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hanbot: asciilifeform do you have a url handy for your original, absolutely first-ever post on V? i'd like to link to it. (and while i'm at it, mircea_popescu why doesn't http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory/ link to it?)
asciilifeform: ( trb vgenesis released slightly ~prior~ to 1st vtron per se, recall )
asciilifeform: this i think covers it.
hanbot: oh yeah it was mailing list, not blog. imho it oughta have its place in amber on your www.
mircea_popescu: hanbot cuz it links the mailing list.
mircea_popescu: at the time alf was being weird about publishing things on his blog.
hanbot: mircea_popescu so it does. but i mean, "the idea behind this"? what if one's looking for -the- this?
mircea_popescu: ~the~ this is actually in the article.
hanbot: am i nuts for expecting the this to be on asciilifeform's blog, seeing as he wrote it?
mircea_popescu: 2019 logic didn't seem nearly as logical in 2015, what can i tell you.
hanbot: lolk.
mircea_popescu: there's this common tendency among noob bloggers to regard the blog as some sort of trophycase/showcase. they miss out on their own youth, as the lived story of their own personal path through life, consisting as such always does of failure, and tribulation.
mircea_popescu: before i made nicole go naked on her knees NOBODY EVER imagined going naked on your knees is the proper path towards a technical career. before i published that thing, it wasn't self obvious it should be on loper-os. and so fucking following.
mircea_popescu: witness how instagram is chock full of a bunch of pretentious pictures of foods/travels/whatever that the putative "authors" ~aspire~ to.
mircea_popescu: it'd be way the fuck better to see the 500 failed attempts that went into that quiche/scooba/whatever. but people being the morons that their mothers made them, rather than the people their absent daddies could have conceivably made them, throw out the good stuff and keep around the chaff nobody cares about.
mircea_popescu: and so blogs are significantly shittier than they could have been, and in exchange the author steals his own hat, and "saves face" or w/e the fuck the inner 6yo imagines itself to be getting thereby.
mircea_popescu: "if nobody saw me shitting my pants then therefore nobody has any cause to suspect i ever did" or somesuch. as fucking if that's how anything worked.
hanbot wouldn't for a moment think of v as belonging in the set of "failed attempts"/"ugliness or banality potential of life on earth", but otherwise the problem of desire to control perception is spot-on. i certainly have that problem, "x isn't polished enough", "i'll write about y when it's all done and i know what the score is" etc
hanbot: you know, when i'm dead.
mircea_popescu: but you see, ~before~ "v" existed, in the sense you understand it now, v also existed as a thing that hasn't yet existed.
mircea_popescu: v-as-of-2015 is exactly the same item as something-that-will-happen-tomorrow. yes v-as-of-2019 has some sort of value associated, built in those 4 years. but the original, emergent item was valued according to prospective, not historical criteria. basically, it got whatever ~default~ value one put on his own ingenuity.
mircea_popescu: and alf of 2015 was a lot less confident in his own product than there was any cause to (for the obvious reasons he occasionally discusses, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892360 and all that)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 17:18 asciilifeform: back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc
hanbot: i guess "we've always venerated v" ~= "we've always been at war with eastasia", but it's not so easy to see from this vantage.
mircea_popescu: all the recurrent "look how well this works out, except it only works out because the item was there, you couldn't have computed WHEN I WROTE IT that this is how it'll be useful, nor do you have the time or resources when it'd be useful to re-produce the thing in the past you should've marked" is entirely about this.
hanbot nominates that old pic on trilema of some shit you took as mascot for this conversation
mircea_popescu: "but mp, why would you DO that!!!" "i don't know yet."
