mircea_popescu: on your end, one advantage is that indeed the expenses are significantly less than fucking boston. if you can manage to get employment remote, it'll give you a lot more free income than any of the carefully engineered to no tleave you anything us jobs
mircea_popescu: i'd have no problem advancing some cash for the purpose. you can go there for say a month, see if you can / want to make a life for yourself there.
lobbes: plus I only have so many weeks that I can take off from the salt mines, and I want to take time to visit old meat friends as well. Trying to plan out the order of operations I guess
lobbes: well I wanted to avoid any of the classic 'reich traps'; for e.g. back in MA they have the 'common law marriage' thing (or used to at least)
lobbes: 'just call the police'
lobbes: mircea_popescu: yeah, I think I'm overcomplicating it. I talked to an attorney yest. and they said the same thing really
mircea_popescu: between the two it should be done by... i dunno, monday ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I negotiated with mod6 1 BTC cash compensation due September for managing pizarro September 1, 2018 to September 1st, 2019. In the early days with ben_vulpes at the helm there was warrant wrangling. Even if I had warrant wrangled the asciilifeform and mod6 ownership interests would still dwarf mine. Having the negotiation of their interests in an equity deal added to my plate seems like an incredible increase in
mircea_popescu: i confess i don't understand the difficulty. you call the realtor tell them the house is to go up for sale asap and call the police tell them someone's in your house please take them out.
lobbes: I'll keep it in the back of my head tho
lobbes: I've begun charting the local bdsm scene here in charlotte for e.g., so who knows, that may yield fruit or it may not. Trying to get out of my shell and meet people who know things and do some meat networking locally for the time-being (this will all be in a blog post(s) once I do enough initial charting). Aside from that, financially speaking my short-term actions will be to keep my expenses low and
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 11:02:36 mircea_popescu: incidentally, lobbes : as a purely off the cuff notion, if you feel like taking a trip to UY to evaluate whether "a new life" awaits for you there, we might be able to work something out!
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930617 << it does appeal, but I know before even taking a trip I need to sort a few things out on the homefront here (namely getting ex-girl outta my mortgaged house, selling house, etc.). Hard to say one way or another where I'll be in a year atm.
lobbes: I'm thinking I can perhaps do the html-izing bits 100% in awk and bash, tho for the bot echoing and search bits I think those will need at least a sqlite database and php
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930619 << I am attempting to bake a 'logotron_lite' that will spit out static html logs from ZNC/irssi logs in the style of the classic #e logs, but without needing the pyturds used in the heathen irclog2html
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if trinque wants in -- i'm entirely in favour . fella currently runs a meatspace biz, in 1 of the most hostile environments imaginable, and as i understand -- successfully
mircea_popescu: i recall a lot of wrangling re warrants/options back in the dat
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and remember that you did not end up with the work by happenstance, but because yer the 1 with all of the necessary skill. but you WILL have to avoid turning into mod6 , or no amt of expert will be able to help.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If trinque decides he wants to come in as an owner-partner, that is a conversation you and mod6 will have to handle as the owner-partners.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mod6 , near as i can tell, is incapacitated. and i'm essentially prisoner. yer the current chair.
BingoBoingo: trinque: let me know what sort of incentive or commision structure would interest you. Also as mircea_popescu suggested, think about engaging asciilifeform and mod6 about the chair...
