a111: Logged on 2018-04-24 18:35 deedbot: Invoiced mircea_popescu .0336 << shared hosting for s.mg april 24 2018 through april 30 2019
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, can has for whole year plox ?
ben_vulpes: that invoice takes you through the end of april 2019
ben_vulpes: it has six extra days for ease of calendrical bookkeeping, let me know if this does not suit or i misunderstand in some way.
mircea_popescu: ah ah ty.
ben_vulpes: received- and sent-
mircea_popescu: was just checking out the help lol.
ben_vulpes: and in Star Topology Today https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/france-seizes-france-com-from-man-whos-had-it-since-94-so-he-sues/
mircea_popescu: anyone recall the sex.com lulz ?
mircea_popescu: in the end the "very valuable" "premium" domain found 0 economic utility.
ben_vulpes: poor babie3s
mircea_popescu: lobbes, does it no longer read ? biz ?
lobbes: that's..odd. that link works in my test chan >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-04-30.log.html#t06:58:50
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-04-30 06:58:50: <mircea_popescu> well, if pinochle fellow gets around to modeling it properly, we might even find out what they're worth!
mircea_popescu: that's..odd. that link works in my test chan >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-04-30.log.html#t06:58:50 :
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-04-30 06:58:50: <mircea_popescu> well, if pinochle fellow gets around to modeling it properly, we might even find out what they're worth!
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-04-30 06:58:50: <mircea_popescu> well, if pinochle fellow gets around to modeling it properly, we might even find out what they're worth!
lobbes: damn cosmic rays
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in canine optionality, https://78.media.tumblr.com/bcceef2dd0612935295d943140eec9e6/tumblr_mxls22UAN91sg5ujao1_1280.jpg
deedbot: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-arm-64-bit-support/ << ave1 - Building GNAT on MUSL, now with ARM 64-bit support
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6D0F4D10B2071CB5D0BE46C03E04D6543662B6EE4BD153225B345E05B6CFA1D6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-203-181-9.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A7763314024A636A7A49B1EBDE60BB1C47E2A8DE95A02C3FFCF374D32BEADCBA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-203-181-151.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/643A139EF044F87F326F313092BDE22D60C79A81318BABB87AE5C142BC86B939 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-203-181-7.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/839ABB69349BD78F784309DB89D871C3CA284C1EF0E060E1FF3A19BEB3882351 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-187-188-126-28.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F97816E68FFBD245AD39F3509A34B16D8F193D91A6125903354AB4CB383548F3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-203-181-149.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D60710F34429805CA983E018B19C9D0400E3978C6A4F97721303D362A1E9941 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9371...7789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-203-72-147.totalplay.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CB0D4276A5FC8D25B4B36A6949A1739C23C82C7E8B46D6C93257C1F35F23A8DF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1372...2929 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
jurov: mod6: the clearsigned text has bad signature
jurov: mod6: when you have such complicated text, it's best to keep it clearsigned in a file.
jurov: And attach it as first attachment. Then in case of problems check it against contents in your "sent mail" to rule out mutilation by your email client.
jurov: Really curious which misfeature caused the breakage this time.
mod6: jurov: Ah, alright, thanks for checking. It's weird because I did check the clearsigned file before sending, verified fine. Mail Client / ML must have magled it.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806395 << If anyone wants to read / check sigs, these have not been through the mangler. Should be ok.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 01:57 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-29#1806228 << >> http://www.mod6.net/2018/April/30/phexdigit_post.txt >> http://www.mod6.net/2018/April/30/mod6_phexdigit_fix.vpatch >> http://www.mod6.net/2018/April/30/mod6_phexdigit_fix.vpatch.mod6.sig
BingoBoingo: Fuck this humidity
mod6: Mornin BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: NOTHING is drying out
BingoBoingo: mornin mod6
BingoBoingo: And the FUCKING POTATO NIGGERS INSIST on closing the windows and blinds to the room as they remain passed out until 16:00 hrs.
BingoBoingo: By the time the fuckers leave there is a disturbingly high chance everything that isn't already mildewed will be.
BingoBoingo: Fucking 20-25 year old college students and graduates that never learned how to dorm without being completely disgusting
BingoBoingo: And so because these fuckers are afraid of mosquitos coming in an even slightly open window while likely reintroducing chinches de cama, everything must mildew. Thus is the determination of the Irish hivemind
BingoBoingo: And in other turds >> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20180429101731 "-fretpoline for non-RAMDISK kernels. Skylake product needs it, and therefore all other x86 cpus must pay the performance price of the hazard workaround until Skylake disappears from the ecosystem eventually like 486. This returns your cpu's performance to pre-inflated performance."
