#trilema | 2019-04-17

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/der-fantastische-harem/ << Trilema -- Der fantastische Harem.

asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?

lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

phf: asciilifeform: yes, fixed, ty

lobbesbot: phf: Sent 21 hours and 27 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> wouldja be willing to stand up a logger instance for #pizarro ? appears that ben_vulpes and his bot, may have been lost at sea or whoknows

lobbesbot: phf: Sent 4 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?

phf: also re pizarro, i can, but it'll take me a bit of time, it doesn't have multi channel capability, but then i'm also not sure if i want to make it explicitly multi channel. i might just spin up a second instance instead

phf: hmm, perhaps it can read links and do xref across several channels, only reason i can think of to make it multichannel capable.

asciilifeform: phf: ty

asciilifeform: iirc ben_vulpes had the multichannel xref thing

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908560 lulz : didjaknow, in e.g. <= 250nm process, concept of 'yield' is invariably in the direction of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907933 , rather than ye olde 'put the working units in crate A , the dead -- in the skip'

a111: Logged on 2019-04-15 19:41 asciilifeform: also ate buncha vlsi likbez in weekend, but early to write re subj yet.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 17:24 asciilifeform: ( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )

asciilifeform: i.e. the # of ~working~ transistors you can reliably fit on 1 die, flattened out some time even before what is ordinary thought of as 'death of moore's law'

asciilifeform: *ordinarily

asciilifeform: ... which makes the hdd-like approach described in earlier thread even moar appealing -- dun have to laser'em out, can simply map the dead blocks, and tell autorouter not to use'em

a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 17:21 asciilifeform: you map'em out, like 'bad blocks' on '80s hdd

asciilifeform: unrelatedly : phf , iirc you signed a coupla ch of ffa prior to the keccak regrind. didja ever sign the reground chs ?

asciilifeform: currently looks like bvt is the champ ffa eater.

BingoBoingo: In other conspiracies former President of Peru allegedly evacuated his own skull case with lead when the police showed up to to gulag him.

BingoBoingo: And in Aregentina https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/plan-anticrisis-macri-congela-tarifas-de-luz-gas-y-transporte-por-el-resto-del-ano-201941711573

asciilifeform: meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the ice40 open fpga toolchain , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'

a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 23:18 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ic-pr0n, http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/bitdocs-8k << spiffy example of nonpdfized ( per earlier mircea_popescu thread ) hierarchical docs

asciilifeform: from, near as i can tell, starvation.

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in february, chinese 'gowin semiconductor co' cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.

asciilifeform: re wolf, i admit to being surprised that he found any kinda moneys at all

asciilifeform: aand last update on the ice40 page seems to be 30 jan '18. so nuffin happened there since i 1st found it. ( there was, at one point, e.g. talk of support for the larger lattice co. chips )

asciilifeform: so that story seems to be headed to the usual finale for such.

a111: Logged on 2015-03-24 18:38 ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...

asciilifeform: evidently, the hero who knows how to turn work on sane kompyooting irons/softs into a self-sustaining economic item, is not yet born.

asciilifeform: suspects that this would require finding some other planet to sell'em on..

bvt: asciilifeform: isn't ice40 a done thing, i.e. is there anything else to add to it?

asciilifeform: bvt: i'm satisfied that wolf properly described the low-level fabric of the 8k model. but the synthesis engine is pretty barbaric.

asciilifeform: he had plan to dig into the larger fpga from same vendor, and to improve the synth engine, but apparently went nowhere.

asciilifeform: ( ~why~ went nowhere -- i do not presently know; it may be simply from lack of time , ~or~ could easily be because he does not in fact have the relevant gate-delay numbers . the published docs suggest the latter as possibility )

bvt: the larger fpga - seems to be it https://symbiflow.github.io/prjtrellis-db/ ? last time i checked it was work in progress

asciilifeform: bvt: thing was 'work in progress' for years iirc.

asciilifeform: there are two consequences of poor synth engine : can't fit into the chip even items that theoretically oughta fit, and : what's worse, sometimes ~can~ fit, but 'mysteriously' dun work at reasonable clock , cuz mismatched path delays.

