mircea_popescu: i very vividly remember the STRIVE, the fucking indomitable drive of black people in the 70s an' 80s to catch up, to become, to civilize, to build up their countries. it started in the early years of the century, with luminaries like the emperor of ethiopia ; it bulked out and by the 70s it was a deluge.
mircea_popescu: which, sadly but painfully, has been my experience of europe. i took a coupla sluts born in the colonies to take in the glories of the motherland, and the motherland meanwhile's turned 100% chad.
mircea_popescu: neways. the cows have enough sense to find their own house, but only if the gate hasn't been changed recently -- the village cattle minder just takes them to the end of the village as the air turns dusky, and they on their own time sorta lumber towards the respective storage units
mircea_popescu: no substitutes are acceptable, it has to be the exact one.
jfw: They'll need to get that cowpie into unicode 12.2.
mircea_popescu: sitting at the gate tryina figure it out. "do these people hate english ? or everything other than english ? hmmm!!! my premise could not possibly be faulty, i'm a literate veal that can spell his own name, just look at this last cowpie, how well it speals -- VEAL!"
mircea_popescu: "literate" veals, very capable of scribbling their own name in an alphabet of their choice (somehow nobody notices "using an alphabet of your own choice" is THE OPPOSITE OF SPELLING, and the exact definition of illiteracy -- all the fucking farmhands who can't read or write COULD scribble something down, anyone can screech random squgg;lies, with a shovel in a pile of dirt, with their own piss on driven snow, fingerpain
mircea_popescu: for my sins i find myself surrounded by the problems of my ancestors, which i guess is making them happy. fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: so it sits an gazes at the thing, and could sit there all evening. you have to know you have to send one of the children to drag the animal back in. it's one of the fringes of proper manhood, things far out in the footnotes of the book of being an 1700s romanian peasant, stuff only a few know, BUT ALL EVENTUALLY DISCOVER.
mircea_popescu: and the veal does not know what to do. it does sorta look like his house, but then what is THIS thing ?!
mircea_popescu: this necessarily means that every veal returning home will return to a new gate every time the man has fixed his.
mircea_popescu: now, the time for the cows to leave the house is in the early morning, they go grazing. whereas the time to fix your outer gate is kinda noon-ish, after more high priorty items were seen to.
mircea_popescu: you see, in traditional culture everything has a time and a place. that's it's principal quality, the thing that makes it a culture in the first place : it's complete.
mircea_popescu: literally it means, "you gaze upon it like the veal at the new gate". it translates into literature an ancient experience of an ancient cattle herding people :
mircea_popescu: there's this romanian idiomatic, it goes "te uiti ca vitelu' la poarta noua".
jfw: I took it as, "wait wut, do these people hate English or everything-but-English??"
mircea_popescu: good god, with minds like these what need of scholarship.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha, and THAT is offensive to the illiterate self-spellers ?!
jfw: mircea_popescu: ah no, the line he and then I attempted to link was "The English sources at my disposal underwhelm, so let's instead take a stab at the Latin beneath."
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 15:44:57 diana_coman: jfw: eh, that's the usual way socialism always goes - it's "the people's interests" except of course they get defined discarding any given individual's input if it does not match "what the interests should be" etc.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958344 << quite exactly, the perfect wankdevice.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what some illiterate moron deems problematic about that sentence, maybe it's the vocabulary, such as the word "sin". god knows they have vocabulary problems all the damned time.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 19:33:08 tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r08ACagY/image.png
mircea_popescu: the salient points are 1. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-18#1958204 somehow linked to 2. something off trinque's blog which reads "Therefore we may not sin too much calling complexity the measure of how weaved-with an item is, either in itself or with its surroundings.", if that indeed's what was meant by "second line".
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958342 << i dunno, i was trying to unravel a disorderly ball of poorly made references by the illiterate farmhands of the object-oriented cvasi-programming cult.
mircea_popescu: illiterate users of spellkits for their own name seem to me less desirable than literate people, so whathevers. i guess the practical difference between musl and say python is actually nil, and if you want to use it you'll have to fork and maintain it.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 15:37:57 jfw: "Not treating users like they're "illiterate" if they want to be able to write their own name has always been the most important
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958336 << i guess. these retrospective statements of "what was ALWAYS most important" rather evoke dreamstates. if the person in question was in fact literate, he'd have linked the historical statement, rather than provide an ad-hoc reintrepretation of what he currently thinks was "always" the most important.
