Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-11-30 | 2017-12-02 → ↓
mod6: mornin'
asciilifeform: heya mod6
mod6: o7
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ << Trilema - When did America end ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform awww lol y teh haet! dude's trying.
mircea_popescu was even gonna reply to his reply, then noticed the google thing and recalled why he hasn't been commenting, something /me was vaguely wondering about
mircea_popescu: aaand in other news, i just managed to link TWO DOZEN trilema articles from this latest one. i think that takes the cake.
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 1: Genesis.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu !
mats: ugh, at a conf where a fed is pimping ‘trusona’, some biometric nonsense, and telling folks to shitcan passwords
mats: no mention of rsa
mats: not sexy
a111: Logged on 2014-10-19 18:39 asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: biometrics is, imho, the only one proposed so far that has explanatory power for the fact that idiotically lame, e.g., fingerprint readers, nevertheless are happily deployed en masse by usg
mircea_popescu: mats hey, usg's been trying to shitcan the whole it security thing since day one.
mats: admitting to the worthlessness of fingerprints would result in twenty year judicial backlog of reviews
asciilifeform: 100+ yrs.
asciilifeform: and 1e8 accused folx who are no longer half as intimidated into confession.
asciilifeform: Would Be Wrong (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: there is no manner available currently of runing physical-space law&order without the fingerprint construct.
asciilifeform: mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1.
asciilifeform: and got the expected result.
diana_coman goes to read
mircea_popescu: moreover, if you took a year's worth of court practice of your choice, listed all the inferences made in a sort of mega-AST and then sorted this list by tenuousness measured how you will, the fingerprint construct wouldn't make any sort of top.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only because 'religious precept' and nobody even entertains the idea of a serious attack.
mircea_popescu: all society works like this.
asciilifeform: noshit.
mircea_popescu: cannibalism, also "only because... and nobody entertains..."
asciilifeform: 'waddayamean no witches'
mircea_popescu: marrying dudes, fucking children, whatever matter of conventional behaviour is a convention.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 17:19 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ << Trilema - When did America end ?
asciilifeform takes off hat.
mircea_popescu: dja like ?
asciilifeform: 'I do believe it's better this way. She was bitterly sad every day of the last years' reminds asciilifeform of his (younger) grandfather, who narrowly missed the '90s
mircea_popescu: kinda not so enamoured with the shoemeister ?
mircea_popescu: (i find it amusing how all the later day soviet saints have some shoe reference readily accessible to be retrieved by)
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1. <+asciilifeform> and got the expected result. << will take a look for sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which shoemeister
mircea_popescu: you recall, guy was at the un, took shoe off banged table.
asciilifeform: that'd be hrusch
asciilifeform: not the least bit '90s
mircea_popescu: well yes. i took narrowly missing the 90s to mean he lived last days during khruschev's tenure
asciilifeform: mno, died '91.
asciilifeform: hrusch 'retired' in '64
mircea_popescu: o shit, you're right.
asciilifeform: but no, not fan of 'the marked man'
mircea_popescu: i had this brejnev-khruschev thing in my head.
asciilifeform: ( gorby often 'меченый' in folk parlance , from the birthmark )
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf can haz ffa-genesis and subsequent patches inserted into your spiffy patch viewer btcbase.org/patches ??
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
phf: asciilifeform: si, also i'll look for the ada source, pretty sure i have it
asciilifeform: phf: new one
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 17:57 deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 1: Genesis.
phf nods
asciilifeform: phf: i 'pedagogized' it, will be a series of vpatches.
phf: i've been following the log
asciilifeform bbl,meat
phf: though a bit of shame that annotation narrative is lost in vpatch
phf: i also saw your romanian dictionary vpatch, but i'm keeping it out for now, because at 2mb or whatever it is, it's putting some stress on gc
mircea_popescu: oh, is size a consideration in that sense ?