mircea_popescu: wtf criteria is this, "you're the angel, im not expert angel"
mircea_popescu: lol, wait, he got sent to the penal chairman batallion ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and remember that yer the current chairman. dun let yerself get incapacitated, asciilifeform is not expert in chairmaning , but someone has to actually fucking steer the thing, or we're sunk, irons or no irons
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ftr my own measurements are wildly variant, i suspect the 3 ( 4? ) trb nodes are bursting and eating pipe
mircea_popescu: the one that was 24s befoar
mircea_popescu: same exact curl as i quoted yest, it's in the history
asciilifeform: i.e. it WILL have to be widened, and also possible that the 'all you can eat' model of divvying it up is not practical.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i also would like to find what it'd cost to widen the pipe. AND how much currently is eaten, and by whom. i have dark suspicion currently that we're dangerously low on pipe.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, the compilers thing is on ave1 table, but I have to trust that you better understand the compiler situation.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo unless you have a specific objection , i'ma go with 2x opteron (as already specced!) + 6x rk + 4x apu 1 . ( despite lack of adult gnat for rk , it continues to sell, really is the closest thing we have to an in-demand item )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 04:21:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930548 <-> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930555 how about you stop asking each other stupid questions and do stuff instead! yes, they need everything, what can you do ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930585 << and yes we need erry possible expertise! BingoBoingo yer 1st q for trinque oughta have been 'what'll it cost' . this being said, we're flat outta what to sell, it is impermissible to delay any longer the irons !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 00:56:59 BingoBoingo: Tomorrow I am going to try the cuntoo genesis scripts on the test machine with a differrent set of found kernel configs while the Uruguayos play their annual independence day death race game. Then I'll ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM yet and suggest his next payload consist of either 4 full 1U AMD64 box, 2 1Ubox and 8 PCengines APU, or 3 1Ubox and 4 APU.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 01:57:40 lobbes: anyways I'm off to learn more awk and then bed
mircea_popescu: does the notion appeal at all ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, lobbes : as a purely off the cuff notion, if you feel like taking a trip to UY to evaluate whether "a new life" awaits for you there, we might be able to work something out!
BingoBoingo: Curiosity, nostalgia, and the late winter blahs beat the idea, grown faint over time, that I don't even enjoy drinking. Loading up on caffeine, water, and vitamins has me feeling much more like a person than when I woke up today.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, wtf, seriously ? what, are you bored over there, what is it ?
mircea_popescu: nobody's YET -ev for engaging in the a-b-c. not even once. so wtf.
mircea_popescu: there's literally no limit in anyone's way and all i hear for the past month is butthurt over "abuse" "cults" "worship" etcetera. what the fuck already, whole idea's a) do something ; b) show people ; c) get ~useful~ feedback. this cycle ALWAYS worked to date, no exception, so the common mind response's to... stop engaging ? what, is failure such a delightful thing gotta SOMEHOW ensure it ?
mircea_popescu: nor is that any kind of an exhaustive list. build a 3d art studio if you fucking feel like it, hire two or twelve dozen +ev animators to make things. buy some real estate for rental/airbnb-ing and run the damned thing as your castle, buy a buncha cab medallions do that, pretty much ~anything~ can be it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, you don't specifically need pizarro to do outreach. you can do outreach on your own, on whatever lines are appealing. trilema is displaying a sexual avenue, "building a harem" ; diana_coman 's younghands thing is sorta 2year community college thing, "come and learn the basics of computing for very reasonable tuition". there's nothing wrong with that.
mircea_popescu: if it even can be salvaged anymore. but in any case if it continues as is the only possible result's pretty obvious, only the timeframe's perhaps dubious.
mircea_popescu: in any case itll need a firm committment to a) discussing all the problems b) thoroughly.
mircea_popescu: if you'd be interested in helping out on that front, it'll prolly be best if you actually get involved in the partnership outright. none of this "fix the website copy" "helping", erryone wants to do the "helping" of employees whereas republic needs independent men not wage slave wannabe's.
mircea_popescu: now, to take things apart : i don't think pizarro is sustainable as it stands. BingoBoingo 's been there for years now, and he's already showing the wear at the edges.
mircea_popescu: trinque, all of this is quite reasonable. what worries me, specifically, is the (by now sadly well documented) process whereby danielpbarron / mod6 / phf / etc 1. stop talking "because busy working", then 2. stop reading and then 3 "inexplicably" start "having problems", all very "varied" and "impredictable" subjectively, but from outside all very fucking transparently the same one thing.
