalling a Common Lisp discussion which started roughly as ``Is having seventy dependencies bad?'' and the one person pointing out how awful this was had been ``downvoted''.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 13:35:54 asciilifeform: was imho notbad forum re commonlispisms '07-09 or so
thimbronion: asciilifeform: West went from steam engine to Bitcoin in 200 years.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: in all srsness tho -- they did have au. and funnily enuff, archaeologists today still regularly turn up late-roman 'hodls' from the earth
verisimilitude: Does bitcoin truly belong in that progression?
asciilifeform: they did not help their orig. owners..
verisimilitude: What's a ``hodls''?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: in its role as 'hodl machine', roughly analogous to au.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: counter-inflation device
verisimilitude: The ideal in a society should be no such thing as money.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: just about errybody seems to invent money or something near, in or around bronze civ stage.
billymg: verisimilitude: how do you propose distribution of resources in that society?
billymg: handling* distribution of resources
verisimilitude: Well, in mine ideal society, there's a god which decides that, and no one may disagree with it by definition, because it's more powerful than everyone else.
verisimilitude: What a shame, that there be no true gods to rule us.
billymg: ah, in that sense of ideal
verisimilitude: I can be more realistic, as well.
verisimilitude: I've considered turning this into an article.
billymg: i would be curious to read actually
verisimilitude: I've seen people mock the idea of ``labour tokens''.
verisimilitude: ``Look at those foolish people, reinventing money.''
verisimilitude: Such tokens aren't money, however.
verisimilitude: Money has more functions than such tokens. To get a better society, simply remove the bad functions.
billymg: what are the bad functions? (assuming good money)
verisimilitude: By ``functions'', I mean operations.
verisimilitude: Exchange of token for food and whatnot is a good function.
verisimilitude: Exchange of token now for tokens later is a bad function.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that in our civ. money not 100% 'invented' quite yet. i.e. it exists, and is in fact used to make so that 1 pleeb can't buy up 100% of the pablum supply. but in other cases if e.g. you or i find a cubic metre of au, it'll be simply taken, you won't become rockefeller from finding it.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-12-17 18:29:20 asciilifeform: billymg: i disagree that it's a numeric problem, even necessarily. say, martians land, and leave you 25 tonnes of refined pu as a parting gift. you will 'pass into elite' ? or perhaps not ? what do you suppose would happen ?
asciilifeform: the common idjit belief of 'money == power' is quite untrue; and planet where it holds would look rather interestingly different from this 1.
verisimilitude: Money does equal power, to a degree, but the cabal of elites don't need money, so much as blood.
thimbronion: It's more like power = money.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: dun recall whether yer in usa, but do you know what happens in usa if police/fire inspector/whatever stuffed shirt finds a bag w/ 100k $ in yer car/flat/boat/etc ?
verisimilitude: I disagree. McVeigh mentioned earlier didn't get money from power.
verisimilitude: I unfortunately live in the US, and in this free country under god it gets taken, yes.
asciilifeform: aha, taken, and yer lucky if get away w/ own skin, rather than held in the clink until they think of what to charge with
billymg: verisimilitude: what about exchange of tokens now for labor that results in value created (for the purchaser) greater than that of the tokens originally spent for the labor? -- would this be a bad function or a good function?
verisimilitude: That's a fuzzy idea, billymg.
verisimilitude: An ideal society has no need for one man to be able to ``invest'' so.
verisimilitude: The idea of ``I pay you tokens so I may own shopping mall expected to make me this much.'' doesn't exist.
verisimilitude: In mine ideal society, anyone who dares try to bring back money should be killed.
asciilifeform: vintage mp thread re 'for what is money'.
snsabot: (trilema) 2014-04-06 mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of money see ? money-%, like btc. that's the money used by the people who allocate resources.
verisimilitude: Of course, monitoring things and killing people works better with a god to do it.
asciilifeform: ( in practice, rather than 'in ideal'. it's used for 2 rather dissimilar things. )
verisimilitude: I hold the idea that creature X can't reasonably rule over species X.
verisimilitude: That requires a creature Y.
billymg: verisimilitude: i mean rather, i hire baker to bake bread for me, or builder to build house for me. the baker and builder are happy to exchange their labor for my tokens. i'm able to turn around and sell the product of their labor for more than i originally paid
verisimilitude: A man can rule over every other animal with impunity, but not nearly so easily other men.
billymg: verisimilitude: or do you mean that these labor tokens are regulated in such a way that no man ever has enough surplus tokens to make those kinds of investments
verisimilitude: This would require a centralized authority to distribute things, billymg.
billymg: if he's buying bread or a house it's for him to eat or live in
verisimilitude: Yes.
verisimilitude: I suppose the way it should work is a man trying to do that would be punished.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: by whom ?
verisimilitude: Well we go back to god.
