asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 11 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.097s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635955
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.226s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.228s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.364s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
shinohai: 'tis impossible to convince torfags they aren't safe.
asciilifeform: shinohai: imho the underlying disease is 'anonfag'
asciilifeform: the lulziest dissonance is when you ask'em 'so, for what great deeds is yer stack of 17 vpn cum tor' usually silence. 'but wainot admit, yer anon or no ?'
shinohai: I thought it pretty lulzy he mentioned "imageboards" as great hangout.
asciilifeform: you can laff at e.g. boko haram soldiers and their 'invincibility amulets', but ~their~ amulets 'work', i.e. they have courage. but 'anonfag' has amulet but somehow no courage..
superkuh: Yeah, using a domain you lease on whim from an entity that can revoke it at any time is so much more secure.
superkuh: Silly onions.
superkuh: Who wants to control their own domain?
asciilifeform: superkuh: dnsism is certainly even moar egregious scam (even costs $)
thimbronion: slatestarcodex blog deleted: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/anonymous-psychiatrist-deletes-rationalist-blog-after-ny-times-threatens-doxing
thimbronion: I suppose the hundred flowers campaign is coming to and end.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: fella was an obnoxious establishment tool, and imho even now 'made own bed' :
asciilifeform: 'Last week I talked to a New York Times technology reporter who was planning to write a story on Slate Star Codex. He told me it would be a mostly positive piece about how we were an interesting gathering place for people in tech, and how we were ahead of the curve on some aspects of the coronavirus situation. It probably would have been a very nice article.'
thimbronion: lol can't read because of some sort of cached nonsense from when archive.is was failing during my last crawl.
asciilifeform: aha, it loads maybe 1 in 3 times here
asciilifeform despised 'slatestar', saw him as suspiciously timely 'replacement' for the disappeared 'last psychiatrist', and artfully 'tame opposition'. who, on top of this, surrounded himself w/ obnoxious turds who escaped from the 'rationalist' cult when the latter imploded
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I couldn't make it through a single article
asciilifeform: 'rezistenţa prin cultură' fuckwit. i hope they break him on the wheel at time square.
asciilifeform: as if even small children dun know that one talks to reporter only w/ lawyer present, and, if force to speak, only must give name/rank/serial#...
asciilifeform: 'errything you say will be used against you...'
verisimilitude: Is it agreed upon here that Tor can be useful against a non-governmental actor?
verisimilitude: I quite like anonymous imageboards and like forums, but I understand they're not for everyone. If real work is done, identities certainly begin to rise out of the anonymous quagmire.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: depends what means 'useful'. it was once great for spam, for instance, until folx realized that you can download the exit noad list and throw it straight into iptables ban list
verisimilitude: It's useful if the average joe can't connect messages, say; this usually requires voluntarily accepting Tor posting.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: at one pt as part of asciilifeform's official duties, he collected virii. sometimes $turd would be set up so as to only load from $country's ip blocks. in these cases used tor + perlscript
verisimilitude: I agree the ``development model'' of accruing garbage onto garbage, where the history is a list of tweaks, is poor. Further, it encourages an idiotic ``debugging'' model for those too stupid to use real debuggers, ``Oh, it didn't work, well then just revert the change. It's not like the flaw was latent.''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: why do you think that 'avg joe' can't set up exit nodes and log traffic ? say yer budget is 500 $ / mo. you can get coupla Gb/s connection. it'll catch maybe 1% of traffic. statistically, in month or 2, you'll get the victim you intended (if in fact intended specific one), and at any rate 'over 9000' login/pw pairs and whatever oh-so-'private' traffic from lamers in there
asciilifeform: for extra bonus, strip off any sslism present -- roughly 1 in 3 idiots dun notice
asciilifeform: infect winblows .exe's en route. no shortage of possibilities.
verisimilitude: I'm doubtful of these claims, firstly, and the average joe couldn't and wouldn't.
asciilifeform: best cure for doubt is to try w/ own hands.
verisimilitude: Part of my point is if the traffic isn't ``life or death'', then it doesn't matter to start with; it certainly does work on the average joe.
asciilifeform: ( observe that none of the above even requires knowledge of whatever 'heartbleeds' present in the garbage coad )
verisimilitude: Were I to be plotting some illegal activity, I certainly wouldn't rely solely on Tor; that would be stupid.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if 'doesn't matter to start with' then why the hell put it through a snail's pace chain of proxies ??
verisimilitude: It prevents lesser surveillance is why.
verisimilitude: The ISP is unaware, the visited domains are, etc.
verisimilitude: I do very little browsing where I'm ``logged in''.
asciilifeform: 9000 bozos w/ logging exit nodes instead aware. so i dun see how and what 'prevents'.
verisimilitude: What's the opinion on I2P, then?
