mircea_popescu: yes, wealthier and larger l1. but the only way there is through talk to more people ; and pointedly not through imagining things.
mircea_popescu: i see the point of hind-front, though ideally not entirely as a time function.
mircea_popescu: people using your software that are the usual sort of idiots... you ain't got anything going there.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 02:24 ben_vulpes: not surfacing every single person capable of operating a v for subsequent filtering of whether or not they are ready to convert also yields.
trinque: speculative proposal is to have tbf do same snapping up of their l2, see what happens.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform in particular could not ransom even with entire piggy , sadly. but fortunately there are other folx with hands growing from right organ )
asciilifeform: and i suppose if other l1 similarly imprisoned but cheaper to ransom than asciilifeform , could potentially make effect
asciilifeform: rright, but point was orig 'the skilled hands are few and short time'
trinque: didn't say eat the seeds
asciilifeform: trinque: tru. but nobody's about to become mircea_popescu off what's in the tbf piggy as we know it..
asciilifeform: on the 1 occasion when shortage of coin was the burning fire, tbf stepped up and did just this.
asciilifeform: the 1 gotcha is that most trb-related items afaik constrained by scarcity of skilled l1 hands, not coin as such
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855842 << actually imho tbf performed 100% to spec even there. i fully expect tbf to be at the ~hindmost~ of all 'exciting new ideaz' adoptions, not forefront. it's a habsburg art gallery, not avant-garde.
trinque: rather than trying to think of ways to throw money directly at trb. it by itself dun want any, or anything.
asciilifeform: and there's no return from that shithole
asciilifeform: trinque: as mircea_popescu observed earlier, if we succumb to logic of 'word taint' we'll quickly turn into the speed of light people
trinque: the latter again, tainted by pantsuit stink, yet businesses do get started.
ben_vulpes: well obviously someone sees the value in it as at least a testbed, what cost to him of registering a key.
ben_vulpes: not surfacing every single person capable of operating a v for subsequent filtering of whether or not they are ready to convert also yields.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun propose to 'help' heathens somehow against will. but imho anyffig that in any way makes trb noad harder to stand up than strictly must -- yields terrain to enemy.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:40 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855812 << you can't help people against their will. there is no such thing as "powered text". all text is powerless, the power gotta be with people.
ben_vulpes: pizarro seemed a) worthwhile endeavour b) could be let fail and the experiment run again c) had good odds of rescue mission succeeding for a time.
mircea_popescu: yeah it certainly can't become the bank of china.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 02:16 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the seed funding it provided for pizarro for instance seems a very legitimate approach, "if your project has merit you get a little bit from foundation, helps other people commit." this works well in pantsuitlands too, but i suspect because it;s sound objectively.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855843 << absolutely. however i see risk of a tendency to 'lender of last resort' misbehaviors if unchecked (by whom?! forum clearly. which you address in your point re not throwing out everything the pantsuits touch.)
mircea_popescu: what's this "ensuring" in the end ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, take trilema. it's the job of http://trilema.com/2018/fetlife-the-next-derperation/ morons to a) find it ; b) read it and c) change their lives to fit ; on their own time and on their own dime. it's not fucking trilema's job to "ensure" a b or c for the morons in question.
ben_vulpes: "ensure access to the mainline set of patches" was the best i ever came up with for an operating thesis.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the seed funding it provided for pizarro for instance seems a very legitimate approach, "if your project has merit you get a little bit from foundation, helps other people commit." this works well in pantsuitlands too, but i suspect because it;s sound objectively.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:03 ben_vulpes: for that reason, largely only spending cash on hosting services. recently also a few hardware nodes. it creates work for mod6 in the vein of the monthly reports. perhaps a nutty suggestion, but it could cleanly be wound down (the charter modified), and mod6 to continue the monthly reports on his blog.
ben_vulpes: on the thread of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855797, upon meditation, tbf was willing to host kids' projects at various points. didn't, in the case of lobbes, because he didn't take funding. kids ever-declining cost next to tbfs kitty inclines me to continue considering these projects.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:04 ben_vulpes: it also carves off an unsightly imho pantsuit wart upon the side of the republic, a "non-profit organization" with names and caftans etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855799 << twasn't obvious it is substantially a wart. i mean, if we end up cutting off everything the pantsuit attempt or attempterd historically to steal the trappings of, we'd be left without words.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as for 'premium' noad access, recall how the mircea_popescu 'trbi' thread was born. ( classical btc offers no sweet pill for how to reward node operators. any attempt to charge for 'gets mined faster' inevitably reduces to a game the miners can themselves win, cutting out middlemen )
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:01 ben_vulpes: by and large i saw the responsibility to ensure that the reference bitcoin client source stayed available to the republic, although at the time i recall a more "to everyone" flavor in my own thinking.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << i think this narrowed down over time in everyone's mind, as the shocking incapacity of "the everyone" to step up to the plate became ever more enshrined in experience.