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10597.63, vol: 17290.56679003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10592.0, vol: 87963.98571419 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10660.0, vol: 4760.24698717 | Volume-weighted last average: 10595.8271459
diana_coman: aaand gprbuild 2011-4 apparently is strictly married with gnat4.6; gah
mircea_popescu: !!pay hanbot 5
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: got it!!
asciilifeform: will answer last numeric q in gpggram in a bit , hands full atm
phf: mircea_popescu: it shouldn't be really, i just need to tune it
mircea_popescu: !!pay asciilifeform 0.26916256
phf: but it does do a lot of tedious manipulation of lists of lines, so at >n lines it starts generating a lot of garbage
trinque: mircea_popescu: looks like I have some deposits to credit. one sec. your hanbot one did not go through.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: prepping for travel, will probably review on the plane
phf: asciilifeform: i added your ffa, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=ffa
phf: colorizer is missing ada support, so i'm slowly hacking in the highlighter http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb comments and strings so far. i'm going to add keywords now and then leave it be
mircea_popescu: trinque while at it, can there be an acct history to check on this side ? or what's iyo the ideal approach here
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pantsuit << phf's spiffy histogram rendering the birth of a notion.
trinque: that's coming, full transaction history
phf: nice
asciilifeform: phf: colour is a luxury . for so long as it knows that comments begin with --
asciilifeform: then a-ok
phf: yeah, it does at this point
phf: i've had color disabled in my editors for years now, though some color like comments and string sequences is somewhat handy
mircea_popescu: !!balance
asciilifeform: in the next chapter i will link to this.
mircea_popescu: in other news, this footlong plastic calzador i vbought at flexi (local shoe store) is one hell of a buttpaddle.
mircea_popescu: phf is it double-wide intentionally ?
phf: mircea_popescu: nope, it's a styling bug, which needs to be fixed, but i've been having hard time with it last time i tackled it (but i don't remember what was the issue, something related to tables and <pre>s)
asciilifeform: waitasec wat's doublewide
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform annotation style printouts (every line is followed by an empty line)
asciilifeform: hm not seeing this here
mircea_popescu: basically fits half as much on your screen, but leaves plenty of room for writing in things on paper.
asciilifeform: yea just a few sec ago finally saw, it shows up on lynx
mircea_popescu: it does.
asciilifeform: oh hey phf , colours!!
phf: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb ok i've thrown in reserved words
asciilifeform: pretty great.
mircea_popescu: lol he was live-reloading it
asciilifeform loaded a pg and saw NIL NIL NIL and scratched head
phf: :>
phf: i can do other useful features, like
mircea_popescu: alf's browser (emacs) includes live-browsing extension, sends 4k px wide 100fps film of the page to his tape ticker.
mircea_popescu: alf reviews nightly.
mircea_popescu: cocks useful routine.
phf: makes code more readable
mod6: where are the balls?
mircea_popescu: i guess there should be a product COKCS
asciilifeform: COCKS : COCKS(COCKS .. COCKS) := (COCKS#COCKS#, COCKS COCKS COCKS); << win
mircea_popescu: reminds me of that tarantino monologue
mircea_popescu: where he explains what madona means by "like a virgin"
mod6: dick dick dick dick dick dick
phf: mod6: i've added the feature you requested
mircea_popescu: this is much improved now.
asciilifeform: BALLS COCKS COCKS COCKS .. COCKS(COCKS'BALLS - BALLS) BALLS << ahahahahha
mircea_popescu: finite fucking arithmia.
mod6: phf: lol
asciilifeform: finitely fattening fisarmonica.
mircea_popescu: i have this impression i was doing something but i can't remember what it was now.
mircea_popescu: o right i was reading alf's article.
phf: for future log readers http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb?cocks=true (only works in ada though, because)
mircea_popescu: cock amnesia.
asciilifeform: phf: spiffy
mircea_popescu: phf future log readers can just search archive!
shinohai: I feel happy to be a part of such a grand institution that goes out of the way to be so all-inclusive in the logs.
phf: well, it's also only proper for a long running lisp system to have a *cocks-and-balls* global variable somewhere that subtly affects the behavior
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform reading this backbreaker of an article i must say i r impresst. exactly what ffa needed, too.
mircea_popescu: phf there is that.
mircea_popescu: "fits in head".
shinohai: head of cock precisely
mircea_popescu: shinohai wanna put his thing in r/code or w/e it is, r/crypto, r/weRgrownupsnao ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think the previous runaround was enough punishment for his sins.
