Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-03-07 | 2016-03-09 →
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00053224 = 27.1176 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: << the "mp or bb coins" question is trivially answerable by walking the blockchain and bitbet.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 15:11:17; nubbins`: did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
ben_vulpes: "what makes bitbet not fairlay" if i understand the kakobreka-ism
ben_vulpes: perhaps the cartel got away. perhaps someone else cares to bet against mircea_popescu's bitcoin prognostications.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: .
mod6: oops
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27075 @ 0.00053449 = 14.4713 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: haha, people are actually moving to new hampshire ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances <<< you don't mean my drinking buddies who a) would take ANY explanation just as long as it doesn't mean gotta get off ass and b) would not be willing, broadly spea
mircea_popescu: king, to spend just about enough to buy half a rifle to defend $item ?
mircea_popescu: at the rate this is going, bitbet actually needs to buy a significant pool, which would go for oh... 10-20k ? i guess ?
mircea_popescu: if the concern trolls in chan are in fact shareholders and to any degree representative for shareholder sentiment (which i deeply doubt, but w/e)... oy vey.
mircea_popescu: one day is going to do somethingwild like i dunno, acquire a paper clip. watch out then.
ben_vulpes: shareholder sentiment seems most opinionated about s.mpoe
ben_vulpes: how did blowing the coins serve to defend bitbet?
ben_vulpes only a curious kourt klown
ben_vulpes: (couldn't possibly own stock, coins, can barely work a paste buffer much less gpg-tron, owns no real computers etc etc)
ben_vulpes: perhaps rifle cost is actually proportionate to value of $item! heck, a month like 7/15 would cover the loa^Hss.
ben_vulpes: or perhaps the bitbet rifle is proportionate to the value of $item were item btc.
ben_vulpes: and to beleabour the point, ka^H^Hbitbet the scouting party sacrificed to establish the new front.
ben_vulpes: but clearly these are all points that only dirigible captains may discuss over hawala shortwave.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00053449 = 6.6277 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00053188 = 19.3338 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00053141 = 20.5656 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00053082 = 35.6446 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00053011 = 32.3367 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47374 @ 0.00052996 = 25.1063 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00052983 = 23.0879 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: can discuss qs, waht's teh big deal.
mircea_popescu: ftr, "the color of money" is so fucking bad, tom cruise prolly wrote the screenplay.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100602 @ 0.0005324 = 53.5605 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15706 @ 0.00052983 = 8.3215 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42594 @ 0.00052916 = 22.539 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59650 @ 0.00052847 = 31.5232 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00053021 = 15.9063 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00053021 = 7.5025 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00052986 = 23.1019 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 534 @ 0.00263851 = 1.409 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00052838 = 2.6155 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77008 @ 0.00052815 = 40.6718 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4892 @ 0.00052766 = 2.5813 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00052865 = 17.3926 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40150 @ 0.00052765 = 21.1851 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24520 @ 0.00052762 = 12.9372 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Yonhap News Agency ... ( )
punkman: (from bbet comments)
punkman: "S. Korean Go player lowers expectations before facing Google AI"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47388 @ 0.00052756 = 25 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175312 @ 0.00052676 = 92.3473 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21104 @ 0.00052653 = 11.1119 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9937 @ 0.00052653 = 5.2321 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79250 @ 0.00052626 = 41.7061 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00052762 = 30.6547 BTC [+]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.82075928 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 05:15:34; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00052686 = 39.6726 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46392 @ 0.00052918 = 24.5497 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: in other random lulz, i wake up to three notifications from various parties spread about the world that transfers sent yesterday have not made it. upon examination, it's three times the case that the fiat world has failed to move money in 30 to 40 hours.
mircea_popescu: such visa much wow this is good for fiat.
shinohai: ^ FUCKIN LOL
shinohai: mircea_popescu can be an Indonesian plantation Lord
mircea_popescu: if they weren't so short.
asciilifeform: meanwhile...
asciilifeform: makeinfo --force -o guile-procedures.txt guile-procedures.texi || test -f guile-procedures.txt
asciilifeform: /bin/sh: line 1: 3309 Segmentation fault makeinfo --force -o guile-procedures.txt guile-procedures.texi
asciilifeform: Makefile:2567: recipe for target 'guile-procedures.txt' failed
asciilifeform: phhhreeeee as in fleaaadom !1111
thestringpuller: power outage knocked node offline. happy birthday to me :(
mircea_popescu: wait, so guile doesn't actually build ?!
asciilifeform: blocks 1,001 other proggies, too
asciilifeform: (e.g., geda)
mircea_popescu: clearly you must need an upgrade.
shinohai: I hope you didn't experience the same catastrophe I did thestringpuller
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this ~was~ upgrade. now will have to blacklist versions of 1,001 things.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller were you noding@home ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, just upgrade everything.
mircea_popescu: twice, to be sure.
asciilifeform: this ~was~ an 'upgrade everything, twice'
mircea_popescu: so do more of it.
asciilifeform: the most rational hatred of gentoo comes from folks who ask 'how do i freeze'
asciilifeform: because - you can't
asciilifeform: it is this amorphous amoebic dysentry.
mircea_popescu: so why would i want to run it ?
asciilifeform: you probably wouldn't ?
mircea_popescu: you keep making me think i would!
asciilifeform: well, this might be because there is not actually a usable other linux.
mircea_popescu: "son, don't you want to marry this woman ?" "notrly." "well, you should!" "really ?" "yeah. except she's ugly." "well then ?" "but the other women are even uglier." "dad, you're really doing a bum job here."
asciilifeform: 'the other women are goats with makeup on'
asciilifeform: which - they are.
asciilifeform: there is precisely one woman on the island.
asciilifeform: and she is from BingoBoingo's photos.
mircea_popescu: i'm still not marrying fugly.
asciilifeform: complete with gangrene.
asciilifeform: 'tis that, or fucking holes you auger in the earth yourself.
asciilifeform: which is prolly what comes next, for all of us.
asciilifeform: this, or to plant the coveted cunt-turnip.
mircea_popescu: seems altogether likely.
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( )
jurov: when i tested my mempool hack, I just dropped any priority requirements to have mempool filled quickly. I was surprised there were quite a few spammy tx that neither blockexplorer even knew of.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean neither ? there's ~500 various web explorers.
mircea_popescu: you actually traced them to the same two nodes ?
jurov: traced what?
mircea_popescu: lemme rephrase. "there are more web-based blockexplorer than two. why do you say neither."
jurov: i just checked in blockchain, blockr, and some 2-3 others
mircea_popescu: by and large web based ones have to prune very narrowly because well... memory.
mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall some discussion about running a b-a one, maybe last year.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00052597 = 18.2512 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45135 @ 0.00052597 = 23.7397 BTC [-]
PeterL: B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
mircea_popescu: seems altogether likely the whole keyserver model is getting eaten into g.
PeterL: also: gossipd implementation, pgp implementation, bitcoin implementation, kramer-shoop implementation, lisp implementation, c compiler, etc
mircea_popescu: pgp prolly also merging into g.
mircea_popescu: c compiler i suppose will have ~0 chances of happening, the horsies are pulling towards lisp.
mircea_popescu: and truly there's no good reason to even justify chip fab if you're not going to do something that radical.
mircea_popescu: and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the republic is currently short about twenty to fifty billion in filthy fiats and a few thousand to thirty million engineer hours, depending who's counting the hours. not depending on who's hiring the engineers tho, you ~can't hire for this.
mircea_popescu: which, in the grand scheme of things, is perfectly reasonable. argentina spends about that every coupla years and has ~icecream and steak to show for it.
mircea_popescu: to borrow a cristina-ism, "el proyecto nacional!!11"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83350 @ 0.00052597 = 43.8396 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00052597 = 29.7699 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up dicecoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00052597 = 27.2452 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 14:03:21; mircea_popescu: pgp prolly also merging into g.
asciilifeform: << block explorers as centralized www servers are retarded.
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 13:59:36; PeterL: B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
asciilifeform: yes, it is nice to link to a block or tx.
asciilifeform: but the link should be to LOCAL wwwtronic thing.
asciilifeform: as in, on YOUR box.
asciilifeform: blockchain means they all agree (or they do not, in which case you know that you have plague and when to put on the beak mask)
asciilifeform: << mircea_popescu found a chip fab between his sofa cushions yet ?
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 14:04:37; mircea_popescu: and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my idea being that whatever you call it, both g and this p will be running a lot of common code in the cyrpto
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mircea_popescu found a chip fab between his sofa cushions yet ? << i don't have enough money to outright do this. if i had, i'd be outright doing this.
mircea_popescu: but as it is, i'm at best useful as a seed. tho from years of reading the logs it's apparent to me seed-cultural is actually a lot more sorely needed than seed-capital, but that's aside.
mircea_popescu: and fwiw, i doubt anyone has the money, or had, in the past century. we're talking 50bn turkey dollars here. gates can, at most, make a foundation to greenhouse little hussein bahamas out in africa.
asciilifeform: makes sense.
asciilifeform: it would have to begin with time rented on ordinary fab, or the like.
asciilifeform: and the item would, in all likelihood, have to be an fpga. (that can be sold to heathens)
asciilifeform: i find the TOTAL absence of documented fpga on the planet , to be interesting.
asciilifeform: it is like a gaping black hole in your living room
asciilifeform: it is, what used to be called 'strategic good'
asciilifeform: (usg recently jailed some schmuck for 'exporting secret' of fpga.)
deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The Aviator and the flying Apple TV. -
mircea_popescu: with any luck, trump wins the election, we get 99 year lease on ft meade and martial law ten miles around the perimeter.
mircea_popescu: what ? makes a lot more sense than half his platform, not to mention all the others.
asciilifeform: what next, zhirinovsky wins in ru ?!
asciilifeform: t is exactly him
asciilifeform: and was grown for the same purpose.
mircea_popescu: purpose and history don't mix well
mircea_popescu: historically speaking.
jurov: nubbins for president!
mircea_popescu: hitler, also "grown" for "purpose". ask that pappen baffoon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.0005259 = 16.1977 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: man in his 70s is automatically a von papen, and not a hitler
mircea_popescu: this was true before the age of machine-enabled decay. recall the "90 yos get together to establish what 80 yos should retire" thing ?
asciilifeform: i suppose he'd make an ok brezhnev.
mircea_popescu: or yeltsin.
mircea_popescu: time for the us to surrender to the republic.
mircea_popescu: well, it's been time for years now, but the chinese ain't going away.
