asciilifeform: get'em while they're alive. last time for 6mo i was convinced it was outta print permanently
asciilifeform: is actually why new rk plant -- will be sold to folx using conventional www stack etc, traditional softs, even trinque's vpnism idea, and the like.
asciilifeform: i was orig. planning to attempt a cuntoo for 'm' but then barfed
trinque: nah, the one where you can tell portage to blast its built-proggie output to a new root
trinque: looking for what the env variable is
trinque: possible avenue of porting is to stand up an amd64 cuntoo, and then use crossdev to rebuild all ebuilds at a specified root dir
trinque: trying to learn in my old age to take half a smell of the market before hauling off and building something
asciilifeform: trinque: is there a substantial missing piece i'm unaware of ?
trinque: asciilifeform: I mean whether cuntoo is desirable as is.
asciilifeform: trinque: well i'm about to sew together a 15 unit arm64 cluster.
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931886 << didn't, and I'm a little hesitant to continue on in that vein before making sure I know what the desirable product is.
asciilifeform: perhaps brazil will buy the place, for nuke waste dump.
asciilifeform: i doubt ( and esp. after mp barfed ) that anyone would buy live argentines at any price point . it's like trying to sell sewer rats. normally you gotta ~pay~ someone to trap & remove these.
BingoBoingo: A labor movement that wants the factories to leave has no use.
asciilifeform: as it is, hot waste from chernobyl is actually moar marketable ( there are actual uses for e.g. co-60 )
asciilifeform: if owner of argentina wants someone to buy it, could start whenever he wants by sending in the wood chippers and mulching the 'samba si, trabajo no' aboriginals 24/7 until leaves the 2% or what who were the reasonable auto mechanics etc .
BingoBoingo: The wide blackboard spread is because no one wants to sit on pesos argentinas
asciilifeform: ook cuz otherwise wtf
BingoBoingo: Other direction
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The cambios buy per 0.38, sell for 0.98. Very infrequent the blackboard rate is used with Argentine pesos, usually cambios offer better rates on pesos Argentinos for all but trivial volumes.
asciilifeform: or do i misread the #s somehow
snsabot: Logged on 2017-06-08 13:09:01 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
BingoBoingo: The blackboard rate today hit 0.38/0.98 compra/venta. Part of this is intentional monetary policy re: "fuck Argentina", but there being less distance between zero and compra than compra and venta is a fairly new phenomenon.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: picture if you had a herd of worm-ridden cows that produced 0 milk, and meat that no one would eat even in gulag. how to make any money from them ? one way is to keep feeding'em and 'financialize' them, borrow against'em from idiots, 'leverage', etc
asciilifeform: they almost certainly have an internal bezzle that considers the sank moneys as 'asset' of some sort.
BingoBoingo: No one depends on the strength of Argentine paper holding to prop up anything. Even Uruguay has adopted a strict decoupling from Argentina so as to not sink with them.
asciilifeform: ( and then idjits noticing 'someone paid for this! it must be worth sumthing' )
BingoBoingo: I don't see a situation where the Chicoms step in to save Argentina. Argentina isn't rich in natural resources like Vzla.
asciilifeform: not required hypothesis -- lafondistani monkey also shoots at usg bureaucrat if happens to get in range
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats.
asciilifeform: they already went through... 2 ? 3 ? 'default' 'refinance' 'rinse & repeat' cycles ?
asciilifeform: argentina aint even peculiar in this respect, exactly same q can be asked re usa & the rest of reich
asciilifeform: ( or, alternative rewrite of same equation, that the resourced to clean up the gangrenous pus from puncturing the bezzle, aint available )
BingoBoingo: I suspect Mandarin is not a language in the mundane sense.
