mircea_popescu: and at the time of burial, it becomes evident corpse was older than the very instant of coffin lowering.
BingoBoingo: USG.Red probably exists in the way this guy is a wizard https://preview.redd.it/7gmxlr1ukan21.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=85e516926dda1e02f94efc406ff61f77801ed3f9
asciilifeform: decade ago tho, when actually had to suffer sitting in room with both chiralities, found it quite impossible to confuse 1 for other, even blindfolded
BingoBoingo: USG.Red is a subdivision of USG.Blue that exists in the hallucinations of its members, that there is/was a great relevant to them and they can have have it again.
asciilifeform: they even use entirely diff ethnics -- 'red' ~100% from BingoBoingo's 'flyover states' , 'blue' -- new england
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no difference, pantsuited hilarity's hilarious claim to manhood was "being in the situation room"
mircea_popescu: this was for orcs contemplating saying "yes" to the questions that may only be answered with the orlov niet.
mircea_popescu: but i mean at the ~onset~. by the time nixon was involved no such thing as meaningful red spoke publicly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the last time that distinction might've translated a meaningful difference was literally at the ONSET of vietnam war, opposing a very rudimentary "act from causes vs act for effects" dilemma.
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-ix/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part IX.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've had the misfortune to meet both types , they're distinguishable even from across street , as if fantasy characters , dwarf, elf
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no, this is the "manalone dies like he deserves to die, and like all will die"
mircea_popescu: "when dealing with usg, make sure you get 100% payment upfront" was http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ ; but iirc i had a different one.
asciilifeform: i find the 'coloured' model useful, it describes the -- quite diff -- sets of folx , one which grifts on 'orange revolution' management, other -- lives to churn inventory for lockheed et al
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone recall where that trilema article is, which literally says, "if you believe what usg lies to you, you'll end up in impossible committments which they WILL NOT help you pay for. they'll just withdraw leaving you hanging." ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "sent to die" gimme a break, whole premise of iraq was "nobody dies, nobody even walks the ground. we all sit in mcdonalds and do munch"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: historically existed tho, the folx who set up e.g iraq, by idjit pseudo-diplomacy, were not the one who then sent to die in desert.
BingoBoingo: And the Syria situation where NATO member Turkey's allies do not overlap with NATO member USG's allies
mircea_popescu: the warnings to any orcs thinking of following usg.blue's nonsense do pile on : they'll leave you high and dry, yo! wake up an' smell the coffee.
BingoBoingo: The USG defense industry marketers have been getting right fucked by the Turks since they decided Turkey was good enough to make new things, but not buy old things
mircea_popescu: the problem being, of course, usg.blue then gets caught with pants down regularly, and well, such lulz ensue. "you want us to help you save your nukes now ? suck on this cock, dorks."
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 00:56 mircea_popescu: in other oh wows, elena udrea (ro slut politician, quite successful. http://trilema.com/2009/super-terrific-caption-hour-part-i/ ) got convicted for nothing in particular (her party no longer in power), 5 years.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633625 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902800 very much related, by the way.
BingoBoingo: Then there's the whole S-400 versus Patriot Missile air defense decision the USG forced on Turkey and is still trying to do take backsies on.
asciilifeform: aha, when they move it is like when old sultan moved
mircea_popescu: Remarks have been made by the Turkish President Erdogan that I consider highly offensive to Australians, and highly reckless in this very sensitive environment, Mr Morrison said.
mircea_popescu: well, in any case insufficiently impressed by "indignation" and other such vat-relevant devices.
mircea_popescu: there's this fundamental self-hatred at the basis of "decisions" the schmucky whitebois take. "i shouldn't do well".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the eu can fail rather than thrive. they were "contending for the faith", see.
mircea_popescu: somehow, magically, i don't expect any "democratic decision factors" being hanged, or even as much as confronted (let alone admitting) their strict liability for this result.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/brexit-grexit-departugal-italeave-czechout-finish-oustria-latervia-byegium/#selection-103.162-111.212 <<< the controlling point on the matter.
