a111: Logged on 2019-06-30 18:06 mircea_popescu: trinque, coupla withdrawals ping.
trinque: er, pong!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921150 << even if you do them monthly, or quarterly, or whatever works well for you, they're just as good. the sticking point isn't that omg, gotta be every half hour. the sticking point's that you, you first and foremost, WANT the fucking written record so you can reason about your own history meaningfully. rather than treat it as an inestimable, unevaluable and otherwordly gift from the g
a111: Logged on 2019-07-01 00:30 lobbes: mainly, Ima try the weekly "this is what I want to accomplish this week" reports
mircea_popescu: form and unalterable in substance.
mircea_popescu: gotta start taking own life back. absolutely, have to. if not, the destiny is very fucking clear : http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-08#1917827 an' http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-13#1913031
a111: Logged on 2019-06-08 21:15 billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-13#1913031 << something i'm thinking a lot about as well
a111: Logged on 2019-05-13 17:54 lobbes: I've been doing some hard thinking lately, about what I want in life, and about how I'm way too content with my current living situation in the reich. The problem is that man can indeed be content ~anywhere. Nevertheless, I find myself being sucked closer and closer to the intake of the mass chumpatron. My time, my money, my sanity, slowly but surely slipping away with each day
mircea_popescu: you realise, do you, that thing exists EXACTLY as ~teh default lifeflow for minds incapable of examining their lifeflow~. that's what it fucking IS, that is the definition, "the empire is what happens to cattle, incapable of reflection".
mircea_popescu: hence http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-21#1247708 and EVERYTHING ELSE. it is what it is!
a111: Logged on 2015-08-21 23:21 mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how to get this point across moreso than this, and the previous installment, and the ones before that. but somehow it's gotta be gotten across, because apparently it's the one place everything hangs from.
mircea_popescu: there's two ways to organize human activity : either you sit and think about right and wrong, or else you pick the next-easiest thing. the former produces the republic, the latter produces the empire, with its sorted "market" of "bids" of easiness. these flow NECESSARILY from that choice. that's all, the economic underpinning of the divide is simply and wholly there.
mircea_popescu: the general expectation of the pantsuit that their century-long loud noise has eliminated the possibility of thought as a backing of human activity is why they're so fucking [http://trilema.com/2015/so-i-found-the-libertard-motherlode/#select
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 15:31 mircea_popescu: jurov is smart kid, gotta have some ankle weights of stupid and loud noises in inner ear lest he doesn't fit in with the idiots he originally originated with anymore.
mircea_popescu: cheeky], too!
mircea_popescu: meh, wrong link
mircea_popescu: motherfucker, this terminal is eating the final portion of my lines, when they break in two parts.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921164 << should be "gods above, fixed in form and unalterable in substance"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-01 07:35 mircea_popescu: form and unalterable in substance.
mircea_popescu: the many blessings of travel, you get to debug a random pile of strange every short time interval with arbitrarily limited toolsets. and people enjoy this! people who don't even get to play with the bodies of the local choicer bits. incomprehensible.
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 3799 + 4253 + 2997 + 3721
mircea_popescu: aw shit, lobbes bot down ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: lobbesbot is in #eulora
diana_coman: I think it's the auction bot here only
mircea_popescu: !#s "!Qcalc"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i used it recently!
mircea_popescu: did i miss some updates ?
diana_coman: not that I know of/aware of so it seems you are right and it *should* work in here too
diana_coman: lobbes: ^ ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, would you say the share system of compensation is rather a help or rather a hindrance in acquiring new writers for the qntra ?
