Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-01-22 | 2018-01-24 → ↓
mod6: BOO, NOT COOL
mircea_popescu: lol she's not permitted to talk to you dangerous characters! at least not yet!
mod6: haha
shinohai: Was wondering why they didn't reply this past morning: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773920
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 12:35 shinohai: Greetings emmylark
shinohai: One of *yours*
douchebag: Does anyone in here have suggestion on learning x86 and x64 ASM?
douchebag: And low level memory exploitation? Those are some areas I'm interested in learning about but I need to learn more.
trinque: I dunno about low level exploitation leetsauce, but when I was learning some ppc asm I wrote a sad little scheme in the stuff
mircea_popescu: douchebag you could try writing your own c compiler. it's traditionally how this is taught afaik.
mircea_popescu: doesn't have to be fancy/portable/optimizing/etcetera.
douchebag: Ooh interesting idea, I'll have to look more into that
mircea_popescu: c not c++ mind. and it's not THAT hard.
douchebag: I started class today, my teacher provides every assignment the first day of class I'm pretty sure I can complete it all in a few days so I suppose I'll have plenty of time to focus on that throughout this semester
mircea_popescu: why not.
douchebag: mircea_popescu: I want a career as a pentester, so far I feel I'm doing pretty good in terms of getting experience and reputation in the community. Do you have any suggestions for ways I that could get further on my career path?
mircea_popescu: well, the problem with it is that it's not actually much of a career path.
douchebag: What do you mean?
mircea_popescu: here's what i mean : being a doctor is a career path. you have to, mind, HAVE TO go to a certain fixed form schooling ; there's no dispute as to this. after you do, every year you practice you get better, and your market value improves. eventually decay sets in and you retire.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, being an "academic" is not a career path. you can in principle go to any sort of school or none whatsoever to make an academic as good as any other, and nobody could discern this by examining you -- ie, there's a lot of dispute as to the training format. after you do or do not, every year you practice you stay at most as good as you were, and your market value generally decreases. eventually they "revolutionize" th
mircea_popescu: e field from under your feet and while you never retire, you also stop counting for anything.
mircea_popescu: now, pentesting is type A, not type D.
mircea_popescu: there is ~some~ actual substance to it, however it's almost entirely a subclass of being a systems programmer.
mircea_popescu: hence my suggestion.
douchebag: Eventually, I would like to start a company of some sort providing security solutions to companies as well as hire pentesters to work for me.
mircea_popescu: according to some people, there's no market in this. eg http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aascii+0day+market
douchebag: Oh yes I understand that, I'm not really looking to sell 0day exploits, I mean starting a security company to provide penetration testing services to companies. A lot of places are required to hire a pentester or team of pentesters
douchebag: to try to avoid any security issues that could affect the company
mircea_popescu: do you understand the crystal ball problem ?
douchebag: Could you elaborate?
mircea_popescu: do you speak romanian ?
douchebag: No I do not
douchebag: Oh okay I understand
mircea_popescu: aite, here : "does ubervu have a chance of ever being profitable ? absolutely never. there's complicated considerations involved, but principally determinant two : first, and absolutely unsurmountable, is that such products do not add any value, but are merely used in the way witches use crystal balls. exactly in the way. therefore, the more popular witches decide the brand of "best" crystal balls
mircea_popescu: the cost of polishing a hunk of crystal into something more or less ballsyform are degrees of magnitude under the costs involved in convincing a top witch to support your balls. these products can therfore be successful if and only if they're pushed by a market dominator".
douchebag: I would like to be successful one day, I don't mind if I don't become super rich however I would like to be able to live rather comfortably and possibly retire early
mircea_popescu: obviously.
douchebag: I'm just not completely sure about how I am going to go about that
mircea_popescu: don't worry about it.
douchebag: After college and I get a few more certificates I'll be working a job paying roughly ~80-$100k/yr starting off
mircea_popescu: that's not so bad, is it.
douchebag: No not at all
douchebag: I've just been trying to think ahead about what I should do with my life. As of now I have a pretty solid plan in terms of getting started and whatnot, I'll definitely be living comfortable. I'm just not sure what I should try to do after that to
douchebag: improve myself
mircea_popescu: well why do you care, cross that bridge when you get to it.
douchebag: I'm just the type of person who likes to plan ahead, that's all
douchebag: I'm autistic.
mircea_popescu: "i'm the type of person who likes to smoke" "why ?" "a lot of cancer cases in my family". really now!
douchebag: I'm very high functioning, most people in real life cannot even tell until they have known me for a long time.
mircea_popescu: relax, go talk to girls. planning is best used in moderation.
douchebag: Oh I already have a girlfriend
mircea_popescu: that's an unrelated consideration.
trinque: douchebag: how do you define that "autism"
douchebag: I can sit in front of my computer for 36 hours straight researching a specific topic
douchebag: My interest typically take over my life
mircea_popescu: as alf says, "didn't everyone do that in kindergarten???"
trinque must have autisms, spent most of the weekend in trb guts
douchebag: I find it difficult to relate to most people
trinque: well they're awful, aren't they
mircea_popescu is enjoying this trinque branching out into talk therapy business.
douchebag: I don't have a single phobia nor do I flynch
mircea_popescu: might be the first person cured by republican methods.
mircea_popescu: wait, you have to have fobias ?!
douchebag: nope
douchebag: I also lack empathy
mircea_popescu: honestly your problem might be overexposure to underqualified "social workers" aka bums.
douchebag: idk, just typical autism stuff except I am a pretty normal person in terms of behaving properly, I don't enjoy social interaction much but I don't mind it
mircea_popescu: i dunno where you got these ideas, but they're without basis in fact or any merit whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: autism is not-this.
