Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-18 | 2017-07-20 → ↓
mod6: solid logs
mircea_popescu: *thumbsup*
lobbes: BingoBoingo: <lobbes> damn. looks like my plans for my old craptop being a trb node will have to wait until I secure better iron. << Why can old craptop not eat SSD? << wtf I didn't even consider this. And yeah, this'll be a great opportunity to clean out the physical crap that's probably choking out the airflow in the thing.
ave1: mod6, asciilifeform: I've been playing with GNAT versions and the fact code
a111: Logged on 2017-07-16 02:00 mod6: asciilifeform: here's what I get when I grab the generic Makefile, and use your fact.tar.gz: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RaNYu/?raw=true
ave1: Turns out the version of gnat in gcc 4.9.* is based on GNAT GPL 2014 (from adacore)
ave1: (also in gcc 5.*, I've not looked in the 6.* range)
ave1: It seems that version has problems with inlined functions containing inlined functions
ave1: (like the Mul functions...)
shinohai: ave1 .... I got the same error as you (Have not looked into it further yet though)
shinohai: well, same error as mod6
ave1: yes, it seems that FSF gnat (the one in gcc) is not updated recently and for some reason it's really hard to compare version numbers between all the different gnats
asciilifeform: ave1: can't be the reason, i have it working on 4.9
ave1: well I went to the source code of 4.9.4 and GPL 2015 and it differs on this point
ave1: (and GPL 2014 and gcc 4.9.4 are the same)
asciilifeform: anyway if your gnat does this, it is rubbish, throw it out, i will not be v-releasing an ffa where everything is not inlined, each non-inlined routine is a ~10% speed ding.
ave1: I can build a gnat using the sources from adacore and all is fine
ave1: (but the 4.9 gcc from adacore does not match any 4.9.* release from FSF)
shinohai: Lovely, nb
ave1: asciilifeform, how did you get your 4.9 version (I see two version in gentoo) ?
shinohai: !!up fromloper
deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: ave1: by emerging at some point
ave1: p.s. I want to throw it out, but I like to have a version that cross compiles to ppc64le
asciilifeform: ave1: gonna have to patch , then, and cure the retardation.
ave1: and gcc 4.9.4 does so, but the adacore code has problems
asciilifeform: the confiscation of gnat from the idiots is inevitable. may as well begin with this.
ave1: ok, I will do some more banging against the wall on this
shinohai: ave1: Can you link me to the adacore sources that worked for you?
ave1: select GPL-2015 (or 2016)
ave1: select sources
ave1: download gcc-4.9-gpl, gnat-gpl-2016, gcc-interface- files (so 3 files)
ave1: unpack all tree
ave1: copy gnat-gpl-*/src/ad to gcc-4.9-*/gcc/ (so you get an ada dir under gcc)
ave1: ad -> ada
ave1: copy gcc-interface-* to gcc-4.9-*/gcc/ada/gcc-interface (so rename of dir)
ave1: then you have a gcc you can build
ave1: p.s. the portage ebuild does exactly this (plus some gentoo patching)
shinohai: Very resourceful, thank you
mod6: thanks ave1
ave1: p.s I already have a musl build for x86_64 (based on musl_cross) (works on adacore stuff and gcc-4.9.4), but is needs some more work
ave1: I like to default it to building static files binaries
asciilifeform: ^ interesting, i'd like to see this
asciilifeform: it was on my conveyor and promised to be a very gnarly chore
ave1: yes, but mainly because the gnat makefiles hardcode the gnattool names at different places
ave1: one moment, I will look for the diff
ave1: ok, this is the diff (also contains musl diffs from musl_cross)
asciilifeform: of what is the diff ?
ave1: of clean gcc 4.9.4 from FSF to a gcc 4.9.4 that build with musl + gnat
ave1: if you get musl_cross, and replace the gcc-4.9.4-musl.diff therein with this one
asciilifeform: ave1: consider writing down the recipe for this
ave1: plus add ada to the languages to build
ave1: will do, I will probably create version of musl_cross that does all this
asciilifeform: !!rated ave1
deedbot: asciilifeform rated ave1 1 at 2017/05/18 13:13:06 << ada lurker
asciilifeform: !!rate ave1 3 gnatronicist
asciilifeform: !!v 352B78C89FA88878A8EEE992E6C76F66D9EFAB1FF1D0035B53FEB73B163C0B23
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of ave1 from 1 to 3 << gnatronicist
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gavinlandia, https://archive.is/KOhTm >> 'Resolution is to either guarantee there are non-bit1 signaling miners before enforcing (kind of incompatible with the definition of 80% activation), or manually guarantee the the graph of enforcing miners is connected.' << d00d realizes that the softshitfork thing won't work without cartel... proceeds to demand one
shinohai: Which leads to lulz such as: http://archive.is/YKyYa
asciilifeform: 'It's also interesting to note that some miners are signalling to orphan themselves. Antpool, BTC.com, and BTC.top are all signalling for BIP 91 with bit 4, but are not signalling for segwit on bit 1. This means that once BIP 91 activates, if they don't change their version number (and it seems that this is a manual process as most mining pools set the version number manually), they will be orphaning their own blocks under the BIP 91
asciilifeform: rules.' << lol julyphorq rerun
asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 have you ever used http://sabotage.tech 's musltronic linux ? or have any idea who maintains it ? invite'em here.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
daffadil: This might be interesting to some: "DNA based Random Key Generation and Management for OTP Encryption"
asciilifeform: hard to think of a more mindblowing idiocy
mircea_popescu: did you read the "whores moaning in orgasmic agony source of rng" thread ?
asciilifeform: yes, totally want to leave UNCHANGEABLE privkey every time you take a shit
asciilifeform: or sneeze
asciilifeform: only a ustard could have conceived of a gem like this.