BingoBoingo: Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population.
asciilifeform: their 'wait for his corpse to float by'(tm) school of thought, is more impenetrable imho than their hieroglyphs.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for )
BingoBoingo: 4 real, Also Argentina is now officially in "selective default" after the latest round of Derpities announced trying to keep hell from breaking loose before October 27th.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 04:51:18 mircea_popescu: it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself.
asciilifeform: atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the ratchet presently does not ratchet very well.
asciilifeform: and then you might find, as i did, that gnat.sockets mysteriously barfs in certain cases
asciilifeform: ( and it'd in turn have to use pg's c ffi, afaik there's no other usable glue for it at all )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any
diana_coman: given this, I seriously wonder if it can be much worse to make it in ada on top of all the gnat-mess including unbounded strings and gnat.sockets and everything else; at least the full gnat so far *is* more transferable
asciilifeform: even when i was sewing 'pehbot' , out of ben & trinque's cl logbot, found that it took substantial effort to get the req'd cl libs onto the box
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this'
diana_coman: as usual, there's no lack of "tools", lolz; only none does anything other than eating up more time, ofc.
asciilifeform: this is pretty much the last thing i'd be recommending to people to do, save for the fact that i shat out a log sys in it, lol
diana_coman: there is pip and some easy_install
asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was
asciilifeform: gentoo has , in any given instance, fuckknowswhat, BUT at least reliably pulls down the particular necessary strand of the spittoon, typically
asciilifeform: diana_coman i'm curious how you went about installing the libs on yours
diana_coman: well, by now it seems to me that either ALL match, or otherwise headache; and I suspect that at the next level it's simply either same repo/distro or won't match
asciilifeform: i think that covers all the crapolade
diana_coman: asciilifeform: thanks; and yes, the .ext.cache trouble seems to be re v 0. or 1., ugh
asciilifeform: the cache thing is unused, as lobbes pointed out 2wks ago, you can safely comment it out
diana_coman: the full list of stuff pulled in by flask seems to be: flask Werkzeug itsdangerous Jinja2 MarkupSafe
diana_coman: I have python 2.7.16 flask 1.1.1 and werkzeug 0.15.5 from what I see and the reader.py fails complaining that there is no flask.ext.cache , which seems to be again some version-shenanigans
diana_coman: asciilifeform: mind giving the exact versions for flask, werkzeug and whatever other shit is used in there?
asciilifeform: the only knob in bot that actually gives a shit re the reader is the search knob ( see where it expects to find the # of results ) .
asciilifeform: it is in fact possib. to use 1 w/out the other ( e.g. asciilifeform's adhoc mirrors have only reader.py ; one could sit a bot using solely bot.py and then write yer own viewer at leisure ; and so on )
asciilifeform: the former sits in irc and records lines, answers cmds, etc. ; the latter serves up the httpized logism.
asciilifeform: to be utterly pedantic : the log sys consists of 2 separate py proggies that share a db (normally expected on same box, but can in principle be elsewhere). bot.py and reader.py
asciilifeform: diana_coman: naturally and postgres. i was speaking of the py glues.
asciilifeform: the log viewer represented in the vtree simply serves itself on given local port when it runs. which you can then fwd to wherever.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i at one pt blamed that coupling for the slow, and measured (plain rev.proxy vs 'wsgi' (equiv of php's fastcgi) , found 0 diff
diana_coman: ah, shall see; *if* the bot runs at all, that is.
diana_coman: maybe that's also the "wrong" version...
diana_coman: well, I have at least fully explored the 1-strand spittoon: psycopg2 on python 2.7 wants postgresql 9 or greater and so it goes.
asciilifeform: there's imho a ~huge~ chunk of problem domain that is begging for a simple, well-specified, ~frozen~ scripting lang.
asciilifeform: imho the Right Thing for this problem domain would be a tmsr-baked script lang built from ground, like-this . but so far no one has the free hands.
asciilifeform: ( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' )
asciilifeform: ( considering, it is in py , interpreted lang, and my pages are generated approx on par with speed of phf's , at the immediate shitting arse end (discounting pipe delay ) )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 02:58:26 mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing.
asciilifeform: if i had to pick it up all now for 1st time, dunno if could bring myself to -- it has absolutely atrocious feel to it (esp. given the 'modern' docs)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' , 'psycopg', etc. are erry bit as rubbish as the docs suggest. with the twist that the assemblage actually worx ( phuctor's been running, incl. under various abuses , for yrs , on same ) .
diana_coman: I think I got a boatload of the good intentions part.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: and I think it was the best option available, yes.
asciilifeform: result was the item nao running.
asciilifeform: then thought 'cl', then noticed that will need 9000 unexplored (by asciilifeform) lib liquishits for pg, http, etc.; then 'fuck it, i'ma cut up phuctor and sew from its still-twitching living pieces'
asciilifeform: when i 1st sat down to write it, thought 'ada', then realized that simply to make the necessary glue would take a year, and that's if did nuffin else.
