Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, as stated, question is unanswerable. the best i can do for you towards fixing it is working by simile. consider the case of british or french in zululand : had they opted to re-implement troglodyte matriarchy "with some fixes", the result would have been present day ourdemocracy three centuries prior.
mp_en_viaje: they opted instead to entirely ignore "the established institutions
mp_en_viaje: of the fucktarded morons "who lawfully and since forever laid claim to the earh"
mp_en_viaje: rather than "continue zulu forms under british flag", they introduced torens title and the land register, and steel hulled shipping, and dutch notions of trade and german legal notions and so forth.
mp_en_viaje: yes, all the might and glory of the very best fruits this earth ever produced eventually regressed to the filth of cunthood. once you stop killing women such that most are either dead before menopause or else lived their entire life marginalized, and instead start asking them to run things, from the local hotel to the local police station or dog pound, you get what you necessarily get.
mp_en_viaje: but ~before~ you get that, and until you start getting that, you instead enjoy colonialism, aka justice (in the only proper sense), aka http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908880
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 21:02 asciilifeform salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc
mp_en_viaje: so proceeding by similarity : the chinese ~could have~ done what we do, except decades earlier, and as a result ~truly~ confiscated intellectual activity from pantsuit morons.
mp_en_viaje: instead, they opted to waste all that time and all those resources, on the dubious task of obtaining the moron's "blessing" through some piddly-ass "continuity" understood as "let's just do the same old stupid with serials filed off, who can tell ?"
mp_en_viaje: there's two kids in the "prodigal son" fable. one's the moron that stays home, and aspires for his dad to give him the blessing of dadhood, and of manhood, and everything else, through fucking laying of the hands. that's the fucktard's idea, that he'll stay home with dad and pray that the substance of dad be bestowed upon him through fucking vegetative process. like a woman's exactly!
mp_en_viaje: there's only one fat calf, and this stupid cunt DOES NOT GET IT.
mp_en_viaje: the chinese stayed home. bad call.
mp_en_viaje: the people who stay home are the people who never discover the fucking pinoy sailed all the way to discovering zanzibar.
mp_en_viaje: the other half of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669201 to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900871 is that the pantsuit are vehehehery impressed, and as flattered as could be, by their observation that the chinese very much want their approval, and to not "rock the boat", and other such inept notions that ensure china ~never mattered historically, in spite of milennia of cvasi-organised life. yet, cvas
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 17:32 mircea_popescu: no wonder pantsuit party has no substantial disagreement with china becoming dominating power. they watch that inept chinese writing method and get wet.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-07 22:33 mircea_popescu: this is the truth pantsuit vehehehery carefully tiptoes around every time they're "discussing" usg's foreign policy outlay : usg is a chinese vassal, it has to ask for permission.
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 03:19 mircea_popescu: consider that china had helicopter designs cca 500ad, it had known of gunpowder for 3k years by the time we finally heard of it and they were writing alchemy treatises before homer was even walking the earth.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908971 << because you get somthing for this. "why would white man wish to turn subsitence farming into mass market ???" "because this way, the only red skins left are in erotica, drawn by white hands."
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:26 asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
mp_en_viaje: white man did this, shot all the fucking bison. they did.
mp_en_viaje: why did they do it ?
mp_en_viaje: "to solve the indian question".
mp_en_viaje: this is how you solve the fucking moron question, all the time : turn the stuff of its very life into m3 screw.
mp_en_viaje: chinese could've solved the white question, AND SHOULD HAVE.
