Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-04-25 | 2017-04-27 → ↓
ben_vulpes: parts of it have an odd feel, as though i were reading altcoin propaganda from another dimension
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen of The Most Serene Republic: My Second Offline Eatblock Sync Test is complete (with DB Read Wait Stats): http://www.mod6.net/eatblock-test/
mod6: I have updated all the statistics, charts, and commentary in place.
mod6: Thanks to diana_coman for the help with gnuplot!
mircea_popescu: mod6 maybe i'm thick, but where's the per-line timing per block ?
mod6: hi
mod6: this is built from this line in the debug.log, for example: "ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 2901ms; db write wait: 313ms; db read wait: 155ms "
mod6: the red lines are the first number after "took", so in the case of the example above, ProcessBlock took 2901 milliseconds.
mod6: is that what you're asking?
mod6: It wouldn't take much more effort to add the AcceptBlock values into the trb_offline_eatblock.png if that's wanted.
mircea_popescu: what i was looking for was, supposing the whole of trb looks like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YOK7i/?raw=true then something like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qGO07/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: literally, time per line of code per block.
mod6 looks
mod6: ah. ok.
mircea_popescu: kinda give a time heatmap for the whole codebase, as it were.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "specifically made to" means a lot less than it appears to, for reasons such as euler's equality etc. pi is a fundamental constant, it's everywhere.
mod6: sure. i missed that point completely - was just putting some stats together from alf's timer/odometer vpatches. i think something along the lines of what you're referring to takes deeper, or much more extensive instrumentation / profiling.
mod6: asciilifeform: unless I'm missing something major from one of your vpatches? (i've also posted my debug.log -- please take a second to see if I'm missing something major if you have a spare one)
mod6: but, in any case, I could work on further analysis like that, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: mod6: you didn't miss any patch
asciilifeform: mod6: and mircea_popescu seems to br asking for gprof raw out
asciilifeform: *be asking
asciilifeform: and fwiw i did not use gprof when i determined where to put the timer -- i used an actually clueful initial hypothesis, and an outer timer ( on ProcessBlock, which was the item of interest ) to compare the output of various inner ones against.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648004 << no i know, but it can't hurt to have
a111: Logged on 2017-04-26 12:15 asciilifeform: this is easy to get, but he ouhta read http://yosefk.com/blog/how-profilers-lie-the-cases-of-gprof-and-kcachegrind.html first.
mircea_popescu: moreover, there's not that many published large codebase sort of thing. in fact, this may be the largest ever.
asciilifeform: 1 snag is that -- afaik -- gprof doesn't work with static bins, or musl.
mircea_popescu: mm. doesn;t it ?
mod6: aha, ok thanks for the info alf.
mod6: will start looking into that. no reason why I cant set that up and do another run.
mircea_popescu: mod6 he has a point, it is a pit of vipers, but at least we'd know.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for one thing, the yossi kreinin piece doesn't EVEN USE an actual program. and this "let's imagine" fluff is pretty much peak data in this "field" of "cultured folks". naimean ?
mircea_popescu: (for the record, his "proper fixation" quote is opaque. fixation is generally used in medicine, but histopathology branch thereof, to denote preparation of microscope slides. if he means "tying up the person", i'd guess that'd be proper affixation or something (not really affixation, that's a grammar term of art), though it's entirely disused.)
mircea_popescu: proper affixion*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unfortunately the d00d is quite correct in his description of the mechanism. gprof doesn't work in the obvious, sane way ( a mechanized version of what i did -- per-routine timer ) but using randomized sampling.
mod6: ah, herp. missed that part about the statics & musl
shinohai: Was in a discussion this morning with someone regarding mircea_popescu 's "How to take control of your provider" piece and was shown this horror: https://twitter.com/SarahDiAvola/status/857214088471953409
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah no dispute as to the theory. just ... practice kills us.
mircea_popescu: shinohai on a scale of 1 to nuts, that's not even cashews.
mircea_popescu: also, ask her for me how does she know to open "the ones with $" without reading the rest.
mircea_popescu: "i read a book i like twice, but books i don't like i don't read at all!11"
shinohai: I had never seen that particular device, and boy have I seen some strange ones.
mircea_popescu: she's got a very nice bj, actually. who dunnit ?
asciilifeform: reminds me of the dream i just woke up from -- where i found a way to send a bit backwards in time
shinohai: Most of the girls won't answer their DM's unless sent > $20 fee. Answering these emails for select ladies could be profitable for me if they'd only pay in Bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: twitter takes a fee ?