diana_coman: myeah; in case it's not clear - none of the above was a complaint re asciilifeform's work at all.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the main q is: in wtf exactly
asciilifeform: i made it 'low tech' to the point of people tearing out their hair from missing features, but result is that it is small enuff that could rewrite .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you (or anyone) rewrite the logger -- i'ma clap
asciilifeform: ( tho even gnat deviates from the paper, in several already discovered cases, sadly )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you decide to fiddle with the proggy so it goes on 2.6, prolly can be done ; but keep in mind that i will not be able to run yours anywhere, there's no 2.6 on any known gentoo of past decade or so.
diana_coman: ah, yes, I'm sure 2.6ism would break 2.7, it's more this "fun" of code reuse; and I can ofc install python 2.7 on top; I seriously wonder though what's really the fastest route; because also, above it doesn't even seem to be print, it barfs when importing flask, a few layers deep in werkzeug and whatever
asciilifeform: to make life even more 'interesting', there aint a magical version that can pick and 'will work on all of'em' . 2.6isms break on 2.7 just same.
asciilifeform: ( there's quite a few, turns out; e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-12#1626258 . all 2.7 )
diana_coman: centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' is the http shitting lib. i've used same 1 since 2013 (phuctor)
diana_coman: that flask thing gives me the hives
asciilifeform: then -- yer gentoo has turned into equiv. of hand-sewn buildroot linux, where sure you can install things, but nao gotta manually tar ... ./configure && make && make install etc
asciilifeform: these will sorta work (if you make absolutely sure not to emerge --sync, EVER) ~until~ you find that some package is no longer alive on the (quite wilted) mirrors
lobbes: asciilifeform: my testbed box is a trinqueian cuntoo (see: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
asciilifeform meanwhile puzzles over where the fuck weldable m3 nuts are to be had
asciilifeform: i simply used the item that was known to work solidly w/ phuctor, when wrote the logger, was all.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the extension pg_trgm thingies does exist; it's the loading that is different
diana_coman: create extension was introduced in 9; so earlier versions will puke there.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: myeah, 8 here; and no "create extension" so had to change the scripts to load the thing
lobbes: haven't tried on any other versions yet
asciilifeform: diana_coman: oughta work with 9 and 10, not tried others
asciilifeform: both lobbes and diana_coman , lemme know when yer ready to sync, i'ma manually refresh the db dump
asciilifeform: diana_coman: also imho it'd be neat if you wrote about how built the mirror, nitpicks, etc. for n00bz. ( i did not have time to write a pedantic cookbook, and as you can see even the readme had mistakes )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931889 << diana_coman this is so, i found recently when making mirror . feel free to submit a patch to amend the readme, otherwise it'll go in my next one.
lobbes is determined to beat diana_coman to getting the 2nd logger online
lobbes: In other news, I'm emerging a LAMP stack on my new server. Once complete I'll start futzing with getting the logotron stood up
lobbes: I did reach back out to one of the helpful 50 yo subs I talked to though; she actually suggested meeting for coffee sometime, to which I said I'd love to. Hopefully will prove to be a pleasant and educational meeting
lobbes: "This "boy meets girl, they adultify each other" model is pure halucinatoria, the very substance of delirium and psychosis. It does not exist, nor ever has existed, nor ever will exist in reality." << sheesh, I've seen that model before
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:07:52 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931835 << that was an educational footnote,ty. Also a good reminder that I am still in 'dirt' status, and to not let any of the cannibals out there try and lead me back into pretense
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 18:09:22 trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma weld the support nuts to the pedestal, this time, nomoar fiddlings in hotel room.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile rk (16) + heat sinks bought. 1st major chunk of the new crate. 670 ($) . ( still need cabling, ps , the ssd's, and naturally to assemble. )
BingoBoingo: In local news, don't skimp on the quicklime https://www.sudestada.com.uy/articleId__1a7440e0-0947-439f-9437-327a3cb95b6e/10893/Detalle-de-Noticia
asciilifeform: meanwhile, asciilifeform realized that can use standard 1u atx ps, w/ 'breakout board' , to get the req'd 20A 5v + 1A 12v.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise
asciilifeform: annoyingly , they all run on 12v, so can't use single-output 5v high current thing like i was initially planning, for the entire thing
asciilifeform: ( 1 hole is taken up by the exit cable )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile i found a fitting GB switch. 1u plant will thereby house 15 rk .
