#trilema | 2019-06-29

mp_en_viaje: i just woke up in a roomful of passed out nude sluts

ave1: at time like these I wish I had a store full of good remarks in my head, instead of tons of ways to program a stupid computer

ave1: after a week of failure, a day at the beach awaits

ave1: I think I'm pressing the right buttons on this gcc build but it simply does not work

mp_en_viaje: you will be mentioned in my current article which may have to also be my will.

mp_en_viaje: also, anyone recall the logline where (iirc ben_vulpes ?) described alf being in some sort of oooh, it wasn't manticore, it was valkyrie.

mp_en_viaje: where the fuck's the whole manticore thing coming from then ?!

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the manticore, was yours, was drawing on your www header, 'mp rides the manticore'

asciilifeform if were drawn, prolly would be riding a tortoise or such

mp_en_viaje: iirc that was a reference

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/did-anyone-ever-notice-before-the-pierogi-are-shaped-like-a-twat-no-me-neither/ << Trilema -- Did anyone ever notice before the pierogi are shaped like a twat ? No ? Me neither.

asciilifeform: a++ phototour

BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> where the fuck's the whole manticore thing coming from then ?! << During hanbot's missionary work to tardstalk, the manticore piece was one of the arts commisioned. Don't have the link on hand, but seems like a 2013 thing

asciilifeform: meanwhile in heathen lulz. (sent in by shinohai)

asciilifeform: vintage bonus re above ^ .

asciilifeform: gotta luvv the limba de lemn, as well as the smoke bomb 'ooh it's about broken installations, not factorable moduli, dun listen to terrorists' and 'here's our fix, use our New, Improved, Curated keyserv at ftmea^HH^H^H^Hopenpgp.org' etc

BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2015/ars-gratia-artis-sau-cum-era-or-the-function-and-the-functioning-of-art-part-deux/

BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news and international observers: https://archive.is/6YMHN "Una delegación de observadores internacionales que arribaron a Uruguay para las elecciones internas de los partidos políticos fueron asaltados mientras cenaban en un restaurante" "Entraron cinco o seis encapuchados rompiendo la puerta de vidrio. Todos tenían revólveres y máscaras y algunos escopetas"

asciilifeform: lol, 'helpers' deployed

BingoBoingo: Also one of the minor ferry lines quit https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Cacciola-confirmo-el-cierre-de-la-empresa-por-las-altas-tasas-y-la-devaluacion--uc722735

BingoBoingo: In the saga of the worst sport, futbol. Uruguay was eliminated from the Copa America by Peru in a game where they put the ball in the goal three times during regulation play, none of which counted for various femstate reasons. Lost the 0-0 tie in a sort of coinflip dressed as a shootout.

BingoBoingo: Apparently three of the four other quarterfinals also ended in 0-0 ties

feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/06/29/peso-watch-june-2019/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Peso Watch June 2019

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920314 << too bad. the apparent mutual fixation of usg and ussg at their heights (and the echos of this in their dotage) persuades me that there was something special about both one upon a time.

a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 07:03 mp_en_viaje: trinque, i do not believe you will find such a thing as a useful history of rus' 20th century in this language, like you have say a useful history of the latin centuries 3-5.

trinque: the mircea_popescu/asciilifeform threads are probably the best source historians will have in 3-500 yrs

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-12#1520093 << and so on

a111: Logged on 2016-08-12 22:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-12#1519897 << yes, the us was inconceivably wealthy. i nthat 1985-1990 half decade / 5yrplan it could have literally convinced the globe to do anything. this is ultimate wealth. sadly they decided to use that capital to convince the globe "saddam had nuclear weapons" and "green energy/blabla ecolotardisms and assorted danquayleisms" instead.

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920336 << I assume this means, among other things, that the statal terror (gulag etc) was a necessary part of the peasant-shithole to spacefaring transition?

a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 14:12 asciilifeform: and in epoch 3, 4, whole orchestra of kakobreklas killed entire forests to print nonsense re how 'we did it ~in spite~ of the management', aha.

trinque: I don't even disagree, just drawing it out.

trinque: it's hard to see a way this organized statal terror doesn't become self-licking-icecream-cone, and evidently it did

trinque: do you see this as a management failure, inevitability, inferior stock, other?

asciilifeform: trinque: management ~success~. contrary to western reich Official histories, stalin in fact terminated the self-licking cone.