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform ! mp-wp has nice names for urls!
mod6: asciilifeform: you may want to update the link to my V in this blog post (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545) as it's old. This is the latest (from the foundation site): http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz (and corresponding sig file): http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz.mod6.sig
mod6: If you to gentlemen would rather not update your blogs, please let me know and I'll post a comment at the bottom of each.
mod6: s/to/two
mod6: lol, asciilifeform ignore that. i already put a comment on your blog.
ben_vulpes: go ahead and leave a comment, mod6
mod6: yup, will leave the same comment on yours, Sir. Thanks.
mircea_popescu: you know it's not a great idea to leave live links to dead urls.
mircea_popescu recently went through his comment section, nulled out dead links. (you'd be surprised what survival rate of commenters pages is like)
mircea_popescu: i looked at thousands of once-there, now deceased sites. pretty depressing as an incidental, facebook made people measurably dumber.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745104 << my heathen one also has'em, but by the time i found out, it was too late, there is no built-in have-it-both-ways
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 21:14 mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform ! mp-wp has nice names for urls!
mircea_popescu: and in other wowz, alf's 2010 material is pretty fucking epic too! http://www.loper-os.org/?p=132 specifically.
asciilifeform: ( and i have hardlinks everywhere, not only in own www, which'd be fixable, but all over heathendom )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mine has it both ways.
asciilifeform: neato, i gotta crib it at some point.
asciilifeform: lotta goodstuff in mp's wp.
mod6: ben_vulpes: is there a comment approval process? I submitted the comment.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 21:24 mod6: lol, asciilifeform ignore that. i already put a comment on your blog.
mod6: asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 -- take a look at the last comment at the bottom. apparently on may 10th of this year.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745114 << i deleted a few folx from my links bar earlier this yr, who turned out to have... actually died
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 21:27 mircea_popescu: i looked at thousands of once-there, now deceased sites. pretty depressing as an incidental, facebook made people measurably dumber.
asciilifeform: was also depressing.
asciilifeform: mod6: aa ok
asciilifeform: neato. possibly only works if you had it going from the beginning ? ( or not. i'll check it out )
mircea_popescu: nobody ever has anything from the beginning.
mircea_popescu: (and it also very usefully 302s, at that)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : lemme know if obvious typos, gaps, or thing dunbuild, etc.
mircea_popescu: i am reading. so far, this is a major achievement, and quite fundamental at that.
mod6: I read the entire thing so far, and it looks great. I have droped the vpatch and sig into my V and pressed it out, which also worked great.
asciilifeform: i sawed it into almost pathologically small jigsaw pieces. e.g. next episode concerns e.g. shifting.
mircea_popescu: everything about it is good right and proper.
mircea_popescu: you are aware there exists no usable "learn to compute" item ANYWHERE ?
mod6: I don't have an ada at my disposal atm. So will do an entire test of the thing tonight and post results as I have them (probably on my site).
mircea_popescu: precisely because universities "became open" and "put online" their inept webcasts etc.
asciilifeform: ( this is something like 3-4 yrs of sweat of asciilifeform , depending on from where we count, dates to original ctronic cardanolib )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it will conveniently double as many things. i will add it to the topic link later today.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite aware. the 1 src that turned out to be reliable reference, was knuth (i.e. a 1960s work)
ben_vulpes: mod6: released
phf: slightly better rendering (will work on padding widths sometime later) http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb
asciilifeform: oh hey looxgreat on lynx and on guitron
phf: also there's a somewhat useful, though non-standard css property "user-select" that lets you select only the code part of the page
asciilifeform: this is quite spiffy and shithub et al dun have it
mircea_popescu: this apple piece makes for fabulous companion reading.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that "older comments" thing is abominable.
asciilifeform: ohyea ancient lulzpiece , iirc was in the l0gz at some point
mircea_popescu: proper blog can load 1k comments.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun think i ever got 1k comments, or near
asciilifeform: but yes
mircea_popescu: so then why "older comments" link bs
asciilifeform: pretty much stock wp, almost exactly as it was in the bush presidency
mircea_popescu: yes well it sucks.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: released << awesome thanks!
mircea_popescu: his pragma list is longer than my penis
asciilifeform: what it does is snippy-snippycut large chunks of the language.
asciilifeform: forbids oop, uniturdism, threads and asynchrony of any form, constructs that require complex runtime support, 'unprincipled exceptions' (chiefly c-style type-casts), pointers (yes), and a few others
asciilifeform: ... the heap. and in fact any form of allocation other than stackframe
asciilifeform: floatingpoint. the 'catching' of exceptions. etc.
asciilifeform: the 2 things i did not forbid (though wanted to) were recursion (can't... karatsuba) and implicit-loops (can't... array assignments)
mircea_popescu: check out teh proof. yes.
trinque: heads up to all, I'll be traveling from about 2.5hrs from now until sunday night.
trinque: pls to send all withdrawal requests in now or wait til sun
asciilifeform: happy travels, trinque
trinque: mega congrats to asciilifeform on his first ffa post, will read soon.
asciilifeform: trinque: it is largely old material, but carefully portioned and commented.
mircea_popescu: perfect airflight fodder heh
asciilifeform fixed a handful of typos
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> dja like ? << very nice post, indeed.
mircea_popescu: taking comments.\
asciilifeform: ohheyheyheylbj!
mod6: ah cool
mod6 looks
mod6: neato
mircea_popescu: in other news nobody cares about, usg.state's main asset in romania looks well headed to jail. kovesi (special "anti-corruption prosecutor") lied about meeting various politicians (as part of usg embassy-directed http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743878 scandal).