asciilifeform: whereas when somebody throws coin into a prb wallet, for any reason whatsoever, whether because he is idjit or because we made it harder to avoid, that's coin into usg coffers.
asciilifeform: if idjit breaks it, he can do no harm thereby that prb does not already do; if he runs a valid node, it contributes to strength of the net.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i see no gain from putting any obstacle in front of anyone, heathen, chinese, martian, good, evil, who wants to run trb .
ben_vulpes: is there some fetlife for nerds funnel under optimization?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's already pretty much as 'gated' as anyhing gets, already to build it heathen must just about change religions
ben_vulpes: mm, i didn't mean to suggest 'republic only' trb net. it is however a pretty sane client for the extant network, and perhaps there is value in gating access to such a gem from teh hoi polloi. what with trinque's impending hotwallet patches and his demonstration of their value with trb services, the gem will become only of more value.
asciilifeform: can't replace the thing with 'republic only' trbi , not without some yet-unfathomed breakthrough, or, idk, if mircea_popescu takes over brazil, or, whoknows, catastrophic chernobyl that fully demolishes the classical btc net
asciilifeform: the heart of the matter is that nobody cancelled http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ theorem.
ben_vulpes: i do not advocate that tbf hide the sauce away, dun fear
asciilifeform: and yes if there were some magical way to get errybody who benefits from tbf and ergo working btc net, to put into the piggy, it'd be splendid, thing could fund even such things as flotillae of noads, or even trbi dev, etc, whoknows. but there is no magic. and it is a lucky thing that tbf in fact has the coin with which to do the bare minimum and host patches ( not on shitazon! jurov ! ) and handful of reliable nodes.
asciilifeform: the continued convertibility of btc into saecular goods, e.g. rack space, is not separable from healthy 'ecology' sadly.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if heathendom drifts far enuff into prbism, as things are currently we're blockless
asciilifeform: the tithe. ( yes problem that currently nobody's raking in megacoinz and has what to tithe. but the principle is sound. )
ben_vulpes: inner popscu suggests "what, as if its used by anyone outside the republic anyways? if joe blow wants a sane client (which republicans should be mentioning in their blogs etc), he can join the republic and ask for the vpatches." but perhaps i'm undercalibrated.
asciilifeform: and incidentally the orig funding model, in case folx forgot, is http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:01 ben_vulpes: by and large i saw the responsibility to ensure that the reference bitcoin client source stayed available to the republic, although at the time i recall a more "to everyone" flavor in my own thinking.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855058 << as to this, the initial release (this weekend) will use gnupatch. I tried to design the thing so that I can swap out the patcher for my own afterwords. eventually my own mcilroy should make its way in.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855654 << hey trinque, I plan to have this for you by the end of the weekend. hope that works
asciilifeform: otoh whether to work it is entirely board's, i.e. mod6 & ben_vulpes decision, not mine, i am not on tbf board
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: imho there is nuffin pantsuit at all about it, and it worked a+++ for entire 4y it's been around.
trinque: yeh, this is why I prefer strapping myself to a business requirement for trb working well, rather than joining up on TBF
ben_vulpes: (elsewhere, saws buzz, coats of poly are applied, a decade of life-dross triaged and arrangements made to ship the most-valued and useful posessions across the continent continue...)
ben_vulpes: it also carves off an unsightly imho pantsuit wart upon the side of the republic, a "non-profit organization" with names and caftans etc.
ben_vulpes: this has the advantage of aligning tbf with how things actually work in the republic, as driven forward by the hands of those doing the work.
ben_vulpes: for that reason, largely only spending cash on hosting services. recently also a few hardware nodes. it creates work for mod6 in the vein of the monthly reports. perhaps a nutty suggestion, but it could cleanly be wound down (the charter modified), and mod6 to continue the monthly reports on his blog.
ben_vulpes: by and large i saw the responsibility to ensure that the reference bitcoin client source stayed available to the republic, although at the time i recall a more "to everyone" flavor in my own thinking.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 00:33 trinque: first thing is to define what the foundation is. steward of patches/seals, ML, yes, what else?
