ben_vulpes: wat-as-hell pitfalls of modern timeshare scams: https://sysdig.com/blog/container-isolation-gone-wrong/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know some dorks here built a shipping container church ?
mircea_popescu: and in random lulz : bus line in costa rica chose the facebook handle viajEROTICAbus
mircea_popescu: to them it makes sense.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/nicaragua-es-un-pais-pobre/ << Trilema - Nicaragua es un pais pobre.
BingoBoingo somehow picked up a case of acedia this week
BingoBoingo unsure if this is related to smoking cessation or alf's dosimeter hypothesis
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/8-year-old-dorm-building-explodes-on-us-campus/ << Qntra - 8 Year Old Dorm Building Explodes On US Campus
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2574.02, vol: 9247.86861870 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2500.002, vol: 4360.78148 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2507.2, vol: 18481.94127152 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2645.118, vol: 7894.08990000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2568.003, vol: 6178.03593635 | Volume-weighted last average: 2551.62836146
BingoBoingo: le sigh, still crashing
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/66C8EBEA4DE5ACA6EFC6B1B1BE33ECBCC9D4D64BD6D5F1CBEFC5818CE16AE914 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1015...6687 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/78EEABCADE0AAF24BF0A74FFC4499719B490E7A27952560F9860F82FFF341545 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1015...6687 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 33)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8F1E48FD50BC89EFA18F3A63DFD88482CB3B74362F99077EA25B771FD7F10AFF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1015...6687 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/66C8EBEA4DE5ACA6EFC6B1B1BE33ECBCC9D4D64BD6D5F1CBEFC5818CE16AE914 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1211...2273 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
mod6: mornin' tmsr~
mod6: lol "pierce labias"
asciilifeform: !$ssh 184.108.40.206 220.127.116.11 18.104.22.168
scriba: ssh banner of 22.214.171.124 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
scriba: ssh banner of 126.96.36.199 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
scriba: ssh banner of 188.8.131.52 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-1.99-Comware-5.20
asciilifeform: !#s comware
asciilifeform: aah the one where 'elite team of experts understands complex security issues'
mircea_popescu: lol dat qntra
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by now that verbiage is as good as a paper comedy gold certificate of deposit.
shinohai: Good morning mircea_popescu o/
shinohai is enjoying the Rhopalocera from http://trilema.com/2017/the-pulation-and-other-biodiversities/
mircea_popescu: hey hey
shinohai: Somehow I overlooked that gem, but better late than never!
mircea_popescu: lotta that on trilema. gets me all thew time too
shinohai: Do you ever see any of the Morpho menelaus around where you are in Costa Rica? Those are my favorite.
shinohai is amazed how these butterflies are like a coin flip. iridescent on one side, drab brown on reverse ....
mircea_popescu: ive not seen one but i think they do exist here
jurov: US has no new/refurbished nukes for 4 years already
asciilifeform: '...they gathered eight rods painstakingly crafted out of plutonium, and positioned them side-by-side on a table to photograph how nice they looked.' << lol! slotin spins in his lead coffin
trinque: ah don't worry; Rick Perry has it under control.
mircea_popescu: aha. was even lulzed vaguely in the logs last year iirc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lead free solder coffin you mean!
mircea_popescu: trinque to quote the rage of central america... "deeeeeespaaaacito... como lo hacen en puerto rico..."
trinque: guy's job as texas governor was primarily to do nothing, and make sure the other parts of government did as much nothing as possible, too.
trinque: in that, I can't dislike him *that* much
mircea_popescu: heh. the sad times when the best you can hope for is the idle class staying idle.
asciilifeform: re the nuke piece, for future reference :
asciilifeform: ( and for some inexplicable reason i had to strip the headers, for these to get eaten )
asciilifeform: and for some similarly inexplicable reason, neither derp had an extant pgp key of any serious age
mircea_popescu: no, that part is explicable
asciilifeform: 'Latest from our investigations White House spotlight: Tracking Donald Trump By The Center for Public Integrity February 13, 2017' << aaaah yes
mircea_popescu: for some reason they're obsessed with making the old man's life miserable by pestering him constantly.
mircea_popescu: it's a whole thing, "oh, PRESERVE HIS DRUNKEN TWEETS"
mircea_popescu: as if that's how it fucking works, and pantsuits get to decide what is joe's public and what is joe's private communication\
mircea_popescu: but if you look at it, whole movement is built on this thing. "hypocrisy" is how you say "we think we decide what other people say in public or in private" in pantsuit.
mircea_popescu: and it's all cancer outgrowth from republican spleen, as it happens. that idea that republican "ideal man" is same in public and in private.
mircea_popescu: except they';re trying tyo you know, make it opposable. to everyone but not themselves.
mircea_popescu: typical hurr durr we did it retarddit.
asciilifeform: hey if you lose the harem, and instead replace with fishwife, then from where is the 'harem vs forum' to come from.
asciilifeform: d00d is then 'on the clock' 24/7/365, or goes the theory.
mircea_popescu: same place it came this time : my fucking head
asciilifeform: yes but mircea_popescu came equipped with a head.
mircea_popescu: so why blame the confused slave playing the fishwife then
asciilifeform: because trump is zhirinovsky
asciilifeform: i.e. designated punching bag
mircea_popescu: no i meant in your example.
asciilifeform: ah, example was re how it is unclear to me that professional actors like 'potus' ~meaningfully have~ privatelives
asciilifeform: they are characters in 'realityshow'
asciilifeform: d00d prolly at this point has ss cameras filming him taking a shit, from 4 angles.
mircea_popescu: only becausde he lets them.
asciilifeform: what sort of 'private life' has someone who shits in supervga.
asciilifeform: iirc he tried 'not let', it didn't quite work
mircea_popescu: i didn't let my security ppl follow me around all the time.
mircea_popescu: and this was at a time people were actively trying to shoot me.