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 19:30 mircea_popescu: "don't vote for x, he not only would confiscate our constanta base BUT IS VERY CORRUPT" sorta bs.
asciilifeform: betcha he'll turn up in miamistan soon then.
mircea_popescu: all the rices are shes.
asciilifeform: interesting; had nfi.
asciilifeform recalls the juice she-prosecutor from old thread...
mircea_popescu: which one was that ?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 18:55 asciilifeform: http://p.ocdn.ee/4/i/2015/11/12/tfkyk4ty.t3l.jpg << in other mega-chix
mod6: yikes
mircea_popescu: congenital retards ftw
asciilifeform: supposedly was from pregnancy or somehow.
asciilifeform: (i.e. temporary)
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, in heathendom, https://archive.is/Oyq47 >> bitpay 'We are now beginning the work to require Payment Protocol wallet payments for all BitPay invoices.' << i had nfi this mikehearnism still lived on, even in zombieform
asciilifeform: the one where hearbleed was to be merged in, that one.
mircea_popescu: what is it even ?
asciilifeform: prbism where you gotta tcp to somebody's box to pay him, or something of the kind
asciilifeform: 'When a Payment Protocol wallet interacts with a Payment Protocol URL, it creates an SSL-secured connection to the true owner of the receiving bitcoin address (in this case, BitPay).' etc
asciilifeform: sslism.
mircea_popescu: so what, they'll pretend they didn't get paid with tx in the blockchgain ?
asciilifeform: the excuse being 'We can also analyze transactions to make sure an adequate bitcoin miner fee is included. If the fee isn't sufficient to allow the transaction to confirm on the bitcoin network on time, BitPay can return a helpful message back to the wallet to let the user know. Mistaken payments will never reach the Bitcoin network.'
mircea_popescu: seems unlikely, they;'re marginal as it is.
asciilifeform: it's a resurrection of circa-2014 embraceandextendism -- 'let's impose prbtronic sslistic payment-via-tcp, and at the same time spam some moar spamola, make blox less breathable'
asciilifeform: 'If you are using the BitPay, Copay, Mycelium, or Electrum wallets for your bitcoin payments, nothing will change. These true bitcoin wallets all already "speak" Payment Protocol. If you are using a non-Payment Protocol wallet or service to pay BitPay invoices, you will need to move your spending bitcoin to a wallet or service which can support Payment Protocol. We strongly recommend that you use a true bitcoin wallet for spending to
asciilifeform: avoid delayed transactions, but you will be able to use any service compatible with Payment Protocol.'
asciilifeform: i.e. all of the major heathen fronts, nominally on board.
asciilifeform: 'whaddayeamean you don't want ssl in the loop, and put it all through nsa cables, terrorist.'
mircea_popescu: um. so literally, they say pay x to y, you do, they go "lalala" ?
mircea_popescu: this'd be pretty lulzy.
asciilifeform: i suppose it will be propped up with 'hey it was in shitoshi 1.0, so He Meant This To Be' crapolade.
asciilifeform: ( iirc some variant of this idiocy was in fact present in 0.3 )
mircea_popescu: lets get teh popcorns then.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's better to "sacrifice" self on the noble altar of high socialist ideals than to simply admit that can't make money and can't continue supporting losses.
asciilifeform: dunno that bitpay et al ever had the intention of making profit.
asciilifeform: it's a tentacle.
mircea_popescu: started as a for profit, for sure.
asciilifeform: 'we recommend that wallets take an additional step and not broadcast payments rejected via the Bitcoin Payment Protocol' didjaknow
mircea_popescu: ah so the idea basically is to tell the inexistent miner cartel not to mine txns they don't want ?
mircea_popescu: hey, soft forks upon soft forks, why the hell not.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, new car theft method : drink a bottle of coca-cola, screw the tap back on, stick it in between wheel and chassis on parked car, wait for owner to get in and try to leave. the bottle will sound, the muppet will get out of the car to see, at which point you can just leave with it.