daffadil: Not necessarily generating privkey from your own DNA.
mircea_popescu: daffadil DID YOU read.
daffadil: Ya I didn't understand all details but I read it.
asciilifeform: daffadil: see also this old, lesser, horror : http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-02#1084139
a111: Logged on 2015-04-02 14:59 asciilifeform: 'Identity-based encryption is a type of public-key encryption in which any arbitrary string (such as a user’s email address) can be used as a public key, enabling data to be protected without the need for long, randomly generated keys or certificates. Today, there are numerous standards for IBE based on Boneh’s work, including IEEE P1363.3 and several IETF RFCs.' << from the press release.
asciilifeform: ( summary : ustards are fixated on 'escrowable' ciphers, as they were called in 1990s, but today they do not use the word . i.e. schemes for getting your privkey to be something THEY can access on a whim )
asciilifeform: 'The advantage of this method is that a binary random sequence of any length can be easily generated from public or private genetic databases. An unlimited number of distinct random sequences can be obtained by multiplexing, shifting or concatenating sequences from different DNA species. To solve the major drawback of the OTP cryptosystems, key storage and transmission, Borda et al. proposed communicating the secure key through the s
asciilifeform: hort identification numbers of the DNA sequences in the database. It is crucial to store the unique secure key in a highly reliable carrier and transmit it through a special secure channel to guarantee the correctness of the secure key'
asciilifeform: this is == to the 18th century 'book cipher'
mircea_popescu: even in the particular that literacy is reserved for a precious few.
asciilifeform: but instead of cheap book, use expensive and usg-indexed dna collections, yes
asciilifeform: the real usgtronic gem here is that there's massive existing investment in 'this is a transform of SOME dna sequence, SOMEWHERE, now tell me which' hardware
asciilifeform: so nao naturally they'd like to trick some idiot, somewhere, into using their pre-indexed fauxotp as an otp...
asciilifeform: just say no to faux otp, folx
mircea_popescu: hey, they keep working to convince idiots someone somewhere would actually WANT to drink carbonic acid solution with 5k brix.
daffadil: Haha yes. As the paper currently presents, the system is not built for privacy, especially if it uses publicly-indexed databases. However I thought that the idea of using mutational randomness as a physical process to generate private keys was interesting.
asciilifeform: daffadil: thoroughly idiotic idea
mircea_popescu: !!rate daffadil -1 lies conversationally.
daffadil: Good ~
mircea_popescu: !!v 9422E13A8FEEF58FB0B30F04A86F39EE53EEC0B80B2271EB6B5B38E61757D500
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of daffadil from 1 to -1 << lies conversationally.
trinque: d'oh, in-group signaling fail for poar daffadil
mircea_popescu: !!down daffadil
asciilifeform: where did the d00d even come from
mircea_popescu: iirc gl's acquaintance.
asciilifeform: i only know him as a steady source of disconnectolade rubbish
mircea_popescu: in any event, the pretense of hey, we're just talking hurr isn't going to take one far here. if that wasn't obvious.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol, considering how many brits zee germans shot for that...
mircea_popescu: was there an actual german spy shot in britain at any point ?
asciilifeform: handful iirc
asciilifeform: most famously the d00d in the photo -- wasn't
mircea_popescu: but i mean, actual germans, not confused brits
asciilifeform: ( theatric op )
mircea_popescu: still wrong ratio for the pretense!!11
mircea_popescu: it's funny how repeating this pattern is : whosoever is on the receiving end of the cock, whatever the cock may be, doesn't really want porn around.
mircea_popescu: zee germans, getting it in every hole from teh brits, didn't really do much in the way of "shot british spy" photo ops.
mircea_popescu: the brits however, losing more men to spying than to trenchlines in some days, nevertheless...
asciilifeform still lolling over the 'the system is not built for privacy' gem
asciilifeform: 'Не смешно? Зато про войну' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: somehow if you go "the collegiate dorm is not built for modesty" they, the very same they, go in an uproar.
mircea_popescu: "the land is not built for equality", how about that one ?
mircea_popescu: gotta have all female values, an' selective privacy is teh foremost on the list.
asciilifeform: keybasetronic 'crypto' is interesting parallel to, e.g., prb. in both cases the muppetmasters get to rejoice over 'user count' but weep when realizing that nobody of any import is in this count, and the net loot sums to 0
mircea_popescu: something like that.
mircea_popescu: but hey, fair is fair -- everyone gets what he says he wants and then gets to wash his head with it.
asciilifeform: e.g., trump, with his 'encrypted chat' on ipnoje that leaks every fart
asciilifeform: and continues.
mircea_popescu: that was, since i was a wee tyke, the one fascinating, ceaselessly fascinating aspect of the world : that for all teh chagrin and professed despair and broken dreams hopes and aspirations etcetera
mircea_popescu: everyone, at any point, without exception got EXACTLY what they asked for.
asciilifeform: expand?
mircea_popescu: and, as you say, continues.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform empire wants headcount, (because it sold itself on the lie of equality). gets headcount. except...
asciilifeform: aah yes
mircea_popescu: daffadil wants to participate, but does so in the manner of asking for it, and gets it.
mircea_popescu: you can't actually find a case where anyone has any legitimate complaint against the world. hasn't, yet, happened.
asciilifeform: i still reel from the riotous idiocy of even calling a public string 'an otp'
asciilifeform: who the fuck is the target audience of that paper.
mircea_popescu: it's "once upon a timepad" neh /
asciilifeform: it's an potentially infinitely-time pad.
mircea_popescu: that'd just mean it's famous!
mircea_popescu: twu luv!
mircea_popescu: to answer your question : cunt, that still runs on perl, is the intended audience of that paper.
mircea_popescu: the organ is clearly made for reuse and she wants to profess undying attachment.