PeterL: asciilifeform are there currently any self-run block explorer programs?
asciilifeform: not afaik
asciilifeform: and certainly not trbtronic ones.
PeterL: would it be hard to make?
asciilifeform: unless phf finished his and forgot to say
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83000 @ 0.00052531 = 43.6007 BTC [-] {7}
asciilifeform: PeterL: not so hard, but the reasonable thing to make it in would be shiva
asciilifeform: and it needs some work
PeterL: hi nubbins`
nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.hanbot.-1:99ef4b3d8e17f481dc6e4cb4a2592501214f67972bd8fa6ff300daf8dba9f9fc
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for hanbot with note: nobody. doesn't belong here.
asciilifeform: hey nubbins`
nubbins`: what's new?
asciilifeform: notmuch.txt
nubbins`: cool.asc
asciilifeform: i forgot, what did nubbins` have against hanbot
nubbins`: nothing until she negrated me out of spite
nubbins`: then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.99800000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
nubbins`: funny how this is an ideas place and so many are willing to look past the ideas and focus on the delivery
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00052507 = 5.4082 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 16:56:31; nubbins`: then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
PeterL: she runs one of the mpif parts
asciilifeform: (and before this, was 'mpoepr'
asciilifeform: so hanbot is more assetronic than, e.g., asciilifeform.
nubbins`: so she used to do forum pr, but now doesn't
assbot: MPIF (F.MPIF) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
PeterL: uhh, did asciilifeform forget about s.nsa?
nubbins`: fair enough. there are some here who do less.
PeterL: * raises hand
nubbins`: in fact, F.MPIF has not performed any economic activity since October 2014
nubbins`: 0 in, 0 out every month since
nubbins`: but w/e
PeterL: they are certainly sitting on lots of cash
nubbins`: not belabouring the point, just pointing out that sauce from hanbot holds zero value, and if all she does is run the mouth and not contribute, she's just getting in the way.
nubbins`: basically just a vexual without the youtube links
asciilifeform: PeterL: assetronic is a thing
PeterL: I think you missvalue yourself on this scale
asciilifeform: i mean something very specific
PeterL: could you define it better then?
asciilifeform: i don't have an mpex account; am powerless to move so much as one share of anything; etc.
asciilifeform: have ~0 btc.
PeterL: you have a weird way of measuring things
asciilifeform: and my understanding to this day is that most #b-a folks originally appeared here because they were involved with one of these things
trinque: "oh, I'm only busy reinventing every piece of software and hardware this nascent cryptoculture needs to survive"
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: trinque: not so far off.
PeterL: and you don't see how what you do affects everybody else here?
trinque: I respectfully tip my hat to the burden of having seen far further than one can walk (at least yet)
asciilifeform: trinque: i was explaining to nubbins` et al that hanbot, whom he dislikes, is actually more of a proper 'asseteer' than i, whom he seems to respect.
asciilifeform: ty trinque.
nubbins`: asciilifeform fwiw i value ability and actions, and little else
asciilifeform: anyway i do not know hanbot very well, cannot speak for hanbot.
nubbins`: in fact, vexatiousness seems to be the only quality she's willing to share with the world
nubbins`: not worthy of much respect imo. opinions vary
asciilifeform: nubbins`: she wrote a spiffy story,
asciilifeform: !s shall be delivered
assbot: 46 results for 'shall be delivered' :
nubbins`: zzzzzzzzzz.
nubbins`: asciilifeform tell me something in the present tense and i'll maybe be interested
nubbins`: wrote, was, ran, etc.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc the present tense is mostly re: eulora, about which i know ~0.
asciilifeform: so i am powerless to help.
nubbins`: so that's both of us who see no merit to having her on the lordship, then
nubbins`: she's about as currently relevant as TAT
nubbins`: who, if you'll double-check the list...
asciilifeform: am i the last one who isn't obsessed with hunting for folks to throw out of the lordship thing >?
nubbins`: an obsession this is not. you asked, i answered
PeterL: should the lordship be so stringently policed?
nubbins`: PeterL stringent policing isn't a thing here anymore
nubbins`: financially or socially
asciilifeform: nubbins`: did mircea_popescu ever answer your deedbotted grievance thing ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform you read the logs as well as i. all are aware that the accusation remains unanswered
PeterL: did mircea_popescu ever say how his bitcoin handles conflicting transactions?
asciilifeform: PeterL: not iirc
PeterL: I guess it got missed in all the shouting
nubbins`: asciilifeform strange since all but hanbot and mp agree that nothing adds up
asciilifeform: the ~only thing i know about mpb is that 1) it is roughly compatible with 0.6 and 2) he fixed the db locks bug years ago, and shared with me the patch, a while back, and it is in trb
asciilifeform: nubbins`: from rereading the log, you can see that mircea_popescu considers the 17 btc to be a justified cost-of-war thing.
asciilifeform: he was driving the tank, and it got hit.
PeterL: today is presidential primary here in mich, I havn't decided how to vote, half tempted to write in Rand Paul as a protest against all the idiots still running
asciilifeform: vermin supreme!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59834 @ 0.00052618 = 31.4835 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: and wtf, i oppose throwing folks who are still in the battlefield, out of the lordship, srsly
nubbins`: asciilifeform what mircea_popescu considers it doesn't necessarily reflect what it actually is
danielpbarron: if mich is like conn, he can't vote vermin supreme if he was otherwise going to vote rand
nubbins`: asciilifeform consider the case that i may consider my cat a steed. if i mount it, what happens?
PeterL: no, in Michigan they give us a ballot with both parties and we get to pick wich one we vote on
asciilifeform: nubbins`: mrreauw.
nubbins`: anyway
danielpbarron: aha, here in Connecticut if you're registered republican you can't vote in democratic primary and vice versa
asciilifeform: ftr nubbins` has a first-class cat.
danielpbarron: i ran into this problem in 2012 when i wanted to vote for Ron Paul
PeterL: in michigan we don't even register as a party
nubbins`: asciilifeform just wondering: do you still think it's a drill?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: prolly not.
asciilifeform: but i also think that mircea_popescu explained his pov pretty well.
nubbins`: here's the straight dope. we all knew from the start that mp doesn't care when he's wrong, he just bulldozes. countless examples exist, i don't care to find them for you. kako agrees that the expense is fraudulent, jurov agrees, many others agree; the only ones who don't agree are you, who seem quite willing to let kako take the hit in order to maintain peace, and hanbot, who obviously doesn't count as an opinion
asciilifeform: which was, approx., 'i drive the tank and if you don't like how, find another'
nubbins`: mp's initial silence on the Nk, Nm node stuff until his other arguments were busted implies strongly that it's total bullshit,
nubbins`: his ad hominem attacks (called my wife an ugly broad!) reflected quite poorly on him as a person and as a leader of anything meaningful
PeterL: so, as I have been watching my trb node sync the past three months (am I the only person who thinks this takes way too long?) it seems like it spends alot of time trying to connect to nodes and timing out?
danielpbarron: it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. As for the others going along with your rabble rousing, that only makes me suspicious of them.
nubbins`: his inability to listen when he's offered advice is off-putting, and his inability to admit error when it's glaringly obvious is vulgar
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it is difficult to have a useful discussion in the midst of 'your mother eats electric eeels. -- no YOUR mother. .. etc'
nubbins`: he's a small, sad man, nothing more than a mark karpeles with better book-learning. lucked his way into a windfall by recognizing bitcoin as an opportunity early on; just hasn't fallen on the sword yet.
trinque: asciilifeform: aha
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: nubbins`: ^ deed address generator
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron>it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. << that's beause kako had the private convo with me, not you
danielpbarron: and what is this, the non violent language center? who cares if someone used an "ad hominem" already. In my experience, uses of this term are stupid.
danielpbarron: what's next I'm gonna cite private conversations with God?
trinque: curl -s | python
trinque: 1KDzk3vd7TeXtgA3PRY6xyz2qBodPVkPTx
jurov: danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins`: it is difficult to have a useful discussion in the midst of 'your mother eats electric eeels. -- no YOUR mother. .. etc' << agreed, which is why i found hanbot's vulgarity very disheartening; she only jumped into the conversation to insult and vexate. mp's bringing my wife into it was a ludicrous response to me accusing him of fraud. my wife's not in the picture.
danielpbarron: oh yeah? where's that?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: did kako sign the bbet-is-sad letter ?
asciilifeform: because i don't remember seeing his sig on it
trinque: as for my perspective, the tools either work or they don't. the WoT, deedbot, forum, so on, sorts itself or doesn't.
nubbins`: <+jurov>danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times << HEH
nubbins`: asciilifeform kako's mouth is shut for the time being
asciilifeform: nubbins`: let's see if we can agree re: what the dispute is properly about
asciilifeform: presently i think it was about how bbet is run.
nubbins`: it's about how #b-a is run
asciilifeform: bbet specifically.