trinque: by fix the website, I mean that it's currently written with #t as an audience, and if folks here were going to buy more #p services, they'd do so based whether BingoBoingo seems to be drinking again, not upon your website.
trinque: re: my various offers to #p, I'd be happy to fix the website and work on plans for outreach just as an experiment in increasing bot-wallet use
trinque: at any rate. I have a coin processor that is only going to be worthwhile if there are services which use processing.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Last night I was. Today I am brewing coffee, getting thiamine, going to a meeting, asking myself why *this* stupidity again, and sticking my nose back in the book.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 20:38:02 trinque: BingoBoingo: I had another idea re: customer acquisition for y'all.
hanbot: mircea_popescu #pizarro logs paint a slightly different picture than the exchange above imo, for instance http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-17#1000063 --though looks like trinque never got an answer. looks to me like miscommunication, not particularly lack thereof...though none of this speaks to the "where's this written on your blog" issue.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, more's the point : are you drinking again ?
mircea_popescu: yes, the business inacumen & sheer inability to make money is going to kill "them", slowly but surely. the inability to think about yourself is going to make it irrelevant whether you're killed or not, however. it's one node up.
mircea_popescu: the actual reality of the matter is this : that nicole could very well http://trilema.com/2018/meet-miss-piggy/ and yet her cunt didn't fall off ; eric could very well http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/on-relationships-or-how-pretense-kills/ and yet his cock didn't fall off ; but phf couldn't, and is butthole DID fall off.
mircea_popescu: one failure mode's not particularly better than the other ; nor is failure this magical and "nobody could have predicted"-y thing. your neglected blog's exactly like phf's neglected blog, and it drives the same sort of stupidity in both of you, for the same reasons, in the same ways.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930568 << conversely, if you're interested, it's the cazalla-esque "i'll remember about this place i used to be cool at whenever i'm drunk / argue with the wifey, but put 0 effort into either documenting myself or actually changing".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 23:30:52 BingoBoingo: <trinque> all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? << A solution to automate private message placement on heathen forums is desired.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930548 <-> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930555 how about you stop asking each other stupid questions and do stuff instead! yes, they need everything, what can you do ?
lobbes: anyways I'm off to learn more awk and then bed
lobbes: I gotta say, the last ~20 or so lines have been one weird conversation. I think trinque was trying to say "pizarro needs sales yesterday, want help with it?" and BingoBoingo was trying to say "sure but automation of marketing is also important". Somehow none of the points connected despite everyone seemingly being in agreement (and my attempts at articulating it I don't think helped either)
BingoBoingo: And I am indeed giving Cuntoo another try because linux kernel shit is nearly Argentine cyanoacrylate level shit. The kernel config is an essential piece of making the orchestra string yet because shitgnomes it is a very rough edge to the fault of noone here but plenty of people out of here.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm not refusing at all. I'm simply stating where it seems our outlook on the next hardware move is as of this moment, my admission of code generation inability Spanish hasn't helped, and I've highlighted an edge case risk (The Colorado Talvi as Prissident) which hangs over Pizarro's physical presence.
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/how-colocation-america-almost-lost-my-business-but-saved-themselves-in-the-end-for-now-at-least/ << lobbesblog -- How "Colocation America" almost lost my business, but saved themselves in the end (for now, at least)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wat is this.. it would seem that trinque is offering his services ? why the immediate refusal? find out what he would like in recompense, and what offers.
BingoBoingo: Tomorrow I am going to try the cuntoo genesis scripts on the test machine with a differrent set of found kernel configs while the Uruguayos play their annual independence day death race game. Then I'll ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM yet and suggest his next payload consist of either 4 full 1U AMD64 box, 2 1Ubox and 8 PCengines APU, or 3 1Ubox and 4 APU.