hanbot: "This will allow non-English speakers the ability to understand the errors that are happening on the computers they own." << jfw lol check out the thinly-veiled ownership hierarchy. "you need us in order to pretend to ownership!"
deedbot: hanbot updated rating of asciilifeform from 3 to -1 << For all his pretensions to personhood, this guy actually needed me to save him from a hotel bill he couldn't handle as he was too stupid, neglectful, or both, to check out on his own. Years later he's decided to keep raging against acquiring basic skills by attempting to tarnish those who tried to help him. In a word, the ficklest friend I ever thought I had.
diana_coman: well, they are certainly stuck to "resolve" through pretense of one sort or another; whether that is the easiest pretense or not doesn't even matter all that much, it's more like a forced move really, what *else* are they going to do since they rule out entirely addressing the root cause?
jfw: easiest way to "resolve" the nonexistence of a singluar "people's interests" I guess
diana_coman: jfw: eh, that's the usual way socialism always goes - it's "the people's interests" except of course they get defined discarding any given individual's input if it does not match "what the interests should be" etc.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 22:00:03 mircea_popescu: so what's the point, casual usage of the word sin is triggering ?
jfw: well at least he puts it in terms of HIS interests rather than all users worldwide in the abstract
jfw: core value of the project, and your attitude towards the matter here does not make me interested in going out of my way to cater to you."
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 19:29:06 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: to my mind the "no one user matters more than another" means of course "no user matters at all" ; because it follows by necessity.
jfw: "Not treating users like they're "illiterate" if they want to be able to write their own name has always been the most important
jfw: Latest from the musl thread, from the main guy Felker: https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2020/02/19/4 ( http://archive.is/maiqg ). In brief - perhaps I'm underinformed on specifics but in general full unicodeism has been their goal from the start
mircea_popescu: ahahaha. the guy's name is topescu with a tz, like in https://dexonline.ro/definitie/țoapă ; not with a plain t like in to melt.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 20:10:44 mircea_popescu: incidentally, cristina topescu died recently, as in, over xmas (this was the daughter of just such a wonder, the ONLY romanian sports commenter, one cristian topescu. socialist romania had one of everything, you knew what panties the girl has on before looking and you knew who was gonna narrate the game on the radio while you're looking). the chick was only famous for once on tv -- because hey, she followed the
jfw: trinque: hm, I thought you had implemented selection there but doesn't appear working.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 19:33:08 tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r08ACagY/image.png
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-18#1958204 - I'll be so kind as to fix the reference for him; I suppose raster graphics must seem as good as text when your alphabet is unbounded: http://trinque.org/2019/12/29/a-republican-os-part-2/?b=The%20English&e=.#select
mircea_popescu: anyways, contrary to the purportings and pretences traditionally required by their culture, i do kinda suspect ye pantsuit gets pretty well overwhelmed in this here copacetic copse of #trilema
mircea_popescu: anyways, ff they had known they might have found a world of joy... but as they lived on the midnight side of the mountain...
diana_coman: the things I still...know; lolz.
diana_coman: I winced at cristian topescu recollection as I can still hear the descriptions of figure skaters' costumes, colours included, argghhh.
mircea_popescu: but i hope that she's regarding her death with the requisite superior detachement, feigned as it may be. "well... that didn't whelm!"
mircea_popescu: rade, as part of being independent liberated woman etc -- as a colt she wished something or the other re "oualelor de paste" which is an impossible construction derived off romanian ou ie egg by someone who doesn't understand how difficult genitives form. so she was celebrated for an april in song and lulz
mircea_popescu: incidentally, cristina topescu died recently, as in, over xmas (this was the daughter of just such a wonder, the ONLY romanian sports commenter, one cristian topescu. socialist romania had one of everything, you knew what panties the girl has on before looking and you knew who was gonna narrate the game on the radio while you're looking). the chick was only famous for once on tv -- because hey, she followed the famlby t
mircea_popescu: but then again i suppose that's what an expert polyglot is all about : one who speaks fifty languages in one, by inventing an imaginary "whelm" and perhaps typesetting everything in japanese.
mircea_popescu: at least the original soviets had the werewithal to laugh at it on their own power, didn't need foreign polyglots to "not whelm" by pointing and laughing.
mircea_popescu: the only problem is the very lulzy soviet-style gerontocracy involved. i mean, they've nobody but 90yos left to "leadership" them, and if they need somebody to star in a tv production it's gonna be a dude born in the 50s ?! still, today as in 1970, as in 1980, as in forever, the heroes of socialist labour are the same exact physical items ?