PeterL: is #b-a run, or does it just kinda go by itself?
nubbins`: PeterL it's run
asciilifeform: and from my reading of the listing article, it appears to very clearly imply that it is mircea_popescu's thing and he can take the ball and go home, etc.
nubbins`: asciilifeform agreed, he has held all the cards since day 1.
jurov: asciilifeform: there's the simple question, if sending zerofee tx is acting "in good faith", that #b-a forum could answer
asciilifeform: but i don't recall nubbins` being sad since day1
nubbins`: the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx
nubbins`: asciilifeform i'm not sad today!
danielpbarron: so then there is no problem by your own admission nubbins`
nubbins`: danielpbarron the logic doesn't follow, please explain showing your workings?
PeterL: so the only recourse shareholders have is to sell if they disagree with his decisions, maybe they could have brought suit for negligence before the rota when that was a thing?
danielpbarron: nubbins`> the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx << QED. STFU
nubbins`: lol.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i am not seeing a bbet shareholder stampede
nubbins`: so it's okay to commit fraud, as long as the business you're defrauding is on your exchange?
danielpbarron: there was a little bit of selling, i was on the recieving end of it
PeterL: there was some selling the past couple days
nubbins`: danielpbarron seems to think that one cannot point out fraud if the fraudster is party to the fraud
nubbins`: now there's a logical leap
nubbins`: sure you don't wanna explain again?
jurov: asciilifeform: the price fell by 40% last month
PeterL: some of the smaller bids were removed from the orderbook, but the big ones are still there
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i do not agree that the 17 was 'personal expense.'
danielpbarron: that's not true jurov
asciilifeform: this is the part where i part from nubbins`'s interp.
nubbins`: asciilifeform fair enough and duly retracted
nubbins`: i still believe it was so, in the absence of conflicting evidence
asciilifeform: so i do not see the ' mircea_popescu is cheating people ' angle.
danielpbarron: there hasn't been nearly enough volume on S.BBET to claim any sort of price falling, except for about a year ago when 10 or so bitcoin worth brought it from the 40s to the teens
nubbins`: shame, but apparently i cannot change your mind with facts
trinque: in the absence of assets it seems the only way to keep bbet running
trinque: this even assuming that it was entirely a mistake and so on
asciilifeform: i could see a ' bbet shareholders believe that bbet is mismanaged ' angle, but ~it is THEIR business~ and not mine, and their one option is to get off the bus, as per the articles.
nubbins`: danielpbarron that was probably all of the non-mp investors leaving.
danielpbarron: 10 btc is nothing
nubbins`: bbet is nothing
trinque: faced with "shut bitbet down" or "gift bitbet the funds to keep running" or "loan them", what's the right thing to do?
nubbins`: look at the monthly statements
nubbins`: you'd make a better profit bumming change outside the metro
danielpbarron: there is no right thing. It's Mircea's thing like it or not
trinque: companies make errors that cost money, either due to their own mistakes or externalities; that's life
nubbins`: trinque that's not the question
PeterL: bbet makes like 1-10 btc per month, it might still be overpriced
asciilifeform: nubbins`: do you understand the essence of what mircea_popescu said to you ? about 'rabble rousing' ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform got a link? i don't think he's said anything to me lately
asciilifeform: 'rabbling' is a Bad Thing and subtracts from otherwise good argument.
jurov: good arguments went unheard
nubbins`: asciilifeform do you disagree that mp's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from otherwise good ___?
asciilifeform: bbet is not demoocracy-powered and won't turn into it no matter how many tears.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
danielpbarron: nubbins`, you sound like a redditard
nubbins`: Professional does not imply any restriction of form.ii You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
nubbins`: for emphasis: Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
nubbins`: "too much rabble, not listening"
danielpbarron: "do you disagree that X's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from Y" is like a USG memo card for filipino spammers
trinque: there's a difference between offending someone with the truth as a matter of tactics, and doing it to the exclusion of sense
nubbins`: danielpbarron direct mirror response to asciilifeform's statement, keep up or stfu
asciilifeform: let's imagine i agreed with nubbins` now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00052619 = 30.6243 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: what am i to ~do~ ?
asciilifeform: i don't even own bbet stock
asciilifeform: and if i did, the stock doesn't even vote.
asciilifeform: i could... sell it.
asciilifeform: this stock, that i never had.
nubbins`: trinque i'd like to think i've provided facts in an offensive manner
PeterL: you could short the stock?
asciilifeform: sold! [imaginary stock, for imaginary coin.] satisfied ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform IDGAF about bbet shareholders.
nubbins`: at all.
nubbins`: what i do give a shit about is people owning up to their mistakes
nubbins`: mp's behaviour is forum-level.
jurov: asciilifeform: so if i have an opinion about a fraud that does not directyl concern mne, i should stay silent? cuz this is not a democracy?
nubbins`: jurov correct. fraud accusations are NOT welcome here.
nubbins`: if you see an error in a financial statement, do not speak up.
jurov: hanbot was not directly involved in many frauds, but raising hell from her is wseen as good and proper
trinque: define fraud in the context of an unregistered corporation, and what the recourse shall be under no laws which define fraud?
trinque: sell and negrate.
nubbins`: jurov a blessing from the king will do that.
trinque: that's it
nubbins`: trinque sell, negrate, smear reputation if desired
nubbins` invites all to count the number of pages of woodcollector threads on the forum
danielpbarron: so go start a forum thread
nubbins`: don't feel like it. what's with all the imperatives? nobody to boss around in the trailer park?
danielpbarron: not this time of year no
nubbins`: my sincere condolences
jurov: trinque so, i'll throw your funds at coinbr by sending around zerofee tx, malformed mpex requests, etc. you'll only negrate me and do nothing else?
trinque: what is the else?
jurov: being loud at the forum
trinque: I haven't negrated anyone for being loud!
nubbins`: ^ as admin of CoinBr, the current situation directly affects jurov. maybe that's why jurov and kako are the only ones not 100% complicit in this scheme
nubbins`: he doesn't wanna list a scam fund any more than kako wants to own one
danielpbarron: jurov, i don't see the relation. shareholders of bbet never had an expection to control what happens with bbet funds
jurov: you have control over your coinbr funds? how?
PeterL: danielpbarron they have an expectation that their funds will be used with fiduciary integrity
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're steadfastly dodging the point that MP's fraudulent math is the issue. IDGAF if it's bbet or him and vexual playing dice
danielpbarron: well isn't that the expectation? the whole point of the broker is to hold the funds, and place the orders on my behalf..
danielpbarron: i don't agree there was any fraud
ben_vulpes: jurov: how frequently do mpex withdrawals go out with 0-fee txns?
nubbins`: danielpbarron that disagreement is essentially the only one on the table
nubbins`: whether mp committed fraud (intentional or unintentional)
nubbins`: some feel yes, some feel no
nubbins`: everything else is a discussion surrounding that, or idiots telling adults not to have the discussion
danielpbarron: i said i was ok with what he ended up doing, ~before~ he did it
nubbins`: ok, great. your opinion is noted.
PeterL: danielpbarron if mircea_popescu had sent the funds to his wallet and spent them on hookers and blow, would that count as fraud or would you let him asses that as "the cost of doing business"?
jurov: ben_vulpes: mpex withdrawals don't come into picture, my withdrawals would, if i sent them zerofee
danielpbarron: when that bbet february statement came out, i read it and breathed a sigh of relief, not knowing how controversial it apparently was
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: and what precisely the claim's root? that mircea_popescu paid twice? that the funds were his and the loan a breach of contract?
danielpbarron: PeterL, i've never run a business, i don't know if those things are needed or what
nubbins`: ben_vulpes that transaction B was popescu's personal funds, which he sent of his own free will, AKA a generous donation to bettors.
jurov: and the picture is, that some people think that bitbet's funds are at full disposal of mircea_popescu and he can send zerofee tx and all is okay... while coinbr, somehow can not, because "broker"?
ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes if you pay the pizza guy with your own money, EVEN IF YOU'RE AT WORK, you don't get to automatically bill work for the pizza.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes not trivially, you'd actually have to click a mouse a bunch of times or w/e
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: well i do but that's a special case.
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: some perl.
nubbins`: ben "vous" instead of you; it's a failing of english
ben_vulpes: i know i know.
PeterL: for the record, I view it as a stupid mistake on mp's part, not fraud, so I am fine with having sold my shares I will just let things be
trinque: but that's entirely relevant; management/owners *do* get to make those kinds of decisions
trinque: insofar as an agreement between the owners defines such things
nubbins`: PeterL the thing about stupid mistakes is that if you realize they've happened and you DON'T CORRECT THEM, they turn into fraud.
danielpbarron: i don't agree with the stupid mistake hypothesis either
PeterL: think of it this way: guy makes a bad investment and loses money for his firm, does he have to personally repay it or does the company take the loss?
trinque: "I unilaterally decided to loan the company X amount emergency funds to keep the lights on." << this is not unheard of, if the officer who made the decision had the power to do so
jurov: PeterL: that's question of good faith
jurov: is sending zerofee tx acting in good faith?
ben_vouspes: PeterL: ah, that's simple! traders get fired as soon as they mean revert.
danielpbarron: trinque, and since the alternative was apparently liquidating bbet shares at 0.00001 btc per share, it's absurd that anyone arguing in favor of this outcome has the shareholders interests at heart
nubbins`: trinque poor analogy
trinque: perhaps, how so?
