Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2019-07-24 | 2019-07-26 →
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, you know, i was thinking... since i have all these etc not presently used, might as well get a pizarro box set up trilema replication. do you actually have one ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, naive q : is there a way to trade footprint for speed, by keeping tlb count of instances, and executing instructions in "paralel" by piping them to each instance according to tlb layout ?
mp_en_viaje: so you'd never run ONE M but (i'm guessing) always 17 at a time
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "webforums, by retards, for retards"
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: the mp-wp on seems to be still stripping all tags; is it deployed without the patch or what?
diana_coman: myeah, so it was; BingoBoingo update your scripts or something, what's the point in deploying it with a known bug??
mp_en_viaje: weird, feedbot read in #eulora but not here.
mp_en_viaje: o look, it's unvoiced!
spyked: many apologies for the prolonged feedbot downtime yesterday; I had to go offline the whole day on meat business and working through this week's hunchentoot layer-peeling
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, you sound like you're having fun, lol
spyked: the bot will spit all the missing lines as soon as it gets voiced. meanwhile, deedbot seems down?
mp_en_viaje: spyked, we got one helluva tower of chairs going here!
mp_en_viaje: check out the kaibosh on diana_coman : she wrote an article, and published JUST AS feedbot got dropped ; it rejoined, and it'll announce just as... deedbot comes back to voice it.
mp_en_viaje: someone's back there with the voodoo dolls and spikes to the mouth!
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: din categoria daca-i ordin, cu placere, acolo.
diana_coman: ha, the bots don't like euloran graphics!!
spyked: trinque, could you pl0x share the ircbot auto-reconnect code that you're testing? I wanna give it a spin myself and give some time to ironing out whatever problems I might find.
mp_en_viaje: in other lulzies : /me has taken patreon's db (annoying fucks from the fetlife/linkedin/etc school of "inaccessible data", there's for instance no list of users on their website. because they expect your only knowledge of their thing to come from a user that contacted you [somehow].)
mp_en_viaje: because obviously, webchumpatron problems, tryna plug the value leaks, they figure if they misrepresent as a sort inca, sitting mysterious and unreachable on the top, and then let the do the work, then thereby... who kn
mp_en_viaje: ows, maybe this time the value extraction actually works ?!
mp_en_viaje: whether it works or doesn't ima still take everything they have any time i feel like, as a matter of course. because that's the hierarchy, republic owns empire-anything, no possible question about it.
mp_en_viaje: what there is a question about is whether there's actually any value in there, or am i just taking by republican priviledge a buncha 5yos chests full of rotten chocolate golden coins / self-drawn stock certificates / large sums of monyz written in crayon etc.
mp_en_viaje: so, given that cat patreon.sql | wc -w yields 692469510, anyone wanna register bets as to how many artists are gonna be smarter than an obnoxious cocksucker, and actually take the deal trudy famously didn't
a111: Logged on 2013-12-03 20:08 mircea_popescu: fucking artists with their complicated shoes. impossible to get a hold of.
mp_en_viaje: (and midnight_on_mars ineptly didn't, and so on the list -- as usually to their detriment, of course, but what fucking detriment can accrue to nobody-on-a-ramen-stick) ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:48 mircea_popescu: i kept trying to get a comic going, oglaf chick wouldn't do it, that midnight_on_mars dood with the too fucktarded to communicate...
mp_en_viaje: subsidiarily, i suppose, anyone got some really good idea of art-promoting-the-republic, or whatever.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, next rev.'s dhrystone ( vs. prev.'s )
a111: Logged on 2019-07-24 13:27 asciilifeform: meanwhile, overnight dhrystone .
asciilifeform: << closest thing to this would be where you actually emulate the traditional mips pipeline and have a thread per stage (e.g. inst decode, fetch, execute ) but this would be, if you think about it , ~even worse~ than current, tie up 5 cpu cores to emulate 1 little mips...