asciilifeform personally doubts that there is 1 single exit noad that doesn't tcpdump. ( and, on top of which, there isn't a usg dumper upstream -- the list is after all public )
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have not used i2p and have no opinion
asciilifeform: tor -- used, dissected, abused.
verisimilitude: Well, I'm not doing anything illegal, and it prevents normal people from being able to trace back to me, so it's at least fine for this.
verisimilitude: There's nothing really to discuss, I suppose; I can't claim to have read and validated Tor, nor most of the software I use, but I'm still doubtful about these claims.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i dun expect you to take my word for it. the nice thing re softs is that you can do own experiment inexpensively.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: outta curiosity, what do you expect 'normal people' to do supposing they were to 'trace back to you' ? shit in yer postbox ?
verisimilitude: That's a good question; I've given it thought and, there's naught to do with the information anyway, really.
asciilifeform: at least in e.g. the case of the prev. tor fella he was ashamed of being from nigeria. had ~some~ logic.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-02-12 23:18:09 curiousd0g: it's nigeria
verisimilitude: None of us are basing every one of our actions on logic, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: no one asked 'base all on logic!'. but occasionally why not think about what yer doing and why..
asciilifeform: in ru there is traditional joke where 'have you heard of famous cowboy, Uncatchable Joe? no one's caught him yet...' 'because no one ever wanted to'
verisimilitude: I feel I've suitably explained my position; I'm not trying to change any opinions on it, really; I'm more simply not avoiding the topic.
verisimilitude: That's a good joke.
asciilifeform: folx who fixate on 'anonism' are wanking on 'mania of grandeur' imho
verisimilitude: I won't deny entertaining delusions.
verisimilitude: I'd prefer to segue into the other topics, but I suppose there's nothing really to discuss with those, either.
verisimilitude: The reimplementation of my machine code development tool is going well; I may have my article detailing its release soon.
verisimilitude: It's the culmination of a decent amount of work, and it will be pleasant to have my ideas not only in a working program, as I've already this, but in a structured manner suitable for translation to yet greater structure. I may find myself writing another targeting soon after finishing this one.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: neato, will read
asciilifeform still doesn't have a terminal that'll display apl glyphs, so hopefully not in apl..
verisimilitude: I considered at least trying to write this in APL, years back, but APL lacks a character input primitive, which is necessary for this program, and I decided not to work around it and use a language already having such.
adlai: I am quite certain that the author of the slatestarcodex actually explained in one of his early articles what trivial manipulation on his real name he used, and it was not difficult to find a likely suspect; naturally, this may have been deliberate disinformation.
asciilifeform: adlai: d00d also apparently lives in a commune, w/ 2 dozen other cultists, who knew who he was
asciilifeform: not exactly master spy opsec.
adlai: asciilifeform: wrt:poetry, specifically english verse: I've been wondering whether you experienced the same nausea from that old invincible, Dr. Seuss
asciilifeform: adlai: the one where 'i would not could not, in a boat, i would not, could not, with a goat...' ?
adlai: none other!
asciilifeform: some of him even ended up in ru translation
verisimilitude: While I intend to eventually tie my work to my true identity, the present never seems a good time, even years back. Now the roving bands of retards are even worse.
adlai originally encountered Dr. Seuss in Hebrew translation
asciilifeform: adlai: doesn't surprise me
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: what do you expect the 'roving bands' to do to you ?
asciilifeform: other than insult
adlai: asciilifeform: although Green Eggs and Ham (the source of your quote) I only read in the original
verisimilitude: Well, as time passes, the thought of people having their homes set ablaze by the cretins seems increasingly closer.
asciilifeform: adlai: pretty sure he's in erry single 'learn englisch' text on planet3
verisimilitude: It's just a thought; there's little good in opening oneself to danger without commensurate reason.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: notice that they dun check 'but what's in his www?' before burning
adlai: there is something quite bizarre about the use of nursery rhymes to teach adults a foreign language; sure, the nursery rhymes are pernicious earworms, but so are advertising jingles and pop muzak
asciilifeform: adlai: afaik it's only done for english -- the english ~stopped writing poetry, other than for children, 100+y ago. and poem remains hands-down handiest way to teach pronunciation.
verisimilitude: That seems unduly critical of English.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: can't speak for erryone, but e.g. asciilifeform was taught w/ 'the mouse ran up the clock...' by tutor w/ ~flawless 'bbc' voice. and then had to spend yrs relearning in usa..
verisimilitude: I bemoan ebonics and similar attacks on the language, but that's a problem that probably must be solved with violence.
asciilifeform: such problem always eventually solved. (if not necessarily in the direction you'd like, lol)
adlai: ebonics is no more an attack on the english language, than speciation an attack on the genus
verisimilitude: Oh, I agree that too many Americans hardly speak English.