mircea_popescu: fry and laurie was this long running british tv show made to fill the hole left by monty python. it was rabidly socialist to an utterly offensive degree, and made the popularity of both faggots involved (among the uk bernie sandals crowd)
diana_coman: I am still shocked at the idea that ...uhm, was Laurie...hot? as in ..ever?
jfw: a productive evening then!
mircea_popescu: anyway, at least i found out there's nothing on tv without having to buy one.
jfw: funny how mircea_popescu probably speaks more languages than half the musl-using population combined...
tecuane: welp my time is up and i didnt really learn anything i already knew apart from mircea_popescu likes using the synonym feature of microsoft word a bit too much and the dislike of translations is actually just not liking other languages as opposed to "there might be bugs"
mircea_popescu: wtf, they've run out, next big thing on tv is going to be... mr bean.
mircea_popescu: o god, this is the funniest thing i heard all day.
mircea_popescu: there's this retard who became "hot" because he was in some medical drama
mircea_popescu: jfw, is this the clooney vehicle ?
mircea_popescu: no dood, they're just fucking stupid. i watch 1970s adriano celentano made-for-tv movies recently tho, so it's pretty much the same thing.
jfw: (from the very little I saw.)
mircea_popescu: i'd ask what's house md, but you've such a terrible record answering these.
mircea_popescu: i don't particularly care if you put a "you're beautiful today" motd in your libc. but i also can't use such a libc, so i'll have to fork it if i want to use it. which is the whole point here.
mircea_popescu: did you ever do any work in an actually secure environment ? because there's a difference of perspective, you realise, between hipster doofuses trying to impress imaginary girlfriends with their code-inclusiveness, and people who write systems that do not lose other people's money.
tecuane: probably not because i dont spend my time coming up with cool linguistic comebacks in the shower in my downtime from removing other languages from my libc tbh
mircea_popescu: you'll look up "foutez" and "camp" and decide what, "fuck me the field" is a french idiom ?
jfw: The OO discussion must make us class-ists too I suppose!
tecuane: this behaviour explains the operating system thing so much
mircea_popescu: a polyglot is someone who speaks multiple languages. this state doesn't take the "expert" tag.
tecuane: even if they were in a different language
tecuane: as an expert polyglot im sure you are the absolute benchmark for what is and is not "good code"
mircea_popescu: well yeah, that's the sort of sentiment that's necessarily mutual.
tecuane: it hasnt even faded from popularity let alone been relegated to the trash
tecuane: mircea_popescu: in what universe has oo been "put in the bin" ever
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: you know, I was trying to not shock tecuane with this notion that it being a public chan there are actually *other* people reading and talking and generally participating.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, can tell you some joys of oo-idiocy and the sorta lulz it drives.
tecuane: oo didnt get put in the bin lmao
mircea_popescu: it was a worse fucking idea than "object oriented", and it's high time it got marked as such and put in the dustbin where it belongs.
mircea_popescu: in fact, i would say unicode is the poster child for what broken code even means.
mircea_popescu: some people wanan make their imaginary race about using square wheels, that's their fucking problem.
mircea_popescu: everyting can seem so, including supporting the japanese nonsense.
tecuane: you talk like someone on the fence about it
tecuane: its not fair to bring The Riddler to a conversation
mircea_popescu: that's not exactly what's jhappening lol. the republic's an actual thing, distinct from i.
tecuane: i didnt realise i would also be talking to someone who writes in riddles and screeds, using the royal "the republic" instead of "i"
jfw: tecuane: I have no problem at all with what languages people represent on their computer, the more the merrier; I very much have a problem with extra code (+ potential bugs) being added to my computer to support it in core system utilities
mircea_popescu: this means private libcs, there's a coupla flavours.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, the republic is currently maintaining static linked os, yes.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 15:58:41 ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 22:40:07 mircea_popescu: jfw, re the whole musl & locales issue, it might be an idea to signal to them, "look, we use musl, and we don't think this is a good idea". irrespective of whether it does anything, at least that way they can't say they didn't realise "unanimity" is hallucinated etc.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, i suppose you read my pov re the issue you're discussing. there's a log : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-18#1958186
tecuane: beyond yayposting on the mailing lists
mircea_popescu: tecuane, the problem with supporting non-alphabet approaches to an alphabet is that you get the worst of both worlds.
ossabot: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:48:52 phf: mule is probably part of the greater concern within the overal situation which was japanese and unicode
mircea_popescu: ll be personally impacted by not being able to represent the "japanese current era" -- something i'm apparently able to represent right now, without using unicode for it (so perhaps, i'm saying, the problem is in the schmuck in question's own head). that'd be it really, do your best under the constraints as they are."
