(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... everything I imported into its db.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for anyone interested in the raw logs and/or the historical dump of the old logger, I've added the raw logs and archives page; the archive for the active/currently logged chans will be updated at least daily and is plain-text ie doesn't force any specific dbms down anyone's throat; the old logger's dump is what it is - a postgres db dump including everything my old bot logged and ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: you know, there is some truth in that - the longer you do not write, the *harder* it is to restart, indeed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: enjoy!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's pretty much the issue with all the spinning and mucking about and failing to cut cleanly *one way or another*, forever on the fence - in the end instead of getting the best of both /multiple options, it's ~always the worst of them all
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if only everything was ready already from past week seeing how it supposedly was needed this week...then it would have been even the *perfect* moment to take a break, exactly to be refreshed for the new work
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: how's your plan for next week?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: anyways, billymg will have fun with it, apparently
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, no, I expect it's a php-trigger, whatever it's called ;
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but I never sunk the time to look properly into it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you know, given the ~reliably 1 in 4, I do suspect it's a sort of rate-limited so each time it triggers, it may end up sending a few more, indeed
(ossasepia) diana_coman: logically speaking it should be a trigger simply, I did expect it to work; the trouble is that it doesn't seem to always trigger, even normally, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and moreover, added stuff to it also sent pingbacks
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yeah, some of the others sent too
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so it actually needs a fix anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: though at the same time, the current pingback mechanism is "working" as in it sends about 1/4
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and the log article does send pingbacks, I didn't specifically bother to do it or anything
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, pingbacks work since basically this "manual inserting" is what sonofawitch does, after all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I suppose in a way the whole exercise actually turns around how much does one rely on php for admin basically.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: inserting it with draft flag is fine; the preview url creation is unclear to me currently - I never really looked into how that preview is done
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw, billymg I guess the main part re gui that I can see needing some proper porting would be the preview
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's pretty much where it goes, yes
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hence my above tree-branching - because it's more the sort of thing that needs not as much a not-cut but a re-work and that might be justified for the multi-author case but not that much for single author.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: there is that, basically risking a tree-branching on single vs multi-author support
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so yeah, it's really a huge improvement, quite of the usual sort obtained when ditching the gui and actually using command line properly.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: the way this went was that previous to making scripts, I'd ~avoid publishing images, pretty much; and tbh given how many images I had to publish with this graphics work, I think I would have made the scripts now if I didn't have them already
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: I don't care about that media library, no
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha, how would I know? ask her
(ossasepia) diana_coman: though hm, apparently she doesn't have that select working
(ossasepia) diana_coman: though as Nicole says, good enough by own standards, what!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: technically not used to post-post indeed but to the extent that they ended up anyway ~same result as now when post-post, it raises precisely the question as to what is the actual difference then?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: can still work for review anyway - here's what I'd have liked, here's what I did; conclusion - hm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: true, true; still: post-poning and post-planning; post-modernism!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what, do you have the plan ready so as to not-try-that? :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: as it's past half-month anyway - where are you at this month and what do you intend to get done the remaining ~2 weeks?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: does the plan work better as a post-script to the week "these are the things I'd have liked to have done"? lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly too old for that, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, who even cares to go through the exercise of what's next, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: confirmed, I can't care less about rtl; (iirc I might have even ripped some of it already during one of the walks through the code, as it is, huh)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes; and there's no need to publish-only-at-the-end; (fwiw I was never naturally "write and publish"; hell, not even naturally "talk")
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly; the thing is that the way it looks, you lock yourself into such a narrow thing that indeed, there's very, very little that can get out; honestly, it's not a problem in any possible way for me; I just fail to see how it's useful in the least for you, that's all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and as for everything else there is that part where it's *not possible* to tell upfront in *what way* it will turn out useful.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: uhm, why; publish it as "this is my shit attempt that does not work; but I explored this and that and learnt *why* it's not worth it"; listen, there's way more to learn from a published stuff than the "will grab this and it works"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure; what's that to do with publish/not publish though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I certainly tried it out and provided feedback; others too; you have it there and used it to support talks eg re tmsros or even why "not that way" ; so dunno - how "not worked"?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: that sounds like you expected some specific "worked" and it wasn't that so "did not work"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and what's the cost/downside to publishing them even signed with hucked-shit-key ? honestly, I never ever regretted documenting even shit attempts
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (I'm genuinely curious, nothing more)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you mean you do code hucked within the walls but not over the walls? lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: and out of curiosity, why do you ask if people want it? as above, publish it if you made it anyway and don't intend otherwise to keep it private, no?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: lolz; fwiw though, there are precious few people actually publishing whatever it is they are doing.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: I don't think anyone proposed anywhere they would not do whatever code development they wanted to do anyway, or anything of the sort.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: how's that balanced week/time going for you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lol, I didn't realise trb was alf-tech nao.
