Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-08 | 2015-07-10 → ↓
Vexual: so if we have sealevel sattelites that don't move...
BingoBoingo: Fuck, in Gladiator (2000) there are plain tire tracks on the cravel roads
Vexual: !g filipino black eyed peas
Vexual: ;;g filipino
gribble: Error: "g" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today << Please point me to 50 US acres that are truly abadon. No "owner" no renter, no Sheriff.
Vexual: you mean like a cinemagraphical error?
BingoBoingo: Especially the last point because sheriff usually enforces abadon remaining verboten
BingoBoingo: Vexual: More like lazy cinema
Vexual: the eyes have it
decimation: BingoBoingo: there's plenty of 'wasteland' out west
decimation: but certainly has sheriff
BingoBoingo: WHich is problem. Even if you shoot sheriff, there exists deputy
funkenstein_: sheriff shows up sometime after you put something valuable there
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Nah, they don't want hippies, chase away merely warm bodies
funkenstein_ recalls being woken "can't sleep here" on various travels
BingoBoingo: Anecdotally Urban US squats safer than rural US squats
funkenstein_: read my mind; i was just going to ask about when will squat culture arise
BingoBoingo: Squat conture arised in USia 60 years ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00057357 = 3.212 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: somehow it appears stronger in continental europe
funkenstein_: could also be who i was rolling with at the time
funkenstein_: 1950s eh?
BingoBoingo: Continental Europe had a head start
BingoBoingo: See Christiantown
decimation: I'm watching a youtube of some uk guy who decided to hop freight trains in canada
assbot: Brave Dave's Canadian Catch Out - Freight Train Hopping In Canada - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MgHJF2 )
decimation: he decides to be a hobo for fun I guess
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.00057362 = 28.2795 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5589 @ 0.00057586 = 3.2185 BTC [+]
assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1eI4MO8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00057586 = 2.8793 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00057778 = 16.1282 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3136 @ 0.00057877 = 1.815 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00056751 = 12.2015 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22641 @ 0.00056664 = 12.8293 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00056072 = 3.0279 BTC [-] {2}
shinohai: https://np.reddit.com/user/Bitcoin_SS <<< rofl this is the funniest shit evah
assbot: overview for Bitcoin_SS ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqIyLv )
punkman: not bad
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:59:04; asciilifeform: and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in
jurov: shiffing, yes.
jurov: *sniffing
jurov: but actively intercepting and replacing individual packets is much more complicated effort
jurov: so far only china managed that with any degree of success
BingoBoingo: shinohai: If you must link to reddit no np.reddit links, for they are a trap to preserve their platform
jurov: and it needs so much manpower that someone from "terrorist-packets-on-backbone-diddling-dept." would already spill the beans
shinohai: I fergotI forgot i was laughing so hard BingoBoingo
shinohai: It is EXACTLY like them
jurov: say, let's put time.windows.com or google's addy among there and make the occassional packet look like systemd or windows emit
jurov: what is usg to do? risk diddling time on throngs of linux/windows machines?
jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?
jurov: or make buth m$/google move the servers to different IPs? no way that wouldn't get noticed, actually would be useful signal for us
punkman: BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2623&pr=1 << is that part of a series or one-off?
assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqLsQ9 )
BingoBoingo: punkman: Both?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2013 @ 0.00056826 = 1.1439 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056826 = 8.5807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13143 @ 0.00056455 = 7.4199 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Silvio Berlusconi sentenced to 3 years for bribing Italian senator | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqY7mJ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11917 @ 0.00055623 = 6.6286 BTC [-]
punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40689 @ 0.00056581 = 23.0222 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4917 @ 0.00055282 = 2.7182 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.0005789 = 2.5761 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9949 @ 0.00055098 = 5.4817 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48629 @ 0.00054501 = 26.5033 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Dot-dash-diss: The gentleman hacker's 1903 lulz - tech - 27 December 2011 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaI79R )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055023 = 8.1709 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00054715 = 3.2282 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055492 = 11.2649 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu On Qntra you said, "This is a resource war and you people are poor." Well some poor redditard was venting this morning and in his rage said, "I wish I had the money to...do xyz". Ironic how denial turns to anger, almost like stages of grief.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."
shinohai: rofl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00056266 = 4.5013 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: yeah because people are gonna stay on your stupid fork of course
shinohai: np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3cnw86/bitcoiners_throws_temper_tantrum_as_miners_fail/
kakobrekla: 1 hour 52 minutes ago974.7 kB ?
jurov: ;;bc,tslb
gribble: Error: "bc,tslb" is not a valid command.
jurov: ;;tslb
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83123 @ 0.00054175 = 45.0319 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12668 @ 0.00054166 = 6.8617 BTC [-]
assbot: Safello now buys @ 4611 SEK and sells at 2388 SEK per Bitcoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1NR5VOT )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4206 @ 0.00054166 = 2.2782 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << 'quantuminsert' and 'ferretcannon', just off the top of my head (from the snowden papers)
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?
asciilifeform: iirc there were other 'postbox names' in there, amounting to the same idea
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194795 << feed diddled ntp to ~known public bitcoin nodes~.
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:50:06; jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?
asciilifeform: it won't happen every day, naturally. just when 'national s333k000r1ty' requires a stinkbomb dropped on the network - to keep a certain tx from getting relayed, say
jurov: how do you know ntp is from the bitcoin node and not from other machine on the same network?
asciilifeform: naturally, you don't
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7gBU )
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 03:34:05; mircea_popescu: In addition, anti-fascism was never to have as cheap as today. Previously, he could cost you your life, today it costs no more than lip service among peers - and heard to this, the exclusive circle of the upright, decent, brave. The fighters against law form the peerage of enlightened society. Or even a shot polemical: Here is an indulgence trade takes place; the moral superiority can be acquired sim
asciilifeform: i can envision other scenarios
jurov: so, instruct chumps "scream if you notice weird time"
asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers
decimation: asciilifeform: read the description of room 641a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
assbot: Room 641A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7okT )
asciilifeform: jurov: idea is that no one will 'notice weird time', nodes will just silently drift off the network
decimation: reportedly it was a passive beam splitter
decimation: how you gonna delay packets with that
asciilifeform: decimation: i can't comment on what's in the other '641a's.
asciilifeform: or for that matter, in the original
asciilifeform: (today, that is)
jurov: asciilifeform: and my idea is that pogos will be together with other computers behind the NAT
jurov: and these other computers can server as canary, users *do* notice time off by hour
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00054579 = 13.0171 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: jurov: gotta understand, my allergy to ntp is more of a 'reason from causes, not from purposes'-theorem application
asciilifeform: than dread of a specific boojum
jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?
asciilifeform: i believe that it is wrong for a large network of bitcoin nodes to depend on a usg institution.
asciilifeform: i am only dreaming up specifics because asked to
asciilifeform: since everybody seems to insist on doing mental gymnastics to come to peace with using ntp
jurov: and i keep telling you they already do cuz internet *is* usg institution
asciilifeform: once 'gossip' is running, the only thing enemy will be able to do is pull plugs
jurov: jam tomorrow
asciilifeform: so in that sense it is 'usg institution' in exactly the way my house, and my earthly carcass, are
asciilifeform: jurov: the particular example, 'gossip', ~is~ jam tomorrow, yes. but it is possible to run encrypted tunnels of various sorts even today.
asciilifeform: enemy is stuck pulling plugs.
asciilifeform: ntp, on other hand, is a pants-down unauthenticated plaintext (for reasons explained previously, this cannot really be helped)
jurov: we're stuck with ntp since you rejected everything other short of bitcoin reimplementation
jurov: if we agree to ship with pogos also 100 of authed ntp servers, I'm all for it
asciilifeform: jurov: probably
jurov: (provide, i mean)
asciilifeform: gotta think of a way to sanity-check it
jurov: just that in your scenario of hostile isp and everything, they will be yet more easy to block than time.windows.com
asciilifeform: hence sanity-check rather than reliance
jurov: aha
asciilifeform: i've also thought about personally retrofitting the pogos with the crystals
asciilifeform: (it also needs a capacitor or li battery on the power input to the rtc)
asciilifeform: could probably do several hundred in a weekend, if they were sent to me disassembled
asciilifeform: i also learned last night that chinese rtc modules, complete with battery, are about fifty cents in quantity
asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo
asciilifeform: these clocks would still have to be ~set~, but it can be done en masse, once.
decimation: it could be altuh
decimation: sorry tmux died
asciilifeform: incidentally, if anybody feels up to falling on this grenade with me, please speak up
decimation: asciilifeform: are there specs for the rtc modules? specifically thermal stability?
asciilifeform: decimation: not afaik. probably best to assume the worst.
asciilifeform: but overall i'm much less allergic to the idea of letting ntp adjust a running clock by a percent now and then
asciilifeform: than straight intravenous injection from ntp into a machine with no clock to speak of
lobbes: heh, we need a b-a factory.
asciilifeform: lobbes: we don't even have a b-a restaurant yet.
kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.
kakobrekla: or the need for one. can service others in yurop i guess.
williamdunne: Cheap Romanian labour for #b-a factory?
assbot: Woman staged 'rape' scene with knife, vodka, called 9-1-1, police say - LancasterOnline: Local News ... ( http://bit.ly/1fqZ83K )
punkman: "However, a Fitbit device Risley was wearing told a different story, the affidavit shows. The device, which monitors a person’s activity and sleep, showed Risley was awake and walking around at the time she claimed she was sleeping."