mircea_popescu: because... you've guessed it... the system was not built for any clear real-ideal bijectivity.
asciilifeform: btw maybe 19 in 20, at this point, papers in 'crypto' are of this type. i.e. having exactly as much to do with genuine crypto as that caterpillar with the snake face has with actual snake.
mircea_popescu: but at least black chix code.
mircea_popescu: if not in their original bodies, then at least as emulated by pasty ass djb-wanna-bes.
asciilifeform: lenin lives in our hearts!111!!
mircea_popescu: and roosevelt in our buttholes!
asciilifeform: where else.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E9359E055174F1B18DFBD4BB1707BFC20C1D4C66EADCF502B3914FBCA6A68171 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1461...4917 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.48.210.98 (ssh-rsa key from 62.48.210.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-wan-bl1-210-98.rev.webside.pt. PT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E9359E055174F1B18DFBD4BB1707BFC20C1D4C66EADCF502B3914FBCA6A68171 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1585...1349 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.48.210.98 (ssh-rsa key from 62.48.210.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-wan-bl1-210-98.rev.webside.pt. PT)
asciilifeform: '..."We have no plans on releasing it to the public," the company executives said'
mircea_popescu: eulora ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 18:10 mircea_popescu: absolutely never licensing any of this. people wish to contribute, they get to participate, not to "just like bitcoin with a little bit of censorship" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: just saying, "releasing it to the public" is not the way the water goes anymore.
asciilifeform: link was re amd's magic key cpu-integrated fritz chip, and how reddit et al 'protested', and reply was - unsurprisingly - 'fuck off'
mircea_popescu: "the public" isn't happening anymore. democracy (as the modernist nonsense) is gone.
asciilifeform: a backdoor ain't burned unless publicly.
asciilifeform: sorta the 1 remaining use of public.
mircea_popescu: really ? because i've personally burned assholes in private. worked fine.
asciilifeform: i met folx who were napoleon in private. worked great... ( for them )
mircea_popescu: suppose for the sake of theory i get the factors to your current key ; and then i send an encyclical to the rest of the wot saying -- alf's key factors, here.
mircea_popescu: burned ? yes. private ? yes. qed ?
asciilifeform: 'what 3 know, the sow knows'
asciilifeform: so no, not private.
mircea_popescu: but the sow would never know.
asciilifeform: and where is the guarantee of this
trinque: same place sina's guarantees are
mircea_popescu: the point here was that ~it was never released to the public~, not that brigher bulbs in the peanut gallery couldn'\t conceivably get hold of.
asciilifeform: lessay this had happened 2y ago. kako would be one of the recipients. and 6mo later, the sow -- would know.
asciilifeform: if you have an 'or', then 'not private'
mircea_popescu: again -- the point is the process not the final state. it was not ~RELEASED TO PUBLIC~. what x y or z found out -- their ~personal~ rather than public problem./
asciilifeform screws in fresh gas mask filter
asciilifeform: aite, process.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if amd fritz chip uses bad crypto and we derive the key, has amd thereby "Released to the public" ? no such thing happened.
asciilifeform: sure is
asciilifeform: phuctor is a public www
asciilifeform: ( whether reddit bothers to read it, is immaterial )
mircea_popescu: by our, not amd's decision.
mircea_popescu: so no, amd hasn't released.
asciilifeform: well yes
trinque: "the public" is an ourdemocracy construct, does not mean "outside" or w/e
mircea_popescu: these distinctions are as important as an yother distinctions in thought.
asciilifeform: naturally it ain't the victim's decision, when his key is phuctored
mircea_popescu: so then.
asciilifeform: trinque: the material posted on phuctor is public in any reasonable sense
mircea_popescu: the problem with pantsuit notions is that they admit no reasonable sense
mircea_popescu: which is why they have to "educate" the black chix so they get out of the netflix reservation
mircea_popescu: "public access"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E3D5B6CEF7C0D4F0C6A1B6DBC8B066E8126C3549DC7105A9499D53CDC4A4174C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1521...8123 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '131.111.222.232 (ssh-rsa key from 131.111.222.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mulberry.newhall.cam.ac.uk. GB CAM ENG)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E3D5B6CEF7C0D4F0C6A1B6DBC8B066E8126C3549DC7105A9499D53CDC4A4174C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1696...1703 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '131.111.222.232 (ssh-rsa key from 131.111.222.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mulberry.newhall.cam.ac.uk. GB CAM ENG)
trinque: asciilifeform: the original claim was there is no longer a "the public"
shinohai: phuctor agrees
asciilifeform: oh this is luvvly:
asciilifeform: 'Murray Edwards is a Cambridge College for women. With so much gender inequality still in the world there is a role for a College able to focus on outstanding young women, their learning and skills for life.'
trinque: or tell me, is the public chiming in re: phuctor? doesn't seem like such a thing cares, if it exists
asciilifeform: 'Murray Edwards College combines real academic excellence with strong pastoral support, as well as being a place where you can feel at home.'
asciilifeform: 'Male-dominated workplace culture alienates talented women'
mircea_popescu: was there any proof of this ever offered btw ? or is it more "global warming" bull ?
asciilifeform: lolproof
mircea_popescu: becauyse in my experience male-dominated workplacfes are the only places talented women express.
mircea_popescu: which is why no more noethers.
mircea_popescu: or adas. or etc.
mircea_popescu: curie happened as the domestic slave of a male ; not as an "equal partner" in a lesbo partnership.
mircea_popescu: and for all the pretense, jorjes sand idem.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
mircea_popescu: not to go into krupskaya and what have you, topless with ak chickdom.
mircea_popescu: !#s manuela pedraza
mircea_popescu: a that's unfortunate. woman went into mountain, watcher her 6 kids starve to deaths.
asciilifeform: daffadil [ab42d109@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.171.66.209.9] has joined << the sheer audacity
trinque: !!v 0A12492FF347C542AF1F6ED29181B4EB700967B92D9ADCBBBDAC92049109ABBC
deedbot: trinque rated daffadil -1 << why do I smell california
mircea_popescu: sucks to be a teen these days.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686774 << that's juana azurduy. pedraza is the other one.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 17:43 mircea_popescu: a that's unfortunate. woman went into mountain, watcher her 6 kids starve to deaths.
mircea_popescu: damn, right you are.
mircea_popescu: poor woman, first they took their children, now they take her story...
hanbot: haunt incoming!
