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(ossasepia) diana_coman will be back tomorrow
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you'll be fine, there's more rock under your foot than you imagine :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: so aim for an outline by tomorrow evening the latest, the actual writing Thurs/Fri, review Saturday and you're done
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: how about that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do me a favour and start not with archeology but with your own original goals and troubles and so on; you already know both the story and the ending there, so chart first the structure of how you're going to tell this and only *after that* and *at writing time* search for the needed references
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you'll likely end up spending until Thursday/Friday reading forever more and accumulating notes/whatevers since there's always more to read/grab/do/avoid-thinking-of-the-ugly-how-the-fuck-do-I-do-this
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: acutely missing from there is the perspective aka something to guide your structuring
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: welcome! and have fun.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I saw you added a comment but I didn't yet get time to read it, I'll get to it in a bit but ask me here if there's something you need for this week's tasks
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: heh, good idea
(ossasepia) diana_coman: are you all right to plan those now?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you still have the series of posts so I think that'll keep you quite busy for now
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: all right then, I think you had enough grilling and fair warning; I'll gladly take you on and I'll set you up on yh by the end of this week for sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not like there's any interdiction on speaking to them or anything; the question is more whether you still find what to actually talk with them (other than generic chitchat really) if in the same room and if you are sure you'd rather be here than there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: to ask it perhaps in a easier-to-answer way: what/how strong is still their current pull on you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: eh, you have quite some learning to do for evals; at any rate, I don't wish on you that you end up at some point in the middle before you got to figure out clearly with whom you'd stand if need be, that's really the cause of the question.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: because he is fully invested in that system, in a nutshell; it would be way too costly for him to "read trilema" in the way you mean it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there might be those (and esp young ones) that are still searching and so end up in all places, it's not about where one has been but simply about what one does in a given situation
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: the trouble is that people are what they are, each of them; just like there are no causes that can really transform a chicken into a hawk, there are also no causes that can possibly transform one from serial entrepreneur in fiat system to bitcoin independent mind
(ossasepia) diana_coman: aha, say he does.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and what, they are hm, fine, enough money, serial entrepreneurs, all that, no?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, how do you know they don't read it seriously or how do you even evaluate that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: so if tomorrow they magically agree with you to "aim for the elite", the business will work?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's not saying a lot either way; what do you think is/was the problem there anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: where are you as relationships with all the coinapult/similar former crowd?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: good old human networking, what else; good for you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I can see how that could happen; what's with the Junto, does this overlap with your training/clients?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it just means speak your mind clearly and openly when it's your turn.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: but as with all other things, context is important of course; ie "speak" doesn't mean "say anything anywhere to anyone"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ahahaha, trilema-articles have lots of keys.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: say something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (and in fact the whole world to lose for keeping silent)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, speak, there's nothing worth keeping that you might lose just for the speaking; quite the opposite
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and how does this coy/shy apply here?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, I had such a extremely healthy childhood that I can't quite comment there, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: aha, that's exactly what it looked like.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you keep mentioning in your posts the coyness /inner coyote; what is this really about?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well yes, can't know what you don't know, sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: or are you trying to beat yourself first before another one has the chance? lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: part of it is that you tend/try to read so much in advance as to what it-could-possibly-fully-be that you may end up anywhere really, kind of hard to tell upfront.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: those are made to measure so what's yours will be your size, no need to fit someone else's,lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'll end up making dorion-rule: thou shall *not* covet another man's thrashing!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: beating your stupidity out of you is fine and good but breaking your own arms in the process is not that great
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: funnily enough with you, if anything, I'd need to ask you to stop beating yourself *that* much black and blue, lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (sounds reference-style book so possibly not-bad; at any rate, it won't be difficult to get a list of refs for you from people who know more, surely)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: anyways, what/how do you think I can help you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as I was saying earlier, the Master in Management is MP really, I claim no real management title for myself.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I don't know what gaap is.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and with the reading of management stuff - did you already go through MP's public experience or what are you aiming for there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you mentioned some accounting course for which you didn't quite study though - did you still complete it or what's the status there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and it's out of them or something, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as usual, balance is rather more productive, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, I never heard of any actual related business but anyways, lol.z