asciilifeform: installed l. p. beria as grand vizier, who immediately beheaded the leftists who operated lenin's meat grinder, and amnestied 1/3 or so of total prisoner ( hrusch -- murdered beria, let go another 1/3 and took credit for whole thing, and repainted beria as 'cannibal' )

asciilifeform: interestingly, however, meat grinder ~also~ success -- culled peasant herd ( exactly like england had to in 1700s ) and decimated the 'axe handles' in the professional officer corps ( buharin et al, quite ready to serve germany, england, france, in exchange for 'miami' )

asciilifeform: at the risk of oversimplification -- if not for the corpses, ru today would not be easily distinguishable from india.

asciilifeform: i.e. gigatonne of purposeless biomass.

trinque: yep, this part is not in question on my end. uselessness must be filtered.

trinque: it seems like the USSR and USSA narratives broke down at record speed, compared to predecessors.

trinque: asciilifeform: what is it in your view that broke? simply succession? nobody could sit in king stalin's chair?

trinque: (I could see this; fuck's sake, what an empire)

asciilifeform: succession.

asciilifeform: ( and not merely because of the obvious complication, tho it did not help -- e.g. peter also could not find a second one of himself to put in the throne )

a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 18:37 asciilifeform: revolutionaries break vital organ -- mechanism of succession to throne. this almost always gives same pattern. ( and in that light, north kr, for whatever idiocies, is unusual and worth to study , is exception )

trinque brb, dinner.

mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, i thought that was a reference to something prior.

asciilifeform: hrusch incidentally made the irrecoverable idiot move that set up sovok for kindermat -- began exporting petro & other diggables.

asciilifeform: there might have been people who survived winning lottery, but afaik no empire ever did. 'easy money' -- ruin.

asciilifeform: suddenly it 'doesn't matter' that throne is surrounded by sycophants and halfwits, industry run into the ground, etc. 'so long as the pipe keeps gushing'

asciilifeform: is how norway, qatar, et al, ended up as they are.

asciilifeform: on other end of ocean -- entirely possib that rockefeller's petro-era made possible (inevitable?) fdr & co.

asciilifeform: consider, e.g. the persians. ~gigabux of petroexport, and yet when built fissiles refinery -- it ran on comp from 'siemens' and running winblows 'xp'. why ?

trinque: could say life was too easy by the time the pipe gushed, but was the pipe not also gushing in mid-century US?

asciilifeform: cuz evidently no one there can design a 1970s-style computer. or even thing about why. why think, why be friends with yer head, when petropayola.

trinque: yet some methwitch got 3 dudes strapped to an ICBM and fired at the moon

asciilifeform: phunphakt, carrier of sov. prototype of manned moon vehicle -- about 1.5x size of 'apollo' -- exploded on pad. twice (Officially.) and Officially 'for no reason'

trinque: yeah, I'd buy the N1 sabotage hypothesis

asciilifeform: usg philosophy, 'why grow cow, when i can burn down neighbour's barn' was already formed. couldn't carry 4evah, tho, so eventually grew cow.

asciilifeform: reluctantly.

trinque: I don't know about that. I'm meandering toward a point about narrative and the power thereof.

asciilifeform: trinque: the Officially held sov-religion makes approx as much sense to innocent modern ears as, e.g. catholicism. it's imho largely a distraction from the meat.

trinque: nah, what did the Men Doing Things believe in the moment, on either side.

trinque: this is what'd be interesting to know

asciilifeform: they believed roughly same thing as such people believe today. that it is possible to do things, and they're worth doing. 'act from principle'(tm)(r)(mp) & so on.

trinque: act from principle yes, but there appear to be moments where the principles flow, heh, from princeps

asciilifeform: spanish conquerors, pizarro, cortes, et al, had priests on board, exactly like sov submarine had 'polit'. and each Officially sailed in the name of jes^H^H^Hlenin etc. and priest ate and shat and with 0 to show for it. dun mean a thing.

trinque: I doubt this because it conflates the hearts of men and grunts.

asciilifeform: possibly it is possible to do without priest, pirate vessel had none. but pirate vessel also not carrying many conscripts.

asciilifeform: upstack -- imho the rockets flew because overseen by folx who did not take seriously the religious claptrap of 'equality' and in fact believed that the purpose of small man getting to eat is to make possible the work of the great.

trinque: this is what I suspect the two had in common when they were anything to speak about.

asciilifeform: it's what all functioning 'great' had in common.

asciilifeform: and when switches off, 'great' goes out like lightbulb.

trinque: I would've earlier said that the ussa and ussr died quick because technology caused them to hit a complexity limit.

trinque: now I want to say that they died because they made shitty gods.

trinque: look at sad danielpbarron pulling the stick on yhwh

asciilifeform: vikings had some imho quite spiffy gods. where are the vikings now ?

trinque: heh, in all of north yurp, later sat upon by apparent better gods

asciilifeform: incidentally i agree with their pov where 'do you think anything stands 4evah, idiot? all must die, men, kingdoms, worlds'.

trinque: this also

trinque: vikings and their spiffy gods got a great run out of it.

asciilifeform: old - dies, and replaced by young. the least astonishing thing known.

BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I am suspecting it is a conference joke I missed http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/#footnote_2_54005

trinque: danielpbarron: ftr your fixation when fucking is allowed and when it's the naughty is the saddest thing I've ever seen.

trinque: *on

trinque: you found your cock, congrats. I played a better christian dork in my teens than you've ever done.

trinque: asciilifeform: why is it that revolutionaries must break the cycle of succession, rather than simply replace the wheel?

asciilifeform: trinque: ru history knew revolutionaries who tried to carry on the algo of 'i am seekrit hidden pseudo-murdered heir of $monarch!'. some got pretty far, e.g. pugachev, but all ended up on chopping block.

trinque: hm, so this is in-world magic that had to be undone. fatal then, for sure.

trinque: stalin had 3 decades; that's time enough to beat on the head of a protege

asciilifeform: he had protege -- beria.

trinque: why didn't he end up in the chair?

asciilifeform: didn't make the finally final exam, is all.

asciilifeform: ended up. but -- and oddly to the uninitiated ear.. man was -- soft. he had a month or so to behead hrusch et al, didn't behead.

asciilifeform: so lost instead his.

trinque: soft because insufficiently head-beaten, or what was the weakness

asciilifeform: near as, without time machine, i can tell -- spared'em because believed that his succession would be recognized by his peers.

asciilifeform: it was not. they were waiting, patiently (or not, to this day no one ruled out poison) for the old man to die, so to claim their miamis.

trinque: et tu brute then

asciilifeform: hrusch et al , partook in all of stalin's works, the sexy and the unsexy, and murdered successor, and pinned the 'unsexy' on him, and on the dead emperor, and 'look, western reich, we are civilized folx! let us into miami'

trinque: the miami meme is still a little lost on me, born as I was in FL, shithole supreme.

asciilifeform: the mythological miami.

trinque: but I guess it was permavacation to the outside, 80s partying

BingoBoingo: Down here Miami is bigger than New York

asciilifeform: understand, congenital disease of orc, is to envy the western rome, 'where streets are clean, lifts -- unpissed, women -- as on cover of 'playboy''

asciilifeform: it's a shared mythology made possible in part by expert propagandists in w. reich , hollywood et al, and by orc's desire to believe in an earthly paradise

asciilifeform: !#s vhs america

a111: 19 results for "vhs america", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=vhs%20america

asciilifeform: ^ see also

asciilifeform: among thinking folx in modern ru , 'miami usa' is often derisively referred to as 'valinor' , after the distant land tolkien's elves decamped to when shit hit the fan in their world

asciilifeform: ( and, the folx who salivate for the miami -- nicknamed, unsurprisingly, 'elves' )

trinque: BingoBoingo: like "someday I'll post such a great pic on instagram I'll have the likes to buy a flat in miami" or what

trinque: asciilifeform: back on the subj of gods, ever read Jaynes' Origin of Consciousness?

trinque: the operative hypothesis on my end is that 20th century powers invested their narrative power in men, and when they died, narrative died also.

asciilifeform: trinque: did not read

trinque: this isn't an implicit proposal to return to the past, just a finger pointing at the void

trinque: asciilifeform: hypothesis is well summarized in a mircea_popescu trilema post I'll find

trinque: http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/

asciilifeform: aand in n. stevenson's 'snow crash', for that matter

trinque: you know, that one has been on my list too long. I'll move it up.

trinque: but anyhow, perhaps humans stuck things in the gods that needed to mind the gap.

trinque: and perhaps the "hurr god doesn't real, now I can masturbate in peace" thing isn't the best place to park the head.

asciilifeform bbl:meats

BingoBoingo: trinque: As in the place they fixate on as "having made it"

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: really gets into the pathology

trinque: yeh, heaven on earth is the most decadent shit I've ever heard.

BingoBoingo: But all they know is the glossy print. Nevermind living in better places already.

BingoBoingo: Miami's also the place where the folks with money here go shopping which probably ads to the mythology