← | Results 5501 ... 5750 found in all logged channels for 'f:diana' | →
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-18#1956934 - successful build; haven't yet installed it, although there's a lenovo x200 unearthed for it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015350 - heh; listen, get used to *always* look a bit more at whatever you are doing at any given time; I specifically did not say anything about comment/articles numbers there so you have a chance to fix that too on your own steam; but you have to look and consider more than just the exact prod, what!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: do take pingbacks out of recent comments on your blog; see the patch
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: was this comment ever answered somewhere?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015333 - glad to hear it's sorted and looking forward to the article.
(trilema) diana_coman: theoretically at least, nothing stops phf from still reading it anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015316 - sales leads do have priority but there still has to be somewhere some time for getting back to your blog too; it's not all that unrelated either.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: quite a pity though.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015315 - apparently it's a vanishing-cameras start of the year!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-17#1015311 - that sounds like it took way longer than you expected.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: from that paste, it looks like you should have 2 files there for each pic and if you say it doesn't render, it would seem like the -1024px.jpg file is missing/not found; did you check that url directly/that file being where the src of <img src=... > points to?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: basically: discriminate.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, if it's something *stupid*, cheer them on ...from the sides, sure; and otherwise anyway, choose those who you don't want to let down, there's no possible good out of such blanket approach on this as on pretty much everything else.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: either something so out of the blue that it trips over the "expected flow" or ...escalating the stupidity, it does wonders.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: see, it helps to destabilise this sort of standard-comments
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you should have told them that it has it SO secure that they can't even notice it!!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: why so easily convinced anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lolz, always better to quit ahead of the bull I suppose, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ha! so stupid decision but not even *your* own stupid idea to start with.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, you know, don't waste anger on the whole tree like that; just all to the root to make sure it sticks and that's it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: re tar, I don't really think it's worth /serious priority atm tbh
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it might still be a while really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I haven't yet got around to try deploying it too but at least there's a lenovo x200 unearthed that awaits to play the guinea pig.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: lol, I'd have thought it was the idiotic-crowd-mingling that was the night-ruiner; the camera was just the price of the lesson there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: fwiw, after reading your very useful BUILD doc a couple of times, I still packed the whole thing into a script mainly for speed but on reflection I think you got the right balance there - easy for one to make own script but not pre-packaged.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: yeah, I got why there was the --sort
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: fyi, I got around to build Gales and it seems to have built fine on a CentOS 6 with gcc 4.9.4; there was just a short wtf moment when the... tar cmd failed; it turns out that the --sort option is available only from tar V 1.28 while my local tar is ... 1.23; I didn't see any version spec in the prerequisites though probably my CentOS 6 is about as old everything as one gets nowadays
(trilema) diana_coman: ahaha; and if it's not ~33%, it will still be some % so the more writing the better anyway, sure; lolz.
(trilema) diana_coman: good I wrote that CG map article that got him to even talk about it though, huh; now how do I guess what *else* might hit something in the dark like that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I class it much simpler than that really but possibly because I saw enough of actual sheep herds, hm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ahahhaha; well, at least you got as a result quite the clear illustration of what "safety in numbers" ever means! And you still get to write it up, can't miss "Chased by the bull" article!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: aha; anyways, have some rest & work well after that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: you know, that ping was pretty much to get you starting before Friday on stuff, heh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you're welcome :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: some time, not all the time in the world, heh
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so switch back to other writings for now; think of smaller /different questions whenever you give it some thought and see where it is maybe next week or so.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so possibly it did take a bit the pressure off there; that being said, it will come back again anyway if you just forget about it but by the sounds of it, you are possibly better off giving it some time too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, you *did* get something clarified, if not through that first bit you published, at least through the discussion that followed in here, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: is it still keeping you from engaging with the code writings?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: possibly you are asking a too-big question there, to start with.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: also, are you stuck on writing or on publishing?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what are you stuck on?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: it is a signal, yes; but that "not ready" needs more qualifying really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: otoh wouldn't it be fun if he did turn around from canonical.
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, I suppose it could be argued that the root is deeper perhaps, all the way to "code is not text" vs "code IS text".