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/qntra-sqntr-statement-on-q2-2019/ << Trilema -- Qntra (S.QNTR) Statement on Q2 2019
mircea_popescu: in other unexpected sideways minutia, i'm drinking from this bottle of... jurajska. woda z glebi jury. jurov want a picture ?
diana_coman: hm, did qntra ever try specifically to get new writers (and I do mean from outside #trilema really)? or was the idea that some will emerge out of the readers? for that matter I have no idea if/how much is qntra read outside here.
mircea_popescu: the idea was that all the idle fuckwits making up some portion of the 10 billion bipedal cows befouling god's green earth for no purpose and to no benefit will drop their idiotic ways and present themselves for service.
mircea_popescu: so as to actually do something with themselves, as opposed to continuing with idiocy ad idem.
diana_coman: idiocy pays apparently way too well atm for anyone to want to drop it
mircea_popescu: it'll continue to "pay" forever. back when the brits were machine gunning the zulu "warriors", zulu warrioridiocy was also "paying too well"
mircea_popescu: dumbest thing in the world, entering into paywell-ing competitions with idiots.
mircea_popescu: to be honest, i also much prefer the killing of idiots over their redemption. i'd much rather built a machine gun nest in a village than a school.
diana_coman: ah, there is no possible competition no, the infinite points and all that (and in this case just moving on to next idiocy that pays well); at most attrition I had in mind
mircea_popescu: yeah. well, that's happening. slowly.
mircea_popescu: you have no fucking idea jusy how utterly POOR yurpeans are.
mircea_popescu: that's the funny thing. for all the pretense, they are ALREADY the rats living among the ruins of a "distopian future". what fucking distopian ? in the rare cases i'm not the only one in the restaurant, i'm the only one who can afford to pay the bill. everyone else's there with mechanised ious and mommy allowances etc.
mircea_popescu: the average girly that a) looks like anything you'd fuck and b) isn't already outright working the streets has never in her life had in her hand, as discretionary funds, the cost of a decent meal. this is europe, EXACTLY like africa. minus the infrastructure, they're exactly the same place. exactly the same people anyway.
mircea_popescu: and for this obvious sadness, they still go about pretending about "rights" and "no truth exists" and whatnot tenets of the idiocy that got them there, slaves on the continent their forefathers fought etc.
diana_coman: esp the no-cash part is really hard *not* to notice since every goddamned shopkeeper/waiter/whatever forever shoves that machine in but poverty is effectively built on purposeful "short-term memory" anyway
mircea_popescu: from under the well worn tshirt, washed more times than i dipped my cock in woman, from under the "cut up" jeans to mask the wear and tear, from inside the tentsheet shoes only the poorest of the poro kids wore during the LEAN communist years, holding the smashed smartphone ("where did you drop that ?" "which time ?"), they sprout forth the tenents of the idiocy that fucked them.
mircea_popescu: and then i say "yes, but i'm rich, i don't care what you think of anything" and she giggles. and "you can't order things not on the menu" and "don't you need a ticket ?" and "you have to stay here, there's nowhere else" and etcetera.
diana_coman: o.O you can't order things not on the menu??
mircea_popescu: whatever, it's all been said a dozen times.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, apparently. cuz the menu is like the limit of existence now or something, the "company policy". wanna queue for cabs ?
diana_coman: well, giggles make perfect sense; that's what kid does when confronted with never-heard-of stuff that is however not entirely (though closely) incomprehensible
mircea_popescu: anyway. my point here is : attrition already happened 80% of the way. the difference between frenchgirl i recall from 1992 and frenchgirl i perceive in 2019 is staggering.
mircea_popescu: yet it was PERCEIVED 0%.
mircea_popescu: they've already been attrited out of most anything anyone'd ever want anyway.
diana_coman: ah, I don't expect it's perceived by degrees, no; for as long as it can be not-perceived (i.e. no direct hunger, long hunger sort of thing), it won't be perceived, no.
mircea_popescu: it's honestly not so far off from hunger.
mircea_popescu: 22 yo NEVER HAD TROUT BEFORE.
mircea_popescu: is this not hunger ? what is this hunger ?
diana_coman: well, there were schools in the uk where "children are ash-grey and can't think of anything other than food, what learning" - that is closer to hunger; but ofc there is no cause to be addressed there, only rights to be asked for
mircea_popescu: "there is no such fish as truite in french". what, it was my accent ?
