mircea_popescu: and yes, indeed their are -- her fucking guardian angels. never the fuck mine, holy shit burn the whole thing down.
mircea_popescu: meanwhikle at cuntcamps, gut feelings are your guardian angel
asciilifeform: not only inner ear, but just about whole of flight instruction is about beating the 'intuitive' behaviours out of the student.
mircea_popescu: and no, of course "not needed", "do we still have to DO that". because why the fuck learn from the few and far between successes of that sorry failed republic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is interesting in fact to read about the era of flight before 'instruments'. lots and lotsa corpses on acct of 'seat of pants' as sole instrument
mircea_popescu: i'll be really happy to hear of another.
mircea_popescu: pretty much ONLY KNOWN SYSTEM where truthfully and genuinely, the promise of "drugs" or "tools" or whatever is actually fullfilled.
mircea_popescu: every time alf goes on about "mind enhancing tools" the pvhd is my mental model.
mircea_popescu: a: they both had this projected faint light line around the cockpit representing the true horizon. set so faint as to disappear in direct vision, it nevertheless informed the (more sensitive) peripheral vision, preventing accidents wonderfully!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' is the py people's equiv. of 'hunchentoot'. eats the @app.route('/log/<chan>/<date>') etc sugars , does the 'html madlibs' thing on the 'templates' (a la 'cl-who') etc
snsabot: Logged on 2018-08-29 12:10:45 mircea_popescu: pro tip : the thompson's a passible concrete cutter. it comes from the same mental era as http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=warthog ; made by the same people for the same reasons, abandoned by the same cucks for the same reasons.
mircea_popescu: in other same "burn down tools" : what unites the here discussed sr71 and the other excellent us plane ever built, the warthhog ?
diana_coman: lmao; I puzzled when first saw there "flask" - but then again, not sure one can bake www-anything quickly without importing any mess
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re titanium -- they still sell it. (quasi-monopoly. but -- and common misconception -- it aint because of the sands, at least not directly; but rather because ru has the only seriously developed infrastructure for ti metallurgy )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re upstack , and yer gonna 'luvv' this -- i have the date link thing on operating table right nao, and loox like bug in... 'flask'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 09:36:22 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile in su they quietly built mach5+ machine... )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927117 << amusingly, the sr was built entirely out of titanium exfiltrated from a remarkably cluess soviet union (large portion of the "private companies" in the afore-mentioned germany-switzerland ***trade was this) ; nobody else had the rutile sands.
mircea_popescu: s sit in a circle and pick lice out of each other" is tooling.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the cunt lobby wants the tools destroyed, because the only thing that can oppose "let
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it fell victim to the idjit internal wars b/w diff 'competing' golden toilet houses
mircea_popescu: same bunch of morons who ALSO pushed through very expensive but otherwise mostly pointless sensor upgrade -- also specifically so as to claiom "costly"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, re the sr being expensive : it was not particularly expensive, even by the day's standards. it was however besed by the dumb cunt lobby who, for instance, WOULD NOT permit it get upgraded with a data link, SPECIFOCALLY so they could claim "useless -- data only avsilable on landing"
mircea_popescu: theirs is a pov which MUST BE REPRESSED.
mircea_popescu: obviously from THEIR pov if there isn't any such thing as a spear to fucking poke them until they submit (yes, the SPEAR was the original society-changer, turned human tribes from matriarchy to patriarchy because finally there was an efficient way to make the dumb cunts stfu with their dumb nonsense) all the better ; but theirs isn't a legitimate pov.
mircea_popescu: if there's ten, ten million or no dumb cunts sitting around their holy tree or whatever the fuck chanting their spurious nonsense it makes no fucking difference whatsoever.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:39 mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable"
asciilifeform had roommate at uni, who got degree in building jets. but then realized -- no serious work. now astronomer..
mircea_popescu: but yes, the sort of thing involved there, such as "listen sonny, ever heard of Schlieren flow visualisation ? no ? look here, this is supersonic jet in flight!" are the primary dirvers of intelligent adolescents even putting in the work to become adult engieners in the first fuckin gplace
asciilifeform: btw the operator manual of sr71 was published in '90s, prolly on the net somewhere to this day, was interesting read
asciilifeform: ( meanwhile in su they quietly built mach5+ machine... )
asciilifeform: iirc it was axed as a 'lisp machine', cost like 100 ordinary jets. and they thought 'world's most golden toilet', the time of f35 , that ate ~three decades~ in promisetronic phase and now flying clothes iron... had not come yet
mircea_popescu: large undergirth of the whole "republican-democrat" debate being pepsicans. most of the manginas involved were republicans.