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )

bvt: i have to admit i have zero experience with these tools

asciilifeform: bvt: re delays, it's a quite basic fact, if you have e.g. nand gate in 1 path, and straight wire in other, the signals will get to other side at different times

asciilifeform: this is why fpga design ~never runs at anywhere near the max switching rate specced by the device vendor. a good synth tool 1) tries to minimize the delays 2) gives you an accurate figure for max clock, and for propagations of individual paths ( if you have e.g. dram hanging off the thing, these are critical )

asciilifeform: as it stands, it is just about impossible, presently, to bake even very simple dram controller for ice40

asciilifeform: ( it will not only occupy the ~entire matrix, even if you somehow get it to fit; but also won't meet timing spec, even at pretty modest clock )

bvt: i get the propagation delay physics; i guess the question is how much is lost due to suboptimal design tools, vs max capability of hardware

asciilifeform: bvt: naturally synth tool cannot 'squeeze blood from a stone'

asciilifeform: but if you want deterministic paths, currently yer stuck using the vendor shitware. ( what's worse, even on ye olde xilinx apparently it is impossible to write e.g. a working 200MHz+ dram controller from 1st principles, yer forced to use the vendor's shitware that actually knows the gate delays, to equalize the paths )

asciilifeform: the ice40 people , arguably 'solved half of the problem' -- they found a reasonably homogeneous chip so that they could describe the actual connections. but apparently were unable to map out the delays.

asciilifeform: it's a 1st-class bitch to do this with 0 cooperation from the folx who make the chip, mainly cuz erry single revision has different intrinsic delays.

asciilifeform: in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'

asciilifeform: i.e. yer still stuck with their closed shitware, and with closed 'ip cores' (libraries) from them if you want sdram, ethernet, etc.

asciilifeform: cuz they dun give you the info that you'd need to actually bake the config streams for these 'from 1st principle'.

asciilifeform: the entire biz model of fpga market as it existed since 1990 or so, is based specifically on pulling this kinda scam.

asciilifeform: 2y ago asciilifeform found a ru firm that cloned altera's larger fpga. they do SAME THING

asciilifeform: ( and, bonus, their shitware aint even sold outside of ru )

asciilifeform: it's exactly the 'biz model' of mp's proverbial 'wall holders'.

a111: Logged on 2016-04-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: basically, all the architecture systems architects have managed yet to produce is the equivalent of "we need 10.1k builders - 100 to build and 10k to hold up the walls once we're done".

bvt: i see; if vendor can subvert the chip in nonobvious way by changing delays organizing a military style приемка would be the only option for actually using the devices

asciilifeform: aaha

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908779 << This retard in the thread "It would be nice to see OpenSilicon Foundation or whatever the name would be. Similar to what Apache or Linux Foundations do? But that requires someone with really good and people skills and industry connections to run. The list of existing ones is long: "...

a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 18:29 asciilifeform: meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the ice40 open fpga toolchain , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'

BingoBoingo: The point of those "foundations" seems to be preventing good things

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the reason why there aint a linux-style derpfoundation in ironware, is elementary

asciilifeform: feeding 9000 poetterings is quite cheap, compared to cost of making even very modest 1980s-style irons.

asciilifeform: you can't make chip fab cheaper by asking it to live in group house 15 cucks to a room and to eat recycled noodles.

asciilifeform: it costs what it costs.

asciilifeform: sorta why there aint a 'open sores satellite launcher' firm, etc

asciilifeform: ( tho iirc there was an actual attempt to organize 1, they launched a crate or 2 of fist-sized beepbeeps into deliberately burns-in-coupla-months orbit )

asciilifeform: observe that even the btc asic thing was financed by outright fraud (and on massive scale)

BingoBoingo: Right, the problem with megashops subsidizing the milk to kill small shops pops up here. Whatever it costs is undercut by USG financing Intel and other shitgnomes in the space.

asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there aint any 'small shops' in chip biz.

asciilifeform: not since 1980 or so.

