BingoBoingo: to work on the Pizarro marketing problem. Recently there have been some promising contacts from marketing efforts, but I haven't been converting yet.
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> how do you see that working before pizarro starves? << I worry. The more I think about the marketing and trying to make a plan for marketing I worry. I am in the unhappy position of being out of my depth on the marketing problem, repeating my concerns about my lack of marketing prowess, trying to apply advice as I can while juggling other concerns, and not getting any feedback on incentives that can bring other people in
diana_coman: and in any case it'd be at best avoiding the problem rather than solving it so more agony down the line in all likelihood
diana_coman: could pizarro even get in the green just by reducing the pipe? sharing rack sounds more like killing pizarro by definition
BingoBoingo: If the marketing can't start catching fish. On this point I am working on a response to diana_coman. The short of it is I want help, and I want to know what kind of incentive can bring in some hands to help with marketing.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's the problem of what happens in March-April when that runs out.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:55 trinque: how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886483 << it can't possibly be the problem the dc's kicking him out, he just got a decent chunk wired there. i rather expect he's running into tyhe problem of what to eat himself.
mircea_popescu: but in other keks, this could be taken as a "shutdown" a la republique.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:49 trinque: trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886480 << that's not particularly useful, seeing how... it'd necessarily mean ppl other than him going into the rack, yes ? kinda kills the value propositioin
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 16:45 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884603 << BingoBoingo i'd ~really~ like to hear what is current plan for gettin' heathen custom, so as to finally get the hell out of the red. asciilifeform dun have a massive treasure chest that can run pizarro 'on battery' 4evah (hopefully not surprising, this)
diana_coman: I fail to find also a continuation to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884838 - > was there some discussion on this going forwards?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I am presently hand cranking the database walking.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 19:39 mircea_popescu: why not just enumerate the userbase and message them all ?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I am posting and prodding forums manually, and those are not the only two. Those examples were selected for their relative visibilty. I am getting some noises in response to my fishing now. I plan to meet one fellow from one forum next week while he's passing through the city.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, I re-read now that post with the idea in mind that it's meant to be the "fleshed out" version - it reads like a reasonable summary but I still fail to see the fleshed out plans going forward and esp re "try to drink the ocean" ; I followed the links and noticed the posts but I still get the impression those are only a few and/or manually done, is that correct?
diana_coman: I still think it's a mess basically and I wrote it there like that with bullet points precisely because I know I will keep tripping over this so at least I know where to go to ...
mircea_popescu: putting all sorts of things in there specifically so later on people don't run into "omfg retards why the fuck would they do it like that!!!" sorta issues
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886387 << hopefully can just reuse item. that's the idea at least.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 18:03 diana_coman: so that'd be at least the "encapsulated" part explained
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 17:48 asciilifeform: ( re 'how many witnesses', see diana_coman's article, it reviews the necessary maffs, i.e. P(yer prime aint a prime and you die) == (1/4)^n, where n is # of witness )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886376 << with some caveats as to how "unrelated" (in the m-r sense of the term) those candidates must be, as it's entirely possible to generate an infinite set of lying witnesses for any composite number.
mircea_popescu: the machine is expected to give ~correct~ outputs in all cases ; not to give "outputs which may be meaningful if the user knew how to context-interpret them"
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 02:28 asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 15:13 asciilifeform: imho arg can be made for it being the gcd-invoker's responsibility to know what to do with the output
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886328 << absolutely not ; as a philosophical matter this is akin to asking for "the machine to extend classes implicitly" aka both dwim & http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1043874 rolled into one.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886306 << returning gcd as 0 is an error message by itself, the usual set is [1,inf)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't know that there's anything wrong with returning gcd of 0,0 as 0. in my abstract mental model wherein 1 is a divisor of all numbers, gcd 0,0 =1, and furthermore 0 can never be a divisor of anything ; but this purely set-driven problem is inconsequential in boole's alt-world afaak.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 04:26 asciilifeform: meanwhile via #asciilifeform : http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/building-the-eulora-client-with-gentoo.html << apparently d00d cleanly baked client on cuntoo
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, specifically and a bit of follow-up on trinque's point above: pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ has this tiny paragraph starting with "action items" - was/is that fleshed out anywhere? << I flesh out Pizarro's situation here http://bingology.net/2019/01/11/more-lessons-learned-pizarro-entering-2019/ I am hoping to get feedback from the Pizarro board (asciilifeform and mod6) and this forum. trinque is the first person to
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, no select script on pizarro's blog? << I'll get it set up in the next couple days.