shinohai: Nope, the findom girls do tho.
mircea_popescu: shinohai how does she know what to read ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imbecile somehow missed the point that last reverted "upgrade" got "majority" within a week.
mircea_popescu: !!rate rick falkvinge -10 doddering imbecile, entirely unqualified to speak publicly on any matter.
shinohai: I dunno yet for sure, seems each of the greedy bitches has a different method. I'm sure eventually I can automate this too.
mircea_popescu: basicallty, their method is lie();
mircea_popescu: though some just use pretend()
shinohai: The whole of their twitter empire is an illusion, not that I care how much they lie as long as *my* payment is forthcoming.
shinohai: But yes, pretend makes up majority of shitposts in attempt to make themselves appear in demand.
mircea_popescu: the whole "findom" business is a rather funny comment on female behaviour and the nature of the human brain. so out of all the services freeranged cunt could provide to substitute the wife in man's daily economy, "taking his paycheck" is certainly the least useful. but then again as far as the woman's concerned, it's why she got married in the first place.
mircea_popescu: so... let's offer the... service of... doing what we wanted to do anyway. this is a business proposition, now.
shinohai recalls one girl who used fakeinvoicegenerator.com or somesuch to make it appear subs were paying.
mircea_popescu: and "it works" because IT HAS TO, because hey, americans, wholly brain rotten, "can do anything". and if you can you must and therefore let's claim and nobody'll give us the lie because everyone's in the same rut.
shinohai: Didn't bother to crop the url from screenshots
mircea_popescu: shinohai it happens, but it happens like it happens in browser games.
mircea_popescu: ie, you get lucky. most don't.
mircea_popescu: then those who do lord it over the ones who don't, irrespective of how they had ~no merit in it, then those who don't get frustrated and double down their efforts because hey, it's personal now, and that's how women judge their self worth, and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: if the academia scam weren't there to extract the ones with iq > room temp from "street lyfe", we'd be stuck fishing this end of the lulz pond rather than campuses.
shinohai: I'm rather willing to bet 99% of these "dommes" would be flipped in an instant on arrival to mp's harem.
mircea_popescu: how would such arrival work ?
mircea_popescu: no, i expect something more along the lines of http://trilema.com/2011/deci-de-revelion-acum-niste-ani/ ; ie providing they somehow landed in they'd identify a situation according to their own mental furnishings, which'd have nothing much to do with the actual situation, then proceed to "Strategize" on that basis and the girls would toy with her for as long as that's funny before chewing her up and spitting her out.
shinohai: That would be even *more* entertaining.
mircea_popescu: possibru
shinohai: http://archive.is/oOYD8 <<< Supports segwit, hates scams. Noted.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol "like they did with etc".
shinohai: If only anyone actually gave a shit about Litecoin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, either approach discussed is ridiculous. i don't need valgrind to emulate a processor and then guess how long things' take ; i don't want gprof's sampling either. just awk the codebase to add a printf after each instruction spitting out time and recompile. that's it.
mircea_popescu: shinohai well, if they keep talking about it as if someone does, certainly someone one day will.
mircea_popescu: financial domination!!11
shinohai: Something, something, LTC
shinohai: I'm rich.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good luck parsing cpp grammar (yes, all of it...) in awk.
mircea_popescu: it still uses semicolons yes ?
mircea_popescu: ask me to do something i'm good at!
asciilifeform: can't put printf in , e.g., declarations.
mircea_popescu: aren't those in .h ?
asciilifeform: not exclusively.
mircea_popescu: anyway, point still remains, the way to do this is printf time&line each line.
mircea_popescu: awk oneliner may not be available, but in point of fact "find the lines" is a ~solved problem, even for borland ide.
asciilifeform: sadly, again nope
asciilifeform: see callgraph thread.
mircea_popescu: in other DOH, "people who write bad code will misuse profilers also" ~yosefk.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu decided ahead of time to barf -- and did so
mircea_popescu: no i was quoting this as a right and proper observation.
mircea_popescu: wasn't a protest.
asciilifeform: i disagree that there is anything fundamentally misleading in the linked piece.
mircea_popescu: i think he's making an important point.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm not saying there is ; i am saying i don't care for either method of profiling he discusses for this usecase.
mircea_popescu: if you're interested in either gprof or valgrind's callgrind, or both or whatever, his thing is useful. but i'm not. specifically because bitcoin is too large and slow to be run on valgrind-simulated cpu, and moreover if we could do that we wouldn't have any of the problems we currently approach anymore.