BingoBoingo: Not disputing that

asciilifeform: it's the most massively centralized industry that exists. there are actually moar independent satellite launchers than e.g. <= 70nm fabs.

asciilifeform: brb:tea

BingoBoingo: Just wondering what a market could look like if USG didn't burn a trillon or so over the decade promoting shit

feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ << Ossa Sepia -- Reading Notes on FFA Ch1 - Ch4

diana_coman: asciilifeform: my sigs for ch9-ch11 are at http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-693.0-755.49

diana_coman: the writeup is behind the sigs that are behind the read that is behind the skim and so on

asciilifeform: diana_coman: a++, will read, and will roll the sigs into next ch

asciilifeform: mega-illustration btw

asciilifeform: will have to switch to diff machine to properly eat diana_coman's piece today , as it gets mangled on my usual 90degree display

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 1st link malformed btw

asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy

asciilifeform: diana_coman: re the stylistic nitpicks : there'll defo be a tail-end ch where various items get moar descriptive names. and i agree with diana_coman's pt re e.g. 'Get_Head'

asciilifeform: re shift_right and shift_left -- these follow the machine convention, which afaik has been unchanged since 1960s and long pre-dates 'endianism' wank

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho

asciilifeform: if it's re the arrays, these are forced into 0 .. N notation by the lang

asciilifeform: ( which is admittedly annoying, from notational purism pov, but not much to be done about it )

asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-161.412-161.519 << measurable penalty. which is why the 'range-independent' thing is in some ops but not others. i headached over this extensively when 1st wrote.

asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-219.321-219.445 << y'know, there isn't any harm in 'looking ahead in the textbook', when you feel like doing so

asciilifeform: tho i do suspect that i did introduce certain knobs before there was strictly a need to do so, solely on acct of imperfect plan ( recall, most of the proggy through ch10 or so, pre-existed the start of the human-readable series )

asciilifeform: 'MachineBitnessLog2' is prolly the most obv. example of this, it only comes into play in ch13

asciilifeform: re the range-independent thing -- it is part of a larger picture, summarized in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2892#selection-231.1-391.71 ( in turn from an earlier diana_coman thread, in fact . )

asciilifeform: there's an engineering tension b/w 'maximally consistent' and 'performs reasonably on pc' , which i resolved mostly but not entirely in favour of the former

asciilifeform: e.g. one ~could~ have preconds on ~all~ of the ops, but then say goodbye to inlining and hello to 'geological' rsa.

asciilifeform: i settled it in favour of having preconds etc. on the ~user-operable~ api ( as pictured in ch11. )

mp_en_viaje: waves

asciilifeform: ohai mp_en_viaje

mp_en_viaje: how goes!

asciilifeform: still kicking hungarians into traffic?

mp_en_viaje: lol nah, i think i walked 20 miles today

asciilifeform: neato

mp_en_viaje: pest eminently walkable, is the truth of the matter

asciilifeform: afaik ~all of europistan walkable, except maybe bucharest where they do the orc thing of 'we'll all buy merc on credit and park on sidewalk'

mp_en_viaje: well yes, but it also helps to have where to walk ~to~

mp_en_viaje: i mean here, the chicks are a pleasure. cosmetics store clerks are like, running more of a club in the g0d damned store than the average costa rican strip club

asciilifeform: diana_coman: re 'Natural' type -- this is one of asciilifeform's persistent headaches -- the lang forces certain things to be indexed by 'Natural', and i optimized for minimal # of casts ( i fucking hate casts, and imho the fact that one cannot write a proggy ENTIRELY without'em, is a language bug )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'where to walk to' is absolutely killer here in ameristan. asciilifeform walks erry day, but frustratingly in (however large) circles

mp_en_viaje: you know ?

mp_en_viaje: you;d prolly love the architecture here. ever been ?

asciilifeform: nein

mp_en_viaje: oh, absolutely must then.