diana_coman: at any rate, the q was exactly that: a q for clarification; not finding fault
mircea_popescu: "There isn't, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active." or how did that go.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hmm basically a client can end up "making an account" with Eve and not even knowing it/getting then stuck/receiving unexpected messages at next attempt with legitimate server; I'm sure a client can basically recover/notice in the end but it pushes a bit more complexity on client
mod6: Which wp didn't touch the <dir> tag and replace with < and >, and for whatever reason, <dir> seems to play with the text formatting. So after I replaced, it seems aligned properly now.
mod6: The problem was, in the mega-diff, there were two places that had lines like this: " -datadir=<dir> \t\t " + _("Specify data directory\n") +
mod6: Also, it seems that my mega-diff in the blog somehow slightly-skews the justification to the right by a few characters. I'll try to remedy that. In the mean time, if people want to just read the raw text post instead, I've made that available here as well: http://www.mod6.net/2019/January/13/keccak_regrind_noUTF8.txt
mod6: But this is what the code says: <img src='http://blog.mod6.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' />
mod6: Mind you, the entire thing is wrapped in <pre>, so that's perhaps why it still shows '8)'.
mod6: lol, this is pretty great. So I was just looking at the post, and I was thinking "why does my 8th item in the overview seems spaced in one extra space?", and then I looked at the published source.
mod6: Thank you in advance to all who read my blog post and make it all the way through. It's a bit lengthy, but most of it may be fairly obvious to the initiated.
mod6: While Republicans are reviewing the above, I'm going to continue working on my TRB HOWTO updates -- I think it's pretty much finished, but I want to test it first before I start handing it around for testing by all. After this, and blessings of the regrind from TMSR~, I'll put a date on when thebitcoin.foundation site will roll over to the keccak vtree exclusively.
mod6: http://blog.mod6.net/?p=26 << Here's my TRB Keccak Regrind blog post. I have a tarball linked very near the bottom that contains my reground trb keccak vtree, as well as seals for each. These are posted so one may test with these (I need the help!).
trinque: you've got my support to make whatever changes you need to capacity to get more time to think on the rest.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Please continue to weigh in. The present lack of weighing in on Pizarro by the forum is concerning.
trinque: at any rate, let me know if you actually want me to weigh in on how to keep it alive. if not, let me know when you want to scrap my server for me, and we can split the proceeds. dead in april without a plan in january is dead now.
BingoBoingo: This may be the case. I am very wary about pursuing that avenue without the board and input from all major Pizarro customers.
trinque: I don't see why you'd change your pricing at all if it turns out nobody's using the capacity.
trinque: BingoBoingo: next thing to do would be to instrument the router and see what you're actually using
trinque: how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"?
BingoBoingo: trinque: I don't have concrete plans. The major part of the DC cost is pipe rather than rack. Renegotiating for less pipe with the datacenter would change the costs we are basing our colocation price off of as well.
trinque: trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 09:59 spyked: and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6)
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886460 << Ah, well done, Sir. I've added your name and host's IP to the list of Advertised Republican Nodes. Cheers!
billymg: the* before part
lobbesbot: billymg: The operation succeeded.
billymg: !Q later tell hanbot mp-wp patches have been updated: http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ -- the only "\ No newline at end of file" strings you should find in .svg refs patch are from before part of the diff (i.e. file diffed had no newline at the end)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 08:36 diana_coman: mod6, the V check post looks good; maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ?
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886456 << Thanks for reading & feedback diana_coman! I'm working to port over the old-ones as I can. I'll find a temporary solution in the mean time.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather not grandfather the current bitcoin wallet approach, time-tested as it might be. but this problem will recur (no later than "wut do wallet" in any case). so...
mircea_popescu: this leaves open the "wut do about that encryption key".
mircea_popescu: ad interim the draft is, that the client stores all the keys (rsa, serpent, whatever) one per line, the rsa ones in republican format, the rest unspecified as of yet, in a file called keys.tmsr encrypted by the rsa key of the client.
mircea_popescu: this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship.
mircea_popescu: in other news : i'm not entirely current here, but diana_coman does seem to have neatly resolved the ada-cpp linking conundrums. going on which theory, the next step we're upon is what to do with the keys.
mircea_popescu: spyked feedbot additions process usually goes the other way ; but in this case sure.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Apologies for the startling
spyked: and in other tasks in my queue, I propose adding billymg and mod6's blogs to feedbot (I'll do that tomorrow if there are no objections)
spyked: and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:30 mircea_popescu: spyked is evidently trying, hence feedbot, but evidently having trouble reconciling saeculum, which i'm going to let stand as such on the grounds that he's new -- even though experience shows that as a dubious idea [for all the eg one could possibly need witness how asciilifeform 's still in the swamp, so many years later].
