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feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/06/building-ave1gnat-for-mipsel-sf/ << bvt's backtrace -- Building ave1gnat for mipsel-sf
mp_en_viaje: trinque, i do not believe you will find such a thing as a useful history of rus' 20th century in this language, like you have say a useful history of the latin centuries 3-5.
mp_en_viaje: nor does this exist in russian, to my knowledge. nor in romanian -- there are fragmentary bits that are useful -- to the very finely informed. no synthesis, however.
mp_en_viaje: the only apptroach available, short of learning russian, polish, romanian, german, and going blind on reconstructive work through archives and choice secondary sources (chosen how ?) -- which is precisely what "we"'ve done, if passively and over time nevertheless still to the tune of thousands of hours, the difference between one "from there" and "not from there" is like the difference between "familiar with windows" and "unfamiliar" : it's not l
mp_en_viaje: ike the former read the one true book as there isn't such a thing, it's that the former spent days upon days and weeks and weeks and years fucking around with a broken thing and its disparate legs and probiscii -- would be picking up sheila fitzpatrick's swansong (revisionism in soviet history).
mp_en_viaje: you can read as much of its links and references as you have the time / stomach / patience for ; you will not become knowledgeable thereby, but you will become more capable of distinguishing between useful and useless source material than you are now, and importantly : capable enough to trust yourself (though to some degree you're evidently capable even now, i suspect the absence of that last element's what irks you).
mp_en_viaje: after that, things will snap into meaning as time goes by and you happen to read things, which is exactly what a local intelectual (or however you'd call the cultural dominant class) does anyway.
mp_en_viaje: but, fundamentally, what you ask for doesn't exist because the russkis are morons ; and not a little morons, as in neglectful. they're thoroughly and fractally fucked in the head, and thereby they've made for themselves such a history of the 20th century, ~through fucking living it~ as no sane human being could readily follow.
mp_en_viaje: (perhaps also worth the mention : soviets have the cult of the memoir, and they generally do a much better, or at least differently broken job than the current ustards, who are similarily afflicted. both kosigin [soviet economic main man, a sorta ru isarescu] and gromyko [ur-diplomat of teh soviet union, so strong he's broken into popcult] wrote memoirs ; they're prolly the highest payoff per time sp
mp_en_viaje: ent source material available when starting out)
mp_en_viaje: and omfg holy shit phf's thing handles nested bracketing. dude this is so pleasant....
mp_en_viaje: this is what "just works" fucking means even, that whoever did it did it right the first pass and you don't have to keep debugging all the corners
asciilifeform: re the histories -- this is esp. diff subject not the least bit because of systematic falsification.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 18:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: puzzlers like those, make e.g. bolix look trivial ( consider, bolix physically exists and is sitting in asciilifeform's tortureroom , whereas beria et al's docs were afaik carefully burned )
asciilifeform: good chunks of which, incidentally, the 'western narrative' bought into -- 'hook, line, and sinker', e.g. the Official nato reich history of stalin era takes hrusch's revisionism at 100% face value
asciilifeform: on top of this, add the fact that sovok was really 4 separate items, as diff. as e.g. roman 'kings' period vs republic vs empire : 1) lenin epoch 2) stalin 3) hrusch 4) 'stagnation' and wrap-up.
asciilifeform: in each, 'wot' from previous epoch entirely rebuilt, most of the playing characters from prev. epoch -- exit stage.
asciilifeform: ( western reich, lulzily, also bought hook, line, and sinker into sovok's internal mythology of contiguity of 1-4 , a patently ridiculous proposition )
asciilifeform: china -- did not buy. which is no small part of on the map there is still today a 'china', and not 37 bantustans or whatever the reich's replacement project would've consisted of
asciilifeform: *of why
asciilifeform: re: the memoirs -- ~90% of asciilifeform's bedtime reading for 10+ yrs nao. but found much moar value in the memoirs of ~people who did things, with own hands~, chemists, tank commanders, pilots, etc, than in the 'famous in west' power players, which invariably have the flavour of 'i am kako, once was great but unjustly dethroned, read my butthurts!'
