Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-12-15 | 2017-12-17 →
asciilifeform: for some reason reminds me of the su prisoners who , legendarily , got 5, 6 school diplomas each, because kept signing up again and again, teacher is the only chix in the joint after all
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu iangeker is here to interview. she's around for a little while longer today and then tomorrow after 2pm China Standard Time
BingoBoingo: !!up iangeker
deedbot: iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !!Up iangeker
deedbot: iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: You are now voiced
BingoBoingo: To talk in the channel, type and hit enter
iangeker: it means I can send a message to the channel now?
iangeker: thank you!
BingoBoingo: Yes, generally it isn't polite to talk to strangers privately except to ask for a loan of voice
BingoBoingo: iangeker: Introduce yourself
iangeker: I am introduced to here by Shannon, I am suppose to have an interview with Mircea. So I am waiting for the interview.
BingoBoingo: iangeker: Ah, if he doesn't respond now he will be on later to read what you type.
BingoBoingo: The channel has logs here
BingoBoingo: It probably would not hurt your cause here if you offered some information on your background while we await mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: Go over the basics. Mandarin or Cantonese? Where are your from? Where are you now? What have you done with your life?
BingoBoingo: !!Up esthlos
deedbot: esthlos voiced for 30 minutes.
esthlos: hello
BingoBoingo: Como estas vos?
esthlos: bien, e tu?
BingoBoingo: Muy bien, porque en Uruguay.
esthlos: sounds nicer than the -10C here
BingoBoingo: Ah ~30 here atm
esthlos: I've been trying to wrap my head around TMSR
esthlos: my background is as a lisper and mathematician
BingoBoingo: esthlos: Well, what portions do you stub the toes on in your dark?
esthlos: BingoBoingo: i'll put it this way
esthlos: BingoBoingo: i know enough about computing to know that asciilifeform is right about the general idiocy
esthlos: BingoBoingo: and my guess is that you guys view fiat currency like lispers view most programming
BingoBoingo: esthlos: So what that idiocy does to machines supposedly made to do math... Understand that same idoicy is pointed at far softer targets for great destruction.
BingoBoingo: TMSR is not primarily a currency thing.
BingoBoingo: TMSR is a self and world improvement society of fellows and fellas working to maximally empower the smart and maximally handicap the idiocy
BingoBoingo: There's even a TMSR fiat currency which operates alongside Bitcoin here, see
esthlos: BingoBoingo: interesting
BingoBoingo: Consider the problem where the pantsuit regime has declared flirting bad unless fat chicks do it.
esthlos: BingoBoingo: i've been considering hacking around with eurola, its seems like a game which actually rewards intelligence
esthlos: unlike most, where beating the underlying game (through code) is woefully out of scope
BingoBoingo: I've heard great things about it as well, but my work has sucked me down a different Republican rabbit hole.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the thing to do now is register a GPG key with deedbot, preferrably before you depart.
BingoBoingo: That way when you return it is possible to know you are you.
esthlos: alright
BingoBoingo: There's also logs to read, 2013 is a good read.
esthlos: i've been reading, but its hard to pull together a narrative
esthlos: so i've been blasting through the blogs of the 'lords'
BingoBoingo: Ah, the general admission exercise is reading six months of logs. Sometimes this is interpreted as the most recent, others suppose there is a "most correct" six months.
deedbot: EDB93AD2CAB28398010B46D025C71657FDA71DC2 registered as esthlos.
BingoBoingo: !!up iangeker
deedbot: iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: iangeker: Consider leaving an introduction as suggested for when mircea_popescu wakes up
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:13 BingoBoingo: It probably would not hurt your cause here if you offered some information on your background while we await mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: !!rate esthlos 1 Fresh off the boat
esthlos: BingoBoingo: thank you
BingoBoingo: !!v 1143C33A5ED25279C6BF15EA1388574D1BD9306E39B26F85678CBCB12C12416C
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated esthlos 1 << Fresh off the boat
BingoBoingo: esthlos: You may now voice yourself
BingoBoingo: !!down esthlos
BingoBoingo: This is the part where you figure out the voicing
BingoBoingo: !!help
BingoBoingo: !!Up esthlos
deedbot: esthlos voiced for 30 minutes.
esthlos: well
esthlos: i'm messaging deedbot
esthlos: oh duh i have to decrypt the msg
esthlos: nice system
esthlos: BingoBoingo: i will start reading some logs. enjoy your sun and beautiful women
esthlos: !!down
shinohai: I need coffee, I'm sitting here listening to asciilifeform 's txt Romanian dictionary through espeak.
mircea_popescu: !!up iangeker
deedbot: iangeker voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: hey there.
mircea_popescu: hm i wonder what china standard time is in ticotime lessee
mircea_popescu: 1 am now ; so 10 hrs behind. that's not even so terrible.
shinohai: He said something about her returning @ 2am local time here to chat I believe?
mircea_popescu: he said pm tho.
shinohai: My bad 2pm
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:08 iangeker: I am introduced to here by Shannon, I am suppose to have an interview with Mircea. So I am waiting for the interview.