asciilifeform: 'Customers with mistaken payments only receive partial refunds of the BTC they sent because of miner fee costs. One customer of a BitPay merchant recently spent 0.003853 BTC on a payment which was mistakenly underpaid by a small amount. They were only able to receive a refund of 0.002247 BTC. This is not the experience we want bitcoin users to have.' << 'use our gox or Lose It All!111' etc
asciilifeform: lol who gets out and leaves key ?!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( iirc some variant of this idiocy was in fact present in 0.3 ) << The one they use now did not exist till 0.9
asciilifeform: or is idea that you whack'im over the head
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from the perspective of "we're trying to survive mp" it is perfectly understandable. miner fees per tx are rapidly growing to a size comparable to the "walmart one item cost", which is what bitpay & all are willy-nilly married to.
mircea_popescu: they wanted smaller fees for a reason.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 90% of women and 50% of men.
asciilifeform: wanted small fees -- shouldn't have 'stress tested'
mircea_popescu: toolate.jpg
mircea_popescu: this is how the empire fails, takes local optimums.
asciilifeform: for some reason ( and from both threads, oddly ) asciilifeform recalls the classic monkey trap, with the coconut
asciilifeform: ohai TomServo
asciilifeform: 3 of what ?
mircea_popescu: and since we're doing ro lulz, http://sov.ro/2017/11/21/capitolul-59-imi-veti-plati-4-miliarde-de-euro/ ( http://trilema.com/2010/ticalosul-si-libertatea/ rewriting http://trilema.com/2010/in-opera-sa-ne-masuram/ forgetting, of course, the "i'm just re-writing mp poorly years later" coda)
asciilifeform: lol sov.ro
asciilifeform: is it meant to evoke sovroms ?
mircea_popescu: guy was a major... well, like bill gates, or khodorovsky, however you call the faux business men produced by governments. except in ro, so he's talking 1e7 rather than 1e10
diana_coman: "Note that endianness is irrelevant, here and elsewhere in FFA" <- FINALLY! esp given my recent keccak-induced headaches on the topic, I am delighted to read this; will dig deeper into ffa ch1 over the weekend
asciilifeform: 'O țară de talia României nu are cum supraviețui în afara uni bloc economic' << really ?? really?
asciilifeform: and best kr ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform initialism, sorin ovidiu vintu
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the trick to endian-agnostic mechanisms is to never byte-address. at all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he has a point though. you need someone as doggedly determined as ceausescu to keep the thing afloat. economic blocs are a reality for what, 50 years now ? euro "common market" was not particularily DESIRED.
mircea_popescu: just unavoidable.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: observe that the one place where we give any shit at all re octets, is the printer, and there we simply shift Byteness*2 times.
diana_coman: ofc; but idiotic keccac "reference" implementation goes about reading *bytes* although spec clearly talks of bits and at most of z-dimension long array of bytes and as a consequence madness necessarily ensues
diana_coman: as I said: my recent headaches on the topic made this absolutely pop out to me
asciilifeform: diana_coman: fortunately ffa is an arithmetron not an academitard-designed hashtron, and doesn't ever need to care about bytes, worx in units of machineword.
diana_coman: array of bits* there
asciilifeform: i'd sit down and do a proper incarnation of keccak, diana_coman , but i have maybe half a free hand and 40 hands worth of what to do..
asciilifeform: incl. unspeakable saecular horrors
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I sorted out some ada implementation and will post it; atm the struggle is more to figure out the "test vectors" for full sponge because of all this madness
asciilifeform: yea afaik nobody ever made a proper one
TomServo: asciilifeform: 3 of what ? << 3 reasons to not leave myself voiced while I'm clumsily reading scrollback, I suppose.
asciilifeform: TomServo: tried ffa ch1 tutorial yet ?
mircea_popescu: lol this guy
TomServo: I can barely fit a bite in my mouth.