asciilifeform: ... then again maybe no upgrade, consider , in ww1 no one remembered gavrilo p., d00d quietly died of typhus iirc while europe chopped off own limbs
asciilifeform: ^ most of the possible 'naive' designs for pehlike item, fail at this
asciilifeform: ( the other design objective, perhaps less obvious, is that enables treatment of incoming ciphertexts as 'passive subjects' operated upon by 'active' privkey, i.e. it is not possible for an incoming pehgram to decide to print yer privkey to screen, or radio its bits to aether by constructed pattern of decrypts, etc )
asciilifeform: design objective was, it oughta be able to generate any reasonable current or fyootoor publickeytron key , transform privs to pubs for publication, and operate to sign/encr/decr., with the 'tapes' being maximally human-readable , and the mechanics of the state machine per se, watertight. errything on top of this -- is bonus.
mircea_popescu: yes, but consider : as a counterpart of the "gnalr contest", which imo is not that bad of an idea even if it flows necessarily from the ~nature~ of the substrate, "only intellectually challenging thing to do in c++ is gnarl, much like only thing to do with mud is mess", one could also resurrect ye olde game of life (remember the mike_c project ?). construct say the tape that has the most interesting downstream (by some ~abstr
mircea_popescu: honestly i don't think we've even scratched the surface of what this thing can do.
asciilifeform: the most obvious mistake would be to 'von neumann' and to permit the tape to write to the tape, but i avoided that from beginning.
asciilifeform: naturally it is impossible to make 'magic' proggy where somehow 'no one' can be confused. but can remove the obv. sharp edges that errybody seems to like cutting own limbs off, w/out much cost, turns out.
mircea_popescu had this prepared in his notes, "and then he'll implement jumps, at which point dilemma : either all instructions are single byte, or else all instructions carry double meaning, from whence discussion of ambiguity in language etc".
asciilifeform: in the end found that they are entirely unnecessary: ch4-style { } forward skip blocks, and ch17 controlstack-powered loop mechanics, do 100% of what is constructively done normally with numeric jumps
asciilifeform: for thrd-completeness -- the final design turned out quite diff from the orig 2017 prototype. e.g. orig i was gonna have jumps
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's notion is to drive every possible nail into the heads of folx who like to 'obfuscated contest'
mircea_popescu: what, in the field ? by self ?
asciilifeform: @subname@body; declares a sub (declaration terminated by the ; so it is not possible to declare a sub with no return. ) @subname! calls the sub. sub can be called only if declared previously, and may not call self. sub may not be declared inside a sub or loop (i.e. if control stack is nonempty.)
asciilifeform: one of the wins from this is that whitespace addition/removal in the tape has no effect.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but that doesn't mean anything in context -- there's a "nimblest dancer" at the retirement home, also.
asciilifeform: there.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-19 09:27 spyked: notice: feedbot, spykedbot and web facing items that I'm hosting (e.g. thetarpit) will be down tomorrow, the 20th of March, cca 8AM-12PM. apologies for any inconveniences this might cause.
diana_coman: hm, the end there got clipped; I meant: I'll keep both domains and have redirects in place so all links with either domain work anyway.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-19 22:35 mircea_popescu: diana_coman i actually edited latest trilema to http://trilema.com/2019/lets-look-at-the-mechanism-of-decay/#selection-145.46-149.11 ; but i confess it's unclear which is the cannonical name. should it be dianacoman.com or ossasepia.com ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903447 -> both work and will work; when I started, the only name I could say I won't change was my own, hence dianacoman.com; in time I found a name for the blog too (took a few detours) and that's ossasepia hence ossasepia.com; but I don't expect anyone to go through any trouble and have to change their links either way; I suppose strictly speaking the blog is ossasepia.com so that'd be the cannonical but I'll
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-part-iii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Part III.