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 05:47 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, naive q : is there a way to trade footprint for speed, by keeping tlb count of instances, and executing instructions in "paralel" by piping them to each instance according to tlb layout ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, no, i actually mean parallelize execution
mp_en_viaje: i suppose in the end i;m just trying to rebuild the multi-layered cache and prefetch intel pipe in software.
asciilifeform: right, but how wouldja parallelize w/out typing up >1 pc cpu
mp_en_viaje abandons this line of inquiry.
asciilifeform: btw thing already sometimes spills into 2 cpu (there are slave threads for uart and clock)
asciilifeform: ( typically '101% cpu' when at full throttle )
asciilifeform: ( would still run on a 1cpu box, with slight penalty, tho, cuz unix scheduler )
mp_en_viaje: holy shit patreon is fucking stupid.
mp_en_viaje: so out of 22558500 supposed users, about 21.7mn (>96%) are name-only. of the remainder a similar proportion have one or more links to "social media" (mostly, youtube channels) that similarly exist in name only. of the remainder 30k or so, the VAST majority are incredibly gossipy idiots droning on and on about what some other "opposing" faction said on $socialmedia$ and THEREFORE CLEARLY etc. "so and so was suspicious
mp_en_viaje: ly silent on thus and so non-event therefore incomprehensible implication of no consequence".
mp_en_viaje: there's maybe a thousand or two actual whores working it as an escort service, and a few hundred deeply deranged individuals (hey, would yu like to buy a "hypnosis game" that "makes you" transsexual ? works on windows only)
mp_en_viaje: and... that's fuckng it.
asciilifeform: '... "hypnosis game" that "makes you" transsexual ?' << recall the 1990s idjits with 'audio drug' ?
asciilifeform: ( was mega-fad in msdos days -- proggy that prompts 'which dope', you select one, and then listen to 'hypnotic' squeals from headphone )
mp_en_viaje: oh, there's actually some pretty lulzy ammo re ye olde drugs discussion : they have here idiots who "audify" "problems" as a... i dunno, means to solve them.
mp_en_viaje: the logic transparently being that if drugs help you solve problems and audio drugs are drugs, therefore "listening" to "audification" of prpoblem...
asciilifeform: does it involve ear-wilting whine in headphone ?
mp_en_viaje: i did not actually play the shit.
mp_en_viaje: can prolly fish it out again if you must.
asciilifeform: at one pt i experimented with, among other lulz, playing suspect-rng via headphone , to find regularities
asciilifeform: but i suspect this aint what these had in mind
mp_en_viaje: worst bandwidth fucking process available ; and most filtered too.
mp_en_viaje: well, technically i suppose a rectothermalizer would be even worse, higher inertia.
asciilifeform: pretty atrocious, yes. ye olde 'ulam's spiral' worx 9000x better -- eyes
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: possibly surprisingly, there ~were~ braille displays which worked via heated pins
asciilifeform: ( but i suspect they 'cheated', cuz thermal expansion, can feel as pressure )
mp_en_viaje: many blind people are actually slightly visual in lower range tho
asciilifeform: rright but this was a thing one put finger on, covering the hole
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje actually wrote about this
mp_en_viaje: i did ?
mp_en_viaje: doesn't immediately come to mind
asciilifeform: hm. then nfi where saw.
asciilifeform: re 'patreon', i kept waiting for the mention of the most famous lolcow parked there, but since no one did : esr
asciilifeform: apparently after his 'reverse gear' 'surprised by wealth' he opened acct there. and claims to get thou's in beggolade.
asciilifeform: ( whether imaginary; or his handlers pay him this way; or actual chumpers from the wild, pay -- i have nfi )
asciilifeform: claims '226 PATRONS $2,339 PER MONTH'
mp_en_viaje: amusingly, this likely means i have the man's address, bank details, tax form thingee etc.
asciilifeform: not as if these are mega-seekrit even w/out
asciilifeform: why, did patreon's db leak out ?
mp_en_viaje: nfi who'd begruge an old man his 28k/year job
asciilifeform: lol job
mp_en_viaje: this item is mostly makework, you realise that ?