(trilema) diana_coman: hardly seems worth it though for that sort of case and I don't quite have any other clear reason for detached sig on vpatches.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-75 - mircea_popescu, I never quite understood why detached sigs for vpatches in the first place; I kind of got the idea that it was so that there is no need for sync on signing (no possible clash of the sort A and B sign independently same thing and then one needs to re-sign so as not to end with 2 versions of same vpatch?)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: how's it going?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: bvt: oh, hey, glad to hear you liked the CG map article! I had no idea you were at all interested in rendering or even graphics, huh; looking forward to your comments/article(s) on it then!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: sounds good.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: how's the feet dragging going?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ahaha, it is that reptilian eye too, isn't it? enjoy panama and do take pictures for the blog too!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... not possible.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-13#1015188 - tsk; any "preparing" of the dragging feet and other parts variety is to be logged under "worshipping stupidity" (or "wasted time" if you must) and then see at the end of the day how much you work and how much you waste-worship. If you don't count it/fail to record it, simply calculate it by ruthless subtraction but there is no time "not spent on anything" because it just ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: sure; and I really meant just sync with trinque , nothing more.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: can't hurt and it's not like it can't wait (though I see why you'd rather have it done and not hanging like that, of course).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: sadly no, I actually don't use one really (I'm just detail-oriented whether I like it or not).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: that convo linked from eulora might be of interest to you re MP's "say hi"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: why so...hm, fitful (and do use a spellchecker or something!); and give the guy first some time to react at all, first step is a more relaxed hi in and then depending on reaction, it moves forward one way or another; also, did you check with trinque as he was saying iirc he'll contact this guy, did he get around to contact him?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: new_yh|6 better here than in #eulora for the time being; what's your name?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: if there are more of those, just write them down in one article and be done with it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: apparently that's what school teaches, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you used the plural in that comment though so the above is 1; the rest?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, everything is always an unstated trade deal like that, sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahahaha, a sort of male dependopopotamus??
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thoughts-on-shrysr-leaving-younghands-and-asciilifeforms-excommunication/#comment-148 - what's with that "having been the "psychologically dependent" in more than one codependent relationship in my life." ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: talk will stil not do the writing for you, no, it has this downside indeed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and you know, it's there whenever you need it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: glad to hear it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: has talking helped at all?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: iirc there was the electrics to look into, last thing.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: no more stupid problems tolerated around, for starters.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: unrelated, re car, did you sort out fully the house? because the computer is still not built and running anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: quite possibly; but there's no such thing as "you'll be your father" mainly because - whatever similarities there might be in the genetic makeup - you still are not your father, obviously.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I think we are referring to the same cost really but I won't answer a question that is really his if he wants to answer it or not.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: look at him and learn from it; work on yourself and do the best instead of the worst, that's all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not like there's anyone perfect, you know? if it wasn't that, it would have been some other "worst of yourself", what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so why hate the live warning?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: he's possibly the best one to ask that question though, isn't he?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ahaha, I can see your point there; do note also that... hm, while he is your father, you are also your father's son, hm?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: as long as it's not an ongoing cost.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: at significant cost to you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: I don't know, fwiw I take mine for exactly what they are and don't feel any need to ask them for anything more than that really; I don't have neither specific expectations nor requests really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: my own want to keep both them and myself happy; it was impossibly, it took me that time to figure out such a simple thing and decide which part matters and which one doesn't really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: you are taking on your own shoulders quite a lot there though, to get them over their own emotional outbursts.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: resentment is just another form of "not over it" really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so they were this and that; so... what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: what is this right direction?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there was never any problem with their saying/expectations/opinions/whatevers; the only problem (and that one that kept me awake & beyond miserable for 2 weeks) was fully and entirely my own, of course, as it ever is.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: that in part with an added side of "their reaction matters strongly to me"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack, dorion the important part is whether you've made your peace with it all so that it's fully behind you rather than tripping you over unexpectedly as it seems to have happened now a bit with jfw
