Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-21 | 2016-03-23 → ↓
mod6: oh boy, here we go... http://dpaste.com/2S6W9QR
assbot: dpaste: 2S6W9QR ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rf3Uzg )
mod6: works, seems will take some getting used to though.
asciilifeform: congrats mod6!
asciilifeform: ada isn't, contrary to appearances, simply a 'bloated c' though.
asciilifeform: it has some mighty aggressive sanity enforcement mechanisms, that really shine in larger proggy.
mod6: coo
mod6: i'll have to keep picking away at it.
deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Census says… - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/21/census-says/
ben_vulpes: motherfucking moving target
deedbot-: accepted: 1
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 23:31:19; ben_vulpes: in more finely-tuned news: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/J85_ge_17a_turbojet_engine.jpg
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437635 << They want a new test case. Dialectic continues.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 00:16:30; asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
assbot: Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEJZv5 )
assbot: Brussels airport: casualties reported after explosions – live updates | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEK0PK )
BingoBoingo: I thought JCVD was supposed to keep these things from happening in Belgium because Action Movie!
assbot: Visiting Scarfolk, the Most Spectacular Dystopia of the 1970s | Collectors Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1T4Yedy )
jurov: "Children carry more than 72 known diseases. A bite or scratch can be fatal."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00041887 = 7.1916 BTC [+]
assbot: Bitcoin : crise de croissance et querelle de chapelle ... ( http://bit.ly/1MkreN3 )
davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
deedbot-: [Qntra] Gawker Media Total Damages Up To 140.1 Million dollars - http://qntra.net/2016/03/gawker-media-total-damages-up-to-140-1-million-dollars/
BingoBoingo enjoys the "actual damages" getting nice round numbers while punitive damages get a decimal point
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437820 << just when usg cryptowarz were sagging... snackbar!111
assbot: ClubOrlov: The Color Counterrevolution Cometh ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sf9x0s )
asciilifeform: where he drinks the loljuice,
asciilifeform: 'As I said, the Washington régime is just as hated within the US as it is around the world, if not more. Trump's slogan of “Make America great again!” may sound overly ambitious, but what if his promise is to make America great again at exactly one thing—throwing members of the Washington régime on the ground and stomping on their heads until they pop? I am pretty sure that he can get this done.'
jurov: orlov believes in trump?
asciilifeform: jurov: apparently
asciilifeform: 'You see, in the US hatred of the Washington régime runs very deep, with millions of people sick and tired of being swindled by various hated bureaucracies—in government, law, medicine, education, the military, banking... They hate those who took away their jobs and gave them to foreigners and immigrants. They hate those who stole their retirement savings and ruined their children's futures. They hate the smug university type
asciilifeform: making them feel inadequate simply for being who they are—salt of the earth Americans, racist, bigoted, small-minded, parochial, willfully ignorant, armed to the teeth and proud of it. There is very little that the régime can ask of these people, because the response to every possible ask is “no, because we hate you.”'
asciilifeform: in other lulz,
asciilifeform: from today's server logz,
assbot: We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3eZB3 )
jurov: these are http requests to your server?
asciilifeform: jurov: aha
asciilifeform: referheaderspam.
assbot: Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwXmZN )
deedbot-: [Trilema] Republican History of Jewry - http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> motherfucking moving target << check out the premonitory quality of the vulpes.
mircea_popescu: "querelle de chapelle" eh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that technically, the machine can be powered on anything. soviets dekulakized the very dekulakizers at least twice ; mao did it at least once,
mircea_popescu: there's nothing special about the various clones of bill de blasio that prevents them from being made into soap.
assbot: Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYoFj )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, best soap
mircea_popescu: answer't.
assbot: Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdORHs )
mircea_popescu: in other news, asciilifeform you ever saw http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109508/ ?
assbot: Crumb (1994) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdPwbR )
mircea_popescu: great documentary. (i'm also a crumb fan, so)
asciilifeform: i have not, but it sounds like precisely my sort of thing.
asciilifeform puts on list
mircea_popescu: it's one of the best made documentaries i ever saw.
