Show Idle (> d.) Chans
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ben_vulpes: in other news, i finally put a tv in the conference room and it is now apparently the dedicated "5 hours of rocket explosions on a loop" device
ben_vulpes: why would you put food in that plastic
ben_vulpes: pretty good example of the "promise" end of the spectrum.
ben_vulpes: mrottenkolber: forgive my thickness but /why/ are you doing this?
ben_vulpes: this is a special hell of paranoia, asciilifeform.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: boxes do not get delivered to your domicile?
ben_vulpes: and only if used as a hammer and not microscope.
ben_vulpes: fine.
ben_vulpes: yes yes
ben_vulpes: perhaps the *other* way to go about this is simply to make patches against the base 0.5.3, and then anyone wanting to apply them may do so in whatever order they choose, resolving conflicts as they feel.
ben_vulpes: yes but you like pain
ben_vulpes: what about this is fancy?
ben_vulpes: that way i can rebase, etc whenever i care to.
ben_vulpes: i press to confirm patch validity and then commit the changes to my local version controlatron.
ben_vulpes: catch-22
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-11-2015#1329599 << summarization also relies on knowing precisely what /can/ be snipped.
ben_vulpes: i have been failing to shit words on the topic out because i think of familiarity with it. it all seems so obvious!
ben_vulpes: another good topic is "specificity of diddling".
ben_vulpes: 'twas not actually that hard, but it did take knowing the variety speak thoroughly.
ben_vulpes: i recently took a 45 minute sojourn into the history of "protocol vs. promise"
ben_vulpes: fitting in head requires lopping all extraneous log comments off.
ben_vulpes: neato!
ben_vulpes: motherfucking moving target
ben_vulpes: for sitting
ben_vulpes hands trinque a pineapple and broomstick
ben_vulpes: stay limber in your head and effective at your keyboard, and do everything manually why not
ben_vulpes: what is this automating of the mental reactor rods!?
ben_vulpes: what, people don't maintain their own list of books as suggested by the individuals in chan?
ben_vulpes: it hints at ameliorating my concerns.
ben_vulpes: still thinking.
ben_vulpes: i did.
ben_vulpes: "this may contain pernicious hdd-wrecking nasties i'm unaware of, but is the closest thing to a bitcoinator i know of"?
ben_vulpes: "this bitcoinates - i do swear"?
ben_vulpes: i was even uncomfortable signing the genesis vpatch. what does that even mean -- "this is actually some variant of satoshi's hairball"?
ben_vulpes: there is, so far, no "this sucks, but it introduces no new lies" bit.
ben_vulpes: right now, i expect to sign something half-baked that then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've been waiting for the "what does a signature convey" conversation to sign anything.
ben_vulpes runs to logs, sees an infinity percent increase in traffic
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: kill -9
ben_vulpes: a route around the sybils perhaps?
ben_vulpes: and if the two parties are engaged in commerce, at least there must be an open channel to those consuming the digests.
ben_vulpes: if nonce demand is kept high enough, anyone operating a node that can produce digests has something of value to miners.
ben_vulpes: s/tool/constraint
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: could the digest be a tool for node operators to ensure access to miners?
ben_vulpes: "gotta dilute something!"
ben_vulpes: bitbet under ddos?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: a) why is that and b) out of whose piggy?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: assuming: betbet revenue is 100x divs (fault in several ways), and 2500 hours of time, and 0.4% of bitbet revenue to mods implies a .18 btc/hr mod rate. perverse incentive, though.
ben_vulpes: i don't see how it can continue without mods and hosting on the books.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
ben_vulpes: mod6: could be convinced
ben_vulpes: make life easy on the miners? why bother.
ben_vulpes: what's the point of the shift?
ben_vulpes: holmes i can read 10mb of json into memory naively and not even begin to sweat the phone.
ben_vulpes: i cannot imagine what is going on over there.
ben_vulpes: "the blob is like 10kb -- is that too much?"