trinque: douchebag: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648758 << maybe a thread for ya.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 18:57 trinque spent months years ago not talking to a soul except as needed at work
douchebag: When I was younger I told a therapist that and she said that's all common for people with autism, and then I was diagnosed with autism my a doctor
trinque: this is indeed not autism. it's the cinders left where rage sits too long, used for nothing.
douchebag: If they got it wrong, I don't know what I have. I certainly know I'm not like most people
mircea_popescu: nobody is like most people ffs.
mircea_popescu: the average sex of the human race is half a ballsac with a labia.
douchebag: Idk, what I mean is that I cannot relate to others easily and I have noticed throughout my life that I get much more obsessed with my interest than normal people.
douchebag: I also have an extremely good memory compared to most people, I can remember very specific details about events and conversations that happened years prior
mircea_popescu: being inteligent / not a retard is not a disease.
trinque: douchebag: are you by chance from one of these hyper advanced nordic countries?
douchebag: Nope I'm actually in Chicago
trinque: d'oh lol
trinque: anyhow "having something" is a fashionable way of distracting from your parents having utterly failed you, meaning to or not.
douchebag: Eh, I'm not ashamed of myself I'm rather happy I am the way I am. Honestly
douchebag: I feel that it's quite useful in terms of learning new stuff
trinque: all I hear is "am male and have interests"
trinque: bit sad you're calling that a disease, eh?
trinque is curious if the diagnosis came with a prescription.
mircea_popescu: "don't go in trilema".
mircea_popescu: if they had any sense, at least.
douchebag: Eh, I was mentioning that stuff as a way to show how my "autism" doesn't negatively impact my life
mircea_popescu: douchebag nobody is surprised, but good for you anyways!
douchebag: trinque: I was only prescribed sleeping medications because I find it very difficult to fall asleep, but that is unrelated
trinque: yeah, they give you the ambien to sleep, then the amphetamines to get going, then the xanax to smooth out the amphetamine jitters
trinque: it's a circular business, wheel has to start somewhere
douchebag: Oh nah, I have done my fair share of experimenting with drugs but I no longer partake in that kind of stuff
hanbot: ty phf & mod6 for vdiff/ulimit fixes --former did the trick, hopefully i'll never need the latter but noted to self in case.
douchebag: In other news, I think this week I'm going to focus on finding an exploit in Pulse Connect Secure and writing a blog about that
mircea_popescu: what came of finding a trilema hole btw ?
douchebag: Not much actually, good job on securing your shit!
douchebag: If you have any other sites you'd want me to check out I can do that
mircea_popescu: actually, hanbot is about to genesis mp-wp, you're more than welcome to help down with the paring down effort of that, if you want. mostly php.
mircea_popescu: do you have a v system going yet ?
douchebag: v system?
mod6: hanbot: ok good deal.
douchebag: Ooh interesting
douchebag: How do I sign up?
diana_coman: douchebag, what do you want to sign up for?
douchebag: v system?
diana_coman: there's no sign up, lol; just either implement your own or otherwise at least get a signed one, read it and run it
douchebag: Oh alright, I must have misunderstood
diana_coman: as usual, use it, change it, do whatever you want with it
trinque: douchebag: mostly read, and start with those articles mircea_popescu gave you.
trinque: when you have a working v-tron locally maybe someone will give you something to do with it.
douchebag: forsure
diana_coman: question for anyone who studied keccak: do you see any reason for keccak itself to care about msb/lsb? the way I see it, keccak works at bit level, so it eats a stream of bits in the order they come in and it outputs another stream of bits in the order they come out, no need for lsb/msb dance per se
esthlos: hello all, vtronics question
esthlos: to determine if b.vpatch descends from a.vpatch, my idea is to scan through b.vpatch and ensure that each ---(file,hash) matches some +++(file,hash) in a.vpatch. is this the standard procedure?
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774614 << I have never seen a wire. I will intinsify my effort to suck less. I am trying to learn without falling into the outcome where we write this off as a learning experience.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 03:40 mircea_popescu: and in general if this current trend continues of 1. i ask for something ; 2. you deliver something entirely else ; 3. i point this out ; 4. nothing happens we're going to have a serious problem. how did you figure these are wire details, what, you never in your life saw a wire ? wtf is "Beneficiario Final: (Razón Social o Nombre Completo del Cliente y N° de Cuenta en Montevideo)" ?
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774593 << This has been a particularly painful lesson and an expensive one with respect to time.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 01:43 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know this $800 accountant was deeply fucking useless ; no bank account, no vat anullment, wtf.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774611 << Arranging trades today to test the waters.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 03:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo missing from this list of two items, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-21#1773456
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 03:38 mircea_popescu: other than that, these details are disfunctional. compile an actually correct and complete set, without "to be filled later" metasyntactic notations.
mircea_popescu: esthlos it is not standard procedure ; the emerging consensus is to have a dedicated philosophy file which a) all patches must touch (by protocol) ; b) contains comments as to the patcher's state of mind and c) contains one line per patch uniquely identifying it, machine generated. the format's not fixed yet, but as phf is working on a new proper vdiff it's probably going to coalesce around a variant of whatever he uses.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman as it currently stands it's a wonder it doesn't have ebcdic faggotry baked in also.
esthlos: ah, that's much simpler.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aite ; the one thing missing from your enumeration there, is "gpgram me the story of bbisp fiat holdings ab origine." ; what this means is, i want a list showing "hey, i got $8500 (or w/e the fuck it was) and i spent x, y, z, k, l, leaving me with q". you wrote me a story, as a literary exercise, i want a numeric thing. gpg & send.
mircea_popescu: there we go! nice!