mircea_popescu: zwigoff has the decency to stfu and stay away.
asciilifeform: mouth-watering
assbot: Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYKM6 )
asciilifeform: '... the horde of imbeciles trying to destroy the tower of actual people is very properly the French attack' << inescapably, >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-08-2014#809506 << mental image
assbot: Logged on 26-08-2014 01:48:43; asciilifeform: even this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/SuurToll has a page.
asciilifeform: mega-recommended cartoon, it shows what my mental picture of mircea_popescu looks like
asciilifeform: ( giant, flattens thousands of orcs by wielding an old piece of junk, for as long as he can )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 http://www.cs.uni.edu/~mccormic/AdaEssentials/toc.htm << another golden oldie
assbot: TableOfContents ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx0tAX )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx2j4S )
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1VAzFWO )
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.24, vol: 3765.96832155 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.851, vol: 5469.25419 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.84, vol: 10558.83503659 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.745285, vol: 33763.96200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.47, vol: 2197.14009358 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.410112, vol: 38.75157245 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.213873349
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i think i saw this engine in person
ben_vulpes: neato!
BingoBoingo: Toronto Mayor Rob Ford has passed away
nubbins`: former mayor!
nubbins`: i would've put money on a heart attack, perhaps exacerbated by drug use, not cancer
phf: ben_vulpes: do you know any css libraries that will give me bootstrap style layout techniques, without rest of bootstrap (columns, show/hide conditional based on medium)
trinque: phf: ever use flexbox? something resembling a layout system ended up in the standard itself
trinque: my approach tends to be to set different flexbox rules depending on viewport size
phf: that looks neat, but is there a compiler that adds retro compatibility?
trinque: phf: https://github.com/10up/flexibility << cannot vouch for, but appears to be a polyfill for it
assbot: GitHub - 10up/flexibility: Use flexbox while supporting older Internet Explorers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RiOfwB )
phf: that's a bit too many dirty words for my taste, but i'll give it a try
deedbot-: [Qntra] Brussels Attacked – Western Dream Likely Over - http://qntra.net/2016/03/brussels-attacked-western-dream-likely-over/
asciilifeform: !up mrottenkolber
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: v-related question?
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: ask away, you are speaking with author of original v
asciilifeform: in unrelated nyooz,
asciilifeform: ^^ l337 w4r3z!111 ^^
nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: So I dowloaded v99.tar.gz because I thought it was a cool hack, and expected the following to work: (inside the v99 directory): ./v.py -v --wot wot --seals sigs patches f
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: But I get WARNING: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig is an INVALID seal for asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch !
nubbins`: mrottenkolber did you try manually verifying the sig?
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: mod6 packaged a since-expired key for me in that thing
asciilifeform: and afaik never updated.
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: yep I think thats it.
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0xb98228a001abffc7 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1TFOcit )
mrottenkolber: Cool works.
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: enjoy
mrottenkolber: Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? (thinking about porting V to git hooks/aliases)
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: sha1 is obsolete
assbot: The Shappening ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pk0paJ )
asciilifeform: forget about using it. for anything.
asciilifeform: and porting v onto git is considerably more of a waste of time than the reins on early motorcars
asciilifeform: the WHOLE POINT of v is to ditch git and all things like it.
asciilifeform: whatever things in git world you miss in v, they were excluded DELIBERATELY
asciilifeform: !up mrottenkolber
asciilifeform: no explicit use, for instance, is made of the network.
asciilifeform: it is entirely up to you how to get new patches into and out of the box
asciilifeform: can use sneakernet and floppies if you like.
mrottenkolber: or git? ;-)
asciilifeform: or carrier pigeon.
asciilifeform: and yes, you are free to replace the hash with sha1 or md5 or crc32 or whatever, just like you are free to buy a toyota and drive it off a cliff
asciilifeform: neither i nor toyota have any business saying what you do.
mrottenkolber: My point is the toposort isn't really part of the problem v solves. The function is to cryptographically verfiy a sequence of patches (based on a wot), who cares where that sequence comes from, as long as each patch (commit) has a signature.
