asciilifeform: to continue in these lulz : ada std has a 'bounded string' type, that superficially is defined as exactly how i wanted to do 'path' type earlier. but! but! if actually invoked, it -- for no logical reason afaik -- prevents the invoking package from being declared stateless ( i.e. pragma Pure ), and this propagates ad infinitum , to caller.
asciilifeform: so apparently i gotta reimplement bounded strings nao..
mircea_popescu: just fucking patch the kernel.
mircea_popescu: there's no need to even HAVE this bullshit open() style. fixwidth path and that's it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'patch' is not the applicable name for the required ragnarok. whole kernel is like this, 9000 layers deep.
asciilifeform: it's what c-tardation is all about.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866278 -> ~every time I used String for anything more than constant value I regretted it somewhere down the line so I tend to converge on the same idea - it's just broken
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:26 asciilifeform: i suspect that String Must-Die(tm)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i happen to know that i'm not the only one who swore off secondarystack -- the 1990s space probes folx did also. but unsurprisingly they never published anyffing re how they filled the resulting cavity in functionality. ( at least they did not have to deal with linux kernel, afaik, ran on bare iron , so no To_C etc horrors )
asciilifeform: it is even possible that they 'cheated' and passes System.Address's around, reverting to c monkeyism.
asciilifeform: ( for the n00bz/l0g-summarizers, likbez : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835937 )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-18 14:13 asciilifeform: btw did i ever discuss why i forbid the secondary stack ?
asciilifeform: ( and elsewhere, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764451 )
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 01:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder; reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder; and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly )
asciilifeform: relatedly, i've written a working replacement for Bounded_String .
asciilifeform: ( trivial, but sadly needed. i have nfi why the standard one has the retarded block against pragma Pure )
BingoBoingo: Breaking: FBI has arrested their Patsy!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-brings-in-their-bomb-hoax-patsy-florida-man/ << Qntra - FBI Brings In Their Bomb Hoax Patsy: Florida Man
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz why publish anything, right.
mircea_popescu has a good mind to edit all these people's graves, "here lies a schmuck, who published rien."
BingoBoingo: And looks like its time for mod6 to change another password
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern academitard 'publishing' is usually of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857920 sort
a111: Logged on 2018-10-04 00:14 asciilifeform: i.e. unreplicable crapola where one'd have to catch the authors and connect'em to 220v to get the orig data, supposing it existed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
mircea_popescu: mod6 omfg! you need sleep, you!
asciilifeform: ( 'electric' serpent is actually somewhat nontrivial, on acct of the gnarly 'key schedule' algo and the arrayed sboxes )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fucking morons.
asciilifeform: not simply morons, mendacious morons
BingoBoingo: Irony: Woman who would clearly recognize as laughable a man's attempts to boast about fapping boast about her own self pleasuring activities https://archive.is/xlEDb
asciilifeform: simple morons would be an improvement.
asciilifeform: i expect academitards-with-seekric-sauce are 98% 'if i published, errybody will know that it never worked', 1% 'if i published, errybody will know that it consists of ripped off old open sores' ( personally met one of these ! ) , and 1% 'it worx and we're gonna patent!111 and getrichquick' , bolix-whisperer style ( i have no direct evidence that these exist, but some indirect clues )
mircea_popescu: obviously dood, the mainstay of adolescentine wank fiction is the shame, the burning, unyielding SHAME of "if dad knew would prolly a) laugh ass off and b) cut pecker off, "useless anyway".
asciilifeform: in this case it's simple madoff fraud, imho, rather than any sort of peculiar freudism. i.e. simple 'we lied for moneys and dun wanna to jail'
mircea_popescu: nah, it's freudism. things as advanced as fraud don't get as fashionable.
asciilifeform: faux-fpga-worx aint exactly the most fashionable scamolas, we're looking at obscure, vs 'sexy', frauds.
asciilifeform: mostly indian/chinese d00dz embedded in usg.academitardia, doin' their india thing.