hanbot: btw trinque anything grab you re the patchlessness/lack of portage dir in http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/ ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in pronz, https://www.nutaku.net/services/publishing/ << "Nutaku Publishing is offering $10,000,000 to fund the growth of the adult game development community"
mircea_popescu: i dunno any of them are alive in any sense.
shinohai: lol I thought VERGE got rekt already. (Got added to pr0n sites, no one bothered to use)
mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck, alien parallel realities.
mircea_popescu: in other quite abstract lulz : there apparently exists a "cryptocurrency payment processor" (aka, https://probiller.com/ ) that takes one of "Horizen", "Tron" or "VERGE".
mod6: Anyway, it's not done being shaved just yet. But I'm getting there. So that's what I've been doing last few days.
mod6: Which, to trinque's point, the tool that really helps (I had forgotton about this) is the `make menuconfig` search.
mod6: I've been working, in the recent few days since "irc-server!!1", on just shaving the yak of my cuntoo-kernel.
mircea_popescu: perfect opportunity to invent a whole new "fest". but -- need the seed.
mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls, at that time the intended republic-sponsored kegger party at the site of some anti-usg rebellion died over portland's apparent failure to produce beer & sluts under ben_vulpes 's direction.
mircea_popescu: (in fact, for the sake of transparency, the idea i quoted on dpb's blog, from 2016, came exactly as a "hmm, i wonder why foundation is stuck, could alternative path be explored maybe ?".)
mircea_popescu: i suppose the correct way to get one of those is to press into service a 60yo lawyer rather than a 30yo computer guy. but in the early stages of bitcoin there was an all-pervasive notion that "we can do anything just because we wanna, we got the range, and the machinery for change, we're uprooting banks and governments and everything in path!!!"
mod6: The book is starting to help me, strange as it might seem, to see how all of this might go.
mircea_popescu: the foundation as such would have been, in its functional extension, a sort of secular trishop.church -- exactly like a foundation works, get people to give you money, build a golf course, that sort of anchoring.
mod6: You've got a vision, sometimes for me to see it, takes some thinking, some reading. I'm kinda slow, but I tend to get there with time.
mod6: Not that it's all very related, but I can draw some similarities between The Foundation, and what The Bitcoin Foundation ~should~ be.
mircea_popescu: it's not "of the irc-server/network" thing. it's of specifically cutting off that whole http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128273 discussion.
mod6: Have you read The Foundation?
mod6: I posted my response to your Lordship article before you made me realize about my retardation of the irc-server/network thing.
mod6: Well, if you don't think it's any sort of problem to see if I can somehow get back on the right track with the republic, I'm willing to let it go at that, wait and see until next year.
mircea_popescu: unless you specifically wanna change your call over at http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ and do it this year, which sure, why not.
mod6: But with a lack of serious time and focus, it's difficult to get there, right now anyway. I don't want to get neg-rated if think continue the same way for me this year.
mircea_popescu: to the concrete part : i don't expect your ratings are in any kind of danger, chiefly because i don't know that anyone expects anything specific of you as it is. the original "so take some time off" can still stand as such, and next april you can come off the lordship and all that.
mod6: it's not the old days of yore, and I've got to get better, I've got to improve.
mod6: But, I think you're right. The republic is getting harder to interface with.
mod6: heh, well, it could just be, as you said earlier, maybe I'm just braindamaged. lol, I probably am, I've been hit in the head enough.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to come the length of this circle : the point of the republic, as an intelectual construct, more generally than mere ideology, is that it'll slowly but surely ratchet into view any one participant's vulnerability. some people find this extremely interesting, perhaps as interesting as to fundamentally change the meaning of life, "i could never live without this".
mod6: yeah, the irc-server thing was a good example. With the foundation, I feel like I very well executed what was in the charter. As far as the outreach, I think I had a hard time with that part.
mircea_popescu: but in terms of substance, rather than representation.