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686659 << he sounds just like that other d guy to me. they all sound the same, they have no male voice.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 16:35 asciilifeform: i only know him as a steady source of disconnectolade rubbish
trinque: they take feminizing drugs and sit on their balls all day hunched over.
trinque: there's going to be no fixing the generation that took psych meds throughout puberty
floog: can confirm, my peers are fucked
asciilifeform: trinque: optimistic. the no-space 'civilized life' creates the bonsaikittens. whatever meds are simply to reduce thrashing.
trinque: more thrashing would've meant beating idiots back and taking over space.
trinque: "sit and behave" drugs are the worst kind of protestant mother.
asciilifeform: trinque: mno. moar space requires http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684456 .
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 18:18 mircea_popescu: war makes the only thing peace never can, that is -- empty space. the value of empty space varies, from negative after a war to infinite during socialism.
trinque: how do you disconnect "reduce thrashing" and "prevent war" in your mind?
asciilifeform: world wars may be staffed by surplus teenagers, but not organized by them.
asciilifeform: recall the chicken farm ? where they saw off the beaks
trinque: I thought hitler's young ass-beaters had something to do with kicking off one.
asciilifeform: the effect of letting the chickens keep the beaks, is not 'chicken liberation', but simply damaged meat
trinque: suppose they were instead on zoloft, in bedroom, trying to get some cum to leak out of their ineffectual dicks
asciilifeform: dope ain't new. goring had his morphine and equally ineffectual cock
asciilifeform: for some reason modern-day lizards prefer that surplus people slowly goring themselves, rather than cleanly blowing one another with mortar and cannon
asciilifeform: but root is the same -- surplus people.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686786 << this is a very interesting point, and it is possible to go to a meatspace gathering of these types, and see this with own eyes
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:12 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686659 << he sounds just like that other d guy to me. they all sound the same, they have no male voice.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-08 14:51 mircea_popescu: but the invisible line that unites curtis yarvin, that "lesswrong" derp, spandrell fellow, the restaurant manager chick yesterday, and on and on an endless list of these, is specifically that they welded the head shut.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686786 ah waht a concept. so basically, barbarian lacks indoor voice ; and pantsuit lacks forum voice.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:12 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686659 << he sounds just like that other d guy to me. they all sound the same, they have no male voice.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686562 << i keep running into this issue myself and half the time it ends up being actual code comparisons to identify wtf is what.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 12:52 ave1: yes, it seems that FSF gnat (the one in gcc) is not updated recently and for some reason it's really hard to compare version numbers between all the different gnats
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/coinbase-to-go-on-trading-vacation-with-your-coins-over-altcoin-fork-hysteria/ << Qntra - Coinbase To Go On Trading Vacation With "Your" Coins Over Altcoin Fork Hysteria
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so far it seems to be that adacore's gnat actually implements the standard; while fsf is a bit moth-eaten
mircea_popescu: not gnat-specific. gnu/linux/unix specific. for some reason they do this retarded shit where package (version - package2 (version2 - package3 (version3))) and then you're more than welcome to buy ytour own flamethrower.
asciilifeform: this also.
mircea_popescu: and scandalously inept shit like "this version of x is part of shitsuite y version k".
mircea_popescu: passing by reference. a mental disease.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 12:53 ave1: well I went to the source code of 4.9.4 and GPL 2015 and it differs on this point
asciilifeform: by reference to hallucinations -- certainly
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686568 << at this point you might even consider publishing the item as a v root under your own signature.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 12:54 ave1: (but the 4.9 gcc from adacore does not match any 4.9.* release from FSF)
BingoBoingo: <trinque> there's going to be no fixing the generation that took psych meds throughout puberty << plenty of possible fixing. Back to 'spec' likely never. Into something possibly.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686596 << ahahaha you got this to take ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 13:09 ave1: I like to default it to building static files binaries
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that part not new, my makefile builds statically
asciilifeform: ( with whatever libc is present )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686599 << right! this "hardcoded paths/names/symbols in makefile because FUCK EVERYTHING!!!" goes just fine with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686817
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 13:11 ave1: yes, but mainly because the gnat makefiles hardcode the gnattool names at different places
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:46 mircea_popescu: not gnat-specific. gnu/linux/unix specific. for some reason they do this retarded shit where package (version - package2 (version2 - package3 (version3))) and then you're more than welcome to buy ytour own flamethrower.
asciilifeform: though, i will point out, not on crapple, where static linking is thoroughly impossible as of late
mircea_popescu: possibly the #1 and #2 spots of dumb.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah do9es it ? for some reason i thought we were still chasing it.
mircea_popescu: so there's a musl ada ?
asciilifeform: ( you can't dns from a statically linked glibc. but this does not bother me )
mircea_popescu: that is a golden fucking feature.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is, ave1 linked to a recipe.
asciilifeform: i was fully expecting to have to do the whole thing from empty space myself
asciilifeform: so pleasant surprise, if it worx.
mircea_popescu: !!rated ave1
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated ave1 1 at 2017/05/18 13:08:19 << slow square!