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: lmao; that's such a polite way to say fuck you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ahaha; people see what they know best, of course.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: sure, anything *may follow*; why is that on your mind while writing though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you consider the writing on your blog as having a conversation with your parents?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: btw, re holidays-with-mum, that was your choice of holidays, not mine, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: heh, to cite my mom : "why do you have to be so DIFFERENT from us???"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: hm, I can see it if you say "it's not worth it trying to have this conversation with them" but I don't see in any way how is it discouraging to speak honestly (and esp. the link to honesty, how??)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ah, that seems a different thing than what jfw is saying though.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but you know, none of it had anything to do with "be young again" and that's pretty much what both of you, dorion and jfw seem to ask of your parents there. Why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: fwiw I will forever remember 2 weeks of ~no sleep when I was 23. They cured me entirely of my parents though and I still think it's called being an adult.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: ah, that was ambiguous in my question - I meant why is it important to you that they see things as you do on this matter (or on any really).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and to qualify it properly: why is it more important to you than speaking your truth as you understand it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so they will see what you publish, sure; they will have one reaction or another, as they see fit, sure; you can't control their reaction anyway, nor should you; you might even predict it though if you understand them well enough for that, sure; nevertheless: why is that important to you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: it's not fully answering yet that "why is it important to you"?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014971 - dorion, was this what triggered your break from your parents?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: let me ask this a different way: why is it important to you that your parents see this?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'm all caught up with the logs here so do speak.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the cut-right-to-the-point question for you is what do you actually want from them?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014981 - oh, thanks! (and if you ever want *more* of that, just make sure to annoy me thoroughly!)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014974 - why do you need to swing between the extremes there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: sounds good.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but I know the reaction, yes; still, everyone is entitled to their reaction, whatever it might be, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014950 - bewildering things going on in #o? where, where? what did I miss? lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what /why clicked on Wednesday?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, why inhale recycled airs of others, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, it depends what one smokes, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I already had this image of you smoking a good old pipe to ponder the depths in silence while the dark and smoke creep around but now you really cemented it!
(ossasepia) diana_coman is catching up with the #o log, what a nice surprise for once.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: was there something you wanted to discuss today?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: how about talking about it, maybe it would get you unstuck faster, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: also, such cliffhanger! lolz!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: so what happened there exactly, did you just spin on the writing or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014918 - good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, good then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes how's that gales install going, did you figure out/ask re uefi or what you needed?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: at least got through that finger repulsion field! re feeling bad about it all - it depends what you do with it, otherwise by itself it doesn't do much useful, no; break + re-read + publish sounds reasonable.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what happened to you now since this is last anyone heard of you? nothing moves until all caught up by Sunday or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, *all* of Minsky is worth a few reads really but since you were interested in that specific topic.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: talking of music theory - while reviewing Minsky, I found out he actually wrote some articles on quite what I had in mind re writing/reading and music; e.g. Sonata as a Teaching Machine - worth a read.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: re work on the cruise, heh; you are so 200% good intentions, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: I think by now it might be a good idea to prioritize some comments /talk to people who published their reports re tmsr-os; because from where they are, it's been a week+ and no response at all from you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: what happened to you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: all right.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: the above ^ q for you too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, so ~when is the estimate for your catch-up ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sounds most likely; and given your earlier admission, it was probably an overdue break really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not an unusual fate for those "waiting quietly and patiently" at that; still, why u so mean to notebook!
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, I never had any trouble with year numbers; since they seem to me quite arbitrary anyway. At most I wondered on accumulated years (ie 20+ seemed rather improbable! then ..30+! lol)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: drat, wrong channel
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in his view, assets for run-time loading are best transmitted in binary, engine-specific formats.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: he does say in answer to one of my questions that he ("we") is working on a 2D vector graphics format too, OpenVGX, to be able to specify 3D geometry + camera view and then render the result as a 2D diagram.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: oh, and he sent me the link to his font rendering library for the demo which is windows only (I had seen the link and at first I didn't realise why I hadn't seen the demo - until I scrolled and found out why,namely windows only).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: at any rate, write the things on your mind first, there's no reason not to.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: did you keep a journal while away as you said?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: sounds like some slide back to old habit perhaps.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: the silence was more re blog & tmsr-os comments for people who delivered the promised articles or at least that's how I'd take it.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: let me know if you need any other info from my end.