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884617 <-- ftr, I agree 100% with this assessment. the last 4 months (at least) of my life have been a rollercoaster, and I'm just beginning to settle down into an arrangement where I can set goals without getting preempted at every corner. my current goal is to have a schedule posted by the end of the month, in the same style as http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 ,
diana_coman: mod6, the V check post looks good; maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ?
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 00:03 BingoBoingo: Attn: The Pizarro has rebooted, this was first noticed by mod6. A quick trip to the datacenter showed both power supplies were had their happy green lights lit, the ambient air was conditioned with cool everywhere outside the hot aisle, and the server's chassis was not particularly warm. attn: asciilifeform
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886446 -> this made me jump at first to check on S.MG's servers with Pizarro; BingoBoingo please make those announcements clear from the start as to what services precisely are/have been affected
BingoBoingo: Ah yes, just the shared hosting server
mod6: The Foundation's colocated box there is not impacted -- this seems to be isolated to a problem with UY1 in particular.
mod6: Specifically, UY1 - the shared hosting environment.
BingoBoingo: Attn: The Pizarro has rebooted, this was first noticed by mod6. A quick trip to the datacenter showed both power supplies were had their happy green lights lit, the ambient air was conditioned with cool everywhere outside the hot aisle, and the server's chassis was not particularly warm. attn: asciilifeform
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 15:19 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886075 -> on additional digging, static lib apparently does have libnameinit so yest I was looking for the wrong thing
BingoBoingo: American Apparel was built by taking coeds. Amazon was built on retiree RV cities seasonally wintering at their distribution centers
BingoBoingo: Judging by the pictures it looks like she was a tanner more silicone'd version of his domestic partner
asciilifeform: hrm, could've sworn there was a moar recent mircea_popescu thread re same
asciilifeform: err, nm, lol, they're same thing, asciilifeform prolly oughta go to bed
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 17:48 asciilifeform: ( re 'how many witnesses', see diana_coman's article, it reviews the necessary maffs, i.e. P(yer prime aint a prime and you die) == (1/4)^n, where n is # of witness )
asciilifeform pictures convo, 'hm we send the n-th d00d to trade with the natives' 'and..?' 'skull came back, cannibals ate' 'who wants to go next'
asciilifeform: lol dafuq was he doing in the reich
asciilifeform: ( i dun have a trademark on the phrase, naturally, but still a lul )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz dun see the orig statement as ' asciilifeform presumes that diana_coman is dummkopf and problem is trivial, asciilifeform can do it with 1 hand '. i simply dun like to see people sitting stuck, is all.
diana_coman: so that'd be at least the "encapsulated" part explained
diana_coman: so far I can tell that the static lib has the huge disadvantage that one needs then to link with it everything but the kitchen sink to bring in all it needs from ada runtime
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 16:49 asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you're utterly stumped, i can allocate some cycles to the problem tomorrow -- with mircea_popescu's permission ( i swore to him that i will not embroil meself in matters euloric , recall )
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886349 -> better spent on ffa, surely; thanks for the offer anyway though!
asciilifeform: 'peh' is intended as a working, weaponized demonstration of the 'specificity of diddling' principle. (but perhaps this was obvious to errybody.)
asciilifeform: i'ma include a few obvious approaches as example tapes, but it is NOT the intention that anyone use'em as-found.
asciilifeform: a 'graduate' of ffa (i.e. fella who ~read~ the thing, as it was intended to be read, and fit-in-head) will have no trouble writing his particular variant of correct prime generator for his particular type of key.
asciilifeform: consider from pov : there is no particular reason for enemy to know precisely ~how~ you baked the primes for yer privkey.