ben_vulpes: "is the JSON too nesty?"
ben_vulpes: "why is the app broken?"
ben_vulpes: you don't *have* to do /anything/, mircea_popescu!
ben_vulpes: the 'umble shoemaker, dedicated to sitting on his ass and never doing anything, will starve in this town until he turns to making fashionable shoes with heels and lace instead of the sturdy things in which men tromp through mud.
ben_vulpes: 'tis not quite yet a place where one makes 130k predicated on 140k in living expenses, more like 80k in living expenses.
ben_vulpes: anyways phf, yes, alphabet corp friends and acquaintances are all having a grand party with the low cost of living.
ben_vulpes: something must be on the books for there to be any book value, etc.
ben_vulpes: more looking to the future
ben_vulpes: no shoulds on offer here.
ben_vulpes: hey it looked like a good idea!
ben_vulpes: "assetti null" or some such well-coined whatever.
ben_vulpes: yes yes.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm illiterate!
ben_vulpes: on only a tangentially related topic, when do we get the B.H.-style AN1 that retains all earnings /in/ the corp?
ben_vulpes too depressed about lemon markets to dance for old men and 'rounds' this quarter, probably ever
ben_vulpes starves, withers on the vine
ben_vulpes: "great idea! i guess we don't need any custom software after all."
ben_vulpes: "are you sure you wouldn't rather secure a loan with that 50k and set up a shop on squarespace?"
ben_vulpes: "nice people die first in holodomor"
ben_vulpes: phf: that's an advantage. i can't fleece people effectively with software, being too honest.
ben_vulpes: saving people from software is mostly thankless and rewardless.
ben_vulpes: phf: i clearly have no business being in business.
ben_vulpes: phf: it's 400k for a mobile app if you bring your own designer, 50-200k if we design it, 10-40k for a single-purpose webapp with minimal frills and if you need a website, well, squarespace is over there. heck, they even do ecomm, and better than any wordprex.
ben_vulpes: i will be astonished if bitbet actually goes into receivership.
ben_vulpes: ofc not for sale, asciilifeform.
ben_vulpes: with a deadman's switch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: hand fabricated lakebed racer
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let's just think about 'mods' for a moment.
ben_vulpes: davout: tis the Great Divestment.
ben_vulpes: bitbet is dead.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why would anyone step into receivership. a fee of anything less than the bill is lulzy small and will tar the receiver. doing it for free is chumpishly cleaning up mircea_popescu's mess.
ben_vulpes: how could i be so thick and naive! asciilifeform points out that the coffers might not even contain anything.
ben_vulpes: don't be thick, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: hey vex back for the drama?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431714 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432045 << upon consideration the (absurd! ridiculous! i don't understand how the world works!) schelling point is for kakobrekla and mircea_popescu to split the haul
ben_vulpes: 'not ready for primetime' fault of bitcoin
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431681 << a) a rose by any other trust backers would smell as sweet i'm sure b) i missed the part of this saga where this is not the
ben_vulpes: mk. then the contractual obligation bitbet is failing to uphold leading to its delisting would be kakobrekla's declining to convey his acceptance of the statement, without which shareholders cannot be paid out?
ben_vulpes: "aforementioned signed document" refers to "special spreadsheet"?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: bbet contract 3.1d refers to 3.1b, correct?
ben_vulpes: and be in the wot.
ben_vulpes: and the db.
ben_vulpes: perhaps mircea_popescu plays a different game here though.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: game theoretically permawedges obviously.
ben_vulpes: nice little construction.
ben_vulpes: this is going to be hung, as the receiver will have to answer as to the disposition of your charge, and either way one of the founders is going to refuse an unfriendly nominee.
ben_vulpes: ultimately though it'd just be you and kako hearing.
ben_vulpes: also auction not the best model, lowest bidding receiver is not a particularly good idea.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: see 4.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: for that to happen, the receiver'd have to invalidate mircea_popescu's charge.