hanbot: hey phf -- there's some shenanigans with your blog i think. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EVcgT/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/bc7vw << yeah, his domain expired or got jacked or something
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/02/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-ii/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part II
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/anglotardation-in-an-object-oriented-world/ << lobbesblog -- Anglotardation in an Object Oriented World
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899036 << back now, sorry about that
a111: Logged on 2019-02-24 08:16 hanbot: hey phf -- there's some shenanigans with your blog i think. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EVcgT/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: lobbes your work inspired a trilema megapiece!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899016 << more boringly, item was born from trb work ( and specifically jurov's mailing list mechanism , with enforcement of patch signatures ) , i.e. 'hand-cranked v', so ended up on the trb ml.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-24 06:38 hanbot: am i nuts for expecting the this to be on asciilifeform's blog, seeing as he wrote it?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899025 << imho trb ml contains massive record of ' asciilifeform's initial failed attempts at v ' : the sequence of 'determine flow with bare hands' pre-v patches. ( signed, too )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-24 06:47 hanbot wouldn't for a moment think of v as belonging in the set of "failed attempts"/"ugliness or banality potential of life on earth", but otherwise the problem of desire to control perception is spot-on. i certainly have that problem, "x isn't polished enough", "i'll write about y when it's all done and i know what the score is" etc
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899032 << when 'v' started 'living' outside of domain of strictly trb, asciilifeform did eventually write 'open problems' piece re subj, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
a111: Logged on 2019-02-24 06:53 mircea_popescu: all the recurrent "look how well this works out, except it only works out because the item was there, you couldn't have computed WHEN I WROTE IT that this is how it'll be useful, nor do you have the time or resources when it'd be useful to re-produce the thing in the past you should've marked" is entirely about this.
asciilifeform: hanbot: orig 'v' was an asciilifeform torture room item, but it was other folx who made it actually useful ( mircea_popescu -- conceived a philosophical foundation for it, conceptually; ben_vulpes -- documented; mod6 et al -- reimplemented , and filled missing pheature holes ; trb users -- battlefield-tested; phf -- keccakized; etc )
asciilifeform: so even if orig publication had been moar detailed and on asciilifeform's www, one would still be stuck walking all of these, to get proper picture .
a111: Logged on 2015-04-07 21:39 mircea_popescu: but i say the pigs make ham. as that one butcher observed, "i only follow the lines already there"
mircea_popescu does very little actually creative work ; merely not getting in the way of people trying to make things is a full time job
mircea_popescu: for like 8 people.
asciilifeform: verily.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899021 << these tend to converge to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898936 -style horror . asciilifeform's pov re writing is to write the kind of thing he would wish to read himself, rather than 'here is what we ate , and here is what looked like when we barfed it out' . granted when taken to extreme other end, can result in writing nuffin at all .
a111: Logged on 2019-02-24 06:42 mircea_popescu: witness how instagram is chock full of a bunch of pretentious pictures of foods/travels/whatever that the putative "authors" ~aspire~ to.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-23 18:34 mircea_popescu: "Busy all day. The phone just would not stop ringing. Mark called several times (some of them about Paychex), Stu called (oops, late to meet him for lunch), my sister called (wants me to buy her a house, but in a good way), I called my grandparents to thank them for the Red Lobster gift card Fade and I used for dinner, the series of phone calls from Eric was because he had to debug a problem with the gpsd test suite hanging o
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, this is exactly "alf likes polish notation". good for you, but as the above cs intro page explains : YOU KEEP NEEDING SHIT FROM THE RIGHT.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i like all 3 notations. for erry size of hammer there is a time an' place.
mircea_popescu: you don't generally know what you will like to read, is the problem here. and this is not a resolvable problem for good and fundasmental reasons, also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have fairly good picture of what i do ~not~ like to read
mircea_popescu: which is why people who set out to write "interesting journals" end up with crap and peopl setting out to write "earnest journals" end up the basis of history.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly works in the negative.
asciilifeform: e.g. that poor bastard mircea_popescu dug up, with the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898935 , he has some obv. relevant 'death of open sores' history in there, but i can only stomach maybe 15min at a time of reading his chronicle
a111: Logged on 2019-02-23 18:33 asciilifeform: 'My sound cancelling headphone make excellent earmuffs while walking to The Donald's ' << this has gotta be a joak
mircea_popescu: "i'm not putting another shit on trilema, there's one there and i can't discern how a 2nd woul add anything". nevertheless -- the nut's uncrackable, you literally do not know in 2015 what you will like to read of 2015 in 2019.
asciilifeform: certainly troo in the general case.
asciilifeform: sorta why i ended up turning the squelch knob slightly down, and nao one can see rubbish grain photos etc. on asciilifeform's www.
mircea_popescu: that particular dood was (mildly) interesting to me because he was one of the technically apt people who ended up making ubuntu.