mircea_popescu: << anything i could look at in either direction ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:18 esthlos: my background is as a lisper and mathematician
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:24 esthlos: BingoBoingo: and my guess is that you guys view fiat currency like lispers view most programming
mircea_popescu: hmm where'd he go.
mircea_popescu: << really, everything is specifically designed with the single goal in mind of rewarding intelligence, be it v, the wot, ANYTHING. in fact, if something didn't reward intelligence i'd very much like to hear about it, because that's the one and only cause for reform.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:30 esthlos: BingoBoingo: i've been considering hacking around with eurola, its seems like a game which actually rewards intelligence
mircea_popescu: << this may be because cult rumours greatly exaggerated.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:34 esthlos: i've been reading, but its hard to pull together a narrative
asciilifeform: << i find it hard to picture anything but randomsoup coming from such a thing
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 16:33 shinohai: I need coffee, I'm sitting here listening to asciilifeform 's txt Romanian dictionary through espeak.
shinohai: It was soup, therefore why I slapped myself to stop laughter, drank coffee, continued day.
asciilifeform: shinohai: if yer doing ro , mircea_popescu and diana_coman posted some quite handy links to audio , in thread
a111: Logged on 2017-10-24 20:51 mircea_popescu: 100% chances of native speaking not having any fucking clue what you're saying
shinohai: ty asciilifeform those would be handy.
asciilifeform: afaik there is not a ro-outputting machine synth worth a broken penny
mircea_popescu: pretty sure i heard some
asciilifeform: would be quite handy, can haz link , if mircea_popescu or anyone else finds it
mircea_popescu: but possibly rotting away under stacks of other female studies in $rando obscure uni
asciilifeform: << how come n00bs never append 'and here are some words that i published on the subject' to this
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 13:18 esthlos: my background is as a lisper and mathematician
asciilifeform: oh hm loox like mircea_popescu already asked same q !
mircea_popescu: they will.
asciilifeform to tea, bbl
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 18740.52, vol: 9956.57952973 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 18638.0, vol: 44101.27374891 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 18774.8, vol: 2412.02276688 | Volume-weighted last average: 18661.9191821
mircea_popescu: !!pay danielpbarron 0.00112981
diana_coman: <- perhaps because other than here, nobody actually asks them to or indeed bothers to look at it if they do
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 17:30 asciilifeform: << how come n00bs never append 'and here are some words that i published on the subject' to this
mircea_popescu: the whole "reward intelligence", ie the positive republican value, is entirely unheard of in empire lands
mircea_popescu: let ALONE the heresy of all heresies, unthinabler than incestouous-rape-while-vivisecting-right-of-life-chipmunk-dolphins-babyseals, which is ACTUALLY HANDICAP STUPIDITY, so dumbass gets LESS per unit than less dumbass ?!
mircea_popescu: holy hell what.
mircea_popescu: ~black~ seals, ie artical-american, i forgot to add.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in dept of entomology, << a dekulakization-flavoured phorqcoin , 'Active bitcoin wallets will receive UBTC at a rate of 1:1, and inactive wallet funds will go toward supporting other high quality blockchains or other projects in the ecosystem' . 'active' appears to mean 'moved in last month'. and, bonus, '30% ... ... will be used to support at least 10 other projects in the crypto-currency eco-syst
asciilifeform: em' while '70% will be used as collateral, to back the issuance of digital currencies pegged to fiat currencies'
mircea_popescu: high quality lol.
asciilifeform: they also baked in some scheme whereby you have to, apparently, nuke yer btc to get their shitcoin
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform can't muster the givingashit to investigate in detail.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in world of cokemachine, >> new jersey , 'Louis Meza, 35, lured his pal into a minivan, where a gunman pointed a pistol at the victim and demanded his 24-word passphrase on Nov. 4, authorities said. The code was given to Meza, a cryptocurrency investor, and allowed him access to the victim's Ether wallet.'
mircea_popescu: aaaahahaha
mircea_popescu: ether huffing at a gunpoint. was it a daisy ?
asciilifeform: a disney deathhose 9000, for all i know.
mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy shit imo
PeterL: so I was trying to follow the ffa series, started at loper-os, followed the link to v, ended up at and I am getting <title>404 Not Found</title> when I tried to download the links in 0x02, did I do something wrong or am I not looking at the most up to date v source or what?
asciilifeform: PeterL: afaik current-day vtron, by mod6 , is the one at
PeterL: ah, yes, I see it now.
asciilifeform: i could've sworn there was a mod6 thread about this not long ago
asciilifeform: possibly ben_vulpes hadn't yet had time to update his www .
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 20:27 PeterL: was the page where I went to the ml with the dead links, ben_vulpes maybe that should be updated?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
PeterL: I tried to press the ffa with the mod6 v, and I am getting this error:
asciilifeform: holyshit wat
asciilifeform: PeterL: tar up whole thing for me ?
asciilifeform: and post
asciilifeform: patches, seals, wot,, all.
asciilifeform: fwiw i tested with his vtron, and mine, prior to releasing each ch 1-3
asciilifeform: oh lemme guess, are you on crapple box PeterL ?
asciilifeform: those don't have sha512sum utility
asciilifeform: they have some other, heathen name for it, that escapes me presently
asciilifeform: memo to all crapple victims : yer choices are 1) stop, cold turkey 2) learn the broken pieces and learn to work around, on yer own
PeterL: umm, yes
asciilifeform: PeterL: the null string output for 'Actual:' is telltale.