asciilifeform: and k. johnson, 'the man who saw air', took it from drawing to flight in iirc <1yr !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 06:09:42 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in highlights : the sr71 was probably man's greatest achievement wrt flight. item carried no flares/countermeasures, because its defense if fired upon was to... accelerate, and outrun the missile. mach 3 capable, flying at 20-25km, never shot down, its parts fit so loosely on the ground (because of the significant temperature variation it operated under, between relatively cold on the ground and very hot in super
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 02:27:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, is it hard to make timezone settable from www ? then can get free faux cross of page boundaries
mircea_popescu: apache is in many parts a better system (in the sense of "system" used in "systems design) than the post-poettering and especially post-linus kernels ; mod_lisp may be a decent way to get lisp running in practice
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma look re the date
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i'm quite happy with jfw 's "Actually "mod_lisp" is perhaps a misnomer; it could be viewed as a generic IPC interface that comes with a Lisp implementation of the server side." comment.
mircea_popescu: ''← 2019-08-09" ; but http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 displays the empty 10th link, "← 2019-08-08 | 2019-08-10 →"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-31 13:15:34 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925836 << this is quite factual ; the old women in this are mccain, [trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-antipsychotics-overprescribed-to-kids-adnotated/][grassley] etc.
mircea_popescu: speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-31#1925848 , old woman cheney's moans about the sr-71's expensiveness should probably be mentioned also. inconsequential moron, which is how he escaped mention then, but instrumental in the edifying of idiocy-us, the successor state to vhs-america.
mircea_popescu: (and, while at it, how the first analog computers were developed -- no, it wasn't bomb calculators, it was jet engine air intake anti-unstarters for applications such as this guy.)
mircea_popescu: possibly the "last great story"
mircea_popescu: oh, and of course it burns synthetic fuel, rather than distillate. so yes, chemical engineering too.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in highlights : the sr71 was probably man's greatest achievement wrt flight. item carried no flares/countermeasures, because its defense if fired upon was to... accelerate, and outrun the missile. mach 3 capable, flying at 20-25km, never shot down, its parts fit so loosely on the ground (because of the significant temperature variation it operated under, between relatively cold on the ground and very hot in super
mircea_popescu: in other illustrations, https://ufprzuhk9mggpbx4-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Screech_Owl_named_Fod_found_on_USS_Harry_S._Truman_CVN_75-1024x768.jpg
mircea_popescu: perhaps best illustration of the point : UTC hq from 1975 UTC hq from 2015 (ex otis elevator hq)
mircea_popescu: there was, of course, no supersonic civil flight since the concorde/tu144 retirements, so i suppose we could use 1970s as a high water mark. but if anyone's having kids these days, i believe by the time they're our age their only interaction with flight will be in the hanging-on-ropes format.
mircea_popescu: Let halves of aeroplanes turn overhead, their smoking, broken cockpits dripping "it is done"...
mircea_popescu: continuing trend set with "civil air managed to lose early 2010s the combined profits realised since man discovered flight" (and then continued by obama's ending of nasa to redirect the money no more properly african goals), white man is actually getting out of aerospace altogether.
mircea_popescu: in simple words, the F35 failure is bringing about a winter the likes of which was never seen ; previous achievement of lisp monkeys nowhere within 1%
mircea_popescu: in other ends-of-line, utc (maker of elevators) is merging its aerospace division with raytheon.
mircea_popescu: re forth, so what, make another starflight ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, is it hard to make timezone settable from www ? then can get free faux cross of page boundaries
asciilifeform: atm these do not know how to cross day page boundaries, however.
asciilifeform: atm these can only be constructed 'by hand'. if anyone has better idea -- plox to write in.
asciilifeform: in other noose, mircea_popescu : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09?ss=1927022&se=1927024#1927022
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:37:33 spyked: mircea_popescu, re. tmsr lang: could be one of two or three (or I dunno how many) langs, as long as tmsr owns 'em. atm there's no genesis for a cl compiler/interpreter (let alone e.g. networking code a la usocket, or a curl etc.), so... inb4 "fuck you spyked, I can't even compile sbcl, how do you want me to stand up your logotron"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926728 << revisiting this mega-q : i've considered to bake a tmsr ~forth~ (general-purpose, rather than peh) . has the theoretical appeal that it could be bootstrapped 'M'-style, in asm. but could i convince anyone to program in it !
mircea_popescu: i suspect it'll be alling in the us too. it's how socialism works, give kids parents, give kids teachers, give kids jobs...