mircea_popescu: the behaviour is painting-indistinct. "yellow houses aren't the most fashionable". the discussion is house-building, not "yellow house making"
asciilifeform: upstack -- ran into stack of these 'papers' when cleaning out crud, from 2yr ago when asciilifeform thought 'could make simple ciphered disk from usb2sd chip <-> ice40 <-> sdcard ' )
asciilifeform: serpent was bottleneck, in that gedankenbox.
asciilifeform: ( why usb2sd chinesium, and not the usual 'usb microcontroller' ? cuz it has the 'mass storage' stack hairball in mask rom, and not reprogrammable... )
mircea_popescu: need tmsros/tmsrfs first, it's evbident by now
asciilifeform: for self-ciphering block disk ? why ?
asciilifeform: it'd do its thing without involving os/fs
asciilifeform: ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865718 summary )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 22:14 asciilifeform: ( for the l0gz : from asciilifeform's pov, 'sane disk crypter' is an item that gets keyed via onboard keyboard jack, e.g. serpents, the attached disk, and unkeyed when powered off or at the closing of a contact attached to $whatever )
asciilifeform: in fact you would specifically not want any aspect of it visible to the pc.
asciilifeform: presents as ordinary disk when connected/keyed.
asciilifeform: ( existing schemes resembling this are retarded primarily because they have luser enter key via pc kbd , and secondarily because they all married to aes )
mircea_popescu: because then we'd have baked sane hardware for it.
mircea_popescu: how to get fg ? get tmsr-rsa
asciilifeform: lol from that pov no point in doing anyffing at all until we bake own ic at will , on atomic battleship..
asciilifeform: imho disk cipherer is an item that could be made, a la FG, without rebuilding all of civilization, and not have to be rebaked later. supposing folx wanted it.
mircea_popescu: tell this to me again ?
asciilifeform: you have a box, that presents as e.g. usb drive on 'red' end, and eats a e.g. sd card on 'black' end, with a thing between the two that serpents and unserpents (how to key it, is a separate conversation, but it can be keyed sanely so long as it is done not from pc end )
asciilifeform: this was actually mircea_popescu's idea, originally, it was orig part of the cardano cocktail.
asciilifeform: there are heathen incarnations but they all suffer from the obvious idjicies afaik.
mircea_popescu: so listen, you actually see no merit in the "4096 byte crypto fpgas" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see plenty of merit in iron bignumtron, sure
asciilifeform: funnily enuff i dun know of a single commercial/heathendom fpga that could house something of this size.
asciilifeform: not even the $1k xilinx'en.
mircea_popescu: no no, not house it in fpga
mircea_popescu: bake our own fpga, with 4096 bit byte sizes
asciilifeform: as in, with 4096b ( really you want double of this, given how modexp works ) arithmetizer block in the fabric ?
asciilifeform: it'd rock
mircea_popescu: so you don't see my point when i say "well... disk and everytihng else line-crypto really needs tmsr-cryptochip first" ?
asciilifeform: ( it is not meaningful to speak of 'bitness' of fpga per se, it's just a bag of blocks, typically 4-6bit LUTs plus some arithmetizers )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: symmetric crypter doesn't win from massive arithmetron tho
mircea_popescu: but then could rsa!
asciilifeform: it wants simply large # of pedestrian nands/switches.
mircea_popescu: whole problem of "nobody serpent" etc goes away
asciilifeform: yer gonna hammer in a 4096 bit key erry time you uncork the thing ?
asciilifeform: by hand ?
mircea_popescu: if you don't like that, get an antifuse rom chip for it.
asciilifeform: you want the key to vanish in <1ms when you hit the red button tho
mircea_popescu: so keep it on a flash card etc.
mircea_popescu: these are not by any means same calibre problems
mircea_popescu: i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"
asciilifeform: then it aint a fully volatile ciphertron tho. good % of the appeal, from my pov, was that it loses key if unplugged, and has no squirrelholes to somehow inadvertently retain key bits when off.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that there will not be a 'civilized' symmetric cipher, i.e. item with less voodoo flavour to it than 'serpent'
asciilifeform: it is a kind of 'escherian', as mircea_popescu likes to describe, object.
