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(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: the production server has been running before and it can run again as it is; the issue there is really the one concerning access to the code if we just put it ~anywhere.
(trilema) diana_coman takes a note to mirror spyked's sigs too
(trilema) diana_coman: I don't use that init command but at any rate, it's fine as far as I looked at it first pass
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: this is added on my tree, I didn't yet get to sign it
(trilema) diana_coman: I still had to dive into CS's "shaders" and so at least I know better what those are and how they come into play but that can be written up as it is and taken from there
(trilema) diana_coman: those two were most snagging from not-directly-eulora; the rest is mainly the complexity with the graphics & cs
(trilema) diana_coman: packaged and v-treed.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: quite.
(trilema) diana_coman: that seems to be referenced/found by people and hence used
(trilema) diana_coman: at any rate, my current understanding for S.MG is that it will proceed with what there is and as such the bulk of work stems mainly from the graphics & ironing out the smg comms + new client (plenty there to do but at least I know what I'm looking at)
(trilema) diana_coman: granted, this is relatively small snag for S.MG, not like eulora can't go on without it but it's annoying esp because of this "seems to have been done"
(trilema) diana_coman: now if someone has the proof I'm being an idiot on this, please step forwards and hit me with it, I'll be very glad.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not as far as I know; it was always *not done* but always popping up in people's memory as "working"; except every time I wanted to *move* a file rather than have it del/add, it turned out that ...no.
(trilema) diana_coman: tbh this particular bit with the keys was/is the *main* itchy thing because it feels ridiculous really; I'm doing "encryption" there every which way and then the keys are plain text; but wtf.
(trilema) diana_coman: not atm though it does ring a bell.
(trilema) diana_coman: all right; so at any rate, not an issue for S.MG, it will proceed with how things stand and that's that.
(trilema) diana_coman: there is that sadness too
(trilema) diana_coman: my thought was that if *that* was done, the above bootstrapping thing would have ended up getting more attention and thus possibly moving on as well; but this is why I said possibly outside S.MG scope
(trilema) diana_coman: tbh (and possibly outside S.MG's direct scope) I don't get exactly why don't we have already a command line replacement to gpg, ugh
(trilema) diana_coman: ie why use the client key if anyway there too, not much to it
(trilema) diana_coman: it can but the client key itself ?
(trilema) diana_coman: so stored in plain text and that's that, correct?
(trilema) diana_coman: the draft is all there is as far as I know
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: we have eucrypt that generates the rsa keys and serpent and all that client and server need; we however do not have (and it was supposedly in discussion/waiting/etc) a clear way to store them securely; let me dig log ref
(trilema) diana_coman: the moving files in V
(trilema) diana_coman: the bootstraping rsa keys
(trilema) diana_coman: other than the os since that is at least decided for now, there would be:
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: it might be useful to go through the list of things perhaps
(trilema) diana_coman: how would that work?
(trilema) diana_coman: proto-cuntoo is text only and frozen
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: would the demo client be text-only then or what?
(trilema) diana_coman: then on the list it goes, all right.
(trilema) diana_coman: at least not currently.
(trilema) diana_coman: but no real need to spend time on looking at moving cs, is there?
(trilema) diana_coman: I will however look into how long it would take to ditch cs on dev server
(trilema) diana_coman: anyways, so proto-cuntoo for server side and there's no futzing needed there
(trilema) diana_coman: yes; /me read through s.nsa historical reports so got enough of that for today.
(trilema) diana_coman: nobody would dictate them anything for sure.
(trilema) diana_coman: if only people would start running their own clients!
(trilema) diana_coman: plenty of those already
(trilema) diana_coman: all right; I'm all for *not* taking on yet another pile of wtf
(trilema) diana_coman: so in this sense there's currently little reason to sink time into porting cs
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I see; I suppose the thing is that cuntoo is currently a server-side system really (no X)
(trilema) diana_coman: cs is the same btw, there is no client-cs and server-cs
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: there is that, indeed.