BingoBoingo: It was in yesterday's jumble of gpggrams
BingoBoingo: Apologies for the failure to label clearly
mircea_popescu: it's so good, i'ma even publish it for later noobs. here : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/L3yym/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: that's how you do this, hear ye.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo an' dun drink no more, it dun work out well for you.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, I am just now starting to feel less physically ill
diana_coman: that is actually clearer than the monthly statements, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: i was mostly trying to ascertain whether he's got what to eat left.
mircea_popescu: btw BingoBoingo, the thing with the wire : the receiver has to have some way to identify it was ~you~ who sent it. this isn't bitcoin, this is legacy ebcdic crapola, you can very well end up in the situation of "well, we did receive some money mr, but what says it's yours".
mircea_popescu: need an acct # or something, it gets put in the notes.
mircea_popescu: contract number, something. does your contract have a number ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774768 << i must confess, very curious re what a 800bux network switch is
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 14:59 mircea_popescu: it's so good, i'ma even publish it for later noobs. here : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/L3yym/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> contract number, something. does your contract have a number ? << Asking. I have my registration number, but I am asking them for clarity.
mircea_popescu: in other news, it's so great that you can take a 2 year old article and it's actually fucking useful. but -- a point i think wasn't mentioned and it's a pity : i ~really~ like ben_vulpes code indentation style. those bars.
mircea_popescu: no way to link to selection, but grep for "Original first"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what spits out that "org-src-container" class ?
BingoBoingo: Also have a trade date this afternoon
mircea_popescu: you not gonna get mugged or anything, are you ? how do you have it arranged ?
BingoBoingo: Meet at mall of my choosing, drink coffee, escrow through the localbitcoins site, hopefully get useful information on el clima aca.
mircea_popescu: how much did that thing take ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai better titles! FUCKGOATS-unboxing.html why not.
asciilifeform: shinohai: what's on your pogo ?
shinohai: My pogo has the pl2303x driver :/
asciilifeform: WHAT is on your pogo
asciilifeform: all of it
asciilifeform: from where did the os come from
shinohai: Oh it's running the same Arch linux from old days, contains a copy of trb blockchain and naught else.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> how much did that thing take ? << site takes 1%, arrangements took little time to make
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: aite, ima be out hoeing, back laters!
mircea_popescu: douchebag re last night's convo : spyked is actually a (retiring, i think ?) security professor / researcher, you might want to also check out his blog.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought he was a student
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774633 << '9000' places to learn. e.g. the amd manual. or just about any www page on subj. or there's now even an apress b00k, iirc 'low-level programming', that's ~ok . or , or
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:11 douchebag: Does anyone in here have suggestion on learning x86 and x64 ASM?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:12 douchebag: And low level memory exploitation? Those are some areas I'm interested in learning about but I need to learn more.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774643 << this is a terrible idea. it is a tournament market. and by all indications (i.e. yer asking the q) , you're trying to join it as an adult. which promises to be a double-width shitsandwich.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:19 douchebag: mircea_popescu: I want a career as a pentester, so far I feel I'm doing pretty good in terms of getting experience and reputation in the community. Do you have any suggestions for ways I that could get further on my career path?
a111: Logged on 2015-06-25 00:49 mircea_popescu: there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-19 01:51 asciilifeform: 'One of various ways of organizing work that economists have identified, a tournament market "offers participants the chance of winning a big prize--an independent research career, tenure, a named chair, scientific renown, awards--through competition," writes Richard Freeman and co-authors. Tournament markets amplify "small differences in productivity into large differences in recognition and reward," Freeman an
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:25 douchebag: Eventually, I would like to start a company of some sort providing security solutions to companies as well as hire pentesters to work for me.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774654 << if being a 'they are REQUIRED to hire an X' X doesn't turn yer stomach, there are more lucrative usg.bureaucracies than the seekoority racket
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:28 douchebag: Oh yes I understand that, I'm not really looking to sell 0day exploits, I mean starting a security company to provide penetration testing services to companies. A lot of places are required to hire a pentester or team of pentesters
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774669 << if you're in usa or europistan, that's a 'staying above water' wage, nobody's retiring on that, 'early' or late or otherwise
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:36 douchebag: After college and I get a few more certificates I'll be working a job paying roughly ~80-$100k/yr starting off
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774662 << exactly this. some people grasp the lesson after reading ; some -- after 1, 2, 3, however many failed corps and debts and 100% wasted productive years of life and etc
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: aite, here : "does ubervu have a chance of ever being profitable ? absolutely never. there's complicated considerations involved, but principally determinant two : first, and absolutely unsurmountable, is that such products do not add any value, but are merely used in the way witches use crystal balls. exactly in the way. therefore, the more popular witches decide the brand of "best" crystal balls
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774749 << as a rule, if you NEVER byte-address, you can ignore endianism
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 11:47 diana_coman: question for anyone who studied keccak: do you see any reason for keccak itself to care about msb/lsb? the way I see it, keccak works at bit level, so it eats a stream of bits in the order they come in and it outputs another stream of bits in the order they come out, no need for lsb/msb dance per se
asciilifeform: observe, e.g., in ffa.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 05:13 trinque: burp
spyked: and hi all
asciilifeform: ohai spyked
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774802 <-- neh, I'm freshly outta PhD; and outta teaching since late 2016, but still doing that occasionally, mostly for the 1-10% of students who appreciate the beating.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought he was a student
spyked: re research: coincidentally, was reading http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-02#1635871 thread the other day and I can confirm diana_coman's experience.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-02 08:04 diana_coman: might mention that I was a post-doc at some point in life
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774633 <-- --> https://ocw.cs.pub.ro/courses/cns ; shameless plug, I wrote some of the materials there. but ftr, I completely agree with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774650 "security research" actually involves understanding systems; then only then e.g. the fundamental weakness of "C machines" becomes apparent.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:11 douchebag: Does anyone in here have suggestion on learning x86 and x64 ASM?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:23 mircea_popescu: there is ~some~ actual substance to it, however it's almost entirely a subclass of being a systems programmer.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 11188.0, vol: 19422.25940817 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 11176.0, vol: 71862.13969968 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 11201.1, vol: 5129.67823761 | Volume-weighted last average: 11179.7527926
asciilifeform: spyked: oh hey just earlier today there was a fella who asked for a freshman intro to exploitations .