verisimilitude: It's clear to me men can't rule over other men with any stability, but an omnipotent god would be so nice.
asciilifeform: vehehery busy god
billymg: verisimilitude: heh, yeah, i still don't see how we've moved past the 'god' ideal
verisimilitude: Imagine how wonderful society would be, if a god could kill all of us in an instant.
asciilifeform: ( oblig. reading -- b. & a. strugatsky's 'hard to be a god' ! )
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's sorta about this. i rec to find a copy in some lang that you know
billymg: asciilifeform: ai-luxury-space-communism i believe is the pipe dream of the socialists these days
billymg: ai filling in for the god
billymg: i forgot the word 'automated' in there somewhere too
asciilifeform: billymg: these folx oughta read some late-sovok depressive fiction
asciilifeform: e.g. above
billymg: asciilifeform: they oughta have their welfare cut off if you ask me
verisimilitude: Are the socialists here the rich who keep being bailed out, or the poor who want to be?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: even hobo begging on street, arguably 'welfare recipient', i.e. from where come the coins the passers-by drop in his pan ?
billymg: verisimilitude: in this case the poor who want to be
verisimilitude: So, ``Welfare for me, but not for thee.'' I see.
asciilifeform: i dun think i've met 'clean' people (i.e. who would remain wholly unaffected if 'welfare cut', even indirectly)
asciilifeform: even mp, i suspect at some pt would run outta ammo
billymg: and it's the Yang brand of socialist who's selling them the "automated luxury space communism" idea. paid for by tax on bezos!!
verisimilitude: I don't see the issue in people wanting this.
asciilifeform: billymg: imho they are being sold whatever the 'market research focus groups' decided they are demanding to 'buy'. the objective aint 'keep'em from uprising', bonsaikittens don't uprise.
asciilifeform: today this flavour, tomorrow some other.
billymg: verisimilitude: don't follow, i'm equally against welfare in the form of bailouts for banks fwiw
billymg: asciilifeform: sounds about right
verisimilitude: Well, when group X gets Z and group Y wants Z, I'm not going to blaim group Y.
verisimilitude: That is, unless I want to, anyway.
verisimilitude: I immediately thought of this where Z was ``other group's women'', and realized the folly.
billymg: verisimilitude: doesn't this put us exactly back at current 'strongest cabal gets the goods'. if group Y is stronger they get Z, if not, X holds onto it
verisimilitude: I suppose it does.
verisimilitude: What healthy man doesn't imagine his in-group viciously murdering his out-group and taking its things?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: sometimes is fashionable to instead imagine that yer ingroup is ~being~ murdered an' robbed (while exact opposite is taking place)
billymg: asciilifeform: perfect description of current situation in the west
verisimilitude: I can think of other groups who enjoy kvetching about persecution, billymg.
billymg: verisimilitude: i won't disagree with you there, and in fact i thought of them when reading alf's statement. though having lived in nyc for as long as i did and with some of my best friends being jewish i'd like to point out that not every jew == 'da jooz'
verisimilitude: I didn't mention Jews, but this conversation makes me think of a saying I'd thought of and have been saving since.
verisimilitude: ``It's easy to hate groups, and much harder to hate individuals.''
billymg: verisimilitude: 'kvetching' was what led me to believe that's who you were referencing
verisimilitude: Well, any subtle alternative meanings in what I write are entirely unintentional, except when they're not.
billymg: verisimilitude: in any case, it could also be argued it's a matter of "hate the game, don't hate the player". if any group is successful in their kvetching in order to get more gibs then hate the idiot populace that buys it
verisimilitude: That saying was probably coined by someone who made the game he was currently winning.
verisimilitude: As asciilifeform has pointed out, it's not much of a game when it's hardly optional.
verisimilitude: Say, care to switch to a programming topic, billymg?
billymg: verisimilitude: sure, though keep in mind i'm just a webshit programmer
verisimilitude: I may find myself writing some JavaScript soon.
verisimilitude: I want to create a very tiny forum to demonstrate mine Elision concept, and specialized clients are part of this. I figure providing an Emacs and a WWW client would suffice.
asciilifeform: revisiting this momentarily -- there's a school of thought that 'creature Y' ~exists~. go by various names, 'lizardmen', 'snakemen', etc. chromosomally, human; phenotypically -- 'defector'
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 14:08:26 verisimilitude: That requires a creature Y.
billymg: verisimilitude: if i may ask, do you work in some type of US tech company (of the "silicon valley" variety even if not in california)
billymg: i guess could be in UK or anywhere else for that matter
verisimilitude: Clearly, the lizard people should be killed, asciilifeform. Deicide occurs, but it's much harder.
billymg: but one in the business of building widgets for idjits
verisimilitude: No, billymg.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: the weapon to kill'em hasn't yet been invented. in erry effort to date, they've successfully masqueraded among humans and redirected the killing harmlessly, to self, away to others.
billymg: verisimilitude: ah. some other industry, or just self-financing? i don't mean to be rude, just usually curious to know how one earns their bread when i meet them
verisimilitude: I don't mind sharing some details, but that's private, billymg.
billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, even just a vague idea would engender some trust i think. most everyone else who's stuck around here for a while hasn't kept it a mega seekrit. i do understand the desire not to self-dox though
asciilifeform assumed, from past thrds, that verisimilitude , like many folx, found a spot where the moneypipe drips a little. and logically not in a hurry to say where, lest the plumbers come & fix
verisimilitude: I'm not on the USG payroll, don't worry.