BingoBoingo: It was a bit of a surprise to me, but outside the wire... cockwrapping girls are easy to find. Like mp's or not like mp's is a matter of scarce head quality. Tomorrow, I'm going to have to put another dump out on my fight in the realm of what asciilifeform calls "unbounded symbols" and the enemy calls "modern democracy". There is a 10-12% chance per heathen polls that the risk profile of Pizarro in Uruguay elevates substantially over
trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent.
lobbes: and once asciilifeform's hands are free, I think he will be able to focus on the automated bits iirc
BingoBoingo: Per mircea_popescu's documented experience it seems private messages on www traps is the highest return payload delivery path
lobbes: Well, you said that automation is not what Pizarro needs. BingoBoingo brought up mp's data (from his fetlife filtering) that suggests that in order to reach actual humans and sift through the ocean, you need automation
lobbes: in other words, trinque, you don't see the fetlife automation as the same item as pizarro automation? In any case, why are automated "hi's" and a voice for a pizarro mutually exclusive?
trinque: eh don't bring the women into it.
BingoBoingo: It took mircea_popescu how many baited hooks to rescue nicoleci from midwestern sadness? The number was seven to 8 figures.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? << A solution to automate private message placement on heathen forums is desired.
trinque: you're seriously going to let the texan remain standing?
trinque: on the subj of phf, I suppose I'm just butthurt because warring over the null set is perhaps one of my fondest memories of this hall.
trinque: it's built atop THEIR STACK
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 12:08:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930302 << i got distinct impression that trinque is ripping own hair out from grrr re bugs in the (quite gnarly, i think was written in n00b yrs) cl bot
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930421 << incorrect. I spend virtually no time thinking about whether the bot I wrote while still 20whatever is any good.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 2 'archived' links are identical
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/08/impression-of-minsk-july-5th/ << The Whet -- Impression of Minsk, July 5th
mircea_popescu: srsly now, IF there is such a thing as a program that needs crypto-grade entropy at boot time, it's a piece of shit.
bvt: mircea_popescu: i don't think it will lead to any vulnerability or something of this sort, no; but still there is a question of what the early users are (i.e. something in net stack, that will stick for a long time?)
bvt: asciilifeform: actually it may be easy to find early users with ftrace=function ftrace_filter=*random* at kernel command line, and then get the users out of tracefs
mircea_popescu: it's not my fault linux kernel was written by the zombie herd
asciilifeform: which crapola? ( the prng itself? (
mircea_popescu: to init the crapola.
bvt: the O ring needs to be initialized somehow, zero-filling it may be bad, and keeping the existing infrastructure for just boot-time entropy collection is not an option; should i look for something simple that would work for initialization?
mircea_popescu: while alf's "no need for entropy during boot" is not correct, nevertheless "no need for I-entropy" stands, can just use the O register until you can indeed http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930512
mircea_popescu: bvt indeed, if there's no I to O overflow, then O just acts as a cprng, keeps hashing itself
asciilifeform: ftr imho a box that wants FG ~during~ boot, oughta have it on an actual rs232 port -- these get init'd very simply quite early during boot
asciilifeform: ( it's superficially appealing, but almost certain to get bogged down in particulars of usb2serial dongles, as well as the gnarly issue of actually identifying FG from other serial devices -- linux offers 0 hard guarantee of initialization order for serial gadgets )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 18:20:00 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13;
bvt: one q though, per my reading of the formalization, stretching happens only on I overflow? i.e. if there is a consumer reading from I, preventing it from overfilling, bytes would never fall into O, and stretching is not triggered?
bvt: 2. by tty model of linux, you don't pull data using tty driver, the driver pushes the data though several abstraction layers. i would have grok this stuff as well. there is at least one other driver that needs this functionality (for connecting a screenreader to a tty), so i can figure out stuff by looking at what it does.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 13:25:30 mircea_popescu: imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13;
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reminiscent of ameristan's 'cuz it's where the money is'(tm)(r)(dillinger)
snsabot: Logged on 2018-06-12 20:54:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 13:23:00 hanbot: asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 12:34:46 spyked: asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit
nicoleci: Ftr, i've been trying to get ahold of Ballas at his office in Maryland for two weeks now. The first time I called, receptionist told me hes only in the office on Wednesdays, I called back on Wednesday and was told he left early. Then when I called yesterday she told me that he's working from home today. Slippery dude.