(ossasepia) diana_coman goes to read latest dramaz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1026044 - I do hope that pile of stuff glared back at you, jfw !
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: from my point of view js can go without any trouble; the only possibly-useful feature requiring it and that I'm aware of was editing the url of an article from the gui; from my pov the main question though would be - how separate the js is from everything else in the code so as not to take out/break something entirely different, really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sleep well
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so welcome back to the review then, indeed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: maybe I really should change the name thus, it will surely sound at least way more exciting
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the night-time review!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: it's been more of a not-try-the-idea-out but anyway, fine.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: seems we are pretty much on the same page there, then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: let me know if there was something you wanted to discuss today.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1026042 - indeed, this is absolutely true.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1026038 - absent the structure, the whole thing is purely of historical/academic interest, there is nothing to internalise as such.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: which ones made it and which didn't had nothing to do with how much time they had, either.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if anything, they were going there exactly because they were *not yet* independently wealthy - that was their chance to become though and some made it, some didn't.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... independently wealthy", what the fuck.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... is that the people involved still had lower-level problems to solve before they could meaningfully tackle the problems of "lordship", as simple as that; not a matter of "didn't have time, if only someone would have given them this or that or the other", no; ftr and exactly the reason why I even mentioned the original meaning of the term marquis/marquess - those were not going to the sticks essentially because "they were ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1026029 - I think the matter goes deeper than that; I'll note first that "wealth" is NOT the same thing as cash + assets + whatever else "has X" you come up with, just in case any log reader has such ideas (all history + literature provide *plenty* of examples as to how and why wealth is not essentially a "having" as much as a "being"); perhaps a clearer way to look at it ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: does that make it any clearer?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: apparently though the want was wanting or did that go.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: and further note that none was ever the case of a random/assigned "pick"; it was always the only way it can even make sense - X comes in and does *on own initiative* some useful Y, the competence is recognised and as part of this recognition they get what is basically *a shot at making money and fame and whatever else they want out of it*
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, finally realised why I couldn't find it, since I forgot about the mp_en_viaje handle, huh; here: http://trilema.com/2020/forum-logs-for-21-oct-2019/#2566637
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly trinque can find it since it was precisely the thread re deedbot
(ossasepia) diana_coman can't find that #t thread now, grrr
(ossasepia) diana_coman: build them up and/or expand them as much as you are able to
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter, the very term "marquis/marquess" comes from ...lord of the march/borders, basically go ye there at the very borders and ...build them up
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: if you ask "of what sort of thing" , the answer would be - of a fief; if you expect that all fiefs are the same, uhm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, quite often and esp in the beginning one does both, but the execute part always comes after the other and there was a huge lack of that other first and foremost.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there's a difference between executing vs coming up with the thing to execute basically; the lordship was precisely meant to recognize the ability and deed of the latter, not the former.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and myeah, I can see this "waiting patiently and all-willingly for the duties+resources" - that's how it does NOT work.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the core point missing in the above though and *precisely the opposite of "pulling this lever"* is exactly... making own thing that one therefore owns, how to even put this clearer; NOT "awaiting for the duties + resources" but building one's own stuff and therefore being the lord of it, ugh
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thing is - I distinctly recall it was in #t discussed even with examples from history so I'm not fully sure what can I add precisely to make that clear since apparently it was about as clear as mud, huh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ugh, no;
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but what can poor benefits do on their own - as history amply shows, not all that much, no.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter there is still benefit in a small number of choices really (and mainly for newcomers since they would not end up wasting time "how do I choose")
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: anyway, to get back to your earlier statement - I agree that there is still benefit in reducing the proliferation, sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: out of curiosity, how do you even go from "lord of that realm" to "lord of pulling this lever"?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly the most concrete rather than specific
(ossasepia) diana_coman: arguably of the whole set mine was even the most "specific" but if you look at just what eulora comprises....