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 13:21 ave1: of clean gcc 4.9.4 from FSF to a gcc 4.9.4 that build with musl + gnat
asciilifeform: ( fwiw ada makes it reasonably possible to avoid needing ANY libc. but this is for laters. )
mircea_popescu: no this is actually splendid surprise.
mircea_popescu: !!v E06416D79B3939AAC91D5A1B7AAE084754001E6088E5F57F414C7E84D67C4B33
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of ave1 from 1 to 2 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686605
asciilifeform: all it really wants libc for is memcpy() etc. and i/o. total of maybe 6 functions. they really ought to be a separate asm thing, linked optionally and separately.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 13:44 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gavinlandia, https://archive.is/KOhTm >> 'Resolution is to either guarantee there are non-bit1 signaling miners before enforcing (kind of incompatible with the definition of 80% activation), or manually guarantee the the graph of enforcing miners is connected.' << d00d realizes that the softshitfork thing won't work without cartel... proceeds to demand one
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much so yes.
mircea_popescu: some actual review and by-hand rewrite of those roots would actually benefit the republic immensely.
asciilifeform: i have 'p' structured such that all it wants i/o-wise is a 'getbyte' and 'putbyte' that operator can replace with whatever
asciilifeform: this is mainly to build later for microcontroller that just has uart, no file system
asciilifeform: but also has effect of making dispensing with libc a reasonably easy proposition
mircea_popescu: correctness builds upon itself.
asciilifeform: sure does.
mircea_popescu: i sure as fuck would prefer the situation where i have to change half dozen asm quarter-pages to go from x86 to whatever than the current shitwolrd offering.
mircea_popescu: because yes, once http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686858 is done "portability" becomes a very different item than the beast it is today.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:59 mircea_popescu: some actual review and by-hand rewrite of those roots would actually benefit the republic immensely.
asciilifeform: well, e.g., ffa, is 100% portable in the sense where it will build on ANY standards-compliant ada
asciilifeform: 0 arch-specific anything, in it.
asciilifeform: doesn't even care how wide your machineword is
asciilifeform: or what endian.
mircea_popescu: this is the fuckinbg point already.
asciilifeform: ( nao not everyone, turns out, has a standard ada. but this is fixable. )
mircea_popescu: no more hardcoded inept bullshit, magic numbers, inept passing by reference etcetera.
whaack: !!v 5B9284644A2EAB1CDFBAA75044B1B8375BE1901CFB6BB6D60B80BD8AB6A01FAC
deedbot: whaack rated BingoBoingo 1 << qntra editor, adds salt and pepper to my writing
whaack: !!v CB10BF5557FFB0ED2A4E820E3B67D031624999410F4FD19368DA3FBDD5A7497C
deedbot: whaack rated shinohai 1 << qntra writer, helped me a bit with my spanish pronunciation
mircea_popescu: and this is not limited to cpus. it is re evertything. "either your videocard can be asm'd into utility or else it is not actually a video card" "but it works in windows!" "so does your mother."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686799 << the proposition is problematic. hitler was, for all intents and purposes, a farm chicken with beak sawed off.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:26 trinque: I thought hitler's young ass-beaters had something to do with kicking off one.
BingoBoingo: ty whaack
BingoBoingo: !~later tell pete_dushenski How is Blackzilla treating you? Is motor adequately cooled to handle a tortuous Canadian July?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: o right, cuz it gets hot in the rest of the world.
asciilifeform: in other hilarities, https://archive.is/uHp7H >> 'Someone stole ~$32M (~153k ether) from three multisig wallets.'
trinque drives a black gas guzzling 8cyl truck through 100 degree heat, working on that megawatt
mod6: ROLL IT BACK!
ben_vulpes: reputation of usg.polizei continues to decline, no longer safe to even approach cops once you've called for help: http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/minneapolis-australian-woman-killed-by-police/index.html
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, mostly curious how fender flags are going to stick to that thing.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Best part, the cop is a somali
BingoBoingo: Mohamed Noor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the most amusing part is how they keep adding the official fiat value to the shit, as if.
mircea_popescu: "someone stole a dumpster ($32M) from my driveway"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: par of ye olde tradition where crapple stock is 'worth' the moon etc, neh
mircea_popescu: ethereum could buy bitcoin!
shinohai: "Mohamed Moor"
mircea_popescu: washington post could elect pantsuited hilarity president
mircea_popescu: and so on!
mircea_popescu: shinohai bwahaha
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2264.33, vol: 17719.90007047 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2239.955, vol: 7531.19887 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2253.9, vol: 38469.84629269 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2335.58143, vol: 16373.42780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2266.773, vol: 10869.9039012 | Volume-weighted last average: 2271.01803041
asciilifeform: somebody's trying to beat the disconnectolade record, or wut.
asciilifeform finally found the pertinent trilema re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686793 >> '..."feminists" are merely trying to dissolve subjective blocks to regendering, so it's easier for more people to faster embrace what's socially required of them. Seeing how once you've decided to go to the dentist it's really very bad form to pick fights with the anesthesiologist, what exactly do you have against them ? Jus' doin' their job.'
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 18:22 trinque: "sit and behave" drugs are the worst kind of protestant mother.
asciilifeform: in other olds, filed under ucilogy, http://samy.pl/pwnat
asciilifeform somehow missed this when it appeared
mircea_popescu: ah, masquerade as tracert
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: samy really should be here.
asciilifeform: invite'im?