PeterL: he did have a loan from MPIF in the past (to cover a previous mistake), so bitbet having a loan has precedence
trinque: *precedent
ben_vouspes: weeeel, previous mistake was overpaying investors not double-paying bettors, was it not?
nubbins`: paying the light bill is when the company purchases a service (light) for money
nubbins`: giving bettors a free handout is when you just give money away
PeterL: it was an overpayment, yes, just like this is an overpayment
PeterL: should he ask the bettors to refund the money?
danielpbarron: i'm curious what would be the argument today if there had never been a transaction B, and transactions A1-An were still nowhere to be found..
nubbins`: if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back.
nubbins`: danielpbarron why are you curious about something that didn't happen?
nubbins`: why that specific non-occurrence, anyway?
nubbins`: i'm curious what would be the argument if mp had a vagina
PeterL: danielpbarron we would be asking him to talk to a miner and have the txn included in a block
danielpbarron: at what cost?
nubbins`: or if hanbot contributed anything useful to the realm
danielpbarron: apparently any cost >0 would be fraud..
nubbins`: <+PeterL>should he ask the bettors to refund the money? <<< probably not.
jurov: danielpbarron: miner would ask much less than 17btc, dontcha think?
nubbins`: he could, if he wished, but it would be a lol.
danielpbarron: yeah that's a non-starter
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're inventing hypothetical situations and saying "apparently this'd be fraud"
nubbins`: come back to earth
PeterL: if the cost is worth the reputation of bitbet paying out thier winnings, then he should pay it
danielpbarron: i thought this was a principled stand. Now it's just that 17 was too much to pay?
nubbins`: PeterL bitbet has quite a poor reputation, if you haven't noticed
nubbins`: danielpbarron again, not interested in your hypotheticals
nubbins`: you stated your stance
danielpbarron: as have you.
asciilifeform: i think nubbins` was arguing that sending tx b. was sinful.
nubbins`: asciilifeform no.
asciilifeform: because of where its inputs had to have come from.
PeterL: I would say getting the bets paid is not worth 17 btc
nubbins`: charging tx B to bitbet's liabilities was sinful.
mircea_popescu: lol check it out, still with this ?
nubbins`: sending B was noble until he put it on bitbet's books.
danielpbarron: incidently it's none of our places to say what it was worth
mircea_popescu shudders to think what happens if a woman tells nubbins off or something
asciilifeform: nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ?
asciilifeform: or ought to ? or what.
asciilifeform: and hey there's mircea_popescu .
PeterL: <nubbins`> if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back. << you would expect the power company to refund you
mircea_popescu: really... could we conduct the nutso convention on tardstalk, reddit or whatever usual venue ?
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? <<<...what? link plz.
jurov: mircea_popescu: only if hanbot argues against fraudsters as usual
nubbins`: PeterL i would, yes. mp would not expect the lucky bettors to refund him.
nubbins`: jurov ooo fightin words
nubbins`: mircea_popescu seems to feel that fraud accusations have no place in #b-a
PeterL: as a lucky bettor, I would be willing to refund the extra winnings, minus a "processing fee"
nubbins`: PeterL that's your perogative. i would keep them.
mircea_popescu: she may be open for hire, inquire with her.
assbot: Monty Python - Spam - YouTube ... ( )
jurov: lel can i imagine how would hanbot go if nefario, inaba or anyone billed such "expenses" to their shareholders
nubbins`: shinohai what's that, a joke? spamming the chan with a video about spam?
danielpbarron: PeterL, this is like the "I would gladly pay higher taxes" argument. So go, pay. Make a gracious donation.
mircea_popescu: jurov plox to quote rather than imagine. this imagination hasn't served you well in the past, won't start to at any point.
nubbins`: shinohai nb
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72176 @ 0.00052466 = 37.8679 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: but by and large, the problem seems to be that either throgh simple immersion, or sheer intellectual laziness, or a mix or whatever, lots and lots of people have SERIOIS
nubbins`: ooo, mp implies that he doesn't respect jurov's intelligence
mircea_popescu: problems getting out of the fiat garbage.
mircea_popescu: which is fine - but i also don't and won't entertain any of it.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu also won't entertain serious allegations of fraud, to nobody's surprise
asciilifeform: i think i have an accurate model tho. (which is 'bbet is mircea_popescu's toy, he can take ball and go home if he wants')
nubbins`: asciilifeform we get it, he has a free pass from you
mircea_popescu: yes, lordlist was seeded, like everything else (bitcoin included) with very low effort , and very low bars, which is how people like nubbins made it in. this is both fine and the right thing.
asciilifeform: why does he need pass from me, l0l
PeterL: <asciilifeform> nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? << the beauty of publicly published financials is that we can call out things we thing are misrepresented
mircea_popescu: as time goes on, the bar raises, and many/most/whatever can't cope.
mircea_popescu: this is also expected.
nubbins`: asciilifeform he doesn't. yet still you provide.
mircea_popescu: PeterL not in those terms.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: as you know, i very frequently disagree with him. you could prolly make a whole book of these.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu's statements about the bar raising seem to directly back up my assertion that hanbot needs to get the heave-ho.
mircea_popescu: the beauty of the internet generally is that otherwise unemployable bits of social refuse can offer their unsolicited takes on things.
mircea_popescu: if the people who matter think anything of it, it may see the life of day. if not... a well.
nubbins`: asciilifeform always a soft disagree, never digging a heel in.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu is actually describing hanbot scathingly well here
nubbins`: or maybe she has a job playing diablo somewhere?
nubbins`: wait, no, she "runs" F.MPIF which has been inactive for 18 months
nubbins`: i have no idea why some of you cannot see this place as nothing more than a "cool kids club"
PeterL: mircea_popescu but clearly there is the expectation that people inside your WoT will say something if they think your report is wrong
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: PeterL aha.
nubbins`: looky: if anyone feels up to the task, they can take the lordship list and put each member's past accomplishments and current works under their name. maybe see once and for all who cuts the mustard and who cuts the cheese.
mircea_popescu: the matter to be resolved exactly one of two ways : fixing the report or fixing the wot.
nubbins`: "nassim taleb" lol
nubbins`: remember when mp was trying to get him in here?
mircea_popescu: we had an idiocy of ~this caliber back about three-four years ago, which newcomers particularly bored and people without anything to do are invited to read.
nubbins` laughs until out of breath
nubbins`: taleb hanging out on irc with a bunch of drunks and permanent disability folks
mircea_popescu: at that point, i was trying to get a court system off the ground, similarly with random people as judges.
mircea_popescu: traditionally, in the common law at least, the jury is the trier of fact ; with the judge establishing the legal meaning of those facts.
nubbins`: the rota was a brutal flop too
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
nubbins`: remember the massive money-losing loophole?
nubbins`: mp's ad-hoc approach to life fails more often than it succeeds
mircea_popescu: this system worked more or less for a while, which is to say up to maybe the 1920s. back then people had some sort of relation to reality.
mircea_popescu: it broke down, because by now social consensus is the principal guide for people. and so... the trier of fact established some sort of social consensus and was very surprised when my reaction was to simply disolve it.
mircea_popescu: because apparently i don't know how the world works, and haven't properly groked the memo about how "reality is enacted by convention" or somesuch.
nubbins`: logic and maths are now a matter of social consensus?
nubbins`: wow.
nubbins`: literally speechless
asciilifeform: nubbins`: dead pilots in the '30s-'40s were sometimes found with the control joystick literally torn from its moorings. they pulled against jammed flight surfaces and physically destroyed the stick. it did not help.
PeterL: mircea_popescu if you were to start rota now, what would you do differently?
mircea_popescu: i would not consider unqualified people.
mircea_popescu: but now i have the ~option~ to do this. back then, i didn't.
mircea_popescu: construction, willy-nilly, proceeds on scaffolding.
mircea_popescu: which yes, is essentially flotsam.
nubbins`: the funny thing about all of this is that if i'd approached the sitation with humbleness and humility, the report would already be changed
nubbins`: but because i went on the offensive, mircea_popescu simply cannot back down.
nubbins`: incidentally this was the idea from the start
nubbins`: kako was v dismayed
asciilifeform: nubbins`: at least try leaving the joystick attached.
nubbins`: begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
nubbins`: but, fuck mp, so the humiliation proceeded
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see how it's not fully torn, but hey, maybe just me.
nubbins`: note that S.BBET feb 2016 financials remain unsigned by kako.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: if kako disagrees with mp, i expect that he will put this in writing and sign ?
asciilifeform: rather than play 'telephone'
nubbins`: asciilifeform yes, i expect.
asciilifeform: so then.
nubbins`: so then?
asciilifeform: wait for him to wake up ?
nubbins`: sure. in the meantime, i'll point out that he's had ample opportunity to sign the financials
nubbins`: but has not, so far
asciilifeform: i can see this with naked eye, sure.
nubbins`: you can also see with naked eye where kako asserts that mircea_popescu broke 3.2 (d) of listing agreement?