mircea_popescu: and gprof is just not useful, with the sampling and etc.
asciilifeform: valgrind doesn't simulate cpu
asciilifeform: it does approx what mircea_popescu asked for
mircea_popescu: afaik it does.
asciilifeform: and result is 500x slowdown.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doesn't simulate cpu -- read the src/docs
asciilifeform: but does insert probes.
mircea_popescu: first fucking line. "cachegrind simulates"
asciilifeform: cachegfind
asciilifeform: cachegrind
mircea_popescu: yes. it is a valgrind plugin is it not.
mircea_popescu: "valgrind [when used for this purpose through this module] simulates" etc.
asciilifeform: this yes
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-04-26 15:22:21: <mircea_popescu> puts the whole "only fate of average mankind is harem slavery" rhetoric quite into focus.
phf: gprof interrupts the program every few ms and saves the backtrace, the whole family is called "sampling profilers" because it only knows of functions that it saw during the interrupt. functions with runtime < interrupt ms show up with wrong estimates
phf: valgrind i take it from what asciilifeform is saying instruments the code, in an equivalent of putting printf after every statement
mircea_popescu: phf functions with any runtime that average about the interval PER CALL show up all over the place.
phf: cachegrind is something else entirely :o
mircea_popescu: cachegrind is a valgrind plugin eh.
phf: right
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D1E6E444832FBBE0092F39A459F03112F0D8F32637F1DC8B8245A86C16578B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1778...3099 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.170.222.10 (ssh-rsa key from 81.170.222.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h-81-170-222-10.NA.corp.bahnhof.se. SE D)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D1E6E444832FBBE0092F39A459F03112F0D8F32637F1DC8B8245A86C16578B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1413...1427 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.170.222.10 (ssh-rsa key from 81.170.222.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h-81-170-222-10.NA.corp.bahnhof.se. SE D)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/308C79ED32BB1D28E5F59EC4ADB2E56B1ED16614D3B4C737238FC3D169AF94B0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Robert J. Hansen; Robert J. Hansen <rjh@sixdemonbag.org>; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DB096A7B64B9F4A9CE82785D9AF80E50E2AAE4BCC607BF6BFDACDD92BF65873C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'PGP Global Directory Verification Key; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5377DC3F52C67DB02FB2F4CBC7391DDD471AF66B9AFF37F4A5FB782434DC1748 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Shell Arkell <shell@zenrio.net>; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/49636881FF5C8C4B95D9CA4B2AB73D5C13B35FF5D9AB0DA41B9E8EC1231F33E5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.45.142.230 (ssh-rsa key from 46.45.142.230 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (voip.istanbuldc.com. TR)
shinohai: lol @ turkish one
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'Korean Bitcoin Exchange Yapizon Loses 3,831 BTC Due To Hack'
asciilifeform: 1) collect btc from chumps 2) 'get hacked' 3) profit
asciilifeform: apparently works same today as in 2011.
shinohai: ^ will add to shitcoin roundup
asciilifeform: voip.istanbuldc.com << this and 1,001 other voip crapolades. gotta wonder why usg is so fixated on voice telephony.
shinohai: Must have fingers in all teh telcom pies. (See upcoming Qntra for more telcom lulz )
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/04/g-inflation-continues-in-fiat-rf-allocation-with-austin-texas-getting-fifth-g/ << Qntra - G Inflation Continues In Fiat RF Allocation With Austin, Texas Getting Fifth G
shinohai: ty BingoBoingo I have another one in limbo
BingoBoingo: good luck
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://v.teknik.io/v/MlDDG << 'FUCKGOATS unboxing' ( pankkake ! )
asciilifeform: <pankkake> if I knew there would be goatse, I would have bought earlier
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/yzAMq << "Grayscale Investments plans to launch the first-ever private fund focused on ethereum classic"
asciilifeform: ahahahahahaha
pete_dushenski: i badly wish silbert's latest fund were a late apr1 joke. just seems too cruel to be true!
pete_dushenski: "Annual Fee: 3% (includes Development Contribution)*"
a111: Logged on 2014-07-08 23:51 asciilifeform: if you can stop all miners but yours - for a given interval - you can plunder blocks at far below the expected energy cost
a111: Logged on 2014-07-08 23:48 asciilifeform: if you can arrange for, say, the entire crop of 'bfl' units to spin their wheels fruitlessly during known time intervals, your own miners (presumably exempt) can be scheduled to run then and precisely then
pete_dushenski: "* The Sponsor intends to direct up to one-third of the Annual Fee, for the first three years of the Trust's operations, towards initiatives that support development, marketing, and community activities of the Ethereum Classic Network."