mircea_popescu: the entire floor of this very comfortable hotel i occupy (well, the lesser rooms, i got the nicer corner place) is occupied by large dudes in the tell-tale bodybuilding+tattoos color scheme and their obvious hookers. and they give me either upset or terrified glares whenever we pass, i suppose depending on whether my girls happen to be dressed ("hey, how come he has MULTIPLE?!?! unfare!!!") or not and i'm wielding a paddle o
mircea_popescu: shit what what what").
mircea_popescu: there's not a single nice guy with great sense of humor anywhere in sight. i suppose they're all at the library by choice.
mircea_popescu: yurp belongs to the scrap iron man today. whether homebrew gangster or imported, "the system" has utterly failed.
diana_coman: on the positive side, europe has a long history of failing in one place and then sprouting up again in another place; sort of used to failure and recovery
mircea_popescu: all i want is for this to be the place.
diana_coman: I want that too and therefore I'm pondering here if I'm not focusing too much on all the tech parts that eulora needs sorted (and the pile just seems to grow) instead of specifically carving out some time for proper outreach of the filtering kind to build up helpers if I can't find them
mircea_popescu: gotta do both things.
mircea_popescu: always gotta do both things, it's how this goes.
mircea_popescu: talk to some kids in between working in the orchard, there's no way out of this.
diana_coman: I did / do on occasion but it seems to me it needs to be way more focused thing than just this leisurely "on occasion"
mircea_popescu: well, the literate process can help there as anywhere.
mircea_popescu: write it down.
diana_coman: will have to, yes.
mircea_popescu: there's deeply ingrained anti-sharing culture leading to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-30#1921077 style nonsense. i have derived no detriment from my cock being publicly visible ; my sluts derived no detriment from their whatever exposure. there is, literally and strictly, no drawback whatsoever to communication.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-30 19:46 BingoBoingo: I brought up http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-30#1921054 because it epitmoizes the Republican communication problem where despite ample examples, keeping everything "sooper top seekrit" until its absolutely "done" is the most losing strategy.
mircea_popescu: it ~seems there might be~, in all sorta ways manners and "do we still have to DO this". it's an illusion. idiocy simply gets filtered out at 0 cost and that;s that.
mircea_popescu: "somebody" deciding "you are stupid" or whatever the fuck else on the basis of your own fucking work is exactly as interesting as the fly-meaning of flies buzzing by.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: those that made it at least in here for some talk are fully visible, see the mp3 guy as most recent but as I said, so far I was 99% on "get eulora finally going" ; this clearly has to change because otherwise by the time it's good to go, there's nobody left or something.
mircea_popescu: even without the "oh, bad things in future". it has to change because it's unhealthy. why do eight hour stretches locked in kitchen/orchard/garden whatever when you could be doing twelve hours of relaxed work and play ?
mircea_popescu: back when chet was an adult woman, decade or so before we met, she ran the only old style kitchen in her neighbourhood. local girlies came to hang out and learn how to cook, her house was always full. my cousin i had hannah live with for a coupla months did the same thing, she had two hgirls one year apart of her own and a half dozen daytime live-ins.
mircea_popescu: why eschew the pleasant way this always worked for some ford-esque atrocity of a chaplin parody ?!
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as human industry that does not benefit from company ; the strange behaviours of baruch spinoza and such are 1. not a tradition but an accident and 2. something the old masters ~regretted~ as an unfortunate result of misguided youth, wasn't their fucking option and choice.
diana_coman: filtering is not relaxed, no; fwiw I DO already have some hours when yes, teaching young people maths mainly; but that's not translating at all so far into having anyone do work for eulora
mircea_popescu: so put up ad, you know, "work with me on X". even if you don't go to local uni to send you students for practice, kids may well show up.
mircea_popescu: pretty much everything worth having in this world can well be had for the cost of a cup of coffee well brewed.