hanbot: asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol.
asciilifeform: i was actually somewhat surprised when saw mircea_popescu undertake 'digest tlp' . it seems rather similar to the work of gathering usable scrap metal from chernobyl.
asciilifeform gets already 1000x the digestible dose , purely from ^ and from seepage via qntra
mircea_popescu: s retarded skullholes is both a daily irritant and the actual limit on the speed of digestion
mircea_popescu: in fact, the little that leaks through tlp
asciilifeform on occasion ~actually~ does read it. well, not usually the daily maculature per se (try an' find it) but e.g. recently read a sovok-pov history of rome. entertaining.
mircea_popescu: i'd really rather read pravda.
asciilifeform: it'd be rather like trying to hire pigeons to clean a statue.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather donate to the democratic party than give anything to the "unmotivated" scum of the net
mircea_popescu: i really don't ~want~ to give anything to these moral repugnants in the first place.
asciilifeform recalls the ' cr50 bounty ' thrd. mircea_popescu made very persuasive arg re 'takes >= work to adjudicate contest as to do the actual job' .
hanbot: i don't think it'd require bringing douchebags in; have a list of unsolved refs, assign a reviewer for public submissions (i'd volunteer), award if solved, relationship can end there.
hanbot: mircea_popescu it occurs to me, in today's attempt to catch up with trilema pieces: didja rule out offering a public bounty for forgotten references a la http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-biology-is-destiny-adnotated/#footnote_3_86951 ?
mircea_popescu: you don't grow the pantsuit from visual contact with that dude's bald head directly
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:22:30 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers.
spyked: asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit
spyked: hm, it seems that feedbot forgot to deliver some posts today because of the changes I made yesterday. fixed this and will include changes in next vpatch
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09c-hunchentoot-via.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: requests and replies [a]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-can-narcissism-be-cured-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Can Narcissism Be Cured?. Adnotated.
diana_coman: there was no < floating around, no.
asciilifeform: hm then moar interesting.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 12:21:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser)
diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930437 - no, it was a proper link, proper html; hence the bug re version of php, solved by danielpbarron and in hanbot's vpatch etc.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-british-medical-journal-sends-its-scienticians-to-the-internet-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - British Medical Journal Sends Its Scienticians To The Internet. Adnotated.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-breast-implants-and-suicide-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Breast Implants and Suicide. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: even the ~reddit~ people got this right, iirc. in '07, no less.
asciilifeform if were writing a new blogotron, would have the comment box eat same syntax as here, with the square brackets. who the hell needs raw htm in comments other than for linkage.
mircea_popescu: yes well, i just looked at this room, it dun have a "breathe" sign
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho then comment box oughta have a notation e.g. 'dun fughet to < >' etc
mircea_popescu: im not re-debugging this, spent a day year-or-so ago on it, i expect the resuklts to be in the mp-wp tree!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 10:25:30 diana_coman: do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:19:48 mircea_popescu: i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:37:59 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930317 << this is The Right Thing (it dun need 'latency measurer' or any of that!) but only ~half~ . rip out the cl-irc thing.
asciilifeform: the only cure, folx -- rewrite!