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes, you might notice that it wasn't lord of mysql, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: yes; that doesn't translate in any sane way to "lord of database"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and the point is supported by ...which sovereign (most pointedly not "which lord")
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes, supported database is different indeed
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: no, not at all ; and tbh I have no idea where this idea of "lord of X " came from; yeah, as I said, I did read jurov's chan log so I saw trinque's line with it but I'm still scratching my head as to where it came from
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and yeah, I can see it; only atm there's no tmsr anymore and so the "both" is more like "as many and as diverse as each wants because ultimately they are anyway on their own"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: iirc the whole psql vs mysql has already had repeated discussions in #t too with the conclusion ~likely there will be both
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I really worked with people who were die-hard supporters of psql and moreover I used psql myself for years back in academia under the exact "it's more robust!! and faster!! and not-bolted on!!!!11"; having afterwards equally worked with people who found mysql the better of the 2, I can say that ...it's the people, not the tool (ie it depends on how well the operator knows psql/mysql).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha; why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly with irc-side only, the switch to whichever one prefers can be made relatively painlessly; not that I really tried it but normally it shouldn't be a huge pain (unless it's my optimism speaking again)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (well, assuming that python itself is not classed as full trouble anyway, which is debatable.)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ftr and in case it's not clear, there is an argument that can be made that the old logger has a salvageable part, namely strictly the irc-frontend, if one is so inclined; it's really the web side that brings in the whole shit and trouble.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: answered there - it's indeed as you summarised it in your last comment; and no worries, way better to discuss and clarify matters + now they are on record so handy to give the link to anyone else who might come in wondering "why"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it does sound...weird, indeed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you know, this thing with "3 for 2" and so on - it took me a lot of time to get my head around; why the fuck would I buy more than I wanted to buy in the first place; and why the hell does it even still end up more expensive than e.g. bigger packs at times (only yeah, had to calculate for 5 minutes to figure it exactly, what with the weird measurement system and all)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but well, go where the beautiful women are, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lol, at least that promises good growth!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, supposedly there used to be at least something for the "English rose" but what can I say there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: he could appreciate a lady too - to the extent that she showed a good eye for the horses!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: muskham was passionate about horses; by contrast, he was polite and respectful to ladies, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: cruciform: neah; galsworthy's forsyte saga /continuation (iirc it was on top of/after the end of the main saga as such); and you know, "this" is not very helpful to link on - put the name of the thing there, way more helpful.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha cruciform, that's the proper take on it, channeling last of the dandies muskham and all that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for easy follow up, the answer
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and answered the comment on the blog too as apparently there were quite a few things to clarify.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: note that I'm *not* introducing a new thing, quite on the contrary, I'm trimming away stuff.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and for the record, I don't think it's the right direction there this "why not struggle with that shit some more instead of making use of what is way more useful anyway"; yes, I made the mistake of using that; no, this doesn't mean that I *have to* keep throwing good time after the bad.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... with either breaking down everyone's links or otherwise keeping the dead channel's logs *in the way* instead of basically still where they were but correctly a matter of the past
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: the "why" in the shortest and calmest manner I can muster: because it's not needed; it's an additional headache without any benefits and by headache I mean - a whole pile of *additional* stuff to maintain (that flask thing surely was mentioned in the logs but note that it requires in turn a whole set of ???, look at it sometime); the lack of permanence ultimately because look at it, if I stop logging a channel, I'm stuck ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the raw log exporter is something on my list to add and it's *no different* from the old stuff which is itself a dump of raw data, so nothing to do with mpwp or anything else
(ossasepia) diana_coman shall be back tomorrow
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for reference, the relevant comment - if anyone else feels strongly that somehow logs are not articles, I'd be quite curious to hear the full argument - why are they not articles?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: the log-articles are in fact the very reason why I was asking a few days earlier if you knew by any chance how to make archive views unpaginated; I still haven't gotten around to dig into that but at some point I will; following up on your comment though - what do you see so wrong with logs that you'd ...quarantine them rather than treat them like any other text?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's not a separated matter like that and it doesn't help either, to separate matters into "work" and "fun"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the core "trick" may very well be to remember that you do find enjoyment in being productive, too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and let's review the situation on Monday, heh
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ha, congrats jfw !