mircea_popescu: i agree with that, but im not sure symmetric cipher hdd wins that much.
mircea_popescu: i mean, sure, it's something.
mircea_popescu: now, maybe after eulora's run for a half decade, and there's ACTUAL ~publshed~ research by ACTUAL humans re its strength, THEN i can revisit this discussion from a different hand
asciilifeform: it wins, theoretically, machine that can be locked/transported .
mircea_popescu: but as it stands, seems sending people to bring me a serpent hdd is not unlike sending people to bring be titted boars. why, can't use women ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody's even yet invented an approach to investigating strength of symmetrics. (only weakness)
asciilifeform: (and i strongly suspect that nobody will)
mircea_popescu: that's what i mean, "a picture of its possible strength emerges from ample discussion of its possible weaknesses"
asciilifeform: but it doesn't. recall the orig symmetric thread.
asciilifeform: we have no concept of 'strength' that shannon didn't have in '47.
asciilifeform: ( and his verdict was 'only about otp can talk about strength, errything else provably contains bits of key in ciphertext' )
mircea_popescu: i want serpent to take me out to dinner first! what!
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu's pov was 'symmetric iron disk is worse than nuffin cuz symmetric ciphers are hokum' -- i'll buy
asciilifeform: problem is that we're already using'em
mircea_popescu: not worse than nothing, no.
asciilifeform: ( an iron rsatron would remove some of the need for fast / low-mem ciphration, but imho not all )
mircea_popescu: if you're hungry, happy meal not worse than nothing (marginally), but you stiull won't get it.
asciilifeform: i was thinking moar along the lines of 'pistol that fires erry other round backwards is worse than a good knife'
mircea_popescu: i don't expect it'd be a bad thing to have. it's certainly way the fuck more than the whole "market" of the whole "security industry" slash barn.
mircea_popescu: but it seems, at least to my dumb eye of today, kinda going the wrong way.
asciilifeform: also worth noting that it's an item heathens might actually buy.
mircea_popescu: if experience is any guide, heathens do not buy by rational criteria.
asciilifeform: so from propaganda/empire-building pov, could be +ev
mircea_popescu: ie, they'll buy your used underwear to wear on head just as well.
asciilifeform: they didn't line up to buy FG.. ( it dun scratch any heathen itches ) whereas this item potentially does scratch, as i understand
asciilifeform: ( dun mean they'll buy, could easily be engulfed by pantsuit lymphocytes and remain 'unhappened' , sure )
mircea_popescu: so yes, i fully expect they'll buy, and then admire the hole we've dug ourselves in : five years down the road, say, as a mental experiment, we've sold 100k of these units, they're 90% of all we've sold, and well... they're still blockshiters. and what's next ? say i utter a fatah against block "ciphering", for good technical reasons or just because i'm insane -- IT DOESNT MATTER, and lo there'll be a lordship schism because
mircea_popescu: the poor people touching that shit (ie, that make it, or sell it, or w/e) are suddenly stuck bearing more weight than their rated limits.
mircea_popescu: say inca utters fatwah against block chiphers (ALSO DOESNT MATTER), now we'll go to war for the holy cause of niggers^H^Hblockchiphers ?
asciilifeform: it aint end of the world if we bake sumthing and then retire it in favour of moar-correct replacement ( a la orig v )
mircea_popescu: except, of course, if the underwear-on-head&over-pants crowd buys it.
mircea_popescu: recall how satoshi's prototype ended up shitbitcoin ?
mircea_popescu: IT WAS A PROTOTYPE
asciilifeform: bitcoin p2p net is moar of a living organism , it is not really upgradeable
asciilifeform: whereas it is not difficult to copy a block disk to a new one and burn the old
mircea_popescu: it seriously never fucking was meant to be gone over with a microscope, "oh satoshi how could you". fuck you i should wear a caliper attached to my pants in case i doodle in the restaurant also ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with computers is that they all tend to be living organisms.
mircea_popescu: if they ever live, they live.
asciilifeform: dunno, i threw out my serial mouse, and didn't have to rewire entire house on acct of having discarded it
asciilifeform: simple peripherals are a thing
mircea_popescu: this is also true.