mircea_popescu: anyway, your statement is i guess something along the lines of "look, good fellows, your theory as to how users matter is not an argument in the direction you wish to construe it, but exactly opposite. the republic specifically does not want there to be unicode support. if you implement it, that means the republic will fork and maintain your thing pre-implementation. if you do not implement it, some schmuck somewhere wi
tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/r08ACagY/image.png
tecuane: apart from using "considered harmful" which is unilaterally considered the most dumbass way to get a point across
jfw: mircea_popescu: ha, good point. It's their email list
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: to my mind the "no one user matters more than another" means of course "no user matters at all" ; because it follows by necessity.
mircea_popescu: how is the "no one user is more important than another" nonsense an argument for their position ? user q wants y, user w wants there not to be y, "no one user is more important than another" =necessarily> no y.
jfw: matters more than another"
jfw: I suppose what happens is the gravedigger who fancied there might be some life in the bodies gets convinced otherwise. From the first response: "Unicode 12.1 added the symbol for the new Japanese era, Reiwa Era. You will be unable to represent current dates in the Japanese calendar without this update." ; "I have been personally impacted by the lack of [political sort order]" ; "No one user
mircea_popescu: i don't expect much happening in that sense. if you bury the dead rather than let them rot under the bird-ladden sky, what happens ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 22:40:07 mircea_popescu: jfw, re the whole musl & locales issue, it might be an idea to signal to them, "look, we use musl, and we don't think this is a good idea". irrespective of whether it does anything, at least that way they can't say they didn't realise "unanimity" is hallucinated etc.
diana_coman: bvt: cool, I'll give it another spin, hopefully soon.
bvt: diana_coman: answered your comment yesterday, uploaded the regrind of p.1 and p.2 yesterday as well.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 23:08:08 mircea_popescu: i get it, you're a nice fellow and would like for things to be good and work out. nothing wrong with that. you wanna help along with the things, excellent. the prompter's at "get the few who actually seem like they could have something intelligent to say on the topic to comment on the proposed spec ; an' help mp figure out why they don't apparently naturally want to ; but without going out of what he's doing, s
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-17#1958160 - ok. I'll work on asking smart questions more often to replace the bad habits of jumping back and forth between a) staying silent and b) jumping ahead with excess optimism.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 23:07:57 mircea_popescu: wth do you even represent the eventual world-equivalent of your word usage to be ? two weeks hence mod6 shows up with a working drop-in replacement for an intricate, specialist piece of machinery that happens to be built with skills he doesn't have by an advanced programmer he isn't on a worldview he doesn't share ?
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-17#1958157 - I figured he'd at least show up to ask questions, but I see now if that were the case it would've been done the 5th or 6th or sometime before the 15th when he published
dorion: a reason I read the logs w/o talking was that very "try and figure out how to conduct myself such that the others don't puke." as I had puked myself reading the various douchebags.
mircea_popescu: perhaps the best model to inform this issue'd be the western cowbody brought to boston, or any other such savage-in-london rapturous moments. well... do you suppose heaven has a stiff learning curve ? how to conduct yourself such as all the others there don't throw up ?
mircea_popescu: imagine by the way what serious problems the concept of heaven actually poses to people. what do they do there all day ? well, conceivably, IF indeed they do something, if haven's something besides hell under another name (the problem with hell self-evidently ain't "the fire", but THE BOREDOM) they conceivably do something. yet... what ? likely not anything driven or inspired by "the flesh", which leaves... what does it
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 23:07:38 mircea_popescu: one is that the spec as sketched by me is nowhere near mature enough for implementation in the first place ; it requires some actual looking at and discussion ; some prototyping, some trying out after it's mature before the implementation is actually in a state where anyone'd trust it with anything ; which first anythings will very likely NOT be the changing of how V works around it.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-17#1958151 - hm, yeah. it did seem that I was forcing it a bit. I just now brought up the eulora comms protocol and tmsr rsa specs as first examples that came to mind to drive your point home further. I ought to have taken
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 18:32:47 dorion: I'll let him show and tell, his patch removes the whole rotor orchestra since Gales is musl static anyway.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 09:37:40 diana_coman: maybe I'm not fully getting the idea of the manifest file here but my current understanding is that it's a record of the history and as such I really don't see any case where something gets deleted from it - at most it gets branched from a previous version but that's still an added line to (a previous version of) the manifest file.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-17#1958136 << i'd say you got the right idea here, manifest.txt is an add-only buffer, attempts to modify it ~= pirate patch.