(ossasepia) diana_coman: poor deedbot, what's with its connection today
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dunno, I quite like autumn and winter; after a while spring genuinely gets on my nerves, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (and yeah, I still miss a proper winter for instance and more specifically the contrast, indeed)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that sounds more like boredom with the lack of change, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (the 30+ is Celsius)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but the lesson in all this is simply that one can adapt a whole lot more than one might think at first - it just takes time.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter, after 10 years here, I noticed that I don't handle all that well anymore e.g. 30+ & humid in my home town although I never used to mind it *that much* before.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and the main reason for it as far as I can tell is that the temperatures here tend to be relatively *stable* so there's way less adaptation to handling quick changes, whether up or down
(ossasepia) diana_coman: comfortable to handle even, yes; and that comfortable can be quite genuine especially in this sort of physical matters - it's what the body has already adapted to, simply; as a concrete example, brits tend to genuinely dislike "hot weather" which is nowhere near "hot" by Italian standards
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so many likes are a matter of habit (and deeper than that - a matter of wider specific adaptation really) that it's not really all that hard to throw people off if you want to; part and parcel of having lived in many places though is getting to see just how much of what people claim otherwise as fixed and "the truth" and all that is in the end just a matter of context really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but yeah, it's fun to get those used to the Baltic/North Sea to some warmer waters ("it's like swimming in the soup!!") and the other way around ("it's like getting into the freezer!!!")
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lol, lava flows and frigid waters; at least it's clear you certainly care about temperature first and foremost, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: indeed; but you can care about one and not about the other.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: eh, you haven't known then southern Italians, lol; but no, it's more to do with water than with temperature.
(ossasepia) diana_coman cannot understand being next to water and *not* dip!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: sounds like a fun break at least so have fun!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: sounds good, no rush.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the logs for that #therealbitcoin seem to be so far at http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin only.
(therealbitcoin) diana_coman: oh, I had a vague recollection the foundation had something similar, so I thought it was carried over from there; anyways, I'll read the logs then and feel free to ping me in #o if anything.
(therealbitcoin) diana_coman: jurov: is this meant to be the chan where all matters foundation-related are to be discussed and publicly accessible? or just a chan for trb-interested people or what exactly? (I admit I don't understand the topic's "Here the mess is cooked and turd polished.")
(therealbitcoin) diana_coman: hello jurov, I'll read the logs
(ossasepia) diana_coman: on a more general note though I do kind of wonder at just what huge lack of interest in anything and of any sort seems to be the norm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: glad to hear that idea did catch your interest
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but in all fairness - former colonies still have it, too, heh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: that's precisely the point as far as I can tell - how can one give up a unique & special problem all of their own? (come to think of it, everyone loves their own most special problem - it's what makes them unique!!)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: maybe cruciform is actually more knowledgeable re horses in the UK at least.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and don't even have the trouble of left/right driver side!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so I guess kid has a point ("farm ~= machinery; animals - stinky!"), lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'd guess there'd be worse from a bureaucratic point of view with all the certificates required, at that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, here in the UK they are better re horses than on the continent, if anything; but yeah, it works along the lines of "cars will wait, problem?"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, for one thing crossing the channel is kind of ...sharing, lol; then in Europe itself, I'd say you could possibly go by bike nicely all the way to Eastern Europe (where roads are what they are even for cars, so what can one ask for anyway, otherwise, lol)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: come to think of it, maybe it's the best time to start riding a horse - perfect for social distancing and all that, will travel Europe on horseback!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: from what it looks at least here (masks on planes/airports & quarantine at the very least), I don't see any plane travel happening in my near future, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (can further add though perhaps that's just me - that I ~never met a fear that didn't only grow worse and bigger and nastier for *not* being confronted earlier; so kind of easier to kill earlier than later).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thing is that ~all fears are in the end both bigger/worse than the reality (because they are not constrained by much, unlike poor reality) and limits that increasingly fence you in (~those walls meeting one another in the distance where the trap... remember?)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: dunno though, I didn't get the impression that your lack of enthusiasm for getting to know people in a new town had anything to do with the "stasi danger"; does it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as for reasons...those are easiest to find when one looks for them, there's always plenty.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha, I can't imagine the thinking behind it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I suppose he could have; I doubt he did or will, because it takes some sort of buy in to swallow up all the rest with it, what can I say; (and possibly more for him than for you given that it was more uphill for him to get there in the first place, in all likelihood)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as one of them put it "it's a ridiculous amount of money" - and that's where he stopped with any thinking, even of the sort "how much of it is just ridiculous and how much of it is actual money"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: I'm sure it is and I'm not even surprised; fwiw I have refused to even answer to/go to the interview request from google; and yeah, those former uni/classmates that I know currently working in silicon valley ...what can I say, it showed even ~20 years ago, there's a reason for it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the sort of "career" that one loses for having "The Wrong Opinion"... such loss.