asciilifeform: yes but mircea_popescu's security folx for ~for mircea_popescu~ and not for 'our demoocracy'
mircea_popescu: now that is very true.
mircea_popescu: still, you know. buy a hammer tear down the toilet cameras, anyone who tries to fix is fired.
mircea_popescu: and also, this fucking car goes where i say it goes, not where you say it goes. and if you don't like it you're getting shot.
asciilifeform: iirc he was last seen trying to hammer the cameras in 'security council'
asciilifeform: which ended with ~his~ appointees there being sacked
asciilifeform: while lizards -- retained
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd likely end with a gorbachev-like 'mr. president is not feeling well today, or this week, needs his rest' while pantsuits take the wheel.
phf: i saw a lot of covfefe signs all over seattle, next to "#blm" etc.
asciilifeform: ( but i dun work in this circus, so nfi )
asciilifeform: phf: uni of md. vicinity, and much of dc, are covered in 'trump as ru stooge' stickers, complete with (yes) hammers an' sickles
phf: the meme is stronger than the thought
mircea_popescu: the bad meme pushes the good thought out of the skull.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's a whole thing, "oh, PRESERVE HIS DRUNKEN TWEETS" << Herr Tritler doesn't drink
mircea_popescu: "drunken tweet" as a single item :p
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: being old is sorta like drinking
BingoBoingo: Well, "dry drunk"
phf: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files/+bug/1701068 << "In Ubuntu 17.04 or newer, there is a script at /etc/update-motd.d/50-motd-news that reads https://motd.ubuntu.com/ and displays that text with the rest of the MOTD. Currently, https://motd.ubuntu.com shows a news item about HBO's Silicon Valley which has a reference to Ubuntu."
mircea_popescu: "but it works!"
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8142 << "Her attorney informed us this morning, that although the deed is being assigned to my sister, my brother and I, that if my mother requires nursing home care through Medicare at any point over the next five years, that the Feds will take the house to pay the bills. "
mircea_popescu: last generation to own anything is dying now.
asciilifeform: mostly dead
mircea_popescu: welcome to the undeclared soviet republic.
asciilifeform: i prefer the original one, where, e.g., asciilifeform's folx had 4 metre ceilings and paid 0 rent and 0 mortgage
mircea_popescu: hey, wehn was the sequel an improvement
mircea_popescu: it's called sequelae for this reason
asciilifeform: re the confiscation : welfaristans fear sham-indigence like elephant fears mice
asciilifeform: it's the sure siphon by which it can be drained dry.
mircea_popescu: it's how the 4m ceilings one died.
mircea_popescu: this is the perpetual bait and switch : "fuck you, be useful" creates a lot of people with repressed needs. it APPEARS that "to everyone according to his needs" will then turn a profit. get themn to vote you, pay their tiny needs, make bank.
mircea_popescu: then the needs baloon.
mircea_popescu: and all that's lefty in place is a stable of needy people with no utility.
asciilifeform: if ~anyone actually wanted usd enough to pay bitcoin for it en masse, even nickel-on-the-dollar's worth, usg would evaporate in a week.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. if 'lafond's mother' could cash in, even at a loss, the house into non-usgolade )
asciilifeform: in ye olde su this was accomplished somewhat differently -- by physically cutting apart the, e.g., laboratory where you worked, and selling to faceless bagmen who carried it abroad
mircea_popescu: which is why that's the idea : take all the credit card debt you canm, buy btc, mexico.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik this is only dampered today by the lack of folx willing to part with btc
mircea_popescu: even unemployed mouthbreather can get 10-20k. in a decade that'll be enough.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 17:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626921 << yes. there's absolutely no argument that bitcoin dying on the enemy's terms would be an unmitigated catastrophe. chernobyl pales in comparison, it'd be on the level of "wheel is useless anyway" wisdom of dropped-on-head amerindians, or "oh pretty, spinning wheels" greek steam engine. utterly catastrophic. which is why eg http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/#selection
mircea_popescu: so if that happens you're where you were anyway.
asciilifeform: but enemy, hypothetically, ahead '+9000%', having successfully swallowed everything folx moved into btc
mircea_popescu: i don;'t follow ?
asciilifeform: well in a maximally ghastly 'death of btc' scenario, usg slowly alchemates/inflates it
asciilifeform: rather than 'whole thing evaporates overnight'
mircea_popescu: the indigent will still be indigent, and "medicare"
asciilifeform: aha, and the show, refueled, gets to go on another century
asciilifeform: this'd be rather like germany taking stalingrad and the petrowells
mircea_popescu: it'd have done ~nothing.
asciilifeform: why so sure..?
mircea_popescu: because i did the maths.
mircea_popescu: petrowells schmetrowells. germany had lost all its human resources throughtout a century and a half of inept management to the us.
asciilifeform: could've regained, as slaves.
mircea_popescu: all the aryans making up 55% of the us 120mn weren't gonna come back to berlin and man stalingrad wells.
mircea_popescu: instead they were gonna man docks in pittsburgh
asciilifeform: hard to picture them not coming back to a victorious germany
mircea_popescu: germany's problem was sparta's problem -- all the raw materials in the world can't make another spartan.
asciilifeform: where bach instead of josephsmith
mircea_popescu: only spartan women can, and they're hard to lay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then you agree stalingrad was irrelevant militarily
asciilifeform: i dun follow
mircea_popescu: the question is the 60 or so mn germans thinking themselves americans
mircea_popescu: not some shithole in russia
mircea_popescu: hitler fell for the eternal patnsuit scam, invaded russia to sell to some white old women in europe the notion that "bolshevik threat". bad trade
asciilifeform: serious problem in the original germany : scarce and cruddy fuel , from fischer-tropsch ( which they only even had to begin with because of those 60.. )
mircea_popescu: never take the old woman side, she's a born loser.
asciilifeform: this yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ~only problem of reich was irreplaceable people.
mircea_popescu: which is why break of pact was a stupid move. trade the expensive for the cheap.