mp_en_viaje: in any case ima fucking solve the chinese question as soon as i get my hands on them.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908978 << quite. who the fuck wants to compete with the redskins AS A REDSKIN. let them fucking die out, jesus.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:40 asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, that wouldn't be fair!!!". quite. who the fuck ever played fair and wasn't a complete and utter moron ? women play fair, and women only. but they're biologically constrained to this, they ony do it because they're trying to get pregnant. i'm not trying to get pregnant.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908982 << im sure it is, and im sure the 4 "sons" who happen to be daughters in alt-daughter bodies married 4 other women, either natural or artificial, and are sitting there spawning for an activity.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:45 asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
mp_en_viaje: because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the sluts are up (how the fuck can they be up at 6 am after being marched all over town yest is anyone's guess, but facts be facts) so ima take them for a nude hotel photoshoot. bbl.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908845 -> mostly in the posts/explanations; hence my "I do not use " - as I go through it, I keep to "most junior on the right" to avoid tripping over, that's all.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:28 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: possibly asciilifeform is odd in this respect, but can rotate things around axis of symmetry w/out really thinking about it, possibly this leads to the sort of thing that irritated diana_coman
asciilifeform: drew the e.g. ch10 'electrical' illustrations 'in reverse' w/out even noticing ( and apparently diana_coman is 1st to notice )
asciilifeform: it is entirely possible tho , to grasp the material w/out them ( diana_coman apparently did -- or used a mirror ? i do not know )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909021 << afaik cockroaches have not yet invented romulusing. yet there they are, happily living errywhere incl. chernobyl zone.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-18 04:38 mp_en_viaje: because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what didja use to make the flow graph in http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: Dia; if you want them, I can upload the .dia files too
diana_coman: come to think of it, they might be useful if anyone wants to tinker them to clearer format or anything; brb
diana_coman: re flipping them in one's head: I'm sure it comes with practice but I'm not yet there; and yes, it's more of my shortcoming that I keep tripping on this but atm this is how it is; generally speaking I don't think the ideal is to think in terms of role rather than (any) direction but there are the (historical as you noted) left/right shift/rotate which inevitably still bring direction in for me.
diana_coman: I meant: I think the ideal is role rather than direction; sigh.
diana_coman goes back to eulorism for now.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, i looked through my paper notes and found that often enuff i draw registers in both directions, depending on what was convenient to fit other things on the pg.
asciilifeform: ( but at the same time 'shl' and 'shr' in same only ever refer to their conventional meaning, n*=2 and n/=2 respectively )
asciilifeform: the historical meaning ( and iirc diana_coman pointed this out in the piece ) is simply from how european writes a number, left to right, e.g. 10, bin 1010 >> 1 is 101 (5) , the motion being to the right
BingoBoingo: In local "Florida Man" (Except in Rio Negro because the local Florida is boring) https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-ladron-de-la-mascara-de-hulk-que-tiene-en-vilo-a-young-201941718159
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to snarf http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908836 , ty
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:55 diana_coman: asciilifeform: my sigs for ch9-ch11 are at http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-693.0-755.49
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << I have updated deedbot's rolls to reflect. Congrats to bvt and Mocky !
bvt: thank you, this is a great honor to me
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908842 << Thank you! Yeah, caught a glimpse of this, very nice graphs indeed, diana_coman.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:20 asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
asciilifeform: mod6: outta curiosity, didja have same headache as diana_coman , with the left-right diagrams ?
asciilifeform: ( so far no one else mentioned it in the log, but i have nfi whether because wasn't headache-inducing, or no one read far enuff in other than diana_coman )
asciilifeform: i'ma add this to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 file, btw : if there existed actual programmatic diagram tool, who wants mirrored could simply push button an' flip. ( as it is, thing is 100% laboriously -- as in months of fiddling -- hand-drawn )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-12 19:57 asciilifeform: 'you thought you could put little arrows from one place to another in'em without hand-diddling coordinates for each one ?'
mod6: Seems ok to me on my horiz display, and seems to also be ok on vert on a mobile browser
a111: Logged on 2019-04-18 14:05 asciilifeform: diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
mod6: oh! /me looks
mod6: Thanks, so yeah, her post is in my queue to read. But I have seen the above diagram before ^, and it looked "ok" to me, but I haven't read that far ahead yet.
mod6: I'll be sure to point out anything in chapters that makes me feel like I'm doing disproportionate mental-gymnastics for sure.
mod6: You want me to screen shot it so you can see what I'm seeing?
asciilifeform: no reason to, it oughta look same on errybody's display, that wasn't the q
mod6: lol, sorry, I was just trying to update quick and go. lemme dig into what you're really asking me here.
asciilifeform: no hurry mod6 , it'll make sense once you eat diana_coman's piece
mod6: Ah, ok then cool. I'll report back once I read it. cheers!
mod6: alright, I've read the article, so I see what you're referring to now.
mod6: And before I comment a whole bunch further, her notes make me rethink what I had thought I had known about. So I'll try to grab some time soon and load these things back into my head.
mod6: Ok, so maybe you can help me out here. I always looked at an FZ as an array of Words, or a Stack if one prefers to look at it this way. Where, if I'm going to make an FZ number '4', it would be set in the array like (i'll use 4 bits per word to save space):
mod6: [0100] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000]
mod6: where '0100' is in the 0-ith array position, or if one were to look at it this way, the bottom of the stack, or the left.