BingoBoingo: The idea that a school's particular program of study necessarily leads to a job in that field is far more intact in Latino land than it has been in the US.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:58:21 mp_en_viaje: this is utterly fucking false, of course. the telegraph doesn't get in a month the daily readership of trilema. but i think the ~pervasiveness~ of the antiquated, and mistaken, worldview may rub off on people.
mircea_popescu: it's what's left. first service economy, then online economy, by now...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting the pizdi bill ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... females ?
BingoBoingo: "Herp Derp! We R Universitit. To get prestige we must linkbuild and clickbait against MIT in the Googlefight! To that we need to replace math with Pinoy."
mircea_popescu: but hey, i'm sure awareness suitably raised on the important topics. dude guaranteed "knows" about "earth sciences" "consensus" on "global warming" &c
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 18:06:40 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926916 << more importantly seems poor fit ; ada's strengths not so valuable for logger either.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in fucking amusing cornell UGC, http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/physics/134-physics/general-physics/mechanics/829-why-can-t-a-plane-fly-slowly-and-let-the-earth-pass-underneath-beginner
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926916 << more importantly seems poor fit ; ada's strengths not so valuable for logger either.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926886 << there was usage spike past few days, nfi. became popular somwhere
mircea_popescu: prolly take years for it to be surpassed, too. i guess there's that.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 12:54:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926724 << all laffs aside, he had the seriously better proggy (and with 3y+ of massage, too)
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926867 << yeah, i agree, so far just about the record holder for "oh, but he showed so much promise" trope.
mircea_popescu: the extreme poverty of the contemporary ustard is only comparable to the extreme retardation of same.
asciilifeform: not long ago asciilifeform went to bazar, and there were folx selling coffee. but instead of the usual signage saying what is name of the co, and from where coffee, there was... qr code. 'hey dontcha get it, aim pnoje camera here and will see little film clip of our spokesman..'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, 1 of the more recent idjit fads in pnojeism etc is just this, 'augmented reality', where user is to try an' look at e.g. shops, roads, through peephole of pnoje, to see imaginary 'signs' imposed on the picture
mircea_popescu: sounds kinda fucking stupid and in any case more expensive than just painting some sheet metal and piking it in the ground by the roadside. but then again if mechanical engineering worked like software "engineering"...
mircea_popescu: and then what, have legions of gnomes running around painting/erasing that stop sign in correct perspectives at 20fps ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 12:46:32 asciilifeform: the 'pc micro revolution' popularized an imho extremely braindamaged concept of what is 'comp lang'. specifically, where folx think that the front syntax is somehow logically glued to the internal mechanics ( whereas is merely happenstance, pc provides such broken bedrock abstractions that forces erry new lang author to write compiler 'from 0' as if year were 1959, but this is merely happenstance, rather than logical inevitability )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926862 << this is actually important point. the notion of "compiler", as ~different from os~ and somehow part of "lang" is not unlike the notion of road signage as differen tyfrom road and somehow part of all windshields and rearview mirrors.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure every single item i nthat pic was there 25 years ago also.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:33:52 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: !!key returns one for the fellow
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 09:21:00 lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926791 << for my cyruosity why did this go to trinque lol ? user dun have the key he reg'd ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 22:24:24 asciilifeform: expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 09:14:38 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-09#1926545 << python has the advantage that development happens on python 3, so python 2 has become "depcricated" (aka stable)
bvt: iirc it is buildable without xmlada and all the crazy deps with some tweaks; at least i did build it once and run one of the examples
asciilifeform: bvt: it was 1 of the items i tried to build. no dice.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:45:56 spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet?