mircea_popescu: r instance by speciffically calling them for it point blank. for some reason he didn't do that though he self-evidently could have, maybe there's a reason for that other than his being shy, such as perhaps that he doesn't wanna force march it, for which call there might in turn also be reasons and so on."
mircea_popescu: i get it, you're a nice fellow and would like for things to be good and work out. nothing wrong with that. you wanna help along with the things, excellent. the prompter's at "get the few who actually seem like they could have something intelligent to say on the topic to comment on the proposed spec ; an' help mp figure out why they don't apparently naturally want to ; but without going out of what he's doing, such as fo
mircea_popescu: whenever it's bois freedom afternoon at the household of whatever chick owns his sorry ass, half hour sunday while she's out with her friends or w/e, and then drops random offensive nonsense that doesn't actually go with anything but it's nevertheless the best he could get to in the limited time and with the limited involvement his owner permits.
mircea_popescu: wth do you even represent the eventual world-equivalent of your word usage to be ? two weeks hence mod6 shows up with a working drop-in replacement for an intricate, specialist piece of machinery that happens to be built with skills he doesn't have by an advanced programmer he isn't on a worldview he doesn't share ?
mircea_popescu: there's more, too but anyways, you're supposed to be aware of these things, as part and parcel of what having an internal life of the mind ever means.
mircea_popescu: yet one in three or four or whatever's still way the fuck more than absolute zero, which is what you'll get out of "hey, [name i picked out of the hat], do [thing i picked out of the hat]".
mircea_popescu: while ~everything was built on it (putting it intellectually way ahead of, say, THE ENTIRE COLLECTIVE OF LISP USERS & their collected historical products, or anything else "the civilised" Western world has to offer), nevertheless it really fails more often than it delivers.
mircea_popescu: another reason is that this throwing darts work allocation method's never been observed to work in practice. the correct way to allocate work, as actually observable in the damned logs you've supposedly read and re-read, actually works on a very hit-and-miss basis in the first place (owing to itemized an' specifically described failures an' assorted head cockroaches of the ~worthless white anglophone young male)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 18:32:25 dorion: perhaps mod6 takes the lead to implement the clearsigned scheme on his keccak regrind of the trb tree.
mircea_popescu: one is that the spec as sketched by me is nowhere near mature enough for implementation in the first place ; it requires some actual looking at and discussion ; some prototyping, some trying out after it's mature before the implementation is actually in a state where anyone'd trust it with anything ; which first anythings will very likely NOT be the changing of how V works around it.
dorion: spyked is rebuilding trb shortly, so if mod6 leads the way, followed by jfw and spyked that's at least 3 people scrutinizing the clearsigning scheme, tools and likely many of the same patches within the same timeframe.
dorion: I'll let him show and tell, his patch removes the whole rotor orchestra since Gales is musl static anyway.
dorion: jfw is expecting to finish the offline side of Gales Bitcoin Wallet this week, so his development plate will be clearing a bit. He has an unpublished patch to trb to simplify the build system on Gales, so checking/working with mod6 and getting his patch published could be his next priority. Among other simplifications
dorion: perhaps mod6 takes the lead to implement the clearsigned scheme on his keccak regrind of the trb tree.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 22:50:12 mircea_popescu: well, hm. maybe it's time to re-iterate this point, especially seeing how diana_coman 's recent work,
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-05#1957911 - it occurs to me that trb could be a good testing/clarification ground for this because a) it's likely the most scruntinized V-tree to date and b) mod6, jfw, and spyked all have some work to do with trb these next weeks.
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2020/02/the-good-old-boys-best-spigot-friends-club/ << The Whet -- The Good Old Boys Best Spigot Friends Club
bvt: diana_coman: ty for spotting this. i will regring vpatches p.1 and p.2; i wanted to make the vpatch p.1 name the same in manifest and file system, but did the wrong thing there just editing the line from previous vpatch in vpatch p.2.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-16 03:25:51 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-15#1958115 <-- approved meanwhile, will answer as soon as I get back to the keyboard
diana_coman: maybe I'm not fully getting the idea of the manifest file here but my current understanding is that it's a record of the history and as such I really don't see any case where something gets deleted from it - at most it gets branched from a previous version but that's still an added line to (a previous version of) the manifest file.
diana_coman: bvt: why does your vpatch cancel a line from the manifest? To my mind this doesn't quite make sense - if you want to revert to a previous point, that means simply branching the tree from a previous node so using *that* manifest, doesn't it?