asciilifeform: when went to timis 1st thought 'oh budapest is 30min by bus' but ran outta time.

mp_en_viaje: lotta little good things, you know, like... go for a ~hour danube trip, have a bottle of wine on boat.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, really the sane way is to connect through budapest. one of the better airports in general area.

asciilifeform: erry time i try an' connect via somewhere-interesting it seems to add a digit to price

mp_en_viaje: naa

mp_en_viaje: where'd you flew to timisoara through ? bucharest ?

asciilifeform: aha

mp_en_viaje: via budapest prolly 10% cheaper or such

asciilifeform: salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc

mp_en_viaje: poor you'

asciilifeform: hey picture how crowded would be if erryone were somehow mp_en_viaje

mp_en_viaje: but yes, budapest very much recommended.

asciilifeform: doesn't post much travel photo on acct of... it'd be like a dog posting food pics. 'omfg errything here was Built By People! and not josephsmiths! omfg have you seen a light post like this?' etc

asciilifeform: if asciilifeform could leave the idjit reservation for even say whole 6 wks, perhaps effect would wear off. but when or how would this even happen lol.

mp_en_viaje: i suppose ima have to post the "bring me one of everything" pics huh.

asciilifeform: iirc already posted 1 , with the wine glasses

asciilifeform: but it dunhurt to make moar

mp_en_viaje: oh oh, the palinka

mp_en_viaje: that's actually the local spirit.

asciilifeform: and pics are great, i suspect most of these 'everythings' i will only see if mp_en_viaje finds time to make a pic of'em.

mp_en_viaje: it wasn't that bad, like a hundred bucks worth or so.

mp_en_viaje: "I should just burn it all down and start something completely fresh. I always thought CFD combustion models are super fascinating. Maybe I'll do that next. Or maybe I'll just drop off the grid, get a regular job, and write EDA software just for me and nobody else. Fuck FOSS EDA. " << i wonder what happened there.

asciilifeform: walking across europistan isn't a mp_en_viaje-strictly activity because expensive. but because takes time.

mp_en_viaje: not that i don't have a guess.

BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform doesn't post much travel photo on acct of... it'd be like a dog posting food pics. 'omfg errything here was Built By People! and not josephsmiths! omfg have you seen a light post like this?' etc << iirc you still have good chunk of Bingoboingistan on your camera roll

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i take the pics mostly for self, to occasionally look at and remember that there ~is~ an outside

asciilifeform: i use'em the way folx on submarine use their pics of trees an' birds etc

mp_en_viaje: oh i see, this is one of those "if mp gives some money then we'll pretend microsoft gave us money, and if not, whatever, '''do something else'''"

mp_en_viaje: they can get bent.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'what happened there' , d00d seems to say his piggy went dry.

asciilifeform: i have nfi either way. ( in fact had nfi that he ~had~ a piggy )

mp_en_viaje: ya ya, whole theo de radt song and dance again.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 6mo old page. i think he already bent.

mp_en_viaje: fuck 'em, that schmuck poisoned the well for all of them rotinculo.

BingoBoingo: No reason not to post trees and birds more often. This week they butchered the trees on my street, but they'll grow back still gnarlier copices and pollards. It's a thing of charm.

mp_en_viaje: all the better.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: (as you can read further downthread) the misfortunate thing is that died before got anywhere near mature ice40 tool.

asciilifeform: ( the '18 one , i have, and worx for low-frequency applications like e.g. 'fg 2' , but that's pretty much it )

mp_en_viaje: all these 40-something white dudes with a lengthy "conferences" resume and a buncha typical assorted retardation. not useful, cordially invited to http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/ it.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: knowing 0 aside from the product , i would say it is not correct to put wolf in the company of koch -- wolf actually did sumthing nontrivial and useful ( mapped out the ice40 matrix )

mp_en_viaje: the world is truly better off without linus, without this dork, without all of them. better a frank dark age than more of this twittercrap.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, so did linus. so did de raadt.

mp_en_viaje: it is WORSE than not doing anything at all. much like poisoned meat is worse than a similar sized rock.