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806496 << first world "men" don't understand the concept of hygiene, i suspect that as the infrastructure starts failing this would be the number one reason of rapid decay. hygiene not just in a sense of "washing hands", but the idea that there's certain procedures that you have to follow in order to not get fucked over by the environment
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 15:12 BingoBoingo: And the FUCKING POTATO NIGGERS INSIST on closing the windows and blinds to the room as they remain passed out until 16:00 hrs.
phf: but at the same time i suspect that the hostel in question doesn't for example have mosquito nets on bed frames, so it's possible that nigger runs deep in this particular case.
asciilifeform: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: phf: i saw 0 mosquito nets anywhere in BingoBoingostan
asciilifeform: but, to be fair, 0 mosquitos
asciilifeform: ( how this is possible -- i've currently nfi )
BigTexasBingo: We don't have threatening mosquitoes here. There is a bit of Dengue in the North of Uruaguay, but in the city it isn't a thing
asciilifeform guesses 'half century of ddt'
BigTexasBingo: The Irish religious applications of insect repellent lead me to believe they are reinfesting the place with cinches
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806475 >> http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-arm-64-bit-support/#comment-46
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 11:24 deedbot: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-arm-64-bit-support/ << ave1 - Building GNAT on MUSL, now with ARM 64-bit support
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806449 << this appears to be honest work, but if you look at what he actually did, and with what resources, the 'imponade' evaporates away -- he made a coupla-transistor ic , and with 'garage' filled with a princely collection of surplus industrial gear ( electron microscope, sputtering chamber, ~very~ high end optical microscopes, incl. the one he junkyard-wars'd into a lithography box ) ,
asciilifeform: i.e. not the typical meaning of 'garage', and not replicable by anybody without either couple-deca-$mil or 25 yrs of access to just-so junkyards
asciilifeform: i also gotta point out that to make larger ic is quite more than linearly moar painful ( 1 defect --> rubbish; larger die , with 'orc' process, means that P of fatal defect approaches 1 )
asciilifeform: point being, d00d made 0 fundamental breakthrough that would enable 'cheap ic fab' or anything even with stretch of imagination describable as such a thing.
asciilifeform: picture, with access to e.g. boeing's , junkyard, a similar d00d could build something like the nazi 1-seat jet, with own hands also. but to describe it as 'garage-buildable jet' is rather chumpatronic spin imho.
asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )
ave1: asciilifeform, Thanks! I seem to have made a copy and paste error. Links should be updated now...
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 18 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806475 >> http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-arm-64-bit-support/#comment-46
asciilifeform: ty ave1 , will look
asciilifeform: ave1: plox elaborate re the 'after some more work' item ?
asciilifeform: ave1: i.e. is the tarball 'ready for primetime' ? ... or requires toothpicks, glue, and a month of ???
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re ic fabs, see also ancient thread http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-18#1023009 .
a111: Logged on 2015-02-18 04:31 asciilifeform: the only thing that seems certain imho is that starting from existing concept of ic fab is a dead end
ave1: asciilifeform, that work has been done, it builds a native compiler with gcc/g++ and gnatmake but not with gprbuild yet (this last one can be build on the target machine). I can build the FFA code on an aarch64 machine with the resulting compiler.
asciilifeform: ave1: how exactly do you build it without gprbuild ?
asciilifeform: with handwritten makefile ??
asciilifeform: i'll point out, this is not equivalent to 'build ffa', the gpr file is part of ffa, and contains essential functionality ( mainly , incorporates the restriction flags, mandates staticity )
ave1: you'll need gnat2016 from AdaCore on an intel 64bit machine, and that should be all (except for a shell tar, curl etc)
ave1: I build it with gnatmake -Pffa_demo.gpr (I did this up to chapter 3 so far)
asciilifeform: right, but ave1 did you actually get the complete equivalent-to-binary-kit-from-adacore-complete-with-gprbuild-etc made ?
ave1: for the cross-compiler "yes" for the native one "no"
asciilifeform: what happens if you build 'cross' but with 'x86-64' as the target ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'll put teh scare quotes in a clown mask next time
ave1: It's an artifact of the original script, you get a 'cross' compiler that creates code for the same machin
ave1: BTW although it does build code based on shared libraries, this code needs the musl "ld.so" to live at a specific place, so that does not work.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my observation was moar re the 'field' than even the particular item.
ave1: So static code works out of the box, but dynamic not so
asciilifeform: ave1: where, incidentally, does one get this ld.so ?
ave1: it's part of the cross compiler (under aarch64-linux-musl/aarch64-linux-musl/lib directory). The compilers assume it will live under /lib/ld.so, so that part won't work on glibc machines
asciilifeform: so lemme get this straight : this entire thing requires a pre-existing 100%-musltronic linux, to work at all ??
ave1: yes, but on a different architecture, i.e. you can build aarch64 on x86_64
asciilifeform: because this means that asciilifeform cannot currently even begin to test ave1's thing -- asciilifeform does not have a musltronic-linux machine
ave1: o sorry, no not musltronic, the adacore one will work fine
asciilifeform: ( afaik only trinque has one )
asciilifeform: um so which is it ?
asciilifeform: what 'won't work on glibc machines'
asciilifeform: because atm all i've got is glibcmachines
ave1: I made a mistake on the earlier assertion, it works on glibc machines
asciilifeform: hm ok
ave1: the scripts build statically compiles gcc/gnatmake compilers
ave1: so those will work everywhere
ave1: The whole static/dynamic statement was about the code generated by the compilers
ave1: Sorry, for the confusion
asciilifeform: ave1: what's CC_BASE_PREFIX ?
ave1: Aha, I should have cleared that one, it will be overridden by the build-ada.sh script
ave1: I.E. it's the directory under which all the compilers will be installed
asciilifeform: ave1: so where ought i to set this dir ?