mircea_popescu: is there any objection to this, incidentally ? letting trinque be a sort of one man cuntoo foundation ?
mircea_popescu: but the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855774 point is sound, guy's gonna have a lot on his plate.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 00:24 asciilifeform: trinque: do you have a subscription model in the works ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855775 << was the whole idea, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850988
asciilifeform: so possibly ought to be starting point, and if need clarification, to then ask mod6 / ben_vulpes .
trinque: first thing is to define what the foundation is. steward of patches/seals, ML, yes, what else?
asciilifeform: to date i haven't conceived of how to make trb into a subscription service ( my 1 attempt at the problem was the 'wires' item ) but this should not discourage others
asciilifeform: trinque: i.e. the item currently in use, where !!pay x y ?
asciilifeform: trinque: do you have a subscription model in the works ?
trinque: as it stands the deedbot wallet project is a hand-cranked charity I run, really want to see that thing move towards paid subscription services before I take on something else.
asciilifeform: mod6: i concur with the nomination
asciilifeform: imho tbf is the single most productive collaboration we've had here to date, without exaggeration
asciilifeform successfully, if painfully, dissuaded the participants from regressing into heathendom versiontronics
asciilifeform: without rock-solid trb, there is no bitcoin , at least not in any shape i'd particularly care to be connected with.
mircea_popescu: i mean, let's not get too anachronistic, most of the things that are "forever held true and known" today have been invented last wednesday ; at the time tbf was invented, none of the notions of collaboration meanwhile spawned out of v usage were even apprehended. not even a glimmer in the lords' eyes...
mod6: People contribute, and do things. It would be very nice to have more consistant help with testing and other things. It hasn't been too bad just doing it myself, but with Pizarro in the picture (esepcially when was acting manager), having to do it all was hard.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho thing's quite key to the practicality of errything else we do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc it was kinda chartered with carte blanche, "do whatever, just do". the way history flew it worked out as a sort of "holder of trb project" pretty much yes.
mod6: Overall, yes. I think we need to determine if the entire thing is worthwhile.
mircea_popescu: mod6 do you want to name someone to join into the chairdom ?
mod6: I used to collaborate much more with the man, but he's been afk for quite some time.
asciilifeform: ( imho -- it's a preservation proj , to keep the thing going until trbi etc )
mircea_popescu: are you practically solo chair these days or do you hold meetings with ben_vulpes and so on ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: not at all. I'm proud to do the work.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and wouldja rather be doing sumthing else ? << Yeah, I think four years is enough, I think someone else should take over.
mircea_popescu: i kinda have in the back of my mind this impression that poor shane's ended up stuck with a large number of loose ends to juggle.
asciilifeform: is why i left the q for mod6 .
mircea_popescu: in principle. but our values are very much in the vein of debirocratization, after all. somehow i fear it's more of a haskellism than anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: currently not clear to me how there'd be less work if trb were 'mod6 proj' instaed of 'foundation'
asciilifeform: mod6: and wouldja rather be doing sumthing else ?
mircea_popescu: hey, whole republic is built out of trying out the civilised things various empires came up with. some fruit better than others.
asciilifeform: iirc we did the 'civilized' thing where chair is 1 d00d, treasurer -- another, there's at least a nominal procedure for handover, etc , mircea_popescu suggested it and asciilifeform et al saw it as Right Thing
mircea_popescu: maybe with some extra overhead he conceivably doesn'\t even need, in the latter case.
mircea_popescu: the issue however, is that if mod6 does all the work he does ~as mod6 ~ or as ~the chair of bitcoin foundation~ in the end makes little difference, it's still the exact same work.
asciilifeform: and yes i'd luvv as much as errybody else if a battallion of civilized folx were to materialize out of somewhere and donate, or even run nodes. but they are evidently scarce, mircea_popescu beat the subject of 'sane people ~extinct' just about todeath
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855681 << the piggy afaik does thus far exactly what it was needed for, which is to pay for civilized hosting so the patches even have where to sit. imho anyffing on top of this is bonus.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:40 mircea_popescu: nevermind the pissing off, that's not the issue. this foundation item, it got a nest egg from me, and some more donations from other people back in the day. it didn't manage to turn these into either a growing stream of more donations or a growing stream of activity.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855679 << heathendom is fulla parasites who are happy to use bitcoin without contributing so much as a farthing to keeping the 1 and only working client going, noose at 11
asciilifeform: it is only in heathendom that 'work' equals 'massive flood of coad'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i disagree, btw, that 'epsilon', march-current is when the aggression thing was deployed & tested to exhaustion, and gave proper ~realtime block propagation for 1st time since trb birth
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:32 mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak".
