trinque: if an automatic manifest comprised of hashes of all items in project, it reduces to the $concatHashBefore and $concatHashAfter
mircea_popescu: yes ; was just a place to put it really.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
trinque: ben_vulpes: huh, meanwhile node.deedbot.org is topped up without aggression and without 50400 setvernum.
ben_vulpes: stormy, with a chance of packeting
ben_vulpes: gonna have to revert and watch, or provision a mess of boxen
mircea_popescu: aaand in other humanities : a. j. ayer was once in the livingroom of one fernando sanchez on west 57th st, hanging out with a buncha young hussies/models when one girl came arunnin' complaining that her friend was being assaulted in the bedroom. ayer went in, where he found mike tyson atop an obscure south london model. when the (at the time 70yo) oxford professor asked him to quit it, mike tyson wanted to know if he knows wh
mircea_popescu: o the fuck he is!!! ie, the world's heavyweight champion. ayer explained that he's the ex wykeham professor of logic, and since they're both pre-eminent in their respective fields, how about they indulge in discourse rather than intercourse. oddly enough tyson accepted, and naomi campbell slipped out -- apparently undamaged enough by the experience to actually do those not-even-terrible shots with madonna.
mircea_popescu taking off on a little trip, cya all manana.
shinohai: Bon Voyage mircea_popescu .... enjoy!
jhvh1: shinohai: 501273
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 15700.09, vol: 14030.97103622 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 15699.0, vol: 49838.33077808 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 15916.9, vol: 3761.92367122 | Volume-weighted last average: 15711.3466183
BingoBoingo: Ah, such a gloriously obvious pattern emerges. Waterfalls when the banks are closed. Turns out the speed of the crashing is limited to a somewhat sane pace by the difficulty of getting rid of non-ecu fiat takens
BingoBoingo: Later today still more intense language and cultural immersion scheduled.
BingoBoingo: The accountant is giving me the expectation the the process of transforming my self into a business will compelete this week allowing bank access to follow soon after.
BingoBoingo very much enjoying the Lode lulz
diana_coman: !!key esthlos
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759152 << not up to 'tip' yet. it did walk 3000+ blox in the night, however. which before patch sometimes took week+.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 05:36 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
asciilifeform: the old behaviour was indefensibly insane, wtf, why is boot time 'special', for fuck's sake.
asciilifeform: as for nodes at the 'tip', the path of chinesium through layers of prb is a lottery, and i suspect that attempting to measure the effect of a trb patch on said behaviour is doomed to astrologize over noise
diana_coman: !!v F86B917C8A985F0F4DEEA86779F31E186369CD2305830051D630044D5969FE5F
deedbot: diana_coman rated esthlos 1 << He seems to really want to learn.
diana_coman: !!seen esthlos
deedbot: 2017/12/22 02:03:16 <esthlos> BingoBoingo: yes, I think it's time for that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
asciilifeform: if what is meant is 'i looked on shitchain.info and saw a higher number than from my getinfo' should SAY that.
asciilifeform: ... and also say what happened when you try and plug yer node into this or that 'un-behind' one.
asciilifeform: if, alternatively, it meant 'my block height hasn't moved for a week', again should be specific, SAY that, and post yer log
asciilifeform: so that questions like 'did it even have net access for that week', to 'has it ASKED anyone for the next block, or just sat there with mouth open? ' and 'did anyone ANSWER, when asked, or just shat forth mempool crapola and bastards 50 blox ahead' can be answered.
asciilifeform: i get it, in the 'organic' system that is a live p2p net, proper controlled experiments are quite impossible. this however does NOT mean that one oughta freely give in to urge to climb back up the tree, becoming a monkey again, and think in voodoo criteria. even if the circumstances heavily encourage this , by failing to reward rational thought ( see mircea_popescu's thread with the italian fishermen !! , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-
asciilifeform: 12-02#1745723 )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 22:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the sea is rich ; but the fisherman's stuck playing a loser game.
asciilifeform: don't be the fisherman who, say, 'i washed my hands after shitting and that day caught no fish, i think i'ma not ever again wash hands' etc.
asciilifeform: in other lulzy backlinx from asciilifeform's www, http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2944&p=57778#p57778 << 6502 enthusiasts , presumably some were not awake in the '80s-'90s , try to rederive carry-bit formula. d00d links asciilifeform's. which is hilarious because on what, do you suppose, asciilifeform originally studied...