shinohai: haha I was searching for that tidbit in the logs asciilifeform, thought you had said this previously.
asciilifeform: for ze l0gz: 'The firmware checks-in with a central service randomly every 1 to 11 minutes. Each check-in transmits the Antminer serial number, MAC address and IP address. Bitmain can use this check-in data to cross check against customer sales and delivery records making it personally identifiable. The remote service can then return "false" which will stop the miner from mining.'
phf: beautiful call
asciilifeform: 'backdoor allows Bitmain to shut off a large section of the global hashrate (estimated to be at up to 70% of all mining equipment). It can also be used to directly target specific machines or customers.'
pete_dushenski: "Even without Bitmain being malicious, the API is unauthenticated and would allow any MITM, DNS or domain hijack to shutdown Antminers globally. Additionally the domain in question DNS is hosted by Cloudflare making it trivially subjected to government orders and state control.
pete_dushenski: tragicomedy gold
jhvh1: No one could have predicted!
shinohai: Apparently there is remote code execution exploitation in this backdoor as well: "unexploitable out-of-buffer read access in if(strstr(rec,"false")) as rec may not be zero-ended if 1024 bytes are received."
shinohai goes to shithub to see what else might actually be in there
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski et al : there is no particular reason to suppose that subj is the ~only~ back door, also.
BingoBoingo: lulzies, should have refused service. This is a srs warning to funeral home insurers
a111: Logged on 2014-10-19 03:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 500 lb. body causes fire at Henrico crematory << one time i spent an evening reading cremator manuals (for no particular reason. happened to stroll by a modern crematory on evening walk in new street, was curious.) every manufacturer has special instructions for the peculiarly fat 'clients.'
BingoBoingo: Aha, yes. This keeps happening enough that the only final solution here is refusing service. This must be driven by insurers unless Obama care has perverted the meaning of insurance in the post-health industry too.
asciilifeform: or cremate in open air pyre, like hindus.
asciilifeform: ( where moar fuel --> merrier )
asciilifeform: or on a barge, like viking.
asciilifeform: many possibilities.
BingoBoingo: No, only solution is force the obest to slow cremations on manure pile.
shinohai: If burned in barged, what ensures complete combustion so the remaining fats don't seep into the water supply and pollute ?
shinohai: *in barge
asciilifeform: shinohai: ever boil water in a paper cup ?
shinohai: Can't say I have.
asciilifeform: try it some time
mircea_popescu: does microwave do it ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, but not interestingly.
asciilifeform: point is that it won't burn until water boils out.
pete_dushenski: pete_dushenski: it'd be more surprising if it were the only backdoor. like ferrari factory authorised odometer rollback (this recently too!) would be surprising if it were only sketchy business practice that $RACE engaged in.
pete_dushenski: lol ^ asciilifeform
pete_dushenski: i could at least ping one of my own sockpuppets eh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648125 << because empire of idiots. actually believes bottom is best.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-26 16:57 asciilifeform: voip.istanbuldc.com << this and 1,001 other voip crapolades. gotta wonder why usg is so fixated on voice telephony.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648148 << trivially bypassed, though. i expect more of a "checking if anyone's awake" sort of thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-26 21:12 asciilifeform: 'backdoor allows Bitmain to shut off a large section of the global hashrate (estimated to be at up to 70% of all mining equipment). It can also be used to directly target specific machines or customers.'
asciilifeform: every booby is 'trivially bypassed' AFTER YOU FOUND IT lol
mircea_popescu: it's not so hard to fucking notice your box is dialing out.
asciilifeform: afaik nobody till now ever admitted to having noticed. fwiw.
mircea_popescu: now imagine instead of "false" it actually wanted the time signed.
mircea_popescu: well yes, mining business is secretive.
asciilifeform: imho biggest surprise is that there still is such a thing as a not fully vertically-integrated mining op.
mircea_popescu: this is doubtful.
asciilifeform: it'd appear to follow trivially from the noose item ( why would ant sabotage ~own~ iron. )
asciilifeform: unless subj concerned a stolen/otherwise 'with legs' item. which is possible, i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: they're chinese, they don't make sense. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: "My own experience here is depressing – nobody, not even the smartest folks, is willing to read anything unless they came specifically to read. If they came for any other purpose, forget it. When you're a tutorial, you can tell things to people and they listen. When you're an error message, people read you to the extent necessary to make you go away but no further. And when you're a warning, people simply ignore you. It suc
mircea_popescu: ks to be a warning. People also don't expect things to be complicated enough to warrant a tutorial, so they won't allocate time specifically to read one, on any topic, for any reason. They're wrong, of course, but they won't ever find that out, to the best extent of their abilities."