diana_coman: that's precisely the thing: I went to local uni to offer them "come and practice"; result nil; but again and as above: this part needs to come to focus and then (only then) it will work. (I know I made it work before, it's not that I can't or something)
mircea_popescu: the one other element is that i suspect formalism has a significant destructive effect.
mircea_popescu: consider this example : at burlesque competition (writing an article about this that'll fill in details) i told organizer i'm giving free vodka to the contestants after the show, and spread the word around. everyone was excited, yet nobody came.
diana_coman: partially there is this obsession with "gotta be a mobile app"; and while sure, one could make a eulora client for mobile if they care for, first of all I DON'T CARE FOR THAT and second ffs, I'm not going to load into my head apple's shit now
mircea_popescu: the girls' PRIVATE commlines however, those were snowed in. it's not that they didn't wanna ; it's that for some (yet uncomprehended) reason they... couldn't just fucking come, not in a group, i dunno.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's an item on the cattle survival list we don't know about, "never act on any public leads". nfi.
diana_coman: ah, hm; THAT might fit very well indeed.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, honestly, a pointed "no" works wonders. you don't have to either cater or appear to cater to their worldview or expectations. they take that just fine.
diana_coman: they move away; but it's quite possible that it's not because of the "no, not mobile" - that's just the convenient excuse and those same would have found another otherwise
mircea_popescu: but it seems to me talking to the pantsuit youth ~in groups~ is a complete waste of time. from one end to the other, fetlife yielded via private messaging ; okcupid did not yield through public and visible group dominance, i dunno the whys and wherefores but they evidently ignore all group anything.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, possibly the problem was you engaged the matter. imo the correct approach to whatever the fuck nonsense they sprout is simply no and moving back to discussing actually important things.
mircea_popescu: if you spend your time engaging their idiocy on its own terms you'll just be sadder than you need to be.
diana_coman: can still be (I've repeatedly and from-experience cut down on it but possibly still more to cut; it certainly DOES work wonderfully when I'm truly pissed off, yes.)
mircea_popescu regularly ignores nonsense on "absolute truth" "respect" "consent" etc blablabla from assorted girlies. they handle it just fine, in fact all they're really looking for is some kind of release from it. if there's a place where things can be discussed without reference to the pantsuit mental infrastructure they're perfectly happy to.
mircea_popescu: so simply do that. "oh, is this a mobile app ?" "ehh, *handwave* mobile apps. here's the weird thing about shaders..."
diana_coman: will do.
mircea_popescu: and the other item in this rapidly depleting bucket of possibly useful ideas : fucking pick. obviously i'll look at a group and go "talk to that one with the tits" or w/e such, my picks are easy peasy. but this doesn't mean yo ucan't pick! look at a group, select the donkey with the more intelligent gaze, talk to that, what's to keep you.
mircea_popescu: you hold your lordship like anyone else, your choice enacts reality, if someone else was the smartypants you didn't pick, shame on ~THEM~. they should've looked more like it.
diana_coman: that's certainly something I need to work more on, yes.
mircea_popescu: can pick any which way you choose, and if you don't like it... guess what! you can change it!
mircea_popescu: one of the key crowd control mechanisms of the empire, useful esp at the top, is this discouragement of arbitrariety. what, you're made of hookmeat or something ? you can pick, that's what you're here for, to pick!
diana_coman: I suppose I'm fighting more my own fear of "wrong" pick than anything; one thing that good memory does at least is that it keeps there for ever ALL the lessons learnt and changes/improvements made too so yes, can change further.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: pick-and-choose will break their goop!
diana_coman: it's a shame the child is only 6 as otherwise he's anyway coming home straight to check that I didn't "do anything with the computer parts" while he was away; and I have yet to see any of his play-mates that want to leave our house when time is up, lol.
mircea_popescu: that kid will have one hellvua childgood.
diana_coman: well, I guess he may have his own computer when he builds one himself, too
mircea_popescu: well, i meant childhood, but anwyays.