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
asciilifeform: also nubbins` seems to be painting kakobrekla as a helpless pet of mircea_popescu ?
nubbins`: "i was not even aware of any of it" vs 3.2 (d)'s text: "All decisions with regards to any aspect of BitBet ... will require unanimous agreement of all the representatives of BitBet."
asciilifeform: i do not think kakobrekla would agree.
nubbins`: asciilifeform your assumption is incorrect, i am painting no such picture
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 18:14:50; nubbins`: begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
nubbins`: i am guessing that kako is furiously fighting this fire behind the scenes
nubbins`: asciilifeform there was no other way for me to say it.
mircea_popescu: so i've been looking for some sort of color revolution pronz to go with this derpy maidan thing, and the best i could find is i guess
mircea_popescu: will hafta do.
nubbins`: the guy said that if i made mp angry, mp would dig in his heels and not change mind no matter what.
nubbins`: and then i made mp angry
nubbins`: and kako got quite upset and said thanks a lot for ruining any chance of getting mp to reverse his decision
nubbins`: which is, well... it is what it is.
nubbins`: you can make of it what you will
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i don't even have a dog in the fight, understand this.
nubbins`: asciilifeform nor do i, understand this!
asciilifeform: nubbins`: you had bbet stock, no ?
nubbins`: i'm fighting for the side of logic and reason
nubbins`: fuck no
nubbins`: have you seen the financials?
nubbins`: i don't mean feb's
nubbins`: but in general
PeterL: it has more revenue than S.NSA
nubbins`: PeterL anything with revenue has more revenue than s.nsa
hanbot: at the rate this is going, i'd almost rather be sent back to the forum, honestly.
nubbins`: hanbot they wouldn't have you
nubbins`: talking about bitcoin doesn't make you a part of bitcoin, etc
nubbins`: nobody cares who your bf is
nubbins`: asciilifeform i don't own any MPEx stocks, nor am i shorting any MPEx stocks
mircea_popescu: ;;seen phf
gribble: phf was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <phf> "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what happened to him.
nubbins` is one of the few to be paid in money for services provided rather than in shares
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's been gone for longer, before.
nubbins`: understand that being "paid" by mp in shares is just a fish hook
mircea_popescu: yeh. i got this feeling he was hatching somerthing.
asciilifeform: so prolly not dead.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: all shares are fish-hooks? you're a 'jam today' kinda fella ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform no, that's not what i said.
nubbins`: i said shares as remuneration is a fish hook
nubbins`: consider: mircea_popescu wanted to pay for eulora heraldics in stock warrant only
nubbins`: i said no, that's retarded
nubbins`: so got $12k bezzlars worth of btc for the actual work and a fat stock warrant for free
nubbins`: if i'd not recevied any cash, but stock warrant only -- i'd be as broke as you, no?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: do you think it would have made a difference to me, if i had been paid $12k ?
asciilifeform: for one thing, usg would take ~half. and that would buy, wahat, a month of time.
asciilifeform: which i'd mostly have to spend looking for new work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's severances like these days, for non-monkey non-management sorta jobs ? is it true, ibm offer ~what everyone really gets, coupla k's an a lolipop ?
asciilifeform: and also try to understand mircea_popescu's very valid observation re: how turning people into salarymen lowers them into pederasty.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: variable. but there is a boojum! typically you have to sign 'noncompete' to get the severance. and you have to be sacked, can't leave on own free will. and the sacking can't be 'for cause', etc, etc.
asciilifeform: lotta crud.
mircea_popescu: iirc cali didn't uphold noncompetes for professional folk.
asciilifeform: 3 mo. of wage, is typical.
asciilifeform: cali, aha.
asciilifeform: permitted elsewhere.
mircea_popescu: if that still stands as good law.
asciilifeform: iirc it does.
assbot: My Sofa is a Sidechain ... ( )
fluffypony: Jorge Stolfi at his best
asciilifeform: fluffypony: blatant rip of
assbot: Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine ... ( )
fluffypony: sure, but what if that's just a blatant rip off of this:
assbot: Pet Rock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins`: do you think it would have made a difference to me, if i had been paid $12k ? <<< i'm not saying you should have taken the same amount of $$ for running s.nsa as i should have for a dozen hours' work.
nubbins`: you're putting all sorts of words in my mouth today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68700 @ 0.00052636 = 36.1609 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: i'm saying that by paying his workers only in shares, mp gets people to work for free.
PeterL: asciilifeform would it have made a difference if you were paid $120k?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14988 @ 0.00052434 = 7.8588 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: under the illusion that it's for some greater good.
nubbins`: consider that MP has enough money to pay alf double current salary for next decade, cardano could be out in the world, but chooses not to
nubbins`: because he can just give alf a pile of useless shares that he apparently can't even afford to cash out
nubbins`: and there's one more talking head floating around here on mp's side
assbot: The Lordship list, third year. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
nubbins`: you're not doing anything useful, are you?
nubbins`: "being a lord is not an empty honor, but the honor of recognition, by your peers, for a useful purpose. If you aren't doing anything you broadly speaking can't be one, and if you are one it is upon you to show up in court and help settle matters (and in the process help the other lords understand you and predict your future moves)"
nubbins`: also, your fief (F.MPIF) went into hibernation only 6 months after you made it to the lordship list. not a great showing by any measure.
mats: the drama continues
PeterL: mpif is run by mircea_popescu, hanbot only does the throwing coins at bitbet part
nubbins`: lol.
nubbins`: no, she doesn't.
nubbins`: go look at F.MPIF statement, show me coins thrown.
nubbins`: protip: there are none
assbot: F.MPIF on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
PeterL: just a sec, I'll find it eventually
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 18:50:50; mats: the drama continues
nubbins`: PeterL october 2014 is the most recent month there was any economic activity in/out
assbot: Line betting on BitBet, January 2016 | The Whet ... ( )
PeterL: I don't see one for february
PeterL: all-time loss at 3.40250561
nubbins`: PeterL: not only that, but the information contained in the post you linked just doesn't appear in the F.MPIF jan financials
assbot: MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
nubbins`: PeterL: so if hanbot was betting for F.MPIF PC, why's it not in F.MPIF financials?
PeterL: usually it is there as a small change in the total assets
nubbins`: nope.
nubbins`: no sign.
jurov: she publishes that on
nubbins`: oh, wait, sorry, there it is.
nubbins`: it's just buried in the "assets" section instead of "in/out"
assbot: MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
nubbins`: i guess the bet money didn't go out.
nubbins`: PeterL ok so she runs a F.MPIF PC that.... loses money on bitbet.
PeterL: I guess no bets made or resolved in feb
nubbins`: sounds like something you'd give your gf to keep her busy.
PeterL: right, now you get it, serious stuff
nubbins`: yeah, nothing in feb. guess it was getting in the way of diablo
PeterL: should take about 20 seconds a month
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32508 @ 0.00052434 = 17.0452 BTC [-]
PeterL: perhaps the betting strategy should be revised?
nubbins`: "all-time loss at 3.40250561."
nubbins`: perhaps the manager should be revised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30142 @ 0.00052421 = 15.8007 BTC [-] {2}
PeterL: but there should still be a statement for february, even if it just a signed statement "no bets made or resolved in February"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony is this some sort of dig at monero or something ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: which thing?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, stolfi's nonsense.
fluffypony: no, it's a review of the Bitcoin Sidechains whitepaper
fluffypony: best read consecutively or in conjunction
mircea_popescu: bah, talk of a good idea badly executed. why is this schmuck so humourless ?
mircea_popescu: "As for requirement [4], my sofa may have bugs, such as mites, spiders, or maybe even fleas. However, I have found no evidence on the web that such invertebrates have the power to cause theft of anything, much less theft of digital assets on other sidechains."
mircea_popescu: i... get it. ok. very funny. sigh.
nubbins`: PeterL should be, yeah.
nubbins`: maybe hanbot lost 17 btc and she & mp are trying to come up with some linear algebra to explain it
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 04:52:38; hanbot: hey mircea_popescu, is it okay if i defer this month's pc4 report and combine in april?
mircea_popescu: PeterL here's the thing : in my scrollback you appear as engaged in a lengthy monologue which twice now highlighted me. are you going to take a break on your own or do i have to ignore you for a while ?
nubbins`: next step: mircea_popescu ignores people who talk to nubs
nubbins`: quite the kingdom
PeterL: mircea_popescu I am talking with nubbins`, I guess you have him on ignore still?
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "still" ?!
nubbins`: PeterL there were a handful of double-month reports late last year too
nubbins`: i guess hanbot plays so much diablo and loses so much bet money that doing the books once a month is an unbearable burden
PeterL: was it yesterday you said you were adding him to ignore? I was not sure if you still ignored him
nubbins`: PeterL offending mp is a one way street
mircea_popescu: aite, so now you're sure.
PeterL: I was going to ask earlier, but it seemed like a silly question
nubbins`: PeterL he'd find it way harder to dodge the fraud allegations otherwise
PeterL: and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
nubbins`: well, y'know, bruised egos are tender.