asciilifeform: ( re 'how many witnesses', see diana_coman's article, it reviews the necessary maffs, i.e. P(yer prime aint a prime and you die) == (1/4)^n, where n is # of witness )
asciilifeform: and this was forced by the irons ( it's evenly divisible by all known bus widths )
asciilifeform: the only 'magic number' in ffa is the concession that all FZ must be at least 256bits long
asciilifeform: ( he can use 'G' as litmus, or not use, can use 16 witnesses or 666, etc, rather than being forced into a particular scheme )
asciilifeform: this allows 'P' to be a constant-spacetime operation, and hands the decision of 'just how important to constant-time the whole prime generation' to the author of the tape.
asciilifeform: per the ffa plan, 'P' command will take two numbers from the stack, a candidate integer and a witness. author of pcode tape determines how many witnesses to use, he iterates by generating witnesses and calling P repeatedly as many times as he wants
Mocky: is the number of witnesses to be a knob or fixed?
asciilifeform: anyway i'ma post the actual physical measurement once i have it, but i dun expect it will be far from this chalkboard figure.
asciilifeform: whereas the gcd litmus ( gcd(candidate, primorial) ) costs 1ms .
asciilifeform: take for example diana_coman's system , where 16 witnesses are used. ( i'd use moar, but let's go with the example. ) so if we're generating 2048b primes (for 4096b rsa mod), per ch.14b timings on asciilifeform's iron this costs ~2.9s per modexp, and thereby ~93sec per m-r procedure.
asciilifeform: this means that the use of gcd litmus very muchly wins.
asciilifeform: btw per asciilifeform's chalkboard, the physical cost of constanttime m-r is ~equal to that of (2 modexps of the given width) x (number of witnesses) .
asciilifeform: ... or i suppose if yer still stumped next friday night, then.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you're utterly stumped, i can allocate some cycles to the problem tomorrow -- with mircea_popescu's permission ( i swore to him that i will not embroil meself in matters euloric , recall )
asciilifeform: but i cannot yet say conclusively. diana_coman is at the bleeding edge of this q.
asciilifeform: last time i touched the subj with own hands, i concluded that elaborator isn't even permitted in static ada lib.
diana_coman: because in the docs it's claimed that non-ada main should be with the encapsulated-lib version, ugh
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, but is the one generated for static lib the same? or wtf is with the encapsulated-shit then?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if your 'main' is a c/cpp proggy , you gotta trigger the elaborator 'by hand', regardless of which type of lib your ada coad is in, afaik.
diana_coman: but now I'm confused on whether *that* is enough or not (standalone thingie claims it takes care of everything needed for elaboration, correctly)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 14:14 diana_coman: my trajectory in hitting walls on this was precisely that: make it static -> surprise, no adainit exported/included, checked the .a file and everything, went nuts; make it dynamic -> ugh, need -lgnat and whatnot; rtfm again and again, there is this calo-magar
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886075 -> on additional digging, static lib apparently does have libnameinit so yest I was looking for the wrong thing
asciilifeform: it is also clearly stated in the proggy comments.
diana_coman: possibly; at the end of the day it's a choice and one can have gcd implemented one way or another, as long as the choice made is clearly stated on the tin
asciilifeform: imho arg can be made for it being the gcd-invoker's responsibility to know what to do with the output
diana_coman: so there
diana_coman: I suppose only in some silly situation such as "let's take 2 numbers from user; compute gcd and then proceed to divide and print results"
diana_coman: other than that the "reason" I can see is that otherwise in principle you need an additional check each time you call gcd (i.e. to make sure you don't step even if once in a blue moon) on this particular rake
diana_coman: is the performance penalty significant?
diana_coman: mathematically it does grate, yes
asciilifeform: ideally would like to conceive of a justification for either setting.
diana_coman: myeah, that's not in itself a reason to not do it (if anything, it's the opposite really, given the usual "what everybody does"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, I can't say that I have a very clear idea of ALL potential implications but atm I don't see some specific downside to that; I suppose the alternative would be to raise an error on gcd(0,0)?