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:18 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774633 <-- --> https://ocw.cs.pub.ro/courses/cns ; shameless plug, I wrote some of the materials there. but ftr, I completely agree with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774650 "security research" actually involves understanding systems; then only then e.g. the fundamental weakness of "C machines" becomes apparent.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Did not get mugged, he sent his girlfriend instead of appearing himself (or secretly is the girl)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: describe, for my education, what a trade like this looks like
asciilifeform: i.e. you showed up with a privkey, and other party -- with benjies ? or wat
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Used a web escrow thing to keep the kitten comfortable, they deliver benjies, I hit the release escrow button.
BingoBoingo: There was small talk
asciilifeform: so 'ebay'-style.
BingoBoingo: Well, strangers
asciilifeform: makes sense.
BingoBoingo: Was obvious to spot who the counterparty was when they entered the public meeting space. Meanwhile I had been comfortable seated for a bit with coffees on the table.
asciilifeform: obvious how
BingoBoingo: Body language
BingoBoingo: Nervous, carried self in manner that screamed latina holding more cash than accustomed to.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774654 <-- from my experience, learning for a purpose can lead to a personal place of misery. consider http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ ; if anything, rather study computing *because* people who know computer systems are needed today (hard to believe they won't be needed tomorrow either) than for any imagined fame and glory. the romantic image of pentester belongs only to "hacker" movies
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:28 douchebag: Oh yes I understand that, I'm not really looking to sell 0day exploits, I mean starting a security company to provide penetration testing services to companies. A lot of places are required to hire a pentester or team of pentesters
asciilifeform: spyked: the 'because people needed' is also , for this purpose, 'a purpose'
spyked: troo
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:28 asciilifeform: it also requires http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html .
a111: Logged on 2014-01-21 19:00 asciilifeform: "something important happens when a previously privileged position in society suddenly sees incredibly demand that needs to be filled, using enormous quantities of manpower. that happened to programming computers about a decade ago, or maybe two. first, the people will no longer be super dedicated people, and they won't be as skilled or even as smart -- what was once dedication is replaced by greed and someti
asciilifeform is astonished to regularly , as today, encounter folx who are apparently posting from a timewarp, maybe 1998-99 , where they labour under the delusion that 'why not go into programming, it's a guaranteed and comfortable living'
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least)
lobbes: This all hinges on v, and for a n00b like me that article is worth its weight in gold.
spyked: re naggum article, "programming is both similar and different. whether you are a user or a programmer these days is often hard to tell (this has good qualities to it, too)" <-- this user/programmer dichotomy being a direct consequence of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774116 maybe? ftr, /me started with a microcomputer and first thing he could do with it, by nature, was program it. even if the "program" consisted merely of LOAD ""
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 15:08 asciilifeform: the microcomputer was a massive step back, not merely technically ( that'd be fixable ) but sociopolitically.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YwTUK/?raw=true << Wire information with the name and number to throw in the notes
asciilifeform: spyked: load "*",8,1 !11111
spyked: asciilifeform, hm. I'm not familiar with that syntax. what does ,8,1 mean?
asciilifeform wonders which micro spyked had
spyked: asciilifeform: http://thetarpit.org/uploads/2015/02/hc-85.jpg (though mine was a HC 90 I think). Romanian ZX Spectrum clone, similar to many others discussed here
asciilifeform: aaa similar to what mircea_popescu had
spyked: yes, very! funny enough, one of the people who worked on that (while a student himself) became my PhD advisor. he recently showed me a contraption that ran Basic, CP/M *and* had extensions for apple ii compatibility. (with an extra memory module? was it? I dun remember; anyway, it was soldered to the motherboard using a pair of wires, because no place to stick it in. communism was harsh, but people made the best of it)
asciilifeform: in su also folx made boxes like this.
asciilifeform: in 1990s it was a cottage industry of sorts. ( asciilifeform was not there for this, only saw thirdhand rumours )
spyked should take some photos next time he goes to the faculty; maybe grab some docs for the archaeologists
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774622 << this was left non-deliberately, but it's a safe change. safer than having /bin/bash there. /bin/sh is posix, so any unix is going to have ~something~ there. on this freebsd machine /bin/sh is a pure posix shell, while bash lives in /usr/local/bin/bash
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 04:39 mod6: A last question that I had: The original uses /bin/bash, the new changes include changing the shell to /bin/sh, is this intended, if so, why?
asciilifeform: betcha there's incompatible sh out there.
asciilifeform: posix is a dead dream, deader than lispm.
asciilifeform: ( i dun disagree with phf's decision, as such. but must point out. )
spyked: btw, re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701132 I asked around for this at some point, unfortunately I couldn't get contact info on any of the authors; leftover iron/documentation could be buried at faculty of electronics tho
a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 19:29 spyked: asciilifeform, found something (in romanian) http://www.atic.org.ro/ktml2/files/uploads/Masina%20DIALISP.pdf there's also a more detailed english version on ACM sci-hub http://dl.acm.org.sci-hub.cc/citation.cfm?id=802028#
phf: well, there's another non-portable part there: awk i think is really gawk, but i don't know if linux consistently provides gawk command, so on unix it ought to be | gawk ..., but that might (?) fail in linux
phf: afair though, the subset of commands that we have in vdiff can be reduced to portable awk (i had it working on mac os x), but i don't remember what the necessary changes are. someone mentioned that busybox awk fails..
asciilifeform: phf: isn't classical vdiff headed for retirement anyway
phf: si
mod6: phf: aha. good deal. agreed that most machines i've ever seen have a /bin/sh, not all have a /bin/bash.
mod6: thanks for taking the time to make the fix & blog about how to repeat & test.