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926692 << there is ~20 years old 'AWS' https://github.com/adacore/aws
bvt: at least it was reiterated here http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying/
mircea_popescu: bvt, just about. btw, if you feel like reimplementing that use the hash-seed method
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had this vintage piece, re 'technology vs magic' . where the former is something you can meaningfully take apart and repair, making new piece with lathe if you must; whereas the latter... can only pray
asciilifeform: telex & friends have substantial wins over 'modern' -- broken telex can be repaired by sweaty d00d with screwdriver, and out of improvised parts. whereas what's it even mean to 'repair' e.g. pc, esp. in condition where the parts not even made outside of taiwan.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 18:58:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, did the fg / kernel thing ever make sense to you ?
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926500 << i think get your point; though tbh, from my reading of linux it's not clear that urandom uses separate entropy pool, as i understood so far urandom uses the same pool as random, just ignores all 'entropy' measures (i still did not quite load that part in head, so this is not final info).
asciilifeform: they're ~eternal.
asciilifeform: these are even still used, in various ex-sovok places
mircea_popescu: early ro stock trading in the 90s used old commie era telexes. it was quite exciting
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the orig. pythonistic backend of phuctor, btw
bvt: asciilifeform: until the day for tcp to die arrives, you'd still have to interact with tcp warts in that or other form
asciilifeform: problem isn't 'no way to expose', they're perfectly exposed, e.g. 'M' uses 100% raw syscalls for all i/o . problem is the fundamentally ill-conceived abstraction, where you don't ~only~ have the stream, but also a barely-known and large set of possible out-of-band eggog conditions
bvt: on posix, don't think there is way out of exposing fds and syscalls
asciilifeform: could try to use ada's 'streams' model. but then must decide, how to represent ~all~ of the possible tcp hiccups.
bvt: re pg - yes, you'd have to implement the protocol; and serialization/deserialization is error prone and typically takes lots of code (i.e. too much), agreed
asciilifeform: i suspect the glue for pg alone (i.e. if pg disgorges eggog, to produce proper ada-compat. exception, rather than crash), not to mention utf8ism, would weigh like ten ffa's
asciilifeform: re general topic of 'string munging problems' -- they are plentiful and prolly inescapable, and i suspect there could be win from reviving an item like snobol (where ~sane~ abstractions specifically for stringism, rather than seas of regexp)
asciilifeform: bvt: the c glue defo uses
bvt: i would actually expect that pg protocol does not use 0terminated strings. re 80% of CL -- inside of it's implementation you'd find same shit. dunno how it would be different from using heathen libs
asciilifeform: this is the 'flip side of the medal' -- sometimes the given abstractions are not a good fit for $problem. picture e.g. attempt to ffa in commonlisp, where you'd have to bend over backwards to make sure you ~never~ cons
asciilifeform: nao if you throw out pg and sqlism, and make mmap-based db from 0... then possibly. but again goes back to '80% reimplementation of commonlisp' territory.
asciilifeform: but i strongly suspect that 'ada logtron' will consist mostly of non-humanreadable hex constants , and the pg glue will be eating null-termed c strings , and generally the result will not be a thing you 'would fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it!'(tm)(r)(h. hughes)
bvt: i don't think there is a way out of treating utf8ism as raw bytes, other than finding a heathen library
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 12:37:27 asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm)
bvt: i did some minor nginx plugin development -- the linked list approach was not bad, the only op i had to do with actual buffer was splitting it across chains links to insert data between.
asciilifeform: and would not even be able to "<a>" + whatever + "</a>" etc, i.e. can't use the existing sugar for string constants at all
asciilifeform: ( afaik you cannot use ~any~ of the existing string ops for these... would have to handle as naked bytes )
asciilifeform: bvt: i do not presently know what would have to be done to use utf8istic strings in gnat, either
asciilifeform: there's an (ungenesis'd, cuz tripped on gnat bugginess) mmap glue also
asciilifeform: cuz the ancient ones in fact ~do not build~ anywhere that i could get hands on.
asciilifeform: i think i mentioned, considered writing one. but then realized that will have to write tcpism and postgresism glue from 0.