PeterL: that's kinda what I was thinking might be the problem
PeterL: because the file is where it is supposed to be
asciilifeform: iirc the command on crapple is shasum -a 512 filegoeshere
asciilifeform: rather than sha512sum as in human boxes.
PeterL: aha, that works
PeterL: bah, my kids are making a mess, I will have to continue this later
ben_vulpes: and i am to update my blog every time someone takes down matter linked from a mailing list post?
ben_vulpes: don't contribute to linkrot, folks. at least put in a redirect when you take things down.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
ben_vulpes: meanwhile, what was the ml link now points to the foundation website, as that's where mod6 's v is most sensibly linked from
asciilifeform: redirects dun do much good for signed matter, do they
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: hm oughta work, if sig also redirect
PeterL: asciilifeform: I have succesfully built the FFA chapters 1-3 (on this here mac), and they give the expected respones using the included demo.
asciilifeform: congrats PeterL
asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 plox to consider case , vtron really oughta barf informatively if a req'd unix util is notfound, imho
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 21:00 asciilifeform: oh lemme guess, are you on crapple box PeterL ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: this particular problem will go away when phf bakes his new-type vdifftron . but until then it will prolly recur.
PeterL: I guess it is good I built in on a mac, exposes some bugs that would not have been seen if everybody used linux
PeterL: they are so close but have the wierdest quirky differences
a111: Logged on 2014-10-26 03:33 decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that's possibly circa-2004, at latest, thinking. today it dun look so hot even from outside, to naked eye. 'update and MUST REBOOT NAO' popups, a la microshit, crashes, even shitware beginning to bloom, whole orchestra, 'regression to mean'
asciilifeform sat down and tried to think of something good to say about it, 'at least it ships with compiler' then remembered that.. it doesn't, not after jobs died
asciilifeform: in other noose, << congrats to PeterL, the first (self-proclaimed, but there ain't gonna be any other kind, i dun run a usg-style school, 'diploma' is a matter of yer own conscience) ffa ch1 graduate .
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !!up colorics
deedbot: colorics voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: colorics: who might you be ?
asciilifeform: meanwhile for gnat archaeologists ( mod6 ? et al ) >>
mircea_popescu: !~later peterl i dunno, i think the ideal is no future for macs.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "peterl" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
mircea_popescu: whatever love anyone had for them back for their 1990s typographic utility is long lost.
mod6 reads
asciilifeform stuck presently in an infuriating gnat labyrinth : turns out, a proggy that set pragma Restrictions(No_Secondary_Stack) , cannot use Ada.Command_Line ( equiv of argc/argc in c-planet ). so then asciilifeform went to make own replacement. and turns out , guesswat, no can haz, because pragma Restrictions(No_Unchecked_Conversion) -- and argv, where commandline lives, is a pointer to nonadatronic (i.e. c-style) string .
mircea_popescu: this is actually a great property.
asciilifeform: so then the obvious answer is from the standard, which proclaims that Restrictions(....) can be made to act per-partition (i.e. on libffa , but not the calling prog)
asciilifeform: BUT this is apparently broken in gnat.
asciilifeform: unless i missed sumthing.
mircea_popescu: do these hold at runtime ?
mircea_popescu: or just compiler enforced
asciilifeform: they hold at build time, and disable chunks of the runtimelib
asciilifeform: (i.e. chunks of the language)
mircea_popescu: so ada binaries actually better than plain elf.
asciilifeform: so from this 4hr tour of wtf, asciilifeform learns that the only way to give his ada proggies access to argc/argv, is apparently to give'em a c main() (gnat makes this trivial) where all of the c-ism happens, which then invokes the proggy proper.
asciilifeform: ( which is what iirc diana_coman did , in one of her published routines )
mircea_popescu: also gives a "no c main" ada proggy a serious gold trophy.
mircea_popescu: not just fab gold, either.
asciilifeform: not hard tho, just dun use argc/argv
asciilifeform: until nao i never thought of doing it
mircea_popescu: yes, but a bad habit tough to break
asciilifeform: quite tough if yer writing proggy for unixbox.
mircea_popescu: isn't it refreshing just how fucking good an "unknown" ie, no women-in-tech language can actually be ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 20:39 asciilifeform: i could've sworn there was a mod6 thread about this not long ago
asciilifeform: incidentally is worth expanding on : it is impossible to implement Ada.Command_Line sanely (i.e. without using secondary stack.) the reason is that argv is a potential 'infinity' -- it contains an uncapped number of c-strings of uncapped ( as are all c-strings ) length.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 01:40 asciilifeform stuck presently in an infuriating gnat labyrinth : turns out, a proggy that set pragma Restrictions(No_Secondary_Stack) , cannot use Ada.Command_Line ( equiv of argc/argc in c-planet ). so then asciilifeform went to make own replacement. and turns out , guesswat, no can haz, because pragma Restrictions(No_Unchecked_Conversion) -- and argv, where commandline lives, is a pointer to nonadatronic (i.e. c-style) string .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: esp. comedic considering the name of the item
mod6: Notification of updates to v are posted in the comments there.