mod6: So if what I had previously believed above is true, and it would seem to considering my understanding of FZ_Add for instance, then "most junior bits on the left" makes sense to me, but "FZ_Get_Head" seems perhaps a bit confusing. Although, when I typically "getHead()" or "getTail()" I expect to get the 0-ith index, or the nth, respectively.
mod6: So, I guess I thought I had all of it making sense in my mind. But tell me if I'm wrong! Then I'll have to re-read that first chapter again with my misunderstandings corrected.
asciilifeform: mod6: ideally array syntax would allow the array range to be declared subtype Word_Count is Indices range Indices'Last .. 1; , and for the '1' to be 'first' pos. then would be consistent with the trad shl/shr 'geometry'.
asciilifeform: but neither ada nor anyffin else, does this.
asciilifeform: i gotta admit tho, that the 'oh noez, array isn't drawn with the junior bits at the right' thing never bothered me.
mod6: I try to keep it in my mind that this is an ~array~ of words. And in my head, arrays grow left to right. Or bottom up.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/committed-to-form-tripoli-issues-arrest-warrant-for-apparent-de-facto-sovereign-haftar/ << Qntra -- Committed To Form: Tripoli Issues Arrest Warrant For Apparent De Facto Sovereign Haftar
asciilifeform: mod6: the 'left' and 'right' in array are imaginary.
asciilifeform: there is not a physical left or right that actually corresponds to it.
asciilifeform: often enuff the bits are stored interleaved via some satanic scheme, and aint even contiguous on a single die or ram stick etc
asciilifeform: the q, if there even is a q, is re what convention of order to write array range in. ada forces the low-to-high left-to-right.
asciilifeform: which is opposite of how one usually writes bit positions, and annoys some folx ( e.g. diana_coman )
mod6: I totally see her point.
mod6: Because normally, that same number, on paper, would be: 00000000000000000000000000000100
mod6: (little endian style)
asciilifeform: actually 'endianism' dun belong in the discussion at all, and it is serious mistake to include it -- it refers to how ~bytes~ are positioned in byte-addressable machines
asciilifeform: has 0 effect on where 'bit 0' is
asciilifeform: bit 0 is the 'ones' bit , on errything built from 1958 or so to present day
asciilifeform: i'll add, however, that ffa does not use byte-addressing or bit-addressing, if you were to build a machine where either is in whatever direction, and write a (standard-compliant) ada for it, ffa will work same way.
asciilifeform: cuz it doesn't use 'gimme n-th bit' instruction, nor 'gimme n-th byte', anywhere.
mod6: Well, fwiw, I'm trying to not load in any Cisms or other pantsuit liquidshit into my understanding of FFA. So when reading it, I'm trying to approach it somewhat like a babe. And I thought that I had it at least, mentally fitting in my head the way it is today.
mod6: However, if it changes, I'll just re-arrange it in my mind.
asciilifeform: mod6: 'x and 1' gives you the 1s bit, dun matter what yer iron is made of
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
asciilifeform: to sum up the thread, asciilifeform's 'official' position is that this entire subj is exactly naggum's 'tooth licking' -- it is problem only if someone fixates on thinking of it as problem.
asciilifeform: there's no 'endianism' in the proggy, there is not a possibility that tape written on 1 box is interpreted differently on another, by design. this is the beginning and end imho of correct approach to the q.
asciilifeform: folx who dun like that ada asks you to write arrays low ... high , can make own lang and write arithmetron for selves in it, it is not a priority for asciilifeform and i dun see an argument for making it one.
asciilifeform: ( i'll add : imho, an 'ffa graduate' oughta be able to write own correct arithmetron in his asm of choice, in coupla weeks , if feels like it. )
asciilifeform: folx who do not like that the e.g. ch10 electrical diagram goes left-right , can a) draw own b) look strictly at the algebra , as asciilifeform did when wrote it to begin with , i do not have a year to spend on redrawing'em mirrored.
asciilifeform: this is really about all i have to say on the subj.
asciilifeform: possibly there's a deeper 'meta' point in this thread, i.e. that the final stage of fitting a mechanism in-head, is when you rewrite it with own hands, in the notation of ~your~ choice, so that the orig author's arbitrary conventions (and it is impossible to write anyffin nontrivial w/out ~some~ personal convention) dun rub the skin off yer feet.
asciilifeform: ( recall, is why e.g. mod6 wrote ~own~ vtron )
Mocky: !!up kanzure
deedbot: kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
Mocky: !!down kanzure
Mocky: trinque: thx
Mocky: bbl
BingoBoingo: Congrats on the lordings bvt and Mocky
Mocky: thanks BingoBoingo
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