asciilifeform: $gedankenitem is just that, a 'dumb' peripheral
mircea_popescu: (you did end up with a rewired computer on acct of throwing out that mouse, and you bemoan it daily, but soit.)
asciilifeform as errybody knows, never actually throws out iron!111 so haha!, still has mouse! was rhetorical device
mircea_popescu: in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
mircea_popescu: works altogether*
asciilifeform: incidentally , baking such box doesn't marry to serpent, can replace the ice40's feed rom whenever, with whatever one likes
asciilifeform: so long as it sits down in 8k gates
asciilifeform: ice40 eats config from a 8-legged spi rom thing, can socket it.
mircea_popescu: yeah but suppose some bright kid walks into here one day with that item we all suspect is under a rock somewhere
mircea_popescu: "hey guise ? i have a mathematical definition of blockchipher, and guess what comes for free with it."
asciilifeform: (unlike the xl9572 , incidentally, which has baked-in eeprom )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then errybody who likes it, pulls their roms and writes in ~that~ , neh.
asciilifeform: and nao you have bright-kid-cipher instead of serpent, same iron
mircea_popescu: it comes for free with "here's generic method to attack all of them"
asciilifeform: by same lights bright-kid can walk in with pill for rsa. then wat.
mircea_popescu: absolutely not.
asciilifeform: by what oracle not ?
mircea_popescu: nobody's walking anywhere with any rsa pills. now that i'm willing to die with.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i looked at the both of them things, what can i tell you.
asciilifeform: errybody gotta take bets, sure. but must point out that there is no stiffness proof for rsa any moar than for voodoo-symmetrics.
asciilifeform: and yes i am moar willing to bet on rsa.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
mircea_popescu: but the other point is, yes, "erryone gotta bet". but also, "erryone has finite chips to bet with".
asciilifeform: and will point out, errybody who transmitted rsa-over-serpent in the 20yrs prior to $breakthrough is just as hosed as the folx who were using pocket iron serpentrons
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: ( if anyffing, moar -- iron sepentron is only 'broken' if it actually is captured by enemy prior to serpent-pops )
mircea_popescu: aaaanyways, this out of the way : do you actually have all the parts for this serpentdisk ?
asciilifeform: theoretically in fact yes -- right here in the torture room
mircea_popescu: built one yet ?
asciilifeform: supposing we wanted one
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, as in fact noted in the head of thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: it needs that 1 magick trick.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which -- an ada-to-verilog item would prolly be very fucking useful
mircea_popescu: looks to me like about half of what we write, we'll end up baking eventually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're sorta fundamentally immiscible, verilog is not a procedural/algorithmic lang
asciilifeform: it's a wiring diagrammator, if you like.
mircea_popescu: yes but how strong is that sorta ?
asciilifeform: all the lines 'execute at once'
mircea_popescu: recursive and functional also "sorta inmiscible", at least until bright kid
asciilifeform: it compiles into a gate netlist, rather than sequence of instructions for vonneumann cpu.
mircea_popescu: no dood i understand the differences.
asciilifeform: there actually exists an ada-flavoured variant, 'vdhl', but i never saw any win from it, loox rather like simply a moar verbose verilog. but! to be fair, that was 10y ago when i last dug, it was prior to asciilifeform's getting into adaism.
asciilifeform: err, vhdl
asciilifeform: most gate compilers support both.
BingoBoingo: In other propaganda: https://archive.is/P7sge What kind of ethnic background does the apellido "Sayoc" suggest?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nepal??