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1AhQe7VKxvAcnEBbt9mt5iwwxY9LeKbJtR ... ( )
nubbins`: ben_vouspes i'm no blockchain analysis expert but that doesn't look like bitbet's money to me
nubbins`: if you trace the chain all the way back, it actually appears to be MPEx's money :0
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 6ad6de39290431f2077c3e972d72e4fae7eb3bf384a966b9bf7f1c0832e6a7c1 ... ( )
nubbins`: the 1Gpng output gets successively split up into a bunch of different pieces, and a chunk of it eventually ends up paying out the bettors
nubbins`: so, put another way: mircea_popescu borrowed money from MPEx, sent it to bettors, and charged the expense to BitBet
nubbins`: kakobrekla jurov ^ gibi-lol
nubbins`: asciilifeform ^
nubbins`: bbl lunch / lollercoaster
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 17:51:29; ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
danielpbarron: ;;seen williamdunne
gribble: williamdunne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 25 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <williamdunne> But yah
asciilifeform: nubbins` what's that
nubbins`: asciilifeform that's funds moving out of MPEx address and ending up as inputs to tx "B"
nubbins`: mumble mumble conflict of interest
nubbins`: mumble mumble MPEx funds being sent to bettors and BitBet getting stuck with the bill
williamdunne: danielpbarron: Hello Daniel
nubbins`: asciilifeform feel free to verify on your own node; may be incorrect
nubbins`: interestingly, 11.5 BTC gets broken off and sent to gabriel_laddel at one point.
nubbins`: sorry, "gabrielradio", my bad
danielpbarron: even if some came or went to lizzard hitler's address it wouldn't prove a damn because this kind of analysis can only be held against ~fiat~ institutions
asciilifeform: nubbins`: fwiw pretty much all of my own coin would appear as 'mpex funds' per your analysis.
danielpbarron: ie : in a qntra about silk road cops running with drug funds or the like
nubbins`: asciilifeform but the difference is that your coin wasn't sent to bettors.
nubbins`: anyway, only looked into it at ben_vouspes urging
nubbins`: interested parties are free to make their own decisions on what it means
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2016 02:24:48; assbot: You rated user gabrielradio on 14-Oct-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Apprentice Trilema translator..
williamdunne: Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian?
williamdunne: I'm down for working on that, I started learning last week funnily enough..
danielpbarron: where've ya been? for the other 24 weeks?
williamdunne: I got kicked, spent a while picking myself up. Wasn't reading the logs very often, only Trilema and Qntra
williamdunne: Oh and Contravex a little
danielpbarron: kicked?
williamdunne: Difficulty in my personal life, nothing I couldn't recover from (obviously(
ben_vouspes: fucking giga-lol
ben_vouspes: mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true.
danielpbarron: what is personal life? is there impersonal life?
nubbins`: ben_vouspes biggest lol yet.
nubbins`: it basically violates every document MP has ever signed
nubbins`: kakobrekla ^
nubbins`: danielpbarron for many, working hours are impersonal life
williamdunne: danielpbarron: the part of life I wouldn't talk in public
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00052402 = 35.843 BTC [-] {6}
nubbins`: ben_vouspes i can't see any other explanation. mircea_popescu claimed ownership of B's inputs, and they came from MPEx. Best-case scenario, mircea_popescu legitimately received the funds from MPEx and paid the bettors out of pocket. Worse-case scenario, he paid the bettors directly with MPEx funds.
nubbins`: this is the final nail in the fraud coffin
nubbins`: i'm just gonna fuck off for a while and see if anyone bothers to care about all this evidence
nubbins`: cheers
ben_vouspes: all over 17 btc.
ben_vouspes: quelle fucking triste
fluffypony: quelle triste destinée!
danielpbarron: !rated diana_coman
assbot: You rated user diana_coman on 21-Jul-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: fellow Eulorian; gatherer of groceries, and builder of bots.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.diana_coman.3:e874ab9653fc33c3f7ec679664111545a565b8d762a8c8d273d8ff060da2c379
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 3 with note: Fellow Euloran; trainer of noobs, builder of bots, gatherer of groceries.
williamdunne: Seems like I chose an exciting time to reappear
williamdunne: Gonna go logdiving
PeterL: bring some popcorn
williamdunne: Whereabouts does all this drama begin?
danielpbarron: i thought you read qntra
PeterL: about last friday?
PeterL: so the 3rd or 4th?
williamdunne: I must have missed this part on Qntra.. ok I'm going in
PeterL: see the "miner problem" qntra article
williamdunne: Yeah the only one I didn't read seemingly
williamdunne: Hot stuff
ben_vouspes: williamdunne: and woefully incomplete. you'll need to read logs back to friday or thursday of last week to get a notion of what's going on.
williamdunne: Yeah I'm on Friday currently
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.00052721 = 13.9183 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: williamdunne is roughly around the time i finished reading qntra A Miner Problem article, with the first shot fired shortly thereafter
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00052649 = 7.055 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44990 @ 0.00052767 = 23.7399 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Art project so far, base for impoler and stuff above. 20' 7" of tree
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.85000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
deedbot-: [Qntra] New Cross Platform Malware Depends on JVM -
solrodar: nubbins`: I was also paid directly from the same mpex address for this work:
assbot: [OPEN] Callgraph for therealbitcoin, in SVG format. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
solrodar: all indications were that the payment was in a personal capacity, and it never appeared on the statements of mpex or nsa
solrodar: looks like he's in the habit of using an mpex wallet for personal expenses
solrodar: that isn't necessarily fraudulent, as long as everything's properly accounted for
nubbins`: solrodar petalol, do you have the tx handy?
danielpbarron: even if all the addresses were emptied to 1bitcoineater it wouldn't matter.
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 ... ( )
nubbins`: lel.
nubbins`: my money, company's money, w/e
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
nubbins`: yotta-lol.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
solrodar: of course he would argue that what constitutes "company's money" does not necessarily map directly to addresses on the blockchain
nubbins`: if a single bitcoin address is being used for both "company money" and personal money, that's setting off alarm bells
nubbins`: do you know what they call it when the CEO uses the company's bank account as his own personal bank account also?
danielpbarron: this is like when some celeb gets outed as a womanizer and all the girlies out out of nowhere to retroactively claim he touched her
nubbins`: danielpbarron hush, dear heart
nubbins`: we know it hurts
danielpbarron: i am only growing my confident in my position
nubbins`: solrodar's claims are backed up by mp's own words in the log, and the blockchain
danielpbarron: and more irritated in your persistence nubbins`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24157 @ 0.00052649 = 12.7184 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: growing more*
nubbins`: you're growing more deaf to reason
solrodar: I'm not accusing him of anything here, just giving a bit of context to the earlier discussion
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 ... ( )
danielpbarron: i hesitate to even attempt reasoning with you, because I believe you have "broken the joystick" so to speak
assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
nubbins`: danielpbarron at this point i feel ok telling you to fuck off.
fluffypony: my wife breaks my joystick like all the time
nubbins`: i just gave you (a) mp saying "thanks, here's your money, here's the tx", (b) the tx comes from mpex (c) the tx is not on mpex's books
nubbins`: if you hesitate to attempt reasoning with these facts, fuck you
nubbins`: i have no interest in reasoning with those who abandon reason
davout: nubbins`: i fail to see how (b) implies (c), I can perfectly have an account on my own exchange, can't I?
nubbins`: this is true
davout: my money is on a paymium-controlled addy, your examination of my withdrawal on the blockchain would conclude to fraud?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: did you miss the part where i point out that ~all of MY coin is just as 'mpex'y
nubbins`: mp could have sent the funds to solrodar from mp's mpex account
asciilifeform: it would look exactly the same if ~i~ had paid the bet winners.
williamdunne: nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet might be a bad habit, I don't think its an issue in itself, although reading through the logs it seems everything has gone to shit
asciilifeform: from the point of view of nubbins`
asciilifeform: and it would greatly surprise me if most of mircea_popescu's personal coin was not 1 step from mpex
asciilifeform: so what is astonishing, nubbins` ?
davout: nubbins`: i think you made some valid points, but this is not one of them
trinque: if one had invested significantly in the infrastructure for an exchange, it stands to reason that he'd not use this to hold his own funds, and instead would keep it on a usb stick plugged into his fucking pogo
danielpbarron: !rated nubbins`
assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of -1, and supplied these additional notes: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-3:d427bdf36173205cad1ccd6b5631df015cf4de72d9b7d150d0a03d7ed949655a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from -1 to -3 with note: Suffers from the misguided notion that bitcoin companies are subject to the same rules as fiat
nubbins`: davout my logic stretched too far!
nubbins`: danielpbarron is this a race to -10 now?
davout: nubbins`: and I'm out of popcorn!
nubbins`: davout guess we better both rewind
nubbins`: !rated danielpbarron
assbot: You have not rated danielpbarron.
nubbins`: wild
nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.danielpbarron.-10:9cad03701ab6bdc18d16905aafdb5fb5438ae5f7bd07a5cfdf0a756bdf9cdff3
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -10 for danielpbarron with note: Devoted to a man rather than to a cause.
nubbins`: happy now?
danielpbarron: i wear my negative ratings like badges of war
danielpbarron: you are in good company
nubbins`: i'd say you wear your hemorrhoids like badges of war
nubbins`: doesn't make em shiny
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 13:32:31; danielpbarron: i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
nubbins`: for shame
danielpbarron: is this a surprising position to come from the guy who believes in God (a man)
nubbins`: not at all.
nubbins`: i didn't say "for surprise"
asciilifeform: !rated nubbins`
assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 24-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin.
asciilifeform: i like nubbins` .
nubbins`: here we go
solrodar: !rate nubbins` 0 +1 is making some valid points / -1 is being a complete dick about it
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
asciilifeform: and my rating - stands.
nubbins`: alf!
nubbins`: i like you too
nubbins`: solrodar hate the game, not the player
asciilifeform: but i do recommend to nubbins` , to take a breather
asciilifeform: or he will pop aneurism.