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yeawell...
asciilifeform: punkman: lulziez!
asciilifeform: why is anyone using that thing again...?
mircea_popescu: because bitcoin uses it
asciilifeform: not the cert crud
mircea_popescu: people don't know. "openssl" right ?
mircea_popescu: "During certificate verification, OpenSSL (starting from version 1.0.1n and 1.0.2b) will attempt to find an alternative certificate chain if the first attempt to build such a chain fails. An error in the implementation of this logic can mean that an attacker could cause certain checks on untrusted certificates to be bypassed, such as the CA flag, enabling them to use a valid leaf certificate to act as a CA and "issue"
mircea_popescu: an invalid certificate."
asciilifeform: (though it's been a while since i looked at the turdation's tree - perhaps they do ?)
mircea_popescu: and yet, "we do not feel compelled to denounce the person who added this hole in our codebase, and call for a boycott from everyone on it against their sorry ass. because, fundamentally... it's us."
asciilifeform: who else.
asciilifeform: not martians, no.
mircea_popescu: "As per our previous announcements and our Release Strategy (https://www.openssl.org/about/releasestrat.html), support for OpenSSL versions 1.0.0 and 0.9.8 will cease on 31st December 2015. No security updates for these releases will be provided after that date. Users of these releases are advised to upgrade."
mircea_popescu: non sequitur prize of the year.
mircea_popescu: "we will stop deliberately adding holes to these versions aftyer this date, and you are please asked to upgrade because we won't be sending patches a quarter afterwards, either"
mircea_popescu: DO NOT EVER FUCKING UPGRADE ANYTHING.
mircea_popescu: that way, you won't need "security patches" in the first place.
asciilifeform: incidentally, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191327 << this thread fell through the cracks, i think
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 17:37:15; trinque: https://security.gentoo.org/glsa/201507-04
asciilifeform: relates.
mircea_popescu: you may be the only one here seriously following gentoo.
asciilifeform: it isn't a gentoo-specific thing
asciilifeform: unfortunately
asciilifeform: it is in ~EVERYTHING THAT USES UNICODE~
asciilifeform: more or less.
mircea_popescu: guess that wasn't apparent.
asciilifeform: ^ proof of concept
asciilifeform: or wait, no
asciilifeform: just the raw animal
mircea_popescu: Workaround There is no known workaround at this time.
mircea_popescu: yes there ios a known workaround. has been known since 1985. FUCK UNICODE.
shinohai: whelp I hve a pogo now. A blank canvas, if you will.
mircea_popescu: shinohai wd. follow danielpbarron's instructions
shinohai graciously thanks mats again ...
mircea_popescu: !rated mats
assbot: You rated user mats on 08-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1be7db6ba38c2aa6
assbot: So who's running the Courts circus ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr25Bn )
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mats.2:69e8f3590c3e3179d8606f89cade86164889b7457861391f4944b9ffca387e6d
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 2 with note: http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.
mircea_popescu: !rated lobbes
assbot: You rated user lobbes on 06-Feb-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Well... he did teach himself how to view a directory....
mircea_popescu: !rate lobbes 2 #eulora logs bot
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8d485e72deea6e0b
shinohai: I am sorry to report that I have not yet received an email from trilema with a deposit addy
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.lobbes.2:81f948807d830af41e59c4726108dd6ddae1f995b52730f156735b2897c1a68b
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for lobbes from 1 to 2 with note: #eulora logs bot
mircea_popescu: shinohai spam filters ?
mircea_popescu: !rated danielpbarron
assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 29-Jul-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Logician in charge of logistics..
shinohai: I dunno. I get the dev mailing list.
shinohai: but not trilema, and nothing in spam folder so i dunno :/
shinohai: I could send to deedbot or something?
mircea_popescu: lemme send you an email now and we see. addy ?
mircea_popescu: (pm if you want)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00055059 = 1.2113 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: whassat punkman ?
mircea_popescu: the dram thing ?
punkman: javascript corrupting memory
assbot: Project Zero: Exploiting the DRAM rowhammer bug to gain kernel privileges ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr43lp )
mircea_popescu: for background
asciilifeform remembers very well
shinohai: Not seeing my drive :/
asciilifeform: shinohai: what are you running ?
shinohai: Busybox on pogo mount: mounting /dev/sda1 on /tmp/usb failed: Invalid argument
asciilifeform: what's on the drive ?
shinohai: nothing
asciilifeform: of course it won't mount
asciilifeform: gotta partition it
punkman: the "spam" is now up to 0.00034513 fee
shinohai checks
shinohai: Fer crissakes I forgot to partition fr.
shinohai: But it must wait until sfter lunch.
shinohai: *after
mircea_popescu: shinohai got email ?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00034513 * 270
gribble: 0.0931851
mircea_popescu: 10 cents, not bad.
shinohai: got email
asciilifeform: 'brother can you spare a dime'
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
decimation: asciilifeform: www.ebay.com/itm/INBOARD-RTC-DS3232-Real-Time-Clock-and-Temperature-Sensor-I2C-BUS-PIC-AVR-ARM-/120841157983 < hi-spec part
decimation: unlike alot of the other rtcs, the crystal is on-chip and temp compensated
mircea_popescu: that's a spiffy clock.
decimation: my reading of the spec sheet is that combined aging and temperature stability (assuming 0-40C) would be about 8.5 ppm
decimation: which means about 4.5 minutes per year
decimation: for 10 years
mircea_popescu: yeah it's good for a decade, since we have ~2 hours to spare
decimation: likely, the cr1203 battery wouldn't last that log
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised. those damned things... i've had one for a decade.
asciilifeform: i have a 15 yr-old one that's still going
asciilifeform: and i've had ones die after <5
decimation: but as you can see it isn't cheap, the chip is about $9 in single quantity and about $4 in units of 1000
asciilifeform: 'your mileage may vary'
mircea_popescu: yeah. like hdds : either dead in six months or good forever.
mircea_popescu: like humans, actually. either die as a youthful ape, or else get cancer, or else... age 150
asciilifeform: decimation: the thing you linked to costs more than pogo...
decimation: I know :(
asciilifeform: may as well suggest atomic
shinohai: I got a really old SATA with debian wheezy on it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's still a very good clock by the looks of it.
decimation: unfortunately the really cheap ($1) rtcs available do not come with specs, it would be interesting to know what they are
asciilifeform: probably better than most pc mobos
decimation: yes, it certainly is
mircea_popescu: definitely.
decimation: also I'm not sure if pogo has i2c bus
mircea_popescu: iirc - no.
asciilifeform: l0l i think ~it~ is on my mobo
asciilifeform: the very same
mircea_popescu: maybe on the better ones
asciilifeform: highest end amd mobo of ~8 yrs ago
decimation: asciilifeform: you can configure ntp to ignore the network and use RTC
mircea_popescu: i don't expect technologee changed these much since the 90s
asciilifeform: decimation: what good does that do ?
decimation: you set rtc, usg doesn't set your clock?
asciilifeform: then why ntp
mircea_popescu: he doesn't want to set anything
decimation: to discipline the kernel timebase
mircea_popescu: he just wants things to do shit!
decimation: likely the rtc has a more stable clock than the 2ghz clock that runs your cpu
asciilifeform: decimation: and can't do this without a proggy that opens sockets ?
asciilifeform: why the fuck not ?
mircea_popescu: moar unpnp ? :D
decimation: well, the advantage that ntp brings is the long-term PLL that gently corrects
decimation: but you could periodically bang the clock
asciilifeform: decimation: i'd have bitcoind snarf time straight from the rtc chip
asciilifeform: why the ceremonies.
decimation: in the case of bitcoind that would work
decimation: for other applications moving the clock around might make them sad
asciilifeform: there are no other proggies on pogo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ready for the will/intelligence discussion ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fire away
decimation back to mines
mircea_popescu: me ? you're the one to fire. you proposed pink shapeless.
mircea_popescu: o incidentally. that article ^ prolly interests you
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, the impression i get is that you think 'will' is a scalar
asciilifeform: will is not a scalar. perelman has will, mircea_popescu has will, i have will, and napoleon had will, and comparing magnitudes alone is rank nonsense
mircea_popescu: but that's not where the problem lies. the problem lies at the spot where you propose there exists an "intelligence" that nevertheless does not have control of the processor.
mircea_popescu: if one is purportedly intelligent, how is it then that his brain does not work intelligently ?
asciilifeform: intelligence is 'car,' will is 'driver'
mircea_popescu: then intelligence is no sort of intelligence at all.
mircea_popescu: i dub it "derp" and rename your will intelligence.
asciilifeform: driver sans car sits and makes 'vroom, vroom' noises; car without driver - sits, rusts.
mircea_popescu: for this is the definition of intellectual faculty : the driver.
mircea_popescu: everything else, muscle power.
mircea_popescu: and yes, redditards are not necessarily unintelligent in the sense of derp.
mircea_popescu: they're actually very derpy.
mircea_popescu: problem is they're dumb as rocks, is all.
asciilifeform: other thing is that the meat brain is not a von neumann machine, and has specific circuits for certain problems. it is possible to walk around with those damaged and others - functional
mircea_popescu: so is a guy paralised on half his body half an athlete ?
asciilifeform: if he's an arm wrestling champ !
asciilifeform: and has his working arm.
mircea_popescu: kinda why arm wrestling is not athletics :)
mircea_popescu: in any case, weren't you bravely accusing ME of viewing things as scalars ?
mircea_popescu: how come they're now divisible with 2.
funkenstein_: there is a special space in the hilbert space of stupidity for those who think intelligence can be well described with a scalar
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my contention was that you describe will as a spectrum, perhaps between 'spineless clerk' and 'napoleon'
mircea_popescu: i dun think i do.
mircea_popescu: there is an ennumerable list of people by their intelligence. this usually reduces to sorting them by score
asciilifeform: whereas i contend that it is possible to be 'napoleon' with theorems and 'spineless piece of shit' with girlz
mircea_popescu: and that score is how much money they have.
asciilifeform: or vice-versa
mircea_popescu: only if one WANTS TO
funkenstein_: i have found fiat wealth correlates linearly with a broad integral of stupidity
asciilifeform: well that'd be a kind of perverse but technically correct definition of 'will'
mircea_popescu: "oh it can be the case i can lift rocks but not railroad metal"
asciilifeform: how strong is your 'want muscle'
asciilifeform: it's more of a 'i can lift rocks but not porcupines'
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as they both exist, they both exist. inasmuch as the one you're good at doesn't exist, you're basically wanking.
asciilifeform confused
mircea_popescu: the curse of existence is that it is approachable. just like a tool has its uses, irrespective of a maker's intention.
mircea_popescu: everything that is, is. which has some effects.
asciilifeform: which is the item mircea_popescu is describing as not existing? and which - not ?
mircea_popescu: i am doing no such thing.
mircea_popescu: i am merely pointing out that if both things you discuss exist, then both necessarily, by definition of existence, are approachable.
mircea_popescu: this is traditonally pointed out to the shy young male as "you know, even the lady of your heart farts"
mircea_popescu: or whatever, your hero also bleeds, there's a lengthy cultural history of this idealisation problem.
asciilifeform: proof of twin-primes conjecture is also 'approachable' by this token
asciilifeform: in that it is sitting 'there' to be dug up
mircea_popescu: only if it exists :)
mircea_popescu: which atm we do not know.
asciilifeform: it is possible that it does not exist
mircea_popescu: but if it does exist, then yes, it will necessarily be found eventually.
asciilifeform: better example - pluto
asciilifeform: we know where it sits
asciilifeform: come, get.
mircea_popescu: get what ?
asciilifeform: a piece of pluto.
mircea_popescu: so you are saying mining pluto is an impossibility.
mircea_popescu: and why not ceres ? she's just as big!
mircea_popescu: nobody ever thinks of ceres.
asciilifeform: not impossible, but not strictly a matter of 'wanting to' either
mircea_popescu: and if it were the case the commercial value of piece of pluto ten times exceeded the commercial cost of sending miner ?
mircea_popescu: it'd be mined next week.
mircea_popescu: so no, we currently do not wish to, is all.
asciilifeform: this is logical, but for some reason this scenario did not play out re: bitcoin asics
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
asciilifeform: (afaik, there are still no true asics!)
mircea_popescu: too low margins
mircea_popescu: do the math, sometime. a miner earns 0.2% or some shit.