snsabot: Logged on 2018-10-25 15:10:38 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think trinque & ben also walked in with this, given as they used a heathen 'cl-irc' lib for some reason (thinking, i suspect, 'irc, grrr, gnarly to implement' )
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform walked into the 'go make bot' thing also suffering under the notion that bot is titanic problem that takes year of work . but imho this aint so.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that read "motherfucker, i have no fucking idea what the fuck i wrote in here, was i drunk or what, it's illisible!"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930302 << i got distinct impression that trinque is ripping own hair out from grrr re bugs in the (quite gnarly, i think was written in n00b yrs) cl bot
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930260 << funnily enuff, not long before reading these words, asciilifeform was using an actual, physical ratchet... which... broke. and nao turns 2ways.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl .
asciilifeform: spyked: the tricky bit re 'steal the ultralight threads' is that in order for it to work, you more or less have to have same degree of 'fascism' as in actual erlang, i.e. can't have shared memory, easily-mutable variables, all the other knobs that make 'earthling' threads 'heavy'
asciilifeform: or for that matter , the function calls. e.g. #'start-ring/2 . dafuq, if it's a sexpr, it ~knows already~ that it needs the 'start-ring' that eats 2 args , not 1, not 3, not 17
asciilifeform: ... their coad example. observe how yes they added paren, but... with various infixisms somehow still preserved and freely intermixed ?!!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:56:34 spyked: upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "lisp-flavoured erlang" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930335 << this find is so monumentally terrible, that it is worth preserving in amber. ( and not on acct of the shithub, roundedcornerism, and misc. redditisms, but strictly from pov of the proggy per se . ) behold :
billymg: re: blog work, i'm about to head out for the weekend, back early next week. i'll be able to bang out some more test coverage based on mircea_popescu's spec on the trip and put together a status/roadmap post when i get back
diana_coman: do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps?
diana_coman: feedbot is extremely useful to track all the comments + posts, basically I switched all to it and it's working great so far; there was the deluge of the after-break stuff coming in today but it's not a big issue (and it didn't choke on it either so all good)
diana_coman: or hm, it relies on frequent tags rather than words so not quite reflecting the content
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the "cloud of tags" is the closest thing to the above in that it changes indeed as content is added; I don't recall if it provides direct link to articles but at least it reflects the content as is
mircea_popescu: illogical, granted, but to me the expectation's obviouis
mircea_popescu: no, they expected.
diana_coman: true; though it does get added gradually anyway and they don't really expect to know upfront *everything* that will be added
diana_coman: arguably there are all those projects (like perseus even, perhaps?) where they worked precisely on "lots of digital content how to make it digitally-useful" but I am not aware of something that translates directly
mircea_popescu: but personally, i'm waiting for billymg to emerge, out of his current work. if nothing's clear by then, we can hack. but before, no real benefit, all downsides.
mircea_popescu: and yes, we'll prolly have to hack soemthing togethet to find this out
mircea_popescu: in any case -- the part where categories are useless, tags are where it's at, and they must be recalc'd every article publish is clear. the part where HOW to calculate them in the first place, that's unclear.
mircea_popescu: i suppose nobody wrote enough since the dawn of the digital age for this need to appear and be conceptualized
diana_coman: yes; and ofc there isn't any such thing or we'd have used it, no?
mircea_popescu: can be extended a thousand times, and then broken.
mircea_popescu: basically, each article's tags' lease on life is "until another article is published".
mircea_popescu: well, there's no system that currently does this, recalculates the whole cloud tag and each article's tags on each new article published
diana_coman: by writing that article I add to the knowledge my blog reflects i.e. to my public knowledge if you prefer
diana_coman: yes but I don't see the problem with that
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i mean, that by your writing article 19, the tags of article 2 change
mircea_popescu: that's why nobody has a working system : 1. any meaningful interpretation of "categories" reduces to "tags", so even though implementations give "the choice" it is a dud choice ; and 2. any meaningful implementation of tags requires they change with the blog, whereas every implementation presumes to enter them at the time of publishing (which coincidentally but harmfully overlaps with the "don't alter history" imperative)
diana_coman: they do, as they reflect the material put in; but I don't see a problem with a third person deciding to categorize trilema with whatever tags they think greatest and provide the resulting tags + links as their view of it, what
mircea_popescu: imo tags have to evolve with the blog
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I agree re categories and tags; fwiw I also think that tags should reflect the material as it was put in; basically if one wants to categorize content differently, then they can make their own manual/automated/mixed/whatever tagger and apply it, providing their own view of the content
mircea_popescu: i dun really see any other workable approach.