asciilifeform: meanwhile via #asciilifeform : http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/building-the-eulora-client-with-gentoo.html << apparently d00d cleanly baked client on cuntoo
BingoBoingo: And the local mooing about the incident for those desiring to calibrate their prisms http://archive.is/uY9xD
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news (local enough asciilifeform walked by the location in question) https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/toma-de-rehen-en-una-peluqueria-de-pocitos-obligo-a-sitiar-la-zona-2019110143314
BingoBoingo: ^ Turns out Germany's solution to gutting their Army is taking France's
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/as-yellow-jackets-continue-undermining-macron-despot-to-sign-treaty-futher-eroding-separation-between-france-and-germany/ << Qntra -- As Yellow Jackets Continue Undermining Macron, Despot To Sign Treaty Futher Eroding Separation Between France And Germany
asciilifeform: pretty sure i mentioned it in the l0gz, it is old idea
asciilifeform: ( it dun use any osisms other than the cmdline args, which can be hardcoded for test runs; as for i/o, can be rs232, and guesswat, 'os' )
asciilifeform: errywhere else there's a massive noise component
asciilifeform: sorta 90% of the reason i want a dos gnat
asciilifeform: the ultimate tester would be a dos box
asciilifeform: aaand to round off : it vanished on the test box also. culprit appears to have been a running raid-verify job...
asciilifeform: (the test inputs are ~100MB ea.)
mircea_popescu: i was thinking more the weekend ?
asciilifeform: involved (i.e. interaction with other crapola running on the box) to produce random variance
asciilifeform: btw the thing that set asciilifeform's ears standing originally, is that the gcd test battery appeared to give +/- 30% variant runtimes depending on hamming weights. but in 20 repeats of the trial set, the same thing showed up, and with no correlation to hamming weight. and a http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wherN/?raw=true ( soft barrelshifter ) version now ends up showing... same thing. i suspect that some peculiarity of the pipeline is
a111: Logged on 2019-01-10 01:52 asciilifeform: hm , prolly oughta test both left and right, and make the operand nonzero (in case the iron does 'clever' with zeros), so gotta redo..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-10#1886234 << update : the 1e11-shot ver. reveals no significant avg. delta; rerunning overnight with 1e12.
mircea_popescu: hey Mocky : i need a buncha noob clicks done in eulora ; can you spend a coupla hours one of these days ?
billymg: i mean, the second needs it now in any case for the "no newline" spew, but had that one been fine, what would've been preferred for remedying the one before it?
billymg: wondering about proper V process though, this is back in the previous patch i published to add the text selection feature, does this mean regrind both?
billymg: i also noticed that the selection-magic.txt (which is to be renamed to selection-magic.php) ( http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/selection-magic.txt ) contains comments at the top marked with // that are not parsed as comments because they're outside the <script> block
billymg: hanbot: thanks for checking it out, i'll take a look at the "no newline" issue and see if i can get rid of it
mircea_popescu: because hey, this is optional now, yossik is at liberty to redress his stupidity or not as he well pleases, there's no obligation my intellectual superiority creates for him or anything.
mircea_popescu: and today being january, let us celebrate the SECOND year yossi kreinin failed to engage the utter destruction of his inept nonsense found in http://trilema.com/2017/my-ai-problems-a-humble-confession/
asciilifeform: hm , prolly oughta test both left and right, and make the operand nonzero (in case the iron does 'clever' with zeros), so gotta redo..
asciilifeform found the shift booby by generating ridiculously long random inputs, with variety of hamming weight ranges, and plain old wallclock
asciilifeform: this appears to be the kind of boobytrap that can only be found empirically.
asciilifeform: ( and before anyone asks -- neither intel nor amd publish 'tick tables' the way they did in 1990s, and haven't for many yrs )
asciilifeform: this means not only slightly slower gcd than the draft posted earlier (it'll need a mux) but it also means that e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_qshft__adb.htm#111_14 was in fact leaking, albeit undetectable on the tests given in ch14, and will need mandatory HaveBarrelShifter = 0 (i.e. 5% or so penalty)
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform made the unhappy discovery that shift-by-zero takes fewer cpu cycles on pretty much all x86 iron vs shift-by-1 .
asciilifeform: if you never fiddled with the layout, why shouldn't it work
mircea_popescu: also, remarkably stable, i've not had to fiddle with the original ftjam, client compiles today same exact way it did back then. which...
asciilifeform: ( aand on top of that, is victim of the faux-standardization pestilential in unixland )
asciilifeform: in the past asciilifeform used ordinary gnumake for this kinda thing. but it usually resulted in 1000ln 'make'.