TomServo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726202 << They did actually. 1998 'Gia', with Angelina Jolie, if you count HBO movies.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 17:12 mircea_popescu: and speaking of aids-en : isn't it a pity nobody's yet made a film out of gia carangi's life ? that chick was ACTUALLY a model, in the most proper of senses.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's spam collector, ' Start live in Germany in only 15 days. In 2 months you will receive the Residence Permits. '
asciilifeform not previously seen this flavour.
phf: edi weitz nuked all his lisp stuff, with a redirect to shithub. naturally if you want to look for documentation you have to go to ???
asciilifeform: when did this happen phf
phf: must've been couple of days
ben_vulpes: why would an ancient lisp hacker give two shits re what the kids are doing?
phf: note that the redirect says "~most~ of the common lisp stuff is now on shithub"
phf: because for example his lispworks extension hacks are nowhere but archive.org at this point
asciilifeform: i would have guessed 'starved, lost server' but ~something~ is still hosting that pg
phf: i believe the only correct solution at this point are terabyte backup drives with everything you ever touch, i suppose that's what asciilifeform's been doing for a while now
asciilifeform: fortunately cheap nao.
phf: time isn't though
phf: well, scratch that, i'm just ranting. once you have the setup, it's a pretty smooth operation i suppose. i just don't want to bother with the whole backing up the internet thing
phf: but that's in the "i just want to" territory, so tough.
mircea_popescu: TomServo i count that like i count microsoft windows offering. it's the anti-item. gia is all about fucking, not all about being a dork.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: That's about what I figured, but in case you were unaware.
mircea_popescu: i saw it, it offended me.
asciilifeform: phf: it may interest you to know that i dun have any fancy setup, beyond e.g. wget -m -r ...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think it's because computing class is postodctoral, whereas language class is highschool. so they learn the x:=a a:=b b:=x "trick" way before anyone even explains xor.
asciilifeform: hm where does one learn to program, but not see xor.
asciilifeform: even in american school first we did gate etc.
asciilifeform: ( not speaking of uni, either, but of plain old plebeschool )
mircea_popescu: very much a case of "are you trying to learn how to fly the f-14 on the basis of having been a f-4 pilot, or are you trying to learn how to fly the f-14 because you loved f-14 flight sim on crapple as a teen ?"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "numerical methods for mechanical engineers", for one
ben_vulpes: also known as "enough matlab to make completely convincing fabrications"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and f4 man luvved his father's crop duster
asciilifeform: everyone starts somewhere.
mircea_popescu: "double ugly flying anvil"
mircea_popescu: "the triumph of thrust over fluid flow"
asciilifeform softly sings canonical 'Мой Фантом, как пуля быстрый, в небе голубом и чистом, с ревом набирает высоту...'
mircea_popescu: and, importantly, luftverteidingungsdiesel
phf: asciilifeform: i'm pretty sure i've not even seen xor mentioned at umd. i learned about it first and last at evening math school in moscow
mircea_popescu: "it is better for your jet fighter to resemble a stove than a wafer".
asciilifeform: phf: how didja avoid system architecture ( iirc #311 ) ?
asciilifeform: or 'discretes' ( #250 ) ?
mircea_popescu discovered xor while trying to make z80 gfx as a 7-8-9yo.
phf: well, i was placed straight into 300 levels, but i recall 311 being fast and loose with actual teaching.
mircea_popescu: (thing had programmable characters, you could define your own 8x8 bitfield glyph, anyone recall ?
mircea_popescu: HAD UNICODE SUPPORT! CORRECTLY MADE!
asciilifeform: what chars a particular z80tron had, depended on chipset eh
phf: maybe they taught it, but seeing a boolean map really translate into understanding of how you apply dat shit to bit twiddling etc.
mircea_popescu: also had direct-to-memory (via poke) chartable switching :D
phf: /seeing/does seeing/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most cards on pc from ega up also let define 8x8 char
asciilifeform: sorta how orcs were able to koi8 etc
asciilifeform: even on c64 ( 1980s micro popular in the west ) it was pretty simple. was my 1st comp in usa, and i wrote a cyrillic thing, but useless ( what to read! )
phf: mircea_popescu: actually that's probably more correct, i have vague memory of doing xor in pascal maybe to do leet vga graphixxx
mircea_popescu: good soviet types in the book he wants to read.
asciilifeform: phf: certainly can't do e.g. spritegraphics without xor.
mircea_popescu: phf pascal was huge letdown for me, either didn't have or i didn't know how to get to the direct memory diddle.
mircea_popescu: borlandc much better.