mircea_popescu: search words are "i know the searcher but not the material, here's soem clues' whereas tags are "i know the material but not the seacher, here's some clues"
mircea_popescu: however you turn this matter around, yes categories make no sense, if you wanted super-titles you'd do chapters. and tags ONLY make sense as the converse to search terms, "here's the words you might wish to search trilema for"
mircea_popescu: and needless to say, this bothers me immensely.
mircea_popescu: eg the trilema article i quoted above : i had fully forgotten about. not in the sense that i don't recognize it when i see it, i do, but in the sense that when i penned http://trilema.com/2019/black-or-white-the-day-of-saturday/ which needed it, i did recall to put it in. i've meanwhile corrected this and added the link, but i am certain there's THOUSANDS of such "actually mp, the item you'd link here is this" "oh shit you
mircea_popescu: this augments the ai with human mind, but then again also limits it -- you won't find what you didn't put in.
mircea_popescu: another approach is to just generate the list of most common words on trilema, pick the best ones, and tag with them all the articles that contain them
diana_coman: I would start with something rather simple indeed; and review it, initially it's really a sort of learning wtf in there because I have no idea atm how useful the tags produced would be
mircea_popescu: imo a correct tagging mechanism is the one item missing from http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, something complex, involving linkage and actual attempts at "ai" sesne-making... well
mircea_popescu: on one hand, something simple like "tag each article with the 12 most frequently occuring live words over 3 characters long ; keep a central list of "dead" words that occur in more than x% of articles, re-tag all articles tagged with one of the words there"
diana_coman: the exact approach/algo is the iffy bit re tags but probably won't be able to just come up with it directly working great
mircea_popescu: i confess among the papers on my desk there's some various aproaches at word-distance and otherwise auto-tagging
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, so what, autgen the tags ?
diana_coman: tbh with categories also I start wondering if it's working at all or in fact it's still tags more useful anyway, without the pretense of neat and strict classification
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I do; and a few other bits that are on the list to change but on which I kept thinking "there will be a mp-wp theme" and then can tweak; hm, who was it, billymg ?
mircea_popescu: takes for fucking ever to scroll through otherwose
mircea_popescu: btw, don't you find the titles-only style for archives / categories better ?
diana_coman: aha; but atm at least I can't seem to find it either, sadly
mircea_popescu: lol. kinda the purpose of a good rand
diana_coman: hm, I *do* remember the idea but not having properly ranted on it (granted, I tend to forget it if I have a good rant over it, lol)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, srlsy ? the core of the argument was that google lists a supposed number of results, in the bns, but it never disgorges any significant count
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in further archeology, quid quodcumque faciemus, nomina nuda tenemus. trilema dixit!
mircea_popescu: where you were ranting about how it sucks, doesn't even give 5 of its claimed 5bn results, what reason could anyone have to believe the count
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl .
spyked: upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "lisp-flavoured erlang" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930246 <-- sooner or later /me is going to dive into sbcl, where he expects to find much of the rot that plagues e.g. python. so wut diff does it make?
mircea_popescu: this understanding is current as of cca 2016. meanwhile we agreed that because a) it is preferrable to work with republican rather than imperial items and to prevent more imperial seepage than needed ; and because b) there's no limit to signature count as per long standing observations and discussions (with a very early asciilifeform cca 2013 maybe) then therefore the correct approach is to sign things early, to get them i
spyked: mircea_popescu, as I understand the meaning of signature is "I understand how this thing works". if I sign it before reviewing it, there's nothing to show re. my understanding. am I getting this wrong?