asciilifeform: ty mod6 . loox liek he found it in the end
a111: Logged on 2017-12-16 21:37 asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 plox to consider case , vtron really oughta barf informatively if a req'd unix util is notfound, imho
mircea_popescu: but it's THIS kind of woman, not THAt kind of "women"
asciilifeform: re 'unknown', i suspect that the stink of the landfill of usgism it lay buried in, is not entirely irrelevant
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ty mod6 . loox liek he found it in the end << thanks for helping him!
asciilifeform: at the very least it was why asciilifeform took as long as he did, to unearth it
mircea_popescu: in other lulz from fiatlands, "sales engineer"
ben_vulpes: mod6: aha thanks
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i have never understood wtf that was or how it was supposed to work
mircea_popescu: i had no idea it even existed.
mircea_popescu: best construction i can put on it is, "closest pantsuit can come to saying chumpatron operator wanted".
mircea_popescu: worst construction... well... have you seen that tv show ?
ben_vulpes: which?
mircea_popescu: whichever, they're all the same.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other parasite sites, check out*, such as
asciilifeform: << eh that's from the land where there exist 'building engineer' (i.e. janitor)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:02 mircea_popescu: in other lulz from fiatlands, "sales engineer"
mircea_popescu: some dude managed to rank ~5trillion pages in teh google cache BECAUSE the "artificial intelligence" of bayesian-cum-minimum-wage-tractor works exactly like this "hand populate a list with wikipeida and whatever, and then "rank" items"
mircea_popescu: so is on the hitler list, and consequently smaller fleas wish to ride atop the back of the great whale flea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hilarious bonus : only misconfigured www normally results in *.awswhatever url ordinarily
mircea_popescu: but here deliberately "misconfigured"
asciilifeform: here yes
asciilifeform: but the 'dog' this particular flea rides on, theoretically shouldn't even exist
mircea_popescu: anyway, quoted because it's a great example of the ~principle~ of the thing, whereby you don't want fucking fleas, because "government" anointed fleas are no better and no cleanner than random from the street.
asciilifeform: ( it -- yes , exists )
mircea_popescu: moreover i'm curious how they'll "fix" this. evidently correct solution (throw out amazonaws from hitler list of "acceptable websites") ain't happening so.. what ? introduce limit of max 8 chars for subdomain ?
asciilifeform: what's the charcount cap for dnsolade anyway
asciilifeform: dun tell me 'infinite', lel
mircea_popescu: c string neh
asciilifeform: iirc they gotta fit in 512b udpgrams tho
mircea_popescu: wasn't there an extended format ?
asciilifeform: possibly
asciilifeform dun recall from memory
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly, i had a half-cord of firewood dropped off and racked tidily in my basement a week or so ago and holy smokes the luxury of having effectively unlimited firewood during the wintertime is almost as good as i imagine not having to suffer through pacific northwest winters must be
asciilifeform: in other noose, congrats to ben_vulpes , << 2nd ffa ch1 graduate
ben_vulpes: all congrats to you sir, p vastly more enjoyable and engrossing than any other 'content' any imperial attentionfarm has produced in my lifetime
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: here's a lul : where i live there is almost unlimited firewood (someone is always cutting down old wood, giving away) but i've no fireplace.
ben_vulpes: this is primo hardwoods, seasoned professionally.
asciilifeform: ( in ameri-cardboard-house of recent decades' vintage, it is uncommon to find fireplace )
ben_vulpes: genius brother-in-law-in-waiting decided to bless the family mountain retreat with a whole cord of what turned out to be entirely unseasoned softwood from godknowswhere. literally worst choice, literally unprepared for civilized use.
trinque was pleased to get two nights of fireplace usage (and one of snow!) before it went back to 60-70F
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: shame about the pressed shitboard, yeah.
ben_vulpes: << gotta ask, how didjer *bones* cramp up boss
a111: Logged on 2017-12-09 01:10 mircea_popescu: ran in the rain, got terrible shin cramps from it, got massage from nude interloper while playing with her tits... my life is so unfair.
mod6: shin-splits or what-not eh?
ben_vulpes did first 6-mile haul this afternoon, pushing > 15 kilos of stroller
mod6 hates running
ben_vulpes: not strictly cramps, that.
ben_vulpes taking a walk down pedantry lane is al
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: hey relatedly as you might deduce i do have a usable gnat setup nao
trinque: I'm over here dusting off the musl gentoo recipe to produce same.