asciilifeform: partly this is on account of using 'hardcopy fpga'
mircea_popescu: currently foundries are working on .9%
asciilifeform: which is 100% of what is presently sold as 'btcasic'
mircea_popescu: of course, sold != deployed, but the error isn't great.
asciilifeform: partly this is on account of the derpitude of keeping them all in a warehouse, rather than having chumps pay for power
asciilifeform: (as discussed in 2013 here)
mircea_popescu: they are kept in warehouse for same reasdon you want untouched pogo
asciilifeform: but that 0.2% is made of a long list of bad decisions
mircea_popescu: people have this fixed idea that getting others involved is the worst play.
mircea_popescu: it isn't the worst play, but hard to get the notion through.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. chief among them, a poor handling of cooperation.
asciilifeform: think of what just one backroom cocksucking deal with a major microcontroller maker to include hidden miner would have been worth.
mircea_popescu: ~nothing much
asciilifeform: what's the logic here?
mircea_popescu: hard to explain, but i will give the anecdotic.
mircea_popescu: i am not unaware of this possibility, yet i apparently discounted it, preferring a divergent approach. maybe i'm just that dumb.
asciilifeform: (that the hidden boojum would not stay hidden, is a no-brainer. idea would be to exploit the first-mover advantage, naturally)
mircea_popescu: shitty thing to build a life of.
mircea_popescu: you want last-mover advantage. if you can get it.
asciilifeform: life of miner is a life of a soldier, disposable, as mircea_popescu reminded us last night
mircea_popescu: what else has first mover advantage ? making a bitcoin foundation ?
mircea_popescu: they lost.
asciilifeform: there is a whole array of strange things that miner builders do, which puzzle me greatly
mircea_popescu: o, wait, that schmucky chick. what was it, chamber of buttsex ?
asciilifeform: i'll name just one (because i am not in the business of handing out free advice to derpatronicists) -
asciilifeform: why the fuck does 'as much has as possible' have to be packed in one die ?
asciilifeform: creates the heat nightmare
mircea_popescu: !up cosmo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're just going through the motions. they don't really know what they're doing, nobodyu sat dowqn and thought things through.
asciilifeform: and it isn't like ten dies would take up unpalatable floor space
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it
mircea_popescu: the packing thing is a result of the consumer electronics market
mircea_popescu: they don't understand that if you sell for yourself, and not to put in a desktop, you have diff engineering constraints
asciilifeform: so what i'm saying is, pluto is sitting there, made of priceless unobtainium, and schmucks are schmucking around
mircea_popescu: actually more floor space = better for a short interval at the place they're now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and at some point, america teemed with fucktarded savages and nobody came to kill the males and rape the females.
mircea_popescu: sure, nobody did.
mircea_popescu: for... a little bit.
mircea_popescu: and ... nobody will ever again.
mircea_popescu: for... hm. for EVER AND EVER THIS TIME!!11
asciilifeform: 8k years was 'a little bit' ?
asciilifeform: i suppose - geologically...
mircea_popescu: iirc the vikings did a little recuntissance
asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)
asciilifeform: back to the miners, i say that if money were the handy iq test mircea_popescu suggests it is, this kind of situation would be quite impossible.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ << that's basically the ideology of butthurt.
mircea_popescu: it is drastically unwise to imagine a certificate of intelligence as a sort of consolation prize.
funkenstein_: the point at which Americas so teemed began in 1600 or so
mircea_popescu: that's what late empire matrons tell their effette offspring that just lost at the races to the hearty barbarians : "don
mircea_popescu: 't woprry honey, they're stupid"
mircea_popescu: they're not so stupid, and the measure of their superior intelligence is to be found in the joyous cries of the noble roman's girlfriend.
funkenstein_: it's not a question of "don't worry" .. actually, we should be worried
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. improbable, which all reality ever is.
mircea_popescu: not impossible, nor long of this world.
asciilifeform: there very much ~is~ such a thing as 'stupid and effective'
asciilifeform: such as the bacteria that eventually eat everybody's girlfriend
mircea_popescu: like how would that be ?
asciilifeform: (along with anyone else)
mircea_popescu: is gcd stupid but effective ?
funkenstein_: the reason wealth is often correlated with dumb is probably similar to why gps ownership is correlated with poor navigation skills
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ such as in sattelites and missiles ?
mircea_popescu: i propose that gcd is one of the few smart things we know.
mircea_popescu: it is smart enough to be the END of a class.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja know that paul erdos had a story about these ?
asciilifeform: this class.
asciilifeform: he liked to say that god had a book, containing the best possible proof of each theorem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00054405 = 5.0053 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: highest compliment paul e. could give a colleague was to say 'this is from The Book'
mircea_popescu: ahaha not bad.
asciilifeform: hence 'end of a class'
mircea_popescu: makes sense, dunnit ? even without being jewish.
asciilifeform: it is actually a very rare thing
asciilifeform: (being able to prove that you can't do better runtime than particular algo, say)
asciilifeform: however, there are still interesting boojums:
funkenstein_: see e.g. the god algorithm for cube solving
asciilifeform: romans could very well have 'proved' that their arithmetic is 'optimal'
asciilifeform: while being entirely wrong by our lights
mircea_popescu: even gods bite it eventually.
asciilifeform: because 'notation is worth 80 iq'
mircea_popescu: kinda why i do not actually regret golden antiquity.
mircea_popescu: had a good run, but it did run its course.
mircea_popescu: and so it came to pass zeus eventually ran out of book.
asciilifeform: everybody eventually runs out of book.
mircea_popescu: for my curiosity, how'd such a roman proof look like ?
mircea_popescu: i don't readily see it.
mircea_popescu: (but this is perhaps the most obscure field of all scholarship - constructive cultural antrhopology, which is to say : construct FUTURE development of science on the basis and with the methods available in X context.
mircea_popescu: a superlative form of hermeneutics if you wish. certainly decent training exercise for the more advanced students.
asciilifeform: this is normally where 'alt history' storytellers fail, yes
asciilifeform: 'show me nazi internet' (mr mold)
mircea_popescu: even the most cursory effort to consider the matter sunks people like orlov.
mircea_popescu: it should be standard class in disinfo ministry, but hey. they're also saving these days.
asciilifeform: sometimes the 'construct future with past' thing gets taken up and run ragged, though. as in the case of 'square the circle with ruler and compass' problem that drove folks batshit until 19th c even.
asciilifeform: and there are still legions of crackpots trying to prove ftl with what they studied in school.
mircea_popescu: where is that discussion with cads
asciilifeform: a maths prof informed me that until recently, it was customary to answer their letters. but not any more.
mircea_popescu: !s riemann
assbot: 1 results for 'riemann' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=riemann
assbot: Squares do Morals. A Porno. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Toj2L7 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, all kinds of folks spent whole lives 'lala i can't hear you' to cantor's diagonal.
asciilifeform: probably even now
asciilifeform: something about it pisses off certain types
mircea_popescu: anyway, re nazi internet : minitel
asciilifeform: probably not too far off!
asciilifeform: (twist: rewrite orwell's '1984' where 'minilove' is actually a dour and heavily bureaucratized network of official brothels.)
mircea_popescu: not bad idea.
mircea_popescu: like they have in indonesia / poor asia generally and it fascinated tarantino
mircea_popescu: ever seen the sexploitations in question ? women on cots, 500 to a hall, separated by hanging sheets ?
asciilifeform: didn't see alive, no. but who hasn't seen photos.
asciilifeform: sorta like an old military hospital
mircea_popescu visited one such thing, in costa rica. it is the closest i ever got to a medieval hospital.
asciilifeform: obvious mental association
mircea_popescu: sexploitation = a movie
asciilifeform: haven't seen, no
asciilifeform adds to list
assbot: Women In Cages on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmuYQ9 )
asciilifeform: 'Anyway, it is my considered opinion (along with, I wager, most everyone else's) that positively the ONLY way that's getting show to be inconsistent is by some intoxicated kids during having sex or somesuch. Everything else was tried to death.' (from mircea_popescu's www) <<<< 'ftl drive will be discovered by an ee student on the verge of flunking, designing stero amps.' (al schwartz)
asciilifeform: incidentally, for anyone who missed, gabriel_laddel found that schwartz is not only alive but cranking out nonstop commentary re: everything, largely on some godforsaken redditron
asciilifeform: might be time to attempt persuading him to visit, again.
assbot: High Quality IIC Module Real Time Clock Memory Module for Arduino DS3231 AT24C32 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmwFwO )
asciilifeform: ~88 cent
asciilifeform: (plus battery)
asciilifeform: what i wonder is where these are typically used.
asciilifeform: they are produced, and apparently sold, in vast quantities.
asciilifeform: clearly ~somebody~ isn't eager to use ntp for everything.
asciilifeform: where do these little modules go? toasters? time bombs in afghan ?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah DS3231 is the older version of the same chip that doesn't have any onboard sram
decimation: would work fine
decimation: I think the 3231 is end of life, probably trying to ditch stock
decimation: asciilifeform: I think at least one use is utility meters
decimation: any case where you have a cheap sensor that you 'launch'
asciilifeform: sram could be useful, to keep 'last seeds' in or whatnot. but entirely luxury.
decimation: oh they also use them in gps receivers
decimation: for 'cold start'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9920 @ 0.00054166 = 5.3733 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: yeah the ds3231 has the same spec for time performance
asciilifeform: and costs 18x less, l0l
asciilifeform: (than earlier link)
decimation: someone must be ditching stock
asciilifeform: like pogo..
decimation: 'cause a 3231 costs like $4.50 from digikey in qty 1000
asciilifeform: ^ not including pcb, battery holder, etc
decimation: no xtal is in chip
asciilifeform: even so.
decimation: but yeah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
mircea_popescu: yeah somebody with still a reddit acct plox ask scwhartz to come over.
asciilifeform: it wasn't reddit
asciilifeform digs in log
mircea_popescu: fucking discus. what the fuck is wrong with that guy.
mircea_popescu: i mean of all the places... no wonder it took forever to find him.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's a compulsive ant-stomper. went where the enviro-whiners congregate
asciilifeform: to apply his futile flamethrower
asciilifeform: every 15 min. or so, all day...
asciilifeform: i guess his isp finally stopped carrying usenet..
mircea_popescu: he should be here, i'm sick of being the most lines.
asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines
asciilifeform: somebody oughta send him a link with b-a search string of his name, or whatnot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00054405 = 4.842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: or the discussion of the apparatus
asciilifeform: definitely it.
asciilifeform: or gabriel_laddel going over his dozen favourite al essays
asciilifeform: or this thread!
asciilifeform: ferfuxxsake.
asciilifeform: come visit us, uncle al! we'll dine on adelberger's roasted ballsack and wash it down with lagavulin !
assbot: The Act of Killing - Official Trailer (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboL4C )
asciilifeform: and while you're here, bring penny and anybody else still alive from mensa.talk.misc
funkenstein_: i think i saw him on sci.physics.relativity a decade ago
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 youtube stopped working for me with some update or other.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: he was all over sci.* a decade+ ago
asciilifeform: 1990-2004 or so
asciilifeform: no new essays for some years though
asciilifeform recalls the ordeal of convincing mircea_popescu that al schwartz isn't a 'timecube'
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I watched that last week.
ag3nt_zer0: wtf sorry
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not even convinced yet. just, not particularly convinced of the contrapositive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00054499 = 3.1882 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 vimeo never worked. for some reason html5 standards are too hard for these schmucks
mircea_popescu: (that reason being, obviously, that they can't get to play their inept advertising with it)
asciilifeform convinced, but it took many years of actually working through the maths
asciilifeform does not expect anyone here to do this.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: well, it's called The Act Of Killing and you should look at it
mircea_popescu: maybe after teh war.