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931861 << ought add, it will also create strong headache when the other bots stand up. none of the links will be guaranteed portable b/w bots , even if pains are taken to sync clocks. they drift.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:18:37 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931846 << ameritards wrote books where all examples given in translit ! moar or less guaranteeing that whoever studies from these, can only parrot -- and poorly, the phonemes dun correspond to the eng ones ( tho funnily enuff they mostly exist in ru )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:19:07 mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)
mircea_popescu: apparently the prev one also
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931769 << but if you redirect both you end up with endless redirect, and if you only redirect one either the server doesn't know what link is sought or the client doesn't scroll to the desired position.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931765 << let's not js anymoar, experince shows it's never the right answer
mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 20:17:11 asciilifeform: interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su.
mircea_popescu: n "find allies" and "break down the priviledge"... the intellectual socioeconomy of ustarded morons is quite well understood by now.)
mircea_popescu: so then she picks the garbage pile the rooster sits on, calls it aifl tower and tells all her ingroup. cuz right, it makes sense, rooster ? gaelic cock ? it's even kinda shaped similarily! then through the "beauty" of the internet her stupid fucking son is going to pester dictionary writers to "be inclusive" and treat the eiffel tower ~AS A CLASS~ rather than as an item, and discuss "other examples" in the first stage, the
mircea_popescu: gly bumps on her chest are her boobs! like she's seen in the hotter older girls with real boobage.
mircea_popescu: (and, for completeness, i find the misrepresentation thereof as "ethical feeling" as displayed in ustarded tradition from carnegie to buffett ~particularly~ galling. it is EXACTLY iliterate huswife hearing on the radio them paris folk have dat aifl towers and going about her courtyard to identify "what could be that them aifl tower in here". cuz everything has one, right, she knows, like when she was a little girl, those u
mircea_popescu: so in practical, male, power-constructed terms, however you wish to call this : if you fail to make good because you spent all your resources hailing twennysomethings, that's a failure of education (ie, blame the parents, shoulda told you better), but if you fail to make it because couldn't find support in the old guard, well, that's the plain failure to thrive (blame self).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down.
mircea_popescu: meaning from seeking power to seeking potential (the reagent / driver is the marginal disutility of money, rather than simple sclerosis, to be clear).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 19:55:35 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,
mircea_popescu: (i'm pretty sure they would by specific request)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 19:59:18 lobbes: incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931721 << well, or maybe some of the rotakus in attendance take pity on the inquisitve minds wanting to know and trasnlate some
asciilifeform: ( for folx not following in depth -- fleanode does not emit timestamps; they come from local machine where a given logotron ran when it logged a line )
asciilifeform: ( note, they can still be displayed in calendarized pages , as now )
asciilifeform: i suggested in orig thrd, to throw out the date from url. lessee what mircea_popescu thinks.
asciilifeform: my present take on all of this : it ~is~ possible for loggers to agree on ~order~ of lines ( albeit in corner cases, difficult ). however it is not possible for them to properly agree re absolute time. ( and in fact the timestamps in the imported logs are all over the place )
asciilifeform: ( should we even have it in the links..? not as if quoting bot doesn't spew the date when quoting )
asciilifeform: $date would be unused by the parser, while still being correct in all newly-emitted links
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:30:38 trinque: how? you'd have /log/$channel/$date/$canonicalId and use the latter for line lookup, and the penultimate for paging
asciilifeform: so seems like best formulation so far is http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931788 plus the proggy feeds client always 301 to the above with #x appended .
trinque: turns out I'm quite tired. I think the above is probably the cleanest solution. will think moar and rejoin thread
asciilifeform: it's headache, but as i understand the shitsoup standard offers no clean knob for it
trinque: yep, so I retract the UUID proposal.
trinque: how? you'd have /log/$channel/$date/$canonicalId and use the latter for line lookup, and the penultimate for paging
asciilifeform: trinque: this would simply throw the problem into the lap of people trying to make own loggers that sync with mine.
trinque: isn't the former already contemplated?
trinque: I wouldn't even consider it a sin if you just went back and fixed all the links to point to present logger, and in so doing, fixed the format.
