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feedbot: http://billymg.com/2020/01/embedded-vpatch-formatting-for-mp-wp-draft-vpatch-for-review/ << billymg -- Embedded vpatch formatting for mp-wp, draft vpatch for review
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-15#1956896 << here's some lulz : in 11985, the "austral argentino" replaced the peso argentino at a rate of 1 austral = 1000 pesos argentinos. in 1992, the "peso convertible" replaced the austral argentino, at a rate of 1 peso convertible = 10,000 australes. therefore, between the pre 1985 peso and the post 1992 peso there's a relationship of 1:10^7
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-15 17:57:50 feedbot: http://bingology.net/2020/argentina-getting-pissy-with-uruguay-envy/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Argentina Getting Pissy With Uruguay Envy
mircea_popescu: seven years, seven degrees of magnitude.
mircea_popescu: this has by and large held hence.
BingoBoingo: The USG "World Bank" of all folks *encouraged* Argentina to embrace the convertability trap
mircea_popescu: before that there was also a "peso ley 18.188", replacing a "peso moneda nacional" und so weiter
mircea_popescu: The peso ley 18.188 replaced the peso moneda nacional at a rate of 100 to 1 and was itself replaced by the peso argentino at a rate of 10,000 to 1 (the thing the austral replaced)
BingoBoingo: At this rate they'll be getting a "Peso Solidario" in the near future.
mircea_popescu: basically the place's been economically in the equivalent of "having just lost a major war" since 1880
mircea_popescu: sure, 1:100`000
BingoBoingo: Here's there a lot of noise now about reforming the 2008 retirement reform that was itself a "reform" of the 1995 reform.
BingoBoingo: The 2008 one apparently ended up thus far costing 8 times what they projected back in 2008
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with permitting the enemy to get involved with the state.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/some-altcoin-forked-off-of-bitcoin-forking-again-to-implement-developer-tax-on-block-rewards/ << Qntra -- Some altcoin Forked Off Of Bitcoin Forking Again To Implement Developer Tax On Block Rewards
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957408 << roger that. Yeah, the 'oops suspended' thing was pretty odd. I'm fine just declaring "Shinjiru" a scammer and finding someone else then
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-27 13:01:32 mircea_popescu: http://www.krankendenken.com/2020/01/mp-wp-bot-my-current-problem-and-possible-solutions/ << just ditch the shithole host you ran into.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957409 << I think I may have been a little blinded by my desire to not keep you waiting forever for this thing. But after actually talking it through (and getting proper sleep) I can see that trying to ride that rabid horse wasn't going to pay off in the long run
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-27 13:02:26 mircea_popescu: why the fuck are you so dedicated anyway ? wrong place, ditch the heathens at the FIRST sign of trouble.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957376 << ah crap, sorry i missed this earlier. they are more like constants (for adjusting e.g. whether you want decimal or roman numeral footnote identifiers) that were stored in the db because the average wordpress luser can't be trusted to edit a few variables in a php file and needs checkboxes he can click instead
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:25:46 hanbot_abroad: billymg what *are* the options on footnotes, even?
billymg: hanbot_abroad: if you want to take a look i just published a draft of the vpatch. i think more can be done in terms of cleanup of the old code but i wanted to get some eyes on it before doing another pass
mircea_popescu: " Non-debate theory is my invention. Non-debate, is to gain time to work hard. When you debate, everything becomes more complicated and it wastes time. Nothing can be done. Don’t debate, and just try. Be brave and experiment." what ludicrous, half-literate, anachronistical nonsense. where's the gook dog been living under for the past decade, a rock in his native chinastan ?
mircea_popescu: working debate, proceeding usefully towards actionable results' been a thing for a while now.
mircea_popescu: less reading deng derpy-ping, more log reading. it ain't the 50s anymore.
billymg: how much longer can socialism even survive in a post bitcoin world? is the idea to scam as much as possible before it goes away forever? the failed forkcoin looking exactly like the failed state
mircea_popescu: socialism can and will survive indefinitely. like ordinary filth, vermin infestation and so on, it's the natural order, prevalent inside graves, abandoned human dwellings, any other disturbed then neglected terrain.
mircea_popescu: all children are born socialist the way they're born dumb, deaf and iliterate, with no taste for food and no taste for music, with no sexual capacity or experience, acultural, amoral and so forth.
mircea_popescu: some stay that way.