mircea_popescu: stalin would have been fucking thrilled to sell hitler that same oil he never got. and for almost nothing : just instruction manuals on how to kill his slaves to build industrial empire.
mircea_popescu: 1mn german trainers whipping russian mujicks into the ground would have produced 10x more for the reich than 5mn soldiers did.
mircea_popescu: !!up mats
deedbot: mats voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up maxidev
deedbot: maxidev voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'stalingrad' hypothesis was not re 'germany wins' but rather 'prolongs the agony' -- could have easily finished wrecking the not-yet-wrecked half of europe, say.
mircea_popescu: problem is -- people don't know how to commit. (naked, bitch! so what if people can see your perecious cuntlet ?). and when.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform allies did that.
mircea_popescu: germany -- not a windowpane. uk+us - famine in pairs.
asciilifeform: well picture another 5 yrs of it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is what it got anyway innit.
asciilifeform: or 10.
asciilifeform: at least paris didn't get, e.g., nuked.
asciilifeform: which is how that opera may well would have ended.
mircea_popescu: or do i need to dig up the threads about us "regulator" "fining" japanese co ? or the one where other japanewse co built shit and usg dun feel obliged to pay ? or ?
mircea_popescu: oh, "at least" huh ? i thought this at least didn't figure in your books in earlier discussion re correct move.
mircea_popescu: "at least" is the pregnant woman solace.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> but enemy, hypothetically, ahead '+9000%', having successfully swallowed everything folx moved into btc
mircea_popescu: but hey -- at least they got some tequilla!
mircea_popescu: how come you didn't have that there -- have it here ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> then the needs baloon. << Healthcare!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll admit to a complete puzzlement re which 'it' i 'have there' 'and not here'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when we were discussing how the loser should treat the usg, ie, borrow and steal, move it to btc, and run away, you pointed out that "if btc fails, then the evil empire of usg is that much better positioned", but did not say "at least the folks trying enjoyed the try"
mats: hello friendos
asciilifeform: ohai mats
mircea_popescu: wehn we are discussing geopolitics, ie, counbtries not people, ie your lazy ass bias not kicking into max gear and =silencing your brain, you do not say, or evenm see "evil usg empire better position"
mircea_popescu: you instead say "oh, at least they" line.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'better position' i admit is a poor phrasing. moar of 'give arsonist 10x the petrol'
mircea_popescu: same in both cases.
mircea_popescu: and the "at least" is same in both cases.
mircea_popescu: and you see one in one case and the other in the other case.
asciilifeform: let's briefly revisit ye olde su, which afaik was largely nailed by folx ~not producing~, rather than spiriting $goodies away overseas
mircea_popescu: well, folks deciding to need more and make less every day
asciilifeform: now say they instead had produced, and thinking it were theirs ('charging btc battery'). and then -- inca gets it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bad plan to produce while there's inca around. revisit the ancients -- it is shameful for man to work plow like beast of burdewn wehn he could be soldier and plujnder.
mircea_popescu: this view is correct -- while usg stands, it is shameful for man to work. man must steal.
asciilifeform: same failure mode tho -- you go around pirateing, yarrrr, and storing treasure in btc, but in the end it turns out you were privateering for inca
mircea_popescu: at least you raped instead of "performance review"
mircea_popescu: no. the time to work, is when there's no sovereign in sight but tmsr
asciilifeform: but it is a sad fate to rape an' pillage only to feed a platoon of performancereview.
mircea_popescu: when there's other pretenders, the ~only work to do is take their shit.
mircea_popescu: which is why maersk is paying republicgeld now.
mircea_popescu: and the us congress will. and everyone else.
asciilifeform: hey if they get tired, could always consider not runningmoarwinblowz
mircea_popescu: no. that's the point -- they could not.
mircea_popescu: might as well ask byzantine army that if they get tired might stop believing jesus is in the sky.
asciilifeform: this is a point.
mircea_popescu: they'll lose their worthless body here to accumulate great fortunes in the myfolder future!
mircea_popescu: or w/e the shit's called, MyDocuments
asciilifeform: upstack : i suspect that the situation re 'borrow mortgage and run away into btc' is entirely similar to old su 'run into dollars'. many (most?) would have nodded to 'sell motherland', 'but nobody's buying her!'
mircea_popescu: any ustard can get 10-20k cash nqa.
mircea_popescu: they spend 10x that on "tuition"
asciilifeform: yes but who wants to trade bitcoin for these
mircea_popescu: there's markets.
asciilifeform: afaik markets want actual-usd, not chargebacktronium
asciilifeform: per mircea_popescu's 'tide' article.
mircea_popescu: obviously you pay in cahs.
asciilifeform: for some values of 'you', lol
asciilifeform: for other values, it is like buying strela.
mircea_popescu: if you can't buy btc for cash you aren't a person. that is the minimum bar of personhood.
asciilifeform: 'friendly d00d' will immediately materialize to 'sell you btc for bag of benjies' and free room-an'-board-for-20y next
asciilifeform: asciilifeform apparently is not at all a person.
mircea_popescu: work on it!
asciilifeform: can table, chair, 'work on it' also and become person ?
asciilifeform: where do they start ?
mircea_popescu: these "Dangers" are very much hallucinated. chick i bought car from (for cash!) was totally petrified of you know, having money.
mircea_popescu: teh slave habits are strong in the herd.
asciilifeform: trip over policeman in usaschwitz --> lose the cash
asciilifeform: as is documented to death
asciilifeform: ( soon to be : not merely the cash in your pocket, but whatever is in your car/house/bank )
mircea_popescu: so ? it was freeby anyway.
mircea_popescu: pretty srue they've been stealing cars for >decade byu now.