mircea_popescu: the former, chet spent 3 months with this shit cca 2013
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does it work in that 'it worx, and 7 others previously barfed' or 'it was 1st i happened to try and it seems to work' ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, but this one works. sorta like there's 5000 "operating systems", but we use cuntoo.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read the link from earlier, made sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftjam pretty much the standard alternative to mod6 style handmade .sh
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news: Argentina ~30% poorer than last year in yet another metric https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/-desastre-y-fatal-temporada-en-punta-del-este-segun-comerciantes-201917204123
asciilifeform: ( perhaps can assume either that Mocky could not stomach it, or charged toomuch )
asciilifeform: there are so many and I'm only one << i admit that i'm a little curious why diana_coman & mircea_popescu dun enlist Mocky to carry on client dev -- but it's not my biz , if they dun feel like going into subj, i won't cry
diana_coman: myeah, that's part of the thing: as it is, it is at least tested that people managed to compile the whole thing on different platforms
diana_coman: and yes, I'd much rather use gnatmake for the whole pile of shit but atm the idea was to focus on a *different* part of the shit, since there are so many and I'm only one
diana_coman: for all my hate of them, atm they...build the whole mess of plugins and whatnots so sweeping them aside would take some effort, not insignificant
diana_coman: yet another tool that "makes building simple" don't you know; eulora's client has a WHOLE pile of scripts on top of jam on top of autotools and all that
diana_coman: I suppose I can further look at what gprbuild does for standalone libs and then force it into what I want but ...
diana_coman: I'll have another look at any rate, can't hurt
diana_coman: ave1, hm, I did look in there when I made the first go aka I compiled step by step the whole thing; but I don't recollect any real alternative to the standalone lib if one wants to pack the code really
ave1: all these extra code generation in Ada is managed with gnatbind
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 17:06 mircea_popescu: "But the type conversion rules for pointers are not so easily duped; there are no "classwide pointers" (thought perhaps life would be different if there were!). " << motherfucker on a stick, i want "classwide pointers" ie, "this door ambiguously links to any of the mcdonalds not any specific one" as i want to wake up to being assfucked by chtulhu.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886159 -> well yes, trying to "dupe" the rules can't be anything other than trying to corrupt the thing back into what-we-know (and possibly like or not but at least are used to it)
asciilifeform: ( the fortran - f77 )
asciilifeform: phunphakt: in ye olde bolixtron, there is an ada ( and fortran! ) compiler. (however asciilifeform has not tried either item, beyond 'hello world' )
asciilifeform: 'new shithouse is built from the rubble of the old, not imported brick' or how did lenin put it.
asciilifeform: the world of the folx who wrote ada for moneys in the saeculum, is not , as i gather, a happy place. sorta why asciilifeform had to learn buncha things from 1st principles, rather than by reading their ugh
asciilifeform: ( observe, the only 'access pointer' in ffa is where it sucks in cmdline args from unix )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: hey, if microshit can have weev jailed for munging URLs, why not acade-microshit and some other d00d , similarly << There is still lulz to play out. He's being prosecuted in university research court (similar to University title ix court), unlikely to be fired, but if he is the bar will be lowered. Maybe to the point we can have a fire PSU faculty bot.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck.
mircea_popescu: "But the type conversion rules for pointers are not so easily duped; there are no "classwide pointers" (thought perhaps life would be different if there were!). " << motherfucker on a stick, i want "classwide pointers" ie, "this door ambiguously links to any of the mcdonalds not any specific one" as i want to wake up to being assfucked by chtulhu.
asciilifeform: i suspect he was 'old guard' (ada greybeard) and the bottle took its toll.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 23:38 asciilifeform: typical, http://adagin.blogspot.com/2013/12/ada-2005-access-types-part-i.html , lively : type Hooker_Array is array (Positive range <>) of Hooker_Class_Ptr; procedure Violate_Bodies (x : Hooker_Array); ... 'We want to track all our victims, presumably in some sort of set or container, so that we might disinter them later as needed. Similarly, we might also want to do strange, awful things with the dead bodies of the hookers.'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 23:36 asciilifeform: meanwhile, from the dept of interesting but dead, http://adagin.blogspot.com
asciilifeform: incidentally i cant think of any reason it wouldn't work exactly same with mysql, with the exception of where i dun yet know how to do the o(n log n) indices in mysql
asciilifeform: hm it actually links in ~all~ of mysql ? or just has the typical 'connect to local instance' skin ?