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, interesting. drips without even butt in seat??
asciilifeform: billymg: recall how in e.g. nigeria there are villages which live by finding/making little holes in petro pipeline, showin' up w/ buckets, resell
asciilifeform: usa is quite like this, but 'paperized'
asciilifeform: e.g. terry davis (rip) had an invalid's pension. not large, but enuff not to sit in cube hell.
asciilifeform: 'little' folx chew little holes, 'big' -- big holes.
asciilifeform: but in either case fundamentally same process, i.e. the baking of the cake is a quite separate process, by wholly separate folx, from the eating.
asciilifeform: whatever a e.g. mp getting 1e6/mo from dividends while sitting on arse, imagines about his 'nobility' or 'useful input re resource allocations', while welfare eater gets 1e3/mo from welfare office, factually both exactly same thing. difference only in scale.
billymg: verisimilitude: link to description of your Elision concept?
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-06-06
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/2020-06-18
verisimilitude: I need to rewrite the former again.
verisimilitude: I link to the latter because it explains the auxiliary dictionary concept in more detail.
verisimilitude: In fact, give me a few hours, and I'll start rewriting the former now.
verisimilitude: All of my best articles have been rewritten at least thrice, if not quatrice.
verisimilitude: Well, written, not rewritten.
billymg: verisimilitude: you seem to allude to the value this adds in your first article with "The mathematician can truly create notation that suits the context. The programmer cannot." could you explain more behind the "why" of creating native word-based rather than character-based text storage?
verisimilitude: Why am I seeking this goal?
billymg: you demonstrate there would be some space savings, but i've never found text storage size to be an issue really
billymg: yeah
verisimilitude: I find it deeply important.
verisimilitude: It's an insidious optimization, and I want to use some of my limited time attacking it.
verisimilitude: I built mine MMC because I recognized assemblers were terrible, and wanted to show others a better way.
verisimilitude: People think character streams are ``natural'', and I want to prove they're not.
verisimilitude: I've not mentioned it here yet, but when I looked at systolic arrays recently, I saw how mine Elision could be used as the base level of text in a machine which is dedicated to the purpose.
verisimilitude: The Boyer-Moore algorithm is useless for Elision, as it should be. Elision processing can be made trivially parallel.
verisimilitude: I'm looking at creating something fundamentally better, with just a little thinking, billymg.
billymg: verisimilitude: i'm afraid a lot of this is over my head. i'm sure i can help with some js or ux related questions when you get to that stage. and perhaps visualizing the client experience will help me better understand the benefit of the underlying system
billymg: at the moment i don't grok much beyond that it could be a performance optimization, and perhaps give way to some new (better) programming languages
verisimilitude: Imagine APL, but everyone gets to create symbols, and there's no character grid. This is what I want to turn a higher-level language into.
verisimilitude: I've so many wonderful ideas for it.
billymg: verisimilitude: couldn't you create a proof of concept of the language you envision on top of existing text encoding schemes? and then if it compiles down to machine code anyway i don't see why a new text encoding scheme is needed
billymg: at this point i'm really just feeling around in the dark though
billymg: for instance have read one of asciilifeform's articles discussing the dismal state of CPU instruction sets and how these seem to be optimized for obfuscation and diddling rather than human operation, and perhaps this relates somewhat, but definitely over my head
verisimilitude: Could I reasonably demonstrate an REPL on a system which only accepts batch processing?
verisimilitude: Oh, this higher language isn't Elision, but something else.
billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, i meant your APL-like example
verisimilitude: Sure, it's reducible, in the same way this conversation is reducible to atoms.
dpb: asciilifeform, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KfBu
asciilifeform: dpb: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mlHZ
asciilifeform lulz re the redditus maxing out redd^H^H^Hcredit cards to buy GME. expect 2014-style whining, suicides, etc. when party's over. chrematism is sumthing like heroin.
trinque: asciilifeform: ben points out to me via other channels that this is most likely a particular firm orchestrating short squeezes with redditards as amplifers
asciilifeform: trinque: was thinking earlier along these lines. tho will admit, still finding it difficult to picture redditus as adding up to any useful amplification.
trinque: asciilifeform: looks like 5.5mil derps on that reddit board, times stimulus check

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