mircea_popescu: in fact, i doubt if anything ~but~ socialism is even meaningful to small children, much like nothing but tit is meaningful to even smaller ones. by extension reproduction-as-only-function females, the dedicated mothers, grandmothers etc with no other activities or preoccupations besides the production and early rearing of children are liable to revert to their mindset and worldview.
mircea_popescu: so i really wouldn't be worried about any eventual extermination of socialism. if you don't wash you become filthy, and if you don't think you become a socialist. these'll survive, being as they are the names for a lack. lacks are eternal.
billymg nods
billymg: that certainly describes my own trajectory. developing out of the socialist mindset was like any other basic developmental process, in that it required some risk/initiative and continued effort
billymg: and still requires the effort. it seems the further i get from the child-me the more aware i am of the child-me that remains
mircea_popescu: there's a self-obvious reason socialism existed traditionally as the political mode of subsistence peasants, and then became an urban matter once industrialization produced of idle and useless vagrants in sufficient quantities.
mircea_popescu: feeding others always has the potential to produce socialism. one approach is to also give them something to do -- in which case it produces art, the best form of socialism avaialble.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-23 02:18:41 mp_en_viaje: to be perfectly clear & understand each other : the ENTIRETY of stage, from "broadway" to "highbrow theatre" to ballet to ice skating to ~EVERYTHING ELSE~, the absolutely and strictly only reason ANYTHING like the stage exists in contemporary degeneracy,
billymg: those were some good reads and re-reads, this certainly eases the paranoia that still creeps up every now and then
billymg: btw in a few i'll be in cr for about a week. this past week i've been setting up travel iron, archival and transfer procedures, etc. the digital part of the move proving much more complicated than the physical
billymg: looking forward to being completely done with the move and settled in early march -- five short weeks away!
billymg: in a few days*
billymg: after that, no more excuses. and my work and communications will reflect that
jfw: billymg: commented on your vpatch draft, probably went to spam.
billymg: approved it, ty
jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957361 - independent of the proposed session cookie change, in theory this is not so: there's a whitelist for the tags allowed in comments. In practice it seems to work too. It's in the ever so intuitively named wp-includes/kses.php
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:40:14 trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.
jfw: ah, possibly trinque is correct too, the fix got fixed. http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/
billymg: jfw: thanks for the quick and thorough review. i left a response to your comments
billymg: i think the most involved was the one about styling. it's tricky because the ideal width for a column of text in an article is not the same as the ideal width for a pane displaying code
billymg: i think i lean towards displaying code exactly as it is, even if this means some horizontal scrolling _within_ a pane, rather than machine-wrapped lines (which can be disastrous for legibility)
jfw: you're welcome. and yeah, no fully satisfying fix there that I'm yet aware of
jfw: Wrapped lines are something you can get used to perhaps. My historical preference was to pick a fixed width (typically 80) and use the text editor to wrap at that with language-aware indentation, but I understand mircea_popescu to be firmly against this.
jfw: I'll need to duck out of the discussion for a day or two though; been falling behind on my own priorities. Wanted to chime in though since I'd been recently dealing with blogging snippets.
billymg: no worries!
billymg: it's also on my todo list to eventually create a reference theme for mp-wp. this should be an opportunity to better support the code "content type" within the context of a blog
billymg: btw, when you say "language-aware indentation", do you mean something that would produce a block like http://billymg.com/2020/01/embedded-vpatch-formatting-for-mp-wp-draft-vpatch-for-review/comment-page-1/#S1-L136 ?
billymg: that one i formatted manually but in the saltmines had "linter" running which would do the same thing on every file save
billymg checks time, goes to get ready for bed
jfw: yes, vim and emacs for example do this automatically for known file types.
jfw: billymg: realized I might not have quite understood what you're asking - I meant indentation strictly, not adding line breaks, if that's what the linter does. Much harder thing to do mechanically and well.