verisimilitude: Well, that's easy for an Israeli to claim, adlai.
verisimilitude: The US unfortunately doesn't carry out many of the same social policies as Israel does.
verisimilitude: Hebrew is also a language where many words have hundreds of ``spellings'', again making this less of an issue.
adlai: fwiw, I've visited the states several times, occasionally for months consecutively, during the first two decades of my life
asciilifeform was doing some hebrew, found quite frustrating the abundance of silent letters and englishesque permutations
verisimilitude: In any case, languages do have a right and thus a wrong way to go about things.
verisimilitude: There's a difference between a poet evolving a language and a negro ``enriching'' it.
adlai: modern hebrew is quite a mess, yes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i suspect ~all of modern-day usa would sound 'ebonic' to e.g. kipling.
adlai: remember, though, english itself arose from a patois between french and german
asciilifeform: if interested in what english might've sounded like w/out the french conquest -- try iceland
verisimilitude: There's a difference between how tolerable invaders and conquerors are. Some bring medicine and science, and others practice cannibalism and win by numbers.
verisimilitude: It's a horrifying thought, to imagine I'll die with the world only slowly growing worse in my eyes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: barbarians dun conquer in the usual sense -- they finish off half-dead civilizations
asciilifeform: a la hyena
adlai: the point and purpose of my speciation metaphor is that searchig for agency in an ongoing evolutionary process is not necessarily incorrect, although liable to flood you with false positives
asciilifeform: 'why are flies eating me' 'cuz yer a corpse'
verisimilitude: This is a depressing topic to reflect upon.
adlai: recently I've begun reading Milton's "Paradise Lost", thus my revisiting of this topic
verisimilitude: Anyway, my ideas on language are reflected in my eyes of how machines should store and manipulate text, which are on my website here and here.
verisimilitude: I dislike using the same tool for writing and programming, dissatisfying both.
adlai hopes verisimilitude can find the present trends less depressing by reducing personal affinity to a specific modern dialect; e.g., think of your inner voice's grammar as just being some beetle exploring the indo-european canopy, rather than a nest anchored to one specific fork
verisimilitude: I really ``tone it down'' in this channel; this isn't near the full force of my opinion.
verisimilitude: Notice I don't use ``you'' in the second-person singular pronoun sense in this channel; I avoid it. This is because I dislike the ambiguity it causes.
adlai: incidentally, one of the most interesting conversations that I ever overheard was between two young israelis who were speaking modern hebrew with american ebonic inflection!
verisimilitude: If I can't express an idea to my satisfaction, I'll find a way to rephrase it. If I realize I've been speaking incorrectly, I'll change it rather than bemoan the language.
verisimilitude: A recent occurence was wondering about my uses of ``alternate'' and ``alternative'', with the underlying rules being vague to me. I realized neither of these are nouns, the noun form being ``alternation'', so I corrected this mistake in my articles.
adlai: IRC is actually one of the contexts where pronouns are usable without undue ambiguity.
verisimilitude: There was once a time where I allowed the venue to influence my writing style, but I'll merely write it resulted in an unpleasant result, so now I don't change my writing style based on the venue.
verisimilitude: It would be fine to not write in complete sentences, but I won't do that, either.
verisimilitude: Precision in language helps bring precision in ideas, and so precision in actions, and so on.
adlai: One "abuse of language" that seems about as old as history itself is using an adjective as a noun by eliding the noun modified
adlai: verisimilitude: do you consider this a complete sentence: "Therefore, the great impression that classical thermodynamics made upon me." ?
adlai has already found mutations in copies of the full quote! although none of the mutations changed the fact that "sentence just noun", if you will.
adlai: your adherence to precision is admirable, verisimilitude, and although I personally do not share your distress, I can understand its origin.
verisimilitude: As for the sentence, it doesn't seem to be to be complete, but if I'm wrong then there's nothing for me to disagree with.
adlai: it is not quite a complete sentence, and I suspect that the author intentionally broke cadence to emphasize the weight of that impression.
adlai: arguably, there is an elided "the existence of", after "Therefore,".
adlai wanders off to argue with himself over an unfinished sonnet for some girl who probably doesn't quite deserve one, although a promise is a promise, even when it reveals the promittor's hopeless stupidity.
verisimilitude: In any case, I don't yet anyway see particular value in a mechanism which attempts to force strict adherence to proper grammar; that doesn't mean it's unimportant, but merely so varied and irregular to a machine that it may not be worthwhile.
verisimilitude: There can be emphasis in using improper grammar, and poets or creators coin new words, which is why my ideas of machine text have as the second layer a mechanism to use such new words not recognized by an authority.
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/06/cuidacoche-at-center-of-police-brutality-case-arrested-for-robbery/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Cuidacoche At Center Of "Police Brutality" Case Arrested For Robbery