(ossasepia) diana_coman: good and quite glad to hear it in clear.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and btw, what's, how was it called... "bitcoin embassy" in panama?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes, it might even work; honestly, I have no concrete idea re panama and otherwise just this rather iffy-smell of "where clueless moneyed wannabee so-called-bitcoiners congregate"; but you are the ones there and to the extent that you do find actual people to build up, there's nothing a priori wrong with it or anything of the sort
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ok; did you ever read hanbot's posts (as MPOE-PR) on bitcointalk? canonical ref
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you basically say that you have there a good market for that, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: why/where from this single focus on running an exchange basically? (it's not necessarily bad, just ...not the only thing)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: put that way, you need a 3rd person to do management, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: and how is it structured, are you two equal partners there or what? is it just you 2?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what exactly is this current business of yours?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you said somewhere (and can't find atm the ref but if you don't recall, I'll look for it) that you invested in the strong tech arm - that seemed to be however jacob so I'm a bit confused there
(ossasepia) diana_coman: #e at the moment is quite quiet; and at any rate, the talk there is more eulora-play than anything else otherwise.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you read the full log or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lol, ok; what was exactly this that you read enough ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: still, jacob had to pull/push for you to join; why or what was that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you have a ton of smarts basically
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, where would one find masters now really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and I thought you were the manager there!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: avoidance via trb, lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (good for you, there's absolutely no point to regrets)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: all right, so you pushed jacob first; and kept reading from the side; bought those fg and still not saying anything; then finally jacob said something, got via lobbes here and then?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, yes; listen, I'm not trying to find fault or assign blame; just to fully figure out where you are.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you see, that's the thing, when you say "my past" you forget that it includes not only coinapult and assorted similars but also all your own growth and following your own mind and finding your feet from what I gathered from those outlines
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (I noticed you wrote that in the outlines re your past but that's a bit silly really; we'll get back to it in a bit and clarify)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: glad to hear it :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (and yes, attempting here among other things to put together your picture from the other side)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so how did it go with tmsr/the logs: was it you or jacob finding them? was it you or jacob deciding it was important? then the trouble speaking up - what are/were your main hangups?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: fwiw with all of you referencing this guy + that shiff, I did go and try to read them but barfed rather quickly.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ah, I see.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: at their "reference" I mean
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (and myeah, I'm not surprised at all)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ugh; that's the other thing: how on earth did you stay there that long?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I rather expect it was them preferring to not "notice" the importance but nevermind
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, so it was along the lines "been there too"?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: yep, there is; voorhees attended a btc conference, yes
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but as in what, "there's that weird Romania country" or what? I can't quite imagine exactly what-other-than-mp would get mentioned at a bitcoin conf about Ro, lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, might be a different THE conference around those parts but go ahead.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: good, so start from there: from your outlines I gather you heard something related as early as 2013/2014; what was that and how/why did it click only in ...uhm, 2019.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that doesn't sound like you pulling both , lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: do walk me through that mud first: how did you two actually end up in #o ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: I'm here though on apparently rather rocky net connection all of a sudden (so if I vanish, you'll know UK is worse than Panama)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: in about 40 minutes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: does that make sense?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... sane estimates whether padded by experience or not.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: his estimate was that of a sane but inexperienced person expecting a sane environment; it's reasonable to expect to be able to install that in 1.5 hours, what, it shouldn't take a day, a week, a lifetime; your estimate was equally sane but tempered by your experience with computers - obviously more than 1.5hours but still something more or less manageable; nevertheless, the environment being rather insane, it didn't fit into any ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: indeed it never does.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: if you really must, you can perhaps look for proto-practices that could be traced as some sort of ancestors of V (as nothing quite appears entirely out of nowhere either) but I'm not all that sure that pays off or really helps you a lot there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... tool, those are not just equal parts.