bvt: re logotron with arbitrary number of messages - can't you send data in a loop? otherwise the problem touches all levels of net stack -- can't have arbitrary sized packets either
bvt: well, for most of format strings you know the number of formatted elements, right. re memory allocator -- an arena allocator is typically used, and file data can be mmaped
asciilifeform: there aint one
asciilifeform: i suppose it is theoretically possible to calculate upper bound... irc msg is only N chars max; and if full of nuffin but <a></a><a>...... but who can do this and guarantee no mistake ?
bvt: you still need to format the numbers, etc, but for this can always know upper bound
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 17:05:07 asciilifeform: snsabot and its www end are imho usably snappy, but you can tell that they run in interpreter, visibly slower than phf's
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926442 << the lag is noticable, but i'd say it is entirely usable.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 17:02:10 asciilifeform: diana_coman: principal weakness of ada in re this problem set (at least the ada 'specified' by asciilifeform) is stringism handling
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926433 << you don't actually need to concatenate anything as long as writev(3) is there. whether any gnat lib uses it -- dunno. at least nginx does use it (http://archive.is/QKjvD#selection-2735.36-2861.26), and imo this is a correct approach to the problem -- let kernel do the copying, if it needs to
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 17:00:59 asciilifeform: there aint one.
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926429 << well, if you're willing to use heathen libs, there are at least 2 pgsql bindings libs, but dunno about the quality (most likely with gnat.socket inside, yes).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:09:42 spyked: speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926704 << i'ma put it in on next reset. loox like i'll have to adjust the www template tho, it's run, lol, outta horiz. space! in the chan bar.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:09 phf: there's no need to znc, the entire archive of logs is available here: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/ with 2016-03.txt being the last kako file. the only outlier is tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt which is the dump mircea_popescu gave me of the prehistoric logs, which i have a custom reader for.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926775 << while would still like znc-eating & similar to close gaps, must note that phf's bot has the closest to 100% time coverage of afaik any. so defo will make use of.
asciilifeform: phf: alternatively , genesis the thing and i'ma maintain it. i might be the only daily user, and would be entirely fair for asciilifeform to carry the work of maintaining the thing.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:17 phf: btcbase will continue running the way it has been so far, and i will continue putting vpatches into patches at least until there's a replacement
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926776 << i can't speak for erryone, but, in case wasn't clear, asciilifeform spends HOUR+ (and sometimes several h) erry single day of the week reading coad at btcbase/patches ! it is quite essential tool , fully 20-30% boost of brain to asciilifeform . that being said, would be imho a++ if you found how to make it eat patches/sigs through a www-based hopper, like jurov's earlier it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:02 phf: asciilifeform: i'll genesis you the logger in the next two weeks. i'd rather you not waste time on it though. the design predates castles, so making it multichannel might be excessive amount of work. it's idiosyncratic, a product of the conversations from four years ago. your current approach seems a lot more solid.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:52:12 spyked: my sense so far is that they (initially?) designed it to be a beast similar to Apache, rather than running behind it. it does multi-threading so it should be able to handle high loads pretty well. so if, say, I snipped the multi-threading bits out, I'd perhaps cut the code in half.
asciilifeform: python is very firmly an artifact of the 'batch processing' era.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 11:07:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926571 << will show correct link when the bot is next reset.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:39:17 spyked: ah. yeah, not sure there's such a thing. as asciilifeform pointed out, cl seems to handle string'isms better... and as mircea_popescu pointed out, cl doing tcpisms is not much different from python
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926724 << all laffs aside, he had the seriously better proggy (and with 3y+ of massage, too)
asciilifeform: pc is quite literally analogous to the 1880s portrait of mains current, where in nyc erry mansion, factory, has shed with steam engine chugging away (when the stoker remembers to stoken, and when the leather drive belt not rotted yet..)
asciilifeform: witness how yer box has 9000 half-broken 'soft' garbage collectors (sometimes running in impedance-mismatch ~against~ one another) instead of 1 working iron-powered gc, etc.
asciilifeform: the 'pc micro revolution' popularized an imho extremely braindamaged concept of what is 'comp lang'. specifically, where folx think that the front syntax is somehow logically glued to the internal mechanics ( whereas is merely happenstance, pc provides such broken bedrock abstractions that forces erry new lang author to write compiler 'from 0' as if year were 1959, but this is merely happenstance, rather than logical inevitability )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:13:06 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926712 << it is entirely possible to have sane ~back end~ on which you, e.g., write in a lisp-flavoured skin when mangling trees, and a fortran-flavoured skin when want to run in constant space/time with fine control of flow; the bolix people -- had. in fact, arguably all machines have (presently piss-poor) incarnation of this concept, it is... the machine arch itself.