asciilifeform: cars yes. 100%confiscation a la stalin -- not yet, generally
asciilifeform: in other noose ! nao we have comba's algo multiplier as basecase in karatsuba (currently threshold 8 words) , and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1673165 becomes now 7.5sec
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 16:44 asciilifeform: ( 8192bit exponentiation: ~10min with egyptological mul; 20.5s was with first-grade mul; 17.7 with karatsuba posted today )
asciilifeform: this is still nogood.jpg
asciilifeform: ( for comparison, python (internally gmp) takes 0.016s )
asciilifeform: computation of 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ** 0x80
asciilifeform: ( and yes, it cheats, not the least of it being that it STOPS after 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, rather than doing the other 8192-N bits )
mircea_popescu: so give it 0x1(0)FF
asciilifeform: nao where do i get a 470x speedup.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: give which
mircea_popescu: 0x1(0)FF* 0x80
asciilifeform: i dunno how to read that
mircea_popescu: one followed by 8184 0s followed by 8 1s
asciilifeform: y'mean, say, 2**8192 - 1 ah
asciilifeform: it doesn't do same thing tho
asciilifeform: will end up a 100MB turd
mircea_popescu: i'd have thought it's within rounding error.
asciilifeform: recall, we're FFA, and they're non-F
mircea_popescu: oh this is exp not mult ?
asciilifeform: but ~uses~ mult, naturally, inside
asciilifeform: ( see src )
mircea_popescu: 0x1(0)FF** 0x1
asciilifeform: happens in O(1)
asciilifeform: i suppose i'm stuck actually measuring time of N (large N) mult ops, rather than exp
asciilifeform: (measuring interval of ~one~ is impractical)
asciilifeform: 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ** 0x80 was picked because the answer actually occupies 8192 bits.
mircea_popescu: can it do negative powers ?
mircea_popescu: not yours, py gmp i mean
asciilifeform: it - sure
mircea_popescu: so do ^ -1
mircea_popescu: 8192 bits, will have to be all touched.
asciilifeform: that's an op that has ~0 relation to anything we do
asciilifeform: (it produces some float liquishit )
mircea_popescu: should give an indication of time, i guess
mircea_popescu: very looosely comparable, granted
asciilifeform: mno, it translates to a 1 / x
mircea_popescu: meh, ^ 1/2 i meant :D
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-universal-plan-for-wealth/ << Trilema - The Universal Plan for Wealth
mircea_popescu: ^ RFC svp.
mircea_popescu intends to make this into a noob focus.
asciilifeform: soooooo i measured time of 10,000 8192b mults,
asciilifeform: us: 1.49s
asciilifeform: them: 0.345s
asciilifeform: which is quite a way less ghastly
asciilifeform: and when test is 0x2fffffff.....ff * 0x4ffffffff....fff (8192 b.) so as no 0s to 'cheat' with, then they : 0.7s
mircea_popescu: this is actually nb.
asciilifeform: so we run at almost 50% speed of gmp, for straight mult, which is notbad.jpg, and can be improved ( less copying of intermediates )
mircea_popescu: basically the other side of the "constant time" coin is that... YOU GET CONSTANTTIME, BITCH.
mircea_popescu: what DID you think "fork on secret bits" does.,
asciilifeform: plus dun forget WE ALSO CHECK BOUNDS ON ALL ARRAY ACCESSES
asciilifeform: which costs quite >0
mircea_popescu: yet once more poverty is the edge distinguishing man from nigger.
asciilifeform: how here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is also the problem of shitty profiling, times may not be accurate as measured.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because they can't afford to not fork-on-secrets
mircea_popescu: "no time!"
mircea_popescu: "computers cost money"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no matter how you cut it, however, i dun have a battery that will power a keygeneratory-capable comp for a month. and neither does anybody else.
asciilifeform: ( much less a year )
mircea_popescu: and i don't have a slave that eats jam and shits whole prunes. NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE is the controlling bit.
mircea_popescu: some things, could be had but aren't ; other things can't be had so we don't have them. what can you do.
asciilifeform: but i'll observe that this plane still weights a little much to get off ground
mircea_popescu: i don't see the problem. i got power.
mircea_popescu: who says must be done on battery.
asciilifeform: let's say yer willing to live with mains ( or petrol, lol ) power.
asciilifeform: but can live with month+ gen time ?
asciilifeform: PER MODULUS
mircea_popescu: i lived 5 years on this key.
asciilifeform: yes but you don't purersa with it.
mircea_popescu: that i don't.
asciilifeform: because there, not only gen problem, but each shot.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense (not yet ready to shave the combined rsa-symkey model) not ready to fly.
mircea_popescu: at least this has a valid reason to symkey.
asciilifeform: is whole point of the ffa thing
mircea_popescu: and we have decent hash functions now.
asciilifeform: which also takes eons
asciilifeform: ( i seem to recall 10minute hash times )
mircea_popescu: depends on size. we never had a decent profiling of impls iirc.
asciilifeform: will soon enough, when i polish off ffa
mircea_popescu: was next step but sina moved to gossipding
asciilifeform: but will observe that we can get something like a 8x speedup 'for phree' if use MUL instr. inlike instead of the http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/RSu5T/?raw=true horror show.
asciilifeform: ( yes that's what you end up doing JUST TO GET THE UPPER 64bits of result !! )
asciilifeform: which is PRODUCED ANYWAY EVERY TIME YOU MUL srsly
asciilifeform froths in fury every time he things about this
mircea_popescu: inline you mean ? so what's the problem with that ?
asciilifeform: that it'll blow away the 'this is exactly same on all bitnesses' algebra
mircea_popescu: tsk ya that
asciilifeform: now we'd have a turd of #ifdef and asmolade
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-universal-plan-for-wealth/#comment-122297
asciilifeform: it is mind-boggling, ~all major cpu have had 2word-outputting MUL instr for, what, 30 years. and NO compiler actually gives you, by default, the top half of it !!
asciilifeform: Because It Would Be Wrong (tm)(r)(uncle al)
asciilifeform: i wouldn't even be surprised if the explanation for this turns out, in the end, to be an usgological one
asciilifeform: ( just as in the old smoking gun, where it came out that nsa delayed the introduction of POPCOUNT instr )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform answered.