mircea_popescu: well, so what'd be the significant difference between "i ran a foundation doing no outreach by means of this publishing now and again on this obscure cvasi-blog" and "i aim to run an irc network doing no outreach by means of running this ircd here" ?
mod6: And for what it's worth, during that time, and since, I've done a lot of reflection, trying to adjust myself to the republic. Being in a hurry all the time, lack of time, seems to make me not think through what I'm doing, or the bigger picture.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> did you take some time off to change, or did you give us some time off maybe we come to our senses ? << Very much the former, I'd like to think it's not my way to put my problems onto others or place blame onto others.
mircea_popescu: because it is perhaps the case that the point of that discussion (and, concidentally, the reason it discussed percents rather than scalars) was that dedication, rather than actual amounts, were at issue.
mircea_popescu: the original point of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903453 inquiry was to force the following dilemma upon you : "i, mod6 , have been doing some things, that didn't work so well. i took some time off, then i came back. when i came back, was i trying taking a new tack, or was i merely tuning in again, to see http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869075 so to speak ?"
mircea_popescu: why do you think the problem is time ?
mod6: Well, I think my lack of overall time to consume all things TMSR leaves me at a disadvantage. And I care about it very much, and I seem to just keep getting it wrong. I don't want to be a barrier or a problem. And I'm not sure when I'll have all the time that it takes, or the time that I desire.
mod6: So anyway, I get ancy, trying to keep up, do helpful things, get out of the ditch, so to speak.
mod6: (This is fine for the moment)
mircea_popescu: well yes, but if you want the conversation format this is the venue ; would you rather article-format ?
mod6: I've been doing a lot of thinking recently, going over our converstaion back from November 11th, other conversations as well. After taking that month or so off (was it 6 weeks?), I tried to ease myself back into TMSR~ related things, but I haven't been very successful.
mod6: Hi there, Sir.
mod6: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/#comment-128556 << Saw your latest comment here.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i actually edited latest trilema to http://trilema.com/2019/lets-look-at-the-mechanism-of-decay/#selection-145.46-149.11 ; but i confess it's unclear which is the cannonical name. should it be dianacoman.com or ossasepia.com ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 15:24 mircea_popescu: what is so wrong with saying "these people hate us, because we suck, how about we try something else instead of sucking even harder ???"
asciilifeform: oh ha, loox like peh/ffa are clean now ( the ln.1142 is a ~removal~ of uniturd from prev ch)
asciilifeform: fwiw peh is written from the start to support putting eggogology on separate physical device (e.g. lcd with red lamp) in embedded builds.
asciilifeform: aa in that they go to same tty
mircea_popescu: i have little faith in the separation, and especially seeing how widespread &2> inanities are.
asciilifeform: naturally they don't if author of proggy didn't remember to put'em there. (unix has 0 support for anything resembling sane eggogology aside from the separate stream, and yer stuck with if(!kernel_api_call()) {shit_pants()} etc in all cases )
mircea_popescu: except when they don't, and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: stderr is where eggogs go ( imho 1 of the few ~sane~ decisions of the unix people, to separate the streams so eggogs/warnings dun drown in normal output )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, there's no tools to be tolerant here, even if there were room for it ideologically. halt it is.
mircea_popescu: something like "The file a is not 7-bit clean. Bytes [line, offset]:content. Continue diffing ?"
asciilifeform: apologies to anyone whose toolchain choked on these, if indeed any
mircea_popescu: it's either identical or isn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: verily. until then, i've sworn off to paste anyffin from anywhere other than inside emacs, into same
asciilifeform: pretty sure the coad formatter is !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the most recent case i found was a 'minus' sign pasted in from ~own article~ . prior to that -- doublequotes in 'manifest', ditto
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where the fuck are you pissing unicode quotes into your text!