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 can it be a text ?
mircea_popescu: i had no idea just how iconoclastic i actually am, before b-a
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: a text? don't understand
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:20:13; asciilifeform: or this thread!
assbot: Disqus - Could Travelling Waves Upset Cognitive Neuroscience? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpgvv )
mircea_popescu: that film or whatever it is, does it have a script or some such textual equivalent ?
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: what'd you think? fucking bizarre?
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: no script... it's like nothing else I have seen - http://www.theactofkilling.com/
assbot: The Act of Killing ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpkey )
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: eh them recalling the days of murdering people... it seemed rather natural
trinque: having them reenact the events was a little strange, but what I was struck with was the matter-of-fact attitude they had towards the events, mostly
funkenstein_: wait violence and killing in movies? what a novel idea
trinque: I figure I live a pretty padded life not knowing what that's like
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah, natural in a way... but the vibrant colors, the recreations, them watching the takes and commenting... the translations... fucking crazy
mircea_popescu: "The government chose not to enact coercive measures, however, stating that the regulation of the online activities of children was up to parents, not the government. " << most important thing about minitel.
trinque: funkenstein_: docu has folks from kissinger's indonesian bloodletting reenacting and recounting their stories
mircea_popescu: i'd have much rather had french internet than ustardian internet.
mircea_popescu: !up mike_c_alt
ag3nt_zer0: I wasn't in the mood the first few times I started it, so I stopped... finally last night had the receptivity and it hit pretty good...
mircea_popescu: and generally, the world will be broadly a better place once the colonies get their voice turned down to the 1.6-2.2 they deserve.
mircea_popescu: there is no conceivable reason the combined cultural pull of us should exceed that of greece. they're about the same toilet.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: there's another along these lines, was pretty good
trinque: I'm trying to recall the name
mike_c: Sorry for part spam.. different client/computer than usual.
trinque: had 'nam vets and such talking about how they couldn't come back from war mentally because they liked war so much
trinque: wasn't the majority of them, but some felt that way
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: added mine, for what it's worth
trinque: the idea of a "warrior" seems foreign these days, I guess
mircea_popescu: mike_c how you doin' these days
mike_c: Who knows. I try not to think about it.
mike_c: way too busy!
trinque: heh, I know that feeling
mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla
mike_c: got a couple of good blog posts coming up though that are half way done.
mircea_popescu: but experimentally, it seems to be a transient phase
asciilifeform: mike_c: good busy or bad busy
mike_c: bad busy. Time is sucked away on things that aren't worth it.
asciilifeform is ^ much of the time
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah I suppose... unless you have to sit through a multiculturalism focused education program in humboldt county run by marxism-hypnotized dykes... then noticing fruits of their labor in Silly Valley public ed... then start thinking warrior again
ag3nt_zer0: haha it isnt even just under the surface
mircea_popescu: so argue them into the dirt.
ag3nt_zer0: yeah working on it
mircea_popescu: fwif i'm a multiculturalism fan.
mircea_popescu: cuz i'm from central europe ?
asciilifeform: usa does nulliculturalism
asciilifeform: not multi
mircea_popescu: just because they sell shit under imported names in the us doesn't mean the originals are bad
mircea_popescu: it just means the us destroys everything it touches
trinque: asciilifeform: hey, they change the holiday aisle at walmart for cinco de mayo!
ag3nt_zer0: I am a fan of apple because I live in silly valley
mircea_popescu: nah, doesn't reduce to that. central europe used to be run by a multicultural empire.
mircea_popescu: we did the funny naming conventions they used here before
mircea_popescu: !s cezaro-craiesc
assbot: 0 results for 'cezaro-craiesc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cezaro-craiesc
mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!
asciilifeform: !s царь-государь
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: multi-racial? or just multicult?
asciilifeform: ferfuxsake
asciilifeform: search is broken.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i blame you and your antistemming policies.
asciilifeform: CAN HAZ GREP PLZ
asciilifeform: as in, exact same behaviour
asciilifeform: why does b-a search have to not be grep ?
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 let's put it this way : you couldn't as a middle class woman marry some douche who didn't speak multiple languages. because your parents wouldn't let you.
mircea_popescu: because that meant he is stupid.
asciilifeform: sorta like illiteracy today
mircea_popescu: quite like.
asciilifeform: or iprogrammacy tomorrow
mircea_popescu: doubt that.
asciilifeform also doubts
mircea_popescu: but hopes ? lol
asciilifeform: but there once was this notion.
trinque: along those lines, I only just found naggum's hyperspec.el
trinque: let it be known that I resent having had to search the landfill for this shit
ag3nt_zer0: I mean maybe we aren't speaking of the same thing... here, in US, multiculti is synonymous with "tolerance" and "diversity" and cultural relativism.... which translates to, in many cases, classrooms full of unruly mexican children claiming racism if you say that 2+2=4
asciilifeform: trinque: i've spent years trying to pull naggum, uncle al schwartz, et al out of the landfill
asciilifeform: trinque: it is one of those things that has to be done.
asciilifeform: like the excavation of aristotle in the old days
mircea_popescu: and i bet you they told you all you needed to hear about gravity wells and whatnot.
ag3nt_zer0: meanwhile, any good student, mexican, white, asian, whatever, is completely fucked and her education is retarded even more than it would be normally, just by virtue of the PE system... but this shit makes it so much worse
asciilifeform: gravity wells ?
mircea_popescu: what's pe ?
asciilifeform: public ed?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, can't leave disqus because that's where his discwot is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubt it. he's switched 'discuses' a couplea times in the past few yrs, it looks like
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35257 @ 0.00054529 = 19.2253 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: doesn't seem to have much positive to say re: the folks therein
mircea_popescu: yeah. and if us falls over how many folk will go to canada.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: that reduces to "you should, as the teacher, be in charge of the fucking room."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he plays a role similar to what hanbot once did on tardstalk
asciilifeform: but without any good reason to
mircea_popescu: he can not. for who is the employer
assbot: Full text of "The_Bugbear_Of_Literacy" ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbqU04 )
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?
asciilifeform answered that one...
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 09:58:31; punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."
asciilifeform: mr b is probably closest thing southern europe has to a 'lizard'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194820 << the reason he doesn't have the ~2 trillion required is EXACTLY that he would do this with it. and it's a stupid idea and it shouldt be done. in the general case, money works to limit the power of influencing the course of events people have, and gathers itself in the hands of those who ~SHOULD~ have most to say.
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 12:58:26; punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."
mircea_popescu: that's whgat it is.
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yes but these ridiculously reductionist tolerance ideas put into the heads of idiots just amounts to, as MP says something about in a blurb about professionalism on trilema, amateurs playing the racist card or what not... any number of limp-dicked excuses and diversions from what should be the teacher's right to maintain a fucking orderly environment
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds kinda like men's rights
trinque: what I'm saying is if you were in power in the situation it wouldn't matter
trinque: the idea that a bunch of kids can overrule you is insane, aside from a fantasy
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
asciilifeform: imagine if 'reddit' folk actually had anything
asciilifeform: we still haven't recovered from their species having net connections
mircea_popescu: BitFury pool (~ 16% of hashrate) drops their max block size to 135 kB amidst large mempool backlog << check out all the gavin miner support.
mircea_popescu: they should have a vote!
trinque: haw!
mircea_popescu: make the block version be 81!
mircea_popescu: noi wait 42. 42 is the right version to have.
kakobrekla: BitFury pool < back to 974
asciilifeform: maxint.
mircea_popescu: "You can't solve a problem of lack of bandwidth by higher fees for access. A system that is too bandwidth limited to serve it's users isn't fixed by making the service more expensive."
mircea_popescu: i gotta love idiots, srsly. if not me, then who.
asciilifeform: i wonder if any of them ever encountered phrase 'load shedding'
asciilifeform: i bet they ~will~, but only when the words appear on their - final - electric bill.
asciilifeform: some time this decade.
mircea_popescu: mmmyeah.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: to reword what I was saying, thinking in terms of rights means somebody else is in charge, doesn't it?
mircea_popescu: "bandwidth just comes from whining to dad, money has nothing to do with it. why should i get a summere job ??!?!?!"
trinque: whereas the problem you describe is one of *you* not being in charge
asciilifeform: in related newz, i sometimes go to a 'dry cleaner' shop. their price, unchanged for a decade+, has gone up 50%. it was actually part of the chain's name, and they have to put garbage bags over the neon signs...
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: to be fair, I was subbing last year, and so these were not "my" classrooms, but still, it is just so fucking degenerate man... but check this: even of it IS your classroom it can still be quite dufficult with these fucking democratically programmed idiots in charge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform two words from a pile of paper you yourself regard as disinfo ?
asciilifeform: 'inflation doesn't exist. if exists, doesn't matter. and fuckyou for asking'
mircea_popescu: very shitty answer, afl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which pile
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: oh I know; I think it's too fucked to salvage
mircea_popescu: ferretsomething
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'hangout' != fiction
asciilifeform: best hangout is to expose a genuine secret. just one that still 'works' fine after exposed.
mircea_popescu: that rope's gettin' tight.
asciilifeform: that cannon's still shootin'.
mircea_popescu: point out just one ? for love ?
ag3nt_zer0: for instance, I just got a job teaching music at a school 2 days a week... so it's my own classroom. however, I have already been told that "we don't ever raise our voices here"... "we all go by our first names"... etc all this hippy slop
ag3nt_zer0: and also "we use a program called "positive discipline"....
trinque: lol!
ag3nt_zer0: so i resisted for a while, then finally looked it up thinkning "ok, I'll have a good go at it and backburner my cynicism"
ag3nt_zer0: well gwt this fucking shit!
trinque: and when the child screams for another cupcake, you shall deliver it to him in no less than 15 seconds
ag3nt_zer0: I looked it up
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:50:35; asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the "here's gavin's head on a plate, fuckwits. now what ?"
ag3nt_zer0: and it turns out the entire thing was created by a guy who commited suicide in a hotel room after he was accused of molesting kids
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 so you told them that "maybe YOU do, miss derp, but I do not. anything else ?"
mircea_popescu: did you or didn't you ?
trinque: really do have to be willing to fight people to keep any sanity in the states
ag3nt_zer0: and trinque, this is a PARENT PARTICIPATION school... and none of these motherfuckers seem to know that their entire discipline system was created by this jack ass
trinque: so piss in all their cheerios or leave, mang
trinque: and/or
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:54:36; jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?
mircea_popescu: i like jurov's logic machine.
ag3nt_zer0: but I won't say anything till I make my money to travel the world next year... then when I quit I will mention that they should look into their shit a little more
shinohai: pogo is up mats \o/
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: hell I've written php for rent
mircea_popescu: wd shinohai
trinque: the whole thing's coming down anyway
trinque: it's not like you're going to save that public school from itself and then that'll somehow mean the empire doesn't fall over anyway
trinque: sling php with abandon, I say, and study common lisp all evening and night
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: the principal said that I have a choice... but it was just a sidelined statement really
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:07:02; asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 looky here. nobody asked him anything.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes
mircea_popescu: you went to school, learned a trade, now youy're gonna aplly it.
mircea_popescu: they don't like it, they can call the union
mircea_popescu: you, of all the only people here, are in the best position. stop making up random excuses.
mircea_popescu: "i don't care how you do it. this is how i do it. get out of my classroom."