(trilema) diana_coman writing those 2 down
(trilema) diana_coman: there would be perhaps some bits like movement calculation but there is no possible reason I can see for that to pull in the whole cs or something ffs; ie it can be done separately, why wouldn't it.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I would say it's a most improper dependency really
(trilema) diana_coman: and otherwise there is no point to using cs on server as far as I can see; wtf does the server need a graphics engine
(trilema) diana_coman: dev server I was gradually extracting CS out of it but I'm not done
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: production server "uses" cs because it's intertwined with it (uses data types and the like)
(trilema) diana_coman: to answer your q as stated: I can move it but it will take a lot of effort and time (atm I don't have a clear estimate for it but I doubt it's less than a month given all deps)
(trilema) diana_coman: if we might squeeze without, it's a whole lot of effort&time not poured in there
(trilema) diana_coman: if we need to move it anyway, we need to move it and so ...
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: are we fine with cs as-is on client side? there are 2 aspects there: 1. dynamically linked 2. the dependency on jam/ftjam and all that
(trilema) diana_coman: on the plus side, we have something that works so there's no beating that
(trilema) diana_coman: maintaining the frozen dulap-gentoo recipe + all and deploying that + still having afterwards to make the switch to cuntoo when it's ready
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: my main question here would be whether it's worth this intermediate proto-cuntoo step
(trilema) diana_coman: yes; so we keep then to frozen proto-cuntoo with an idea to hopefully be able to move on to cuntoo when that is ready + we have everything statically linking.
(trilema) diana_coman: to fully clarify: I can boot both/either servers on dulap-gentoo on either amd or intel hardware
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I missed the "at all" nuance in your second question http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-06#1949741 ie I was still in cuntoo-env
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: indeed it does.
(trilema) diana_coman: are you confusing amd with cuntoo or what am I confusing here?
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: that is AMD with dulap-gentoo aka proto-cuntoo aka NOT fully statically linked
(trilema) diana_coman: so if we go that route, this would be the first thing to sort out
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: atm as they are none will boot because none are fully statically linked.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: what do you mean exactly by "boot the server"? (and which one: production or dev?)
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not until I get rid of cs or move it to gnat and build it statically
(trilema) diana_coman: I'm rather relieved to hear that because indeed, cuntoo is the best candidate I see so far
(trilema) diana_coman: not like s.mg hasn't provided service to the republic so far otherwise.
(trilema) diana_coman: I very much like bvt's work for sure.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I can add detail if/where needed but atm I don't have something I see to add there.
(trilema) diana_coman: this would be my list, let me know if I should detail any point in there.
(trilema) diana_coman: at 4 I mean esp given the fact that the server code is sensitive
(trilema) diana_coman: 5. concrete next steps
(trilema) diana_coman: 4. server(s)
(trilema) diana_coman: 3. cumulative effect of various bits and pieces stuck/stalling
(trilema) diana_coman: 2. FFA use/integration
(trilema) diana_coman: 1. OS issue/choice for S.MG
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I was waiting on you and you were waiting on me?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: good to know at least.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: presumably they can be sent by courier too, can't they?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and he's not even far away from them ie easier to get them delivered, huh; good point.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: what's eating your time that much though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: heh, enjoy!
(trilema) diana_coman: !Xbid 1063 20mn
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: huh, no autobid?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ack more timely; it's fine to say you need some time to reflect but say it + give an eta for reflection's output, don't just leave it hanging like that, basic manners.
(trilema) diana_coman: aha, I enjoyed the part 0 :)
(trilema) diana_coman: but ftr, the fact he writes those in parts is because I set him to do that (as a cure to wasting time otherwise).
(trilema) diana_coman: he can't complain he didn't get feedback :D
(trilema) diana_coman: and well done jfw !
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ha!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you might want to set an autobid too for that matter, see the help page
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw dorion re bidding on the auction, you can do it either here on in #t , it's up to you (bot will take your bid either way).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: eulora is a masterclass in economy mascarading as a videogame; that'd be as close to a "full description" as it gets.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1009024 - good point; still, he needs to build first a desktop since he never ever did such a thing; the rackables can wait.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1009022 - heh, whatever you neglect will come back to bite you exactly when you have least time for it.
(trilema) diana_coman: but you know, if the "few times" when it goes down it fucks your electronics, I have no idea how you get to "no complaints"
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: lol, you're setting a bounty there!