mircea_popescu: ^yossi, paraphrased slightly.
mircea_popescu: he's pessimistic about big red warnings, i'm pessimistic about the ~possiblity~ of an english-language culture.
mod6: werd to that
mircea_popescu: its hard
shinohai: http://archive.is/oub2t "Järlström is now suing the state board .... arguing that it's unconstitutional to prevent someone from doing math without the government's permission"
mod6: lol
mod6: maga, tell me more.
mod6: burn. it. all.
shinohai hands mod6 some matches....
trinque: sorry; someone already filed a patent on combustion.
trinque: hope you've got an army of lawyers for that match.
mircea_popescu: pretty cool name though
mod6: ya
mod6: typical usg insanity tho.
a111: Logged on 2015-01-27 04:51 mod6: We regret to inform you that your republic has termites.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this has all the makings of adventure
mod6: it certainly seems like it.
mod6: i mean, i had a recent foray into all kinds of nonsense since my mom got sick. the whole thing is just ... b0rk3d. fubar.
mod6: the chance for honest reform came and went at least 20 years ago. probably more like 40.
mod6: now there is only "hope it implodes"
BingoBoingo: I dun think anyone gave Oregon as it presently exists much hope for much mercy when The Great Again comes
mod6: yah, we see this type of feckless, coercive shit everwhere you look these days
trinque: try hiring someone in this environment.
mod6: none of this is limited to Oregon. At least they have their heads screwed on straight with "Right-to-Die" or whatever.
mircea_popescu: trinque slave economy only.
trinque: or selling the most trivial of "tech" (read: some fuckin website)
mod6: mircea_popescu: yah, certainly seems to be headed in the direction like your #eulora log link earlier.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Are you still interested in doing TMSR Journal of Whorticulture?
mircea_popescu: such a great name.
mod6: heheh
shinohai: BingoBoingo: I am. Still in research phase though :/
trinque: mod6: yeah but the "right to die" thing grows out of trying to cut socialist costs
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's just... outside of extremely exceptional cases, the bar for trust needed to hire someone far exceeds the bar of trust needed to have them live with your other girls. it's just nonsense like that.
mircea_popescu: basically the talktards have managed to give away EVERY.SINGLE.GAIN of three centuries of industrialization.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: About how long until a live site spins up? Some agriCulture news is dropping tomorrow and Qntra isn't the right venue. Can go on personal blog if the journal is not yet publishing, but... content will be available if the venue exists.
mod6: trinque: well, whatever the impetus, it still beats "you must suffer because you can't self-terminate. life is precious(tm)"
mircea_popescu went to business school here today, spent five minutes listening in on what evidently was the graduation project of some 4th year kid. do you know what he had ?
trinque: mod6: certainly.
mircea_popescu: he had a succession of slides (uncredited) depicting mostly obscure sportsmen and singers. he wanted to know what the audience thought they had in common.
mircea_popescu: his answer ? exito. (success).
BingoBoingo: !~bash 4
jhvh1: Last 4 lines bashed and pending publication
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: his project was a loose talk on the topic of "entrepreneurialness as a sport", and it was through and through pre-literare juju worship.
mircea_popescu: "these here bears have the fighting spirit, i want to be great warrior, i worship bear totem"
mircea_popescu: white man used to have a literate culture built atop a capitalist society etcetera etcetera. the fucking africans have won, it's all gone by now.
mircea_popescu: five centuries building, fifty years squandering.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: I'd say publish for now on personal blog, will republish on new site when I get the kinks out.
mod6: mircea_popescu: just reckless beyond all comprehension. quite interesting times, these are.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648225 << organ market. the belgian scum admitted to it quite recently.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 02:13 trinque: mod6: yeah but the "right to die" thing grows out of trying to cut socialist costs
trinque: ah, profit center even.
asciilifeform: 'unhappened' , of course.
mircea_popescu: what else are they good for ?
mircea_popescu: and plox don't tell me "creativity" thx.