asciilifeform: i thought it were an automated begging thing
asciilifeform: 'put money in this here hat plz'
asciilifeform not , admittedly, master beggar, perhaps not qual'd to discuss. had even 'paypal' beggatron on www, in '07 or sumsuch, netted not 1 cent. then later replaced with btc addr, and one time someone sent entire coin ! and to this day occasionally nanobtc etc
asciilifeform: effective begging, as i understand, is a whoring/performance art, like street singing, takes dedication an' energy
mp_en_viaje: not really, they mostly exist as an extension of the 2000s "traffic analytics expert" thing
mp_en_viaje: it's a way for the "requirerment satisfiers" to spend a whole day not doing anything but nevertheless seeming like they worked to the "you can't accuse him of not working" standard.
mp_en_viaje: in ro there is this "teoria chibritului" thing, "a match is composed of three parts : the top part of the match, the middle part of the match, and the bottom part of the match. the top part of the match is in turn composed of three parts : the top part of the top part of the match, the middle part of the top part of the match, and the bottom part of the top part of the match. the middle part of the match..."
mp_en_viaje: then someone can spend most of the day checking whether you didn't accidentally a top for a middle somewhere...
asciilifeform: possibly i'm thick, but how does this work ? from surface , loox like thing where e.g. esr puts acct and then gets 'donation button' for his www, and idjits push, etc
mp_en_viaje: when we were kids it was a joke, but now it's pretty much all of legal practice, civil service, academia, homework, etcetera.
asciilifeform: lol zeno's match
mp_en_viaje: "how does it work". how does "traffic analytics" work ? "oh, you gotta DEFINE x y and z, then acquire "data" about them, then COMPARE it".
mp_en_viaje: can spend a whole fucking day match-theorizing.
mp_en_viaje: same principle throughout, "gotta declare goals", whatever
mp_en_viaje: #makework
asciilifeform: i thought the 'goals' crapola was in 'kickstarter' et al
mp_en_viaje: consider how your hosting works : "gotta upgrade".
mp_en_viaje: do you see the similarity ?
asciilifeform: afaik 'patreon' just has a bin where people invited to throw money
mp_en_viaje: afayk, nfs is "just hosts". the problem with your view is that it doesnt exist.
asciilifeform: reminds me, gotta get the replacement swapped in, thing could burn out literally any min.
asciilifeform fully backed up
asciilifeform: interestingly, i ran the #s, nfs's thing is no longer so cheap as in olden days, costs asciilifeform almost a thou./yr (us)
mp_en_viaje: Eric Raymond Ausley ?
asciilifeform: dunthinkso, the famous judas is [eric s. raymond][]
mp_en_viaje: o look, they actually entirely different dood
mp_en_viaje: ie userid 962938, in more practical terms
mp_en_viaje: aparently, 2048 rsa
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, HA! check this out : Loadsharers is a social network that has agreed to fund LBIPs through remittance services like Patreon, SubscribeStar, Liberapay, and PayPal. Loadsharers take the following pledge: "While I am gainfully employed, I will remit at least $30 a month to one, two, or three LBIPs, preferably 3."
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 13:25 mp_en_viaje: same principle throughout, "gotta declare goals", whatever
mp_en_viaje: dude's come up with a half-assed, buggy TMSR implementation out of chewing gum and pocket lint. and that TOOK TIME.
mp_en_viaje: << straight up shanonization, even.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "things you might've not known about",
mp_en_viaje: interesting tidbits (from an anthropological perspective what i'd call "super-real", ie, things people actually said that are closer to being the blueprint of the subculture rather than mere phenomena) : "Discord You can find our official discord chat here: Moved away from IRC, it was not used anyway."