mod6: looking for a few others to repeat the same kinda testing that I did. when we get a few more "thumbsup", then will deed & post to foundation site.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774643 << you've been tricked, there's two kinds of pentesters: "modern" ones, which are basically a security equivalent of a coder, they are taught how to use nessus and metasploit effectively so that their parent company can charge $x for a regulatory assurance "penntesting performed, following findings communicated and addressed"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:19 douchebag: mircea_popescu: I want a career as a pentester, so far I feel I'm doing pretty good in terms of getting experience and reputation in the community. Do you have any suggestions for ways I that could get further on my career path?
trinque: fees have come *way* down.
phf: the traditional track is that you spend your teen years cracking video games for infinite lives, then you move on to defacements and other script kiddie activities, and then eventually you have so much practical knowledge that you can start charging people for actual useful discovery work
phf: if you're in the first category, you're going to be paid peanuts to do bitch work, if you're in the later category then by 19 (or whatever) "how to pentest career!1" is going to be ~the last fucking question~ you're going to ask a channel full of autodidacts
ben_vulpes: yw lobbes, glad it was useful for you
ben_vulpes: whoa megalog
asciilifeform: phf: 2nd category is no guarantee of megabux , either. ( but everybody, i'd hope, knew this. )
phf: oh man "how do i learn assembly", you learn assembly by reading through the assembly output of a pirated ida pro that you have attached to your favorite video game, because you trying to figure out where the inventory count is, duh
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774783 << "org mode", i haven't found else with which to htmlize coad
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 15:27 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what spits out that "org-src-container" class ?
asciilifeform: phf: aaha. i thought about answering douchebag , 'this is rather like asking where to learn to ballet' , but thought 'too harsh'
phf: well, what is that they say, americans learn to market themselves as the main skill? "how do i optimize the roi of my career track please". whatever happened to "i'm trying to make a sploit from this bugtraq, but my return rail is too short, and i can't get a jump going to proper place"???
lobbes: Understand, usg edumacation highly emphasizes "purposes" over "causes"
lobbes: From the very start. Do xyz, for purpose of "becoming w"
lobbes: Never once did I encounter "interested in something? Here's how you could keep following that interest"
lobbes: Well, very rarely, at least, did I encounter that. Not enough to make me take my 'schooling' any more seriously than 'find path of least resistance to fiatola pile'
lobbes: From that, feeds into all the socialist pandering to folx who "hey, I did xyz like you said! Why no w yet!?"
phf: i can see the education angle, and how it fails these people, but what i'm surprised about is the lack of personal drive? it's some kind of learned helplessness
lobbes: It appears such to someone with actual skills such as phf. But for one for whom it is a "well, what else is there?", it seems like the rational move
lobbes: Very much a cargo cultism, I would say. Cannot conceive of the workings of physics that even allow planes that drop payloads. Never been shown, or explained, by -anyone-. "Assembly code for favorite vidya game? But all my phriends just use "Game Shark" for their cheating levels"
phf: hmm
lobbes: And the new dawn of "babies watching youtubes" isn't gonna help this learned helplessness. Just cement it
trinque: I took it as more the kind of self-marketing they teach kids to "get into college"
trinque: kid was virtue signaling hard, "am strapping lad, going places!"
trinque: which, it's sorta appropriate for the age. it's frankly someone else's fault the strapping lads aren't being forced into productive activity.
ben_vulpes: ours mostly
trinque: aha
phf: right, sort of like how they used to ask "how do i learn hacking?" as an opener on kiddie channels
phf: "i'm useless, but i'm down with whatever you're into, older boys"
ben_vulpes: "127.0.0.1"!
phf: you'll laught but that's how i learned about 127.0.0.1 :F
phf: err :D
ben_vulpes: aha :P
phf: specifically a winnuke on 127.0.0.1.
phf: i guess the main differentiator is whether or not douchebag actually wants to hack, in which case it's going back to commodore thread. between esl education and ipad there's no obvious direction of exploration, that he can take the way we could take it in the 90s
ben_vulpes: relatedly, i discovered a computer in a 2.5y preschool classroom this am
ben_vulpes: "pardon me, but what on earth do you have the toddlers using /that/ for?"
ben_vulpes: "oh they like to cozy up to it and pretend to be business people. some even haul the cash register over too!"
trinque: they're trying to teach them autism, so later they mistake their lack of capacity for attention as such.
trinque: ftr "empathy" is not caring about anyone; it's being able to model them. not having it just means you were given ADD by the blinkenlights as a child.
trinque: aside the marginal actual medical cases of malformed brain, or w/e
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 20:10 phf: i guess the main differentiator is whether or not douchebag actually wants to hack, in which case it's going back to commodore thread. between esl education and ipad there's no obvious direction of exploration, that he can take the way we could take it in the 90s
trinque: gonna need a device someday to sit 'em down in, makes them track a red dot on the wall. if they lose it, electric shocks to the bum and the dot moves faster.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 19:27 asciilifeform: to revisit the micros : it is interesting that NOBODY today makes a comp of any description that presents the eye with a programmable prompt immediately on power up.
asciilifeform: ( and possibly elsewhere. )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 17:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750682 << in retrospect, regarding the matter cooly and with the disinterest of old age, i can affirm that this is ~the only important and enduring portion of computing as an education tool in my life. it's what feeds eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-11#1749457 and everything in between ands up to that : the 6yo mp's discovery that there exists a numeric universe underneath, and that it's t
phf: trinque: the function used to be performed by a teacher with a ruler
lobbes: If it weren't for the (wholly optional) "pc repair" class I took in high school (~2004) I never would have gone beyond the "how to MS Word" in the mandatory "Computers" class.
lobbes: Was only there where I actually took apart old 90's machines, saw and held motherboards, connected power supplied, and interfaced with DOS. if only for a short time.