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes, I still have to learn the ropes in these ways... don't fret, my inner psychopath is learning
mircea_popescu: nay! it stands for, "nobody asked you".
trinque: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/19NRB2V.txt )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194905 << this can prolly be arranged, if we actually decide to humour this patent insanity
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:24:06; kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.
mircea_popescu: instead of just eating ntp shitsandwich
mircea_popescu: the life and times and the choices before us, good lord.
ag3nt_zer0: my problem is that I get so fucking mad at these poseurs who have the nerve to claim that they carry the flame of knowledge to pass on to these kids... when all they are doing is trying to make themselves appear nice in their own mirrors
mircea_popescu: so tell them that.
mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel; any better, this is a traditional problem of teaching as practiced since that bismarck's invention of the "school"
ag3nt_zer0: yeah... it's coming... just need to do it wisely
mircea_popescu: one kid unhappy with the other poseurs in the "cancelarie" of romanian schools cca 1980. maybe two. in each school.
mircea_popescu: 60s, same.
mircea_popescu: ;;google tovarasul profesor isoscel
gribble: Tamara Buciuceanu - Wikipedia: <https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamara_Buciuceanu>; extemporal la dirigentie: profa de mate - scena 1 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7isr9wzmWw>; Tamara Buciuceanu - Actor - CineMagia.ro: <http://www.cinemagia.ro/actori/tamara-buciuceanu-2416/>
ag3nt_zer0: thanks for the words of encouragement
mats: good to hear shinohai
shinohai: I have everything except a working static build of bitcoind
assbot: El Altar Del Dios Desconocido - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWBQOD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24875 @ 0.00053783 = 13.3785 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Fresh 'high severity' security flaw found in OpenSSL - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQxeuj )
asciilifeform: l0l re: 'team discovered'
asciilifeform: ~created~.
decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski There is no
decimation: USB support yet, which means that there is no local storage
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: (no onboard CompactFlash).
decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/5.7/octeon/INSTALL.octeon < they claim that openbsd doesn't support usb storage
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other 'news,' my node has 44 connections
asciilifeform: afaik that's a new record.
assbot: Munin :: main :: main :: mbitcoin transactions ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWEqUO )
shinohai: 44 O.o
danielpbarron: !up opus8
shinohai: udev
trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?
trinque: I'm archiving things for the derpocalypse
danielpbarron: you mean like archive.is ?
trinque: nah a command line thinger I can toss a url or regexes at and have it duplicate the site locally
punkman: trinque: there is no hope
trinque: lol, at least it will give me something to read til the power goes out
punkman: wget can recurse a bit
shinohai: snapshill bot
trinque: shinohai: link?
assbot: justcool393/SnapshillBot · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWHW1j )
trinque: has a bunch of shit regarding those archive sites in it
assbot: SSBot: this subreddit is private ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWI1lE )
shinohai: whelp thats dead
trinque: I'm just gonna bash script it up
trinque: regex match URLs, if it's from the same domain and not on disk, wget the shit
trinque: sounds easy
punkman: you'll be pulling your hair out soon enough
trinque: WHAT COULD GO WRONG
trinque: also keeping a running archive of my /usr/portage/distfiles
punkman: trinque: http://www.httrack.com/ might be of interest
assbot: HTTrack Website Copier - Free Software Offline Browser (GNU GPL) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWJM2i )
trinque: punkman: sweet, it's in portage. ty
trinque: punkman: that thing works great.
trinque: did exactly what I wanted; sane defaults; a++++
decimation: asciilifeform: amusing thread re: Guido et.al. discussing how how exactly they should fuck somebody trying to just 'import pkg' https://mail.python.org/pipermail/import-sig/2012-March/000430.html
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174822 << that was me and juliatourianski_ at the "bitcoin free-roll" poker tourny at porcfest. We made it to the final table; she busted out on the bubble and I busted out right after that. Sold my 0.3 prize on the spot for 75 dollars (since USD is not so ironically the most liquid asset, even at a libertarian festival)
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:19:40; mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?
mircea_popescu: o hey, pretty cool
asciilifeform: http://bgr.com/2015/07/08/hacking-tools-pita-encryption-keys-radio-waves << why is this ~2 yrs. plus-old project constantly in the nyooz
assbot: Hacking Tools: PITA uses radio waves to steal encryption keys | BGR ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWR4mK )
asciilifeform: while interesting things - nowhere to be found
danielpbarron: that's julia, me, birdman, and rassah (in the group photo)
asciilifeform: rhetorical q.
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 20:13:24; trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195171 << Viking recuntissance in North America happened at a pre-Apocalyptic time. By the Anglo Arrival diseases brought by the Spanish had left North America post-apocolyptic
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 17:12:48; asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 140 @ 0.07996427 = 11.195 BTC [+] {6}
BingoBoingo: Squanto was actual IRL implementation of a helpful NPC from Fallout
decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/ "However, some U.S. officials caution against taking actions against foreign states when the cyber theft is conducted for traditional spying motives. The United States has not officially named China or the motive, but privately officials say it appears China was conducting a form of trad
assbot: Hack of security clearance system affected 21.5 million people, federal authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWRQ3f )
decimation: wait wait let's not be too hasty here...
asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz!
decimation: I would like to see the moral reasoning that leads one to believe it is 'ok' to 'conduct traditional espionage' but not the kind that 'can benefit industry'
decimation: I guess it's roughly the same logic that leads one to conqueror Iraq (or Afghanistan) and then pretend that extracting tribute is immoral
mircea_popescu: the only scandal here is that 21.5 mn people worked for the government.
asciilifeform: decimation: there is an official usg fiction that dirt lifted from 'airbus' isn't passed straight to 'boeing', etc
mircea_popescu: really, this should be in the constitution : not more than one person per million.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try 300 mn
mircea_popescu: !up Xemist
mircea_popescu: Xemist you wouldn't be al would you ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the funny part is that there are various limits, in fact, because actual civil servant gets pension, health cover, holidays, statutorily
mircea_popescu: decimation i like that the only thing said there is "we like china cock - so delishious!!1"
asciilifeform: so when i worked in an army lab, it was 1 actual usg 'green badge' for 25-30 'purples'
asciilifeform: (the latter - us, coolies - contractors)
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195302 << http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ Between asciilifeform and ascii_field actually most lines past 7 and 30 days
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:17:05; *: asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines
assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqTuPn )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: damn, that's even worse
mircea_popescu: get a lyf alf!
decimation: mircea_popescu: it was more like "what china is doing is okay because we do it too!"
asciilifeform: 'Not every spy’s data is in the system. The CIA conducts its own security clearance investigations and keeps that data to itself. Even so, some U.S. officials have said that a foreign spy service might be able to identify U.S. intelligence operatives by comparing stolen OPM records with rosters of U.S. personnel at embassies overseas.'
asciilifeform: ^ trivial. if fella works at embassy and ~isn't~ in the list, he's cia
mircea_popescu: decimation not at all.
mircea_popescu: it was, literally, "we like this kind of rape - the guy is strong enough."
asciilifeform: hey, the mega-cunt left vacant by su had to be filled
asciilifeform: cn fills it, if you also add a few pillows
mircea_popescu: i dun follow.
mircea_popescu: all i see here is, the usg is no longer a virgin. today, china raped them and they thanked it for the service.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow, i rape them, and they give me a congressional medal of honor for it.
mircea_popescu: either before that tomorrow or after that tomorrow, some arab kids too.
asciilifeform: the 'thanking' is not wholly stockholm syndrome, but is used to justify giving every other printed usd to the .mil contractors
asciilifeform: (the favourite sons)
asciilifeform: which recently pioneered mega-innovations like switching to wholly-imaginary, rather than merely underpowered, airplanes
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter WHY she claims to have liked it.
asciilifeform: 'cybers33k0000rity' systems which actually spread crapware
decimation: mircea_popescu: sure it does, if she has a strap-on and another 300 men lined up
mircea_popescu: obviously it was for the children
mircea_popescu: whateverfor else
decimation: actually I predict this event will mark a turning point for usg
decimation: because now even the little kids growing up today will know what they are signing up for if they work for usg
asciilifeform: decimation: and in vietnam war they didn't ?
decimation: that didn't affect folks who just pushed paper
asciilifeform: so far i don't see any 'affect'
decimation: now even the janitors have to worry
asciilifeform looks out window for chinese gasenwagen rounding up folks on list
asciilifeform doesn't see one
decimation: well, if they are smart they will be a bit more subtle than that, but it's a fair point
asciilifeform: this is precisely what the pencilpushers mean by 'standard traditional intelligence gathering'
asciilifeform: it means 'business as usual', no gassings
asciilifeform: 'they have list' - 'we have list'
asciilifeform: 'parity'
asciilifeform: 'nothing happens, your bills are still due'
mircea_popescu: isn't asciilifeform cute :D
decimation: asciilifeform: the irony is that cn govt and us govt know what is going on, but the average usian voter is kept in the dark
mircea_popescu: what parity ?
assbot: Map: How much $100 is really worth in every state - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqUrqP )
mircea_popescu: who exactly has the chinese lists ?
mircea_popescu: what on EARTH are you talking about ?
mircea_popescu: the us doesn't even have a fgucking missile spec sheet.
asciilifeform: (^ it is very plain that they disregarded real estate)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Official Truth is that all cn rockets are still run on asymmetric hydrazine
asciilifeform: and take ~20h to fill up
asciilifeform: as designed by korolev.
decimation: "The RPPs are calculated using price quotes for a wide array of items from the CPI, which are aggregated into broader expenditure categories (such as food, transportation, or education)1. Data on rents are obtained separately from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey (ACS). The expenditure weights for each category are constructed using CPI expenditure weights, BEA's Personal Consumption Expenditures, and ACS rents expenditur
asciilifeform: fact is, there are 20k usd houses and same building elsewhere for 2mil.