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "White" dude
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "what sort of speed hit" is also a topic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re the disk thing ? depends entirely on the serpentron. so open q.
asciilifeform: and yes a ciphrator that gives you a disk that runs at speed of msdos 5inch floppy, aint very sexy.
mircea_popescu: of course once baked could also be put in ~everything else. including say phones or w/e.
asciilifeform: theoretically anyffing that eats normal block devices nao, yes
asciilifeform: the remaining open q re iron is 'how to throw in key', is separate q
mircea_popescu: note that eg the eulora spec (low value item anyway) has MANY keys.
asciilifeform: could simply make it a serial input, and let user decide what he likes, e.g. he has a vt100 he can plug in, or tape reader, or which.
asciilifeform: one potentially interesting variation on the theme is if a key block contained an offset-length into the drive. so pluggin in diff keys could give you diff 'disks', which are normally indistinguishable from noise.
mircea_popescu: meh. sd small enough as it is.
asciilifeform: sd can be had in half TB and moar
asciilifeform: i even have some here.
mircea_popescu: what did you pay for one ?
asciilifeform: approx same 'by byte' as ordinary 2.5" samsungs
asciilifeform: it dun win any speed races, of course. but is available.
asciilifeform: e.g. 200GB samsung sd is ~fiddybux
asciilifeform: they're still going down in cost, also.
mircea_popescu: well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
asciilifeform: ( i was initially testing rk pilot plant to run off sd, discarded on acct of meh speed vs usb3 )
asciilifeform: vhdl is prolly worth a 2nd look, tho i currently suspect that it vs verilog aint a 'ada vs c' win, simply longer text that does same thing ( the only unit of data in fpgaism is really the bit, so 'types' dun exist )
asciilifeform: and the q of 'would serpent fit in ice40' is imho also worth answering. i'ma put it in the pipe.
mircea_popescu: the one thing i really don't like is that wtf block devices of two block sizes.
asciilifeform: if, incidentally, somebody runs across the quasi-mythical src of the old attempts, potentially could decruft/fit-in-head . so plox to write in if find.
mircea_popescu: IF i had a workable understanding of block ciphers, we could bake a device-block-tailored cipher and at least have that to show god.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: two block sizes ?
mircea_popescu: well one for the cipher the other for the disk
asciilifeform: theoretically usb storage allows arbitrary block size .
asciilifeform: ( in practice never tried anyffing but 512 , so whoknows )
mircea_popescu: i thought sds came into native blocksizes and yeah sure the driver atop will let you believe w/e.
asciilifeform: the native one the korean nands give you is usually 4096 as it is
asciilifeform: linux goes along pretending that it's 512 for 'legacyism' , from userland pov
asciilifeform: but if you actually touch the disk, it erases a 4096byte chunk
asciilifeform: the 1 other tricky detail is that you gotta include block ~number~ ( or hash thereof, or some variant ) ~inside~ the plaintext for each block, or you get the penguin
asciilifeform: along with , ideally, some rng crud
asciilifeform: ( pill against 'known plaintext'ism )
mircea_popescu: but wasnt serpent size 256byte ?
hanbot: in other still-using-google fun, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 << news search for bitcoin nominally yields 103M results, of which shitoogle will actually produce 290, which in turn yields ~30 non-duplicates. delayed another week i expect for spelunking.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
mircea_popescu: hanbot spelunking like how ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-patsy-identified-56-year-old-filipino-american-cesar-altieri-sayoc/ << Qntra - FBI Patsy Identified: 56 Year Old Filipino American Cesar Altieri Sayoc
hanbot: something like incrementally sticking date bands into the query and moving ever backward
mircea_popescu: eh, delaying terrible strategy. it's how tbf managed its splendid record to date
mircea_popescu: how about do what you have do more if find more later.
mircea_popescu: nobody yet managed to fill belly on delayed soup.
hanbot: alright, i'll have nicoleci send off the first batch asap.
mircea_popescu: if she can find them.
hanbot: if she can find what? she's got what to send and where to send it, 30x.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: classical serpent eats 256bit key. but ( as illustrated in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/ ) eats/shits 16 byte payload blox as it goes; a 4096 byte flash sector would need 8 of these, plus i suspect a 9th for the block # ( see earlier re 'known plaintext'ism etc )
mircea_popescu: myeah. now, if i could have a cipher that has 512 byte payload, the above "single block" thing'd be satisfied. see ?
mircea_popescu: as it is, two block sizes like morons.
mircea_popescu: various other such moronicities scattered about.