phf: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/auyin/?raw=true i investigated one of them before and it's stray unicode quotes
asciilifeform: i'd like to get the last uniturds out ( they creep in when paste in from www browser containing own pieces ! turns out. will also have to find out and kill whatever asciilifeform-wp piece is responsible. but not enuff free hands atm )
a111: Logged on 2019-03-19 15:17 asciilifeform wonders which is the most recent ch that anyone's had chance to read yet
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903347 -> fwiw I read with pen and paper up to and including ch10, at next round of reading will sign them too; the euloran swamps where one step ahead uncovers 3 layers to fix before coming back to same position ate a lot of my time, that's all I can say.
mircea_popescu: heh. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510255 came and went ; don't bother making a key for this handle, i'll negrate it.
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/089-feedparse-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- A few changes to Feedparse's HTTP requester (prelude to Feedbot)
asciilifeform: there's room for a moar 'ideal' instrument.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i realize it sounds like nuttery. but could have e.g. flat output rate irregardless of temperature ( theoretically achievable with radiodecay ) etc.
mircea_popescu: much like the original lords had relatively little to check their work against, but by now there's a decent pile.
mircea_popescu: fg is exactly what diana_coman 's origina keccak was : the FIRST. obviously the 2nd suffers from only having 1 predecesor. but its sufferance is part of the solution : by the time 3rd rolls around there's 2, and so following.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron btw, your comment sectyion ate my quotes, here's the original item : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RurWt/?raw=true
asciilifeform: re standards & tests -- it still bothers asciilifeform that there aint a 'primary standard' for rng
asciilifeform: e.g. modern parabellum round will work in yer ancestral ww1 parabellum. and the tolerance is, what, 0.1mm.
asciilifeform: it's how all of industry worked, before the monkeys
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is one of the largest fucking pleasures of working with republican material -- not ~only~ do you have to test an item against an ad-hoc test suite, but ~you can also test it against other known artefacts~. it's like wot for objects.)
asciilifeform: ( but , recall, i gotta sew yet a new keccakator out of them, for fixed-time )
mircea_popescu: the two versions came out equivalent in my testing
asciilifeform wonders which is the most recent ch that anyone's had chance to read yet
mircea_popescu: one can throw away a good chunk of the domestic budget just dirtying all the pans, not quite enough material to make a meal but plenty enough to require a washing.
mircea_popescu: the whole impediment to the republic is this slack -- that guy over there has a wheel, this guy over here has an engine, if the wheel met engine you'd have something, however... as it is you have a rotting wheel and an idling engine.
mircea_popescu: be it called "foundation" or "pizarro" or "irc server" or anything the fuck you call it, it'd better not include talking to others, and that's such fundamentally intrinsic braindamage it ain't even getting looked at, let alone addressed. if you merged them, you'd have something again, but they're separate, and well... separately waste.
mircea_popescu: and on in that vein -- that dood has absolutely no compunction spending all of his time talking to the lowest possible crop of nobody on a stick ; meanwhile mod6 wants to spend all his time doing the same thing over and over again -- a little whittling of soap under the covers.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile this dood can't afford to do useful work. if you somehow merged them, you'd have something, but separate they waste separately.
mircea_popescu: "contending for the faith", amirite. that dood could afford to do useful work, but with the affordability comes idiocy, and so he hallucinates nonsensical options for himself. which he'll regret, like any wastrel lives to regret -- but what's the use of regrets, neither do they turn back time nor inform the new crop of youthful wastrels everflowing from the evercunt.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like logotron will render it as just "logotron" in html?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like logotron will render it as just "logotron" in html?
a111: 2019-03-10 <phf> ksum right now works for any sized file, because it goes the b) route: http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp/tree/vtools/src/ksum.adb#L12
spyked: in work updates: feedparse is getting another patch today; and feedbot code has been heavily refactored and part one is on track to be published. it'll be a pretty heavy post, I'ma start working writing it tonight.
spyked: equipment is due for spring cleaning, plus I'm adding a new disk to one of the machines etc.