mircea_popescu: 122k comments. that's... kind of a lot.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2563.99, vol: 8385.18521930 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2500.0, vol: 3446.03227 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2518.3, vol: 13925.79122197 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2670.862942, vol: 7447.70230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2559.006, vol: 5958.5577679 | Volume-weighted last average: 2561.67863518
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> any ustard can get 10-20k cash nqa. << Nah, they might... if they are lucky may touch ~1.5-3 kilodollars cash
mircea_popescu: provided they spend a mon-fri interval applying for all the possible credit cards they can find, and then spending saturday hitting all atms ?
mircea_popescu: it tightened that badly already, all usoviet is good for is ~decent restaurant meal ?
asciilifeform: yes and no
mircea_popescu: for the record, i will state that the average chinese dood will be supported by the chinese govt with 1-300k usd to open shop abroad.
mircea_popescu: which is why all the africa/south america/etc supermarkets etc.
asciilifeform: most you can get ~in benjies~ (i.e. atm) is typically 1k
asciilifeform: per card
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a day, neh ?
mircea_popescu: so hit it 29th and 2nd
asciilifeform: or rather, till pid
mircea_popescu: eh wtf. they distinguish atm from pos ?
asciilifeform: 10x higher interest, even
mircea_popescu: and yet "everyone" acts as if they have nfi what mp is saying re usd being ~worthless ?
asciilifeform: i'd bet most inmates have some idea.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the amounts are not relevant. the plan is "get all you can and get out".
mircea_popescu: if all you can get is a nail, get the nail.
asciilifeform: and after traded the nail for food in liquishitistan, then what
asciilifeform: or is it 'female' to ask
mircea_popescu: then life.
asciilifeform: the nicaragua shitlife eh
asciilifeform: i'll take my wagner ty
mircea_popescu: it is generally the argument of the pig in farm that the forest has wolves, and no clearly market slop through.
mircea_popescu: this is broadly correct -- forest will not support same headcount of pig per acre as pig farm does.
mircea_popescu: but then again -- it was "plan for wealth" not "plan for survival". there's no such thing as a wealthy farmed pig. definitionally -- wealth of farm belongs with farmer.
mircea_popescu: in the end the circling will always come to the same square : do you wish to live long, or do you wish to live well.
asciilifeform: could play same game without leaving home: connect rng to pistol, if fails to produce shitoshi privkey - bang
mircea_popescu: it's not the same game except in the estimation of those who'd play it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: short+well is what we get here already...
mircea_popescu: it is ?
asciilifeform: aha, prolly not a decade left
mircea_popescu: then i suppose there's no problem to solve.
mircea_popescu wouldn't have intuited alf thinks he lives well, prior to this moment.
asciilifeform: hey i 'sleep ad lib'
trinque: !#s from:asciilifeform hovel
a111: 13 results for "from:asciilifeform hovel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20hovel
asciilifeform: trinque: compared with life of fugitives with 0 social skill, my hovel wins +90000%
mircea_popescu: it's good and bad, depending on context!
mircea_popescu: the life of the mind, and its advantages.
mircea_popescu: as a protection against change, it is a great life. except of course, as a justification of inertia, it is a terrible life. pick and choose, if it's why not move then it's because life is good, if it's why don't you have your boatirigible it's because life's bad.
mircea_popescu: check it out, alf's dreidl.
asciilifeform: i'm a hill climber, wat
mircea_popescu: whassat ?
asciilifeform: no move unless >current
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform honestly i thjink you will be recalled as a sort of st peter-thomas in the eventual church.
mircea_popescu: not a bad role, either.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it tightened that badly already, all usoviet is good for is ~decent restaurant meal ? << That's based off of the free student loan money conduit. Eat 20 kilodollars in debt, get less than 10 % in paperable for "living expenses"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo chick i aspirated on the tail end of this owes like 1/4mn to usg according to usg, and wasted about 60k on pot and stupid shit. "living expenses" ie "i was by myself and they were giving me money. what."
mircea_popescu: now, evidently they have time-locks and other safeguards on the whole bullshit. but as a factual matter average redditard will have wasted no less than 20k in cash by the time he's "established" in "the community".
BingoBoingo similarly drank ~40-80 kilodollars of USG/Bank money between 2004-2012
mircea_popescu: this with no prejudice to your figure re "what can actually be had in hand"
BingoBoingo: Mostly between 06-08 After 08 rate of allowed cash access constricted
mircea_popescu: i c.
mircea_popescu: i'm working on old almanacs here, as i don't tend to seriously talk to 19yos.
BingoBoingo: i.e dollars that don't go straight to college bezzel office
BingoBoingo: Well, the shithole rarely starts smelling better on its own
BingoBoingo: Putrefecation sustains itself, always getting worse.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676497 << definitely working with old almanacs nao. today 20k dun even buy a toyota.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 22:04 mircea_popescu: now, evidently they have time-locks and other safeguards on the whole bullshit. but as a factual matter average redditard will have wasted no less than 20k in cash by the time he's "established" in "the community".
asciilifeform: a TWO-DOOR toyota.
mircea_popescu: a lawnmower!
asciilifeform: just about
asciilifeform: buys one of those ridable tractor things.
mircea_popescu: 8 or so btc.
asciilifeform: ... or 80% of an old orloltron
mircea_popescu: very much more than enough for average derp.
asciilifeform: enough to what ? pay for christian burial ?
mircea_popescu: future holds room for maye 10-20mn humans. ~1btc is the table stakes of living on earth
asciilifeform: then even old asciilifeform is covered
asciilifeform: but somehow skeptical that 1btc.
mircea_popescu: "even". you're way ahead of teh curv.e
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform numbers dun lie.