assbot: The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VBcxqY )
asciilifeform: the toposort ~is~ part of it.
asciilifeform: without it, you just have a bag of patches, to be sorted manually
asciilifeform: which you did not need a program for, could have done it without me just as well
asciilifeform: likewise, the file hashes ~are~ a part of v, it is how you know that the prescribed flow of patches is being successfully followed.
asciilifeform: again, without this, you have 'faith-based' patching.
asciilifeform: the nailing down of the BITWISE identities of the intermediates, ~is~ part of the point of v.
asciilifeform: the correct context in which v is to be understood is that it is: a weapon of war.
asciilifeform: there is an enemy.
trinque: !up Alopex
trinque: !up B0g4r7__
asciilifeform: the primary weapon of the enemy is the morass of 'nobody read this, nobody understood this' crapolade that 'everything depends on'
asciilifeform: e.g., git.
asciilifeform: e.g., dns.
phf: mrottenkolber: if that's your only goal, you don't need v for that. git already does it for you by having a linearly hashed commit chain. right now you have a reasonable way of verifying the git chain from the top hash, but you can't make any crypto claims about it, since the hashes are sha1
asciilifeform: the modus operandi of the enemy is to insert 'bugs', e.g., 'heartbleed', and to prevent attribution.
asciilifeform: 'everything' in 'open source' was written by 'everybody and nobody'.
asciilifeform: v is so as to put an end to this idiocy.
mrottenkolber: phf: That's why I thought about adding signatures of “git vdiff” to commit messages and an alias/command to verify a branch.
asciilifeform: phf: not only are git hashes sha1, but git itself is a gigantic bag of ?????.
asciilifeform: that i for one have not read nor verified, nor intend to
asciilifeform: wake me up when it's 100 lines TOTAL
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: what about diff and gnupg?
mrottenkolber: actually nvm
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: these are in the queue for replacement.
asciilifeform: by things that WE wrote and UNDERSTAND.
asciilifeform: but yes, they are sore spots, and due for the chopping block.
mrottenkolber: I have to say I like your spirit very much.
asciilifeform: it is total war.
mrottenkolber: its always been
mrottenkolber: I guess
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: consider getting in the wot, i will rate you.
asciilifeform: you will be able to voice.
phf: asciilifeform: well, you can verify data without verifying git. i've done it, and the thing definitely produces a semblance of "blockchain", i.e. later commits hashes previous commits' hashes, so you can if you ignore the sha1 issue, take a git branch and confirm its uniqueness from the final hash
assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )
mrottenkolber: will probably not be chatting that much, but I am very keen of actually starting to build some wotness. My gpg is useless right now its so bare.
asciilifeform: phf: thing is that i have no intention of ignoring the sha1 issue. sha1 is ~broken~.
mrottenkolber: yeah no, you would have to compute sha512
mrottenkolber: which is possible, just not as convenient
asciilifeform: 'convenient' does not enter into this.
asciilifeform: using a curtain instead of front door to your house is also likewise 'convenient'
mrottenkolber: !register 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key CF4CDA75 / "Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
phf: mrottenkolber: a better place to wire v would be mercurial's mq facility. mercurial has a way of managing plaintext patchsets, to do things like patch refresh, i.e update the contents of patch from the current tree state, mercurial managed patch press, i.e. instead of doing "manual" v press hg will keep track of state for you, etc. this will not be a way to share patches, as much as a way to facilitate vpatch authoring.
asciilifeform: !rate mrottenkolber 1 new blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a5e3416520d38fcd
asciilifeform: !assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: new blood
mrottenkolber: I am only mentioning the sha1 option because I don't understand crypto well enough to be able to rationalize the effort of producing a file, with the same sha1sum, with an exploit while the patch still applies.
mrottenkolber: Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it.