asciilifeform not a great luvvver of symmetricipherism in general, as amply illustrated in the l0gz, for this and other reasons -- there is no known approach to bake symmetricism from any sort of rational angle
mircea_popescu: but the great gain of this morning is that at least all of this now -- on very readable record.
mircea_popescu: with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done.
mircea_popescu: safe enough bet, seeing how it's 99% same as writing code, and they can't do that to save their lives either.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done. << Just gotta make the definition of "white men" more inclusive like the FBI is doing
mircea_popescu: yeah, totally, "inclusive" delivered such great benefits, only more of it could possibly save us.
mircea_popescu: it's lulzy, btw, in all times of plague there emerges this obscure cult of "plague is good for you, get moar rats in your bed" etc.
mircea_popescu: !#s poz my neg hole
a111: 4 results for "poz my neg hole", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=poz%20my%20neg%20hole
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even the fundamental shit-into-toilet-not-pants of 'run gedankenexperiment before actually building' seems to be going away in heathendom
asciilifeform: folx just pick up an' build , build pyramid
mircea_popescu: all things equally etc, rite.
mircea_popescu: why discriminate.
asciilifeform: then, 'surprise', falls into pieces, crushes
mircea_popescu: no, all the better. leaves space for more building.
mircea_popescu: wasps only build soundly because genetics ; individually they'd much prefer to build shoddily -- moar building to do!
BingoBoingo: And the rubble makes for convenient aggregate in the next cement mixing
mircea_popescu: they who build out of compulsion kinda end up like this. no ocd washer ever suffered from "this is clean"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ikr!
BingoBoingo: It's the "lego" disease. Train kids to build shoddily and keep reusing the parts in a cycle of shanty town
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: keep in mind that the lego you had as a boy, hasn't existed in decade+ , afaik, per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710146
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:04 phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
asciilifeform: ( if not 20y )
asciilifeform: the current-day variant of the toy is exactly 'ruby on rails'-style abortion
mircea_popescu: o wow, they defeated the whole fucking purpose ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even back then there were ~5% to 10% non standard parts meaning if one when missing doomed to shanty town construction.
mircea_popescu: such progress!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw the sov clone i had , had 100% interchangeable bricks.
mircea_popescu: cuz "why should kids build toys they didn't pay for" amirite ? apple ftw ?
asciilifeform: ( in variant colours, but otherwise identical to the limits of naked eye comparison )
mircea_popescu: same here.
asciilifeform: in retrospect i'm actually a bit surprised that they pulled off the fine molding
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The clone over here were better as well, completely interchangeable, except... They didn't click together as well.
mircea_popescu: i had two trucks which together built a nice house.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the cloned brix were amazing, survived all kindsa mechanical abuse without so much as a scratch, much less brea
mircea_popescu: in memory of this, ima go eat pineapple while watching dollies wash car.
asciilifeform: btw re lego, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=16 << 2008
BingoBoingo: Youngest brother got a set with a "Mountain" made of two molded half pieces with standard lego dots as the centerpiece.
asciilifeform: in 2008 already was ~extinct.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, when i moved to usa, i briefly got hold of the 'genuine' lego, and was somewhat disappoint
asciilifeform: brittle stuff, and after coupla 100 'clicks', turns 'unclickable'
BingoBoingo: Here in Uruguay lego (genuine or imitation) is a very recent arrival.
BingoBoingo: ~3 years or so.
asciilifeform: was a sort of 'first swallow of spring' re asciilifeform's third eye opening .
asciilifeform: when sov engineers knew how to make a konsoomer item 'eternal' -- they did. ( e.g. famous 'buran' vacuum cleaner, still shows up now and again on lulzbay, when i finally move my arse to 220v country, i'ma buy it ) . when they didn't know, they made eternally maintainable .
asciilifeform: picture, ~60 y.o. vaccuum cleaners that still work, just like when new, and where filter washable and ~indestructible.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-13#1099550 << see also.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-13 14:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` for the record, traditional (european) cooking happened around this large flat table of very thick oak
asciilifeform: ( iirc there was an extended mircea_popescu piece re subj, but i cannot nao recall which )
asciilifeform: re those oaken tables, good as new 200+ yrs into their duty cycle.