mircea_popescu: it's always a fascinating question, this, "srsly, you lot ended up making the bolshevik party ?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: somewhat professoral a worldview, i guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i found it interesting also, the various linux breakages he describes, i walked through in real time ( 'suspend mode dunwork on any lappy, who do i have to kill' etc 2007-present )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fella & his worx certainly excellent demonstration of 'what happens to 'technically competent' without http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898175 ' imho
a111: Logged on 2019-02-20 17:36 asciilifeform: funnily enuff asciilifeform was just recently describing to pet , how mircea_popescu's pesticide worx, and finally clicked when i 'recall cell culture ? when yer growing eukaryotes, you add antibiotic, or guess what dish will be full of next day'
mircea_popescu: "Life's hard and the path obscure, but you'll figure it all out..."
asciilifeform: d00d drank the 'inclusivity' rotgut, and ended up 'including' poettering + 9000 lesser poetterings et al
asciilifeform: even without any poetterings -- the gnutards just about make republican spain look like unified front in comparison ( e.g. what to make of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898976 ?! )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-23 19:03 mircea_popescu: "Poking at making an open source version of the Cisco toolchain again, from publicly available sources. (No, Cisco isn't paying me to do this, most of those engineers are off for the holidays and not even answering their work email. I'm doing it because I'm disgusted with the FSF and would love to undermine Mepis II any way I can.)" << nuts.
asciilifeform: the pov where 'esr quisling, and if not for him, linux would work' is imho simplistic -- there were 9000 quislings, and maybe dozen frustrated honest folx . what could that possibly have added up to.
mircea_popescu: it ~worked fine~ with bitcoin.
asciilifeform: i'm not even convinced that bitcoin would still work if not for the coupla times mircea_popescu applied the defibrillator
mircea_popescu: which is the whole "movement"'s http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-311.0-316.0 moment : no cypherphunks, no "free/open source", no "computer science", no "community", NOBODY has the excuse that "oh it couldn't have been made to work" anymore.
mircea_popescu: it works fine -- but you gotta work it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so ? no shortage of names in the lengthy annals of anglocomputing.
mircea_popescu: five thousand generals and a shortage of generalling you couldn't believe, it's like the island with >9k fishermen which last saw a fish painted on a tuna can.
asciilifeform: if it were a healthy birth, wouldn't need defibrillator when 5yo , would it
mircea_popescu: this is not a given.
asciilifeform: even nao imho thing is a mockery of the orig. 'p2p' premise
mircea_popescu: a large subset of children require corrective heart surgery, grow into perfectly healthy adults.
asciilifeform: large where?! chernobyl ??
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point isn't the tool, the point is that you don't have to build a fucking gnu.
asciilifeform: rright. but must observe, that folx who dun grasp http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823933 , ~will~ build a gnu. regardless of what they're nominally attempting to build.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:19 asciilifeform: matters technical and political are not in reality separable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's large in the clinical sense, it's possibly the ~best prospect surgery~ known, other than apendectomy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm aware.
mircea_popescu: i don't mean "every third".
mircea_popescu: it's like 2-300 ppm if memory serves.
asciilifeform: it's not clear to me that the congenital defects are fixable ( hence the various 'trbi' threads etc )
asciilifeform: ( re bitcoin )
mircea_popescu: now, considering both severity and curative expense, this is large.
asciilifeform: !#s mining is a bug
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in mp being coincidentally right yet again, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-19#1058161
a111: Logged on 2015-03-19 20:50 mircea_popescu: i doubt anyone seriously believes she moves into anything but a jail cell once term ends.
asciilifeform: oh hey it happened ?
asciilifeform: hrm it's an orcistan, neh. could still grease palms, an' walk.
BingoBoingo: Nah, the other orcs are finding too much hoarded palm grease to trade it for fresh.
mircea_popescu: she's screwed.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/word-by-fucking-word-you-understand-me/ << Trilema -- Word by fucking word, you understand me ?
asciilifeform: apotropaion >> custom alive an' well, e.g. https://archive.is/Nx6IO
asciilifeform: ^ in bg, the chix with sword, 85 metres, biggest colossus in world when built (60s)
asciilifeform: sword per se big enuff to sway in the wind.
asciilifeform: under it , marshall chuikov & other folx who helped to fill the hill with dead jerries, buried.