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: you should be able to voice yourself now.
mrottenkolber: But e.g. in my head, if you spend 70k to compute a sha1 collision, it won't look like C code probably ;-)
mrottenkolber: (complete speculation)
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: this is not the important bit. a collision will successfully interfere with the function of automated vtrons, e.g., one where patches are thrown into a hopper unattended
asciilifeform: even if the result does not resemble code
mrottenkolber: hopper?
asciilifeform: well suppose you have a box which accepts patches via email, as jurov has.
asciilifeform: congrats mrottenkolber
mrottenkolber: Cool bot!
mrottenkolber: But... am I even connected using ssl? no idea
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: how did you come upon b-a ?
mircea_popescu: will be signign the davout application later today myself.
mrottenkolber: I read about v and liked the hack, ran into the expired signature and well...
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: read where
mrottenkolber: HN probably
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber> Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? << roughly speaking you'd be going back in time, we're by and large in the process of moving to sha-3
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something tells me commenter has never seen hyenas. wtf, some of the most social animals, in its good days washington dc polite society more or less approximates pack of hyenas.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha!
asciilifeform: they do! i have seen.
mrottenkolber: I have absolutely no interest in bitcoin to be honest, don't see the point.
asciilifeform: 'After the burial-parties leave. And the baffled kites have fled;. The wise hyænas come out at eve. To take account of our dead. '
asciilifeform: (kipling)
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber nothing i said was related to bitcoin, was it ?
mrottenkolber: mircea_popescu: No, sorry, still mumbling aout the why I am in b-a
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: you are in good company, i also do not use bitcoin with any appreciable frequency...
asciilifeform: v and bitcoin are related by happenstance, as git and linux kernel were.
mircea_popescu: well if you're curious, free money is the basis for the existence of the republic which is the reason stuff like v ended up existing. but i suppose from outside this string of actual events may as well be coincidental.
mrottenkolber: I totally get why bitcoin development motivates v, obviously there is motivation for adversaries here.
mrottenkolber: what republic though?
mrottenkolber: I am indeed using ssl to connect to freenode, this assbot thing might actually work. :D
assbot: 199 results for 'tmsr' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tmsr
phf: we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
mircea_popescu: turns out, re prev tagging discussion, that ... we're already doing a rudimentary, grassroots sort of that.
trinque: there's some lovely filth over here!
mrottenkolber: oh anarcho-syndicalism I dig that
mircea_popescu: but my main concern with that scheme, upon meditation, is that... ok, brace yourselves :
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber don't kid yourself, they're living in a dictator sheep.
phf: trinque: now you're confusing it with eulora
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: so, IF we start tagging things in chan, this is indistinguishable from good old spam. (textual content of no textual intent).
mircea_popescu: i suppose this could be mediated by doing the tagging over pm
mircea_popescu: but the problem is actually hairer than hoped.
trinque: hm. it does invite that abominable hashtag social media tic.
davout: please no #b-ashtags
phf: #meta #tmsr~
davout: if nobody remembers how to find a particular thread, maybe that thread isn't really worth remembering after all
mircea_popescu: davout the original complaint was re completeness.
mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
davout: re the mp describes a HF that danielpbarron ended up blawging about?
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: Ah there go found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11317378 (my browser history scares me)
assbot: Vectored Signatures | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1pvFQi8 )
mircea_popescu: phf either b,tmsr~ or else tmsr! there is no tmsr~!
davout: ok, i meant that this issue came up when you were talking about "what should go into a tmsr fork" that danielpbarron ended up summarizing on his blog?
mircea_popescu: ah yeah i think that was when it came up
davout: anyway, my point is that if nobody remembers, that nobody bothered to blog it, the fact that completeness is a problem might indicate a violation of fits-in-head
mircea_popescu: so it might, yeah...
ben_vulpes: fitting in head requires lopping all extraneous log comments off.
mircea_popescu: would actually the idea of pm tagging for each DAY solve anything / be worth anything ?
mircea_popescu: or is it the sort of midway solution that's the average of man and woman and horse and chimney ?
ben_vulpes: i recently took a 45 minute sojourn into the history of "protocol vs. promise"
ben_vulpes: 'twas not actually that hard, but it did take knowing the variety speak thoroughly.
davout: mircea_popescu: maybe use log.b-a.com for that purpose? how would pm tagging work?