(trilema) diana_coman: also, by now it apparetly finished whatever it had queued since it's finally quiet; so the async as you describe it seems to fit.
(trilema) diana_coman: so it's just the async unsubscribe issue remaining; sorry for the false alarm on the other bit.
(trilema) diana_coman: I looked back on previous !1 list and it seems there's no problem there actually aka indeed I had subscribed only to comments rss for trilema (weird but not the bot's fault)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ahaha, cool then!
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: I was subscribed to both articles and comments feed afaik; let me rummage through old logs as I prolly have another earlier !1 list and will give you a paste of it all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, it's the sort of learnt relaxation.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so don't let it go over time during those 2 weeks and get to see also how that works out.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: any reason why it would *not* be best?
(trilema) diana_coman: perhaps we further found some bug(s) in feedbot given the above so even more good news and fronts and all that!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion see in #t
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: writing on your own blog is among the "relaxing activities" with reading and studying Spanish, so it doesn't get entirely put on hold for 2 weeks now, does it?
(trilema) diana_coman: and uhm, now there's no trilema.com feed in the output of !1 list, neither for comments nor for posts, unless I'm somehow just not seeing it; weird stuff.
(trilema) diana_coman: by the looks of it, it's still going too, ugh.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: I gave up and unsubscribed from trilema's comments, feedbot confirmed (<feedbot> diana_coman is now unsubscribed from http://trilema.com/comments/feed/) and then 1 minute later, promptly fed me 2 more trilema comments; am I doing something wrong?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: welcome back to the ground then dorion, hopefully the bag follows too; and no rush otherwise.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: safe travel then and certainly get some rest too; glad to hear it was rejuvenating anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: wb jfw ! And it all sounds like a great vacation really, good for you. Looking forward to the photo articles too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: good; and you're welcome.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there's always some reason to push them to next week, ahem; so I'd say 2 pushes is fine, but then can't push it 3rd time.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: do note though that you keep pushing those remaining 2 articles
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, you like scheduled everything, don't you
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: was there anything else?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter, anyone else
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: btw, it's not like it has to be a meeting spec as such; you know I tend to be around from about 7pm on most days so you know, just ask then/say something, it's fine
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: the let finish part is fine, obviously.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: relatively slow, yes; and at times visibly slow, to the point I wonder if I lost you/ it's too much in one go, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: yes; preferably after you had it running and basically living proof that everything is working great.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: also, why the latency throughout?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: so perhaps once you are done, you do that & illustrate it since you have a logger running anyway, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: more to the point: what would I need to do in order to have the content of currently logged channels spit out in real time into corresponding daily articles on my blog?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: does it update in db if it's current log?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I seem to recall something else to enable a move from current display of logs.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: did you have further stuff to implement for mp-wp?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: again, extremely relevant and valid for life, not only for code.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: one important implication of that limitation of what you can find by testing is that it's *always* a much better pay off in the long term to not have to test much ie to know what it does rather than test for what it does.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: re automated testing, the idea is that you write them once but you can run them as many times as you need and that is *very* useful for next time when you change something/add something to the code.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: see, the power of a few questions; you're welcome.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: this would be the most basic stuff really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for white box testing, you'd aim in principle to cover at least once all the control and data flows in your code.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in a nutshell, for black box testing you'd partition the inputs space into whatever partitions are relevant + choose testing inputs so you cover each partition through at least one value + all boundaries (because that's the most usual case of fail)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: or do you mean how to design the tests for either?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: they tend to catch different bugs & black box frees you from what you "think/know the code should do" esp if it's your code & in some cases you can't do the white box; you can't know upfront really; if you want to choose only one approach, you'd go for white box rather than black box at all times.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: black box means considering an item as a whole (different stuff!)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: no; the approach is all the above, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: why do you say focus on black box primarily?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whatever you are interested in and you are trying to understand or assess - if you go at it by "testing", you'll have quite the same type of trouble (only probably magnified because more complex than software)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: the most useful part of this whole thing and the main reason why I went in such detail for you here is that the approach as a whole is more generally valid though, it's not just specific to software.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for both of those, there are specific strategies based essentially on heuristics of "most likely ways/places in which code breaks"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hence you design tests based *also* on the code itself