asciilifeform: quite symbolically of fall of su, incidentally, word is that the thing's become a 'leaning tower' and likely to splat soon.
asciilifeform: ( putin -- decreed that it is to be fixed, we'll see how that goes )
mircea_popescu: was this in kiev ?
asciilifeform: stalingrad.
mircea_popescu: i recall some lulz about cutting the sword because taller than whatever lavra
asciilifeform: ~that~ prolly in ukristan.
asciilifeform: ( where afaik there aint much in the way of statues left )
a111: Logged on 2014-09-02 19:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Вместо статуй будут урны - Революции культурной.' -- vysotsky's song about chicoms
mircea_popescu: it's actually quite elegant, unbalanced like that.
mircea_popescu: problem with modern monumental construction, fucking impossible to be elegant in concrete, it's the definitive substance of "american gothic", two square tubs and stolid flowers behind or somesuch is all it does.
asciilifeform: aha. iirc they had to replace the orig hollow titanium sword with solid steel one, old one bent
mircea_popescu: i don't understand how the rfuck it stands.
mircea_popescu: does it like, have steel cabling inside or wtf.
asciilifeform: inside yes. sorta like bucky fuller's 'tensegrity' scheme.
mircea_popescu: pretty cool!
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/usg-baits-child-porn-enthusiast-to-plea-out-for-money-laundering-over-0-06-btc/ << Qntra -- USG Baits Child Porn Enthusiast To Plea Out For Money Laundering Over 0.06 BTC
BingoBoingo: ^ Trust moar USG.BASE
mircea_popescu: the lulzy "you're paying for our incarceration circus" thing is ever spreading, i see.
mircea_popescu: how does one distinguish the usg from this fat ugly but stupid older woman strutting about as if she's gonna decide how the money's spent ?
BingoBoingo: Just... how much these papers suck. Why would anyone who isn't a self hating pervert sign any agreement structured this way?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at mini-usg, "LordMPofTMSR Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." JessicaShadow 24F Switch "That of itself is hilarious, considering I know exactly how smart I am, and how high my IQ is.
mircea_popescu: I can see that you are not a very good Dom/Master. You are abusive and hide behind that title as an excuse. You are not attractive, you have a terrible personality, and you don't deserve subs. I hope they can work up the courage to leave your abusive ass."
BingoBoingo: That they don't actually have and can't have any franchise is obvious.
mircea_popescu: kinda how this works, all the self-loathing weirdos end up in "jail".
BingoBoingo: JessicaShadow 24F Switch << Indecisive soon to be late 20 something can't appreciate she's a loser while hanbot is a very cool weapon of mass destruction
mircea_popescu: remember back when jail used to be this SCARY place ?!
mircea_popescu: by now it's a collective of chronic masturbators.
mircea_popescu: i mean this literally, btw. all everyone ever does in us small camp is jack it.
mircea_popescu: guards go home with accidental cum in their hair daily.
BingoBoingo: Well, the state prisons likely still got the bucks from the hood. But... club fed...
mircea_popescu: even those. dorks have aspirations, they don't intend to waste their only shot at life. it's gotta be used well, they aim to die doing what they themselves deem worthy, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: you can't select a 1968 vietnam platoon out of an entire state's penitentiary system.
mircea_popescu: the weakest computer geek of 1989 is still a gravel chewing, piss&vinegar machine compared to the toughest "hoodlum" of 2019.
BingoBoingo: This is true
BingoBoingo: As Lafond amply documents
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/24/pizarro-isp-february-24th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP February 24th Update
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898992 << so I figured it out my kernel issues. It seems to have been caused by a known bug >> http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1508.1/02478.html
a111: Logged on 2019-02-23 19:16 lobbes: Luckily, this time around I have a 40MB screenlog to parse through. Will return once I have a more substantive understanding of where exactly the failure points are when trying to build my kernel config
lobbes: solution being to simply disable CONFIG_STACK_VALIDATION by setting it to blank, i.e "CONFIG_STACK_VALIDATION =". This was a newer kernel config I was using this time around; I checked and this config option was not even mentioned in my older config
lobbes: However, I'm pleased to say I now have a bootable (and, this time, login-able!) cuntoo on my usb stick. I'll aim to get a post with all the details out this week
BingoBoingo: Congrats on the good news lobbes
lobbes: ty BingoBoingo
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