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you can say it the other way around ie the above V is not just an implementation : sure you can have your wot and a manual "V" and so on, yes; but the direction is always from having first the concepts to using them with whatever tools available, no inference holds the other way around precisely because concepts&knowledge are more than one-or-another mechanical ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: that doesn't hold, no; having gpg key is not at all having microscope; it's more like having lenses perhaps; and if you go that route, you can equally say neandarthalians ALSO had microscope (and secret societies and V, why not) because look, sand hence silica everywhere, hence lenses, hence microscope, hence etc)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: if you go with "could be" then they could be building v, sure; except they don't, and going with "could be" is really wishful thinking if not worse.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: as I previously said in #o, I'm all for xpollination with a qntra-writing course for sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I need to go for a bit, I'll be back in an hour or so.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: tbh I'd say that the previous field was basically so muddled up that it's not really sane or worth it to try and approach it in such a clean way - it's more likely only to muddle you up than anything else.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: and moreover, even if there is a sig, there is in fact no identity attached to it because no wot (and see how this expands your scope all of a sudden? because yes, everything is related, ofc); recall the github and "sig" or "verified" thing?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: and for completion, the application 2-steps process applies to you just the same as to any newcomer (if anything, due to do-nothing history, you start with a minus compared to them).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: note that there is also the diff re checking the sig on a binary package or a source package, at the very least; I'd say figure out (and possibly restrict as needed) your scope there well, as it can easily end up a huge scope to cover; not to say the exploration itself won't be useful to you, but be aware of what you're looking at in there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: note also that this sort of in-here-but-not-quite-in-here won't end up well; make up your mind and either commit properly or lurk in there in silence as I won't have you or anyone else talk over people who actually committed and are busy at work, wtf.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: go ahead.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: and moreover genesis is now a V term-of-art.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: myeah, you meant the first implementation as if *that* is meaningful there at all; go and write, ask for feedback, do some work first, it's not that hard.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: great to hear that! and I'll read it whenever it's ready
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: and pretty please, go and write your thesis on the topic on your own blog before confusing newcomers, will you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: v is not just an implementation, what the ever loving fuck!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: also, BingoBoingo , trinque, lobbes why won't you *ask* MP for a license for your castles? if anything, this was my only initial hesitation re adding the chans - it would make more sense to have them licensed, no?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: oh hey, not-bad; mind publishing a post re the what and how of that? I'd love to read it and I'd certainly point the logger + move the bot to it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I can understand why you might be looking for a neat description of previous state to help you structure & discuss but that doesn't mean you can just force-fit anything on some flimsy basis of similarity.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: saltmines schedule/packing is fine; re V post, I don't quite see what you aim at there; I suppose you could look at it as "software had no traceable/recoverable/verifiable history at all" but it's rather a stretch to say there was any sort of genesis as genesis/regenesis already implies some V concepts that simply did not exist.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ossabot got a maintenance reset to stop logging #pizarro and start logging #trinque ; since I was at it, I've added for now the tiny .ico pics too so no more broken icons; if only all the rest was as easy to un-break as this.
(trilema) diana_coman: time packs a lot of punch those days; march indeed.
(trilema) diana_coman: the list + timing makes sense to me; I'm still digesting but onth I'd say latest next week is better than letting it drag any longer; while there might be no rush, there is also no gain that I can see in waiting longer than that.
(trilema) diana_coman: most likely, yes.
(trilema) diana_coman: ugh; good to know at least but shouldn't the default status be open for comments?
(trilema) diana_coman: must be the lightness of nothing that weighs too much, yes.
(trilema) diana_coman: heavy reading.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: spyked: upb ofc (though upg too, that's the one in ploiesti)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007805 - spyked, for the life of me, I can't call those secretaries at upg "ladies" lolz; you really are too polite.
(trilema) diana_coman: possibly they expect it's scary enough if it's "telegram!!!"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: shinohai: lol; you interested or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that being said, if anyone in younghands wants to make a pic, speak up people, it's the place where you write too!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: yes, I changed the source but no, there is still no pic because no pic & bottom of the pile in terms of priority
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PeterL: I don't have any icons for either really so yes, there's no pic.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: "At least for one stage Robinson guessed 1.5h, I guessed 7, both ran way over" - ahahaha, this is good for the quotes collection. The sad part of it though being of course that both of you have in fact sane (and experience-revealing, hence the difference) estimates for what the whole thing should be; but there's not enough sane around for the estimates to work even when tempered by some experience.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: asciilifeform: you ARE fully capable of so much that it honestly hurts to see you *not* doing what you'd actually do great.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: re footnotes 1 and 2 - it's totally fine, no worries; and it does the job well too, we'll talk tomorrow evening.
(trilema) diana_coman: aha; and here appointment online but then queue anyway... outside the building too and a guy giving frantic directions, it was something.