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: not even hard to stumble on something in that vein given how it's a good chunk of the logs anyway; but yes, relevant.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's valid for everyone really; the only thing is the threshold otherwise, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's at least a way to make sure you are indeed moving, I guess; the where part can wait.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: o.O ; notice from professional gambling? I had no idea it was a regular employment sort of thing.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: cruciform: heh, congrats on finding the way out of it, then!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: otherwise yes, the "how to work with enemy" can apply to more than code, sure
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and possibly how it all starts anyway - on the strength of "I can maintain conceptual integrity if alone" (and possibly assorted further "savings" of time and talk etc), the man alone finds the great way to give in to his preference for... less chaos, I think it was :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, supposedly that's the advantage of working alone; but the point is to work with others of *same mind*, not with whatever others; so don't mix the two like that, as it's quite misleading in the best of cases.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (though I do resent the single-minded focus on rasterised graphics of both cs and cal3d, they are otherwise incomparably saner than ps, for sure)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there are 3 clear layers to that thing: cs is the graphics engine; cal3d is a (reasonably sane) library for animation and is used by cs; on top of those comes the insanity aka the client aka planeshift.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ftr, the engine CS started as the work of one guy; the Planeshift game is ...open source, "community effort" and all those "trims" ; that show!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: PS (planeshift) though is the client code really, hence client is the enemy.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: bypassing all of PS on top
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and it has been in this sense built with a sane view ie it allows ofc transformations ; you'll notice I even say there that yes, I ended up using CS's rotations perfectly fine
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's the thing, the CS is the engine and (while far from perfect), *that* bit is way, way saner than everything else
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: ah, the Planeshift guys did not write the engine
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well yes; I'm forgetful/soft enough to have therefore obtained a lot of practical experience and it always goes like that, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: quite transparently, at that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: they could have, ofc; but that's how it starts, you see? they got this "convention" in not in order to have a standard (which would be a useful thing even) but because of trying to avoid "calculating transformations is Maths and it's hard!!"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the short version of the whole "it's the enemy" re code would be that the code in question is built to *not permit* the sort of work you want to do with it; no matter in what /how small parts you look at it and no matter how it might seem at first.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter the part where the actual origin can't be known still boggles the mind, given that the models are given in...coordinates, wtf.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (in the example from eulora - no trouble to have characters on the ground if one has also the means to rotate them around their own axes; but setting them on ground because "too much trouble to do all the transformations" ends up with "can't rotate nor find out the origin " and so on)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's instead implemented exactly to support the *opposite* of what you are trying to do; hence "the enemy"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in principle, ~any convention re position of models can be fine; but *only* if implemented sanely and that's the catch there - it won't be implemented sanely because that's why the whole thing is the enemy in the first place
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in the sort of stupid-ball that those things are, ~any part no matter how small will bring in quickly a lot of further stupid, as soon as taken at face value otherwise; because that's how the whole insanity is built in the first place, kind of layer upon layer of stupid reinforcing one another and making anything else impossible
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the "requirement" seemed small and innocent since after all, what's the trouble with "characters on the ground", right? but as soon as used for anything really, it turned out to be (as it always turns out to be; if only I stop forgetting this, already) basically the first sip of a... spittoon.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: on the bright side though, even strong preferences can still be ...tamed let's say, with a lot of practice; possibly painful practice, might add, but it works.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: only this is the sort of thing where preferences shouldn't be allowed to rule the matter, really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (alternatively - it can get chaotic and it's even harder than zoom to fence in!)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: dunno, the very-outgoing-enjoying-meeting-random-people-jacob?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: more like you know you should do it but you'd really rather not do it, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1025745 - this sounds ...like that health insurance plan!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: while the paragraph above is specific to eulora's client and all that, hopefully it's clear enough as illustration of working with it vs working *it*.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: now I noticed I got a spurious / in my earlier link; should just be all the way to end of para, so here's the fixed link