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd much like to see a working musltronic gnat
asciilifeform does not currently have one
trinque: whole turd gettin published when done
ben_vulpes: but by WHOM?!?!?!
trinque: since I last ran the recipe, as yet anonymous shitgnomes broke the downgrade to gcc 4.9.4
asciilifeform: nominally libc doesn't go in a gnat-baked elf, so it isn't quite the same urgency as musltronic gcc-for-trb was
asciilifeform: but i want a musltronic linux, and yes with gnat
asciilifeform: ( what ~does~ go in the elf ? see thread )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 01:38 asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wood fired stoves are pretty cool, for the first few months.
mircea_popescu: gets tedious after, which is why god made winter not last.
ben_vulpes: remarked the other night that i understood in short order the fireplace -> 'franklin' stove motivations
mircea_popescu: << this is quite on point ; there's just about ~nothing of any interest or to any degree interesting happening anywhere else fwis.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:43 ben_vulpes: all congrats to you sir, p vastly more enjoyable and engrossing than any other 'content' any imperial attentionfarm has produced in my lifetime
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: phunphakt, franklin's stove is even today in ru known as a буржуйка ( why? dunno, because from usa ? hard to say )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 16:40 asciilifeform finds that he cannot think of grouse without recalling mayakovsky's 'Ешь ананасы, рябчиков жуй, / день твой последний приходит, буржуй.'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes romania still has in the rural areas the habsburg empire's premier invention in this world, the vienese smokes terracotta
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the flat i grew up in, had one
asciilifeform: ( despite total lack of habsburgs... )
mircea_popescu: got hanbot a place with one while she resided in ro, she quite liked it iirc.
asciilifeform: massively glorious thing
mircea_popescu: yes. it is, when one understands the problem, a properly speaking breathtaking accomplishment.
mircea_popescu: << very much in same vein of discussion
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 19:34 mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
asciilifeform: iirc in anglostan such a stove is called 'dutch stove'
mircea_popescu: "there was no technology before fly-eyes" because it... wasn't for the fucking fly eyes, that's why!
mircea_popescu: dutch item is later copy of austrian original. you know, like gouda.
mircea_popescu: notbad, but chinesium avant la lettre.
mod6: << Wern't people also deeding these a while back?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 00:41 mircea_popescu: << nah, too complex and therefore frail system like that. simply : host ALL sigs for ALL things yourself ; let the urls be known publicly and don't change them.
ben_vulpes: fireplace just ain't a worthwhile thing unless you've got the woodpile to keep ti at least smouldering all day, roaring at night, and pretty lasses to keep it stoked. nevertheless, i'll enjoy this one while i have it.
mircea_popescu: (and i am deeply unsurprised the anglotards know not what they talk of. country of whiskey drinkers and so on)
ben_vulpes: oh and it hasta be large enough to fit benches *inside*
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes are you making a stove or a cookery
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm rhapsodizing about my tiny fireplace
mircea_popescu: how big is it ?
mircea_popescu: standard item about 2-3 m3, though it can be made larger (there's a twinning method)
ben_vulpes: .8m x .64 m
asciilifeform: << example ( ours was considerably larger, iirc )
mircea_popescu: remarkab ly small. i dunno whether it's a work-of-art omfg i can't believe master stovier managed to get the smokes crushed into that space or rather "we dunno what we did". i could guess, but why guess.
ben_vulpes: can i get a link to this "dutch stove" marvel fo engineering?
asciilifeform: it's an item that spans multiple rooms, and the stones ( the walls are stone, not shitwall, necessarily ) retain heat
mircea_popescu: aaanyway -- is ben_vulpes going to make himself smoker next, grow rich out of feeding quality breakfast meats to the greater cascadia ?
ben_vulpes: holy shit what even is that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: stove.
ben_vulpes: i have a hole in the wall into which i pour bezzlars and light them on fire for fun
mircea_popescu: that looks swedish style.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ours had statues of cherubs on top, as early 1900s bling fluorish. 1 cherub was missing his head. legend was, ro soldiers shot it for target practice, with luger.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 'greater cascadia' ain't welcome in my domus
mod6: Sorry, was just lookin through logs. Might have mis-remembered that.
mircea_popescu: it's as old and culturally relevant as musical instruments (violins, say)
mircea_popescu: as it happens a major center was at tirgu secuiesc in ro. apparently still active, they fix and rebuild.
ben_vulpes: ah i have seen variations on this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is somewhat different item. in the ru variant, the firebox is in the hallway, and the tiled item is smooth/without openings; the chimney is concealed in the wall
mircea_popescu: and yes many of them are built cross-wall.
ben_vulpes: large thermal mass, engineering time spent to ensure complete combustion, sometimes a long horizontal chimney too?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and if you do a calorimetry experiment you'll see the austrian item converts nigh on 8% more than the swedish system
asciilifeform: i can picture.
mircea_popescu: this is why this interests me, "make stove, with 1700s tech, i'll put it in the calorimeter and measure your %"
mircea_popescu: turns out there was a remarkably good solution, and a bunch of notbad ones.
asciilifeform: the troo tragedy is that idiot orcs have mostly demolished these by nao. even when asciilifeform was a boy, slipping into attics and cellars in those massive blocks of flats, found piles and piles of rubble -- from illicitly-demolished stoves, 'Just Wanted Moar Space in flat' types
ben_vulpes: anyways, way the heck upstack, `FZ_Clear` 'sets a given FZ to zero' but i only see an outparam; is this not more of a constructor than zero-er?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^
mircea_popescu: aside the matter that the problem hasn't been approached in postmoidernism, i dun see much better solutions available than historically found.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is no 'constructor' in ffa . and FZ_Clear does exactly as printed on the box
asciilifeform: i.e. writes 0 into each word of the destination.