ave1: You can clear it or keep it, You'll need to run ./ada-build.sh <DIR>
ave1: that DIR can be whatever you want
ave1: the final compilers are not depended on that part
ave1: i.e. you can copy them to other dirs if wanted
ave1: (sorry build-ada.sh)
ave1: A sorry, I stand corrected, it needs to be an absolute directory name
asciilifeform: ave1: ( have you tested this on a box that has never seen musl ? ^this is what i got. )
ave1: Yes I have developed and run this on a computer without musl
ave1: (a modern redhat system also, just for fun)
ave1: The only system I was unsuccessful so far was a machine without static libraries
ave1: btw successful build of the whole thing takes about 3 hours on my machine
asciilifeform: btw ave1 the only WITH_ARCH i see in your text is 'armv7'. so how does it work on aarch64 ?
asciilifeform: what am i missing
ave1: look at build-ada.sh (I did not update the documents etc)
asciilifeform: ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cSP4C/?raw=true << is what i see. doesn't answer the riddle
asciilifeform: show me where it turns into --with-arch=aarch64
ave1: done by build-tarballs.sh
asciilifeform: ( and yes i ran it, and possibly in 3hrs i'll see what came out of it, but currently i suspect that it's gonna build 32bit elfs )
asciilifeform: ave1: out of curiosity, didja look at the output ? what bitness is it ?
asciilifeform: ( of the compiler that you produced, that is, when it builds e.g. ffa )
asciilifeform also curious re why the port required 300kB of patch, incl to .adb/.ads of gnat, but possibly this will be answered later
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/04/australian-government-pursues-critics-as-racketeering-organization/ << Qntra - Australian Government Pursues Critics As "Racketeering Organization"
phf: “Happy Birthday, Karl Marx. You Were Right (nytimes.com)”
mircea_popescu: jews itching for more lime.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in urban exploration, https://78.media.tumblr.com/f71ae9ad47441b6d9b2ae0f62a32a567/tumblr_nraxucVa9S1ribksno7_1280.jpg
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 15:10 BingoBoingo: NOTHING is drying out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, check this shit out : http://mulyadi.staff.uns.ac.id/2013/06/19/proses-desain-menurut-archer/
mircea_popescu: pinoy actually uses shanonizing as THE, not an, but THE intellectual mode of life.
asciilifeform: sadly my indonesian-fu is weak
mircea_popescu: pengumpulan data and analisis mengidentifikasi submasalah.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i expect submasalah is the hottentottenmutter stottertrottel version of sub[missive]-massah-allah.
asciilifeform: reminds me, of how asciilifeform once time thought that the common surname 'subrahmanian' refers to something like a lieutenant-brahmin
asciilifeform: i.e. like подполковник ( lt colonel ) to полковник (colonel)
mircea_popescu: well, i always thought polkovnik is a guy who brings graft money.
asciilifeform: sub- <-> под- .
mircea_popescu: plocon, in ro.
mircea_popescu: (gift to the sublime porte)
asciilifeform: lol, полк is a ploc ?!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the well of knowledge, pushing the infinite boundaries of darkness towards their core that spawned them, i give you... WOMAN! https://78.media.tumblr.com/dfa482d3716c7dd79d85a2ccf8dcff60/tumblr_nraxucVa9S1ribksno9_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: sadly the discoveries are unactionable and incommunicable.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu has a pretty good oubliette design on trilema a while bacj
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806501 << this is very muych so ; even entriely banal procedures that built and butressed cont9inued human occupation of their sad patches of soil, like say putting up preserves for the winter, are far outside their mental scope. unlike whatever irrelevant pantsuit fashions, which never did jack measurable anything, but which are all they fucking talk about.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 15:51 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806496 << first world "men" don't understand the concept of hygiene, i suspect that as the infrastructure starts failing this would be the number one reason of rapid decay. hygiene not just in a sense of "washing hands", but the idea that there's certain procedures that you have to follow in order to not get fucked over by the environment
mircea_popescu: i can't begin to describe how infinitely more mindnumbingly boring some moron derping on about priviledge, women's rights, blacks whatevers is when compared to any old bitty that wants to talk of nothing but cheap meals and best way to make prune jam.
mircea_popescu: the latter is entirely the reason ireland didn't go the way of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-16#1725493
a111: Logged on 2017-10-16 15:59 mircea_popescu adds this to his private "annals of orc history", in there with the scottish empire at darien and stuffs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806515 << recall the black genius kid who made a clock out of "household materials" such as... a clock ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 16:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806449 << this appears to be honest work, but if you look at what he actually did, and with what resources, the 'imponade' evaporates away -- he made a coupla-transistor ic , and with 'garage' filled with a princely collection of surplus industrial gear ( electron microscope, sputtering chamber, ~very~ high end optical microscopes, incl. the one he junkyard-wars'd into a lithography box ) ,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaha. sorta like a high-tech version of it. or moar general phenomenon of 'easy to make $mil: begin with $bil..'
asciilifeform: on one hand, d00d ~did~ demonstrate grasp of the physical principles behind ic. on other hand -- to offer the result up in the dressing it is offered in -- is, to put it softly, misleading.
mircea_popescu: iirc one of the usg's own oligarchs (ie, inept dorks given money by a govt to pretend they're businessmen and can compete with us, exactly in the vein of http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-185.266-185.1138 ) even SAID THOSE WORDS.
mircea_popescu: and it's true, of course. for the moartea-ca-o-veste-buna folk, that's exactly how everything goes, "how to make shit ? start with bread."