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it surely can't hurt anything and after all, why not getting to know people; yeah, at first you don't know anyone in a new town, kind of a given but doesn't have to stay that way, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so use it, sure; but use it forcefully to do what you need, and without any regard to what it says/wants/expects/whatevers
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: not worth paying attention *to any of its requirements*
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you have current prospects at your location too or only those at dorion's ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: ^^
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: so maybe make a plan? lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: with practical example from my latest sad experience of wasting time and a lot of effort too - basically not worth paying attention to any of the rotten stuff, not even the slightest tiny bit (because it will *still* eat up a lot of time, no matter how tiny or innocent or benign bit it seems to start with).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so don't waste time trying to cater to whatever it wants/requires - set it on separate net if you have to, redundant instances or whatevers to give you the stability you want and otherwise don't waste time on it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the point there is that zoom (like python, like eulora's client etc) is the sort "use it like it was the enemy because it is "
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw, dorion at any rate, do you plan to take advantage of this covid-induced fashion for "do not meet, go online" and push the online sessions more widely or not/what else?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I kind of doubt you'll get stability with it regardless of whether you allow it to connect to anything and everything or not, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but yeah, from where I see it, it's pretty much a competition on perceived popularity, not on quality really, and it fits.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: eh, this "people noticed" is ~0; sure, they "noticed" and ... keep on using them, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: did zoom yield to running on those reasonably sealed pipes ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in fairness and looking at it from another angle - what *could* they buy that is not similar, after all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/05/03/ossasepia-logs-for-may-2020/#1025717 - lolz, though kind of following the usual pattern really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: cruciform: what happened to you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, it sounds like something worth writing up and publishing, once figured out, for sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: are you planning to use that zoom for lesson deliveries too?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: ahaha, is it worse than sorting out that health insurance or not just yet?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yeah, css + positioning + colours are something I can thoroughly test all my patience with.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the banner is script-generated, I should set a bunch and cycle but not today
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: thank you, that's very good to hear! (because I can futz with this sort of thing until next month and I will *still* not like it, lol)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as part of the most recent futzing about with the theme on my blog, the text area is now based on % of the screen so hopefully that's better for everything really, logs included; I've nuked also the theme's font-minimizing imposition
(ossasepia) diana_coman: cruciform: did you get lost in the relaxing one-day?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion: fwiw I can fully relate to single-focus on one thing and one thing only but with (a lot of) experience, I learnt also that it ~never works well like that over days/weeks/more and moreover it's not even as effective as it may seem; so yeah, practice a more balanced approach, it's worth it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: there is somewhere further whitelisting iirc based on blogroll; or so it was intended
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not sure they are even directly used afterwards
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: the wp-config values are used at install time to set those in the db iirc
(ossasepia) diana_coman: in _options iirc
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: hm, I think that the blog's domain is actually in the db, isn't it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, you wouldn't specifically notice it as such I suppose anyway unless really paying attention/getting surprised at some comments making it through without moderation perhaps.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: yes, that one in check_comment; as you can see, it subtracts links to trilema from total links before it looks if it's to go to modq or not
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: it's in wp-includes/comment.php
(ossasepia) diana_coman: now it will turn out everyone runs it with trilema.com
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ofc, one would change that to links to own site; or hm, so I supposed, lol
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: mpwp is set so comments with links get into the moderation queue *except* those with links to trilema.com
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I can set it directly for posts, there are some parameters to the posts query but I can't quite figure out how to set it only for archives
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: how to set it so it does not paginate archive contents, for any archive
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: do you know by any chance where is the page/nopage set for the archives? not sure why is this even so different than for the rest but I can't seem to properly & fully figure it out atm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: cool then; is there in any of those (im)pending vpatches the fixing of the trilema-specific links-immunity? because I noticed that in the main trunk it's set to trilema.com and nowhere even mentioned, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: btw, since I did one round of digging through the whole pile of mpwp yet again - by now it's better I'd say to remove that "selection-magic" thing given that it's broken
(ossasepia) diana_coman: billymg: your v-tree at http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ stops at mp-wp_comments_filtering.vpatch while my local tree has also mp-wp_add-embedded-vpatch-formatting.vpatch ; as a result, now I'm confused as to what even is the full current trunk, let alone whatever modifications I might have deployed otherwise.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: spyked: I didn't look but I'd have expected that field to be added automatically on insert really; possibly some of the php normally does that; anyways, I'll probably find out soon enough indeed.