lobbes: God help this new generation
shinohai: What a great log, too much to link to but I learned things same way - took apart my trash80, then the 8088's. My room was littered with such stuff.
shinohai: Just to make note in logs, I tested phf's vdiff changes as outlined on his blog, and got satisfactory results. Old version of vdiff failed as expected.
shinohai: (This was on a Gentoo, will try later on African linux)
mod6: Thanks shinohai!
ben_vulpes: stripe dropping bitcoin support
ben_vulpes: > Despite this, we remain very optimistic about cryptocurrencies overall
ben_vulpes: prepare for the lost decade of alts
asciilifeform: dafuq is 'stripe'
ben_vulpes: don't-call-it-a-credit-card-gateway
ben_vulpes: but precisely that with drop-in webforms and recurring payments and all sorts of tools for people who can't make their own
mod6: hai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: o hai there.
mod6: how goes today?
mircea_popescu: oh, today was epic!
mod6: nice
mircea_popescu is cooking up article.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774802 << nah, he got his phd years ago iirc.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought he was a student
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774819 << he's like 19 and in chicago. this was in the logs!
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 16:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774669 << if you're in usa or europistan, that's a 'staying above water' wage, nobody's retiring on that, 'early' or late or otherwise
ben_vulpes: live in the ghetto, scrape pennies to buy btc. zillion times better than investing in the stock market bezzle or any of the other mad 401k/roth lockup chumpatrons
mircea_popescu: either that or photograph tucans in the wild.
mircea_popescu: DRESSED IN A SUIT.
asciilifeform: speaking of optics , asciilifeform found today that chinese sell a qrcode-reader thing, the size of a matchbox, with rs232 output (i.e. self-contained, needs no softwarism) , eats 5v , ~20bux
ben_vulpes: sounds like mircea_popescu had a good afternoon
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774856 << loller. this, btw, VERY much a thing. i dunno how they survive, but if i wanted to make a life as a thief here, easily could.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:25 BingoBoingo: Nervous, carried self in manner that screamed latina holding more cash than accustomed to.
mircea_popescu: can pick whosoever is the mark through the trivial process of their all but screaming it.\
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774857 << speaking of this, it occured to me earlier in teh car that if the current "intelligent car ; self drives" trend continue (as it doubtless will), the net result will in short order be a standardization of curves.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:29 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774654 <-- from my experience, learning for a purpose can lead to a personal place of misery. consider http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ ; if anything, rather study computing *because* people who know computer systems are needed today (hard to believe they won't be needed tomorrow either) than for any imagined fame and glory. the romantic image of pentester belongs only to "hacker" movies
mircea_popescu: which is even a welcome fucking idea, no more of this "DANGEROUS CURVE AHEAD". bitch, i don't know your idea of "dangerous", say "curve type W64" and be fucking done with it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774865 << what is the fucking alternative, if you're not the sort that can shoot someone in the head, all point blank and cool as shit ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:35 asciilifeform is astonished to regularly , as today, encounter folx who are apparently posting from a timewarp, maybe 1998-99 , where they labour under the delusion that 'why not go into programming, it's a guaranteed and comfortable living'
asciilifeform: dunno, honest trades ?
mircea_popescu: it's either programming, "psychopathy" or else you go on the dole. and no, the sort of job parole officer gets for you ain't anything BUT the sort of "job" "social worker" gets your sister, ie "sit home, be rapebait, here's your supplemental whatever card"
phf: like a shoe cobbler or a lathe machinist?
asciilifeform: there are still such things as welders, sailors, machinists, surgeons, etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what honest fucking trades. like what, you open a lemonade stand, and through thrift and industry you end up owning all of the east end lemonade trade ?
mircea_popescu: you never heard the expression "union town" have you
mircea_popescu: by all means alf, go, be cock-tail waitress in vegas!!1
asciilifeform: errything's a uniontown. incl. the sort of programming anybody might actually want to be involved with
mircea_popescu: yes, but that takes skill. waitressing takes a pulse and not oversleeping too often because you whored out / smoked yourself blank the previous night.
mircea_popescu: which is the traditional point of the expression "union town" : a job you ~could~ do, but won't be allowed to.
mircea_popescu: ie, there's two ways to control overabundant supply : through price and through convention. the union is the latter mechanism.\
asciilifeform: блат aha
asciilifeform: ( is there an engl word for it, btw ? )
mircea_popescu: meanwhile "programming", in the sense (and i quote exactly), "I'm working in corporation in finance and procurement department, so I can sum up my life with : excel, excel, excel, SAP, a little bit more excel" is not actuially a job 90% opf the walkers can do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform romanian has it. it's mostly used to denote taking the bus w/o a ticket / going to exam with a cheating mind.
asciilifeform: very diff item
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:53 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774869 << no, it's because the boys wanted to grab ass so they introduced the punched card to have a reason to hire a buncha secretaries.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:59 spyked: re naggum article, "programming is both similar and different. whether you are a user or a programmer these days is often hard to tell (this has good qualities to it, too)" <-- this user/programmer dichotomy being a direct consequence of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774116 maybe? ftr, /me started with a microcomputer and first thing he could do with it, by nature, was program it. even if the "program" consisted merely of LOAD ""
mircea_popescu: that's the modern "computer user" : the punchcard girl of ibm days.
mircea_popescu: has nfi what the holes do but can tell you the bell rang at an unexpected time.
mod6: lobbes is doing good things huh
mircea_popescu: mod6 top of the list of potential inductees for this year methinks.
mod6: i like it. pay attention readers.
ben_vulpes: list?
ben_vulpes: he's...it
mircea_popescu: what, no transgendered people ?!
mod6: lmao
mircea_popescu: we gotta have a conversation about gender balance and bias in this republic.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774880 << communism was harsh but at least it kept the idiots down.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 18:26 asciilifeform: in su also folx made boxes like this.
shinohai: "Benebit, one of this year’s most hyped ICOs, has pulled an exit scam .... The fraud only came to light after someone noticed that the team photos had been stolen from a school website."
shinohai: ta-da!