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's approach to sovology is based on simple fact -- we're speaking of folx who ~did things~. and specifically, they (1) went from agrarian shithole, on the level of korea circa 1900s, to industrial power equal to any in europistan ; repelled invasion of ~whole combined 'civilized' world, then built bomb to drive home the lesson for the unteachable (2) ; took concept of space flight from fiction to fact (also largely 2, th
asciilifeform: o 3 took credit)
asciilifeform: and in epoch 3, 4, whole orchestra of kakobreklas killed entire forests to print nonsense re how 'we did it ~in spite~ of the management', aha.
asciilifeform: as for the peanut gallery folx, unsurprisingly idjit konsoomer likes to remember 'no jeans' but somehow prefers not to remember the 6 weeks of vacation, rent-free flat, or for that matter the culture of literacy where e.g. publication like 'kvant', with topology, theory of computability, etc. puzzlers , of top quality and for popular! audience
asciilifeform: or for that matter the research culture that was the butthurt envy of entire 'civilized world' (as late as '90, pentagon spent $B's on translations, from which cribbed all sortsa material, e.g. 'stealth airplane' )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform says : fuck the jeans. with red hot poker. i'll happily give back the jeans. gimme back 'kvant' and 0 rent.
asciilifeform: as for the '80s denouement -- see also thrd.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:42 asciilifeform: does anyone recall old thrd where mircea_popescu linked to a youtube clip of some idiot kid smashing up ancient car that his father gave him, 'cuz not mercedes' ?
asciilifeform brb:teatime.
asciilifeform: in re: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920320 , i find the 'civilized' world's pov re sovok to be profoundly schizoid, and quite reminiscent of e.g. hitler's of the j00z -- i.e. somehow simultaneously 'imbeciles, incapable of constructive work' and 'devilish genius that controls world'
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 07:12 mp_en_viaje: but, fundamentally, what you ask for doesn't exist because the russkis are morons ; and not a little morons, as in neglectful. they're thoroughly and fractally fucked in the head, and thereby they've made for themselves such a history of the 20th century, ~through fucking living it~ as no sane human being could readily follow.
asciilifeform: for half century whole 'civilized world' trained for replay of ww2, and shat pants with fear. of whom, exactly, of 'fractally fucked morons' ? who fears moron, and why ?
asciilifeform: and for that matter, why is it possible for 'tomahawk', built by finest reagan-era 'civilized' beings, to be shot with rocket little different from what was designed during reign of stalin ?
asciilifeform: esp. given where the latter 'by morons'
BingoBoingo: Not so different from the cognitive dissonance that makes Pashtuns thing pants are shit over as they fight empire to stalemate on all fronts.
BingoBoingo: The Pashtun stalement is enough to make Hilary O Bolton desperate to aggress a state adversary, any state adversary at all.
asciilifeform: stalemate ?
asciilifeform: afaik plain ol' checkmate. usg goes to afghan to pay tribute.
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't call it quite a full checkmate. USG presently has a couple fortified points from which it can dispatch material for destruction thereby creating the "need" to buy more material to keep the MI bezzle loop looped
BingoBoingo: And I suspect they are paying less tribute and purchasing more opium for the suburbs
asciilifeform: iirc the forts are where tribute is being paid on schedule. elsewhere, wiped out.
BingoBoingo: Well, is the CIA recieving its drugs or not?
asciilifeform: i thought cia specialized in coca
BingoBoingo: That is not what the overdose thing 2001-now suggests.
asciilifeform: 2001-nao, at least in usa, is typically on synthetics
BingoBoingo: Well it started with the oxycodone and prescription stuff which got grossly restricted when the Afghan intervention started. The addicts turned to heroin.