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck would anyone prefer audio channel to irc is anyone's guess. here's mine : speaking takes less thought than writing / unit time.
mp_en_viaje: 2. "Hiya, just looking for some fun with new faces in the usual sorta way." << if this isn't the whole mating game...
asciilifeform: lol seems like they came up with buggy reimplementation of catholic church's tithe, rather than tmsr
asciilifeform: audio channel << recall we had some d00d who drummed out and then reportedly turned up in some audio-powered snakepit
asciilifeform: ( iirc thickasthieves )
mp_en_viaje: vaguely.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'll get to pressing an updated mp-wp
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: We have a vacant Rockchip
mp_en_viaje: nah, i think i need a proper box
mp_en_viaje: i mean, just the images are like 10gb
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rk is imho a proper box. 128GB storage, GB/s nic
asciilifeform: would be pretty good torture test of it
asciilifeform would really like to see how it behaves under troo honest load
mp_en_viaje: i dunno it'd necessarily get loaded as much, i mean who even loads atm for instance ?
BingoBoingo: I suspect where replicated trilema would hit its head on Rockchips is the MySQL database
mp_en_viaje: would it ?
asciilifeform: can't picture why
mp_en_viaje: it's not ~that~ large a db, bout 100mb or so
asciilifeform: diana_coman's box so far seems to soldier on w/out issue
mp_en_viaje: anyways, today ima be travelling, but we'll get back to this
asciilifeform: happy travels, mp_en_viaje
BingoBoingo: << Patreon seems to overlap ~93% with the incel crowd
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 12:44 mp_en_viaje: so out of 22558500 supposed users, about 21.7mn (>96%) are name-only. of the remainder a similar proportion have one or more links to "social media" (mostly, youtube channels) that similarly exist in name only. of the remainder 30k or so, the VAST majority are incredibly gossipy idiots droning on and on about what some other "opposing" faction said on $socialmedia$ and THEREFORE CLEARLY etc. "so and so was suspicious
mp_en_viaje: i think by now the internet does.
BingoBoingo: There's the girls that could be whoring instead selling almost naked pics (because the audience can't handle actually naked). games that aren't games but "visual novels", erotica by and for people who've never had anything erotic in their lives, etc
BingoBoingo: We're going to need a lot of reddit bags
mp_en_viaje: actually, those girls make ok whore fodder, will fly if you buy their ticket, will swallow it if you feed them etc.
mp_en_viaje: kinda moral duty to pick one or a few up an' warehouse 'em in preference of some insufferable princess.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I don't doubt it. Probably have to get past the self defense mechanisms they've developed against their own usual audience
mp_en_viaje: it's why you keep a blog.
mp_en_viaje: "here's a bunch of others just like you" is the #1 sales pitch for females. "how bad could it be, rite"
BingoBoingo: Then the baby turtles and duckling just sweeten the deal
BingoBoingo: As to why "visual novels" over actual games there's something called Renpy that has the code done already so they just need their rendered in a game engine pictures and awful text content
BingoBoingo: We're going to need a lot of reddit bags
BingoBoingo: Still further, the "visual novel" abuse lends itself to they Patreon abuse model as well, because... it incentives making shit episodic while calling the episodes "updates"
BingoBoingo: 's like tards talk altcoins
asciilifeform: hrm deedbot down ?!
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : read+write tlb caching nao gives 'pentium 166' both in userland and kernel, instead of 'pentium 166' in kernel and '486' in user. but still ugh. )
mp_en_viaje: trinque, ^
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 03:21 asciilifeform: ( short spoiler : if you ensure that neither tlb nor 'asid' has changed since last tlb lookup, and current vaddr's tag is same as during last lookup, can use same pfn (i.e. tlb lookup result) as then. )
asciilifeform: also includes fastpath exception handlers (i.e. instead of the conditional tree from genesis ver) and a 'cheat' for tlbwr ('tlb write random') instruction so that it puts recently-created tlb entries near the base of the table, where reached faster while searching.
asciilifeform: theoretically possible that a multi-entry tlb cache would speed up. but not knowable apriori, cuz searching multiple entries also costs.