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806493 << now you know what a vagina feels like! << What about menopause?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 15:10 BingoBoingo: NOTHING is drying out
asciilifeform: recall the legend ( i have nfi from what country it originated..) re the clever scammer who sold counterfeiters 'dollar printing machine', which worked great until hidden box ran out of dollarz
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806521 << i'll tell you what it would look like. every seen one of those large acid sheets back at the acid sheet factory ? before being broken into tiny bits for the street vendors ? THAT. except of course in reverse, let me print bits and smash them together into large fabrics. EVEN IF they're not nm.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 16:16 asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, arguably menopausal vagina not anymore vagina than engine on foil is car.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )
asciilifeform: rather than, e.g., physically moving microscopic parts ( generally a nonstarter )
mircea_popescu: and you'd make this sea-in-skin womb in your garage ?
mircea_popescu: i don't dispute this is where it's headed, human reproduction system took the "we shall emulate original sea" step of eggs one notch further, yes.
asciilifeform: ~expose~ in garage. where made -- less important. because specificity-of-diddling .
asciilifeform: ( maker of the film has nfi what will be exposed on it, where . )
mircea_popescu: but you're just doing what he did in a more... encapsulated way.
asciilifeform: nope. and i'd think the diff is pretty clear
mircea_popescu: where -- less important, if, of course, you have a placenta factory.
mircea_popescu: it's something like bullet. "hard to make gunpowder, need saltpeter" "i know, we'll make these little cartridges, with the needed saltpeter included" "yes but now you need a bullet factory"
BingoBoingo: And it turns out the locals get YET ANOTHER fucking holiday tomorrow. This one is because they claim they LABOR!
asciilifeform: b&w photography is imho correctly seen as 'garage affair', notwithstanding that not 1 in 100,000 photohobbyists could produce the film
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, may 1st dood.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, let's call it a ~design~ notation process, rather than fabbing ?
asciilifeform: the diff is in re how commoditizable/fungible the raw material. it is not trivial to make paper that'll feed a laser printer and not catch fire / clog the rollers, but no one suffers any shortage of said paper today, it is produced on massive scale and sold for half penny / sheet
BingoBoingo: New year is January 1st. Is there a second parallel Jew year that starts in May?
asciilifeform: because universal/fungible.
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing the encapsulation doesn't havfe advantages. it does, which is why yes, laser paper universal as well as palcental mammals universal.
asciilifeform: raw pcb feedstock, while not same as paper, is also pretty cheap. and if ic were produced via process as simple as pcb is produced, ic fabric would also cost similarly.
mircea_popescu: and yes, it's prolly where it's going.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, which brings us back to what i said, "even if not nm"
asciilifeform at one time made own pcb routinely, 2sided even, and all of the req'd kit fit in a suitcase and most of it obtainable at photography shops
mircea_popescu: my problem with the ZX processors IS EMINENTLY NOT that "they're too big". is that i can't buy 500k of them and lego them up.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta have at least 1uM process, to be of practical use, by my reckoning
mircea_popescu: intel "solving" thge wholly hallucinated (if self-servingly) non-"problem" of "smaller process" is not helping me. it's helping "its shareholders", ie usg.
asciilifeform: 'lego them up' very quickly gives fridge-sized thing that runs at 500kHz.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, but 1micro and 14 nano are not fucking similar. at all.
asciilifeform: 1uM --> e.g. bolix lispm.
asciilifeform: or 386.
mircea_popescu: there's an exponential at work. which is the point here -- meshable micro will beat tyhe shit out of "color of bits" imperial bullshit.
asciilifeform: moar than adequate for the sort of things we do, if massaged properly.
mircea_popescu: so yes, in conclusion, exactly as you say the linkd fellow is misdirected, and in EXACTLY in the manner discussed in http://trilema.com/2018/the-republic-without-mp/#selection-153.0-165.95
mircea_popescu: in front of this, whether we idly decide that he's just dumb or actually evil, ie, his brain dun work like in the case of say bernstein ; or his brain doth work, but he deliberately attempts to shannonize republican words into imperial outcomes, a la curtis yarvin, jwz, whatever.... well what fucking difference does it make.
asciilifeform: in the particular case -- i suspect simple failure of imagination.
asciilifeform: d00d has nfi that classical ic fab is technopolitical dead end.
asciilifeform: ( nor, i suspect, even knows how to conceptualize this )
mircea_popescu: how would he have known. if not read it here, what, invent on own ? invent everything on own ?
mircea_popescu: got no time for that, too busy wanking with high end microscopes.
mircea_popescu: !#s frantic activity as a cover for impotence
a111: 4 results for "frantic activity as a cover for impotence", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=frantic%20activity%20as%20a%20cover%20for%20impotence
asciilifeform: well ~somehow~ he conceived of the notion that 'fab dun have to cost $bil' but took it no further than the folx discussed in the 'gas tank additive THEY dun want you to know!' thread
mircea_popescu: maybe in time.