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855663 << i'ma hold off on further patches, even experimentals, until regrind, if mircea_popescu says 'hold'
mod6: Yeah, I thought the thing was fixed and the archives were moved, too. But may have been mistaken.
trinque: you actually have to set up the dork CDN in front of it yourself though
mircea_popescu: which w/e, i recall this was the case a while back, cheap instance or w/e.
mircea_popescu: what do you get if you dig therealbitcoin.org ?
asciilifeform: yea but wtf! why does he have a liquishitflare in there !
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:22 trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bjyXE/?raw=true << not so weird, these all point to cloudfront, amazon's cdn thing
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:17 trinque: asciilifeform: what do you have for curl 'http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20180923/mod6_excise_hash_truncation.vpatch?sha1=9abdb060135507152b9a5c7c3b8b98966266c5bd'
mircea_popescu: if i have to run a balance sheet putting the active on one side and passive=delayed-keccak-adoption on the other side, it's coming out in the red as it stands.
mircea_popescu: nevermind the pissing off, that's not the issue. this foundation item, it got a nest egg from me, and some more donations from other people back in the day. it didn't manage to turn these into either a growing stream of more donations or a growing stream of activity.
mod6: Maybe it is time to give someone else a turn at the helm of the Foundation, or move to not have a foundaiton at all.
mod6: Alright. If we disband it, what do we do with the coins?
mircea_popescu: not even entirely sure what precisely we'd be missing if there was no foundation at all, right off.
mod6: I actually would have figured you'd want me to ensure a smooth transition with the correct tooling. Not jump into something before we're ready.
mircea_popescu: but as far as the foundation is concerned -- if all it does (ALL IT DOES!!!) is stand up to tell me "oh, we can't follow the keccak because reasons" ima put an end to it in short order.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 00:27 mircea_popescu: does the thing have salespeople / funnel up yet ?
mod6: Anyway, if someone wants to take over my role at the foundation, please let me know.
mod6: Only thing I've been held back by is lack of time as I've been way overwhelemed by all of the Pizarro work.
mircea_popescu: for one thing -- make the fucking thing, and for the other thing -- last month "oh, we have no way to contribute because -- summer days".
mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak".
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 hour and 19 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html and the predecessor ( mod6's http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000311.html ) into 'experimental'
mircea_popescu: only existed there AT ALL because nobody cared what is there at some indistinct point in the past.
mircea_popescu: now that we're done with alf's wrecking of the naming convention, gotta deal with mod6 's wrecking of the historical flow ? keccak isn't some fucking optional package on top of mainline usg-provided sha.
mircea_popescu: seems to me the only kind of newb this is is a very old hand determined to sabotage the process. newbs will just take the state of the art.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 22:54 mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855609 << what newbs are these ? the sort of newbs that press from v but not have keccak ?
mircea_popescu: * About to connect() to therealbitcoin.org port 80 (#0)
trinque: that will serve the item if it has it cached, or will otherwise request from the backend, which is apparently faulty
trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bjyXE/?raw=true << not so weird, these all point to cloudfront, amazon's cdn thing
trinque: curling instead with the IP works fine over here
trinque: asciilifeform: what do you have for curl 'http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20180923/mod6_excise_hash_truncation.vpatch?sha1=9abdb060135507152b9a5c7c3b8b98966266c5bd'
asciilifeform: trinque: are you behind some peculiar heathen firewall or wat
mod6: jurov: Can you give us an update on all of the above ^?
trinque: 161.0.121.248 << this appears to be the pizarro box, eh?
mod6: I'm not sure where the mailman front end is hosted.
asciilifeform: where the fuck is that thing hosted ?
mod6: trinque: are you having trouble with the ML?
asciilifeform: trinque: they load fine here... do you get eggog ?
trinque sees, was searching for whether not being able to download attachments from ML also slipped by him
asciilifeform: trinque: manifest is done, i built on it in the experimental item linked earlier
mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs.
mod6: I've even got another vpatch I'm about to submit too. Was testing it lastnight, in fact.
mod6: No, the manifest was published last week, trinque.
trinque: I have patches myself which are sitting on the sideline waiting for the manifest, which I was under the impression you're working on
mod6: I want users to be able to get a vtron, as they do now, with v.pl, then build trb in very much the same way they are able to today.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already. << I'm probably not going to do this until there is a vtron that supports keccak.