BingoBoingo: I am going to ponder this while I run some errands, inevitably seeing at least two air cooled volkswagens buffered by a vast gulf of nothing seperating them from the late model Chinese plasticars
asciilifeform: lol havefun
BingoBoingo: Will do.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866516 << this quickly led to dead end, incidentally -- the ice40 'icestorm' proggy dun seem to eat vhdl...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 17:24 mircea_popescu: well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
asciilifeform: ( suxx when there is only 1 working example of a thing... )
asciilifeform: there's a converter, but it smacks of ye olde c2fortran
mircea_popescu: my ~grandparents~ had a buran. though perhaps i said this
asciilifeform: oh ha yea i recall old thrd nao.
mircea_popescu: i was fucking scared of that thing, as a 5yo
asciilifeform: it had a mighty roar.
asciilifeform: appropriately named, even! 'sandstorm'
asciilifeform: there was also a 'typhoon' and various others, all on roughly same scheme.
asciilifeform: had, conveniently, 2 holes, suck hole and blow hole. dunno why this aint standard today.
mircea_popescu: how isn;'t it ?!
asciilifeform: standard ameri-konsoomer vac has 1 hose hole, suck-only.
mircea_popescu: so where does the air go lmao
mircea_popescu: flakes out condensate ? degenerate matter ?
asciilifeform: it goes out of a grate, no hose hole
asciilifeform: i have a vaguely buran-like chinese thing, with 2 holes, but it eats paper filters, typical modern sad
mircea_popescu: yeah, same thing i got downstairs for car detialing.
mircea_popescu: tube section with a lid
mircea_popescu: the buran had this wunderbar chiseled dome.
asciilifeform: it did! with the brushed coating. there was a whole story re the d00d who came up with that, but i've sadly misplaced.
asciilifeform: came in gold- and silvery- tint. ( who said sov konsoomer sector knew no decoration!11 )
asciilifeform: in later years asciilifeform's folx got a 'rocket' , long streamlined sucker that looked kinda like naval torpedo. after 5yo asciilifeform visited naval museum, then eyed thing with suspicion..
mircea_popescu: i dunno, mine had this green enamel outside
mircea_popescu: i wish i knew how they did that, incidentally. undentable fucking enamel.
asciilifeform: possibly moar variants than i ever saw, who even knows how many
asciilifeform: 'rocket' had that enamel.
asciilifeform: i suspect , was same enamel as on actual rockets..
mircea_popescu: kinda half-considering starting jewelry workshop for slave labour... that'd be so great.
asciilifeform: what wouldja have'em make ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, cunt jewelry.
mircea_popescu: girls that are naked indoors prime jewelry target.
mircea_popescu slowly rediscovering ottoman 15th century techs here ;/
mircea_popescu: ehehe " but really, why sweep the pink flamingos under the rug". spyked's like all smooth an' shit.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/#selection-45.2-45.209 << couldn't just test top bit ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
diana_coman: sure, one can implement the comparison in Ada
diana_coman: but going that route ...can implement the mpi arithmetic too, right?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: out of curiosity -- given what mircea_popescu said the other day re necessary speed of rsa ops, could potentially use the current (11) ffa ?
asciilifeform: the front end aint gonna change, so potentially could, as i understand
diana_coman: asciilifeform, potentially yes
asciilifeform: key gen would be a bitch tho
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
asciilifeform: diana_coman: until you wrote the recent piece, i actually forgot that mpi ~didnt~ shit out ordinary octet arrays as-supplied
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it shits a shit: there is get_mpi_buffer and set_mpi_buffer that theoretically do that
asciilifeform: recently was going over ancient notes from my torture room, and it was actually on my to-do, right before i shelved the thing
diana_coman: BUT: for one thing as previously noticed + tested they trim leading 0 so if you feed it an array with 0 you will NOT get it back the same
asciilifeform: yea kochian 'normalization' (variable-width representation of bignums) does that.