asciilifeform periodically looks for some evidence, somewhere, that anybody has even conceived of working on 'polaroid-style' fabbing; to date found 0 , public or otherwise
asciilifeform discounts wankage where 'each transistor takes 3min to etch', esp. from grant-eaters, as simple grantsmanship
asciilifeform: ^ ion beam epitaxy, for instance, is this
mircea_popescu: they're fixated on "find some practical need for ion beams". nfi.
mircea_popescu: space wars, cancer curing, computer making, peeling potatoes, whatever the fuck.
mircea_popescu: turns out that's not really what ion beams are.
asciilifeform: it's an off-the-shelf industrial power tool, wat. already has use. just, no good for 'from empty crystal' ic-makin'.
mircea_popescu: (ie, expensive to make, eminently useless in practice)
asciilifeform: ( it is used for reversing, when you want to cut particular trace, or create one, or strip away sumthing )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but they keep taking it off the shelf and gueing it to weather balloons to "Space flight" etc.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 barfology: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5Yn0Y/?raw=true ( after 2+ hrs , and yes box has gnat 2016, and paths set in env )
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 ... and it is infuriatingly annoying that yer thing demands 'build' dir be deleted each time, starting the 3hrs from 0 for each attempt
mircea_popescu: ave1, and lest it's get lost in the chatter, your work is very much appreciated.
mircea_popescu: heck, i am now contemplating the strict unthinkable years ago, a sane build process for eulora server o.O
asciilifeform very muchly appreciates the... effort; but so far neither of the gnat builders actually worked in asciilifeform's hands
mircea_popescu: even a mediocre child takes nine months to bake.
asciilifeform: it is even conceivable that asciilifeform's hands grow out of his arse; so it'd be handy if somebody else were to try the $item
mircea_popescu: if only the guarantee of not being mediocre could be obtained, i could see myself blessing slavegirls with much longer travails.
ave1: asciilifeform: the exact same line in my build output shows almost the same -I directories, except all end with adalib/../adainclude, that last part '../adainclude' seems to be missing on your side. I will start a rebuild with some extra logging on that line. I will get back to it tomorrow. In the mean time, I have only set the path to the adacore gnat tools and I do not have any other GNAT* flags or CFLAGS or LDFLAGS etc. etc.
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 24 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> barfology: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5Yn0Y/?raw=true ( after 2+ hrs , and yes box has gnat 2016, and paths set in env )
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 24 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> ... and it is infuriatingly annoying that yer thing demands 'build' dir be deleted each time, starting the 3hrs from 0 for each attempt
asciilifeform: ave1: i have http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XzKdk/?raw=true in my .bash_profile ( actually identical on all of my gnat2016 boxen )
asciilifeform: and it worx for building e.g. ffa.
asciilifeform: but apparently not for your builder
asciilifeform: from your log it looks as if it is looking for some build-local version of adainclude, rather than the machinewide one ?
ave1: Yes, I will also try with those two flags now... (Could you try without?)
ave1: No it should pick up the system build one
asciilifeform: waitasec without what, specifically ?
ave1: ADA_OBJECTS_PATH and ADA_INCLUDE_PATH
asciilifeform: without these, gnat dun work at all
asciilifeform: for building anything whatsoever
asciilifeform: ( try it )
ave1: hmmm, I've never had to set these before
ave1: I've run on multiple systems (ubuntu and redhat), procedure has been to unpack the adacore binary file, set path and go (no ADA_*_PATH)
ave1: Ofcourse, I will see how these flags influence the script and fix what needs to be fixed.
asciilifeform: ave1: i've confirmed that all of the paths, as they appear in the snippet, actually contain their respective items
asciilifeform: strace actually shows , loox like, the culprit : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3jZbc/?raw=true << ( only last lines shown )
asciilifeform: and i will point out that 'adainclude.ali' does not exist on ANY of my systems.
asciilifeform: nor have i any idea from whence it could come, and where it exists.
asciilifeform: nor does it seem to exist in the given tarballs.
ave1: As far as I can see, the culprit is this part "-I/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib /opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib/../adainclude", It contains a space in the "-I", so now gnatmake thinks it needs to build an "adainclude" which will fail. I'll look into how these vars a set. (It's the ADA_INCLUDES flag in the makefile).
mircea_popescu: aaand mpex is back via mpex.biz.
asciilifeform: oh hey neato. link from phuctor worx again!
mircea_popescu: will keep an eye out for a day or two just in case. complaints y quejas go here <
asciilifeform: ( the individual pgs, e.g. snsa, dun seem to yet )
asciilifeform: they redirect to main pg
mircea_popescu: sample link plox ?
mircea_popescu: i...see it. wtf shenanigans be these.
mircea_popescu: now this is some primo strange.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly you have a handwritten mpex.biz entry in /etc/hosts and points to different box ?
mircea_popescu: ima be looking into.
mircea_popescu: thx for the reporting.
asciilifeform: oh hey it worx!
mircea_popescu: hey douchebag you about ?
PeterL: Hello #trilema
mircea_popescu: hi PeterL
PeterL: mircea_popescu: I remember seeing sometime in the logs you said (but I can't find it now) something along the lines of: girls that have sex have cleaner smelling cunt than the one who doesn't get any?
mircea_popescu: i don't specficially remember this ; but possibly. frequently used item generally in better shape than disused.