spyked: notice: feedbot, spykedbot and web facing items that I'm hosting (e.g. thetarpit) will be down tomorrow, the 20th of March, cca 8AM-12PM. apologies for any inconveniences this might cause.
mircea_popescu: kinda the lulzy thing about "popular feeling", that it is at the same time tediously trite in the objective, and then burningly personal in the subjective.
mircea_popescu: there was a bunch of them, the lulziest characters. ex port-worker (not even fucking kidding), and then ~completely ignorant~ of history, too!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has the details
mircea_popescu: this particular schmuck kept a little corner kiosk sellign chewing gum & such. you've seen the manner in paraguay i imagine. then went bankrupt, and "rediscovered" himself as a public speaker.
asciilifeform finds that for all the 'modern' , still ends up writing hand-htm to throw into it just like al schwartz in 1995
a111: Logged on 2019-03-18 23:20 mircea_popescu: after all, previous one took over on account of being public, from the even earlier private equivalent.
asciilifeform: sorta how auto is also prettycool if 1 in 100 has it, rather than 'rush hour' jam
mircea_popescu: aha. they were pretty cool, imo.
mircea_popescu: either that or "You know what gets no airplay ?"
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2019/freddy-got-fingered/#selection-127.100-127.213 << i had 1 of these ( admittedly when/where it did not quite require being mircea_popescu to get hold of it ) -- and 1 interesting aspect was that they shat out analogue/plaintext
asciilifeform: 2000s was in 'golden age' where simply net connection did not automatically put you in range of 12yo spew , so asciilifeform (not having younger siblings , nor teaching kindergarten) did not find out what they were doing in 2000s
mircea_popescu: incidentally, tom green does a pretty decent job of mocking the immediately previous generation of retards, late 90s, scene with the cellphone in http://trilema.com/2019/freddy-got-fingered/
mircea_popescu: ah, no, the teleportation item was early 2000s.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect you had slightly moar audaciously lyin' 12yos in mircea_popescustan -- where asciilifeform was, more common pattern was 'my father is a general + admiral + auto racer'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 03:02 mircea_popescu: there's this pic of some indistinct slut i posted once i'm too lazy to retrieve. she happens to be white, sports all manner of celtic cross tattoos, stylisized "SS" etc, is taking a coupla brown dicks.
mircea_popescu: (in which same vein, i was lately looking for a picture im pretty sure i published, described in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901441 ; also just as lost. the one thing with idiocy is that it's readily lost, and then just as readily found again.)
asciilifeform recalls lengthy passage in 'malleus' where author ponders whether witches pilot broomstick, or merely teleport
mircea_popescu: im sorry i wasn't more documentary minded at the time, and so item was regrettably lost.
mircea_popescu: after all, previous one took over on account of being public, from the even earlier private equivalent.
mircea_popescu: i suppose now this can take over, on the grounds that at least it's linkable. just as fucking iconic at any rate.
mircea_popescu: prior to this, my icon of such boyish idiocy would have been this chatlog from sometime around the first iraq war, where some kid literally pretended to be teleporting himself over there for half an hour or somesuch. because you know, he's such a debonair cool dude and all, the coming together of cellphone trend and "working for cia" trend in a thick sauce of general cluelessness.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron dood, the sort of lukewarm morons you're "contending" with...
asciilifeform: ( and subs internal to subs, permitted in ada planet just as they are in pascal )
asciilifeform: and sure will be revisited if it had to be . but i try and presently fail to come up with a scenario where it oughta be, rather than answer of 'take braindamaged pubkey that needs 257 routines somewhere else, ty'
asciilifeform: ( this is the last param to be put to this q, where walk b/w 'scylla' of magicnumberism and 'charybdis' of unknownramfootprintism )
mircea_popescu: this sort of thing can't be well answered without practice anyway. if it needs revisiting, it'll be revisited under the pressure of all these people using all these hundreds of sub clals.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 15:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines.