asciilifeform: i had the borland pascal
mircea_popescu: 6.0 iirc
asciilifeform: !# SWAG
asciilifeform: !#s SWAG
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:24 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615371 << the nutrient alone is not enough to produce maggots. e.g., 'SWAG' archive ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-18#1241627 ) of pascal snippets existed, was first class . 0 maggotry.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the concept of "programming" in a sense other than direct memory write was something i had to deliberately learn against inclination. like mult table, about the same time. "wtf is this bs and why am i writing words"
asciilifeform: phunphakt, ada was originally a contest ( in chet-era usa mil ) and 'green ada' , a iirc french entrant, won; was made by pascalists. ergo today's looks quite like pascal
phf: (this is pretty apropos chuck moore links from few days ago)
asciilifeform: ( with quite minor, in the big picture, differences )
mircea_popescu: i recall that story ye.
asciilifeform: the other interesting bit, niklaus wirth ( pascal ) afaik still alive. and even made own machine, chuck-moore-style, and os, 'oberon'
asciilifeform: many interesting concepts therein.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a fundamental divide between people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "basically large phone switchboard with robotic switchmaid" and people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "squee! apple drawing thing!"
mircea_popescu: the latter i expect will be the "x switch" folk.
asciilifeform: !~google wirth plea for lean software
jhvh1: asciilifeform: A plea for lean software - Computer: <https://cr.yp.to/bib/1995/wirth.pdf>; Niklaus Wirth : A Plea for Lean Software (1995) [pdf] | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item%3Fid%3D8301511>; Niklaus Wirth - A Plea for Lean Software .pdf - GitHub: <https://github.com/sysprv/demo-corporate-documentation-public/blob/master/Niklaus%2520Wirth%2520-%2520A%2520Plea%2520for%2520Lean%2520
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> anyway, there's a fundamental divide between people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "basically large phone switchboard with robotic switchmaid" and people whose intuitive understanding of computer is "squee! apple drawing thing!" << In sixth grade computer (Apple II) was introduced to class as drawing thing (turtle graphics)
BingoBoingo: 7th grade computer reintoduced (Mac Classic I) as "typewriter substitute"
BingoBoingo: 9th grade computer (iMac G3) reintroduced again as "Internet lives here"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in so far as i can tell, having access to actual comp is not necessarily good for a kid
BingoBoingo: So it is increasingly appearing
asciilifeform: it isn't necessarily lethal; but not automagically great.
mircea_popescu: just like everything elser.
BingoBoingo: Major determiner likely WHO introduces
mircea_popescu: nitric acid also not automagically great even if not necessarily lethal.
asciilifeform: the uncrossable divide seems to be pre- vs post- reddit age.
mircea_popescu: two major divides : a) post cunt-is-for-fucking late 80s what with the condoms, pills, disco scene end and b) pre internet-is-for-everyone 2005 or so
mircea_popescu: the petri dish had exactly one generation's worth of leak.
asciilifeform: some dour 'oldfag' might say '93
mircea_popescu: nah, the damage wasn't really done even in 1999.
asciilifeform: in '99 usenet was still functioning and reasonably readable, say.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform -- was reading.
asciilifeform: msdos was still bootable on readily-available iron. vga card -- programmable. etc
mircea_popescu: pretty much everything, from usenet to "what will the chick you pick up via irc or from a game lan party say".
asciilifeform: in '99 the net was still something that 'hm, i'ma turn on modem, dial, sync my newsreader, then it's yer turn, brother' etc
mircea_popescu: i dunno if anyone remembers, BUT! there was a point in earth's history when what chick said was not automatically dumb.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in usa that was prolly some time before wilson, so i never saw
mircea_popescu: no wai. in 1999 if female stood up in say polynomial interpolation class, you didn't just check out.
asciilifeform: yea but none did
mircea_popescu: it happened!
asciilifeform believes.
mircea_popescu: in my topgun hs class we had a chick being chem first hand and another being either math or physics 2nd hand, whichever line was thin.
mircea_popescu: this is respectable, 2 out of 7/8 or so people.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's elder brother's program-su-pdp-clone instructor, was a chick, reportedly
asciilifeform: 1990-91 iirc
asciilifeform: but in usa as mircea_popescu put it 'there COULD have been green beret, but then nope'
mircea_popescu: pretty fucking sad.
asciilifeform: verily.
mircea_popescu: you know for a fact that in 3-400mn walkers there's at least a dozen or two chicks who could have done it.
mircea_popescu: and well... nope. ACCESS DENIED.
mircea_popescu: and the whole fucking point is SPECIFICALLY so that they can't accomplish anything and get fucked in exactly the way blacks got fucked via obamaing.
mircea_popescu: misoginy turned up to the >9000.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-30 18:58 asciilifeform: find new and new crops of fresh 'we owe everything we have to the great inca' nobodies ?