asciilifeform: http://www.worldtruth.mx/mathematics/link-id_34145/ << pinoys neversleep(tm)(r)
asciilifeform shakes out last crumbs from spam trap, bolts it back into place
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf: 1) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch2_logicals.vpatch.peterl.sig 2) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch3_shifts.vpatch.peterl.sig
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf: 3) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.peterl.sig . ty
asciilifeform: congrats to PeterL, the first (and currently only) ch4 graduate.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 15:57 asciilifeform: 12-02#1745723 )
asciilifeform: phf: imho more correct pill would be to patch e.g. znc. or better still, the client, to warn of splits
asciilifeform: elaborately diddling logs is not The Right Thing. for one thing, it will cause logtrons to fall out of sync.
asciilifeform: ( with each other, and with naive logs that everybody keeps on own hdd )
phf: well, i'm thinking illumination, which has been sop for btcbase, but yes, since split happens on client anyway (i'm using ircii right now, and it annoyingly doesn't warn OR split)
phf: the other thing that i wanted to do is add xref for those inline quotes `phf: asciilifeform: grrrrr ... << kek` that people like to do
asciilifeform: oohyea the worst of the worst, will neither warn nor split, they swallow
asciilifeform: specifically thinking of the crapple ones (e.g. 'palaver')
asciilifeform: somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
phf: i suspect ircii simply predates usability. back when men counted each character, because bell telephone company metered bauds
asciilifeform: dunno, all of the artifacts i recall from those days, made it easier for operator to avoid this accidental bankruptcy , not harder.
phf: ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
asciilifeform: this type of 'helpfulness' is pestilential nao
asciilifeform: 'did you mean to search for 'lipstick' instead?? we're gonna search for lipstick instead!'
phf: i blame wolfram
asciilifeform: long pre-dates wolframism
asciilifeform: wolfram surely deserves whipping post regardless. ( he is to be counted, imho, right up there with the greatest american charlatans, with josephsmith, edison, gates, et al )
a111: Logged on 2015-04-09 21:21 ascii_field: anyway, i happen to know more than a reasonable man ought to, about wolframism
phf: early tex papers knuth talks about putting this or that formula into macsyma, but then from some point he fully switches to mathematica. breaks me heart
asciilifeform: hey he also switched to winblowz
asciilifeform: but heart did not break then ? why not? i'm curious
phf: he did? i thought he uses mac, he posted his keyboard layouts
asciilifeform: in all fairness i can't recall how i came to think that he did.
asciilifeform: so perhaps not
phf: he was using unix up until early 2000s, and then switched to mac (i think for old people reasons)
asciilifeform: but gotta say, there is not so much distance left, to winblowz.
asciilifeform: from cook-os.
phf: but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that this disconnect, 'can use ipad but still do honest mathematics', doesn't show any serious symptoms of existing
asciilifeform: i'll point out that everything for which knuth is famous, was done before senility and macdows
asciilifeform: ( see also the not wholly-irrelevant http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455456 item )
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 04:34 asciilifeform: rmans really got to England my acquaintance of the Cafe Royal would soon have found his painting deteriorating, even if the Gestapo had let him alone. And when the lid is taken off Europe, I believe one of the things that will surprise us will be to find how little worthwhile writing of any kind -- even such things as diaries, for instance -- has been produced in secret under the dictators.'
asciilifeform: i dun see any fundamental reason why it ~could not~ exist. but also dun see any signs that it in fact does.
asciilifeform: iirc knuth showed first sign of fatal weakness when he failed to put up resistance against what the latex people had done.
phf: it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
asciilifeform: ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
asciilifeform: phf: given specifically as i do not know the man -- all i'm left with is 'the mathematics for which he was famous'
asciilifeform: which was a going concern in '70s-'80s, while today it is a '70-'80s memory, strictly
asciilifeform: entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
phf: we'll he's a millenarian, he's primarily documenting the fundamental findings of computer science
asciilifeform: the problem of trying to be 'millenarian' with earthling human lifespan...
asciilifeform: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: well, really, the problem has been discussed here many times, that you can't tmsr without wot. "successor" is just a special case of that, which, again, lacking mechanisms, is likewise lacking
asciilifeform: phf: right. i did not say that his problem was readily solvable. but it remains -- problem.
asciilifeform: at the very least could've emphasized the absence of a successor.
BigTexasBingo: Anyways knuth problem seems insufficient threat of hambre
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: expand?
phf: asciilifeform: he did though, by making it very explicit that there can't be a successor.