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the circus, https://archive.is/8bnEI
shinohai: My God that thread is a lulzfest of begging redditards
mod6: omg send me ur scamcoinz for lambos and blunts!
asciilifeform: trabambos
mod6: scambos
mircea_popescu: laugh if you will, but the ENTIRE experience of wealth ustard enjoys is exactly this and nothing else. from the kid begging his parents for a lambo truck / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s8XilZa2WY all the way up to the fiat captains of industry, stuck between being "too big to fail" and being FED-fed anyway.
mircea_popescu: soon enough it's http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-16#-121196 and then it's "rich people don't learn languages" and on it goes from there.
a111: Logged on 2013-02-16 14:17 Diablo-D3: people who are that rich dont hang out on IRC
shinohai: The point of being rich is doing whatever the fuck you want, be it irc or cursing whores in Latin
mircea_popescu: no, you gotta get a credit card to buy more cars with.
mircea_popescu: and in vintage trilemas i give you... the BEATTIE! http://trilema.com/2012/shampoo/#selection-57.620-57.938
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686927 << ustard's conception of wealth is precisely 'neverending creditcard' -- see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631922
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 22:21 mircea_popescu: no, you gotta get a credit card to buy more cars with.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 17:06 asciilifeform: not long ago i saw a photo of some american mega-rich d00d, forget who, and nobody cares, his refrigerator, was full of synthetic 'budveiser' beer
mircea_popescu: "corporate account"
a111: Logged on 2017-07-07 23:52 phf: mondo 2000, the proto valley crowd, i think we had the thread. basically, jwz.
phf: it's fun to look at the early valley culture artifacts. if nothing else this shit was still edgy compared to what it eventually turned into
phf: articles by robert anton wilson, timophy leary interviews william gibson, psychic tv talking about rave culture
phf: also vaguely related, a comic about "cyber-" culture, and the early (i.e. pre-mondo) valley excitement. i found it to be highly entertaining when viewed through the tmsr prism. http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/almostguy/
mircea_popescu: i recall electricsheep
ben_vulpes: this looks extremely familiar
ben_vulpes: ahah this yeah
shinohai: !!v 3DC8C7A2D11E890D1A92E997B499D3AECD28849433351C3EE1F7EA894D2FB0FC
deedbot: shinohai rated ave1 1 << Helpful Ada advice http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686592
mod6: evenin'
mircea_popescu: how's trix
mod6: good!
asciilifeform remembers this comic
asciilifeform: 'At the appointed time, Our Benevolent Corporate Patriarchs would "lift the curtains" and invite us all into the wondrous Future they'd made ready for us. We'd all be welcome; the Future, by its very nature, was cheerful and inclusive. In the meantime, while they were getting it all ready, the corporations would allow us to experience the Future in short, controlled bursts, such as the World's Fair Expo, or Disney World's Tomorrowlan
mircea_popescu: entitlowank. somehow it wasn't so offensive in the 90s
asciilifeform: because it wasn't an illusion only lived by the wankers. but, to some extent i suspect by everyone, this notion that 'there's enough sunlight'
asciilifeform: 'live an' let live' etc
mircea_popescu: no. i recall the faggots, not yet VERY overweight, going to the things that meanwhile got captured by apple, much like coca-cola captured xmas
mircea_popescu: "the so and so fair!" cars, gadgets, whatever.
mircea_popescu: they looked ridiculous, yes, but they were not yet offensive.
asciilifeform: did seem like harmless nonsense neh
mircea_popescu: tho i harbored no notion of their presence being acceptable at my table.
mircea_popescu: yup. quite exactly.
asciilifeform: you wouldn't invite a walrus to your table either ( other than perhaps as main course )
asciilifeform: but dun feel actively disgusted by the fact that, over there up north, there he is.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the first time black fucktoy whispers nonsense in the bedroom it's rather condiment than a reason to flay her kind alive.
mircea_popescu: anyway. they DID have this glare in eye liek exactly as described. as if they believed celestial mom and dad are preparing the feasrt for them, and they best but fidgetingly wait.
asciilifeform: the feast indeed was in the works. but the dishes not quite what the feasters imagine, no.
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt anyone at any level had any plans besides "paradise begins once we outlive the soviets"
asciilifeform: teenagers ( as in subj of comic ) dun have plans.
asciilifeform: ( they may have hallucinations of future but that's about it )
mircea_popescu: i meant anyone. reagan. name it.
asciilifeform: reagan et al planned for exactly what they got : an extra ~three decades of Moar Time from the reaper
asciilifeform: powered by battery charged by stalin
mircea_popescu: i wonder what batteries we're charging.
asciilifeform: it is not given to know.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686933 << when phf first described subj, asciilifeform thought 'what if i saw it then, would it have made sense, appealed?' but now i know -- no
mircea_popescu: kinda hard to know such
asciilifeform: it's shannonized rubbish
asciilifeform: would not have made any moar sense than mormon bible
asciilifeform: 1989 issue, p.25, ad: 'Cray on a chip. ... The computing power of a Cray supercomputer will be accessible to PC owners by the end of this year thanks to the Intel i860 Megaprocessor. ...'
asciilifeform: almost beggars belief that intel paid to advertise in this rag
asciilifeform: for one thing, ~all of the other ads, are for witchcraft ( magical dream enhancement pills etc )
asciilifeform: but doubly funny considering what became of i860
asciilifeform: subj was the itanic before the itanic.
shinohai: Don't like the current face? Just airbrush another on!
mircea_popescu: free face download-tones.
asciilifeform: lol rms interview on p. 94 (1989)
asciilifeform: d00d has talent for appearing in worst possible venue
mircea_popescu: he just goes where invited.
asciilifeform: y'know, it is possible to NOT go.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be racist ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was at one time invited to... microshit campus, to give a talk ( about what? never specified )
asciilifeform: stayed home.
mircea_popescu: it'd have been great for your personal brand!!
mircea_popescu: anyway, they never specify because they never give a shit. you're generally supposed to have a new book you're trying to promote or such.
asciilifeform: prostitution makes sense. sucking for free -- does not
mircea_popescu: prostitution wasn't on the table. more like marriage.\
mircea_popescu: you know all tjhe pretense of superiority of "honest" women always amused me. their pretense goes, that they could whore at any time, opt not to. in reality, whores could marry at any time, opt not to.