asciilifeform: ( cache lives in xmm regs, so as to avoid accessing ram. and they're mostly used up, there's 3 left unused )
asciilifeform: originally i expected a 50+% speedup, but the cache mechanism itself eats cycles.
asciilifeform: executable nao 'bloated' to 14kB...
asciilifeform: unless someone reads the thing and finds some major optimization that i missed, thing is really at the point of severely diminishing returns, plain old 'cycle massage' won't get much.
asciilifeform: anyone who has a spare 5min, invited to post output of 'time dhrystone 10000000' along with on what iron etc.
asciilifeform: ( (a) -- in 'M', (b) -- on the host iron )
asciilifeform: ( likbez for n00bz : mips 'exception handlers' have 0 to do with what normally goes by this name, it is what the mips standard calls what normal people refer to as interrupts & traps )
asciilifeform: ... and yes there is actually a standard. even sold as dead tree b00k, called 'see mips run'
asciilifeform: not as gloriously pedantic as ada's docs, but similar in flavour.
ave1: asciilifeform: I used to own a pentium 90, it ran everything just fine at the time.
asciilifeform: ave1: my 486 also 'ran just fine' lol
asciilifeform: and so did the 386..
mp_en_viaje: i suppose this was pre-mathlulz pentium
asciilifeform: i had the mafflulz pentium, also ran 'just fine' if you didn't use the float stack
mp_en_viaje: true enuff
asciilifeform: 'm' btw has -- like most actual mips irons -- no float stack. if you run proggy that demands it, ends up invoking linux's
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, duck duck go is actually written in... perl
mp_en_viaje: to go with the amusing discovery patreon is mysql with python glue.
ave1: like 387...
mp_en_viaje: the tech stack of the web is ever lulzy.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm almost surprised it wasn't microshit
mp_en_viaje: microshit what, visual basic ?
mp_en_viaje: i half-expect most of this shit is run out of excel
asciilifeform: microshit's www platform, i fughet what it was
mp_en_viaje: .net something ?
mp_en_viaje: i think it died
mp_en_viaje: about the time "" croaked or thereabouts.
asciilifeform: alive & well, so to speak, in usg sites & similar
ave1: asp, still used
mp_en_viaje: for srs ?!
asciilifeform: lol wtf is that
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'software sux', apparently there aint a profiling tool that'll work on linux with proggy written 100% in asm
asciilifeform: i.e. one where there is nowhere to put c-istic hooks
asciilifeform: (e.g. 'gprof' -- useless for subj)
asciilifeform: there's 'callgrind' but seems to produce nonsense..
spyked: asciilifeform, iirc perf has "annotate" tool that works on asm?
asciilifeform: spyked: pointedly a tool that requires modification of the binary, is worthless here
asciilifeform: given as thing is written by hand to max the pipeline , avoid hitting ram, etc
spyked: I dun understand. what modification?
spyked: to be clear, I'm talking about the "perf" tool that comes with linux
asciilifeform: maybe i misread ? what is 'annotation' in this context
asciilifeform: spyked: none of my linuxen seem to have 'perf'
asciilifeform: will have to look into where it can be had from
asciilifeform: spyked: do you happen to have a link to src tarball handy ?
spyked: asciilifeform, it's part of the linux kernel tree, can be found in tools/perf. disclaimer: it uses hardware counters to get accurate samples for profiling, so accurate results might be dependent on the cpu you're running on
asciilifeform: strange then that it aint on any of my boxen
asciilifeform: for instance this one here is with kernel 3.8 , and no 'perf'
asciilifeform found it in /usr/linux/src/tools , but dunbuild, barfs, 'wrong libc'
asciilifeform: contemptible garbage.
spyked: ugh, dunno why it asks for glibc. the only specific item it might require would be kernel knob for counters or whatever.
asciilifeform: 'Makefile:542: *** No gnu/libc-version.h found, please install glibc-dev[el]/glibc-static. Stop.'