asciilifeform: where did he 'poison the meat' ?

mp_en_viaje: !!gettrust ice40

deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.

mp_en_viaje: ^

asciilifeform: he didn't conjure up the delay map, but asciilifeform neither knows how to do this without seven figures' worth of microscopy

asciilifeform: ( my current understanding, is that it would be actually ~cheaper~ to bake own homogeneous-fpga thing ... )

mp_en_viaje: and the EXACT same goes for linus. because if deedbot comes out with 0, you know ~for a fact~ schmuck's running a bait and switch scheme, waiting for anon tards to donate their wikipedia editing to him so he can donate it to some "code of conduct" femstate tards down the line.

mp_en_viaje: it's what it is.

mp_en_viaje: none of these retards "doing things" "running projects" etcetera outside of the republic are worth 0. they're all negative.

asciilifeform: did , repeatedly, write, and many yrs ago nao, that the 'reverse fpga' people are solving the wrong problem -- by the time they achieve anyffin, vendor simply replaces the design and laffs

mp_en_viaje: obama's just a retarded monkey. "clifford wolf", now that;s actual poison.

BingoBoingo: Anyways, Notre Dame is now officially staying ruins with Macron's 5 year "Built it more beautiful plan" http://archive.is/ATdMe

asciilifeform: 'they hoped for "a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era"' << lol!!

mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, imo primo real estate for peace & reconcilliation mosque

asciilifeform: plastic fantastic

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: precedent, too. recall 'wtc mosque'.

BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I assume that's what "more beautiful" means

mp_en_viaje: "They sounded at 16:50 GMT to mark the exact moment when the blaze started on Monday." << the preoccupations of these fucktards.

BingoBoingo: The former priviledged lease to the Catholics gets Surrendered by Argentine anti-pope. Mourning ensues for the absent Borgias.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908782 << which is likely some windows-7-only pile of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907846 nonsense

a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 18:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in february, chinese 'gowin semiconductor co' cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 16:35 mp_en_viaje looks at the wonder. it's something else, requires adobe air, atop a lengthy pile of other bullshit. the comments "#added by yong wong" in the ~100kb init.sh (that ~requires root~) are the lulz of all time.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lol howdja guess?!111

asciilifeform: what else are they ever.

mp_en_viaje: i dunno, a goose laid it on me.

mp_en_viaje: we think we have problems, you should see the army of chinese 20something retards and their personal habits for writing code.

mp_en_viaje: satoshi's a paragon of elegance in that context.

asciilifeform: oh i have seen

BingoBoingo: The retards treat their old windows versions as sacrosanct. Those turds draw more loyalty than any linux versions.

asciilifeform: china, in case anyone was thick enuff not to yet notice, is not therepublic; it's a cheap chinesium clone of 'vhs' usg.

mp_en_viaje: they seem to get some very weird to not say patently insane satisfaction out of "making i twork"

mp_en_viaje: it's almost like their version of mating. "i enjoy sticking it into the missus precisely because i have no fucking idea how i got here nor any confidence i could repeat it ever"

mp_en_viaje: which is how "sacrosanct windows version" got to be the thing.

asciilifeform: iirc korea even worse. ( ~0 one in korea has ever heard of any www browser other than ie , for instance )

mp_en_viaje: and then they went and built a "banking" stack on it.

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: mandatory, too ( do biz in kr ? say hello to ie ~6~ )

mp_en_viaje: and THEN they think it's ~fans~ that suck the air out of the room while you sleep so you suffocate.

mp_en_viaje: not the fucking banking apps.

mp_en_viaje: the de-moronification of short little men with slanty eyes and tiny dicks makes the turning of all us suburban mall rats into virtuoso concert pianists a picnic of a task.

mp_en_viaje: and speaking of tiny dicks : EVERYONE IN ROMANIA GOES ABOUT WITH A THIMBLE BETWEEN THEIR LEGS.

mp_en_viaje: entire fucking country has nothing but tiny dick condoms, i'm like, bitch, where the fuck do you keep the large ones, they're like what large ones.