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that summarization squarely relies on ignorance. there's no obvious way around that rock.
mircea_popescu: davout you pm deedbot with a list of strings which it retains for the day, prints a cloud somewhere, one can click items in cloud to get list of days so tagged
mircea_popescu: but the complexity of this notion is rapidly expanding.
ben_vulpes: another good topic is "specificity of diddling".
ben_vulpes: i have been failing to shit words on the topic out because i think of familiarity with it. it all seems so obvious!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-11-2015#1329599 << summarization also relies on knowing precisely what /can/ be snipped.
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what can be snipped FOR WHOM.
ben_vulpes: catch-22
mircea_popescu: ~only way to make a shorter text reliably is to rely on specified notation known in advance.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, "compression" still an open problem.
mircea_popescu: !rate mrottenkolber 1 New blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9de879a999b2be22
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mrottenkolber.1:7ae7bb4fe0a9bf41b838dc065d19fceca42142f999e7016fa2cd143e92a2412f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: New blood
mircea_popescu: phf i heard this privately too, during rebasing debate, "pretty much the only way to manage this insanity is to put it on mercurial"
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber> Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it. << trivial, add comment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still regretting not doing that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doing what ?
asciilifeform: (someone iirc actually said 'use darcs')
asciilifeform: going with heathen versionatrons
mircea_popescu: non, rien de rien, je ne regrette rien! ni le bon, ni le mal...
mircea_popescu: i wish she was in fucking b-a.
asciilifeform: can we also haz marilyn m ?
mircea_popescu: what do you need buttgirl in irc for ? buy her lunch.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438049 << the only solution is with actual brainz, folks writin' articles.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 20:49:10; mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
asciilifeform: sorta what pete_dushenski was trying to do at one time
mircea_popescu: sorry, can't have brainz. zombies ate them ~all.
phf: mercurial has a handy patch management mechanism, that unfortunatly doesn't understand nor produces vpatches. i basically verify vpatches manually, and then put them into hg's patch folder. then i do a topo sort, which gives me a mercurial compatible "series" file. i let mercurial press it using that series file. whole process is more complicated then should be with a proper mercurial support, but i hnfi how people rebase, refresh,
phf: diff, etc. without it
phf: mechanism has nothing to do with "mercurial" as such, and is more akin to old school patch management system, "quilt"
assbot: MqExtension - Mercurial ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcu )
assbot: Quilt - Summary [Savannah] ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcB )
mircea_popescu: not like it couldn't in principle be gutted/rewritten in part.
ben_vulpes: i press to confirm patch validity and then commit the changes to my local version controlatron.
ben_vulpes: that way i can rebase, etc whenever i care to.
mircea_popescu: chocolatron ?
asciilifeform: am i the only one without fancy mechanisms here ?
ben_vulpes: what about this is fancy?
mircea_popescu: nah, i generally don't do any of that either.
mircea_popescu: then again, the people who aren't me that actually care/understand computers tend to .
asciilifeform: i use v + bare teeth
ben_vulpes: yes but you like pain
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i like right pain
asciilifeform: not idiot rote
asciilifeform: but i was reluctant to write v, if you recall, because i considered the problem it solves to be a trivial / muscle thing
asciilifeform: but iirc mircea_popescu & hanbot et al disagreed, so v had to be.
mircea_popescu: it's splendid, really. the fact that i can run it on a random box and trust the result pales anything else.
ben_vulpes: perhaps the *other* way to go about this is simply to make patches against the base 0.5.3, and then anyone wanting to apply them may do so in whatever order they choose, resolving conflicts as they feel.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this'd result in gargantuan lengths of duplicated crapola
mircea_popescu: well alternatively one could also shit on exposed cable and let the bits sort themselves into software as they will
mircea_popescu: why the hell not. how much worse than present situation could it be.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm not reading a MB of crud i've seen before.
asciilifeform: i'd rather shit in the cable.
ben_vulpes: yes yes
asciilifeform: as per mircea_popescu's formula.
ben_vulpes: fine.
asciilifeform: understand, a 10kB patch is ~LONG~
mircea_popescu: no, v is great even if painful - because it's painful to the right people, which are the people who aren't me.