ben_vulpes: ah because you still pass outparams into a function call
mircea_popescu: << the shin is not the tibia, the shin is the front part of the lower segment of human leg, opposite calf.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:48 ben_vulpes: << gotta ask, how didjer *bones* cramp up boss
asciilifeform: procedure, ben_vulpes . not function
asciilifeform: ( these are different animals in ada planet )
asciilifeform: 'out' param means exactly that -- write-only
ben_vulpes: okay i'll look into that.
ben_vulpes: so 'in out' means that data can be read from the param and will also be written into, whereas 'out' means that data will only be written to the param in the procedure?
asciilifeform: ( ada params are a moar complicated matter than ffa might suggest: when reading heathen proggies you will encounter such things as 'aliased' i.e. pointerola , and related items. )
asciilifeform: << to continue thread : the essential boojum is that you cannot have any kind of good stove, swedish, austrian, whichever, in cardboard house
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 03:09 mircea_popescu: turns out there was a remarkably good solution, and a bunch of notbad ones.
mircea_popescu: no. must be brick walls.
asciilifeform: they all rely on brick aha
mircea_popescu: but, also just as important though not in fact exposed for other reasons : stove IS BUILT IN PLACE.
asciilifeform: nobody conceived that monkeys will try to house themselves in gigantic wooden shacks
mircea_popescu: ie, it was strictly a manor house item historically ; and part of the manorial system in europe.
mircea_popescu: peasant thatched roof, no possibility of chimney etc
asciilifeform: peasant huts had their own type of stove
asciilifeform: ( often enuff where they were burned, you can still find the stove, it stands 4evah )
trinque: heh, in other peasant huts, cannot build gcc 4.9.4 from 6.4.0 on gentoo musl, gotta step to 5.4.0 first.
trinque: this was not always true of the 6.x series; I've done 4.9.4 on it in the past.
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc ben_vulpes recently ran into the same wall
trinque: aha, I recall. can confirm.
trinque now emerge --emptytree @world to see what other mysteries await
mircea_popescu: but, it is very important to revisit and underline ye olde mazarin point ( ie ) : there is constant technological progress, in the PROPER sense (ie, NOT for plebels, but for lords AND FOR LORDS ONLY) going from 700ad to 1700ad. THIS, and THIS ONLY is what gave "technological progress" its good name -- when the lord changed ye olde fireplace in the common k
mircea_popescu: night hall inherited from his granpa with modern teracotta item. THAT was progress, and the knights applauded, and felt proud to fight and die for such a greatly SUPERIOR homeland, as represented by their lords castle, as communicated to them by their god damned STOVE. and by, to quote period, "wer kriegt so prompt wie der preusse sein traktament!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the only otherwise-functional culture that failed to invent proper chimneys, was east asia ( e.g. jp ) where hole-in-the-ceiling
mircea_popescu: in exactly typical socialist fashion, the fucktards have been selling off this item not belonging to them, "technological progress", repainted as "hey, new iphone came out!! it's cheaper and shittier and works less!!!"
mircea_popescu: NOT the fucking same thing. at all!!!
asciilifeform: what am i missing
asciilifeform: chimney, but 'not same thing'
asciilifeform: or hm misparsed?
mircea_popescu: misparse.
mircea_popescu: japan is a weird case, they also failed to invent -- leather footwear.
mircea_popescu: and all sorts of basics.
asciilifeform: lolyes ever see ye olde gravures, with the mousetrap shoes.
mircea_popescu: fate of islands, to suck. japan is basically easter island on steroids.
asciilifeform: ( they look exactly as if )
asciilifeform: aha, island, beggars collected iron nails after a fire, etc.
mircea_popescu: but the reason they are admired, unlike say the chinese, who were never admired and possibly never will be, is because they squeezed so very much of the fucking little the yhad.\
mircea_popescu: ie, right back to the calorimetry-yer-stove discussion.
asciilifeform: nearly escaped the island, even
mircea_popescu: perfection, no matter in what problem, is the only item of interest whatsoever.
asciilifeform: poverty makes some folx frugal, thrifty, able to make wonders 'in 4kB of ram' etc -- others -- into monkeys, and asciilifeform doesn't know why
mircea_popescu: there's a very deep reason why the english landed in china thought china is fit to be a sort of wales -- more distant, populated by dumber monkeys (yes the "gauls" were monkeys -- farming idiots), larger but still, fundamentally fucking wales.
mircea_popescu: and it impressed nobody that "hey, we sum up to X", because the X was so un-intensive.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform landlockness is a major predictor. notice, koreans less retarded than chinese. there's this sweetspot in terms of shore/sqacre basis\
asciilifeform: the chinese had the misfortune to invent the bureaucrat, the 'delusionist' , and other undesirable 'moderns' , 2k yr before europe 'climbed down from trees'
asciilifeform: they still suffer it.
mircea_popescu: no, actually -- they invented it late in the relative game.
mircea_popescu: chinese climbed down from trees 3.5k-ish yearsd before europe.
mircea_popescu: (invention of bureaucracy in europe is no later than diocletian. possibly caesar.)
asciilifeform: it can only happen when empire -- just like can't have a chernobyl before discovering fission
mircea_popescu: history at least supports your view.