decimation: yeah, well virginia is especially lulzy
asciilifeform: and you would not ever guess this fact, from the linked chart.
decimation: as if the vast collection of trailer parks 'downstate' makes up for the $mil condos in arlington
asciilifeform: because its entire purpose is to throw smoke on it.
decimation: you would end up with that chart I posted yesterday, which shows that 10 counties 'own' the majority of us real estate wealth
asciilifeform: get fleeced, rather
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75521 @ 0.0005334 = 40.2829 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: by bank first, by tax collectors - perpetually
decimation: yeah, good point. the vast majority of the 'real estate wealth' I just mentioned is actually notional value on some bank's loan sheet
trinque: asciilifeform: this thing punkman linked lets me feed it regexes of interesting stuff to look for
asciilifeform: trinque: neat
asciilifeform: could use wget+perl
trinque: yeah that would work
decimation: anyway, the net effect of this 'govt secrecy' racket seems to be to keep secrets from usians, not from foreign spies
asciilifeform: in other newz, uncle al was smart. emailed me at my consulting co. to see if comment was from an actual human
asciilifeform: let's see if he remembers how to pgp
pete_dushenski: decimation i continue to confuse the bsd's... for the edgerouter, i used freebsd as well !
decimation: ah that explains it then
asciilifeform: from thread on www: '"8^>) I'll stop by as soon as I push back some alligators.'
pete_dushenski: ayup. i can't seem to keep them straight.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^
asciilifeform: see thread
pete_dushenski: decimation mebbe if i knew wtf the difference was, i'd be of more use to others
assbot: Market Complexity Broke the NYSE Before Saving It - Bloomberg View ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVkjc )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lmao you are there are you ?
danielpbarron: i wish, i suppose
decimation: https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg138968.html < ah well then I am pleased to annouce that apparently openbsd will be supporting oceton usb in the very near future
assbot: Re: NetBSD has now support for USB on EdgeRouter Lite ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVxD1 )
decimation: at least, that's what I got out of that email
asciilifeform: if i were setting that thing up ~today~, i'd probably roll a 'buildroot' linux for it
asciilifeform: because to hell with having items that aren't in constant required use, in there.
decimation: asciilifeform: would you include binary driver turd?
asciilifeform: at all.
asciilifeform: decimation: why'd i do that
decimation: performance?
asciilifeform: it performs now.
asciilifeform: sans turds
pete_dushenski: o hey bloombergview figured out footnotes. they're catching on to the style, those nooz types, next is qntra-level content.
asciilifeform: 100% uptime since plugged in, early february
decimation: so is there an open source replacement for that driver then?
asciilifeform: never once coughed, sputtered
asciilifeform: decimation: there is not.
asciilifeform: it is running without the weird acceleration crap
decimation: well, there must be some level of 'basic functionality' the eth device supplies without it
asciilifeform: aha, like other chipsets
asciilifeform: it moves packets fast enough to keep up with my rotating disks
asciilifeform: i fail to see why i would need them to move any faster.
trinque: heh so far ate moldbug and uncle al's sites
trinque: trilema and loper I expect to be able to get via hamsterwheel shortwave gossipd someday
assbot: Latest posts of: satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToGJmx )
asciilifeform: trinque: if you need my site for anything, it's there
asciilifeform: no paywall
mircea_popescu: nice uptime.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's plugged into a massive ups
trinque: danielpbarron: the whole forum?
asciilifeform: (along with everything else that is worth anything)
danielpbarron: i lost my nearly 4 month uptime on my pogos when a tree took the power out yesterday afternoon :/
danielpbarron: trinque, just satoshi's posts
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there is a dead-tree book containing 'satoshi's posts'
asciilifeform: i have it. has some extraneous garbage, but appears to actually contain... satoshi's complete posts
danielpbarron: is published somewhere?
danielpbarron will go, buy.
assbot: The Book of Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVV4n )
asciilifeform: download for phree
trinque: call me paranoid, but yeah, I'm stockpiling information from now on.
asciilifeform: buy if you like dead tree
pete_dushenski: "Overall, the fact that the rise of top incomes has been much greater in certain sectors, such as finance, and among senior executives is more consistent with a pattern of rent (excess earnings relative to market-determined earnings) creation and extraction specific to those sectors than with a competitive market for skills." << because "market" is now synonymous with "fair". donchaknow.
asciilifeform: someone here might have told me that the fella who put that book together later turned sc4mz0r somehow
trinque: pete_dushenski: god.. the "fair market" is ripe for use as a propaganda term on their end
pete_dushenski: and because "competition" means worse people getting more shit free !
pete_dushenski: trinque seems to be moving that way
pete_dushenski: another word for socialists to reappropriate
pete_dushenski: because "the market doesn't work unless we make it work"
mircea_popescu: you generally know who the retards wish to be by looking whose words they try to misuse.
pete_dushenski: fascinating hubris, these guys.
mircea_popescu: currently, all signs point to... us.
pete_dushenski: 'all roads lead to rome'
pete_dushenski: or venice, as the case may be.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, aha the forward of the book is by berwick, the galt's gulch guy who got a write up in trilema
asciilifeform: what part of the linked text is false ?
asciilifeform: gonna tell me that the folks who service the money printers are paid 'for unique skills' rather than 'because who will stop them from taking every other bucket home' ?
asciilifeform: is that even female.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195371 <<< what can i say other than the longer i am sober the more inclined i am to head outside than sit here on pc
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:37:52; mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla
trinque is slurping naggum posts from here http://xach.com/naggum/articles/
assbot: Erik Naggum comp.lang.lisp archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWpaQ )
asciilifeform: trinque: have you tried emailing xach for a copy of the archive and very spiffy browsing scripts ?
asciilifeform: that'd be the real deal
asciilifeform: incidentally, he's - as fas as i can tell - an actual person and probably would belong here.
trinque: I have not; could do that, yeah
trinque: would be great to grab all these http://www.xach.com/naggum/books/
assbot: The Erik Naggum Bookshelf ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWICs )
asciilifeform: trinque: your stockpile probably isn't complete without a stack of 'mitsui' gold-reflector cd burns
asciilifeform: trinque: i bid on some of those
asciilifeform: the coveted ansi standard, in particular
trinque: baby-archivist steps so far, but I was looking at tape archive systems earlier :p
asciilifeform: it was gone seemingly minutes after he died
asciilifeform: never had a chance
asciilifeform: (the pdf you get if you're an idiot and pay ansi $20, or on warez - same, is an almost unreadable scan)
asciilifeform: i have wanted that thing for years. but i;m not paying usg 500 for a book
asciilifeform: esp. since i have it on good authority that they've been laser-printing that pdf
asciilifeform: for anyone dumb enough to pay
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: waitasec
asciilifeform: those aren't naggum's books!
asciilifeform: fucktonnes of garbage
trinque: orly
asciilifeform: and i ~remember~ the list from his estate sale
trinque: yeah "adobe flex for dummies" lol?!
trinque: I dunno, maybe this included the basement books
trinque: heh osu has throttled me for pulling too many distfiles from them
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqX9wI )
asciilifeform: but long gone
asciilifeform: it did not have garbage.
asciilifeform: notice, none of the american pablum
asciilifeform: and none of the microshit
asciilifeform: how those got in the other list, i do not know
trinque: cool, ty
asciilifeform: about to post a de-pdf'd version
trinque: nice
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
trinque: derp
trinque: not signed
asciilifeform: try now
deedbot-: rejected: 1
trinque: bwah?
asciilifeform: i motherfucking signed it
trinque: yeh, I'll figure it out
asciilifeform: wtf did that ~other~ list come from
danielpbarron: idk if anyone else had tried this already, but I sent some bitcoin to an address created by 0.5.3.1-beta on my pogo, and I think I have successfully sent it all back out but bc.i doesn't want to admit my transaction exists yet
asciilifeform: it made me want to throw up
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when carrying out this experiment, please remember that pogo HAS NO RNG
danielpbarron: i sent in 0.001 and sent out 0.0005 with a 0.0005 fee
kakobrekla: we will be bolting it on shorty.
danielpbarron: also, BingoBoingo's proposed change to 0.001 of the minrelayfee is very handy for keeping pogo synced
asciilifeform: ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^
trinque: this python-gnupg is a motherfucking piece of shit
danielpbarron: was formerly a dozen or so blocks behind, after restart with new setting, almost fully synced in half an hour
asciilifeform: sure is!
danielpbarron: no patch necessary; it's a config option
trinque: like... I'm just going to shell out to the gpg binary
trinque: ENOUGH.
asciilifeform: trinque: know that gpg was built just like this.
asciilifeform: like gcc was
asciilifeform: doesn't 'libraryize' at all - by design.
asciilifeform: i imagine this was done for similar reasons as for gcc.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^ << This is a bitcoin.conf option
assbot: Datum Symmetricom BC635PCI U PCI Time and Frequency Card BC635PCI Qty Avail | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToLWe6 )
decimation: appears to have onboard ocxo, which the datasheet claims 5e-8 stability - about +/- 1.5 seconds per year
jurov: ..at 25 +/- 0.1 C , no?
hanbot: !rated jurov
assbot: You rated user jurov on 24-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: A dili-, intelli-, gent..
jurov: lol my name's day here
hanbot: !rate jurov 3 A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/4b856e57905757bc
hanbot: !v assbot:hanbot.rate.jurov.3:7d94608b06d5546bfb17e08573890583b92baec4a8e2116ff570e0ffe5a8f477
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 1 to 3 with note: A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.
jurov: meh. not exactly cutting my own throat
ben_vulpes: GOOD AFTERNOON
assbot: Uranium Metal, large samples : United Nuclear , Scientific Equipment & Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1CsMVpi )
asciilifeform: decimation: what's that thing do
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't see anything oven-like
asciilifeform: or large enough to be a ru oscillato
assbot: HP Cesium Beam Frequency Standard 5061A | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToP1Ln )
asciilifeform: less than my computer, even
asciilifeform: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/primary-frequency-standards.cfm << illustration for n00bs, of usg's cesium fountain
assbot: primary frequency standards ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToPahF )
asciilifeform: iirc the tube's good for about a decade
asciilifeform: so probably not such a deal after all.