mircea_popescu goes back to writing these boring missives nobody ever reads
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921246 - btw, meant to say, whether my-fault or whatever, "a house always full" will see me running for the hills.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-01 10:05 mircea_popescu: back when chet was an adult woman, decade or so before we met, she ran the only old style kitchen in her neighbourhood. local girlies came to hang out and learn how to cook, her house was always full. my cousin i had hannah live with for a coupla months did the same thing, she had two hgirls one year apart of her own and a half dozen daytime live-ins.
mircea_popescu: so do your own thing, it's your own house.
diana_coman: aha, precisely.
mircea_popescu: just, you know, whichever way you answer to the burdens of living, an answer you must give.
mircea_popescu: breathe as you breathe just as long as you get oxygen in ; eat as you eat, just as long ... and so on.
mircea_popescu: there's no "i'll be a living organism only doing 2/5 of the things living organisms must do". this is not an available option.
diana_coman: certainly; I've put it in the log more to make it clear that it's just one example, not some "has to be this way"
mircea_popescu: copying the forms may be a great way to get to the substance -- which is why say all painters who painted back when painting worked and such a thing as being a master painter was still on the table learned the craft in "full houses", run by some older painter ; but we're adults, we're in the business of substance here, no amount of formalist perfection's gonna do anything on its own.
diana_coman: you know, they used to say "he was bred to painting/butchering/whatever"
mircea_popescu: hm ?
diana_coman: about "learning a skill"; I've read recently Benjamin Franklin's own auto-biography and that's how he put it everywhere.
mircea_popescu: kinda how it worked, 1700s.
asciilifeform ate log. will take mircea_popescu's prescription.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu plox to elaborate re 'unreviewable theorems'
asciilifeform mired, it so happens just nao, in pile of saecular crapola, 'lucky' strike similar to mircea_popescu's modem troubles the other day.
mircea_popescu: it said "your single-path-impredictable-and-unreviewable theorems" ; they'd be these 1. "theorems", as the term is used here, ie, constructions of the mind, which are 2. single-path as in, there is only one possible way to get there (unlike true constructions of the mind, which can always be reached from a multitude of nodes, the implication being that these are mere masks on specific structures of psychogenic noise, not bon
mircea_popescu: objects) and further 3. escape any possibility of planning, denoted by prediction and review.
mircea_popescu: when newton sits down to do some work, newton proceeds from the edges of the known in a general direction, yes, but he can do this in a number of ways at a number of times ; he is not seized upon by sudden inspiration, to be helplessly thrown to and fro like a maniac, arriving he knows not when or where.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-burlesque-competition-and-assorted-observances/ << Trilema -- The burlesque competition and assorted observances
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a, i thought you were re: the 1 actual theorem ( asciilifeform has just that 1, and imho pretty trivial result )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i have opposite problem, typically end up walking dozen dead end paths before find usable one.
asciilifeform: as i understand, per the teachings of mircea_popescu , if walked 9000 dead ends -- ought to chronicle 9000 dead ends. but when, then, to chronicle the usable ?
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921192 << I am unsure whether it is an aid or a hinderance. douchebag and other passers by have suggested the share thing may be a hinderance. On the contrary to the back monkey theory http://trilema.com/2019/qntra-sqntr-statement-on-q2-2019/#selection-59.160-63.0 doing 1.2 qntra pieces daily month after month seems to be the major activity in my life keeping me more or less sane.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-01 08:32 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, would you say the share system of compensation is rather a help or rather a hindrance in acquiring new writers for the qntra ?
BingoBoingo: It would be nice if more hands came to this deck but little reason to order yours here when you have other avenues for educating them and more productive uses to apply them to. Principally it would be nice if more people climbed out of the muck. But http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795969
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 03:27 mircea_popescu: back when some imbecile went to fake news media rather than coming to qntra, got sent to jail for it, STILL did not admit there exists no media online besides qntra.