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: ack. This'll give me time to prep the thing anyways
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-27 13:01:32 mircea_popescu: http://www.krankendenken.com/2020/01/mp-wp-bot-my-current-problem-and-possible-solutions/ << just ditch the shithole host you ran into.
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: in other bot news I ditched that last host and found a new one on Friday; they claim 48 hours to deliver so I'm expecting it'll be ready for me to start setting it up by probably Wed. This new host is in Brasil btw
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-02-16#1958115 << the toilet vps lobbesbot is on is down again. Will see what they say. (honestly atm lobbesbot has ~only two used commands: !Qlater-tell and !Qcalc ; instead of finding a new home for lobbesbot I'd rather just make another bot do those and retire the thing. But I've got other botworks in the queue)
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-14#1958099 <-- sounds great actually, the "pitiable ancestry" interpretation didn't occur to me until diana_coman mentioned it. but it still misses a connection to the "du-te-n ..." expression
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-15#1958115 <-- approved meanwhile, will answer as soon as I get back to the keyboard
mp_en_viaje: the chain of chaining!!!
mp_en_viaje: i seriously do not wish to hear anymore from you. if all you've got inside is in that vein, do me the favour and make that your last word.
mp_en_viaje: fucking inane bullshit, you've decided to see what action actionbot can bring ? who the fuck are you ? go measure the thickness of walls somewhere already, there's 0 the fuck need for YET ANOTHER pompous asshole to do me the very great service of counting my balls.
mp_en_viaje: there we go.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/02/cocaine-refinery-found-back-home-on-the-farm-of-colombian-ambassador-to-uruguay/ << Qntra -- Cocaine Refinery Found Back Home On The Farm Of Colombian Ambassador To Uruguay
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/2020/nu-te-mai-preocupa-esti-vai-de-mortii-tai << The Tar Pit -- Linguistic ruminations on the connection between dead relatives and how "the people" aren't worth two shits; and other urban subcultural considerations
mp_en_viaje: i just temporarily lost the services of a laptop through the cord sparking in the exact same way. fucktards.
mp_en_viaje: aand in other holy shit the world's decayed, romania caught up with historical argentina.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/the-great-buck-howard-aint-letting-me-sleep/ << Trilema -- The Great Buck Howard ain't letting me sleep.
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/11/no-atmos-in-the-atmosphere-euloras-defaults/ << Ossa Sepia -- No Atmos in the Atmosphere (Eulora's Defaults)
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/02/usg-ownership-of-crypto-ag-and-use-of-the-firms-products-to-spy-on-allies-and-customers-released-to-the-public/ << Qntra -- USG Ownership Of "Crypto AG" And Use Of The Firm's Products To Spy On "Allies" And Customers Released To The Public
mircea_popescu: the latter
whaack: mircea_popescu: noted. what I gather is I tried to use a style I dun understand and created something amusing in the “laugh at” rather than “laugh with” sense. When you say the various “similarly looking” articles substantially aren’t at all similar - did you mean that the trilema articles are not similar to each other or that they’re not similar to what I produced?
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/the-sulphur-dioxide-so2-cloud-above-wuhan/ << Trilema -- The sulphur dioxide (SO2) cloud above Wuhan
mircea_popescu: but in any case, the math... actually, i suppose i might as well make this an article huh. brb
mircea_popescu: except, of course, for the part where wuhan was never within western world tolerances for pollutants this millenium, nor since the mid 80s/early 90s, and this includes everything, not just so2. these are the people building coal power plants by the hundred A DAY, after all.
mircea_popescu: which, you know, ~technically~ could be the result of burning corpses. you know, like because so many people died from the latest "bird flu" nonsense that there's a cloud of sulphur dioxide
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the media circus of the day revolves around the femstate's "weather satellites" having noticed SO2 over wuhan in concentrations of like... 1400 ug/m3
mircea_popescu: the reason we want better tools is for to manage the interlocking system of options, as per von moltke's doctrine (yes, fellow's not coincidentally mentioned ; but indeed has been for a long time among the greatest influences of manly sanity available), not to actually ~do~ anything forthwith.