trinque: I bought a beast of a truck for 16k
asciilifeform: trinque: lemme guess, american
mircea_popescu: trinque we're in the other side of the life sucks/doesn't continuum atm.
trinque: you guess wrong; toyota
asciilifeform: rly, new toyota ??
trinque: ah ah, pardon me
trinque: who said new!
asciilifeform: aaaaah lol!!
mircea_popescu: it only counts if it's pink!
trinque: wtf is this lol; do you know how long those last?
asciilifeform: 'old toyota' can be 100 usd even.
asciilifeform: so i thought it was quite obvious that meant 'new'.
mircea_popescu: in a word... no.
trinque: fucking yawn; the things run til 300k miles
mircea_popescu: having never bought a car etc.
trinque: and got it at ~100k
asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever sat in a car with <100k
asciilifeform: in usa that is
trinque: thing didn't have the idiot iPads in the dash so no one wanted it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought buying new is a scam anyway. why would it be obvious you meant that ?
asciilifeform: trinque: quite a stuggle to buy one ~without~ the crud , lately
mircea_popescu: 2005 bmw ftw.
mircea_popescu: it got all the electronics of old motorola phone.
asciilifeform: i'm definitely getting one when my 'acura' finally falls apart
asciilifeform: ( same era )
mircea_popescu: "see that freightliner baby ? well... your car and that engine, ~same hp. use it well."
asciilifeform: orlol's tub somehow got by with... 35hp
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> a TWO-DOOR toyota. << $4000 buys a sports car convertible
BingoBoingo: <trinque> who said new! << 4 srs, mircea_popescu just needs decades of car buying experience to go used because his tastes run German and not lawnmower
mircea_popescu: hey, i also bought a blender. it was... swiss.
mircea_popescu: i betcha it outtorques your shmoyota or w/e
BingoBoingo: But how long does it take to mow lawn with blender??
mircea_popescu: i dunno but it made an acre's worth of gravel one weekend...
BingoBoingo: Gotta figure in forward speed AND deck size
BingoBoingo: But sounds like quite the blender
BingoBoingo: May beat mower :(
trinque: so here's a tip re: "omg cannot pull cash out of credit cards: 2017 panoptical broomstick hell"
trinque: pay the fucking feds with the card; buy bitcoin with the cash
ben_vulpes: on the topic of "us courts are a thin veil over the criminal enterprise": https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/appeals-court-public-defender-lacks-standing-in-dispute-over-court-software/
asciilifeform: '...the public defender’s office has filed approximately 2,000 motions informing the court that, due to its reportedly imperfect software, many of its clients have been forced to serve unnecessary jail time, be improperly arrested, or even wrongly registered as sex offenders.' << lol!!
asciilifeform: brings to mind this old '40s sf tale, where 2 d00dz are exonerated of murder after doing 20y on the toughest prison planets, with giant wasps & similar joys, and so each gets a 'murder pass' to actually do the thing he already sat for
asciilifeform: and has to ponder, 'who should it be'
mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy shit.
mircea_popescu: let's worry if enough black chicks code. that's the issue.
asciilifeform: or whatwasit.
mircea_popescu: 2k black dudes registered as sex offenders for buying a can of canada dry are a-ok
mircea_popescu: and, ironically, they're registered by the very shit black chix coded.
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: shoulda spanked the bitchezs when they were 16, not wait for the fucking "criminology" degree.
mircea_popescu: "if enough black chicks coded we wouldn't have to think about when was the last time anyone wrote any usefu lcode"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, for the intrepid: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mIuk9/?raw=true << combatron!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-21 00:47 asciilifeform: in other sads, it turns out that paul g. comba ( of comba's multiplication algo ) died in april.
asciilifeform: pretty 'martian' algo for the usual O(N^2) mults, but notably it doesn't need a full Z's worth of temporary row space, but only 3 words' , ~regardless of Z width~ !
asciilifeform: ( homework to reader: prove that this works.. )
shinohai: btw mod6 .... I failed with the Ada/Gentoo thing the other night. Back to reading I suppose.
asciilifeform: shinohai: say moar? failed how?
shinohai: I can't get a workable env going .... using gcc version 4.9.4 (Gentoo 4.9.4 p1.0, pie-0.6.4)
asciilifeform: again say moar
asciilifeform: what dun work
asciilifeform: where - barfed ?
shinohai looks at notes
shinohai: First of all, is this what I should be following? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Ada
asciilifeform: emerge dev-lang/gnat-gpl
asciilifeform: alternatively install adacore's thing
asciilifeform: ( either variant involves, sadly, a binary bootstrapper, as gnat is written in ada... )
shinohai: Ah there is my issue apparently ... I needed to prefix USE=bootstrap
shinohai: le sigh
asciilifeform: ftr 'p' stands at ~2500 ln. (incl. comments) presently. will need to lose some weight...
ben_vulpes: long time no see, ag3nt_zer0
ag3nt_zer0: hey there!
ag3nt_zer0: no kidding man
trinque: this guy right here, shit you not, tells deedbot:
ag3nt_zer0: I am always peeking from time to time for reassurance hehe
trinque: curl $url | gpg --decrypt
trinque thoroughly entertained
ag3nt_zer0: awww man
trinque: you don't get off so easy!
trinque: lol, anyhow wb
ben_vulpes: ho ho ho
ben_vulpes: allow me to reassure you, ag3nt_zer0, you *can* still curl2sudo!
trinque: I resisted the urge to troll him that hard
trinque: "oh gotta update your gpg, here"
trinque should be sainted
ag3nt_zer0: hehe yes been very patient
ben_vulpes: what are the lolz of the day ag3nt_zer0
ag3nt_zer0: haha well alot moved around since last I was here... we had that whole brexit trump pepe chaos magik thing
ag3nt_zer0: I went on an pretty long trip - 8 mos mexico, colombia, peru, thailand
trinque: how do you find Thailand?
ag3nt_zer0: just got back a while ago and working my ass off to buy btc before it fulfills what appears to be its destiny of 1 trillion dollars/coin
ag3nt_zer0: trinque I loved thailand
trinque: the place has been on my radar for a while; I've got a meatwot guy there
ag3nt_zer0: i should say it was my first "world trip" so I dont have much to compare it to and was really just enjoying the otherness of it all... the food was fucking incredible and the people were mostly very nice... said hi to me as I walked past them on the street which I guess qualifies as "very nice" in pharmaceutically feminist america
ag3nt_zer0: I really enjoyed the temples everywhere
ag3nt_zer0: Chiang Rai is very nice superior to Chiang Mai imo, smaller, cleaner, up in the hills a bit more
asciilifeform: what's a pharmaceutically feminist ?