asciilifeform: but at the same time all links are displayed on www from within a calendarized page just as now , with date in the base url ( the date my logger believes they occurred on )
asciilifeform: it means that the lookup must be by idx, not by date
asciilifeform: trinque: visit the linked thread, it is short.
trinque: lemme go back and try and figure out what exactly is the problem you're trying to solve, unless you'd endulge me with a restatement, because I don't think I'm following.
trinque: this is the batshit and denuding coad diana_coman wanted !
asciilifeform: currently closest thing i had to a workable idea is /chan/idx#x ( where #x is simply a fixed string ) and generated page contains #x in the right pos, and coloured line there.
asciilifeform: trinque: see linked mircea_popescu thread. it appears to be the case that anchors in fact are not transmitted to the remote end, at all.
asciilifeform: trinque: i dun think i understand the q
asciilifeform: ( the reason for this itch is that i have found it to be impossible to guarantee that all dates agree )
trinque: what on the backend determines URL routing?
asciilifeform: ( incl. the page scroll to anchor and highlight must remain working just as now )
asciilifeform: i.e. errything oughta work just as presently, BUT with the index being the actual determinator of where link goes.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-27 11:35:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931353 << phf yer missing the point , i need so that http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758070 AND http://btcbase.org/log/1945-07-16#758070 go to same thing !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-27 13:27:15 mircea_popescu: add to that the FUCKING INSANE tlp being annoying as fuck, i'm having a blogging crisis over here
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-27 11:17:48 asciilifeform: it'd have to by the ugly-as-arse /log/chan/index#index or sumsuch
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931384 << what's the url you want to have? possibly doable as apache-level URL rewrite
BingoBoingo: lobbes: Well, the idea behind Qntra is if you see a lol, you share the lol and through this process Qntra grows in both author count and in lol enjoying population
asciilifeform is thinking, prolly he is the last 1 who oughta give folx advice re languages. his methods , likely , are applicable to ~nobody. prolly even mircea_popescu's method ( house pets ) is moar widely usable .
asciilifeform: lobbes: normally folks start with the kana ( or you can't even read a normal dictionary or kindergarten-level book etc )
lobbes: this may go to mircea_popescu's old point of "with language, like sex, there is no drawbacks to starting with master class"
asciilifeform: hieroglyphs -- to the annoyance of white devils -- ea. have at least 2 pronunciations, dep. on context
asciilifeform: there's the hieroglyphs ('kanji') which cover normal adult lit , or rather 95%; connective tissue , proper names, older loan words -- in 'hiragana' ( syllabic ); 'katakana' ( a sort of minimalist hiragana, moar 'runic' aesthetic ) largely for foreign words, names of dirty euro devils, some children's lit.
lobbes: I was thinking katakana ~= "italicized" in eng. this is not the case?
lobbes: I never made it to the actual grammar
lobbes: now this is interesting. Once I understood that they had two distinct scripts with identical phonemes purely to denote emphasis/no-emphasis I got a little spooked that the rest would be way too insane to understand
asciilifeform: perhaps one day jp will rip out of the yoke...
asciilifeform: lobbes: if you abstract past the hieroglyphs-- is easier to eat than any euro lang. no declensions, no conjugation , very little of what euro folx normally think of as grammar gnarl.
asciilifeform: interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su.
lobbes: I assume that having quality material with which to read is a good motivator as well. I confess to trying to learn Japanese for a spell; memorized most of the hiragana, started on the katakana, and then went "when the hell will I ever USE this??" then kind of stopped
lobbes: incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read
lobbes: It shouldn't be a surprise that I weigh mircea_popescu's advice in such matters with a tad more weight, so when it lines up with my observations in the field it usually is a sign I'm on the right track
lobbes: The youngsters, while friendly, seemed more preoccupied with 'playing scenes' (which are a blast to watch, dun get me wrong, but I desire moar)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 15:00:36 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to can be bothered with you in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant.
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 14:29:52 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931645 << congrats lobbes ! tested -- worx. i still gotta do same in my www ( and munge the 9000 old-fashioned selects.. )
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931658 << ty! I got some old-fashioned selects to update as well, tho not nearly as many as asciilifeform and mircea_popescu. Prolly the only good aspect right now of having a nascent blog atm
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 11:40:23 BingoBoingo: lobbes: In other news, its been 4 years since you last wrote for Qntra, but you are still very welcome to contribute.