mircea_popescu: everything that exists is easily gone. rome sits on karstic hills, a guatemala-style sinkhole could have opened up and swallowed it 600 cubits underearth at any point. it didn't, which is besides the point in this discussion.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: in 2 words, easily gone; only yest freenode was in full blown idiocy with all those parts, not like it can't decide one day to further idiocy.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: that is true re basic tools, certainly; it strikes me that we are for all intent and purpose "gathering" here in the forum, no? sure, presumably the blogs can work too as alternative (they did or at least trilema did when needed) but still.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 01:39:30 mircea_popescu: there's a lenghty pile of disadvantages to the current mechanism we use, not least of these being that it actually imports koch-pgp. it also does suspect signature shenanigans of all sorts, which could potentially present security risks
mircea_popescu: tbh i'd rather have some basic tools finished first ; but anyways, how do you reason ?
diana_coman: hm, brings the current failure to move off freenode (and still no gossipd either) into focus really.
mircea_popescu: before some point cca 300, all that was good in this world was sorting out the seating arrangements on the benches in this acre of park somewhere. after that point, it was not.
mircea_popescu: and obviously odoacer had that major effect, of ruining the roman forum's schelling point quality. something which it had, perdurantly, for centuries, was lost one summer, like things are lost, like all lido gets a sandbar eventually.
mircea_popescu: to gather, they must gather somewhere. if the lordship fails to produce a schelling point, they will not gather.
mircea_popescu: well no, but look : lords there shall be. that's the first node. now, what shall they do ? either they gather, or they do not.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: hm, perhaps I can see the "retreat" as that ie why not cooperate with the rest so that maybe one does x and another y and so on; rather than each tarabostes-style; but otherwise, I don't think there was much *else* to do.
mircea_popescu: theirdemocracy fails so fuckind hard...
diana_coman: I suppose I should rather be grateful that they are dead and so don't get to see indeed how it is there, really.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: do you mean it's not the effect of the Dark ages but the cause? I don't quite see it tbh.
diana_coman: and what truly gets me is this memory (that doesn't even seem to be just mine alone/specific to me) of that great-grandfather who hung on to life just to get to ask the guy coming back from the first trip to the US "how is it there,really?"
mircea_popescu: not that hanbot_abroad doesn't make >50% of all the sushi we eat by now, but holy hell
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, what the fuck, so im gonna make my own boot atelier, produce locally everything, clothes made in the house, have my own pizza oven... do you realise this is EXACTLY what created the "Dark" ages, all the lords retired to their latifundiae and made everything there on slave labour ?
mircea_popescu: they fucking reconstructed it, except of course improved by experience. who the fuck do we shoot now!
diana_coman: but apparently they are not at this stage yet/too much fat still to get there or dunno.
diana_coman: I got the other part - which in hindsight proved good training at least - ie if you want something, you gotta do it yourself or forget about it!!
mircea_popescu: pretty much certain it's what got ceausescu shot, in the end, a hundred thousand people with a thousand memories each of "my friend Q, place W, year R ; my friend T, place Y, year U" and so on.
mircea_popescu: but by now, "the west" is exactly in that fucking position, "oh, this is the pizzeria, you can't have some pizza, oh that was the steakhouse where i was gonna take my friend as he was leaving, well... there was a queue so we ended up not going, that'll be our memory of our parting in year Z, how we were gonna but didn't because the regime is a piece of shit"
mircea_popescu: it couldn't be, in 1985 cluj, a case of "come meet me at X for Y". it always had to be "[unless they're out]" as a coda. unless theyre's a [too long] queue, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, you know, reading your boys' things, the most striking lulz is the creeping in the usian socialist republic of the traditions of the romanian socialist republic. do you recall how utterly infuriating for the general population it was, in the 80s, the constant need to have all social arrangements dependent on the very flimsy supply arrangements of the bankrupt & dysfunctional state ?
mircea_popescu: when trilema produces something that matches whatever formal pattern, say "oh fuck that ulysses, his boot's untied" it does so in a certain context, with generally careful handling of the negative space, which you (along with lots and lots of other people -- including on occasion <a href=http://thewhet.net/2019/01/perambulating-mp-pretense-vs-pretense/>experts</a>) are quite apt to miss ; yet it's the determinant of correc
mircea_popescu: whaack, you did produce grammatically correct trash. i can readily see whence the temptation comes, but what you have to take on faith (lacking as of yet the capacity to for yourself distinguish) is that the various "similarily looking" trilema articles substantially aren't at all similar.
mircea_popescu: in other tidbits : von moltke, who was born in the year 1800 and therefore technically qualifies, is thereby the only person born in the 17th century whose voice was recorded and therefore can be heard today : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OythrZ5_sdQ
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd very much like the redirect-unvoiced functionality already, also.
diana_coman: well, they are very good at pretense otherwise so they can ...pretend they haven't found anything, right? what is this, half-assed pretense only?