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: what'd a month cost you there?
ag3nt_zer0: what i mean is that people are on drugs and feminism
ben_vulpes: pantsuit parties: http://www.theamericanmirror.com/emails-cheryl-mills-hillary-aides-thought-pantsuit-party-woo-young-voters/
ag3nt_zer0: could have a small home outside of town for 0.116376 btc/mo
ag3nt_zer0: then food... maybe 3-4 usd/day
ag3nt_zer0: less if you cook
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: is that rice or roquefort ?
ag3nt_zer0: that would be rice
asciilifeform: thought so
ag3nt_zer0: and noodles and veggies and some meatz
asciilifeform: it's about ~same 3-4 here in bad old usa too
asciilifeform was once a penniless student, like many folx
ag3nt_zer0: dropped my little aged porn star potbelly and all fat over there though with no bread and cheese
asciilifeform: thailand is the land of the 200% car tax iirc.
asciilifeform: so i take it 0 fat folx.
ag3nt_zer0: yeah I didnt see any
mod6: <+shinohai> Ah there is my issue apparently ... I needed to prefix USE=bootstrap << thanks for reporting and working through your probs on this in here -- this will probably help someone in the future.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-13 22:37 asciilifeform: end result is to be a vaguely msdos-like thing that understands how to configure x64 page table, put/get blocks of disk, and speak over rs232 port. and on top of this, a self-building gnat.
asciilifeform: mod6: because the unix situation ain't getting any better.
asciilifeform: it will only get -- worse.
mod6: yeah, it's liquishit. for sure.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 00:42 ben_vulpes: oh christ xorg needs gcc5 now?
mod6: hmm, i dunno about that, following danielpbarron's instructions i was able to get X built with gcc4. but yah, it's all shit.
trinque: hey, gnat just hauled in *6*
asciilifeform: mod6: betcha you can't build an x that will draw on any card you can buy in a store nao, without 5+
asciilifeform: or worse.
asciilifeform: trinque: lol which gnat
trinque: the latest and therefore best!!11!!!11
trinque: was actually going to ask if you had a vintage
asciilifeform: i do, which one would you like
trinque: whichever one doesn't scorn gcc4 I suppose.
asciilifeform: on the box i'm sitting at nao, i have adacore's 4.9.4
trinque: dev-lang/gnat-gpl-2017 << this demanded gcc6
asciilifeform: 4.9.4 iirc is still on their www
trinque: I'll try that one instead
asciilifeform: incidentally for all i know gcc5ism has not even touched gnat/ada
asciilifeform: to date it's been 100% frontend rot afail
asciilifeform: but i cannot guarantee this.
asciilifeform: ( ada does not suffer from the c/cpp idiots' '95% of everything we do is not nailed down in the standard' horror )
asciilifeform: ditto fortran
asciilifeform: ( incidentally i considered fortran for tmsr crypto )
asciilifeform: we may well eventually end up with fortran ( it is by far easier to write a fortran compiler from 0 than an adatron )
asciilifeform: fwiw SANELY written algos translate quite well between algols.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. 0 pointerolade )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i lolled at the pantsuits using the fucking word, all casual like.
mircea_popescu: you know, like fat girl everyone calls piggy trying to use "piggy" in conversation.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> so i take it 0 fat folx. << 0 tall chicks with nice udders, either.
asciilifeform: afaik they dun make those east of urals
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2E42F2EB9F4AF41CAD631A416DA71DFA634867421238BFA9F52B05A773CA94CC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1655...7227 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps87-230-7-215.dedicated.hosteurope.de. DE NW)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2E42F2EB9F4AF41CAD631A416DA71DFA634867421238BFA9F52B05A773CA94CC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1480...1079 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps87-230-7-215.dedicated.hosteurope.de. DE NW)
mircea_popescu: prolly not.
asciilifeform: ^ http://www.2f-spiele.de >>>>> 'Ich hoffe, dass auf dieser Seite alle Fragen zum Thema 2F-Spiele beantwortet werden können.'
mircea_popescu: wtf is the point even sticking it into her if she can't show 2-3lbs of tit upfront.
mircea_popescu tried recently, literally felt like was fucking a little boy. ew.
asciilifeform: http://www.2f-spiele.de/spiele/spiele_akt_deut.htm << anybody ever heard of these..?
asciilifeform: board gamez apparently. old-school.
asciilifeform: mod6: further re '64-bit dos' : i increasingly also like the idea of os that has 0 kernel activity other than when invoked. and in general, 0 background activity other than user-specified; and no more threads than cpus.
asciilifeform: i.e. honesty.
asciilifeform: ( moar-threads-than-cpus is fundamentally a lie to the operator )
asciilifeform: it'll be great to be able to deterministically measure execution times again, for instance.