assbot: IEEE UFFC | History | Atomichron: The Atomic Clock from Concept to Commercial Product ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToQzVJ )
trinque: asciilifeform: the text of that message silently crashes or hangs python when **printed!!**
asciilifeform: 'Though the instrument spoke well for itself, National continued its promotional efforts. These were misplaced, for there was in those early years no commercial market. Ninety percent of those first fifty Atomichrons were purchased by military agencies for their own installations and for loan to other government facilities, university-operated military laboratories, and university laboratories. The other 10 percent were purcha
asciilifeform: sed by other U.S. and foreign government agencies. Apart from their evident utility as frequency standards in laboratories engaged in research in that field, or responsible for the maintenance and transmission of standard frequency and time signals, there was at first no well-established application for these instruments. '
asciilifeform: trinque: wai wat
asciilifeform: which messag
trinque: also cannot copy/paste and reupload to dpaste. dpaste gives me a blank screen after POST
trinque: asciilifeform: naggum's lib on your server
asciilifeform: dpaste gave me a 'too long'
trinque: I just grabbed it with requests *and* verified it with the gnupg turd by hand
asciilifeform: trinque: can you get me any output from the crash ?
trinque: it doesn't say shit, but trying, yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00053037 = 3.7391 BTC [-]
asciilifeform realizes with horror that he owns perhaps 90% of the titles in naggum's library list
asciilifeform: if not more
mats: u r naggum
asciilifeform: not dead of colitis yet...
asciilifeform: i suppose when i end up with ~all~ the bookz - then.
deedbot-: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: trinque: so what was that about
trinque: solution being... use less python
trinque: asciilifeform: dunno, python was choking on the string silently; maybe I'll investigate more later
asciilifeform: python 2 or 3 ?
trinque: as for now, I made curl and gpg kiss via the shell (quoted of course)
trinque: python 2
asciilifeform: iirc 2 chokes on just about anything other than straight ascii
asciilifeform: guess there was a uniturd in there, somewhere
asciilifeform: probably the norwegian titles
trinque: towards the end, yeah
trinque: and I'll be curious at 5:15 whether it shits something verifiable on deedbot.org
trinque: for now, I depart
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19392 @ 0.00052413 = 10.1639 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60508 @ 0.00051431 = 31.1199 BTC [-]
whaack: I'm working on installing the eulora client on mac, and I have two questions
whaack: (1) When you unzip the tar you get a directory with Eulora, data-cs, and a readme. Do you want people installing the game to remove the data-cs and readme and rename the "Eulora" directory to eulora-src?
whaack: If not, it seems that every instruction on the wiki should be .../eulora-src/Eulora/... instead of /eulora-src/
whaack: (2) The last instruction says to run ./configure inside of eulora-src, but there is no configure file
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00052319 = 17.056 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo the min fee thing isn't, as far as i can tell, in therealbitcoin. interested in writing a patch ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: I'm not sure I am good enough at create new code. I might dig and mail code I pull from turdmeister's 0.7.3 version for this and getpeerinfo, unsure if I can put together something that *works*
williamdunne: jurov: Any plans to get Eurola on steam?
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1INoy6R )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ what we have
mircea_popescu: whaack the mac instructyions may be a little stale
mircea_popescu: give a look at the nix stuff maybe it clarifies ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41108 @ 0.0005126 = 21.072 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: GetMinFee figures in AcceptToMemoryPool and CreateNewBlock
asciilifeform: just as one might expect.
asciilifeform: and in CreateTransaction
asciilifeform: the way i see it, what to relay is really a personal choice for node operator
asciilifeform: last i saw, the 'spammer' was sending 'old coins' though
asciilifeform: presently i'm not certain why i should give a fuck re: the spam
asciilifeform not a big fan of the whole 'mempool' scheme, but has said this before, it's in the logz
williamdunne has nearly got Eurola running, interface reminds me of a game I worked on once upon a time
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Would y'mind setting me up with an account?
williamdunne: God, now I'm having flashbacks to working with scaleform and Adobe Flash
mircea_popescu: lol no flahs here
whaack: mircea_popescu: yeah it seems there was an instruction that was missing that was in the other sections, I've updated the wiki
mircea_popescu: usually how these things go
mircea_popescu: you want an acct too ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Well, IIRC it wasn't flash directly, but for some retarded reason they thought it'd be a good idea to reverse engineer the flash format so you'd do some coding and the design in adobe flash
williamdunne: So the process was create frames in Photoshop, import to flash, add some actioncrap, and then export to scaleform
williamdunne: Which 50% of the time wouldn't work
assbot: dpaste: 3EYNJJP ... ( http://bit.ly/1INrgt8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54042 @ 0.00051194 = 27.6663 BTC [-] {2}
whaack: mircea_popescu: yes please, but I'm still working on getting the client running
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48158 @ 0.00050997 = 24.5591 BTC [-] {3}
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Thanks, seems to be working so far
mircea_popescu: ima be in there in a few mins get you started :)
williamdunne: Awesome
assbot: dpaste: 3KT2S67 ... ( http://bit.ly/1INrSio )
BingoBoingo: Ah, the minrelaytxfee flag I thought I was using was doing nothing, because it apparently didn't exist until 0.9
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.000534 = 15.486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00053839 = 1.9382 BTC [+]
shinohai: !up SuchWow
SuchWow: is there a litecoin-assets yet lol
shinohai: ren't you a dogecoiner SuchWow ?
ben_vulpes: SuchWow: what's litecoin?
ben_vulpes: 271609
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i want every token << you probably want the serialization insanity as well
BingoBoingo: Ah, the pull request that created the -minrelaytxfee flag https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577/files
assbot: Treat dust outputs as non-standard, un-hardcode TX_FEE constants by gavinandresen · Pull Request #2577 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1INtRTZ )
ben_vulpes: anyways with all this froofraw it'd be nice to have a mining pool that ran 0.5.3
SuchWow: shinohai: dogecoin is just what got me into crypo in dec 2013, i then daytraded btc/usc (and occasionally alts, plus a small mining venture) from Jan-July '13, and have been back to just working a day job for the last year or so
SuchWow: i still find it fun and useful to keep a close eye on cryptos daily
SuchWow: that 'future' gonna be here quicker than we know it :)
ben_vulpes: > fun
ben_vulpes: nothing is fun
ben_vulpes: arbeith macht frei
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> As far as I can tell time does not exist other than as a projection perpetrated by the brain << hear hear
ben_vulpes: but it's not so much the brain as the necessity of linearization of memory for things that travel along a 3-brane
ben_vulpes: (that itself is drifting steadily along another axis)
ben_vulpes: too heady for you, SuchWow?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> pogo cannot see the sun! << i hazard that pogo is not the thing
ben_vulpes: but the people setting pogos up is the thing
ben_vulpes: the difference between "fire and forget"
ben_vulpes: and giving some random noobs the opportunity to play bitcoinrpb
ben_vulpes: bitcoingrpg*
ben_vulpes: see there's eulora for the gamers
ben_vulpes: qntra for the writers
ben_vulpes: and the real bitcoin for the hackers
SuchWow: sry, super sleep dep, 14 hour workdays, being engaged on multiple chans
SuchWow: reading
ben_vulpes: it's okay suchwaoender, i'm approximately 1.8lol behind
SuchWow: we need lolyears
ben_vulpes: 1.8klol*
ben_vulpes: a lol is a "line of log", SuchWow.
SuchWow: whereas the speed of lol is somehow inversely proportional to the speed of gossip on the interent or some such
SuchWow: or that would work to
ben_vulpes: gossip is already a reserved term, sorry.
SuchWow: *too
SuchWow: yeah, no, i'm seriously too wasted (exhausted) to have much intelligent discourse. Thanks for the up tho, next time :)
ben_vulpes: SuchWow: get a fucking key.
ben_vulpes: fucking register.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: you up him again...
ben_vulpes: I KEEL U
SuchWow: this is irc lol
SuchWow: i will not register with anything for the ability to speak in an irc chan
SuchWow: it's just ludicrous imo
SuchWow: exercise basic chan mgmt :)
SuchWow: i opped #dogecoin for 18 months
SuchWow: it *can* be done lol
shinohai: ludicrous how? to verify your identity securely?
SuchWow: i regged with nickserv
SuchWow: that's plenty
shinohai dogecoin is a scam
SuchWow: i haven't paid attention to dogecoin in the longest time
BingoBoingo: Wow, init.cpp got bloated between 0.5.3 and 0.9
assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1INvd14 )
BingoBoingo: More than doubled in size
SuchWow: i think dogecoin is mainly just investor speculation at this point, and obviously several very large investors from early on and probably throughout
SuchWow: the community has shrunk almost as exponentially as it grew over the last year
SuchWow: but i don't think this chan is about that kind of stuff?
SuchWow: everytime i talk here, you all start bring up dogecoin - for the record, it has never once been me.
shinohai: > but i don't think this chan is about that kind of stuff?
shinohai: anywho ben_vulpes did u say i no can give cheezburger to SuchWow ?
SuchWow: he's just fuckin around cuz he wants me to register with your bot or something
SuchWow: it's cool lol
SuchWow: at least i don't bitch about being upped anymore :)
williamdunne: Oh god, Eurola has got me looking over some of the work I had done previously. Not all of em' are good uns'
mats: so, interestingly, one 'Vitaliy Toropov' appears to be a current employee of ZDI (as of 29Apr2015) and... appears to have sold exploits to HT
mats: hue hue hue
mats: er, as of that date, afaik
shinohai: not my bot ftr
assbot: WikiLeaks - The Hackingteam Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1INwIfG )
mats: actually, strike that, having difficulty confirming whether he's actually an employee
shinohai: arch is kinda neat
mircea_popescu: SuchWow investor may not mean what you think it means.
BingoBoingo actually trying to put this knob together. ;;;;
mircea_popescu: it's not directly equivalent to "spent money".
assbot: Litecoin Exchange Volume Outpaces Bitcoin For First Time - Coinivore ... ( http://bit.ly/1GaOHWU )
mod6: So I was stuck on block: 363734, then updated time, restarted bitcoind, now seem be be stuck on 363736 for >24 hours.
asciilifeform: mod6: who are you peered with ?
mod6: mp
asciilifeform: he's wedged iirc !
asciilifeform: stop peering with him until he unwedges
asciilifeform: betcha his clock is off too.
mod6: ok, i had thought that I read somewhere that he said he was gonna let it be until he could examine the fork closer. I never could find it in the log though. Thought maybe I imagined it.
asciilifeform: and apparently letting it be didn't unwedge it
mod6: ah.