mircea_popescu: d the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied
mircea_popescu: "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbi
mod6: asciilifeform: ah cool, thank for the post. I'll read/try it when I get a chance.
mod6 reads the log
mircea_popescu: meanwhiel in other soviet art, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Lincoln_Douglas_Debates_1958_issue-4c.jpg
mircea_popescu: the current situation is unseemly.
mircea_popescu: the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already.
asciilifeform: prelude to actually rebaking the coad that does the address-collectin' (so to prefer folx who actually supply blox, to the dead weight people )
asciilifeform: this experiment will work 9000x better once there's several trb folx other than asciilifeform doing it, cuz learning 'block x came from... this-here trb noad' dun tell me much, it'd be useful to know where ~he~ got it, etc
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to snarf http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html and the predecessor ( mod6's http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000311.html ) into 'experimental'
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers!!! http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html << .
asciilifeform: hrm, pasting the txt worked...
asciilifeform: and i used the www box !!
asciilifeform: grr jurov , 'Signature verification on clearsigned text failed, discarding. Review the message in your sent mail folder for wordwrap or similar mutilations of clearsigned text.'
BingoBoingo: And in the Encouraging News department: Trump can win in Uruguayo Courts Too! https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/quedo-sin-efecto-demanda-laboral-en-uruguay-contra-los-trump-201892912227
mircea_popescu: mod6 http://thewhet.net/2018/09/the-appropriately-proportioned-ballad-of-chimichurri/ !!11
mod6: I literally can load the entire block chain in like 8-9 days.
mod6: I think you must have an iron stomach -- the ability to publish such specimens of humans and not barf outright.
mod6 is testing the phexdigit fix regrind
mod6: and i kinda like there is competition here
BingoBoingo: To be clear this isn't a pdf merely filled out from the pdf reader. It is filled out and interacts(maybe interacted) with their backend system from pdf reader.
BingoBoingo: Well, the all time low of systems I interacted with is pre-Uruguay when I went to Southern Illinois University for my graduate philosophy stint. The independent university department had an interactive pdf web form everyone had to use to register for the sticker to keep their vehicles from getting kidnapped by University Parking.
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, the local telecom monopoly where i get me fiberz bought what remained of aol. so finally the ancient nightmare is in a sense troo, asciilifeform is 'subscribed to aol' )
BingoBoingo: No, I mean descent from. There is still lower than AOL.
asciilifeform: could be worse, i suppose they could all have been on aol...
asciilifeform: ( i dun have a corps of janissaries to fetch letters from hitler containing the ssl magic of-the-day )
asciilifeform: i actually bothered to peek in the logs on that box, it gets confronted with ssl crapola handshakes from the receiver's end and evidently doesn't spit out the hitler-approved answer
asciilifeform: ~0 to do with spam in the usual sense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure their actual objective was simply to herd the remaining folx who can't entirely get away from emailism, into the google/microshit corrals
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the nonsense of keeping lists of enumerated badness that a) are obscure and b) are poorly maintained... srsly, random costa rican home ip ? these people live for what, 4 months in the same place ?
asciilifeform: the jwzs destroyed emailism 100%.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 21:31 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz, "* You are banned from this server- You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information," YEAR OLD listing in some obscure bs "database".
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 23:56 asciilifeform discussed subj with asciilifeform's brother, who answered 'whaddayamean, what size packet, at $defunctgamesco we only ever used 1480, for decade, ideal'
asciilifeform: 1492, 'sailed the oceans blue...'
asciilifeform: heh if we had the giant fpga..
asciilifeform: ( hence why i put that 512 as the initial guess for Payload_Size )
asciilifeform: possibly i misread http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855464 , but gotta point out that the padding is not somehow separable from the message prior to decrypt, it is 'in' that final 4096bit output of the modexp
asciilifeform: where 'result will *always* be a block of 4096 bits (512 octets). Each such resulting block can hold at most 1960 bits (245 octets) of the original message' etc
asciilifeform: ( and pretty sure we had the thread )
mircea_popescu: the most serene republic of halvsies.
mircea_popescu: much like with bitcoin you're throwing away half the energy.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 21:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855353 << actually the winning conjunction here is that a) rsa message size is capped and b) udp packets are capped at ~same size. this is rapidly becoming a case of 4096 bit keys and 2048 bit packets and sayonara.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855437 << the headache is that a 4kb-key sig is ~4kb...