ben_vulpes: and only if used as a hammer and not microscope.
mircea_popescu: that's the other thjing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is also very painful to the enemy at the business end of the barrel, which is what matters
asciilifeform: but yes, like kalash, it is not built for comfort of the wielder so much as for maximum effect.
mircea_popescu: that's what i said!
asciilifeform: kalash is not even my model for imitation, but closer to... japanese lance mine.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438070 << aaaactually mircea_popescu invented specificity-of-diddling-theorem, i just heavisided it
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 20:56:07; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
asciilifeform: well, he ampered it, at least, and i did some of the maxwellizing and pretty much all of the heavisiding.
mircea_popescu: eh, the chinese invented it 3k years ago
mircea_popescu: invention is like true love. you gotta be a certain age to believe it with all your heart.
mircea_popescu: hopefully you never get old enough to credit it altogether.
mircea_popescu: to stop crediting it altogether, i mean.
asciilifeform: going for modest thing here, not trooo luvvv, but good fuq.
asciilifeform: this - can be had.
davout guesses that's one field where stuff done by hand is actually easier
nubbins`: !up benrav
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 19:44:42; nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the post in my town keeps 'banker hours'
nubbins`: banking, where the hours are great even if the pay sucks
nubbins`: so i built a "hackintosh" computer, just realized i hadn't bothered to put the video card into the thing
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: boxes do not get delivered to your domicile?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: valuable/unique items from ~humans~, i like to sit at the post
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: parcels from commercial mega-vendors, can go to the house, if they get misplaced insurance pays.
ben_vulpes: this is a special hell of paranoia, asciilifeform.
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 403836 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1379 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: !up benrav
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we have diagnosable tards delivering parcels, they often end up miles away, for no discernible reason
gernika: apropos of nothing, I just attempted to download a .pdf formatted datasheet and received a PDF FORMATTED error message.
mircea_popescu: not bad lol.
davout recently learned that PDF could contain javascript
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437833 << i just read that and lolled. seriously, piece pretending nsa-gavin is somehow involved in or related to bitcoin ? leading with a quote from karpeles ? is this yves eudes hardcore trolling the collection of wanna-be derps that read le monde or what ?
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 12:19:03; davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
davout: where do you see a karpeles quote?
davout: "Victime de son succès" ?
davout: well what?
mircea_popescu: yes, that.
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin in terms of gavin and maku kalaposu", a pretty good satirical premise, i grant.
davout: anyway, the article is obviously a massive piece of shit, maybe you'll be interdasted in http://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2015/12/09/le-fondateur-du-bitcoin-enfin-demasque_4827912_4408996.html
assbot: Le fondateur du bitcoin enfin démasqué en Australie ? ... ( http://bit.ly/21G8ZU1 )
assbot: git-vdiff.sh · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/21G90av )
mircea_popescu: you pressed ?
mircea_popescu: !up locksley
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber http://mr.gy is you ?
assbot: Max Rottenkolber's personal website ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ry8kEM )
assbot: Git - Signing Your Work ... ( http://bit.ly/21G9NZ6 )
mrottenkolber: Not sure what `git commit -S' signs exactly, but...
mrottenkolber: assuming it signs the whole commit object, given `merge --verify-signatures' is probably reasonably secure.
mrottenkolber: Which I guess would be the parallel to press
ben_vulpes: mrottenkolber: forgive my thickness but /why/ are you doing this?
mrottenkolber: research
trinque: +mrottenkolber │ assuming ... is probably reasonably secure. << pls do not give poor asciilifeform an early death by ulcer
assbot: A 3D Printed Sundial Displays Time Like a Digital Clock | Colossal ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyavIo )
mircea_popescu: lol they finally found the true vocation of 3d printed items, glorified doorstops ?
phf: mrottenkolber: unfortunately there seems to be no way to enforce security in git, no way to enable some always_gnupg flag, nor is there a mechanism to add default arguments to some builtin commands.
phf: nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc.
ben_vulpes: pretty good example of the "promise" end of the spectrum.