asciilifeform: exactly like trb then
mircea_popescu: fwiw, it uses threads for no practical purpose, just ot say it uses them
mircea_popescu: now obviously, "best place for ada code is in ada program". but the issue here is how to effectually corrupt, stupidity into sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the problem at hand : there's 200k loc in a hairball currently.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey, if microshit can have weev jailed for munging URLs, why not acade-microshit and some other d00d , similarly
asciilifeform: cuz in the vice-versa variant, what you'll have is ~two~ threading systems that dun know about one another, and the shit one (cpp) doesn't have any concept of sane locks etc
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 17:28 asciilifeform: the 1st step to adaizing a cpp turd is to remove the cpp threadisms, they will not only not work with ada's sane tasking but actually destroy the guarantees of the latter
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect that even if you get the thing to properly link, you will discover new headaches on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885177 . really imho proggy that has ada tasks oughta have ada main , and (if must) call static cpp turdola, not vice-versa
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 15:16 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886064 << iirc ave1 found how to expose the init knob explicitly. you may want to try his method
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886104 -> I seem to have missed this; ave1, did you find a way to expose the adainit for static libs?
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 15:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886065 << hmm diana_coman , what piece in your proggy actually uses elaboration ? ( is it the tasking ? )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2019/i-think-it-might-be-the-case-im-becoming-pretentious/#comment-127374
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 14:07 diana_coman: can't make it static because then it doesn't link in the adainit, adafinal
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886064 << iirc ave1 found how to expose the init knob explicitly. you may want to try his method
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886056 << i tried and failed to find & buy whatever it is they make for the sea ( why settle for konsoomer plastic ) but no dice, it aint gettable anywhere
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 14:08 diana_coman: (those are needed to do the elaboration in ada so can't do without them either)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886065 << hmm diana_coman , what piece in your proggy actually uses elaboration ? ( is it the tasking ? )
a111: Logged on 2019-01-08 16:45 asciilifeform: in other esoterica, on gentoo 'xinput' dumps list of mice, and then 'xinput --set-prop yermousenumber 269 -1' switches off mouse-acceleration. ( possibly phf already knew this, but gives 9000x moar usable roller )
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 11:09 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-08#1885844 << you can also switch between three acceleration modes by, i believe, holding middle button and clicking right button (or similar, should be in the manual)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-09#1886058 << i set mine to max when i uncrated it, but noticed that 'overshoots'. turned out, they aint acceleration modes, but pulses-per-radian, and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-08#1885844 actually made it feel proper (i.e. can turn the roller 2pi, and then -2pi, and come to same pixel )
a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 11:14 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885092 << i have a couple and the first one i bought i think had that issue, i didn't bother replacing it, and after first cleaning i believe it went away, or possibly i stopped noticing. the one at my office definitely has clean clicks on all they keys, so if it bothers you perhaps worth replacing
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/i-think-it-might-be-the-case-im-becoming-pretentious/ << Trilema -- I think it might be the case I'm becoming pretentious.
diana_coman: as it is specific to ada, a non-ada main has no idea (nor does it care) about it and therefore won't do it automatically; the only way to have it done is to call explicitly the "init" procedure for the Ada unit that is to be used; and the only way to *have* such an init procedure seems to be the standalone lib thing
diana_coman: a sort of "getting everything ready" for the program to run
diana_coman: re ada elaboration since apparently it's not summarised in the logs as such: it's basically the code that runs *before* the main program starts and what it does is broadly initializing variables that the main program may expect to be able to access (e.g. "global" or in libs that are used) and running the "main" code (aka between begin and end of a package as opposed to that in procedures/functions) from units that are used
diana_coman: the log is our days' own encyclopedia really
mircea_popescu: so basically "the way to call ada from non-ada context is called 'standalone encapsulated dynamic' in ada" is the idea here ?
diana_coman: i.e. if you want to call ada from something-else main then you don't really have any choice that works other than this
diana_coman: no; the "way" to do that is meant to be precisely this standalone thingie
mircea_popescu: are we thus the first to try and call an ada library from a c main ?
diana_coman: my trajectory in hitting walls on this was precisely that: make it static -> surprise, no adainit exported/included, checked the .a file and everything, went nuts; make it dynamic -> ugh, need -lgnat and whatnot; rtfm again and again, there is this calo-magar
diana_coman: onth a static lib does not have the elaboration...
diana_coman: it has a donkey-horse as far as I can tell: a dynamic lib does not include all the code it requires so you'll need to further link /distribute stuff
diana_coman: the encapsulated part means it depends only on static libs at least (or so I read in the docs...)