ben_vulpes: in other woman stories, the wasps chewed a hole through the ceiling into the nursery last night
mircea_popescu: left with baby ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought the notion was, 'yes you can marry but not marry-without-having-been-whore'
ben_vulpes: $girl handled whole thing from duct taping hole shut to bitching out landlord to scheduling exterminators and arranging for bill to arrive at landlord's place
mircea_popescu: apparently now can marry even witouit having been woman.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes why is this landlord's fault ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: now take a minute to clench your teeth and remember that ddt was once sold, fiddycents a pound, in corner store.
ben_vulpes: well, 'bitching out' perhaps too strong. "you're going to do something right RIGHT?" "uh well yes we should do something!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wouldn't put it in the house.
asciilifeform: wholly nonpoisonous to people
asciilifeform: unlike organophosphates
mircea_popescu: lol what ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: makes my lips numb, i don't really want it in the house.
mircea_popescu: ddt is rather toxic ; random other examples notwithstanding.
asciilifeform: i'd much rather eat it, than anything sold nao
asciilifeform: and ~unbeatable on target species.
mircea_popescu: this is alltogether dubious.
shinohai: Otherwise USG wouldn't be payong benefits to all these peeps that developed cancer from Agent Orange in Vietnam
asciilifeform: removal of ddt was one of the original triumphs of rampant envirowhinery.
ben_vulpes: much less the nursery lol, i am old and nigh to my grave and so spray liberally about myself. but the wee ones? i'm nottabout to pump the kid full of chemicals when i go so far the fuck out of my way to keep them out of his life in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform while that is true, it's also not a proof ddt is safe. it's not particularly safe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is mistake to compare to thin air and distilled water. compare to, e.g., mosquito's malaria, wasp stings.
mircea_popescu: wasp stings are actually a health benefit, within bounds.
mircea_popescu: compared to malaria even cesium comes out smelling pretty good
asciilifeform: fact : the replacements moar poisonous to mammal.
asciilifeform: any an' all of'em
ben_vulpes: subject of mosquitos, BingoBoingo have y'ever fucked with 'octenol'?
asciilifeform: just as the replacement freons. because it wasn't about toxicity.
mircea_popescu: depenmds what you replace it with. the only time i actually used something, i boiled tobacco.
mircea_popescu: not more toxic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: may as well compare to stamping bug with boot
mircea_popescu: his situation is of this nature!
asciilifeform: duct tape is not mega-obstacle for wasp.
asciilifeform: ( or anything else that happily eats through drywall )
mircea_popescu: if its a paper wasp colony, destroing the nest is usually enough.
asciilifeform: and what do you suppose ben_vulpes will destroy it with
mircea_popescu: maybe dump some copper sulphate or whatever.
asciilifeform: probably not flamethrower.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'tis only a stopgap while i deploy rentier's capital
mircea_popescu: alcohol.
mircea_popescu: i have instructional set of pics on trilema even
mircea_popescu: with the wasps laid out after
asciilifeform: had one of these here
asciilifeform: some beast... ate it
asciilifeform: raccoon, i think.
mircea_popescu: sounds about right for a raccoon actually.
asciilifeform: larvae are delish
mircea_popescu: anyway. straight alcohol, like the 99 proof stuff for making at home liqueur. fire hazard, but otherwise repellent and killer of bugs.
asciilifeform: lol i bet petrol worx just as well
mircea_popescu: nah, leaves grease spot, stinks worse.
asciilifeform: i'd still rather not pump it into the space b/w (hollow, ustard-built) walls.
mircea_popescu: this is gone ~same day.
mircea_popescu: my lifestyle solutions assume brick walls.
asciilifeform: i'm almost surprised they don't assume orbit
asciilifeform: 'wasps? no prob, open the airlock a bit'
mircea_popescu: !!up carlos222
deedbot: carlos222 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: how am i gonna get a wasp nest in orbit.
mircea_popescu: space wasps sound fucking scary ftr.
asciilifeform: separate q !
asciilifeform: re space wasps << mircea_popescu: ever see 'Les Maîtres du temps' (animated) ?
asciilifeform saw as a kid
asciilifeform: recommended
asciilifeform: complete with wasp
mircea_popescu: goes on list\
mircea_popescu: (o look, even with inept 90s "web drm" technologees!) http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/almostguy/images/vansex_color.gif << such an inconvenient fuck position. you really gotta be a virgin to think this is where it's at.
mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha o brother. "postmodern film/video theory & crit with an emphasis on phenomenology" ? reheheheally.
mircea_popescu: o look, he misspells piracetam
mod6: <+asciilifeform> removal of ddt was one of the original triumphs of rampant envirowhinery. << "it softens up the eagle eggs!!1"
mircea_popescu: and a little teratogenic.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem with ddt was bioaccumulation. it was the original spark for a lot of the current understanding of "why it is bad to eat agroindustrial shit". ddt is weakly toxic, but it and metabolites accumulate, get stored in fat, etcetera.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no. i recall the faggots, not yet VERY overweight, going to the things that meanwhile got captured by apple, much like coca-cola captured xmas << In elementry school historical context for the then present was established to be "on the verge of paradise, if only we stop littering"
mircea_popescu: the other half of it being that it is very toxic to fish ; back then people still had this strange notion that oceans will continue populated in the indefinite future.
mircea_popescu: this heresy has meanwhile been renounced in all but open admission.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i'd much rather eat it, than anything sold nao << Any more the only things labeled for indoor use are permethrins
mod6: i suppose the only non-toxic way to get rid of the nearby mosquitoes is to buy up all the surrounding properties and then take a flame thrower to the lawns.
mircea_popescu: actually, sterile males.
mircea_popescu: just like irl.
mod6: lol, werd.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced that cumulative ( and yes -- mega-seekrit, it is ) damage to nervous system from organophosphates, beats ddt
BingoBoingo: Mosquitoes are outdoor problem so you get to use BTi, which as complex protein is harmless unless immune system is bored and decides to bake an allergy
asciilifeform: or that it had anything to do with the scarcity of oceanic edibles ( we -- ate them )
mircea_popescu: well, we ate them, we fukushima'd them, for a while we also ddt'd them. we still plastic slush them, it's a large ocean.
asciilifeform: fukushima does 0 on the timescale a fish lives on.
mircea_popescu: and i'm not discussing other items. the thesis was this one, not "this one compared to arbitrary others"
mircea_popescu: this is not terribly true, sadly.