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: stress left my vocabulary in early 2013
nubbins`: but duly noted -- will prob just watch these embers and see if they take hold
nubbins`: my guess is, no
nubbins`: will set the stage for the future of TMSR~ either way
nubbins`: also, if you don't send me address for these shirts, i'm sending them to real nsa w/ your name on box 8)
asciilifeform: nubbins`: l0l, meanwhile send my an addr plox, i have been away from home.
asciilifeform: (they will go to the same place as the last crate, if you still have the addr)
asciilifeform: phun phakt, it is a dilapidated post office, where the letters on the sign have fallen off, it is a 'p s ffic' now i think.
asciilifeform: inside ~smells~ of 1972.
asciilifeform: posters on the walls, faded so far that you cannot read even, what they were.
asciilifeform: it represents the side of usg mircea_popescu likes to bring up, the threadbare zimbabwe side.
nubbins`: asciilifeform i will check my records -- may or may not have kept
asciilifeform: nubbins`: no worries, i will send it to you again when i get home.
nubbins`: see pm
asciilifeform: also nubbins` iirc someone else wanted some
asciilifeform: let them first have however many shirts
nubbins`: yes, will pull those first. i think it's only a couple
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.83235000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
asciilifeform: wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99...' ??
danielpbarron: someone who wants to mix coins
williamdunne: danielpbarron: And needs them sometime between now and.. um
danielpbarron: strange that they'd do it on a 50/50 bet though
danielpbarron: i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26739 @ 0.00052818 = 14.123 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: williamdunne lol
nubbins`: danielpbarron as of right now it's "are my winnings coming?"
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!" << General Bitcoin related anxiety from having them away from One's keys
nubbins`: BingoBoingo +1, they're not your winnings until they're in your hands
danielpbarron: no i've specifically seen the argument made from a winner that he needed the funds to seed his next bet
nubbins`: too bad for him, i guess
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: That too
danielpbarron: the solution is a simple one: stop being poor
nubbins`: or stop betting
deedbot-: [Qntra] Elon Musk Venture Remotely Diddles Attentive Owner's Vehicle -
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell fluffypony Did you really sign a document about being more polite?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: GCHQ uses MIT speech to get chummy with tech industry over crypto backdoors | Ars Technica UK ... ( )
assbot: Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy | Ars Technica UK ... ( )
nubbins`: why don't they meet to institute an idiot harvest instead?
hanbot: so mircea_popescu do you suppose these people were hacked or something, ie some kinda inept Chinese-PR? even without nubbins` meltdown, you have PeterL, the ex-mildmannered professional chemist with a family, going like a five year old suddenly, what the fuck is this?!
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 19:16:32; PeterL: and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.0005277 = 15.2722 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00052649 = 6.5811 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Crisis does funny things to people's brains
ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 454 @ 0.0216 = 9.8064 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: hanbot nubbins` is just doing his trademark low hanging fruit thing, "what's the lowest effort thing i could possibly do to maintain the pretense i'm doing something". that's his coping mechanism with life, it "worked pretty well" or whatever, it's what he knows, it's what he does. there's a whole stack of these idiots running around like pointless chickens, i dunno that much need be explained.
mircea_popescu: he sat in the chan counting his bellybutton lint for years, making inept arguments about pointless shit - he lost all of them, but hey, as long as mp doesn't come straight out with "you're stupid, go back to school" one needn't notice this actually happened, can just as well pretend that blabla.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile other people did things, and there he sat on ass, thinking to himself "oh heh, am i fucking special - all these idiots are sweating bullets and i think i'm exactly the same as them but much smarter because I'm not even doing anything!". aka sprezzatura, ie what happens when you overfeed and underbeat the children.
mircea_popescu: then that bizarre theory got put to the test and it broke like a bridge made out of rickety reeds and now the unspeakable happened, and there is the mirror and oh god the horror.
mircea_popescu: peterl is kinda the same, trying to hang on to the train, which is moving kinda fast and so on.
mircea_popescu: the whole incident is certainly a fine example of why b-a and the world generally can't work as a "mp supported" thing. gotta be very expensive to be a lord, or else self-flattery is much to powerful a force.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne> Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian? << there was a guy, gabrielradio, did some so-so work. it is HARD.
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes> mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true. << one day you'll comprehend what this "there is no bitcoin taint" thing means.
mircea_popescu: and why it is both wrong and stupid to entertain fiatista's pretense of re-interpreting bitcoin in fiatista terms.
mircea_popescu: the point is to crush, not to extend, the relevancy of old world idiocy into the new.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> what is personal life? is there impersonal life? << funny enough, this actually came up in the harem recently. i liked the conclusion. public are all matters which can be expressed such that all the individuals who know of them can accept the expression. private is everything else.
mircea_popescu: which is why addition is a public matter and faith, not.
williamdunne: asa si asa, there is my start
mircea_popescu: hehehe. so go for it. but note that the guy was a native speaker. trilema, and especially ro trilema, is incredibly tense. in fact i do not believe harder source text exists in the whole 2k year history of the place.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne> nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet << there is no such thing as "the company wallet".
ben_vouspes: as predicted.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Do you have anything in particular that you would care to see translated, ideally something that isn't literal poetry? Yeah I've only just started picking RO up, so it would probably be a slow process..
mircea_popescu: assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne not that there's any hurry. lemme see, something that's more accessible, perhaps interesting, not very ro context-y...
assbot: Viitorul se compune din spaima. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
diana_coman: williamdunne, for practice, join eulora and I'll offer quests and training in Ro only, no problem
williamdunne: I have an account somewhere, it's time I've been lacking. But if I can pick it up, that would be very kind, thank you
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Thanks, I'll start working through it
mircea_popescu: a right, diana_coman also native speaker.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 143 @ 0.0209 = 2.9887 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes> as predicted. << predicted my foot. you've prolly not even noticed that trilema's previous article was "color of money", or that the current one continues in the "trolling the idiots" vein.
mircea_popescu: also d9b19f22606c66ed66e0271eb52064e61fdbd1c6022aa25b175d691dac12148c4a5e4a7ff00a0971fc35e24ed7909ad195ea38f8d44f1e52fc847deb3c1c8e12
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:10:34; ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes now try sha512("(and if you say anything other than "no it was in my mempool" to this list of easy to explain coincidences, you lose)")
ben_vouspes: i have no idea what point you're trying to make.
mircea_popescu: i'm just amusing myself, carry on.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 412.15, vol: 5584.85171220 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.0, vol: 5684.28593 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 411.64, vol: 10209.75146076 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 400.0, vol: 13.0417394 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.446436, vol: 39366.03800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.57, vol: 1313.03639734 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.052814, vol: 66.46005481 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 416.637087416
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9135 @ 0.00052649 = 4.8095 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 401773 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1426 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;nethash
gribble: 1143162073.27
nubbins`: mp sure is zzzzz today
nubbins`: hanbot i just heard about your 58mn ECu loss -- maybe when you're able to do something other than run the mouth and lose money, people might care what you have to say?
nubbins`: until then, you're kinda just a dr. forehead but better at bleeding cash
mats: is this feud going to be an ongoing thing in the logs now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44195 @ 0.00052785 = 23.3283 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: i was done until mp decided he'd have another shot at his trump impersonation
hanbot: mircea_popescu meh, i guess eskimociuciu has eternal representation so long as the current voice distributes so much chum.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
BingoBoingo: some old references there
hanbot: ;;later_tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
gribble: Error: "later_tell" is not a valid command.
hanbot: ;;later tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
hanbot: BingoBoingo shit apparently doesn't change much.
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Some things/people change. Others simply change the body they reside in. Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu
BingoBoingo: or ciubob
hanbot: hahaha, sounds about right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58479 @ 0.00052907 = 30.9395 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Maybe Husciu Obobma?
BingoBoingo: brb mtg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67548 @ 0.0005296 = 35.7734 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: be right back, magic: the gathering?
mircea_popescu: it took five passes until "Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu" coallesced into " Reverse of the (everybody is MP) deal. Everbody is bobciu"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63972 @ 0.00052757 = 33.7497 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;ud mtg
gribble: | mtg. stands for Magic: The Gathering. A very good and very popular trading card game by Wizards of the Coast. Far superior to Pokemon but targets an older ...
mircea_popescu: guess it must be.
nubbins`: ;;ud parallel conversation
gribble: | The phenomena that occurs when an online chat morphs into two parallel conversations, usually as a result of one person continuing a conversation w...
danielpbarron: i used to play it; still got my cards
TomServo: same. I should prolly divest them along with my bitcoins, eh?
mircea_popescu: does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
TomServo: both, I believe
danielpbarron: i mostly did cards in person. there was a windows client called apprentice i used a little
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40403 @ 0.00052649 = 21.2718 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50834 @ 0.00052649 = 26.7636 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i think i actually might have played this on the ipad back when i did teh "literature survey" for
nubbins`: til mp owns an ipad
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:35:45; mircea_popescu: assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
asciilifeform: e.g., palantir, has higher priority than post office, literally
mircea_popescu: you're kidding, right ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75550 @ 0.00052604 = 39.7423 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mcdonalds has higher priority than walmart, which has higher priority than the army.
mircea_popescu: palantir may be above elon musk, but the whole thing is a "youth communist movement" side project.
mircea_popescu: gone in a weekend.
asciilifeform: you haven't seen the post in my town...
mircea_popescu: makes no diff.
mircea_popescu: what was that derpy soviet thing that wanted to be an independent art movement ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57454 @ 0.00052619 = 30.2317 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20766 @ 0.00052637 = 10.9306 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148790 @ 0.00052967 = 78.8096 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( )
nubbins`: from the mouth of hanbot : "Failing to use tx fees is mooching. Using a (notoriously inept) "service" that fails to use tx fees is also mooching."