BingoBoingo: The recent synthetics is a Chinese move into the US market
asciilifeform: (from usg's pov -- afghan was to be conquered so to expand supply of heroin into ru, rather than to bring across the ocean)
BingoBoingo: Well, it was to expand the supply of heroin. The question of "Where?" changed
asciilifeform: it has own idea of 'for where', perhaps. i suspect mp_en_viaje knows moar on subj, might say when wakes up.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, it appears CIA has no qualms about marketing whatever drugs it can. During Nam they marketed heroin in the US as well. When they lost flights from SEA they went full bore into coca.
mp_en_viaje: in other news, god i fucking love poland
mp_en_viaje: i should prolly publish pics of this apt, it's something else too.
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> in other news, god i fucking love poland << Land of tits and ass?
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i suspect that cia selling dope ~in usa~ really is 'employees using office equp. for personal gain', rather than political project. consider, you have fleet of seekrit planes, airstrips, 0 customs inspections, how couldja ~not~ traffic dope )
asciilifeform: ohai mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform pretty curious whether poland is naodays ~empty-but-for-usg-tank-brigades like baltics, or still populated
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, it's the eastern hound, tall chicks, nice bone structure, some tits and ass but nothing latino/jewish
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, absolutely not. us barely even figures here.
asciilifeform: pretty sure last surviving j00z in pl died in 1980 or so
mp_en_viaje: much like "african"-american ie some douche who's 1/16th african, so "jewish" here.
asciilifeform: lol like 'scottsmen' in usa
asciilifeform: they have clubs & all, complete w/ bagpipe
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:41 mircea_popescu: but yes, alladin carries a pretty fucking strong scent of "oh, hi, we're ohioan squarejaws wearing bedsheets. totally legit rome sir. rome, ohio."
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920337 << the culture of literacy is possibly the largest lost point. yes, at a time on this very planet and within my own personal memory. in ye glory days of the 70s you could, literally, stop people in the street with whatever interesting math problem, and they'd drop whatever the fuck they were doing and seek a solution out o
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 14:23 asciilifeform: as for the peanut gallery folx, unsurprisingly idjit konsoomer likes to remember 'no jeans' but somehow prefers not to remember the 6 weeks of vacation, rent-free flat, or for that matter the culture of literacy where e.g. publication like 'kvant', with topology, theory of computability, etc. puzzlers , of top quality and for popular! audience
mp_en_viaje: f a very internalized sense of duty, like a saint bernard next to a freezing person. "this can not stand"
mp_en_viaje: the typically ustardian notion that it's acceptable to not know, to not understand, to not care even was entirely unknown ; that "i dunno man, i just work here" typical redditism entirely repressed, socially inacceptable and universally deemed morally reprehensible.
mp_en_viaje: (unless, of course, one was blue collar, with no university degree even. then one was not a person, simply put)
asciilifeform: admittedly mp_en_viaje grew up in cluj and not in muhosransk. but the general pattern held. in sovok folx collected bottles, newsprint, to trade for buying b00kz.
mp_en_viaje: right.
asciilifeform: for the subhumans, rotgut was available in qty, made'em vehehery easy to distinguish from actual people from a cannon's shot distance
mp_en_viaje: i once passed an exam (whatever, highschool term paper) because i introduced as a lemma a clearly absurd geometrical proof ("all straight angles are obtuse") and then on the basis of this 1=2 proceeded to prove the question at hand. the teacher a) gave me full points because couldn't spot the error in the absurdity and then b) took sick leave the next day
mp_en_viaje: and THEN re=emerged 3rd day to ha-HA!
mp_en_viaje: because the guy's loyalty was to the fucking truth of the matter, and to intellectual excellence, rather than to a 3 ring binder, and his petty habits and inhabituations of schedule.
asciilifeform: i recall this tale
mp_en_viaje: ~THIS~ is very much a central aspect of such a culture of literacy
mp_en_viaje: as opposed to a culture of whatever the fuck this "our company policy" bullshit is.