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 18:29 spyked should take some photos next time he goes to the faculty; maybe grab some docs for the archaeologists
mircea_popescu: also fyi, "faculty" is how you say the body of teachers, maybe. it dun has the ro meaning at all whatsoever. university would work, campus, whatever.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774891 << and why is it you don't remember ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 18:39 phf: afair though, the subset of commands that we have in vdiff can be reduced to portable awk (i had it working on mac os x), but i don't remember what the necessary changes are. someone mentioned that busybox awk fails..
asciilifeform: he meant факультет lol
asciilifeform: in usa that's a 'department' but i hate the wurd
mircea_popescu: yes. and also it's not a proper "going to" anyway.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:25 phf: if you're in the first category, you're going to be paid peanuts to do bitch work, if you're in the later category then by 19 (or whatever) "how to pentest career!1" is going to be ~the last fucking question~ you're going to ask a channel full of autodidacts
a111: Logged on 2018-01-24 02:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774880 << communism was harsh but at least it kept the idiots down.
mircea_popescu: did we do an "ye olde dacs on serial port" thread yet ?
asciilifeform: parallel
asciilifeform: !#s covox
mircea_popescu: there we go.
asciilifeform still has his somewhere, built inside one of those hardcases vhs tapes sometimes came in
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774899 << the most concerning aspect to my eye is what asciilifeform calls "xp pointism" or whaty was it, basically he's swallowed the oreilly/pmarca hunk of nonsense and is scorting imaginary points "in" an imaginary "community".
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:23 trinque: fees have come *way* down.
mircea_popescu: next he'll be going to conferences.
asciilifeform: linked item is notable however because not a covox : it emulates the isa sb, which had a microcontroller, but ~without~ one, with raw ttl fsm
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pointism << depending on age -- curable
asciilifeform: at 19 imho is on the border
mircea_popescu: lotta wasted time. phf has it, where's your edited civ savefiles ffs.\
asciilifeform: speaking of which, i tried to civ1 on that hp800 box, and it dies with div0 during the intro ( drops to shell, stays in 320*200 tho, and... music -- keeps playing!? somehow! )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where's your logline saying "well, of course office drone is going to build by parts, wtf else is he gonna do"
asciilifeform: apparently not ~quite~ 'ibmcompat'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, that actually was a known problem at the time! i REMEBER THIS
mircea_popescu: yes wai.
asciilifeform: i never saw...
mircea_popescu: now if only i had a blog from 1993 i could dig in and find what the fix was.
asciilifeform: not even on my shit 'cyrix' 40
mircea_popescu: eventually fixed.
mircea_popescu: but yes it was the damned intro. maybe it comes to me.
asciilifeform: civ1 for me was ~the~ civ.
asciilifeform: i admit, i was tempted, last night, to actually debug the crash
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKsLWiPtSWY << teh english tune was for a while my favourite piece of music.
asciilifeform: then thought 'wtf am i doing, wai'
mircea_popescu: in THAT specific variant, imo it gains a lot from the speaker.
asciilifeform: sounds like roland
mircea_popescu: now i gotta find this.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it was the rondeau by mouret. but it never heard a proper variant played on like yopu klnow, actual fucking musical instruments, that i even half as much liked.
asciilifeform: i liked the 'ru' ( blatant 'дубинушка' ) intro. and ditto
asciilifeform: i never did have a roland tho
mircea_popescu: twasnt the roland, wrong link. the gfx tricked me
asciilifeform realizes that he can, more or less, play back whole civ1 soundtrack in his head
phf: that was cm-500, it's got flatter soundbank than mt-32. but to be honest first time i heard either was after i moved to us, and it's frankly weird to hear all those classic tunes in such epic renditions. though i guess soundblaster that everyone had in ru wasn't bad either
phf: haha, more like it.
asciilifeform: lol pcspeakr civ
mircea_popescu: now this is going to run on loop in my house and the girls will lose their mind and come seek you alf and tear your liver out before your eyes
asciilifeform: i had 'adlib' by the time i got copy of civ
mircea_popescu: which is a fitting fate!
phf: asciilifeform: capitalist!
asciilifeform: it was quite decent on adlib
asciilifeform: i dun think i ever had a box with vga but not at least an adlib in it
mircea_popescu: i ~never bought sound cards.
mircea_popescu: fuck that, gime one of the vidcards with THREE FANS
mircea_popescu: and TRIPLE AGP SITTINGS!
asciilifeform: lol the box of the era had maybe 1 fan -- in ps
asciilifeform: ( i miss how quiet the 486 was , actually )
mircea_popescu: box of 1 fan in ps era had ega not vga
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVUJjPzRb2U << proper item. much better, utterly no good.
mircea_popescu: tvga! wtf is that, tandy with serials altered ?
asciilifeform: trident
asciilifeform: iirc taiwan
mircea_popescu: taiwega.
mircea_popescu: anyway, trident was actually a pretty great maker, in q/$ terms at least.
asciilifeform: cheap and angry, but worked, no obvious flaws
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774906 << publish it sometime ; and also since on this trinque i'd like to use whatever wot.deedbot uses to spit the round svg graph to make a "trilema article links" thing. can i get it somewhere ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:36 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774783 << "org mode", i haven't found else with which to htmlize coad
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:47 lobbes: Never once did I encounter "interested in something? Here's how you could keep following that interest"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774915 << guess how many girls never masturbate to orgasm and in what environments. lack of personal drive ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:52 phf: i can see the education angle, and how it fails these people, but what i'm surprised about is the lack of personal drive? it's some kind of learned helplessness
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774916 << he has it exactly ; for all the "intrinsic humanity" blah blah, humans are contextual automatons. "it would have never occured me to x" is the most common comment in all natural languages, unvoiced because so fucking trite.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 19:54 lobbes: It appears such to someone with actual skills such as phf. But for one for whom it is a "well, what else is there?", it seems like the rational move
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774921 << amusingly i read it as a "well, gotta put best foot forward and don best suit", kinda unconvinced of why or what the fuck subjhectively, "but what can you do". which is why i just ignored it, triggered none of my tripwires. while apparently hitting TWO DIFFERENT!!! immune system protein pathways in two different people.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 20:03 trinque: kid was virtue signaling hard, "am strapping lad, going places!"