bvt: mircea_popescu: since this point was raised in #ossasepia, a ping: i did provide the answer (as best as i could) to http://bvt-trace.net/2020/01/re-pbrt/#comment-110
mircea_popescu: bvt, i did see that, but i took it as a simple stop-gap non-answer. it's there serving a political purpose, i don't have cause to take offense for neglect or anything, which i don't ; but it's not ordinarily much of an answer, as there's no proceeding on it.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957532 << this being usually indicative of poor data structures & organization to begin with.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 01:20:54 billymg: btw in a few i'll be in cr for about a week. this past week i've been setting up travel iron, archival and transfer procedures, etc. the digital part of the move proving much more complicated than the physical
mircea_popescu: one of the many benefits of travel, it forces the review and fixing of bad trees.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957543 << imo this is the wrong choice in context.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 02:39:59 billymg: i think i lean towards displaying code exactly as it is, even if this means some horizontal scrolling _within_ a pane, rather than machine-wrapped lines (which can be disastrous for legibility)
mircea_popescu: one-glance is more important
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957545 << this is a misunderstanding. wrt code, mircea_popescu is firmly against spaces-as-substitute-tabs, on the theory that duble vowels are stupid and triple-vowels pure linguistic breakdown. there's no fucking reason to keep clucking at the same button over and over like a maniac ; and besides there's semantic difference between the two, spaces-as-tabs are just fucking
mircea_popescu: barbaric.
mircea_popescu: wrt text, mircea_popescu is firmly against machine newlines, because text is supposed to maintain auctorial intent not machine convenience, and the unit is the paragraph, and further considerations.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 02:42:48 jfw: Wrapped lines are something you can get used to perhaps. My historical preference was to pick a fixed width (typically 80) and use the text editor to wrap at that with language-aware indentation, but I understand mircea_popescu to be firmly against this.
mircea_popescu: wrt code however, mircea_popescu has no firm oppinion on line length, or what to do about it (apparently he also doesn't have a firm oppinion on discussing himself in the third person, which strikes the fourth person mp, that being the first person reading itself in the third person, as a little odd).
mircea_popescu: there's the argument that very long lines are a symptom of poor writing habits, and if one re-wrote his code such that "fitting code to viewport" is never an issue the code won't thereby suffer (and if this means ditching idiocies like "object oriented" and dead-end wanna-be nonlanguages -- well, it's a public service).
mircea_popescu: then again have you seen my/his (hey, if dumbass bois can be denoted by complex pronominal constructions of little sense and even less purpose, why can't i be my/his!!!!) bash kb+ one-liners ? the man's insane!
mircea_popescu: there's also the argument that the compiler's the arbiter of code, and if ~it~ doesn't complain then fuck you. but in any case i really am not advanced enough to have the impression i have something to say on that matter.
mircea_popescu: now, all this becomes entangled once we apply our literate coding standards, because suddenly the code-vs-text difference above dissolves, and wtf are you saying, mircea_popescu ?!
mircea_popescu: what i'm saying here to billymg is that he really should look into how trilema flows the content of logs such that they fit in the allocated space, imo that's the only way to go about ths problem
mircea_popescu: and i think it's extensible : the same exact process should be applied to all code displayers ; it'll handle comments correctly by default, and people who don't like what it does to their code should write their code otherwise.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the "machine-wrapped lines" refers to the machine pissing spurious characters into the text, NOT to how any terminal ~displays~ the text. what's wrong is specifically comma-slash-n, a syntactucally forbidden construction, \n can only follow a dot, questionmark, exclanation point etc.
mircea_popescu: apparently also a space :p
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957549 << your example instantly falls down on its own power, btw : think you, to scroll right to see portions of the top lines i now have to scroll down such that the lines in question are off the viewport ? how do i know when i scrolled enough ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 02:52:39 billymg: btw, when you say "language-aware indentation", do you mean something that would produce a block like http://billymg.com/2020/01/embedded-vpatch-formatting-for-mp-wp-draft-vpatch-for-review/comment-page-1/#S1-L136 ?
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957561 << with this in mind i made some adjustments to the CSS that i think improve the display quite a bit http://billymg.com/2020/01/embedded-vpatch-formatting-for-mp-wp-draft-vpatch-for-review/#S1-L1
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 06:06:31 mircea_popescu: one-glance is more important
billymg: i reduced the tab-width and added the css line wrapping jfw suggested
billymg: there should be no more horizontal scrolling, but potentially depending on browser vintage some of the css attributes may not be supported. if it looks off to anyone please let me know along with browser version so i can look into it
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957556 << seriously. i was ashamed at myself for how long i'd let it go on. completely wrapped up in the saltmines i deluded myself into thinking i didn't need it
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 06:03:38 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957532 << this being usually indicative of poor data structures & organization to begin with.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957575 << i'm not sure i follow here. you would need to scroll right to read the line with the regex and then back left to continue downward (since i've already updated the formatting of the patch viewer on my site so that lines now wrap to fit the viewport, here is what i was referring to: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=p1jb )
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 06:24:08 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957549 << your example instantly falls down on its own power, btw : think you, to scroll right to see portions of the top lines i now have to scroll down such that the lines in question are off the viewport ? how do i know when i scrolled enough ?