asciilifeform: 'if you can, you must' (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648229 << folx were cashing in their chips long before 'legal', the 'reform' is about something very much else. see above.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 02:14 mod6: trinque: well, whatever the impetus, it still beats "you must suffer because you can't self-terminate. life is precious(tm)"
mod6: well, i only use that as an exception
mod6: it recently felt pretty fucking awful to watch my mom wither away infront of my eyes while suffering. not allowed to die, she doesn't have permission.
mod6: i'd have killed her myself if they'd let me.
mircea_popescu: mod6 afaik the white man custom is, doctor prescribes whole month of sedatives, she accidentally takes them.
mod6: it ~basically~ comes down to that.
mircea_popescu: well how'd you have it work ?
mod6: BUT, you have to have insurance or whatever to get that.
trinque: whatever else, the old/infirm without question belong to whatever next of kin
trinque: if they're not still paying own way
mod6: they were all like. "OMG SHE DOESN"T HAVE 24 HOUR CARE AT HOME?!?!?"
mod6: "NO. WE TOLD YOU THIS 69,000 YOU COCKSUCKERS."
mircea_popescu: trinque and the king belongs to the kingdom and what else ?
mod6: "WHAT IF SHE WONDERS OFF AND FREEZES TO DEATH?!"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Other traditional solution is "making comfortable" where narcotics perscribed for pain increases in steps until amount is incompatible with life
mod6: "WHAT IF?!"
mircea_popescu: mod6 she could walk off ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aha, bout same.
mod6: they made us take her home when we said that we were not going to treat her cancer.
mircea_popescu: the hospital you mean ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: aha, just the color of "medical necessity"
trinque: mircea_popescu: king would still be paying own way, eh?
mircea_popescu: who counts the paying ?
mod6: yeah, the hospital.
mod6 burns with rage
mircea_popescu: do hookers pay their own way ? subquestion : i know this woman who pays a dude to rent from her, and also has to suck him off. is she paying her way ?
mod6: the entire thing i went through in the last 90 days just affirms to me how truly fucked up this shit is.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the idea being that they're in the business of treating, gotta be treatin' or not there.
mod6: which is fine. everyone is obviously entitled to make a profit.
mod6: that's not the problem.
mircea_popescu: im not even sure it's the profit, prolly shortage of specialist beds.
mircea_popescu: i don't think i've ever seen a jurisdiction where oncology beds weren't short. ever.
mod6: they then turned around on us and tried to get the state involved saying that we were being neglectful of a vulnerable adult.
mircea_popescu: kinda says it's own sad story about the state of postindustrial world, this.
trinque: well that's the whole thing, as I see it
mod6: she had 4 days fully covered. and about 40% of the other three days... mind, she was only at home for 20 days.
trinque: adult incapable of self-care belongs to either gutter or own family
mod6: anyway, it never came to anything, because then we got her into a charity hospice.
trinque incidentally had a family friend die of same type of cancer last week
mod6: but if it wasn't for that! then what?
mod6: sorry trinque :[
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, it's an iffy thing all around. most hospices are a) insanely expensive considering what that same dollar'd get you in say vegas and b) really worse conditions than ~anything seen in civilian housing.
mod6: yah for sure. this place she went was actually pretty damn good, considering, free.
mod6: but man, $5k up front to walk in the door for any non-free place.
mircea_popescu: got lucky, i'd say.
asciilifeform: usg is involved -- so naturally $1k bedpans, $200k bedpan-emptying-specialists.
mircea_popescu: from what i hear it's actuallyh on the mend, was significantly worse cca 2000s, but anyway.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> yeah, the hospital. << Grandpa had to move from hospital with excellent rehab program and pallative care to "speciallist" rehabilitation nursing facility, and the day he made the move was when his post-stroke decline became unrecoverable.
mod6: and then it's like something like $5k a week for room/board after that + medical expenses.
mod6: mircea_popescu: we got uber lucky. that's the point. you shound't have to get lucky when something like this happens.
mircea_popescu: mod6 20k a week gets you the penthouse at the taj mahal + your personal dozen hookers.
mircea_popescu: and they wanna tell me one sixth of a fat woman and some moldy upholstery is "market competitive" ?
mircea_popescu: 20k a month, i mean.
mod6: yah its crazy
asciilifeform: mmno 20k/mo doesn't even get you a 4star suite in chicago.
mod6: BingoBoingo: sorry to hear that :/
BingoBoingo: Small town hospital had room service and pastoral service with nuns coming through for communion every day. "Rehabilitation nursing" facility had "fall alarms" allegedly addressed eventually.