mircea_popescu: life's hard, but dangerous.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774923 << arguably maybe not yet, but in another decade or so it prolly will be.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 20:04 ben_vulpes: ours mostly
asciilifeform: i found it interesting to consider, why winblowz '0days' exciting to 19yo n00b, but e.g. ffa -- not
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no actual math priors.
asciilifeform: not in ffa either, lol
mircea_popescu: oohohohohoh
mircea_popescu: you have no fucking idea!
asciilifeform: it uses... what, 3rd grade maffs
phf: which 3rd grade is that?
asciilifeform: american, even
asciilifeform: ( they dun teach longdiv till 3rd here )
mircea_popescu: you understand, in frege's day "inquiries into the nature of numbers" were VERY uninteresting to kids in teh gymnasium
mircea_popescu: this is not because the notion of number "is light on math -- 3rd grade". but specifically because it is not. nothing odf the fucking sort.
asciilifeform: i'd expect , they were mostly interested in dueling and cards
mircea_popescu: the notion of gravity is not elementary. the notion of magnetism is so fucking elementary it was observed 1k years before electricity and it still lacks a proper model.
asciilifeform: in that sense yea. ffa however is not frege, it is moar al-kwarizmus
mircea_popescu: the notion of number requires a phd. and ffs is more fundamental math than things such as infinitesimal calculus.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it's right in there with n-space extensions.
mircea_popescu: no, it is very much frege.
mircea_popescu: the big question is ~WHAT TO TAKE OUT~.
mircea_popescu: that is always frege. or w/e, spinoza if you prefer, or so on. a whiole school of lens polishers.
mircea_popescu: you are a terrible classifier, you know that ? seriously, ffa, 3rd grade ? what next, telekinesis, preschool ?
asciilifeform: it's arithmetic, lel, not inquiry-into-nature-of-integer
mircea_popescu: it is no such thing.
asciilifeform: at least for civilian
mircea_popescu: it is inquiry into fundamental meaning of algorithmic computation.
asciilifeform: but i can see where mircea_popescu is coming from.
asciilifeform: ftr i do hope it can be made to work on folx who never read frege.
mircea_popescu: what clouds your eyes is the notion that "civillian dun need to understand why, it will work for him". yes, but he has to understand why ~TO USE IT~. see ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise it's just another contortion.
asciilifeform: ( ffa , yes, is made to work ~ on people ~ primarily )
phf: ascii still labours under soviet system: "hygiene is useful, you will also get shot for not doing it"
mircea_popescu: lol. he does, at that.
mircea_popescu: and ffs is more fundamental math than << ffa, obviously.
mircea_popescu: (obviously ?)
asciilifeform: !#s phenolphthalein
a111: 0 results for "phenolphthalein", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=phenolphthalein
asciilifeform: there was an old story...
mircea_popescu: yet another word i knew!
mircea_popescu: !#s fenoftaleina
a111: 0 results for "fenoftaleina", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fenoftaleina
asciilifeform: the story where 3yo asciilifeform ate a litmus strip
asciilifeform: from his brother's workbench
asciilifeform: 'forgive me, bro' 'hey, i'll forgive, but phenolphthalein won't forgive, prepare to live in the toilet'
mircea_popescu: they weren't THAT bad, i ate a few myself.
mircea_popescu: from own bench.
asciilifeform: yea , it... forgave, lel
asciilifeform: but principle -- remains
mircea_popescu: !#s "the stain"
asciilifeform: or hanbot's vignette with the ducks
asciilifeform bbl,meat
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774922 << truthfulyl, it's the fault of the complete disappearance of any kind of approachable useful activity.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 20:04 trinque: which, it's sorta appropriate for the age. it's frankly someone else's fault the strapping lads aren't being forced into productive activity.
mircea_popescu: ideal humanity would have constructed ladder of pseudouseful ("hey, make your own V!") to support the kids until they grow the fucking graybeard spontaneously on 3xth birthday so they don't go off the deep end as antsy 16yos/26yos with no release
mircea_popescu: but real humanity is approximately speaking antiideal.
mircea_popescu: THIRTEEN was the age of majority for french kinds. by then "they had seen a few wars, fucked a few horses, rode a few women, ready to rule"
mircea_popescu: kings* not kinds.
mircea_popescu: in other news, apparently yahoo owns tumblr ? i had no idea.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774947 << this is not clearly so. teacher with ruler function was to teach them bravery (more properly, unteach them the innate cowardice of human race). this is subtly different ; there's also a subtle difference between empathy as "capacity to model" and the bare capacity to model as such -- yes the similarity between mouse that loves a mouse and spider that eats a mouse is that they both
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 20:22 phf: trinque: the function used to be performed by a teacher with a ruler
mircea_popescu: can model the behaviour of same mouse.
asciilifeform: woah actually lookable gurl
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1774957 << aren't these the shitheads that tried to cozy up in like 2014ish, then obviously swiched ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-24 01:33 ben_vulpes: > Despite this, we remain very optimistic about cryptocurrencies overall
mircea_popescu: or was that square or circle or whatever random word the pantsuit is trying to steal today.
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder the sad strip of land on either side of ocean doesn't consist of idiots running in and out of doors with barrels, trying to steal the sunlight in them.
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