billymg: i personally prefer the formatting in the first block because the newlines and indentation make it very easy to see that exactly one condition is being tested (the result of preg_match_all) and that preg_match_all is being passed exactly 4 arguments
billymg: that probably wasn't the best example for "how to manually format your code to fit in the viewport", since the regex line still goes beyond the max column width, but i was mostly trying to make sure i understood what jfw meant by "language-aware indentation" from his editor
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/entire-argentine-judiciary-paralyzed-as-computers-stop-working-for-them/ << Qntra -- Entire Argentine Judiciary Paralyzed As Computers Stop Working For Them
billymg: and whether or not that was similar to what a "linter" would do (which is closer to the first block, depending on how it's configured)
mircea_popescu: billymg, in the original example i looked at, line 149 reads : "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_POST)) ? true : false;"
mircea_popescu: the portion "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_" is visible on my browser. in order to actually see the "POST)) ? true : false;" portion of it, i'd have to scroll right. however, the right scrollbar is under line 413. if i scroll that far down, the topmost line is in the high 300s, meaning that i can't observe the effect scrolling right has upon line 149.
mircea_popescu: this is remedied in the new version, because while the horiz scrollbar is still there for some reason, there's no need of it, as the actual width matches the window width, so there's no leeway to scroll left/right
mircea_popescu: why /]] anyways ?!
billymg: > because while the horiz scrollbar is still there for some reason, there's no need of it, as the actual width matches the window width << this might be because the hashes at the top of the diff are not being broken in your browser
mircea_popescu: 128MB default memory limit for a PHP script << this is not factual ; there's no default limit for a php script, it's set by config file, you can make it any value you wish.
mircea_popescu: they're broken, 1e69 - b26d299c1f0e9c11631a78c46f95913bd
billymg: hrm, that's strange. that was my only guess as to what be causing the ghost horizontal scroll bar (those lines needed a special case handling with `word-wrap:break-word;` to properly wrap)
billymg: what could be*
mircea_popescu: hence my "look into how trilema does logs"
mircea_popescu: but yes, you prolly have "scroll:show all" or somesuch'
billymg: no, no setting there, so whatever's default (which i believe is overflow: auto)
billymg: in my version of firefox there is no scroll bar, but lemme take a look at the css for trilema logs...
billymg: ok, so trilema logs uses `word-wrap: break-all` on the entire content column. i used jfw's suggestion of `white-space: pre-wrap` on the code column because it wraps long lines without splitting individual strings
billymg: but i'm not even sure yet if that's what's causing the ghost scrollbar you're seeing, since you say the text is properly wrapping within the viewport and the scroll appears unnecessary
billymg: hrm, i'm not seeing anything else in the trilema logs css that would fix it. so the space to the right of the pane is completely empty, not a single line extending past the viewport's edge? is it a lot of empty space to the right (in terms of pixels, inches, or however)?
diana_coman: billymg: why is the viewport necessary?
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957590 << ahh, i see what you mean. yes that block was particularly bad in the first version, mostly due to the insane default css tab-width setting. it's also something that i tend not to notice because i don't use the scrollbars themselves for scrolling (trackpad on a laptop instead)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 15:04:59 mircea_popescu: the portion "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_" is visible on my browser. in order to actually see the "POST)) ? true : false;" portion of it, i'd have to scroll right. however, the right scrollbar is under line 413. if i scroll that far down, the topmost line is in the high 300s, meaning that i can't observe the effect scrolling right has upon line 149.
billymg: diana_coman: i'm not sure what you mean. if there's no viewport then the content column of the blog becomes the "viewport" -- e.g. http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-19-mar-2016/
billymg: so i could remove the 1px gray border and increase the width by about 20px so that it goes right to the edges of my blog's content column, but that would still be a viewport, no?