BingoBoingo: Buncha sad Swedes and other Nordics building apartments in their barns and living in that arrangement until Rooseveltism disrupted them.
BingoBoingo: But, that corner is/was Nordic US, I don't think it got to participate much in the America days of the colonies
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, doesn't "offut" look like a misspelling ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It appears to be the winner on Qntra as far as comments that didn't get spammed. Some of the spams stretch on and on with links to nowhere.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do i win the prize for lengthiest trilema comment ?
asciilifeform: there was an old mircea_popescu piece where 'the french set up elaborate system for fucking each other's wives' etc
a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 17:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, BingoBoingo 's theory can also be constructed into a third possible explanation : VHS america for a new generation, "they're so loose there, so '''freee''', sons even fuck their mothers!!!" thinks 19yo chowdry rasmadumberthanrockes while wanking it in glee.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903082 << discussion in teh haremobile meanwhile excavated a 4th possible line of reasoning, "the perversity of human nature, can only do something when it's not what's supposed to be done -- then and then only is it ok." witness all the kids going to college to party (that's not what it's for, which is what makes it ok).
BingoBoingo: Not usually police risk, but risk of other bums "Don't ruin a good thing retard"
BingoBoingo: This neighborhood's trash is apparently good enough to keep the demographic from taking the risk with gasoline theft here.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do they have those fancy locking tank caps like in '90s ru ? or notyet
BingoBoingo: And in other tales of Chorros Uruguayos: "Interrogado sobre lo ocurrido, admitió su responsabilidad, pero aseguró que el siniestro había sido accidental. En su declaración explicó que su intención era robar el combustible de la moto, y en medo de la oscuridad intentó ayudarse haciendo luz con un encendedor. Como resultado, el combustible ardió y la moto fue consumida. Además, el ladrón sufrió quemaduras en manos y pies."
asciilifeform: i suppose there is a 'no such thing as bad publicity' school of 'thought'...
BingoBoingo: And I'm not seeing any motive to revive the toxic MtGox brand other than psyop value "Look at those Buttcoiners forgiving the scamzor"
BingoBoingo: Well, he's also locked into it with some other derps, both groups wanting to resurrect a MtGox
asciilifeform: ( tho if BingoBoingo writes the latter, i'ma read )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, karpeles walks.
asciilifeform: the knobs still on conveyor are -- subroutines; hash ; constant-time table lookups. that's it.
asciilifeform: ( ideally i could rule out the existence of such thing as a class, but alas cannot )
asciilifeform: if someone thinks he needs a ~number-theoretical~ knob that 1) is missing in current ffa 2) cannot be efficiently baked out of the primitives -- he had better speak up soon.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Cool. Once the test subject gets here I'll start working on learning Cuntoo through practice.
asciilifeform: and it aint even necessary to saw open a bolix to see why this was. they didn't have to have a did_machine_do_what_i_said(...) after ~erry line.
asciilifeform: consider the not-uninteresting fact, that on 370,000-transistor bolix, ada was 50kloc ; while on 3bil+-transistor x86, ada (gnat cum gcc cum deps) is , what, 1mil+ ? and their kernel was iirc ~50kloc, while ours...
asciilifeform: old sovok practicaljoak -- shake out bag of flour in a room, then leave the light bulb with filament sans glass
asciilifeform has a jar of non-exothermic epoxy for potting electronics, it aint cheap
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, even ~this~ is trickier than you think -- ordinary cement ( and epoxies as well ) cure exothermically
BingoBoingo: A lot of questions are very very open, but cement is one of the cheaper ingredients in the seal in cement formula.