PeterL: like I said, can't find it now, but at the time I thought of replying: cunt is self-cleasing when it self-lubricates
mircea_popescu: this is equivocating the meaning of "cleanning". smegma fulfills the same role, biologically, but it is also the paragon of uncleanliness in social terms.
PeterL: *self-cleansing - or however it should be spelled
PeterL: I guess the religionsts would impart a different meaning to "clean" as well
mircea_popescu: that's what my comment would probably have been directed at, i guess : that the religious notion of purity is not merely impractical, but counterfactual.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806628 << doesn't the current process already involve exposing light to make the masks?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 18:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )
asciilifeform: PeterL: indeed it does. however it also involves sputtering ( in, naturally, high vacuum ) to deposit metal, HF (and other nasties) to etch it away , and various other painfuls
asciilifeform: not to mention the 'clean room' business, where 1 flake of skin easily is enuff dirt to ruin ~several~ chips
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, with the ever lowering cost of robotics, there is some hope even classical ic process will become manageable.
asciilifeform: 'polaroid' is not the only possible scheme for ic sanity. could also have something akin to current-day 'dye sublimation' printer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubtful, for same reason that electron microscope has not become any cheaper. high vacuum system is a bitch, and exactly same bitch today as in 1930.
asciilifeform: and HF is same bitch today as in 1800s.
mircea_popescu: those two parts least amenable, yes. clean room, maybe more.
mircea_popescu: but certainly, lotta space to cover.
asciilifeform: 'clean room' solves itself if you could somehow get 100% of the process to fit in a reasonably small hermetic box..
asciilifeform: ( and somehow admit the feedstock like film is admitted into camera, i.e. without introducing dust )
mircea_popescu: well, it already fits ; just box is too large. you want smaller box. miniaturization has been the trend forever, and maybe miini's law still holds.
asciilifeform: ideally you want a 'polaroid'-sized box, i.e. a fungible cartridge that starts out as coupla grams of sandwiched $layers, and ends up after exposure as $ic
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in ~factory~ machinery, afaik the trend's been quite the opposite ( small manufacturers of ic existed in 1970s by the thousand, in 1980s -- by the hundred, today -- gone. )
asciilifeform: trend's been entirely towards 'britneyization', 'economy of scale', 'build 500x larger and costlier production line but make $1 cheaper dies'
mircea_popescu: well yeah. small process did that.
asciilifeform: aaha. the smaller the 'nanometrage', the moar incatronic the process.
asciilifeform: ( iirc not long ago there was thread re the world's only 10nm fab, belonging to usg )
mircea_popescu: kinda transparently the driver there. "not so much economically useful, as politically expedient -- we want to 'no one else' it"
asciilifeform: the other driver, given as the 'nm shrinkage' is ~100% wintel-driven -- 'moar room for microshit bloat'
asciilifeform: they stave off the complexicollapse, same way as the fed pushed forward the monetary one
asciilifeform: 'it will run on next yr's 10nm' etc
mircea_popescu: gotta provide employment for all these "engineer" boys.
mircea_popescu: rather than plainly admit, like the arabs do, that ~90% of males are going to die as 30yo virgins ; allah will provide
asciilifeform: dunno that it even works in this direction; granary with busted walls is not 'to provide employment for 9000 mice', they just show up.
mircea_popescu: and next week -- 90`000.
asciilifeform: in, say , 1950s, they had many fewer engineers (there was not this peculiar compulsion to conscript errything with a pulse into 'engineering' ) and the ones they had, designed autobahn ramps, there was all the employment they could use
a111: Logged on 2014-11-16 18:45 asciilifeform: so, as described in my 'going nowhere' article, the modern winblows pc is in fact less efficient for virtually any practical purpose than its predecessors two decades earlier, despite a titanic amount of effort poured into the cpu micro-optimizations
asciilifeform: ( and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560740 , and there was a particular link some time in past yr which i now cannot find, where someone actually went and ~measured~ the reaction time delay of msdos, various winblowz boxen from past 20yr, crapple, bolix, etc etc and found exactly what i'd expect him to find )
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:52 asciilifeform: trinque: 0 palpable delay between key and event was always the standard, and will forever remain the standard.
mircea_popescu: yes well.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile govt bought the "gotta provide for the ppl" nonsense.
mircea_popescu: so... it's providing.
douchebag: hey mircea_popescu
douchebag: what's up?
mircea_popescu: douchebag, let me run this by you see what you think.
mircea_popescu: so, i want to run a little experiment, see if bioware can actually outperform my machinery as it stands, and perhaps learn a thing or two.
mircea_popescu: the way this would work in practice is : ima pay people to post links to trilema with a 50-100 word comment on forums. i figure it's worth what, a coupla bux ?
mircea_popescu: what i want you to do is first run this as a pilot ; and then see if you can find boys wanting to earn.
mircea_popescu: make an "information product" out of it, whatever.
douchebag: oh yeah I can do that no problem
mircea_popescu: the idea is to scale it up to whatever you can find, hundreds, thousands ? MILLIONS!
mircea_popescu: !Qlater tell ckang you want in on this ?