BingoBoingo: The loud noise http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921173 seems to have flattened to the world to shit, though apparently not Poland yet!
a111: Logged on 2019-07-01 07:44 mircea_popescu: the general expectation of the pantsuit that their century-long loud noise has eliminated the possibility of thought as a backing of human activity is why they're so fucking [http://trilema.com/2015/so-i-found-the-libertard-motherlode/#select
BingoBoingo: Anyways, as I compile this market profile for public consumption it is clear that when pizarro churner pushing copy, the copy'll have to include some of the things we host as an introduction to the Republic. This would mean Qntra, Eulora, and whoever might want their blogs listed.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news, the small parties https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/la-pelea-de-los-chicos-para-llegar-a-los-500-votos-2019630204726
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: if it helps pizarro in the slightest, feel free to list my blog, sure
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty
BingoBoingo to acquire a whole pollo speido y continue outlining a very sad market
mircea_popescu: the cherries popped sometime yesterday. (this is an euro event, sometime during the summer the mega cherries, huge, delicious, appear by the truckload on the market).
mircea_popescu has been buying by the bushel, from street vendor conveniently placed right under my balcony. omfg cherries! fucking delish
mircea_popescu: "Y sin mucho aparato político ni recursos para poder imprimir listas a cuatro tintas, la tarea no era fácil." << dorks can't afford 500 color copies, think they're party. in continuation&extension of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795969
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 03:27 mircea_popescu: back when some imbecile went to fake news media rather than coming to qntra, got sent to jail for it, STILL did not admit there exists no media online besides qntra.
BingoBoingo: Not like anyone prohibited black and white laser printed or photocopied lists, but the marginal gotta obsess over the colors because they haven't been stomped enough
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/07/01/market-segment-research-report-1-self-aware-surplus-males/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Market Segment Research Report #1: Self Aware Surplus Males
BingoBoingo: ^ Could also be titled "In Sad State of Sad World Largest Market Is Saddest"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, i was thinking maybe it'd be a good move to reform the qntra structure, have outright 10c/word payable for copy for colalborators, do say weekly deedbot payouts or something.
mircea_popescu: i mean, the whole get shares thing is eminently fair, respectful whatever, but evidently the cattle's neither interested nor ready for anything like that.
mircea_popescu: make two tiers, so the editor in chief + i guess whatever others we promote to permanent editorship still has the option to get shares ; but the rest just get a payoff.
mircea_popescu: i guess i'd have to open it a credit line, make a convertible bond, something. still mulling all this over.
BingoBoingo: That's likely to get more interest from the outside. May get the corruption pump going which is kinda what we stalled out on with the Republic as salaryman's hobby.
BingoBoingo out to enjoy some pseudo-winter air and do some mulling
BingoBoingo: But I suspect equity just isn't corrupting enough on its own for the masses
mircea_popescu: anyway, i shall be travelling tomorrow, but we get back on this wed.
mircea_popescu: anybody wanna play the "guess where mp comes up for air next" game btw ?
BingoBoingo: Cool, no rush on this. Let the mulling continue!
BingoBoingo: Imma have to guess Italy of all places
mircea_popescu: fun times!
lobbes: I'ma guess turkey
lobbes: btw BingoBoingo feel free to use my blog as an example of rockchip hosting if you'd like
lobbes: auctionbot also hosted on rockchip
mircea_popescu: ima give a bitcent to the eventual winner (if nobody gets exact location, closest guess counts ; though global designations [ie, zones or countries rather than towns] will be taken at the least-favourable value)
mircea_popescu: re holy shit that get lost, dumbo article is fucking endless.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, https://archive.is/P4cM3 << ahaha, some fucktard FROM FUCKING ROMANIA ?
mircea_popescu: are you kidding me ? romanians are retarded, forget about it.
mircea_popescu: in other antique lulz : http://trilema.com/2014/%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B8-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0/#comment-104059 cutoff meanwhile occured.
mircea_popescu: no doubt fellow is nao king.
BingoBoingo: I'm have to retract the Italian joke and take a wild stab at Minsk