asciilifeform: imho nuffin linus et al shat out rises to anywhere near the level you'd want for this, but again 'you go to war with army you have'(tm)(r) etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i know for a fact that there exist pdp8 in actual cement, last i knew still processing inputs . so it aint entirely out of the question.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i cannot speak for others, but from my pov cuntoo is a wartime t34 , and defo not something i like to picture myself using 20y from nao << Someone's probably sealing Cuntoo'd devices in cement within 5 years
asciilifeform: ( ditto gnat. the troo adatron would be a ~50kloc bolix-style ada on sane iron support, rather than crusty old gnat )
bvt: i.e. finishing stage0/mes integration, and also there is a problem of bootstrapping gnat
asciilifeform: ( or for that matter any other unix, ditto )
asciilifeform: i cannot speak for others, but from my pov cuntoo is a wartime t34 , and defo not something i like to picture myself using 20y from nao
bvt: well, the question is then, whether we want to do this for cuntoo -- this work will need some resources dedicated to it.
asciilifeform: characteristically of people who set out to solve the Wrong Problem , they will trip over own feet 9000 times and learn 0
bvt: otoh, author did mention that most of the tools can be easily made to work on e.g. dos
asciilifeform: i.e. to go through the sweat of building an arch, only to then plant kernighan and poettering on top again.
bvt: asciilifeform: yes, this is a problem; for example, their x86_64 hex0-2, as little sense as this can make (in presence of intel me&etc), are done as linux binaries: currently their goal is to bootstrap linux
asciilifeform: i suspect that the 'let's bootstrap c' thing comes from a narrow fixation on thompsonism to the exclusion of the other 9000 leprosies of the pdp age.
asciilifeform: ( on the other end of the barf -- picture, C is what they want to bootstrap. because somehow can have sanity while preserving GB of pointerfandangoandcrashlang in the stack, somehow . )
a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 18:55 mircea_popescu: IMO it makes no sense adopting the VM, given that apparently mips.v7 will be the republican CPU architecture on ice40. << i very much not agree ; much too soon to standardize this.
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903106 << i also agree that it is; i don't find myself knowledgable enough to make a decision on the republican cpu architecture, but for bootstrapping using ice40 with its limited resources a simple mips core sounded fitting.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 15:05 mircea_popescu: bvt http://archive.is/febOU#selection-89.0-89.194 << are these people still active or is it basically ozymandias over there ?
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1902991 << as far as the 'stage0' is concerned, there is one guy manaloneing (OriansJ in #bootstrappable), and a dozen of people watching. can't say anything about 'mes' yet, it has a different author.
asciilifeform: the notion that 'all irons are the same' , while correct in a narrow mathematical sense , has done a good bit of damage . arguably turned entire field into garbage, at that.
asciilifeform: the result is ~always~ a massive ball o'shit ~later~
asciilifeform: all of these folx, afaik, do ~exact same thing, they take the school cpu from their kindergarten textbook and proclaim 'hey this fits in head, let's bootstrap on it'
asciilifeform: picture if i had made ffa deal in 32bit words, and then proclaimed 'implement bignum on that'. do you imagine the result would be in any sense 'fits in head' ?
asciilifeform: n iron -- you get 9000x the mass later.
asciilifeform: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
mircea_popescu: bvt is the author still alive btw ?
asciilifeform: http://archive.is/febOU#selection-207.0-207.164 << imho if a lang is intrinsically difficult to bootstrap, it (and/or ~the iron~ chosen for the attempt) is thereby defective.
asciilifeform: ( it's entirely ok as illustration of forthism, but absolutely terrible from 'bootstrap' pov , for the reason described in linked piece )
a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 15:28 mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/febOU#selection-149.0-155.207 is precisely the example i was looking for in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900631
asciilifeform: trinque: any idea whether there is a www-navigable map of these anywhere ? ( a la ye olde trb flow graph 'wish item' ) ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm curious wtf aes is doing in the kernel.
trinque: menuconfig search and help are the tools to figure this kind of thing out.
asciilifeform: the 'mandatory for yer own good' of usb nic must be quite recent.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-16 01:05 mircea_popescu: trinque http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ do anything for you ?
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part IV