mircea_popescu: though various failed bioexperiments such as the pesky northern american troglodytes -- iroquis et all, seemingly managed to invent a bureaucracy-without-empire
mircea_popescu: in the shape of a (bad) solution to "here's the male hut, wut do now"
asciilifeform: an afaik mandatory precondition for bureaucracy , is to have with what to feed the mass of useless folx
asciilifeform: i.e. empire ( unless martians were to drop food... )
mircea_popescu: you can have it in places where the women are relatively infertile and the berry bushes abundant.
asciilifeform: dunno if it makes sense to equate gatherer-monkey to bureaucrat
mircea_popescu: which is why sweden is a shithole, and always was a shithole.
mircea_popescu: large cheap food inputs and low pop growth rate -> surplus to be "used".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the gather monkey is the bureaucrat enabler.
mircea_popescu: consider how the jew system works : balabusta in tyhe shop selling to make money for man to sit all day around sinagogue and godbureaucrat.
asciilifeform: scale model of empire
mircea_popescu: the jews did not invent, it is naturally occuring. in places with high natural food resources at low cost (say fishing in sweden, berry picking in northern us etc) -- happens.
mircea_popescu: more like accidental implementation of some parts of empire.
asciilifeform: herbivore oughta be ready to play his own piece in foodchain, however.
asciilifeform: nobody's passed out exemptions from this.
mircea_popescu: well, fwis they did without complaint, all that's left of "the great iroquis" is the occasional tall, fuckable redskin chick.
mircea_popescu: john bull made 'em beef jerky.
mircea_popescu: << very heavy incline, water makes it wet. turns out you run in a very peculiar manner when mostly trying not to take off under your own mommentum on a water-effect'd road!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:49 mod6: shin-splits or what-not eh?
asciilifeform: the marginally less-herbivorous survived, to slowly eltsin to death in casinos in dakota somewhere
mircea_popescu: just like the swedes.
mircea_popescu: but -- ill grant this readily -- historical good nutrition makes for tall, fuckable broads. so it's not all lost,
mircea_popescu: dungeon ain't gonna populate itself.
asciilifeform: i still have nfi wtf happened to the swedes. in '40s they were an actual thing, supplied something short of 100% of german iron
mircea_popescu: << hey, turns out there's a term for this! i had nfi.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:49 mod6: shin-splits or what-not eh?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "failure to thrive", it's a thing.
asciilifeform: yes but why then.
asciilifeform: they made bank on the war, oughta be ridin' high even nao
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe they come back. they've been really spotty throughout history as it is, like this radio that keeps going in and out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform money is nothing without a dick.
asciilifeform: right, the mystery reduces to who 'bobbitted' them
mircea_popescu: possibly not a who, seeing how event happened over long period. who bobbits pulsar
mircea_popescu: maybe it's just what the pulsar IS
mircea_popescu makes no claim to knowledge re swedes. i just fuck'em is all.
asciilifeform: supposedly typical swede still believes that ( at this point, centenarian ? ) nazis seekreetly run errything in sweden
asciilifeform: and cleverly hide behind the clitlers , somehow.
asciilifeform: ilkka kokkarinen ( ! ) , censored and defrocked-for-failing-to-usgkowtow comp sci professor , described this at some point
asciilifeform: ( he was a finn, and knew swedish )
mircea_popescu: wtf is with all the orc glyps
mircea_popescu does his usual s%\n\n%\r\r% s%\n% % s%\r\r%\n\n% while muttering underbreath about the idiocy of fucktards who STILL DON'T UNDERTAND NEWLINE STANDS FOR NEW PARAGRAPH!!11
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's lifted directly out of the ( long ago vanished ) shitazon 'ebook' copy.
asciilifeform: unprocessed.
mircea_popescu: that has mightly explaining power.
asciilifeform: originally lived in his blog, and presumably looked similar.
asciilifeform: ( also vanished, unsurprisingly )
asciilifeform: !#s ilkka
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
asciilifeform: << in particular. ( notably, it happened TWICE. 1st time he -- iirc -- sued, and won. 2nd time -- gone for good. )
a111: Logged on 2014-11-16 05:31 mircea_popescu: The brilliant Finnish-Canadian computer science professor / blogger Ilkka Kokkarinen has taken down his popular blog, presumably to keep his job after his campus newspaper noticed his heterodox views. His skepticism about the intellectual consistency of lesbian-feminist theory and practice would appear to have been his biggest crime.
asciilifeform: from same thread, << still there, still afaik only copy of his 1st blog in existence on public net
shinohai: ^LOL
asciilifeform: and it isn't boring , either. pretty great stuff.
shinohai: top warez, only in trilema
asciilifeform: the earlier txt , consisted of the 'best-of' of his 2nd blog ( sans the comments )
asciilifeform: he collected, and self-published as shitazon + deadtree ( which i even have, picked up before it was banned ) . then zapped.
asciilifeform: quite characteristically , he was driven into deleting ~own~ errythings
asciilifeform: ( specifically how -- i do not know. but entire case is notable because , unlike typical academitard, fella was known to have balls , and successfully fired said balls even on 1 occasion. but he was not mp, worked for a living, eventually defeated. )
mircea_popescu: "lesbian-feminist" lmao.