diana_coman: and for the other it's the C style thing where it allocates memory the way it sees fit and the caller is supposed afterwards to clean up the mess when it likes
diana_coman: precisely why I preferred to make a wrapper for it so I don't import the whole stinking pile further up
asciilifeform: it's how i wrap c-isms, also, yea
asciilifeform: ( e.g. in the udp thing )
diana_coman: but it's true that doing the whole conversion to c and conversion back *just for the sake of an MPI comparison* might be uglier than just walking the arrays and seeing which one has a bit set first
asciilifeform: yea but you wouldn't want the idjicy to leak upstream ( per e.g. last night's 'spackling' thread )
asciilifeform: idea being, c-isms stop at the spackling layer and propagate no further
diana_coman: yes, this is for the OAEP part - current algo repeats the oaep padding until the result is < modulus of given key (since otherwise it can't rsa afterwards)
diana_coman: the oaep padding is in ada
asciilifeform: relatedly, asciilifeform is writing a sane paths-handling lib, and it's an uphill climb, tricky to get to/from c representations without pointerism
diana_coman: but the comparison is iffy since either a. call c-wrapper and so do conversion from ada's oaep array of octets to C's MPI shit
diana_coman: or b. make an Ada comparison of 2 arrays of octets
diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
asciilifeform: mpi has a signed subtract, iirc
asciilifeform: can use that
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I gave up on using gnat's ; mainly because at previous experience things went weird quite quickly
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it even has mpi_compare
diana_coman: but...it wants MPI!
diana_coman: hence: convert
asciilifeform: ok makes sense
diana_coman: yes, c_wrappers that I wrote have a wrapper for precisely that mpi_compare thing among other stuff
asciilifeform: but yes, i forgot that the comparison happens after oaep
diana_coman: that's the headache: oaep in ada, comparison in C, if not right, oaep in ada again, if right then rsa in C
diana_coman: and yes, the mpi-variable-buffer-returned gives me some headaches
diana_coman is still pondering the best way to treat that so it doesn't make a mess
asciilifeform: the conversions are O(bitness) tho, i dun expect they will be major dent in performance. simply ugly aesthetically.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, theoretically yes; practically since one calls stuff from mpi lib to create the MPIs, there are all sorts of things going on in there
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866643 - to detail this: technically speaking one CAN test top bit until it's 0 for the oaep block (hence for *sure* < modulus) but I don't think it's great mainly because: 1. this fixes one more bit 2. it's really a way bigger hammer than needed - it can start with 1 and be smaller than modulus so potentially increases the number of repeat-oaep without any good reason 3. it's not even particularly clean,
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 20:57 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
diana_coman: more of a hack to accommodate the stink of MPI - not sure it's something we want in there; if anything, I guess I can see more the point to just walking the octets in the array and basically doing the comparison in Ada
diana_coman: asciilifeform, in some sense MPI lib is a very good illustration for all sorts of things - "make a call and be surprised" sort of things, especially re memory allocation
asciilifeform: it was a terrifing thing, i ran away from it. and buggy, also, per diana_coman's dig, and i'm not even convinced that we know the full extent of the buggism.
asciilifeform: esp. in re routines not used in ye olde gpg, or used with various constraints
diana_coman: asciilifeform, myeah, I don't claim I fully know everything that goes on in there and I quite doubt anybody does; and ftr yes, I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that I had to and have to sign it but... I have to, pretty much
asciilifeform: the very notion of heapism in a crypto lib, gives me hives
BingoBoingo: !!v EFD4B069AB0E3AF5638641F4F299DC98E97B36FA78F98570EBCFE04CE7B575EC
deedbot: BingoBoingo paid trinque invoice 3
trinque: cheers BingoBoingo
mod6: thanks trinque
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866650 << normally not an issue worth thinking about ; but if it coems with saving a lot of gnarly back and forth,,,
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 21:02 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 21:09 diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
mircea_popescu: i wont cry if every once in 256 cases you do an extra oaep that 50-50 might've not been needed.
mircea_popescu: hey BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: didja hear the fatican elected a new fope ?
BingoBoingo: Who's the hammiest of the hams now?