nubbins`: also from the mouth of hanbot: "You weren't caught in some occult and unknowable coincidence that was out of your hands. You either didn't make sure you understood the basics of using bitcoin, or else you decided not to care. In either case, it is you that will have to adjust (and I do earnestly hope that you do; there are a lot of resources on this very forum, on IRC, and around the web that can help)."
nubbins`: this level of irony borders on vulgarity.
nubbins`: At any rate, this isn't a chastisement. If you fuck up to this degree, you're stuck having fucked up.
danielpbarron: also from that thread >> If a couple of pools were interested in bobbaing up MP's reputation, they could start taking longer to include transactions into blocks if bitbet addresses are involved. Just take care to not wait for way too many blocks, otherwise the pool's reputation get fucked.
mircea_popescu: this, iirc, is in the bbet statement.
nubbins`: pool reputation
nubbins`: danielpbarron: do you agree with hanbot in the linked thread that failing to use tx fees is mooching?
danielpbarron: the two situations aren't really comparable; in the case to which she was referring, the 0-fee transaction was spending an output that only had 162 confirmations, several thousand less than the youngest output spent in the now infamous 'A1'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101950 @ 0.000529 = 53.9316 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: danielpbarron her statement doesn't contain the qualifiers you mention -- by my understanding of english syntax, she's making a blanket statement.
kakobrekla: they also arent comparable in a sense not having full mempools in 2013 and having full mempools in 2016.
nubbins`: she didn't say "failing to use tx fees for an output with only X confirmations is mooching"
nubbins`: this is also true.
nubbins`: mempools in 2013 were ghost towns, and there's hanbot still saying that 0-fee is for idiots
nubbins`: fast-forward to 2016 mempool backlog of enormous size...
kakobrekla: perhaps full and nonfull is not the best word as they cant be really full, just large or small.
nubbins`: ...0-fee is not for idiots?
nubbins`: does not compute
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79097 @ 0.00052788 = 41.7537 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i need the quote
asciilifeform: nubbins`: for the crate.
asciilifeform: you forgot the actual cost.
nubbins`: ;;calc 150/[ticker --last]
gribble: 0.364999026669
nubbins`: sorry, wait, wrong currency
nubbins`: ;;calc 111.61/[ticker --last]
gribble: 0.27158360911
asciilifeform: ty nubbins`
asciilifeform: that must be a refrigerator-sized crate??
nubbins`: just extremely heavy
nubbins`: and, if you'll take a look at a map of north america, twodogland is very, very far away from major shipping hubs
nubbins`: cripples our online store, let me tell ya
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66324 @ 0.00052734 = 34.9753 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: makes sense.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00052734 = 20.0389 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25746 @ 0.00052734 = 13.5769 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <TomServo> be right back, magic: the gathering? << meeting, for my improvement
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu << my brother was once a game programmer, for a co. that has died many years ago, and they had the contract of producing the 'official' mtg client. he had to learn the rules of the game, with much loathing, and play it for year+ straigh, all day, every day, with loathing, possibly more hours than just about anyone alive in total. still can barel
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 01:33:09; mircea_popescu: does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
asciilifeform: y stand to hear it mentioned !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: client AND server.
asciilifeform: monstrous thing, it was.
BingoBoingo did not think his abbreviation would be construed to have that meaning. Was just mundane Tuesday sober meeting.
asciilifeform: << he bought it to play games, and told the story in the logz, it was lulzy
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 01:55:06; nubbins`: til mp owns an ipad
nubbins`: BingoBoingo how was the coffee
nubbins` enjoys thick black coffee that makes his throat feel the way it felt when he smoked cigs
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: A bit watery as is the 13th tradition
nubbins`: phun phact, the first drip coffee machine i ever owned, i was making double-strength pots for the first 6 months until i made a cup for a guest one day
nubbins`: "wtf is this tar?"
asciilifeform: << why would i put in 1 btc to get 0.99 out !?!??!
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:34:32; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
asciilifeform: (if ~win~ !)
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 3 hours 38 minutes ago ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39355 @ 0.0005258 = 20.6929 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: pretty even odds there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6954 @ 0.00052675 = 3.663 BTC [+]
assbot: Headfirst mining by gavinandresen · Pull Request #138 · bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: how the FUCK does anyone use 'pywallet.'
asciilifeform: 9 times of 10 it gives 'corrupted wallet'
asciilifeform: that trb chokes on, during rescan, and quits.
asciilifeform: so i go and send on another box and guess what, it had previous trb, and tx is high-s.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: txid in pm. but this is sad.
nubbins`: "Transaction rejected by our node. Reason: Non-canonical signature: High S Value"
asciilifeform: they should ALL burn.
nubbins`: maybe try sending again from MPEx funds and then bill it to bitbet?
asciilifeform: the miners, the imbecile komyooonity, the faux nodes, the lot.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: this clearly comes next!111
nubbins`: heeeee
assbot: Match 1 - Google DeepMind Challenge Match: Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo - YouTube ... ( )
adlai: huh, google's stream is borked
adlai: seems to work now.
mircea_popescu: !up rrtgzg
mircea_popescu: wait, did the korean lose ?
nubbins`: fun fact, go is called baduk in korea
nubbins` has a nice baduk set
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31780 @ 0.00053049 = 16.859 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> they also arent comparable in a sense << or in the sense of "case 1 is a derpy kid who tried his derpy time-arbitrage scheme without having the first clue as to what that entails, then whined to be made whole when it blew up" vs "case 2 - someone came into a shop, shot a patron, and now the business is charging the carpet cleaning against on its expense account". hurr durr, "the police should pay for the ca
mircea_popescu: rpet" and herp derp "i'm running a broken matching engine and find things to 'support' my nonsensical rabidism anywhere i look!!1"
asciilifeform: fucktardedly, the talkingheads of alphago are prattling in front of an ~empty~ vertical go board. The game per se is a small corner inset !
asciilifeform: or hm, now switched to sane picture...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform liveblog for me plox ? if you're watching this ?
asciilifeform: i will be for anoher few min, falling asleep
asciilifeform: adlai had link earlier if someone wants to see.
asciilifeform: the game is ~dozen mov. in.
asciilifeform: machine is playing timidly
asciilifeform: if that is the word.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.00053073 = 32.693 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mkay ima pull this on a projector.
mircea_popescu: running outta screens here ;/
mircea_popescu: omfg what is with the talking schmucks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i could not endure them, cut the audio.
mircea_popescu: i only see the gesturing. is there a proper feed of this ?
asciilifeform: srsly it feels like an american election crud vid
adlai: "it's numbers that i don't really understand. it's just really large numbers"
mircea_popescu: jesus the actual game is on the insert to the right ? wtf is with that country srsly.
mircea_popescu: also why is googlebot playing like a fucking housewife.
mircea_popescu: are we going to see a line from sea to sea before this is done ?
asciilifeform: i said.
mircea_popescu: !s housewife
assbot: 41 results for 'housewife' :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10035 @ 0.00053049 = 5.3235 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so you did omg.
mircea_popescu: i thought i had come up with it on my own! turns out it's from logs ?
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 04:19:40; asciilifeform: machine is playing timidly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it looks pretty poorly for the bot atm.
asciilifeform: but somebody (adlai?) noted that earlier games were similar
mircea_popescu: ie slow to start ?
mircea_popescu: wins on complexity tail end ?
asciilifeform: the box plays very conservatively and waits for meat player to slip
adlai: except it seemed in its games against Fan Hui (EU champion) that it never fully capitalized on slips
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda surprised they didn't brand the table.
adlai: just kept playing the most "consolidating" moves
mircea_popescu: if it makes the 5 line i'm gonna stop watching this.
mircea_popescu: SLITGHTLY better.
mircea_popescu: "who plays like this!"
mircea_popescu: "well... nobody, really."
asciilifeform: i am nearly through
mircea_popescu: also interesting how they tuned the depth search. playing very fast early.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00052784 = 29.5854 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: apparently google thinks early game not so important in go.
mircea_popescu: certainly go with the whole "not really playing, just waiting for human player donations"
asciilifeform: and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera
mircea_popescu: i kinda appreciate the irony of the talk radio derps having chairs but only for display, not to sit in
asciilifeform: and yes it's a flytrap
deedbot-: [Qntra] FBI Agents Investigated For Misconduct In Lavoy Finicum's Murder While Insisting Slaying Was Justified -
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera << It's a common reflex among people who don't grok how cameras work in relation to their body.
asciilifeform: waits, waits.
mircea_popescu: oh my fucking god.
mircea_popescu: enough of this stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform alphago can't play, for srsly.
asciilifeform turning in. sznore.
adlai: unfortunately it seems their target audience are those who just channel surfed their way over from tennis
mircea_popescu: why, they added yelps and some young buttocks ?
adlai: it's helpful for people who have never actually played go but the 9p (lighter suit, who does most of the talking) is a little wasted, explaining these most basic things
adlai: "it's really complicated, yeah" instead of ...
adlai: aha. this is the english commentary, and on the other side of the wall is the korean commentary. they probably speak real go terms over there.
mircea_popescu: is michael redmond actually working on the google side ?
adlai: goodnight asciilifeform
adlai: michael redmond is working on the "lee sedol's new haircut" side
mircea_popescu: is there actually any other 9 dan anglo guy ?
adlai: nope
adlai: watts:zen :: redmond:go
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