ben_vulpes: probably /also/ already disqualified for stating his opinions on the matter.
ben_vulpes: jurov?
ben_vulpes: who is going to even contemplate stepping into receiver's role in this context?!
ben_vulpes: elementary questions like "wtf -- paid twice?!" are dismissed with "you just don't understand how bitcoin works".
ben_vulpes: no fucking engine. brick wall a mile high.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: into completely opaque steel walls no less.
ben_vulpes: i've been told that i have no business saying anything about bitbet's business, ascii_field.
ben_vulpes: what fucking tragedy.
ben_vulpes: nor can you pay bettors out after yourself in the process of dissolution.
ben_vulpes: no ofc not
ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field
ben_vulpes: "I will simply consider the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
ben_vulpes: oh ffs BingoBoingo with the mythical miner cartel
ben_vulpes: the problem appears to not be "unexpected expense" but a disagreement between the founders as to the legitimacy of the expense.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: your verditc is 'hrown matches'?
ben_vulpes: at least i only had to type my password the *first* time i booted bitcoin under gdb
ben_vulpes: there is only the creeping hell
ben_vulpes: there is no getting away fluffypony
ben_vulpes: let's just cram all the things i hate about my life into one tidy little package
ben_vulpes: here's to the grand unified microsoft-brand-linux-that-can-build-ios-apps
ben_vulpes: > wintermute
ben_vulpes: thanks phf
ben_vulpes: so there are includes in both .h and .cpp
ben_vulpes: i looked at main's imports and didn't see it including any other bitcoind namespaces pulling in the openssl/sha files
ben_vulpes: phf: while i have your attention, do you have any idea how the various SHA256_Init, _Transform functions get into main.cpp?
ben_vulpes is pleased to see suspicions confirmed
ben_vulpes: also dafuq is up with that name
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2671 << is there a good reason to be doing this check inside ScanHash_CryptoPP's loop rather than just returning from SC_CPP on each iteration?
ben_vulpes: read that as "quote as fuck" for half a second
ben_vulpes: phf: none taken
ben_vulpes: also, fuck cars.
ben_vulpes: punkman: utterly hilarious
ben_vulpes: burn it with fire
ben_vulpes: nifty roulette wheel
ben_vulpes: the link at the bottom of the website
ben_vulpes: funkenstein_: spacity.website does not
ben_vulpes: woulda taken all of ten minutes to swing through the office and you'd have left with at least three bottles of literally unprocureable elsewhere dundee wines
ben_vulpes: also dood wtf you stop in the city, swing through powells, and can't go 2 mi out of the way to get your eyes on my fp and mine on yours?
ben_vulpes: phf: whatsat, forest park?
ben_vouspes: i have no idea what point you're trying to make.
ben_vouspes: as predicted.
ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
ben_vouspes: williamdunne: and woefully incomplete. you'll need to read logs back to friday or thursday of last week to get a notion of what's going on.
ben_vouspes: quelle fucking triste
ben_vouspes: all over 17 btc.
ben_vouspes: mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true.
ben_vouspes: fucking giga-lol
ben_vouspes: weeeel, previous mistake was overpaying investors not double-paying bettors, was it not?
ben_vouspes: PeterL: ah, that's simple! traders get fired as soon as they mean revert.
ben_vulpes: i know i know.
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: some perl.
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: well i do but that's a special case.
ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: and what precisely the claim's root? that mircea_popescu paid twice? that the funds were his and the loan a breach of contract?
ben_vulpes: jurov: how frequently do mpex withdrawals go out with 0-fee txns?
ben_vulpes: but clearly these are all points that only dirigible captains may discuss over hawala shortwave.
ben_vulpes: and to beleabour the point, ka^H^Hbitbet the scouting party sacrificed to establish the new front.
ben_vulpes: or perhaps the bitbet rifle is proportionate to the value of $item were item btc.
ben_vulpes: perhaps rifle cost is actually proportionate to value of $item! heck, a month like 7/15 would cover the loa^Hss.
ben_vulpes: (couldn't possibly own stock, coins, can barely work a paste buffer much less gpg-tron, owns no real computers etc etc)
ben_vulpes only a curious kourt klown
ben_vulpes: how did blowing the coins serve to defend bitbet?
ben_vulpes: shareholder sentiment seems most opinionated about s.mpoe
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
ben_vulpes: perhaps the cartel got away. perhaps someone else cares to bet against mircea_popescu's bitcoin prognostications.
ben_vulpes: "what makes bitbet not fairlay" if i understand the kakobreka-ism
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424673 << the "mp or bb coins" question is trivially answerable by walking the blockchain and bitbet.
ben_vulpes: bitbet's addresses are not so much public as waved eagerly to the world, and mpex' barely advertised, and i'd split my sides laughing at the notion there was only the one public mpex address
ben_vulpes: 'tis quite obvious why this had to be done with poor kakobrekla's property and not his own.
ben_vulpes: near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.
ben_vulpes: what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances
ben_vulpes: *undeservedly underexamined*
ben_vulpes: with*
ben_vulpes: [02:12:30] [mircea_popescu] so then, upon advice, i sent it separately. and it went through within half hour. AFTER WHICH somehow the txn was magically found, and… this time it wasn't dropped from mempool ? what changed since last week, mempool is even bigger now. << most underexamined line in this whole saga to date.
ben_vulpes: TomServo: in what way?
ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116719 << sig(digest, pkey). this does nothing for the transacting protocol, but ensures that the device that mined a block /also/ has the privkey for the block subsidy.
ben_vulpes: i think that the above change would necessitate a new genesis block, as i suspect that difficulty is far too high for the hardware capable of hashing as described to generate a single block in any sort of reasonable time
ben_vulpes: unknown actor lol
ben_vulpes: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-capacity-nightmare-fees-reality/ << annals of "don't mention qntra whatever you do"
ben_vulpes: duh yeah `addr` field not necessary
ben_vulpes: if it's possible to confirm that the contents of `sig` corresponded to the *single* `addr` to which the block subsidy+fees (eg first transaction) pays out, i believe that the addidional `addr` header field could be omitted.
ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116712 << asciilifeform, mod6, jurov, PeterL, mircea_popescu, kakobrekla (in moderation, hopefully passes the bowels of mircea_popescu's wprexen soon)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
ben_vulpes: no time
ben_vulpes: so cartelization, preservation of extant btc distribution not even desireable. sounds like a new genesis, altcoin, if the prototype is even preserveable?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: quite mizerable.
ben_vulpes: seveneves!
ben_vulpes: complain to fluffypony he took what, 3 minutes?
ben_vulpes: it aint' great, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: but yes that too
ben_vulpes: but that's all i've found so far.
ben_vulpes: i found an antipooling design 'idea' on hackingdistributed
ben_vulpes: did i miss a fork proposal for july that would nuke miner cartelization, or perhaps even pooled mining?
ben_vulpes: #bitcoin-design, rather
ben_vulpes: #bitcoin-redesign
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how distribute coins without mining?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: now that's a thought-provoker.
ben_vulpes: !up felipelalli
ben_vulpes: cuomoo
ben_vulpes: MOOOOOO
ben_vulpes: noty.
ben_vulpes: but track it?
ben_vulpes: when it coughs up lols, i'll lol
ben_vulpes: the whole electoral farce
ben_vulpes: look i'm always down to see people humiliate themselves or be humiliated but the acres of derping around before the hammer comes down isn't edging its just fucking boring
ben_vulpes: ask someone who cares
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what is the 'comecon'?
ben_vulpes: THE ACID TRIP NEVER ENDS
ben_vulpes: i just threw up in my mouth
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421377 << today i learn that dirigibilists drink vermouth qua vermouth
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