mod6: Anyway, i shake my head. I mentioned it during the whole thing a month or so ago. It was total chaos at best.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the peninsula is ready to give you teh grand deluxe room at 500/night. half price for a whole month. call them.
mod6: BingoBoingo: sounds familiar. my mom hated the alarms. she set them off one day, few days before she died, and fought two young nurses over it.
mod6: punched one in the face.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, lesson from the story is get terminal in small town with excellent Catholic hospital and have the good luck to die before discharge.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'sure you aren't operating with pre-2001 prices ?
mircea_popescu: i just got a bunch, so you happen to have hit hot cache.
mircea_popescu: 500sqft being larger than about half of the "apartments" "engineers" dwell in, at that.
asciilifeform: lol , mircea_popescu on expedition to 'windy city' ?!
BingoBoingo: mod6: The hospital did have the alarms, but they were SILENT in the patient room for sanity promotion reasons.
mircea_popescu: not personally.
mod6: BingoBoingo: see, now that makes some sense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i liked 'palmer house', ~same rate. gilded age relic.
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen, I just don't know. Mr. Popescu has it, we were lucky. And it feels like such a shitty, actually, horrible way to have to feel about such a damn tragedy.
mircea_popescu: i will note that chicago is terrible market, badly developed. las vegas is hugely oversupplied, you can get terrifying deals (if they know you)
mircea_popescu: mod6 i can see what you mean.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can always 'get terrifying deals if they know you', even from penguins in antarctica.
mircea_popescu: there is also that.
BingoBoingo: Also hospital had morning and evening visits with physical and occupational therapists. Patriarch managed to get back to walking ~100 ish feet. First day at nursing facility somehow collarbone was broken and no narcotics were administered for days because "bad for recovery". Yes narcotics are bad for recovery generally, but also 91 years old is 91 years old and entire right side brain ischemia is entire right side brain ischemia.
mircea_popescu: that's pretty terrible.
asciilifeform: mod6: 1 day of wasting away in cheapo hospital costs 5k, and y'know why? it's so that the lizards can get your house, supposing you owned one.
BingoBoingo: Anyways the nursing profession's ineptitude was enabled by the unhealthy relationship my mom's sister has with human mortality
mod6: asciilifeform: oh, it's certainly an unspoken truth
mod6: BingoBoingo: sorry. yeah, that sounds awful.
mircea_popescu: "nursing profession" much like the various other "social science" experts, social workers etc are about as qualified as their weight in earthworms.
mod6: you know the damnable misery of the whole thing? i woudln't have let my dog go through the same suffering.
mircea_popescu: kinda the problem with all the makework positions, "teachers", "daycare specialists" and on it goes.
mircea_popescu: mod6 no, i think they're on top of that. pretty sure i saw pet hospice advertised.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "nursing profession" much like the various other "social science" experts, social workers etc are about as qualified as their weight in earthworms. << it was the social workers that were the ones who raised questions on us, after countless conversations about post-hospital care.
mod6: these people will not go unaccounted for.
mircea_popescu: there's basically this large-is (~14%) subset of population with no certain skillset and vastly inflated impression of self-importance.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> kinda the problem with all the makework positions, "teachers", "daycare specialists" and on it goes. << If the "makework" doesn't include lift and move materials as needed for paying customers it's more welfare
mod6: mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as dog, 100 years ago; your dog got cancer? you take it out and shoot the poor thing.
mod6: same with horse, etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it is, the problem with it is that 10% or less of the payola is paid out as bezzle usd ; the remaineder 90% or more is paid out as pats on the back, empty and baseless congratulatory verbiage and generally speaking psychotronic noise.
mircea_popescu: average "social worker" makes 500k a year, of which 35k paid in cash and 465k worth of ass blowing.
mircea_popescu: teacher makes like a million (27k in cash or w/e it was)
BingoBoingo: Around here teacher makes about 45k-120k
BingoBoingo: before ass blowing
mircea_popescu: what, 10k a month ? when the fuck did that happen
mod6: ugh, the social worker cretins.
mod6: actually, so 7 were horrible. one helped me get my mom into the charity hospice.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: When the teachers stopped retiring because muh pension and the union "length of service" raises kept happening
mod6: but not until i basically lost my marbles about the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: ahaha holy shit look at that, avg illinois suburban teacher made 80k
mod6: a nurse was browbeating me about a bunch of shit... and then I just went off the deep end.
mircea_popescu: dude, and srsly the inflation is single digit ?
mod6: 80k
mircea_popescu: mod6 this isn't your way of telling us you got six dead hookers in your shed is it ?
mod6: wtf is happening.
trinque: mod6: every narcissistic whore I ever knew in highschool went into nursing school, just about
mircea_popescu: trinque better than beautician, neh. + she loves children.
mod6: mircea_popescu: lol, no. i did't have to hurt anybody or anything. i just lost my cool.