phf: there's commit.gpgsign, but i don't see anything for --verify-signatures
phf: suggested solutions include writing update hooks, that in turn involve plenty of goo' ol' foo=$(bar|sed|awk)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00042201 = 1.7433 BTC [+] {2}
gernika: I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts.
gernika: aparently also uses random items such as various tupperware containers.
ben_vulpes: why would you put food in that plastic
gernika: so you can forget about it while it rots in the refrigerator?
mircea_popescu: it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain.
ben_vulpes: in other news, i finally put a tv in the conference room and it is now apparently the dedicated "5 hours of rocket explosions on a loop" device
mircea_popescu: incidentally : the ancient myths of "person-in-construction" have a practical backing in the roman practice of using fat and sometimes blood as a plasticizer in concrete.
mircea_popescu: it's a hugely interesting topic, this.
mircea_popescu: strength of concrete is inverse to the added water, up to a point, but that makes it hard to work.
mrottenkolber: why does assbot echo bit.ly links? seems redundant
mircea_popescu: so you don't leak your ip by visiting links ; so you archive their contents if you want to.
mod6: thanks for the link alf
phf: so here's a definitive answer the question "gpg what you sign" http://paste.lisp.org/display/311222
phf: basically some equivalent of "tree 182073587b70313f13678c6e1389cb6c94dd3c69\nauthor foo <foo> 1458691972 -0400\ncommitter foo <foo> 1458691972 -0400\n commit message ... "
mircea_popescu: is this a git extension ?
phf: nah, above paste is a hack that repeats the steps that git goes through in order to verify a signature on a commit (as seen here https://github.com/git/git/blob/f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e/commit.c#L1124), and purpose is to answer the question "wtf does git sign"
assbot: git/commit.c at f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e · git/git · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ryk9KY )
mrottenkolber: So I learned today that git does't use sha1 as I thought, but its own git-hash-object
mrottenkolber: Which is probably less cryptographically “secure” as sha1 (wild guess)
mrottenkolber: wait nvm
mrottenkolber: oh its late, it uses sha1 obviously but not on plain files >.>
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: there are threads in the logs re: poor hygiene of git.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438202 << somebody wake up diametric and his 11 (?) handmade 3d printerz
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2016 00:23:16; gernika: I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2016 00:31:03; mircea_popescu: it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain.
asciilifeform: same thing of which your keyboard (if it is any good) is made.
mircea_popescu: keyboard is already set ; and chock-full of phtalates when new.
mod6: boy oh boy. looks like all you can hope for with Ada and issuing system commands is to redirect the output to a file, and the read the file.
mod6: s/the/then/
asciilifeform: abs is not thermosetting
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: what do you mean by hygiene?
asciilifeform: mod6: a proper vtron won't call out to shell
mod6: gpg libs give me ulcers
asciilifeform: mod6: there are no libs
asciilifeform: mod6: correct vtron will exponentiate inside itself.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: abs melts and cools, and melts again, etc. this is why 3d printer is even a thing
mod6: well, i guess i can appreciate that. i was simply going to write a V in Ada as a way to learn Ada.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no phthalate in abs
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: hygiene is a broad concept, but it starts with excluding known filth
asciilifeform: and proceeds to throwing out the vaguely filthy and the contaminated-by-contact
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438197 << illustration of what bad hygiene looks like
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2016 00:04:06; phf: nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc.
asciilifeform: more broadly, i have nfi what goes inside a '.git' directory, and the effort required to understand it is substantial
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc abs is the more expensive sort of ink.
asciilifeform: (~understand~ meaning FULLY, as in - ~all~ edge cases)
mrottenkolber: I can recommend “Git from the bottom up”, git at its core is actually quite... minimalistic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other popular feedstock is pla, which is made of corn exhaust
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: how long is the git source and ALL dependencies.
asciilifeform: that is what i am speaking of, when i say 'understand'
mrottenkolber: and it was kind of obvious that it signs the commit object, I mean what else?
mircea_popescu: i dunno why i thought it's mostly pvc. seems not.
asciilifeform: so that'd be a hash of a hash ?
trinque: mrottenkolber: behind the words one knows there can be an expanse of rusty gears and dirty secrets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wtf, nobody prints pvc, good way to gasenwagen
asciilifeform: (pvc iirc releases hcl, in a room where it has been burned, electronics slowly rot away and must be written off)
mircea_popescu: well, all burned plastics release something.
mircea_popescu: abs iirc releases hcn.