BingoBoingo: In New World Wonders I present "The Catherdral of Artigas" (sparsley populated territory in the Northern Corner bordering Brasil) http://archive.is/wmjIU

asciilifeform: worked with chinese fella who spent multiple hr erry day on ~looking for 10c cheaper petrol~ . the english have perfect term, 'penny wise, pound foolish'

BingoBoingo: What a clock

asciilifeform: brb:meat

mp_en_viaje: ended up having to import magnums, because "o no, all we do is durex here" "okay, so where's the durex xl then ?" "what ? no such ting exists!!!!"

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908807 << guaranteedly no thought went into any of this. the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467290 proprietor of a previously transylvanian saxon-owned property including an acre of orchard that wasn't properly pruned failing to properly prune the damned trees isn't proof positive "nobody could turn tree pruning into +ev activty". the fucktarded gypo doesn't even know what the fuck an orchard is, nor could distin

a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:26 asciilifeform: in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'

a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 18:15 mircea_popescu: there's stories in the us proletcult folklore about the regime deciding to socially integrate gypsies, ending up with indoor fireplace fed from what used to be the parquet...

mp_en_viaje: guish a pruning kit from a mohel's tools.

mp_en_viaje: the chinese are leaving money on the table left and right, sometimes by failure to perceive the table, sometimes by failure to understand what money is, etcetera.

mp_en_viaje: if they had any fucking sense they'd be doing pretty much everything at least slightly differently, and a lot of things quite very differently ; but then again the exact same could be said of spanish conquistadors, or medieval crusaders, or british imperial administration, or zee fucking reich.

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/sea-is-no-escape-thai-navy-pursues-couple-for-constructing-and-settling-offshore-platform/ << Qntra -- Sea Is No Escape: Thai Navy Pursues Couple For Constructing And Settling Offshore Platform

mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in contemporary kitsch, https://orientalismblog.wordpress.com/category/razumov/

asciilifeform: if mp_en_viaje has the spare cycles, asciilifeform is quite curious to learn how exactly the chinese chip folx are 'leaving money on table'

asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908968 << recall the 'sovereign citizen' idjits ? or e.g. the earlier 'sealand' d00d . the diff b/w the penniless and the rich idjits is that the latter build larger physical monuments to their hallucinations, is all

a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:03 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/sea-is-no-escape-thai-navy-pursues-couple-for-constructing-and-settling-offshore-platform/ << Qntra -- Sea Is No Escape: Thai Navy Pursues Couple For Constructing And Settling Offshore Platform

a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 20:59 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had a piece about how troobelievers in 'rule of law' will set themselves up into ridiculously doomed situations, where they fixate on some technicality, like changing their names to punctuation marks or somesuch, that Will Surely Crash The System

asciilifeform: but in both cases similar, 'i'ma find this technicality in the Official Rulz that will Surely Work' etc

asciilifeform: and in the case of the 'offshore' people, with added cockroaches

a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 16:19 asciilifeform: historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with

asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'

asciilifeform: rather than http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793725

a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.

a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 21:00 mircea_popescu: this is akin to the notion that redskins would have used treaties to opress white settlers. bitch, really ?

asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.

asciilifeform: in asia they have blind 'cult of wealth', in the straight '10c cheaper litre of petrol' sense.

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had a piece re how 'the people w/out balls, they do not want Anything to Happen; they want to hum along.' that's china in 1 sentence.

asciilifeform: modern-day ru, with putin's 'we will have government without ideology'(tm)(r) is in practice very similar animal.

asciilifeform: brb,meat

BingoBoingo: watching Peruana break down a chicken with ceramic knife (a tool she is very aware does not serve for prying)

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/europe-today-brexit-party-moving-to-win-uk-election-for-eu-parliament-notre-dame-apparently-to-remain-ruins/ << Qntra -- Europe Today: "Brexit Party" Moving To Win UK Election For EU Parliament, Notre Dame Apparently To Remain Ruins