(ossasepia) diana_coman will be back tomorrow
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but a state of sadness indeed, sigh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you know, dorion should play eulora the most actually
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahahaha, why so mean jfw
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so unless you know that already...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the trouble there is that it depends on what you are going to do exactly on it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ^^^ good points.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: cool; make sure you get everything you need, esp the small bits eg thermal paste indeed and cables of all sorts; again, those partpicker sites can give you some idea if you don't have any otherwise since you can see there the full list.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you should read the specs for each component and check compatibility; that being said, there are also some sites that can help you with that, just search around.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: sounds like you quite enjoy making stuff actually; (and yes, I get what you mean there re simple+comprehensible & seeing it come to life)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not like it's mandatory or "the best" or anything but as a starting point at least
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ah, doubly exciting then, nice; but you should start then with some reading at the very least, gather a list with all the stuff you need and so on; to make it easy re choice of "what to build", I suppose you can get and fx & corresponding board eg the config in http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/14/a-working-cuntoo-install-on-amd-fx-8350-with-script/
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, just... nothing excitingly right yet?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: they are indeed tools or they are *supposed to be* tools, no?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what's wrong with real-world needs?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that sounds more ... adult than jaded, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: machines have no business "allowing" anything, that's not for them.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: so what do you want most to do with them?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: when they do, shoot them!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: oh, and ftr re dark ages: the difference is not *that* big, I'm 38.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the q re the practical side of what they allow one to do is precisely that - do they quite allow you to do all you wanted to do with them?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I positively couldn't stand progrmaming too !
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not as much from the finished stuff as from peaking at its insides
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ftr my fondness of the zx80 clone I saw as first comp comes mainly from the fact that I literally saw it assembled piece by piece
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, not like it started then or something
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahahaha, that's good to know!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: oh huh, no zx80, how sad.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, your brain does quite a lot of remarkable in that sense, doesn't it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what was your first computer anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: in what way remarkable though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: sadly not much there, no; I suspect I might need to find out at some point though.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: aha; you were saying that you're quite fond of your computers and it struck as rather interesting: how's that exactly ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I had to read that a couple of times, lol; ok.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but it's buying you time simply, not more.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's not to say that you shouldn't make use of what's currently available, of course you should.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hence why you need to think of it with enough time in advance but otherwise to the extent that's crucial to your whole biz, you can't quite avoid it really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I realised I have no idea: how many people are you teaching in this batch that finishes end of Nov iirc?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: did you consider this?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's more a matter of procurement anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: btw, as far as I see it and since you say you are actually relying on FGs as part of your business, you should really look into making them yourself
(ossasepia) diana_coman: just make sure you get the numbers right so you actually know what you're bidding there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and for that matter if you'd absolutely need to pay in ecu, it wouldn't be a problem ; but atm seeing how no eulora server, it would be quite...difficult
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: not really ie it's pegged and so the payment can still be done in BTC via deedbot
(ossasepia) diana_coman: all right; I'm still around and available to chat but I covered the topics I really wanted to ask you about today so thank you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: certainly; it was more to have some idea where you are on that path there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and the WoT for that matter?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you understand V?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, I'd certainly give it a spin at least, why not.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ftr, I wasn't saying that against you/your code there, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, well done.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and with all the changes from one version to another, it might even not run fine on my 2.6.6 for instance
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: python itself; it's not the cleanest thing there is, for sure
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, as nice as python can be, there is that hard limit, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that would be quite a nice thing tbh
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: how about that irc client? could I just run it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not that I didn't enjoy at that time but uhm, iirc it was rather limited
(ossasepia) diana_coman: huh, it's some 15 years since I last did anything with Scheme
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: is that "Gales Bitcoin Wallet" somehow relying on some Gales-specific or why the name?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and moreover, as you say, X11 and anything-more-than-minimal still needs to be captured and signed and so on
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the idea though is that the signed genesis does not yet include those offline tarballs too (though arguably it should since there's no way around it)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: no more mirrors, thank you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and ftr that's how I want it too: OFFLINE
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the minimal tree is captured ie I have installed the whole thing totally offline
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: from what you say you went a much more restricted and idiosyncratic way there, hence my above http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1008876
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the point was precisely that, namely to pin down and freeze something that one can reliably reproduce and then have as a starting point