asciilifeform: i defo saw impressive storm of packets when was testing the bot locally.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926695 << could easily be fleanode per se; they even advertise 'all new connections will be portscanned! for yer own good!'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:49:48 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926693 << mine seems to be working happily with 0.1s transmit delay. but indeed fleanode provides no guarantees, tomorrow they could just as easily decide that snsabot sending 4 shots in 0.5s is 'flood'.
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:45:56 spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926692 << principal weakness (and strength! interestingly) of ada is the total lack of support for questionable legacy kludges .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926667 << 'Мы на горе всем буржуям Мировой пожар раздуем!'(tm)(r)(a. blok) . sometimes exactly what is needed, is flamethrower. can't speak for others, but this is what asciilifeform orig found appealing about mircea_popescu . there's no shortage of what needs burnin'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926664 << there is however pasteur's infamous 'luck favours the prepared'.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:54:14 trinque: we're struggling up into the money machine, and it has its costs.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: whole story of how asciilifeform ended up with peh , if you recall, at one pt asciilifeform wanted to bake a battery-powered 'gpg replacement'. then went and saw what gpg actually consisted of, and found that not only koch liquishit, but broken on ~algo~ level
asciilifeform: but, naturally can expect that will run considerably slower than on pc. (my current estimate, factor of 30 or so, on the extant chips)
diana_coman: I still need to run tests and timings re "fast" but as a principle, it's not the first requirement (rsa is not for speed anyway)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: peh-on-batteries is defo part of the planned sequence. (last ch! in fact.)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: one painful way in which ic fab differs from softwarisms is that failure is ~very~ expensive. buggy proggy you can throw away, you lost a day or however long it took to write. buggy ic is a coupla 100k (usabux) in the hole.
snsabot: Logged on 2018-11-30 20:41:34 asciilifeform: last yr ( and before ) i talked to a coupla ic fabs, in various countries. they all not only run winshit but demand that you use their 'standard cells', which available (surprise?) under nda
asciilifeform: the former would cost like FG; the latter... erry year or so i go an' dig, so far to end up empty-handed
asciilifeform: diana_coman: depending on meaning of 'peh iron', could be quite inexpensive ( e.g. to plant it on commonplace battery-powered item, e.g. pic32mz, is entirely possib. ). but possibly this is not what diana_coman was thinking of, but instead the full orchestra where e.g. 4096b multiplier for fast rsa ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:48:05 mp_en_viaje: kinda why he wanted mips : could bake mips-peh-asic on the cheap atm.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926645 << if were actually 'cheap', already would have baked. possibly i did not explain the subj properly. mips is 'cheap' in terms of ~time~ , it is a classic and very compact design with existing compiler support. but to bake physical asic (on practical scale, rather than 'here's 5 dies that maybe-work for 5k ea. and we hope you know how to solder gold wire under microscope' -- re
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:35:10 mp_en_viaje: and if you care, i suspect the quietness of your blog is what's giving people creeps.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926606 << wb trinque ! and yes, potentially useful, the moar the merrier, to fill whatever gaps in archive
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-19 16:57:44 asciilifeform: peeks at the nfs forum crapola; nao with 'nya-nya' from peanut gallery, bonus.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:02 diana_coman: I wish though I could actually access your blog from machine-other-than-toilet
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926581 << i'ma guess the dynamic ip thing is the headache there. i'ma be moving the www soon, tho. as soon as i figure out to where...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:21:27 mp_en_viaje: (idea is, you !!v a buncha times and safely decrypt, then store the otps use as needed. this was discussed years ago, it's good cuz it don't expose the keys on bot's iron)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926571 << will show correct link when the bot is next reset.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting the pizdi bill ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... females ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926567 << in practice asciilifeform will work with anyone who has hands growing from the right organ; but the folx mircea_popescu described are more likely to end up in #a, i suspect indeed
asciilifeform: incidentally this is yet another weakness of pythonism. the utf8 support is a voodoo incantation and does whothefuckknows what.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 22:24:24 asciilifeform: expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots
PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926544 << what I was pointing at ^, bot did not read. Is there a reason btcbase and nosuchlabs logs do not cut the day at the same point?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:32:19 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926566 << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too.