mircea_popescu: news at 11, airs of respectability put forth by butch dyke idiocy entirely dependent on nobody pointing and laughing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i work!
mircea_popescu: i just cut myself a slice of cozonac, and put my own ice in my own fucking cinzano. and then, when i wanted a refill, I STOOD UP AND GOT IT.
mircea_popescu: for the first time in a decade, at that. BUT I DID IT!
asciilifeform: speaking of this, brb
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check this out, ikka k. apparently also keenly aware that liberals are generally poor and helpless.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the whole "do you have money ? no ? then shut the fuck up." works so well socially, personally and in general. because they... don't. and they know how to get it and know they can't get it. hence "cat-v" etc.
mircea_popescu: "The entire spectrum of thought of those who we call liberals, progressives, socialists, trendoids or Marxists [ie, what we call pantsuit] depending on what is fashionable today, can be reduced to and explained as the simple automata that they are. After identifying many genuine problems and solving them to the extent that they can be solved, liberalism devolved into naked group identity politics and petty status signaling fo
mircea_popescu: r the verbal New Class, downwardly mobile in not just wealth but also societal respect, and desperate to distinguish itself from the working class. Since this vanguard tends to be paid not enough to do this with classic material means, they have set up a parallel status hierarchy based on the tastes and aspirations of Lloyd Dobler to ensure that they get to be its kings and, mostly, its queens. Even the few rich liberals subs
mircea_popescu: cribe in public, but certainly not in their private actions, to the shibboleths of this group."
mircea_popescu: o hey, check this out...
mircea_popescu: "If I had to describe using only a couple of sentences what it feels like to be a conservative, I would probably compare it to the hypothetical but surreal experience of noticing how many people around you have headaches because they keep banging their heads against the wall. If you don't do anything, that makes you objectively a "part of the problem", especially if you express any distaste towards having to pay for some incr
mircea_popescu: easingly messy bureaucracy that claims to help headache sufferers even though it only ever comes up with increasingly absurd "solutions" to the new problems that its actions conjure up while its proponents do their best to explain away these consistent failures. On the other hand, if you try to help by suggesting that their heads would stop hurting if they just stopped banging them against the wall, you are a "simpleton" who
mircea_popescu: doesn't understand the enormous complexity and the "root causes" of this problem. What can you do, except perhaps escape to one of the few remaining islands of sanity, and hope that the madness doesn't follow you there, at least for a while?"
mircea_popescu: perfectly fine statement ; though of course what you can do is... beat them. doh.
mircea_popescu: hurt a pantsuit today, the worse the better and the more lastingly the more productive.
mircea_popescu: o hey, only took a dozen of these to run aground. here we go :
mircea_popescu: "A few decades ago before all this current silliness started, the humanities and liberal arts departments in academia were badly losing the science wars. After all, even astrology at least makes falsifiable predictions (to say nothing of the fact that stars actually exist), a hurdle far above the abilities of most of the humanities. Desperate to prove that they are just as true and valid systems of thought as all those hard s
mircea_popescu: ciences that get constantly tested and have to prove their correspondence to the uncompromising objective reality every day, no wonder they fell so hard for the postmodernist mumbo-jumbo of Derrida, Latour and Lacan that sweetly whispered in their ears that Western science is only one narrative and "text" among many that are equally valid, and since it is an objective truth that no objective truths exist, science only tries t
mircea_popescu: o justify the right of the white male patriarchal capitalist phallogocentric power hegemony to dictate its values and lifestyle choices on the oppressed groups and silence all hedonistic and rebellious dissent against it. Fast forward to the present day, and now the humanities and liberal arts are solidly left-wing in the culture wars, for various reasons. Surely I can't possibly be the only one to laugh at the unintentional
mircea_popescu: comedy in how they now whine that those global warming deniers disrespect the absolute authority of science, so all those dissenters ought to be silenced and their hedonistic lifestyles curtailed... by force if necessary?"
mircea_popescu: brushing off the "here's how stupid people use microscope as hammer because they're hammer folk and irrespective of microscope in any sense" as thoroughly uninteresting : it's fundamentally true that science, even if properly understood (as in eg ), is still nothing more than one "text", ie, one possible read of pheomena.
asciilifeform: ins'allah electron will go in correct direction!1
mircea_popescu: it's evidently not true that "all reads are equally valid" or in any way just as good ; but it's certainly not the case that science is sufficient per se. this should be directly evident, but even without that : science is, much like nature itself, a SMOOTH process (a valuable reference here being ), and as such WILL get trapped in local maxima. which is why heuristics is a thing, and
a111: Logged on 2017-11-04 16:05 mircea_popescu: that's smooth noise. \
mircea_popescu: also why eg and that whole discussion with "only value of natural language is its ambiguity" and so on.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: but yes, this provides on the side an excellent explanation in this context's terminology of why man must learn languages : it is the ONLY way to have orthogonality in natural speech.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform provided there's a direction in the first place. science is defenseless in front of category error
mircea_popescu: (consider the most scientific attempts to make sewing machine that failed for a century, and the most unscientific eventual solution. also, evidently, airplanes.)
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