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: I hash of some metadata and a hash of tons of hashes of tns of hashes lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it does.
trinque: mrottenkolber: consider that as specified the total source code involved in a vtron can *decrease* drastically from here.
mircea_popescu: anyway. apparently all sorts of thing OTHER than polycarbonate are #7 now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but in either case 3d printer, unless catastrophically miscalibrated, does not ignite
mircea_popescu: well done idjits for making a mess of things.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is, more or less, a 'glue gun on wheels'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they installed one at $rupturefarm a few days ago, i still can't quite figure out why, thing is huge
mrottenkolber: good night guys
mrottenkolber: see you around
phf: mrottenkolber: things are always obvious until someone does the work discovery and then it's "who could've predicted"
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: davout ^ you're on.
diametric: asciilifeform: most people use pla. it's a lot easier to deal with. abs requires higher temps and a heated bed. but recently there are a lot of people printing with petg, and various composites. i just saw some "ironfill", a blend of iron powder and pla.
mircea_popescu: diametric so what's the toxicity profile like, for the activity broadly speaking ?
diametric: about the same as walking around a major city i imagine.
diametric: theres a lot of talk about ufps
diametric: but not a lot of peer reviewed evidence of any real danger
asciilifeform: congrats davout !
asciilifeform: welcome back to planet of civilization, diametric !
diametric: i lurk
diametric: mircea_popescu: i'll let you know if i develop popcorn lung
mircea_popescu: twas in my head closer to "you know, printer in 1930" than "you know, starbux barrista"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think modern baseline is close to 'printer in 1930'
mircea_popescu: also possibru
asciilifeform: somewhere between that and 'match girl'
asciilifeform: diametric: ironfill sounds interesting, can you steer it magnetically ?
diametric: absolutely
assbot: 3D Printer Filament Comparison | MatterHackers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RynlGC )
asciilifeform: the ceramic filament looks appealing, one could print molds and pour, e.g., al
diametric: asciilifeform: its funny you bring up 3d printing, i just returned from the midwest reprap festival
asciilifeform: any groundbreaking advances there ?
diametric: some interesting vat related stuff on the sla side
diametric: picked myself up a flex vat
asciilifeform: the thing with the projector and photosensitive gel ?
diametric: basically the vat for curing the SLA layers on is flexible, so when the print moves up a layer, the whole vat deforms in order to overcome the van der waals effect
diametric: yeah
asciilifeform: so looks something like the accordion from old daguerrotype camera ?
mircea_popescu: more like a ball with inserts nah ?
diametric: nah the vat is made out of a thin layer of FEP, so its like a clear rubber
assbot: FlexVat – Standard and Large | ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3HGy )
diametric: my buddy at seemecnc gave me one for free
asciilifeform: hm, that looks like just a frame ?
asciilifeform: where is the rubber
diametric: zoom in
diametric: its the clear thing held down by the frame
diametric: thats actually not the one i got, hangon.
assbot: Universal Flexible Resin Vat Reservoir for DIY resin printers – SeeMeCNC ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3Mdf )
diametric: its sandwiched in the frame
diametric: a thin sheet of FEP
asciilifeform: i'm actually mildly surprised that mircea_popescu doesn't have a 3d printer somewhere
asciilifeform: and making custom butt plugs, gags, to 5% accuracy
mircea_popescu: good buttplugs are surgical steel ; good gags cured leather etc.
diametric: my favorite is still the giant thermochromatic cock
mircea_popescu: really, little use for plastic in life.
asciilifeform: then lathe!
asciilifeform: and tanning shop.
mircea_popescu: speaking of van der waals forces, apparently they've finally managed to make the spiderman suit.
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