BingoBoingo: 80k is mostly inflated by Chicago where the cost of living is in line with the rest of the state but for some reason state employees generally get 10-20k a year more for "cost of living"
mod6: i stayed pretty pro throughout the entire affair, actually.
mod6: that was the only time that I needed to give someone a piece of my mind.
mod6: strangely, it was effective. typically, you start barking shit at someone and you dig your own grave.
BingoBoingo: $400/mo apartment is possible in City of Chicago, then not really again until you go to the south pole of Illinois
mod6: trinque: werd. and from what I can tell, because of the nursing unions etc, they basically run the place now.
mod6: doctors are there, but nurses run the show.
shinohai: Dammit, I know I got my nursing degree in here somewhere: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-YmRkuWsAAjlXF.jpg
mod6: lol
mod6: Anyway, thanks for being an ear.
shinohai: An entire triage unit!
mircea_popescu: there;s a joke in there
mircea_popescu: anyway, fancy this wonder, avg chicago schoolteacher makes more than jack warner averaged over his career.
mircea_popescu: BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO INFLATION!!!
mod6: today i bought lunch for me & perf lady today. $22.50.
mod6: that's nearly 50 cheeseburgers in 1992 dollars.
mod6: ok, not 50. 37.5. my bad (@0.60 each)
mircea_popescu: where was that pic
mod6: ah yah, Mitch!
mircea_popescu: that was a pretty great film, actually.
mod6: yah, nb.
mod6: So, anyway, back to business here..
mod6: I've been meaning all month to get to do some ticket reorg for trb. I'm still going to try to it this week here.
mod6: I appreciate TMSR's patience while I dealt with these other irl things.
mod6: Wasn't a total loss this month being able to do some FG testing and eatblock testing.
BingoBoingo: testing is work
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/04/trump-unveils-plans-for-massive-tax-cut-benefiting-the-working-poor-in-us/ << Qntra - Trump Unveils Plans For Massive Tax Cut Benefiting The Working Poor In US
mod6: BingoBoingo: werd. 'tis useful anyway.
mod6: this morning's convo re profiling brings up some good points.
mod6: was wondering what we might do about such things with Ada or trbi
mircea_popescu: well ideally we won't need so much jungle profiling with properly written code.
mod6: that's fair.
mod6: me and this lady wrote this performance framework to put this app under load and do simulations etc.
mod6: was considering something of the same. but maybe it's not nearly as hard to get trbi or whatever we have under load; just hook it up, see what happens.
mod6: will cross that bridge when we get to it. many other bridges ahead of it anyway.
asciilifeform: properly-written proggy is worth > 1001yrs of debuggery.
mod6: incomplete/buggy app isn't even worth performance testing anyway.
asciilifeform: e.g. i got bignumatron core down to ~500ln, and this is without any 'cleverness' or 'idiomatic' liquishit.
mod6: that's super exciting. trying to do pre-optimizations of code rarely works out well. just keep it simple, and if any optimizations are required, made later.
mod6: i think there's a knuth quote somewhere about know where the 3% of the code is that is performance-significant 'optimize that, not everything'.
mod6: (paraphrasing here)
mod6: "We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%"
asciilifeform: the unspoken corollary, is that sometimes there is ~no~ speed-critical component. at which point you can optimize for something else entirely.
asciilifeform: in this case, correctness & fits-in-head.
mod6: yeah. this is pretty landmark stuff here alf.
asciilifeform: it'll make sense when you read the code.
asciilifeform: ( sorta whole point... )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://www.oregonlive.com/rosefest/index.ssf/2017/04/organizers_cancel_82nd_avenue.html >> '"You have seen how much power we have downtown and that the police cannot stop us from shutting down roads so please consider your decision wisely," the anonymous email said, telling organizers they could cancel the Republican group's registration or else face action from protesters. "This is non-negotiable."'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ^
trinque: this fits my pet caricature of the antifa folks just fine.
trinque: behold, mother, we have... disrupted part of a parade about flowers or something.
trinque: far cry from that guy's "the left is willing to crack heads, unlike the right"
trinque: the narcissism prevents them or anyone else on teh continent from organized behavior
mod6: "everyone must share our opinion! 2+2=5!"
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