(ossasepia) diana_coman: white box means that you DO take into account the insides of whatever it is, in this case of your code
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you design tests based solely on whatever correspondence of inputs/outputs you have
(ossasepia) diana_coman: now back to black/white box because it's a simple and otherwise useful thing: black box means that you don't look inside - basically you consider it as a whole of which you are interested strictly only in inputs and outputs
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: pretty much, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the main result though is that some tests are useful (because most bugs are found through some use, basically) but then it's too much trouble to search for them through this sort of method.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if you are really curious, there are even studies re how many bugs one finds on what amount of time spent for testing (and even when having a more informed approach to testing rather than the naive one)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: however, the opposite of that (this is surely NOT broken) can *never* be found out just from testing, no matter how much you test it there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and that something useful is "this is surely broken"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's only a test that fails which tells you something useful
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, so there's a whole to say on testing alone to start with; but even beyond that, the fundamental there is essentially that a test that passes does *not* give you any information as to the correctness of the code really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: do you know what black box and white box testing are?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: not to mention that then it will get run in a different environment anyway and given current state of "software", you can't guarantee anything really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: then there is of course the slightly more complicated spec that is still very simple: program should do simple addition of integers; how are you going to thoroughly test even the *inputs* on this one?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thing is: above your population of inputs has only one item so not exactly *that* the trouble even, no; the trouble is that your code is running in a whole environment and it's not in fact as isolated of it as you'd like to think; what if it's a pointerfuck that reads nonsense on the 100001th attempt for instance?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (or rather: because otherwise wtf are we to do???)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha; statistically based on what ...assumptions? you do know that *each* statistical model in fact has some very cumbersome assumptions (although in general they are never mentioned and ~always silently assumed only, mainly because it's convenient)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: right; how many times?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you'll test that simple thing - how?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: which brings us neatly to the very problem with testing itself as an activity: say you have a very neat and simple spec, it just says program should give result A to input B
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: at any rate, if you want "thorough", you'd need to take the spec, extract all desired behaviour at the very least and then check that; there is of course further trouble caused by all sorts, not least of which...how do you actually check?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: there is even quite a large body of uhm, effort let's say, poured into what is technically called formal specification precisely with a view towards formal verification aka "as thorough as it gets when testing god dammit" ; preferably even formal *proof* of correctness (which is even pushing it further).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: anyway, next step then: since a bug is defined as above, what would "thorough testing" of some code mean?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, it's one of the usual definitions, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: aha, so your def of bug is wrt to spec: a difference between specified behaviour vs actual behaviour of your code.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: but in that case you can't test without him by your side, no?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: heh, in that case what are you even testing there? if I run it on my comp, I'll find bugs because my authority vs yours or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: unwanted by whom?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: hm, let's see then from beginning: what's a bug?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: you can improve anything by a series of steps - it just needs to be the steps that fit the cause of the trouble, not the steps that fit the result of the trouble, generally speaking, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: re bugs & testing, what was your question there to start with? because it seems more like an overall confusion tbh so not sure where to start you from on that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, I have yet to meet a single person (me included!) who has never been/can't be lazy, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: laziness is essentially just a signal like many others.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so break stuff into smaller & clearer steps and if unable /unsure of that, maybe just ask for more specific direction to get you started & anyway, until you start getting the hang of this part too
(ossasepia) diana_coman: kind of ties in with your preference for clearly stated & neatly ordered stuff, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: do you procrastinate the same on relatively simpler tasks? because it starts sounding possibly related to the "too big jump in one step" simply.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: it covers one part - it is easier to start on and therefore you start, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: hm; do/did you ever have any project/something you actually found it easy /fast to start on?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: taking the topics in order, there was the procrastination question - did you figure out anything re why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ok, just don't let it drop afterwards in that forever-started-on state
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: ah, so you aim to finish it today then?
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