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: "/cuntoo/portage is configured as the system's highest priority repository, with upstream Gentoo and the overlays demoted." - to cite from the source
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but at least yes, it's not limited in that sense
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'm not sure I'd call the result still cuntoo
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so basically you can use it as a clean starting point and then mess it up with anything
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: it has portage and you can point it in principle to anything you want
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: cuntoo as it stands currently is more of an initial minimal genesis + a roadmap waiting for people to get moving along it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but hm, that does sound overall more like your own practice room to know-more-linux than anything else
(ossasepia) diana_coman looks sideways at the shiny comp with all the bells and whistles she...had to get for work on eulora client.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (re irssi and bugs in general, there is also the q of whether all their bugs apply to you but not the moment to go on that tangent right now)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: are you effectively limited there by your scripts ie if you find tomorrow you want a new package then you're stuck until you write the script for it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: myeah, it isn't; then again, how could it be cheap in the given context.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, but that'd be a vpatch rather than an upgrade
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: out of pure curiosity now: do you find yourself upgrading software much those days?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, what upgrades, lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what did you start with? and when you say a set of package build scripts, does this literally mean you have a set of sources + scripts to build them or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you have certainty re supply there esp since older model?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but at any rate, what's that Gales Linux exactly and how/in what way different from Cuntoo? where/what are your problems there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the mp-wp patches and stuff might not fit meanwhile the head of the v-tree anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: as it seems it will take a while until you might get to write down neatly all the stuff you've been working on, mind giving me a clearer summary here?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, at least writing doesn't make it worse, hopefully.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: he has only a bunch of laptops in his house, namely 2 crapples and 1 thinkpad; so his optimisation first is to actually get... a computer.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: yes, but honestly, who in CR actually builds own computer? ie even in San Jose, while one can possibly find some seller, I wouldn't really trust them to have much in stock/good stuff because demand ~0
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you have some time?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: because the trouble is that in a rural area, who the fuck will have thermal paste and of good quality and in good condition?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I suppose it depends on whether he can get them with same order or not
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1008803 - sneakin' but right at least, can't complain there; what do you mean by does Latin have the structure?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and yeah, judging by the local rural level + BingoBoingo's xp in south america you are probably better off ordering stuff
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: absolutely.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: glad to hear it works best for you too that way, certainly.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (as I said in your chan too for that matter)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: I asked him specifically to fix some time.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: that "physical posts" image makes me think of a sort of haphazard hut-of-a-blog, lolz
(trilema) diana_coman: lobbes: ah, thank you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: fwiw I fully understand the need and the idea that it's possible to help there; unfortunately though I have long experience that shows it won't work but experience can't be directly passed on, obviously, it is what it is.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it will probably be quite hard to pin him down for a conversation as such but you can still budget your time on this overall even if it ends up as 5 minutes today and 5 tomorrow; the important thing is overall to have a clear stop somewhere because otherwise it will just drag on.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you can ask your questions in #a whenever convenient at any rate, at least it's stated and you'll get whatever answers you get.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I asked him to put a limit on it, yes.
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, ah, the sluts are too open for open source, I see.
(trilema) diana_coman: basically sluts are ....hm, not open enough?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: it is! and good for you :)
(trilema) diana_coman: lobbes: where's the help page for auctionbot these days? when I pm-ed it with !Xhelp it turned all windows-help on me: auctionbot> Default help. Known commands: help, ping
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw dorion you might want to have a look at ^
(trilema) diana_coman: I do get feeds from it, got a bunch today even so it's working at least here.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: carrying over from #t, the correct word describing the contents of a blog is articles rather than "posts"; so there shall be no more "posts", only articles.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: glad to hear it.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman fully agrees with spyked here.
(trilema) diana_coman: if they get delivered in eulora it'd be grand.
(trilema) diana_coman: yes, that would be quite it (or it should better be it).
(trilema) diana_coman: all right, articles it is!
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, in that sense; yes, that would be it indeed.
(trilema) diana_coman: what, those articles they write in the new yorker or the wired or what
(trilema) diana_coman: yes, but "post" there for all its similarity to "to post to the blog" is just as made up, as far as I can see; a blog post, as there is a newspaper article, dunno; and in the vein of "just as much to do with what they are doing otherwise", wouldn't that hold for articles too?
(trilema) diana_coman: myeah, except I would much rather give feedback to those who committed and work themselves to use it.
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: blog is just a made up word as much as post is.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-05#1949535 - oh boy; it's a cribbed-assignment basically, aka he talked in #o nonsense over the head of people actually committed and working on it so I told him to go write on his blog what he wants and otherwise apply if he means anything.
(trilema) diana_coman: or what, gazette
(trilema) diana_coman: so yeah, it is correct to call them articles and to call the "blog" a book I suppose.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-05#1949532 - technically it was "a blog post"; going for correctness there, I would even question wtf is "blog" anyway, since I get it, binary log except I don't write in binary, what.
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