mircea_popescu: scandalous.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745291 << kinda what the whole archives lobbes and others been working on is all about
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 23:44 phf: well, scratch that, i'm just ranting. once you have the setup, it's a pretty smooth operation i suppose. i just don't want to bother with the whole backing up the internet thing
mircea_popescu: "dump in chan, forget about it"
mircea_popescu: yes, large, difficult, etc task. not however avoidable, in the end.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it dun have infinite depth tho ( impractical )
mircea_popescu: nothing infinite is ever practical, so this objection is moot.
asciilifeform: not an objection to having an archivebot
asciilifeform: but must point out that it does not magick away the problem of rot.
mircea_popescu: (i guess this isn't obvious to anyone but me, but obviously once the item is in chan the very first next extension is "now let it take a list of urls in paste from user")
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some kind of uci is the only possible solution to "superinformation highway" potholes.
asciilifeform: ( recently asciilifeform found and of course locally mirrored some rando d00d's ftp with a few GB of bolixism. this is not imho properly a job for auto-archivebot, normally )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, notable unsolvedproblem.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how to evaluate yet if you're right.
mircea_popescu: (in other news, #trilema fucking takes the cake in terms of error messages.)
mircea_popescu: the above. "E1337 : i dunno how to evaluate if you're right".
mircea_popescu now wants a computer LIKE THAT!
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 19:50 asciilifeform: when you push it, the word правильно (CORRECT)
mircea_popescu: amusingly, ru "correct" is moar like "legal" than anything.
mircea_popescu: "regular" lessay.
asciilifeform: no odder than engl word 'right'
mircea_popescu: well... correct is from straight. so is right.
mircea_popescu: not from legal. which would make the alien anthropologist suspect the russkis have the great inca, not the usskis.
asciilifeform: they certainly had 'great inca', before columbus sailed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, if you want another vignette : dan adamescu was this fellow, 2nd richest romanian (excluding mp, of course) in 2013. then the govt took its krysha back, his company magically was now bankrupt, by 2016 he was being sent to jail for supposedly trying to bribe the judgtes in a 1e8 civil case with 20k. early 2017 had died, of septicemia, for which he had been placed in medical coma. it all begun with a knee ope
mircea_popescu: ration. guess what made it necessary.
asciilifeform: lol kneecapped?
mircea_popescu: the guy's son somehow managed to have teh ICSID tell the romanians to get fucked (they actually had an interpol "arrest warrant" out for the guy)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well... prison life can be hard for a 68 yo whom teh russians particularly dun like. bonus points : his lawyer "suicided" self by jumping before train.
asciilifeform: i dun get it, what was the ru aspect
mircea_popescu: can't say i exactly get it either, but it wasn't teh usians so what exactly is lefty.
asciilifeform: swedes!11
mircea_popescu: i... guess.
mircea_popescu: maybe it was the ukrs!!1
mircea_popescu: it conceivably was a bit of personal bitterness over some ancient story about taping people in hotels. or any other thing.
asciilifeform: could be just about anyone and anything, asciilifeform is wholly unequipped to say.
asciilifeform: ( sometimes it is very obvious who-whom, when demonstrative and spectacular polonium tea etc.; but this is rare. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: item XI in http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic refers to i suspect an unrenumbered X
asciilifeform: ( or hm, maybe not )
mod6: asciilifeform: my gprbuild threw some errors like "invalid restriction identifier "No_Implicit_Protected_Object_Allocations"" : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JKdvZ/?raw=true
asciilifeform: which gnat, mod6 !
asciilifeform: nm it's in there
asciilifeform: i tested on gnu's, but 2016
asciilifeform: entirely possibly 2015 didn't have those knobs.
mod6: ah. maybe this one is too old. i'll work on that.
asciilifeform: you can comment out the pertinent knobs, see if any other caltrops.
mod6: ok
asciilifeform: ( prolly i oughta lose the last 2 at least, tasking is already off )
mod6: Ok, I commented out the four restrictions that it complained about then : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FaQpe/?raw=true
mod6: Looks good :]
asciilifeform bbl,meat
mod6: I'll try see about finding a new gnat laying around and try that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems not ?
mod6: ah ya, st. paul
asciilifeform: i get empty page
lobbes: phf aha nice easter egg with a specific search term in btcbase.org. I'll leave it unmentioned so others may have the joy of stumbling on it :)
phf: lobbes: hehe, you probably ran into me testing a feature, but that's a good idea :)
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