BingoBoingo: Scarcity of oceanic edibles is likely still more synthetic girly hormones getting pissed out unmetabolized and Seaciety suffering pantsuit
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but right of choice!
BingoBoingo: "Sea People + Semen = Seaciety" - Eric Cartman
trinque: they're all going in; what's this "the one thing they don't want you to know about dead fish"
trinque: can be pantsuit-piss, fukushima, corexit, "fertilizer", etc
trinque: one thing in common is that nobody involved had any idea what they were doing
mircea_popescu: in the case of ddt, they went to the trouble to stop.
asciilifeform: the stopping had far moar to do with ustard pro concerntrolls than toxicology.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced that cumulative ( and yes -- mega-seekrit, it is ) damage to nervous system from organophosphates, beats ddt << Where do you live that wealth of organophosphates are still available with indoor labeling? Around here store shelves have Malathion - outdoors, Carbaryl - outdoors, and Dichlorvos - unoccupied enclosed spaces and bagged bedding in war on bedbugs
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they are 'available' in whole usa, stuck to fruits, vegetables, sprayed into lawns etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik the thing was, much like "clean engine exhaust", entirely euro-nonsense.
asciilifeform: !~google silent spring
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Silent Spring - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring>; Rachel Carson, Silent Spring: <http://www.rachelcarson.org/SilentSpring.aspx>; Silent Spring : Rachel Carson, Linda Lear, Edward O. Wilson ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Spring-Rachel-Carson/dp/0618249060>
trinque: should stop the mass production of food instead : solved.
mircea_popescu: is the next proposition going to be "michael moore matters" ?
mircea_popescu: o look, wikipedia manages a very uscentric view of things and items lol. mk.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And exposed to oxygen and sunlight they survive how long? Proximity to factory would be bigger concern than proximity to deployment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usa was at its economic peak ; usa banned -- others copy.
trinque: the whole thing is based upon "mass produced idiot should be fed, gonna have to mass produce whatever 3 crops and feed them their derpmeal"
trinque: usg pours subsidies into it
mircea_popescu: not really my recollection.
mircea_popescu: ddt is entirely euro item. invented by swiss, used to clear europe of eg malaria. euros changed their mind in the 60s
mircea_popescu: ustards -- copied.
trinque: was being used in agriculture, which I'd wager is where most of the bulk of what ended up in the ocean originated
mircea_popescu: (and ftr, the usians had been whining about it just about since ww2. rando with a "book" on the topic is about as relevant as pink.)
mircea_popescu: trinque ironically, most of what ended up in the ocean was dumoped there by us army trying to replicate successful european usage.
mircea_popescu: arguably won a few battles in south pacific theatre.
mircea_popescu: but ftr -- first that banned it was hungary ; and generally the warsaw pact. not teh us.
asciilifeform: was used in su almost to last days
mircea_popescu: euro side of warsaw pact.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'll rack the "us--major player in ddt history" up there with "apple could buy russia" and all other self-referential wank.
mircea_popescu: "and this is how my grandfather built brighton"
BingoBoingo: US was definitely big user though, river valleys in Mid west all malarial north to Chicago until the chemming
BingoBoingo: Now we just have loser non-threatening beta mosquitos
mircea_popescu: cheap to make, pretty much everyone with a chem plant made some. which is how the soviets ended up using it.
mircea_popescu: (at the time, soviet industry more or less indian industry today)
trinque: guess I'm wrong about the proportions of ddt use re: ag. I have counted mass-production of The American Dream among the place's sins.
mircea_popescu: "I'm now an HTML coder at a startup in San Francisco. The &ldquo;World Wide Web&rdquo; has enabled me to crawl out of my debt-hole and bootstrap myself into the lower middle class. For the first time in my adult life, I can afford to <b>eat</b> in restaurants where I don't<b> work.</b" << if anyone's curious or keeping score, THIS is what impels all the dizzy dorks of today. their very own VHS tapes, if you will.
trinque: gotta have... corn! as far as the eye can see
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: written 1998 iirc
mircea_popescu: trinque the picture of sad yet resplendent idiocy over time comes into much better focus if one comes to term with the saddest fact of all : at every juncture and throughout, everyone really meant well.
trinque: just make the HTML coders all grow their own damn food, keep them occupied. not as "envirowhiner" but "hands full, own life in them"
mircea_popescu: twasn't, per se, "gotta have... corn! as far as the eye can see" in any way or in any sense other than the 1950s romanians being impressed with the ro commies "a LINE OF TRACTORS! 100 deep!!!"
trinque: ah it's your towards purpose thing, of course.
trinque: "yes corn, BUT THEN!"
mircea_popescu: it was a great accomplishment for a bunch of people who had a very direct experience of the hardness of soil, worked with hand-made tools pulled by sick horses and pregnant wives -- and i mean this literally.
mircea_popescu: the machines ? good god, they could forgive anything.
mircea_popescu: people today have very litle mental adherence to that ancient "nothing's heavier than earth" thing. kinda why making chicks mudfight is good for their brainbox.
mod6: heh "HTML coder"
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