mircea_popescu: yes, but they lived looking.
mircea_popescu: in any case there is quite literally no alternative whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: there isn't actually any shortage. the world outside the gates is actually so intractably boring & pointless, it's pretty much necessarily as well as universally the case 100% of all available activity will pour into the republic.
diana_coman: myeah, I know; I admit that one hand I really didn't believe anyone was so dedicated to my chan and on the other hand I also did not quite grok the extent of disconnect that people can somehow live with.
mircea_popescu: i mean, you can "ban", but the ban's gotta specify something, and whatever it specifies will be an arbitrary, user-selected string, such as ip or box name or w/e
mircea_popescu: the problem with irc is that if you've actually got a dedicated moron, there's no good way to keep your log from filling with crap otherwise.
mircea_popescu: can also set others to be able to voice people
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, you know, obviously the correct solution is the correct solution ; but ad interim you can set your chan to +m anyways, and then voice whoever you personally want, manually.
mircea_popescu: mmm, a yeah, that was on the list wasn't it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 21:58:12 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954934 << I've meanwhile reviewed the article http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/
diana_coman: trinque: any chance of having the voice model in #ossasepia?
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2020/week-6-2020-review-with-some-reflections-on-the-subject-of-feedback-and-encountering-bots-blogging-for-bots-nest/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Week 6 2020 Review - With Some Reflections On The Subject Of Feedback And Encountering Bots Blogging For Bots Nest
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2020/02/manage-whats-important-to-you-with-rational-tools-when-you-join-humanity-or-fuck-mozilla/ << The Whet -- Manage what's important to you with rational tools when you join humanity. Or, fuck mozilla.
deedbot: diana_coman rated d41r -2 << alias for c0ncord, hence the same man-alone saving the world through coding while hiding under the bed.
deedbot: diana_coman rated c0ncord -2 << man-alone saving the world through coding while hiding under the bed.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-03 20:11:06 mod6: I fully agree, mailman is a ancient artefact back from, probably literally, the pre-september internet days. Yes, it's quite, well, frustrating to say the least.
trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-03#1957846 << and it just keeps going. pre-september is a reference to the internet-before-AOLification, and in this same breath "ancient artefact"
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-03 19:52:30 mod6: For me, I've always liked the mailing list. It's cumbersome, and it's had it's pain points in the past. Everyone, at one time or another, has had a problem getting things stuck in its queue, etc. However, when it works, it does work pretty well. I like how it checks the WoT on submission, has an archive, and we can all go back and look at it years and years later.
mircea_popescu: hanbot_abroad, that's for sure one of them. however, there was a more recent, not directly bitcoin related, egregious example which literally claimed ONE year.
hanbot_abroad: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-07#1957987 << top shelf withering gaze!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, this'd be a good theory, except of course ethiopia is very small by african standards. about the same population as the region of lazio at the time, like 10mn.
BingoBoingo: Kinda the only winning strategy for Africa. Throw bodies at the problem, keep taking losses which are actually a win until the other side exhausts. Solve two problems.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they rather sound like the serbs ; which would be surprising except of course for the part where they're deeply orthodox. just like the serbs.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, in practice they kinda got defeated in all engagements, just wore down the flimsy italians through sheer numbers. very unlike the boer fucking up the brits right and proper a half century prior.
mircea_popescu: survived the italians which are totally european, didn't survive the redditards, which are just as totally european as the redditalians
BingoBoingo: Socialists had a coup. The depose 80 year old had health problems as folks his age tend to. Still too much of a perceived threat to their more equal Africa and...
BingoBoingo: That's the whole of the Rasta thing. "An African beat Italy which is totally European. We've won"
BingoBoingo: hanbot_abroad: Some cult formed around a cardboard cutout of him. They smoke weed and listen to Bob Marley.
hanbot_abroad: mircea_popescu i guess medical tourism is a main appendage ofze devil then
mircea_popescu: "Hence, without cooling your heart of accustomed valour, there emerges your decision to fight fiercely, mindful of your history that will last far into the future
mircea_popescu: and further,
mircea_popescu: "If you withhold from your country Ethiopia the death from cough or head-cold of which you would otherwise die, refusing to resist (in your district, in your patrimony, and in your home) our enemy who is coming from a distant country to attack us, and if you persist in not shedding your blood, you will be rebuked for it by your Creator and will be cursed by your offspring. "
mircea_popescu: so the italian dorks are playing empire in his ancient land ; dude fancies himself a descendant of the fucking queen of sheeba in a direct line. therefore he issues a proclamation :