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, anyway, does that make sense ? questions or anything ?
douchebag: Yeah, does the 50-100 words have to be anything in particular?
mircea_popescu: well, it'd help if it were contextually related.
douchebag: sounds good
mircea_popescu: douchebag, aite, so do a hundred or so, gpg me the links when done, and we can talk about how to franchise it after ?
douchebag: sounds good
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in adolescentine sexual practices, https://78.media.tumblr.com/08351997b65cf2bae4b3bd7db3909986/tumblr_nprm26qbOO1tfjnbco1_400.gif aan https://78.media.tumblr.com/77eec18157f25e241c29246aa264ff32/tumblr_nprm26qbOO1tfjnbco3_400.gif
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000298.html << Lords & Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, enclosed is a defect I found in existing TRB, it's analysis, and fix.
mircea_popescu: mod6, nice find.
mircea_popescu: i still don't fully understand what it actually does. basically, breaks an init ?
mod6: So this one is rather ugly; however, after analysis it appears that to step on the landmine one would have to pass a lower case 'o' to the ParseHex function. Which is outside the Hexadecimal range 0-9A-F. Not that someone couldn't do it, just that my guess is that the probability of hitting it is lower.
mod6: So to recap :
mod6: In the array, there is a missing ',', which causes gcc/g++ not to puke, and simply ADDS(!) the two values together... in this case we had ,-1 -1, giving us -2. This does 2 things, shortens the filled depth of the array by 1, and changing the value from -1 (at index 111) to -2 (0xfe).
mod6: You would hit index 111 if one passed an 'o' to ParseHex, triggering the landmine. What is supposed to happen, is; the loop is supposed to break if it ever hits -1 (0xff). However, if we hit  (0xfe) -2, we continue on.
mod6: So it's really a two headed ugly bug.
mod6: The reason that I did the analysis so in depth, I wanted to absolutely get to the bottom of how bad this could be.
mod6: And it turns out, perhaps by luck alone, that they missed a comma on one value that is outside the normal character values for hexadecimal. If they had missed a comma somewhere in there, whoa. Could mean all kinds of bad things - OR perhaps they would have just caught it earlier as nothing would have worked right lol.
mod6: The thing that really threw me off during the analysis is that before and after test drivers were both yielding the same, correct, result. So I had to dig way in and debug to see exactly where to spring the trap.
mod6: And now it makes sense because the initial test case I was using was all values in the normal hexadecimal range.
mircea_popescu: i see.
mod6: Once I fed it this string "ab6o78", that sprung the trap (see the GDB debugging portion near the bottom).
mircea_popescu: thanks for the work.
mod6: Of course! Happy to do it. :]
BingoBoingo: Nice find mod6
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in latest mosfilm news, "imperium" is the pantsuit v2.0 on donnie brasco. with the acting stars of the age (that harry potter cocksucker) and everything!
mircea_popescu: one really should watch the two side by side to appreciate the sheer depth this soviet soyuz fell in but twenty short years.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to state it ; the streets of 70s ny are now cubicals ; the "that ain't the question" is some nigger's whine about "bombed villages" ; this age's depp "speaks arabic" as the magical god-downloaded-just-in-time hero ball. and so fucking on until you fall over.
mircea_popescu: so much pantsuit wank wrapped in itself\
asciilifeform: oh hey is it based on that oddball 'nazi' treatise ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, the mafia is now "white supremacists"
asciilifeform: the one by f. p. yockey
mircea_popescu: utterly unfucking watchable, i haven't even manage to get out of the establishing unrelated info part.
mod6: BingoBoingo: Cheers!
mircea_popescu: anyway, same old plot.
mircea_popescu: and of course no beautiful chicks, apparently female beauty is as much verboten in 2018 us as it was in 1988 su.
asciilifeform likes the '88 su.
mircea_popescu: show me a soviet hottie from the 80s.
asciilifeform: !#s на вкус и цвет товарищей нет
a111: 1 result for "на вкус и цвет товарищей нет", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%B2%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%81%20%D0%B8%20%D1%86%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%82%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%B9%20%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%82
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, they're secret ?
asciilifeform: not seekrit, but unportable; we're unlikely to agree .
mircea_popescu: no agreement is sought. not like we're packing a cinematic capsule for mars and can only fit one removed head.
mircea_popescu: but absent statement, ima suspect something like ambiguously manly bystritskaya.
asciilifeform: see, if one were to ask asciilifeform , even a haphazardly-thrown dart into 1980s su will hit one, e.g. https://archive.li/2VPRj ( tbf does include some older era pics also )
mircea_popescu: but let's take the case of say drubich. chick didn't even WANT to be an actress ; yet her career conveniently spans the gap, and if you compare her work in the 80s with her work in the 90s, you can readily see the uglification effect of an all-soviet soyuz. even conquers age, somehow 30yo woman looks WAY THE FUCK better than her own teen self.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/05/qntra-s-qntr-april-2018-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) April 2018 Report
mircea_popescu: https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w300_and_h450_bestv2/rkmYIFbK0ooOgkxMdCB1aJGWs4Y.jpg << - >> http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Tatiana-Drubich-27.jpg
asciilifeform: the one on right hand, has moar skin an' moar photoshop... not 'fair fight'
mircea_popescu: this is the whole fucking point. when the soviets are in charge they decide female sexual competition "not fair" hurr durr. everyone gets lazy, ugly and stupid.
mircea_popescu: whole fucking point is that it's not fair nor will it ever be fair. cheat.