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: not the criteria by itself anymore at the time he was born,no; it was some additional years
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no, he's not because neither parent is uk citizen
(trilema) diana_coman: if one is nostalgic about anything, they should go there
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no, in london but the romanian consulate is 200% a piece of romania indeed
(trilema) diana_coman: it's a romanian example of applying eu rules I suppose; I guess I'll have to write-it up as it's too surreal, only the old italian-embassy experience beats it.
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I went to make child's passport - also a sort of ..european experience!!
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: asciilifeform: that is not what happened though; I don't wish this to morph now into a discussion of that as it's too early to discuss anything but I do not agree with your statement above re mp's actions in this case at all.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: asciilifeform: thank you, I appreciate it.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: at this moment and before digesting properly the whole thing, I have *no idea* what to say or re next step or anything on this matter.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: asciilifeform: I still have to fully digest the whole thing but at any rate and fwiw, I'll certainly pay you for whatever amount of time my blog has been hosted in your rack.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: I just read the debacle, yes
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: what do you mean by logger ain't mp-powered?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in #asciilifeform
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: I'm in #
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-28#1948511 - oh hey, happy belated bday qntra! and congrats BingoBoingo on it!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: don't use stuff without as much as reading the manual or you'll end up writing reviews of your refrigerator's manual and publishing pics of its internals at most, what programming and such things.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: talking of snowballing messes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: read the fucking manual as many times as you need so you KNOW IT before you get your fingers in all sorts; and then go through your blog and comments and *everything* and fix so you use the correct selection format *everywhere*; keep track and write the report of this mess.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as jfw correctly points out, it's not even the right link nor the original link; and I'll add to that: it's not even a proper link at all, it's a monster you made out of mixing stuff you use like an idiot without even looking at it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: wtf is that link you gave in this comment ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: I literally just got at the comp, still catching up on logs and everything else; if it burns though, I'm listening.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-28#1948437 - oh boy; because he didn't read properly how the thing works, obviously; at any rate, he'll fix it, read the manual and stop doing the shit, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007819 - right you are; I generally run with js disable so didn't even notice; the mp-wp on yh is stripped down really and js stuff was discarded indeed (eg tinymce iirc);
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007818 - take the time to figure things out, because unless/until you do that, the rest of the motions by themselves won't help, no.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007809 - aham; why stop at 1 problem when you can snowball it into a whole mess, right? and admitting to it is one step but that's not going to do anything by itself for next time.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: spyked: it turned out indeed that asciilifeform's rss was broken there; no fault with feedbot for sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, work well then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: certainly; and for that matter similar reason as to Russian patronymics, obviously.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: traditionally nobody cared about surnames, it would always be literally, you are X of Y's (aka your father's ) and the usual question in villages goes exactly like that: whose are you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, Romanian surnames are anyway haphazard because they are rather recent; fwiw it's not the usual form (Popescu as in Mircea Popescu is one of the most common + more usual ending escu, yes)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's the Romanian/Russian form; the English equivalent would be Irene
(trilema) diana_coman: rise to plan or not, at least a draft to publish there, maybe it gets some feedback to make it rise slowly?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform: no, my question is: are *you* going to actively look for that someone to put in an order for such a thing or are you just waiting for them if/when they come?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform: the $ is fine, yes; the q is how/whether you actually plan *anything* to get new customers?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: btw what does the f in there stand for?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform: do I understand correctly that you do not plan to actively expand that operation? ie you are doing there contingency planning for the unfortunate case that you have too many customers to fit in the current rack rather than business plan to get customers, is that it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: "This document is doomed to be revised again. And probably yet again." - bwahahah; asciilifeform , I'll end up cribbing this for a set of quotes on younghands.club , lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: I'm at the end of a long and weird day so I might need another pass tomorrow (and that won't happen until evening anyway) so don't count on immediate feedback, sorry.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: get some sleep better; I'm reading.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: don't worry, I'll ask you questions until it's clear.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: ha!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but do finish first your post there, this can wait.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you'll have to explain to me tomorrow that pull because in the end between the two of you pulling/pushing one another, it's all as clear as mud who did what here.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ha, you know that's anyway even more your task as a manager than his, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh; sure you're sure, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the one part that hasn't been mentioned much around here yet but I start thinking might be relevant to you: it's important to prioritize and to do *that* well.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: you know, it's actually enjoyable reading your review?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: do you have your rss messed up somehow/