BigTexasBingo: When I consider what the next right thing is, hambre or the threat thereof provides motivation to not be stupid and Windows
asciilifeform: phf: apparently lamport missed this memo
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: to old folx, hunger is not motivator for action, but for depression/death and, often, quisling
asciilifeform: hunger is motivator for the young, who have good battery charge
BigTexasBingo: That's what kids are for
asciilifeform: afaik knuth did not grow any , at least none such that would suffer from the delusion that they are fit to succeed him
BigTexasBingo: Not much to do then except present carrot/stick/africa trilemma
phf: asciilifeform: well, be that lamport, or someone else, the memo wasn't missed, but made to disappear through consensus. everyone knows that there's only one TeX, but of course "modern" "tex" is latex with luatex engine, etc. etc.
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: the art of 'drowning like a gentleman', i.e. to behave honourably and with grace in the face of certain defeat, death, obscurity -- is largely lost in modern folx
asciilifeform: phf: evidently
BigTexasBingo: Brb, more immersion
phf: knuth managed to do a lot to keep tex what it is, given that he's essentially a pacifist academic. there aren't many other examples (common lisp, ada) where preservation has been taken to this extreme.
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: ever seen this photo : https://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/6/6/5346660.jpg ?
phf: relatedly, i managed to get latest version (jan 2014) version to produce a dvi out of tex.tex from first principles. i used someone else's port to gnu pascal
asciilifeform: ^ burgomeister of leipzig. apr 20, 1945.
asciilifeform: phf: neato.
phf: i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
shinohai: !~lookup irccloud.com
jhvh1: shinohai: 220.127.116.11
asciilifeform: !!up toohigh
deedbot: toohigh voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently.
asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
asciilifeform: !!up l0de
deedbot: l0de voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: hmm, dis ircii keeps losing connection and then not telling me anything. this like some girlfriend shit
lobbes: <asciilifeform> [19:42:10] in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently. << "Before disappearing from any involvement in bitcoin, Nakamoto in a sense handed over the reins to developer Gavin Andresen" lol, didjaknow?
lobbes: but so it goes, those on that ship will 'unhappen' into their watery grave
ben_vulpes: !!up punto
deedbot: punto voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in an apparent imitation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-12#1749817 : http://destery.info/cidal/mpex-bitcoin-nupe.php <<< aaaaand, very similarly, returns ENTIRELY different turd to archive.is. orig. screenshitted, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpex_flavoured_spamola.jpg for posterity.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-12 15:42 asciilifeform: meanwhile in pinoy spamola, http://peltebesining.tk/giwe/asic-bitcoin-miner-schematic-1634.php << image-embeds asciilifeform's lispm keyboard schematic as 'asic miner' . bonus : if loaded via archive.is, gives entirely ~different~ spamola, prolly based on ip block
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759179 << when i use it, i mean that my foremost node is ahead by delta.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 15:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
asciilifeform: that's even worse. if my nodes were failing to give EACH OTHER their best known blocks, i'd skin'em alive until found why
mircea_popescu: i know why lol
asciilifeform: ( is what 'wires' came out of )
asciilifeform: in related noose, zoolag covered ~20k blox in 4days. and looks set to fully sync by tomorrow morning.
asciilifeform: ( with 'aggression' )
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too.
asciilifeform: and, observe, this was without any such prbisms as 'headers-first'ism etc.
asciilifeform: none of it, i suspect, was ever needed.
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone intellectually honest still holds any notion that the prb crew is in any way working to fix or improve bitcoin.
asciilifeform: wasn't, even in 2012.
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754247 that fit exactly those dimensions
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform turns out you have a lot of fans.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759198 << look at cases where a message that overflows the buffer has the last word leading by http of any line and the first word of the next line include any /
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:14 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
mircea_popescu: should cover most cases.
mircea_popescu: can offer it in the logotron as a [?] item, ie message is "blablabla http://someu" and next line goes "rl.com/hurddurr" and your log shows the line as "blablabla http://someu [ http://someurl.com/hurddurr ?]" or perhaps in shorter format, "blablabla http://someu [<a href=http://someurl.com/hurddurr>?</a>]"
mircea_popescu: not sure it's worth actually getting this anal, but w/e
mircea_popescu: just as good as google ai (tm)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759208 << i consider it perfectly acceptable ; if crapple software were improved to swallow 100% of their luserbase's output as opposed to merely 1% or w/e it is now it'd be even more acceptable.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:19 asciilifeform: somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759209 << no fucking way it's that old. 2000s item
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:20 phf: i suspect ircii simply predates usability. back when men counted each character, because bell telephone company metered bauds
mircea_popescu: this isn't fucking irc2
phf: nah, ircii is 1980s, 2.1.4 is 1990s release
mircea_popescu: are we talking irssi or irc2 ?
mircea_popescu: ah ok
mircea_popescu: dunno why i read irssi
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:27 phf: ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759229 << jesus christ clucking in algebra on that clunker of a kbd...