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts his clock is off.
asciilifeform: like mine was.
mod6: mine was 25 seconds behind or something.
asciilifeform: that's not enough to wedge
mod6: hrm. maybe im misinterpreted the output
mod6: anyway, it might not be a bad time for me to stop it now anyway, and break off to try some other things. I wanna test build stator on gentoo.
asciilifeform: its natural habitat!
asciilifeform: test, test.
mod6: I see that nubs' gentoo sanity patch isn't applied, wanna get some testing in there. I'm putting a guide together so someone can patch by hand if they like.
asciilifeform: i never needed that one
asciilifeform: to run on my gentoos
asciilifeform: so i never applied it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40332 @ 0.00053839 = 21.7143 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: though i think one or two things in it are in my kills_integer_retardation patch
mod6: ok, good to know. i'll give it a shot on my end. will report back sometime next day or so.
mod6: yah. and that is included.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00053862 = 23.4709 BTC [+]
mod6: in particular, this test will be with vanilla gcc (glibc) and not uclibc. With uclibc, I had to do some extra tweaks: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-06-2015#1160161
assbot: Logged on 11-06-2015 02:57:07; mod6: no, those where in there from the beginning. i ended up adding ``#define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS'' with ``#include <stdint.h>'' to net.cpp, util.cpp and wallet.cpp and then is ok.
asciilifeform: i thought nobody got anywhere with uclibc ... ?
mod6: well, no, never did link for me properly
asciilifeform: anyone try musl yet ?
mod6: but these problems arose during compiliation. and once the above was applied, was seemingly resolved.
assbot: rcs-common/file.rb at master · hackedteam/rcs-common · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1GaQg7x )
mod6: haven't tried musl yet no.
mod6: it's on the list.
mod6: heh, it's a long list. :]
asciilifeform: williamdunne: l0l!
mod6: i'll get there though.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: Wonder how many times it was used
williamdunne: Looks like that feature was created at the request of the Italian gov mabbeh
mod6: williamdunne: did you get setup in euloraland?
williamdunne: mod6: Ish, I did all the beginner stuff, and then died
mircea_popescu: mined anything ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: No, dieded. Then had some marketing work I figured I ought to be doing
williamdunne: To be continued
mircea_popescu: mod6 it won't go past that for a while.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your node still wedged ?
mircea_popescu: im sure it is.
asciilifeform: and clock ?
asciilifeform: make sure to compare epoch clock
asciilifeform: not calendar
mircea_popescu: Thu Jul 9 22:30:43 EDT 2015
mod6: hi mircea_popescu! ok thanks. ima shut it down for now. although, im gonna sync against it with obsd here in the next few days.. different env.
BingoBoingo nearing -minrelaytxfee recipe
mircea_popescu: $hwclock
mircea_popescu: Thu 09 Jul 2015 10:30:49 PM EDT -0.727640 seconds
mircea_popescu: better ?
asciilifeform: date +%s
asciilifeform: ^^^^^^^
mircea_popescu: 1436495557
mod6: 1436495564
asciilifeform: hm matches mine within a few s
mod6: yea
asciilifeform: and still at original wedgepoint ?
mircea_popescu: well yes.
asciilifeform: peer count ?
mircea_popescu: netstat -ao | grep "8333" | wc -l
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescucoind keep logs ?
asciilifeform: anything re: rejected blocks in those
mircea_popescu: nah just spam txn rejected.
asciilifeform: that'd be most peculiar
asciilifeform: it would mean, if there is nothing peculiarly tight-lipped about mircea_popescucoind's logging mechanism, that no one has so much as tried throwing the recent blocks at it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so was the xemist guy nobody voiced actually al ?
asciilifeform: waitasec
asciilifeform: when was that
mircea_popescu: heh. paymoar attention
asciilifeform was... elsewhere
mircea_popescu: anyway, i shall be off playin
asciilifeform: come back, Xemist
asciilifeform sent him a mail with link to this logtime..
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> !up Xemist
mod6: he came here, was here for 5 minutes, was up'd while here, never said anything.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> Xemist you wouldn't be al would you ?
mod6: no response to that either.
asciilifeform: mod6: netsplit ??
asciilifeform: i don't see this up
asciilifeform: or the convo
asciilifeform: OR he got ddosed
mod6: lemme check for split, and i'll paste the log.
asciilifeform: which is still a thing
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu when do we get the ddoser's head on a stick?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: i don't see any splits in my log, but here's the log from b-a: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195623
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 21:25:25; mircea_popescu: !up Xemist
asciilifeform: it isn't in my log!
asciilifeform: or in log.bitcoin-assets.com !
asciilifeform: go, see
mod6: i can paste mine if that helps, but connect/disconnect msgs included
asciilifeform: i believe
asciilifeform: but ipso facto netsplit
mod6: check the log link I just posted above.
asciilifeform: mod6: apologies, i had the 10-7 page up
asciilifeform: yes, it's in there.
asciilifeform: gonna guess he got ddosed.
mod6: ah, ok. he came in from webchat, looks like to me.
asciilifeform: aha, iirc danielpbarron invited him to.
mod6: ah
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
asciilifeform: for completeness, i will also mention the possibility that we (or what al can see of us in his light-cone) didn't pass his bozo filter.
BingoBoingo: ^ recipe for adding flag to stator
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: methinks you left something out ?
asciilifeform: grep -i nMinRelayTxFee * | wc -l
BingoBoingo: Ah, wrong version
asciilifeform: what version was the patch for ?
BingoBoingo: stator. I mean wrong version of the revision, lemme pull up init.cpp and fix this
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no reason to hurry
mod6: true. and perhaps use unified diff
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i normally post patches after i read five times or so, and test them (to the point where 150,000+ blocks are pulled)
BingoBoingo: no idea what unified diff means
BingoBoingo: By yes, playing with this one first.
asciilifeform: there's a handy page on therealbitcoin.org
mod6: asciilifeform is quicker on the draw than me tonight.
asciilifeform: congrats to BingoBoingo though, for taking the gloves off and going at the patch game
mod6: i just had that in hand.
mod6: yeah, thasnks BingoBoingo
mod6: anyway, that link is a bit old as it describes the directories as: bitcoin-bitcoin-a8def6b
mod6: but you'll get the general idea.
mod6: ask in here if you get stuck, but again, no rush.
BingoBoingo: Actual changes http://dpaste.com/1Y0MG37 will look at actually submitting after more reading and testing and learning process
assbot: dpaste: 1Y0MG37 ... ( http://bit.ly/1dPthIi )
BingoBoingo: Surprised how little change this seems to take vs. 0.9 Bitcoin CORE implementation of flag
asciilifeform: wai didja just return printf("... ?
BingoBoingo: I know nothing better to do
asciilifeform: a few other nitpicks. the all-caps convention in bitcoind refers to constants
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: printf happens to return 1 (true) if it succeeded in printf-ing
asciilifeform: so you'd want to printf and then return false
asciilifeform: this is not seriously important in this case, but it follows 'unix philosophy' in the sense that a proggy returning false lets you use its failure as part of a shell script
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
asciilifeform: not a bad start BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: this patch is gonna be a first-class bitch to actually test though..
asciilifeform: really gotta write a proper node monitor
asciilifeform: (tx incoming, tx relayed, blocks...)
asciilifeform: ('incoming' in the network may-or-may-not-relay sense, rather than coins sense)
asciilifeform: oughta be able to watch the 'vital signs' of a node, if one wishes
asciilifeform: see forks with own eyes, pop open a block and scroll the tx, etc.
asciilifeform: anybody here likes programming for x11 ?
asciilifeform listens to the sound of silence
asciilifeform: ~another~ interesting scientific instrument would be a fly trap for invalid tx
asciilifeform: which would collect, in a zoo
asciilifeform: who is sending what kind of retarded tx, and why?
asciilifeform: how often - bad sig
asciilifeform: and how often is the latter a plausible result of bitrot
asciilifeform: how often is bad tx resulting from the use of some peculiar 'hearnia' ? (on my node - apparently, quite often)
BingoBoingo: So ever so slightly less shitty revision? http://dpaste.com/0SBAYB4
assbot: dpaste: 0SBAYB4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HRlVQS )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the return never happens
mod6: <+asciilifeform> see forks with own eyes, pop open a block and scroll the tx, etc. << ncurses instead of x11?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: c n00b mistake. need else { ... ... }
asciilifeform: mod6: gonna be ugly
asciilifeform: mod6: could try
asciilifeform: i fucking hate ncurses-mouse proggies
BingoBoingo ptolly needs to practice C
asciilifeform: and not sure if there is a simple way to weasel out of using the rodent here
mod6: fair enough. i guess if it were me, it'd be great start to just dump the block txs to a file or STDOUT or something.
asciilifeform not ui specialist
asciilifeform: mod6: phf wrote a tx dumper
mod6: me either
mod6: really?
asciilifeform: see log
mod6 looks
BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/3XVTZ6H << last go at de shittening for a while
assbot: dpaste: 3XVTZ6H ... ( http://bit.ly/1dPtP0U )
assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 17:50:03; phf: i was exploring block storage format, so i wrote some lisp code to read blocks out of .dat in sequence or directly from dumpblock'ed file http://paste.lisp.org/+38JG. i'm not sure where i'm going with it, so i'm leaving it here for interested parties.
BingoBoingo: It's only been a decade since I touched C++ source with anything other than delete key
mod6: thx ascii
mod6: oh yeah, i remember now.
mod6: i know exactly jack & squat about lisp
mod6: i'll have to give this a try sometime.
mod6: well, i guess i kinda got my toe wet with Nock.
mod6: anyway, another thing for the list :]
decimation: re: pci ocxo < yeah the ocxo is the metal case in the lower left
decimation: and yeah that cesium standard is cheap - suspiciously so. cesium only lasts so long.
asciilifeform: decimation: tube's good for ~decade
asciilifeform: decimation: that can looks like a normal quartz resonator
williamdunne: ..... this is a thing:
assbot: trevorlinton/webkit.js · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1dPuKhX )
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: or rather, why??!!!
trinque: because his github picture is professionally shot
trinque: yet he wore a hoodie
trinque: but also a jacket, y'see
asciilifeform doesn't see a picture
decimation: nah ocxo often looks like a can
decimation: but admittedly I can't say for sure, and they do have versions of the card with tcxo
assbot: EEVblog #236 - FE-5680A Rubidium Standard Teardown | EEVblog - The Electronics Engineering Video Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0yiLs )
decimation: http://www.mti-milliren.com/ocxo_260_ocxo.html < this ocxo is as good as rubidium in terms of thermal stability
assbot: MTI-Milliren Technologies, Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1L0yni0 )
decimation: and quartz typically has better phase noise than rb
decimation: but a new one will be >$500 in small qty
asciilifeform: what's the point of rb then
decimation: it does have slightly better aging
decimation: but a new rb is like $2.5k
decimation: note, these are well beyon pedestrian clocks, only for folks who 'need' less than miliseconds per year
asciilifeform always thought that a 'proper' computer oughta include a bnc jack for rb or cesiumfountain on front panel
asciilifeform: superceding the usual clock
asciilifeform: (for cpu and rtc both)
decimation: agreed
decimation: it's rediculous that doesn't exist actually
decimation: also the timing hardware available on typical x86 is usually shitty
decimation: asciilifeform: the thing that's odd is that this kind of feature isn't 'avaiable for any price'
decimation: at least on x86 servers
decimation: surely the market is nonzero
asciilifeform: on any machine i know o
asciilifeform: ... except for my biggest fpga board
decimation: I think I linked an sbc that folks modded for this
asciilifeform: it's got goldplated coax 'in's for clocking
asciilifeform: no less than 4 of'em
decimation: yeah that's typical for fpgas
decimation: because people use for actual hard timing specs
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