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: ah, so feedbot is actually down?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: and nobody can give you a fool-proof statement of task as it were.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you can however, pervert that into a purpose, sure; this is why I'm saying "one can say anything really"; it's possible to aim for whatever notion you may formulate as to "illuminated code" and so pursue that future-illumination, regardless of any causes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you don't swith the annotations, you switch the way you approach the task: the 2nd approach focuses on the existing code and its clarity and improves on that, it starts from "how can I make this clearer?"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: heh, one can say anything really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: thoughts are reactions themselves, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, aiming to find what goes on in people's minds is rather iffy anyway, not sure you can "find" with any certainty such a thing really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it might be that someone did some action with some purpose in mind, sure, but that still doesn't mean the action occured for that purpose; it still occured from some causes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: certainly; to start with, it can't possibly occur for a purpose anyway, how would that work
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: why not, it's your V :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: did you read the causes vs purposes canonical ref?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so do it then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so, would you be able to implement V now?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ah, no; it's fine, I just misread, sorry.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: btw, 3 seems even wrong actually.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: also note 9 is not-bad.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: but look that you have some good examples too in there e.g. note 11 goes in the right direction; possibly precisely because you were focusing on saying something there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: pretty much,yes; the paperclip guy is an animated version of nonsense-delivery including circular definitions and the like, so yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hmrc.gov.uk excels in such help too but I really don't want to look atm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the windows-style help I had in mind makes free use of circular definitions in a nutshell; eg "enter your 10-digit hwoegt code" "what is a 10-digit hwoegt code?" "that is your code that has 10 digits and is hwoegt"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the clear dividing line there is time really; ie you have to base your decision on past or present, never on the future (because you can't possibly know it)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: happy you! lol; ok, let me fabricate an example then, 1 sec
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: did you ever have the dubious pleasure of using windows help? (or similar)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so then that's your focus and measure at each step: does this annotation bring some more light on what this code does and how/why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sorry for the messed up grammar there, it's been a long and weird day here.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the thing is: the point of annotations are not to prove your understanding, no; the point of annotations are to illuminate that which is annotated, correct?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: not even that exactly, heh; remember causes vs purposes? what you say would be focusing on a purpose and as such, you can't quite deliver because... how exactly do you know what "the next person learning V" needs to have an easier time?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: yes, you are doing it because I ask it but there is a reason for which I asked for it and therefore there is a point to the task beyond demonstration of obeying the order, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: no, that's not really the problem; the issue starts from what you just said really: there always is a marked difference between saying/writing something to demonstrate your understanding vs saying/writing something to make a point/communicate some knowledge; and you need to take this step and move away from school-style to adult-style
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: even more to the point - why did you annotate the code there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: other than the proofread though - how useful do you think they'd be for someone new to V and/or to that code?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it depends on whether your rss announces immediately or not too; at any rate, I'll read in a bit.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: hm, it worked just a minute ago so possibly it just takes a bit of time?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: the "to direct" in http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-27#1007685 ? it's more general really; essentially when you get stuck and/or just go through the motion of a requested thing without (apparently) knowing what and why was the point requested.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: hm? I don't get what you are asking
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: understand that there is no possible way for me to direct you at such extremely basic level, it would be ~psychological equivalent of moving your limbs about like a puppet and for one thing I really don't think that's sane or helpful even if it were possible.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: so try to figure it out, like a puzzle if nothing else; take your time too but don't just remain stuck at "don't know"; it's part of your problem.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: this then doesn't fit as it is; why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: so what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: good; still: why use feedbot?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: just fix it, will you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: did you re-read those annotations of yours?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: this even strikes me as quite similar to your communication issue, it's almost as if you somehow interact/see the world quite flat/missing some dimensions entirely
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and you know, stop doing just the shape of things, there's a point to them and if you don't get the point, just doing the motions won't help any.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: ugh; listen: 1. use feedbot and subscribe to your own blog's comments at least so you actually see them more timely + you'll figure out why there's no need to ping 2. pics on blog have a medium size that fits your theme + linked to bigger size (IF that exists, you don't just enlarge a low res image ffs) ; mpwp even does that for you, dunno how you managed to mess it up there so badly.
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