BingoBoingo: Mocky: It is a possibilitit. The street dogs here are more reliable than many of the bipeds.
mircea_popescu: considering the fucktarded shah of brunei, even, had the most ridiculous problems with women vaguely reminiscent of us army grunt.
mircea_popescu: and for all the arabic pretense, i'd be somewhat surprised if there's one guy in the whole country whose harem can toe to toe with mine.
mircea_popescu: their problem is the population, consisting of a half black slaves, and the other half donkey fuckers, neither of which possessed of enough sense to come out of a paper bag if it rained scissors.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 17:00 Mocky: from appearances, qa version has similar "looks better to approvers if mega bucks will be invested" but also they are trying to 'silicon valley in Doha' so maybe some room at the 'bottom'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855401 << fuck them. they have oddles of money they have no fucking clue what to do with. last fucking problem is taking money to qatar.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:56 Mocky: re: ice40 x250 and other projects: If I get a toe hold in Qatar, they have a 'free zone' to entice foreign R&D and tech startups which permits a new company to have 100% foreign owners, 0% tax on profits, duty free import/export. But requires them to like you and what you're trying to do.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, managed to mount a " ", which is now unmountable.
mircea_popescu: could stack these infinitely.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz, "* You are banned from this server- You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information," YEAR OLD listing in some obscure bs "database".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855353 << actually the winning conjunction here is that a) rsa message size is capped and b) udp packets are capped at ~same size. this is rapidly becoming a case of 4096 bit keys and 2048 bit packets and sayonara.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:08 mircea_popescu: and the general point is udp does not belong.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 14:41 mircea_popescu: udp is the problem atm.
asciilifeform: to mathematize : if the validity of a received datum can depend not only on past , but on ~future~ data, you have a 'to allcomers' ram giveaway. precisely like the 'orphanages' etc
asciilifeform: one of the dozen foundational idjicies of the arpa people , was permitting 'allcomers' to clog up routing tables with state.
asciilifeform: i grasp that sometimes cannot avoid stateful protocol, but the state belongs in the multi-opteron pc running the user proggy, not in the 32kB of misfortunate routers along the way
asciilifeform: udp is in fact quite popular for ddos, and the fragging mechanism that drags folx into supporting stateful reassembly is the major enabler there
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:33 mircea_popescu: but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was prolly thinking of the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218223 threads
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:13 asciilifeform: i for one would rather have no frag reassembly at all if writing ip stack. not only b/c complexity but also this.
mircea_popescu: hey there.
asciilifeform: in other noose, BingoBoingo's crate seems to be moving
asciilifeform: ( these already , not counting i suppose mircea_popescu's chix, cannot escape anywhere, the 'education' mutilated'em into permanent usaschwitz inmates )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re the loans lulz -- i regularly wonder when they'll dispense with the pretense and finally herd the debtors into work gulag
Mocky: from appearances, qa version has similar "looks better to approvers if mega bucks will be invested" but also they are trying to 'silicon valley in Doha' so maybe some room at the 'bottom'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Uruguay's cost mega-moolah AND imports USG/EU pantsuitism absent on the other side of free-zone border wall
Mocky: yeah, gotta find some people to talk to there
BingoBoingo: Mocky: Uruguay has a similar "freezone" system, gotta read the fine print
Mocky: they seem keen on most new tech, and particularly comms tech
Mocky: re: ice40 x250 and other projects: If I get a toe hold in Qatar, they have a 'free zone' to entice foreign R&D and tech startups which permits a new company to have 100% foreign owners, 0% tax on profits, duty free import/export. But requires them to like you and what you're trying to do.
mod6: *nod* makes sense. Once I get all of the info back I need, I'll send around a board comm so we're all on the same page, and will list some possible options.
asciilifeform: if BingoBoingo doesn't pull off the ransoming of the crate, it will have to happen asap
mod6: I've asked a number of times in both castles, and a few individuals direclty (whom previously said they'd be willing); no takers yet -- however, still waiting on some info back before we're on our own. Will let you know.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'll do it if absolutely nobody else wants to , but stretched rather thin, so give it coupla days if you can
asciilifeform: and sits down in budget. ( nuke subs are prolly out, for the time being )
asciilifeform: mod6: if there were a place within 500km of BingoBoingo with sane customs regime, he'd be there already, neh.
BingoBoingo: 500km is Brasil, Buenos Aires, the Atlantic Ocean, and Paraguay
asciilifeform: but i suspect not a winner, they do what, 500 km.
BingoBoingo: End then we'd have to strip down tcp over carrier pigeon to get UDP over carrier pigeon
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the tricky bit , as i understand, with those, is that they only work in 1 dir