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926726 << thanks for looking, i'm about to leave town for a few days but will try to respond on my blog over the weekend
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 00:44:50 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: I can't decrypt the invoice - it is encrypted to a key I don't have.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-09#1926545 << python has the advantage that development happens on python 3, so python 2 has become "depcricated" (aka stable)
lobbes: In my case, the cost of the iron getting popped and my bots losing their private keys did not seem high (really, I'd just make a new bot key and sign it from mine). Still, as I said, probably not ideal, especially when spyked already has the proper otp solution published.
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926600 << not in my mind; already on my iron. Like I said, it isn't an ideal system (there is a thread somewhere already on this), but both of my bots have their respective (dundundun) private keys sitting on the iron. I issue a command and the bots go and do the decrypting.
lobbes: phf: the znc eater, if I am corrent in understanding, is for backfilling the other castle logs (#a, #o, #e, etc.)
phf: btcbase will continue running the way it has been so far, and i will continue putting vpatches into patches at least until there's a replacement
phf: there's no need to znc, the entire archive of logs is available here: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/ with 2016-03.txt being the last kako file. the only outlier is tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt which is the dump mircea_popescu gave me of the prehistoric logs, which i have a custom reader for.
phf: asciilifeform: i'll genesis you the logger in the next two weeks. i'd rather you not waste time on it though. the design predates castles, so making it multichannel might be excessive amount of work. it's idiosyncratic, a product of the conversations from four years ago. your current approach seems a lot more solid.
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, and 21 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> will [http://btcbase.org/patches] [patch viewer] ever get [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-24#1924501] [fed] !? and how about [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924232] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last 60 seconds; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes. ?! where didja go, phf ? feeding the fish ?
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up.
mircea_popescu: "a thirst for adventure" or how did the golden age rpg story go. a band of misfits with a thirst for adventure.
mircea_popescu: the point isn't whether "it works out" ; the point is that no old merchant from the age of sail, successful or otherwise, would've traded his life out for landlubbers'.
mircea_popescu: but to answer the orig q : ~i~ would probably go to some kind of pashtun and do the [artefacts trade][http://trilema.com/2012/concurs-de-fictiune/] thing, on the solid backing of imported gold. which is why i suggested qatar to mocky, travel to establish what became pizarro etc.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:17 trinque: which is just utterly wtf from the outside.
spyked: mircea_popescu, it happens that I have a blogpost in the works just on that :D
mircea_popescu: romanians these days...
spyked: lulz. apparently "friends" is somewhat popular in ro nowadays, there's marathon reruns on tv and I see all these chicks with brand t-shirts on the street... well, I'm assuming they watch it
mircea_popescu: spyked, amusingly, at the time seinfeld ran a bunch of morons were remaking it. "friends" (with that blonde dumb cunt, what's her name). it didn't work even then
spyked: I saw a couple of episodes in a weekend (and another couple of "big bang theory") and I got the distinct feeling of "these guys are trying to remake seinfeld with another cast and variations on the ol' premise". i.e. they're not jews in NY, but nerds in LA or something like that
spyked: well, if we count the shows that are seinfeld rip-offs (e.g. that charlie sheen thing), maybe not even half.
mircea_popescu: moral hazard of the finest imperial flavour.
mircea_popescu: the obnoxious part is that tarantino didn't get 50% of sopranos income ; nor lynch of xfiles. though THEY WERE OWED
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:33:06 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in inspirational quotes, "Due to financial problems the filming of Eraserhead was haphazard, regularly stopping and starting again."
spyked: logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926609 <-- incidentally, I started reviewing twin peaks about a month ago. and the part of it that is soap opera has aged horribly, while the part that is "david lynch mindfuck poetry" I still find brilliant. the man has a way of stirring frustration, I suspect he does it intentionally most of the time
mircea_popescu: high q multithreading is one of the few things cl has arguing for it
spyked: but I'm not sure that's the right way to go atm
spyked: my sense so far is that they (initially?) designed it to be a beast similar to Apache, rather than running behind it. it does multi-threading so it should be able to handle high loads pretty well. so if, say, I snipped the multi-threading bits out, I'd perhaps cut the code in half.