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931653 << ty BingoBoingo. I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for lulz, but I'll be honest in that the quality of Qntra over the years has been so good that I barely get my lulz from any other source these days!
mircea_popescu: no, it's from the epoch where teens whined that omfg, "she's claiming not to be a whore but expects me to pay for the coffee"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 15:00:36 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to can be bothered with you in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant.
asciilifeform: mostly these folx had 'medical' epaulettes.
asciilifeform: never found out what is the max rank for orc in usa army. perhaps there's an orc general even somewhere.
asciilifeform: i specifically recall a ru d00d. rank of no less than major. a: 'what the hell are you doing here' he : 'what ~you~ doing here'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one time there was (is?) such a thing as 'theoretical' soldiers, in usa army. you walk in with a diploma, they sew you a uniform, you go an' 'soldier' in e.g. lab salt mine. at one time asciilifeform worked in a place fulla these. but even they looked moar like someone you could put in a field, than this.
BingoBoingo: Well, the thing is once USG turned to waivers to put more dole on the defense budget... I can't tell if those are enlisted marines or honored "make a wish" outreach victims.
asciilifeform: 'here is light infantry, they get 1l of cocacola / d.' 'here -- heavy infantry, they get 3L.'
BingoBoingo: My impression is that the group is "chromosone heavy" infantry
asciilifeform: ( if these were in sovok, could be tank brigate, iirc you had to be under 160cm )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have not found context for the where it is from yet
asciilifeform wondered -- on acct of what reich use case, did they actually bother to optimize for ram-filling photo. perhaps spy sats ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not improbably, but I suspect in newer GIMPS the edge cases are further degraded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: asciilifeform was 1 time 'lucky' enuff to find an edge case where gimp barfed and had to resort to a heathen photo editor on toilet box . ( stitching segments of photos that weighed GB+ , in the lispm reversing series. on very similar irons, the heathen proggy ran, gimp -- ground to halt. i suspect gimp has some o(n^2)-isms in it. )
BingoBoingo: GIMP is the perfect example of, "does what you want *UNLESS* you upgrade"
asciilifeform liked 'gimp' , aside from the asinine window system. even got it to work with electric pen thing at one pt
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: which reminds me : i'll be buying 4 of these.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This still is for no fault of the coreboot team. Not when the libreboot transteam went and broke things that already worked under coreboot
asciilifeform: the 1 exception being 'apu1' , but is sewn from 2013 'g-series' that amd is constantly threatening to 'end of life'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the last x86 irons that actually work with 'coreboot', recall, were sold in '13.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha. but coup of already corpse project. sorta like 'robbing' 1 of those boarded up banks that closed in 2000s, that litter the landscape in east ameristan
mircea_popescu: 30yo with no experience has exactly 0 business talking to 20something subbies as a general rule, it's a complete mismatch, like taking pepper and cinnamon TO the indies.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you recall the 'coreboot'->'libreboot' tardism -- was similar, maggot eruption after many many yrs of decay in the grave.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 08:01:06 lobbes: it was maybe a month or so ago (and over the interwebz), so I can't remember fully, but I want to say she was ~25 years old mebbe
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to can be bothered with you in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That's one level of retardation. Crying ableism when visual media is inaccessible to the totally blind is a completely other level of retardation.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 00:25:55 lobbes: meanwhile, I've found the trilema for server-side selection. Will apply and report back
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931645 << congrats lobbes ! tested -- worx. i still gotta do same in my www ( and munge the 9000 old-fashioned selects.. )
BingoBoingo: Now it could be the case the Para-rotary firm needs to fill seats with cheap Uru-rotary college boys and is simply over estimating the value of Uru-rotary paper holders.
BingoBoingo: And in supremely sad local economic indicators a Paraguayo "alternative" firm made the news for targeting Uruguay with the offer. Local media not particularly skeptical.
BingoBoingo: lobbes: In other news, its been 4 years since you last wrote for Qntra, but you are still very welcome to contribute.
lobbes: it was maybe a month or so ago (and over the interwebz), so I can't remember fully, but I want to say she was ~25 years old mebbe
mircea_popescu: incidentally, lobbes , not to cramp your style, but... how old was the subbie you propositioned ?