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason to EVEN ENABLE INTERRUPTS on such a box
asciilifeform: polling or fuckoff
asciilifeform: or at least confine'em to 1 core.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ( moar-threads-than-cpus is fundamentally a lie to the operator ) << 'i can't believe it's not cpu' aha.
mircea_popescu: interrupts were a bad idea from the get-go.
mircea_popescu: then "masking" and then of course "non maskable" and etc. when that happens you know you fucked up the design
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: betcha you can't build an x that will draw on any card you can buy in a store nao, without 5+ << yeah, any proper graphics card. std intel card tho.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i agree though. having all kinds of background things running and the kernel off doing who knows what is unwanted.
asciilifeform: mod6: the open-specced intel gpu -- evaporated
asciilifeform: i hate to be the bringer of badnoose... but it is so.
mod6: i dunno, im pretty sure i used gcc4 to build x on this box. o.O
asciilifeform: what is 'this box' ?
mod6: e560 thinkpad
asciilifeform: the badnoose is re certain 2017 intels. starting with iirc kaby
asciilifeform: nomoar open gpu
mod6: <+trinque> I'll try that one instead << let me know if it "works" for ya
sina: hiya tmsr
mircea_popescu: a look who's here
mircea_popescu: hey listen sina, wanna go with me through the fhf spec and make final version ?
mircea_popescu: in an hour or so
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676418 << happy to do any benchmarking you like assuming its agreed finalised
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 20:38 mircea_popescu: was next step but sina moved to gossipding
sina: ahh you took the words out of my mouth!
mircea_popescu: ima l;ist your and ben_vulpes 's impls as canonical
mircea_popescu: after which, benchmarkings.
sina: mircea_popescu: sure. happy to. FWIW, I kept README.md in my python repo updated with the spec as our discussions went on
mircea_popescu: cool. read the article, make list of what you think needs changed
sina: but there are definitely one or two additional refinements
mircea_popescu: yeah, the goal is to nail them ALL.
mircea_popescu: ill be back in about 90 mins.
sina: cool see you then
sina: ben_vulpes: around?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 21:39 mircea_popescu: in the end the circling will always come to the same square : do you wish to live long, or do you wish to live well.
sina: asciilifeform: wondering if you took a look at my revised gossipthing by any chance?
mircea_popescu: i suspect today is the day tmsr production exceeded the ability of any one man to keep abreast of.
asciilifeform: sina: notyet
asciilifeform: prolly this weekend
sina: I mean, it's still written in python and all :P
sina: so I know it still counts as "complete rewrite" in your eyes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still eat'em faster than they shit'em, but currently tied up
mircea_popescu: that's what it's called, in alflang
asciilifeform: with the ffa massages
asciilifeform: sina: will read, promise
sina: appreciated sir
asciilifeform: ( might even.... run! )
mod6: sina: where's the code?
mod6: i'll look at it.
mod6: ah, thx!
sina: asciilifeform: btw I was going to ask you about your feelings on this https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library ...obviously hasn't been impl for constant time/space but regardless. may be possible to ctgrind it using that valgrind patch I linked in the logs
asciilifeform: sina: it is in the logs
sina: mod6: no, thank *you*
sina: ah ok will look
asciilifeform: sina: ( spoiler: ~useless )
asciilifeform: because loc hog
asciilifeform: and nonconst
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 12:08 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633699 << it is a notbad library to study (no external deps!) -- but it DOES use heap.
trinque: consider also the value of the gentleman who writes the thing ~being in your wot~
asciilifeform: and if you even so much as considering valgrind, your ada is ill-conceived
mircea_popescu: quite a not inconsequential value.
sina: that is true trinque
sina: asciilifeform: not valgrind for valgrinding, but ctgrind patched valgrind for checking constant timeness of existing code
sina: but I guess that point stands anyway
asciilifeform: sina: no need for robotic checkers, it is screamingly naked eye
sina: if you impl as constant time you don't need ctgrind
asciilifeform: afaik mine is the only fixed spacetime bigint lib that exists publicly
asciilifeform: ( if whoever knows of another -- plz write in..!! )
sina: asciilifeform: nope, and I did look! the closest thing I found was this, which is both not public and not for constantime, although interesting nonetheless drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2012/3587/pdf/3.pdf
asciilifeform: sina: not public == not exists
sina: can agree
sina: although I do guess the researchers could be convinced to send source
mircea_popescu: not what experience indicates.
asciilifeform: sina: the other thing is, life-critical code gotta be fitsinhead.
asciilifeform: like kalash.
asciilifeform: which means that if you're even thinking about grinders, it is Wrong.
sina: yeah, I definitely appreciate the fitsinhead thing
sina: basically once it's >fitsinhead, nobodies gonna audit it
asciilifeform: sina: worse
asciilifeform: sina: it's physically impossible then
asciilifeform: and whoever insinuates otherwise, is not a friend
sina: somehow it's 1pm and I haven't eaten breakfast, going to walk to the shop
asciilifeform: oh why so many subdirs, sina ?
asciilifeform: makes it painful to read
sina: asciilifeform: I think all the stuff you care about will be in process/
mod6: sina: aside from alfs previous assertions; do you not want a primary key field set in the messages or keys table?
sina: mod6: yes, will add some constraints and indexes
sina: it was intentionally loose to begin with, but now can be constrainted
sina: definitely need index on keys table
sina: mod6: although, again, maybe not, I think the desire is to not have sqlite dep and use fs so...
sina: asciilifeform: do you feel sqlite is an OK dep or no?
asciilifeform: take a guess
sina: I guess you think the entire edifice of computing should be torn down and rebuilt
sina: ;) :D
asciilifeform: we have a winner
asciilifeform: except most of it dun need to be rebuilt, after burning
asciilifeform: nobody needs it for anything.
asciilifeform: certainly not anybody worth knowing, at any rate
sina: in this case it has at least allowed for rapid iteration
asciilifeform: sina: i've personally sewn 'silk purses' from all kinds of sow's ears. incl. python, sql, etc
sina: and I do remember a logline from asciilifeform "written in python because if I didn't then it wouldn't exist" or along those lines
asciilifeform: but they aren't here to stay.
sina: yah, that is understood
asciilifeform: wartime duct tape.
sina: especially for the usecase of gossipd, python cannot be the final lang
sina: must find food. mircea_popescu please excuse if I'm tardy on your return