spyked used perf with some limited degree of success in the past. could measure cache/tlb/branch predictor misses with it. but admittedly, never tried it on non-glibc systems.
asciilifeform: spyked: this here ~is~ a glibcistic system, frozen in amber circa 2011 or so
asciilifeform: ( and aint about to swap libcs, esp. nao that heathen 'portage' is 100% dead )
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 21:34 asciilifeform: << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness : callgrind output. not 100% useless
asciilifeform: ^ corresponds to approx 10min of runtime
asciilifeform: ^ seems to correspond to the following cut : ~15% time in type-i instrs.; ~4.35% in r-type; 25.5% in memory read/write (incl. tlbisms) ; but the rest, doesn't say...
asciilifeform: 55% unaccounted for.
asciilifeform: wtf sorta rubbish is this...
asciilifeform: doesn't even seem to account for the slave threads (possibly total # of cycles is sum of all? which is idiotic)
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, but i mean, if you can;t have the hooks put in, then how is it supposed to profile ?!
mp_en_viaje: !!up bvt_away
mp_en_viaje: oh this is getting ridoinculous.
mp_en_viaje: trinque, what happened to poor deedbot!11
asciilifeform: << traditionally, when can't hook, profiler randomly suspends process coupla mil times, and counts where stopped how many #
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 19:39 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, but i mean, if you can;t have the hooks put in, then how is it supposed to profile ?!
mp_en_viaje: i don't think this can still be done
mp_en_viaje: ianap, but.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i did it earlier, lol, pasted ('callgrind'). but needs some knob-turnin' so as to focus on just the main thrd
mp_en_viaje is duly impressed.
mp_en_viaje: usure ?
mp_en_viaje: after the sjlj adventure i'm in denial.
asciilifeform: half the pt of the 'm' thing was to be to sew together a comp where can-sure
mp_en_viaje: fair enuff
asciilifeform: ( ~that~ turned out to be the easier 90% , lol )
mp_en_viaje: took me a while to understand wtf was happening after clicking that link
mp_en_viaje: maybe we should start with chan-based colorization, everyone pick a background
asciilifeform: lol i thought it was all same b&w on mp_en_viaje's 'lynx'
asciilifeform: holyfuq, ~6~ mp_en_viaje pieces in absence of deedbot..
asciilifeform: trinque: are you having a 'dulap-I'-style problem ??
BingoBoingo: I am starting to suspect more than 75% of the the "literate" population can't read faster than audio delivers to them.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-25 14:13 mp_en_viaje: why the fuck would anyone prefer audio channel to irc is anyone's guess. here's mine : speaking takes less thought than writing / unit time.
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell mp_en_viaje Someone wandered into #pizarro from the wilds and expressed an interest in the last RockChip. Let me know how interested you are in setting up a box if you get a chance to terminal before hitting the road again
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje et al : lulzily, if there existed a cycle-accurate emulator of ~pc~ , accurate profiling would be trivial -- simply allocate a word for each instr., and increment that word when the instr executes
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje et al : thinking re 'bigpicture' -- i suspect that my approach was ill-conceived from beginning. instead of a mips-iii, if doing such thing -- oughta have implemented a radically simplified item with dozen or so instructions; for which could then bake 'fittable in head' bellardistic dynamic emu. and then retarget gcc to it.
asciilifeform: then would actually add up to something usable.
asciilifeform: prolly would've added up to less sweat, too.
asciilifeform: mips, for all its schoolbook popularity, has whole buncha non-orthogonal instrs (e.g. movz/movn, beq/bne, etc. pairs, where only diff is negation; all the signed/unsigned pairs, wtf, if you want signed arithm, let compiler do the fucking sign extension ; and all the unaligned byte-addressing ops, fuck'em, let'em address on whole words like bolix, and suck it up, and bonus , lose 'endianism')
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in the dominant local noise of the moment: "Joven de origen judío aparece junto a Guido Manini con una inscripción neonazi"
BingoBoingo: What Google via returns for the "Nazi" string "HKN KRZ"
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