billymg: also fwiw the width of the viewport i have set in my blog's theme css, not in the plugin. the css in the plugin was left intentionally bare-bones so that users could style it to best fit their own blog layouts
diana_coman: billymg: I don't get why is the code separated from the rest of the text as such; for one thing the test article there for instance did not work well at all on zoom in/out in my firefox
diana_coman: visual separation via background or similar, sure; but why is more than that needed? (and I'm truly asking aka if indeed there's a good reason for it, fine; I just don't currently see the reason)
billymg: > visual separation via background or similar, sure; but why is more than that needed? << this is the main reason, yes, and i thought that i kept that to a minimum (1px light gray border is all really)
billymg: the width of my codeblock column vs. the width of by blog content column vs. the width of the blog "layout" (white bg) is all set in my theme, not in the plugin
diana_coman: billymg: hm, why the scrollbars then?
billymg: ohhhh, i misunderstood mp's comment
billymg: re: scrollbars
billymg: sorry, one sec, lemme make an adjustment...
billymg: ok, do you mind refreshing to see if that fixed what you were seeing?
diana_coman: billymg: fixed indeed!
billymg: awesome!
billymg: and thanks for bearing with me during the live style tweaking
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957592 << this was my rationale. from actual testing it proved safe across languages (with only a handful of exceptions in the mp-wp genesis' 162k lines)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 15:06:47 mircea_popescu: why /]] anyways ?!
billymg: it's short and closest to the original [[]] that was suggested but without failing in bash snippets
diana_coman: np; looks not bad atm though I'd even strikethrough the deleted lines tbh
billymg: diana_coman: ty. re: the line styling, each line has its own class, so can be trivially styled at the theme level to suit any author's preference. i think it should be up to the blog's author to decide how they present their content (and if they do a horrible job of it, their readership loss is on them too)
diana_coman: billymg: o.O style it line by line??
billymg: haha no no
billymg: e.g. the removed lines have class="line-removed" set on them
billymg: so you can go in your theme css and add any styles you want for span.line-removed { }
diana_coman: ah, I see; right, colours and/or anything else up to the css; works.
billymg: i see how "each line has its own class" is unclear and could read as "has its own _unique_ class" -- should have said "each line has a class based on its type"
billymg will bbl
mircea_popescu: yeah, scrollbars gone now
mircea_popescu: billymg, my question was rather why not simply ]]
mircea_popescu: in other news, found and quashed yet another utf bug. http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-11-mar-2013/ was only displaying up to http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-11-mar-2013#537603 because the next line contained 👍 which is a wtf
mod6: 'mod6_auction' is my new irc account for bidding on the foundation's auction for the dell servers.
mod6: I'm hoping that if I throw in a bid with my mod6_auction IRC registration for auction #1077, this won't be an issue.
mod6: I guess on the other hand, if the auction goes bid-less, then I'll just buy the machine for the reserve price from the foundation.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/chinese-one-dollar-bill-shipment-seized-in-minnesota/ << Qntra -- Chinese One Dollar Bill Shipment Seized In Minnesota
mod6: Any thoughts on the better course of action?
BingoBoingo: !Xview 1077
auctionbot: Sell order # 1077: Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ Opening: 17mn ecu Leading Bid: None Ending: 2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 UTC (1 hours 38 mins)
BingoBoingo: !Xview 1078
auctionbot: Sell order # 1078: Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ Opening: 17mn ecu Leading Bid: 18mn ecu Ending: 2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 UTC (1 hours 38 mins)
BingoBoingo: mod6: I don't know that it's a big deal. I strongly suspect you are buying it at the reserve price.
mod6: That's fine too. I do actually want the server, so if bidding on it works, I'm fine with that as well.
auctionbot: Sell order # 1077 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: mod6
auctionbot: Sell order # 1078 has ENDED: Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ SOLD to BingoBoingo for 18mn ecu. Attn: mod6
mod6: Alright, well looks I am buying 'Server-A' since there were no bids. Will pay 0.01700000 BTC to jurov (Foundation Treasurer).
mod6: BingoBoingo: I'm not sure what the exact protocol here is, but I'm guessing you can pay me if you'd rather, since I ran the auction for the Foundation.
BingoBoingo: mod6: Sure, do you want to make an invoice?
mod6: (I then, in turn, will send the sum over to jurov.)
mod6: Ah, is that how it usually goes? Auction creator invoices the winner of the auction?
mod6: !!invoice BingoBoingo 0.018 Winner of Auction #1078 (Foundation's Dell R610 Server in Uruguay)
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1_-s

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