mircea_popescu: i did say it infuriates me, which it does ; but then again im not using it, so.
spyked: mircea_popescu, purely from the user's point of view, it works reliably as far as I can see. and two days ago I wrote a simple mock "comment eater" for thetarpit and was reasonably productive. I haven't found any major flaws yet, so I'll continue working through the code.
spyked: ah. yeah, not sure there's such a thing. as asciilifeform pointed out, cl seems to handle string'isms better... and as mircea_popescu pointed out, cl doing tcpisms is not much different from python
spyked: mircea_popescu, re. tmsr lang: could be one of two or three (or I dunno how many) langs, as long as tmsr owns 'em. atm there's no genesis for a cl compiler/interpreter (let alone e.g. networking code a la usocket, or a curl etc.), so... inb4 "fuck you spyked, I can't even compile sbcl, how do you want me to stand up your logotron"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 01:57:33 billymg: ^ i put together a quick POC for e2e testing on mp-wp. i have to sign off for the night and will be away from my main machine this weekend but will be checking the logs/comments if anyone has any feedback
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926566 << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too.
mircea_popescu: someone can then configure a local ~eater~ (taking, eg, bot cvs dumps) and have the logs (of w/e chan interests them) directly on their mp-wp. which means -- including the selection thing etc.
diana_coman: at refresh of bot's log page I notice the "snappy but visibly slower than phf's " aspect asciilifeform mentioned
mircea_popescu: incidentally, lobbes or billymg i guess -- if either of you feel like futzing with it, having a logger bot that spits out days formatted for mp-wp into MPWP_posts table formatted into a category so one can just plug that into their blog will prolly be fantastic.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926535 << best sorta cheat, for one thing saves you the trouble of genesising those.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 22:20:15 lobbes: pretty cool asciilifeform. ftr the speed at which you did this blows me away
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926703 << food for thought, not like there's a rush right nao
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:42:15 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926421 <-- fwiw I personally use CL because it's the lang that allows me to eat most coad/hr; although looking at the "cl on pc is a dead end" thread, I'd throw it away without any remorse were there a "tmsr lang"
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang"
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926678 << goes right back to "when is a bunch no longer a bunch" discussion. luck is not a property of the lucky, it's a property of the world.
mircea_popescu: this is obviously a charicature, for one thing the not giving a shit works both ways, for another i'm getting old, and so following. but i suppose you get the idea -- to borrow alf's metaphore a sackfull of lymphocites ain't getting very far in life.
mircea_popescu: i'm the sort of guy who ~had to think~ school is cool, or else wouldn't have gone. as a nine year old. i'm the sort of guy who told his father where to stick it. as a teen. there's currently a whole regiment of women literally dedicating their life to interfacing as much of the world as possible so i don't start burning it down, because yes, absolutely, the moment i'm not happy with how things are going there i am, jerry c
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926681 << simple case of http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-a-final-thought-on-chos-mental-illness-adnotated/#footnote_0_85643
spyked: speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there.
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926574 <-- #spyked is currently a drop-in replacement for thetarpit comments (not for long tho, I hope) and a bot testing ground (and possibly a bit noisy because of that). otherwise it's defo open to the lordship and newbs, altho I'm not yet actively doing anything to bring the latter in. I expect there's an overlap between the types that'll pop up in #sp
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting the pizdi bill ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... females ?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926520 <-- for trilemabot-voicer it works this way: the !!up + decrypt steps are manually operated; then the operator stores the OTPs in a list and the bot automatically !!v's them when it needs to up itself.
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees.
spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 16:59:01 diana_coman: and ftr I have no idea why did the other bots go for lisp anyway, did I miss somewhere the rationale for it?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926421 <-- fwiw I personally use CL because it's the lang that allows me to eat most coad/hr; although looking at the "cl on pc is a dead end" thread, I'd throw it away without any remorse were there a "tmsr lang"
mircea_popescu: it's the intrinsic limit on dealmaking, and why the glib narcissist does well there -- very effectually defensive of the self AND not that much there to begin with. because that's always the best kept secret of the well defended fortress -- there wasn't so much inside to begin with.