mircea_popescu: https://78.media.tumblr.com/e516da884d9237b8481e7875b18c642b/tumblr_neqjl7Hrbi1tgx3vwo1_1280.jpg << most unsoviet item.
asciilifeform: dun have to like sovok, but to blame it for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791180 is ahistoric
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 03:40 mircea_popescu: and "peasant civilisation" as in mirvniki or the wooden civilisation that covered the hills of transylvania as late as the 1800s is "both must repress"
mircea_popescu: but the idea isn't that 1980s chickie ~couldn't~ have been beautiful. of course could have been. the problem is that there wasn't who to put random clothespins on her nippes so she actually WAS beautiful. and for lack of that, well... she might as well could not have been, because unactualized potential and absent potential are not distinct in any sense.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's orig point was precisely that... the clothespins dun do nuffin for asciilifeform . may as well be a hat with feather, or 9000 other things he's entirely insensitive to. and even the skins, i prefer the unedited ones. just-so.
asciilifeform: hence 'unlikely to agree'.
mircea_popescu: you are aware i was using it in the general, to denote the whole kit and kaboodle, high heels, proper posture, not being a lazy fuck, etc ?
asciilifeform: heels ditto
mircea_popescu: ~NONE~ of it does anything for you ?
asciilifeform: i hesitate to say 'none', possibly i agree with mircea_popescu's taste ~somewhere~
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: alf-aesthetics is a rough pass filter
asciilifeform: but i suspect that we came off conveyor with pretty much opposite set of antifuses .
mircea_popescu: you are aware that "safe space" campuses with "no rape" ~= unwashed cunts yes ?
asciilifeform: not aware, but will have to take mircea_popescu's word for it, if he saw this.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation presenets the STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS for the month of April, 2018: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-May/000299.html
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it was in the log this morning. with peterl lol.
asciilifeform: ( tho in usa folx wash obsessively, to the point of annihilating their skin bacteria dangerously )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but not there. because THEY CANT SEE IT. the difference between pantsuitism and aneurism -- minimal.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( tho in usa folx wash obsessively, to the point of annihilating their skin bacteria dangerously ) << Two of the potato nigger femayos insisted on wearing tank tops while they had actively draining boils in their armpits
mircea_popescu: poor bb.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8D28AAA08DE342FF2B891D133AC795D63BDE257A9CE91FC400A285CF0255AC24 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1482...2117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806862 << On the plus side more common than Potato Niggers are identical Argentine Schoolgirls
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 00:29 mircea_popescu: poor bb.
BingoBoingo: But the Cowork is frankly boring. Insufficient turnover there. Same Uruguayos dicking around on photoshop and playing Pinoy all the time.
mircea_popescu: argentine schoolgirls ?!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure, There were a good number of times in January-February where my roommates for the night would be 7 identical argentine schoolgirls. They would sit in a circle and stare at their phones for hours, but at least they understand the importance of ventilation
BingoBoingo: And they make fine room decor hanging about in their lacy things.
BingoBoingo: Another time a family with children booked the other beds in my room and despite "No guests under 18" they were here during one of the Carnaval weekends
mircea_popescu: heh w/e.
mircea_popescu: "better os because apps have gone to hell and here's some bits from wikipedia. paypal."
asciilifeform: seems to contain a number of kindergarten c/asm tutorials by some orc, and little else
mircea_popescu: it's a great thing he made his own genesis that isn't.
mircea_popescu: if the population of venice consisted of these fucks, the turks would have discovered a decrepit fisherman's village populated of a bunch of stiff retards gathered on the beach pointing at the sea.
mircea_popescu: "are you doing anything here ?" "we're showing the way!"
ben_vulpes: on the topic of OSen, there's also alphabet's new "very much not linux" https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/
mircea_popescu: o look, fsf totally won.
mircea_popescu: it's not proper to call it linux, it's gnu/linux, ok ? the inept crud on the side mattered, as proven by the fact that it was left behind once the core was stolen!
mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/172Wm6TXmfnUGp9yXPorJrhRZzj4PSqRor << not even enough of a clue to seed his busking hat, the orc.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu : what sort of sv usg.corp would it be if it did not ( like e.g. crapple ) have own 'microkernel' abomination
mircea_popescu: a slightly less retarded one ?
asciilifeform: think, they collaborated on 'killing' gcc ( to be rid of the human mushroom ) and nao ditto for linuxkernel ( to be rid of the not always-cooperative linus )
asciilifeform: and in long term to set the stage for 'we finally standardized pc hardware' ( on googlenintendo naturally )
asciilifeform: i.e. to take over the old functions of usg.microshit.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 19:58 mircea_popescu: aaand mpex is back via mpex.biz.
mod6: I kinda dig the clothes-pins.
mod6: Strictly speaking, that's a very nice rack of tits, but the clothes-pins add some nice aesthetic.
mircea_popescu: not to mention ease of handling
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's the fate of all government-powered pretend-business : to be rolled up into ever larger dollops, eventually a single one.
mircea_popescu: gosplan is gosplan.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff this is not how orig gosplan worked. ( there was a multitude of -- de-facto independent -- factories , often overlapping in subj matter )
mircea_popescu: originally. then they slowly got absorbed into larger items
mircea_popescu: kinda the problem with imaginary objects. they converge.