mircea_popescu: somebody decides to spend some time towards reviewing. what do they do next ?
mircea_popescu: why first ? think you about it, how is the review supposed to work ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:38:59 trinque: more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I completely agree. fwiw, I can genesis hunchentoot next thing if somebody asks for it. but would rather have the thing reviewed first, a propos of: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 . IMHO gotta document it, so that I don't make the same mistakes when I attempt a sane http replacement
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 13:36:19 spyked: ^ ftr, this is an instance of ircbot sans the "pinger" thread and handling pings coming from the server. seems to be working fine (tho, in all fairness, so does feedbot for now)
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: yes, but the idea is that "let whoever signed the genesis evaluate your patches, rather than do it for them through the venue of keeping them phf'd"
spyked: also runs on ircbot, it *could* conceivably suffer from the same issue.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:25:26 trinque: wtf lol, how would the bot spend a lot of time in the notification mechanism?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930226 <-- to be clear, discussion was re. rss bot, which is built atop trinque's bot. I made the mistake of having a long-running operation on the main bot thread, which is the same thread that handles pongs and does lag tracking. imho the fault was 100% in the feedbot coad, but if deedbot
mircea_popescu: spyked, i'm starting to suspect, incidentally, that no cheekiness is involved, he simply never saw either instance, does something like two hours/week keeping track of things, and if that week has 25 hours' worth of logs and developments, well, gets 8%. hey trinque, are you current with the logs ? how descriptive is that model /
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 00:00:09 trinque: they have python ones that don't need any such prosthetic
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 22:40:51 asciilifeform: trinque: from the (very fragmentary) clues , seems to me that fella was demoralized somehow, for long time ( and possibly into bottle, tho tbf nothing specifically pointed to bottle )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:49:13 trinque: fuck me, drop the pretense and get on facebook messenger or w/e the kids use and be done with it
mircea_popescu: i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment.
mircea_popescu: "Needless to say, I am unamused ; and, to answer the original inquiry in firmer terms containing no ifs or buts : no, I personally have no further interest in hearing what phf may have to say on any topic. The time for "ok then, I will get my logger to spec by X date and hope to have my blog up by Y date" came and went, sometime yesterday.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:51:18 trinque: bringing things in closer, apparently phf's in the hospital or something, and is thus persona non grata?
mircea_popescu: moving on through the list of slightly dissociated questions : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930234 << iirc he was declaring self outpatient by aug 9th ; but yes persona non grata here, as per
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-25 03:30:20 spyked: trinque, could you pl0x share the ircbot auto-reconnect code that you're testing? I wanna give it a spin myself and give some time to ironing out whatever problems I might find.
spyked: mircea_popescu, tbh I find that to be a particularly cheeky question, since I asked him the same on more than one occasion and was greeted with silence.
mircea_popescu: oh yes, and some kind of evaluation of the prev plan.
spyked: mircea_popescu, yes, sorry for the confusion. the plan is to: post hunchentoot ep. 6 today, as per plan; and as september begins, post the plan for next month, which should include all the new things I'm working on (code, reviews of code, whatever arises in the meanwhile)
mircea_popescu: now help me out here. is the answer "late aug/early sept i will publish my sept workplan which'll include a date at which i intend to publish the answer to that q" ?
mircea_popescu: look, it's no great mystery i don't think, but in any case, here's what i do : i read the log, line by line, in order. currently i'm processing line http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228
spyked: mircea_popescu, no. feedbot is patched upon ircbot, not genesized (as per earlier log discussion), i.e. http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08a-feedbot-i.html ; http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08b-feedbot-ii.html ; http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08c-feedbot-iii.html ; this was planned to be the complete code, but sure, I'm testing the changes that I made and will publish a patch for it.
mircea_popescu: so is the idea feedbot gets abandoned a la lobbes' orig bot ?
spyked: there is a longer term plan that I have at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html , but experience shows that usually changes.