mp_en_viaje: people cared deeply about obscure points of literary theory, topology, solid state physics and whatnot in a manner typical of the time, too -- greenwich village beatniks ~synchronously did ~same thing [minus, of course, a parental state to force them to also work]
mp_en_viaje: (and, therefore, also minus numeracy, but w/e, colonies)
asciilifeform: culture-of-literacy was pervasive, and such that is even difficult to describe to the uninitiated today. e.g. virtually ALL manufactured objects of any complexity came with schematics, exactly like e.g. FG today
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 18:20 asciilifeform: when you bought a e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896849 , got moar schematics than ~anyone knew what to do with , right in the box . but when buy ipnoje, what you really buy is... what? the privilege to pay crapple for next 1 in 6 mo...
asciilifeform: from 'volga' auto to bk0010 micro-pdp.
asciilifeform: the last, iirc, western reich item asciilifeform bought that came with schems, was... commodore-64.
asciilifeform: re philology i am less equipped to comment, but consider a typical philologic puzzler from 'science&life' in 1980s, from asciilifeform's own b00kcase -- here's a passage in $obscurelang (kazah, chukcha, chechen), here's defs of 6 words. nao answer these-here q's re the text...
asciilifeform: afaik the last english periodical for intelligent non-professional who 'friends with his head' , was 'scientific american'. i have a set of these here, 1960-1990. pretty good, but no comparison with e.g. 'kvant'.
asciilifeform: in re kindergarten education, otoh -- typical sovok schoolboy could draw a reasonably-exact map of europe, asia, americas. from memory. when was the time when western reich schoolboy could do this ?
asciilifeform: i've spoken to coupla dozen d00dz in usa who went to iraq. all admitted to having had ~0 notion of where on the globe it was, prior to trip.
asciilifeform: radius of error typically was such that could put asciilifeform's home town into iraq.
BingoBoingo: In other news, yet another e-scooter livery spotted today to serve the almost non-existent market for such things
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why, i wonder, nonexistent ? chinese electrothing will take you across whole montevideo 3-4x on 1 charge
asciilifeform: and w/out the smoke of petrol, or cleaning carb, swapping filters, oil, etc
asciilifeform: iirc BingoBoingo once maintained small petrol engines, knows the hell
asciilifeform recently swapped carb on grass cutter, took most of a day
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The catch is these are the rent to rides and they charge by the minute.
asciilifeform: aa ~those~ things
asciilifeform: where you have to stand on a plank
asciilifeform: ridiculous
asciilifeform: i thought was re motorcycles.
BingoBoingo: Essentially it is a reverse parking meter with wheels
BingoBoingo: nah, the electric bike-ish things are slow coming in but I do see more.
asciilifeform: those, actually make sense. small carb engines, suck.
asciilifeform: and lithium phosphate battery nao pretty cheap.
asciilifeform: they laugh at temp extremes, too.
BingoBoingo: But the flood of electric shitboards is ~litter. No idea how any single one of the company expects to make ROI on them. Not with the casualty rate.
asciilifeform: i dunget the appeal of the shitboard. why wouldja want to stand on plank ? i got tired of it as 5yo
BingoBoingo: The only thing I can guess is that someone's burning "Venture" funds just to see what happens when they try turkey dollar expenditures
asciilifeform: i suspect plain ol' orc stupidity, blindly copying usa fashions
asciilifeform: is how, per mp_en_viaje's norway piece, they end up with 'yesterday's shirts' etc
BingoBoingo: Well the first firm was "Mexican" second was Silicon Valley's "Lime" Haven't looked into the newest yet, but likely more Californitards
mp_en_viaje: in all truth http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920343 is ALSO true. they're true symultaneously, ask me not "how can this be". it can be.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 15:26 asciilifeform: in re: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920320 , i find the 'civilized' world's pov re sovok to be profoundly schizoid, and quite reminiscent of e.g. hitler's of the j00z -- i.e. somehow simultaneously 'imbeciles, incapable of constructive work' and 'devilish genius that controls world'
mp_en_viaje: somehow, it can be.