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:39 phf: but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
mircea_popescu: i'd rather piss it in fresh snow.
phf: you can use ipad with a bluetooth keyboard!!1
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759236 << the problem is rather the ability to tell people [as a fine example, one's own sons] that they have failed miserably, and here's the small stiletto that'll wash somewhat of the miserable stain they placed on your name.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:48 phf: it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
mircea_popescu: absent that... you're typing on a bluepad itooth regardless.
mircea_popescu: this very basic confrontation of cain is an utterly necessary, fundamental building block of respirable cosmos.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759237 << have you ever wondered, like prepubescent mp wondered, why all these various animals on nature show never fucking kill the parasytes like you'd squish a flea ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:49 asciilifeform: ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
mircea_popescu: obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
mircea_popescu: i am convinced that all these useless foreigners had not an inkling of an idea that they're trading their ancestral land for the sack of shiny baubles, simply no conception whatsoever. "what, there's something wrong with codebase increase ?" they might ask, with all the endearing pathetism of well meaning senility, in the same tone as they might ask "where am i ? could you take me home ?", lost at a crowded crossroads.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759241 << it's not altogether clear to me soviet union wasn't continued exactly in the spirit and direction of "the great father".
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:52 asciilifeform: entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's that
asciilifeform: can debate styles of management , etc. but for instance stalin did not sell natural resources. successors -- sold. even today, ru runs 100% 'on the pipe', like saud
asciilifeform: the inheriting of the master's house by a gaggle of idjits , former bootlicks, was a palpable thing, and with palpable consequences incl. the cn split.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759338 << dog very much perceives the flea. just like zek perceives the louse. but what exactly is he to do? either of them.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 01:51 mircea_popescu: obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
mircea_popescu: this is somewhat dubious. ww2 engagement not "sold ru resources ie mirvnik fat" but "invested" ?
mircea_popescu: and no, t-cell doth not perceive hiv virus, nor fish the polyp on its gills etc.
mircea_popescu: dog, maybe. then again dog eats shit does not perceive ascaris etc
asciilifeform: ww2 wasn't exactly a voluntary transaction
asciilifeform: re t cell -- not all parasites are perceptible. point was that stealth is not the only strategy used by parasite
mircea_popescu: this is an open issue. "on the pipe" also not voluntary txn
mircea_popescu: china HAD TO trade its mirvnik fat, and it's what powered its conversion from ~india to ~us.
asciilifeform: it is if you have a stalin, i.e. a firm power vertical.
mircea_popescu: russia idem had to. much less profitably, because turns out torturing your fellow countryman is better for the country than torturing the environment.
asciilifeform: if not , then 0 agency, like corpse. and fat will be rendered
mircea_popescu: optimal investment in the other (as teh sartrean notion) is putting them into pain.
asciilifeform: nao this, is so.
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental counterintuitive coernerstone of civilisation : always better to beat the wife and children than to beat the walls and fields.
asciilifeform: ( much has been written on subj of how post-mongol ru continued same administrative style etc. there's sumthing to it. )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 18:06 phf: i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
mircea_popescu: !~lookup chat.freenode.net
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 18.104.22.168
mircea_popescu: !~lookup irc.freenode.net
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 22.214.171.124
mircea_popescu: shinohai nice.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759277 << any actual history of bitcoin, as opposed to the usual "and then hillary clinton really won the elections and global warming etcetera" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 19:43 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 00:26 shinohai: http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
shinohai: ah mircea_popescu lookup has been there a while, but i think i forgot to have pete_dushenski push it to his bots page updates.
shinohai: http://archive.is/VuSSm <<< Autists literally made this happen. Their logo is a fidget spinner, ffs
asciilifeform: shinohai: can haz not-videoturd ??
shinohai: heh i got txt on screen, no video
phf: heh, i was prepared to be disappointed, but the op, as they say, delivered
asciilifeform: 'Real price of bitcoin could be $0.00, warns Morgan Stanley' << didjaknow.
asciilifeform: ( they must've asked buffett... )
mircea_popescu: real price of dollars is almost certainly 0.00000000 bitcoin, however.
mircea_popescu: anyway. let them "could be" and "we said to ourselves and then believed" and so on until the rapetruck comes.
mircea_popescu: not like there's any further utility in the fiatard lands.
asciilifeform: pretty slow rapetruck... ( is the rape phree if the truck is late ? like american pizza in 1980s )