asciilifeform: wave/particle lul
mp_en_viaje: also the epistemic sign of "we have no fucking idea wtf's going on there"
asciilifeform: the strongest such sign of all possible.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920345 << strictly speaking, "imbecile" and "dangerous" not mutually exclusive.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 15:27 asciilifeform: for half century whole 'civilized world' trained for replay of ww2, and shat pants with fear. of whom, exactly, of 'fractally fucked morons' ? who fears moron, and why ?
mp_en_viaje: esp for the owners of china shops.
asciilifeform: in theory. in practice, zulu not dangerous to china shop of london.
BingoBoingo: Maybe not in 1819, in 2019...
mp_en_viaje: (the reference here is : all dying cultures are china shops. they become reflexive as they become sterile ; no longer capable of distinguishing the important from the inconsequential, they aim to machinally "preserve" themselves.)
asciilifeform: i recall at one pt in mp_en_viaje's www there was 'mediocrity -- intelligence wholly consumed by self-preservation' or how it went.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920347 << you know, it's really not my fault sovoks couldn't actually stand the thing they built, 4 times in 50 years.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 15:29 asciilifeform: esp. given where the latter 'by morons'
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it's still in the trilema byline rotation.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/06/most-of-the-us-pharmacopoeia-carries-dementia-risk-with-chronic-use/ << Qntra -- Most Of The US Pharmacopoeia Carries Dementia Risk With Chronic Use
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's rather like to say 'rome couldn't stand what it has built 4 times'.
BingoBoingo: ^ Relatit, quick fix culture has a cost
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, "dementia risk" as used there is simply the result of longer life spans. the brain decays, all successful medicine carries the risk of dementia in this sense.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you seriously dun see what i'm saying, or are you just pissed off ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: not the least bit pissed off. simply must point out that to frame as 'they could not stand' is mistake, it aint as if villagers with pitchforks swapped sovok-1 for sovok-2 , or 2 for 3, etc
mp_en_viaje: no, nobody cares about the dorks outside oxford. the monkery itself, just gave up on its own shit. multiple times.
asciilifeform: each went bust for reasons wholly unrelated to 'the beoble' and what they 'could/could not stand'
mp_en_viaje: and it's not a technological discussion. it's a matter of philosophy, as in, internalized worldviews.
asciilifeform: revolutionaries break vital organ -- mechanism of succession to throne. this almost always gives same pattern. ( and in that light, north kr, for whatever idiocies, is unusual and worth to study , is exception )
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: In this case it seems to be dementia hitting at younger portions of the extended life span. Could be the ones affected younger are more defective. Dementia though tends to be a rot of the cholinergic system.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920369 << yes, but that's also all that's left of cia -- employees using for personal gain. much like sovok industry cca 1985
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 15:58 asciilifeform: ( fwiw i suspect that cia selling dope ~in usa~ really is 'employees using office equp. for personal gain', rather than political project. consider, you have fleet of seekrit planes, airstrips, 0 customs inspections, how couldja ~not~ traffic dope )
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, exactly that's my theory : split 1 : a1 the ones helped / b1 the ones that didn't need help ; split 2 : a2 the ones demented ; b2 the ones not demented. the idea is a1 a2 are ~same, and in this context you can't pretend they're "a population". they're two.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mp_en_viaje : incidentally nicotine is iirc muscarinic ~agonist~ , and so suggests that from decline of tobacco comes guess what else
mp_en_viaje: entirely possible, they'll end up with a pile of dementia as a result of smoke bans.
mp_en_viaje: actual ~increase~ in cancer notwithstanding significant drop in smoking, so exact opposite of what was promised ; and also spike in dementia. sounds almost exactly like pantsuit awareness raising campaign.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: already 'ended up' . in usa already serious shortage of folx specializing in care of zombies
asciilifeform: ( 1 of the few rapidly expanding 'industries' in fact )
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I'm inclined to believe the split happens as described, but given the marketing of medicine in the US can't rule out some dorks taking benadryl for daytime allergies, Prozac for their sexless depression, and other benadryl for sleep chemically shaping their brain into dementia
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920398 << and people read them, and sent observations in, and oft got responses. the one thing uniting http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/#selection-8873.126-8873.288 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1741883 is this culture of cluefulness.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 16:59 asciilifeform: culture-of-literacy was pervasive, and such that is even difficult to describe to the uninitiated today. e.g. virtually ALL manufactured objects of any complexity came with schematics, exactly like e.g. FG today
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 00:50 mircea_popescu: but take this forinstance : thorouyghly hated politician active these days MADE his own fucking ARO (70s romanian SUV). OUT OF PARTS. WHICH HE BOUGTH.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, entirely possible, i agee.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 00:50 mircea_popescu: people did that sort of thing, back then. and all the fuckbook tards who paint the dude (rightfully or not, i don't give a shit) as the summum malum never as much as put together a fucking lego box.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, sure as fuck my father's oltcit came with complete manual, incl parts inventory, description, etc. you could have MADE one, if had the cnc mills and patience.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it was pretty common for sovok folx, of all stripes such that could afford summer house, to build w/ own hands
BingoBoingo: Winner gene combinations and loser gene combinations, still either can be drugged into greater loserdom.
mp_en_viaje still makes his own computers.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i still recall a time when ~errybody with pc compat 'made' in this sense
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 17:06 asciilifeform: afaik the last english periodical for intelligent non-professional who 'friends with his head' , was 'scientific american'. i have a set of these here, 1960-1990. pretty good, but no comparison with e.g. 'kvant'.
asciilifeform: 'why wouldja pay someone to screw in mobo, you don't have screwdriver ? or hands? what is it you dun have'
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it's still that time.
asciilifeform: even the lappies here in torture room aint 'as came from factory', pretty much all needed nic swap at least
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920406 << remember that shit when various ustards from atlanta were alarmed at russian invasion of georgia ?
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 17:10 asciilifeform: radius of error typically was such that could put asciilifeform's home town into iraq.
mp_en_viaje: data scientists, architects and etc. what can you do.
asciilifeform: hind-gut fermenters. (tm)(r)(al schwartz)
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 17:42 BingoBoingo: Essentially it is a reverse parking meter with wheels
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-27#1920422 << whole of both oslo and warsaw littered with the abandoned shits.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 17:43 BingoBoingo: But the flood of electric shitboards is ~litter. No idea how any single one of the company expects to make ROI on them. Not with the casualty rate.
mp_en_viaje: i think people just step off and leave once out of charge ?
asciilifeform: or when out of coin
BingoBoingo: There's folks who come by with motorcycle-trucks in the night to collect them for recharging here
mp_en_viaje: well anyways, ima go nightlife.
BingoBoingo: Like clockwork, everynight, and everynight they come earlier for the scooters.
BingoBoingo: Have fun
BingoBoingo: But yes, whether a scooter got used or not during the day it is night collected for charging.
BingoBoingo: Probably more money could have been had building them with a substantial column lock and marketing them for 18 cuatos of XXXX pesos
BingoBoingo: But like US rental property disease, rarely have people paid (or declined to pay) more for less
asciilifeform: who the fuck even wants plank scooter, aside from 5yo boy. even for phree
asciilifeform: it makes bicycle look practical an' user-friendly
asciilifeform bbl:ttime
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/06/27/last-days-before-the-party-internal/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Last Days Before The Party Internal
BingoBoingo: "El subsecretario de Relaciones Exteriores de Uruguay, Ariel Bergamino, anunció este jueves el retiro nuestro país de la 49 Asamblea General de la OEA en rechazo a la presencia de una delegación de representantes de Juan Guaidó en la asamblea como representantes de Venezuela. "
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