Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-02-22 | 2017-02-24 →
deedbot: << The Whet - Yankee Doodle Henry, Part III
trinque: this is getting great.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1132.0, vol: 11870.49427512 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1110.612, vol: 5569.02674 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1134.8, vol: 14528.00686702 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1086.519981, vol: 4311.64890000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1134.1, vol: 1989.691172 | Volume-weighted last average: 1124.93557762
mircea_popescu: google has gpu farm huh.
asciilifeform: fpga farm also.
asciilifeform: (not mega-seekrit, it was what alphago ran on)
shinohai: In other news `SHA-1` is trending on twitter today:
asciilifeform: !#s sha1
asciilifeform: ^ rich chronicle of lulz
deedbot: << Trilema - Is it still rape if I write "science" on my penis first ?
asciilifeform: oh mircea_popescu , ben_vulpes , mod6 , et al : the wires patch has a mistake, it fails to reconnect; please do not waste time to test it until fixed.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS!
asciilifeform: ^ [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Wires (rev. 1)
trinque: However they ~will~ prevent the idiotic situation where known/trusted nodes were treated equally to random scum. << lovely, thank you asciilifeform
trinque: later today I will test
asciilifeform: trinque: two main things to test, afaik: 1) reconnects (let it connect, then temporarily ban ip in iptables on the other side; see how long it takes to reconnect) and 2 ) bidirectional wires, two nodes 'wired to' one another, same, in each direction.
shinohai: ty asciilifeform .... will test this afternoon
asciilifeform: third item to test : two or more wires.
asciilifeform: fourth item : wires over ssh tunnel (set up the tunnel, then add as your wire)
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
trinque: you got it.
asciilifeform: oh i neglected to revise the readme: 'they don't ever voluntarily get disconnected' is not strictly true!!!! wires are now permitted to disconnect (in catastrophic situations, e.g. flood) but will attempt to reconnect after the set interval, ad infinitum.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu in re: , interestingly zoolag -- despite being an x86 comp the size of a tea saucer, and weighing ~400 gram -- has roughly 3x faster block verification (of given block) than dulap ! -- on account of ssd.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 03:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, the point in case block we were discussing yest. i timed it at 22 minutes on "reasonable" amd.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: there's also that.
asciilifeform: seems to support the disk thrashing hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: certainly a large part.
asciilifeform: in other lulz:
asciilifeform: 'One of the first speeches at this year’s Conservative Political Action Conference challenged the media to stop referring to the “alt-right,” a small, far-right movement that seeks a whites-only state and that strongly backed Donald Trump for president, as conservative. “There is a sinister organization that is trying to warp its way into our ranks,” said Dan Schneider, the executive director of the American Conservative Un
asciilifeform: ion, which runs CPAC. “We must not be deceived by [a] hateful, left-wing fascist group.”'
asciilifeform: and in neighbouring monkey cage,
asciilifeform: 'William H. McRaven, a retired four-star admiral and former Navy SEAL, defended journalists this week, calling President Trump’s denunciation of the media as “the enemy of the American people” the “greatest threat to democracy” he’s seen in his lifetime.'
asciilifeform: and in same fishwrap, another 'new york deathray plot', >> 'The U.S. Army veteran was charged last week with trying to support the Islamic State ... Agents swooped in during a meeting with a man Hester believed was an Islamic State contact, according to an affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Missouri. But the man was actually an undercover FBI agent who had been building a case against the 25-year-0ld f
asciilifeform: ather of two.'
asciilifeform: 'On his profile, he described himself as “Zionist Jew Pig Redneck Hunting Super Assassin,” according to court documents. '
asciilifeform: brilliant.
asciilifeform: 'Hester said he didn’t have money for bullets but could buy some in a couple weeks when he got his tax return.'
mats: lol
asciilifeform: nao, nobody expects to read about non-retarded 13337 t3rror1stz in the völkischer beobachter. but apparently nowhere else, either.
mircea_popescu: clearly the jew pig did a great turn for our democracy.
mircea_popescu: these be dangerous twenty five year olds with two kids.
asciilifeform: and with temper tantrums at wife in lolmart, etc.
asciilifeform: fit for lafond article.
mircea_popescu: anyway, what did the pravda say, what is the "big" and non-alt-right conservative ?
mircea_popescu: either in terms of who participates or what it proposes. i can't seem to find either ?
mircea_popescu: this "small" alt right seems to be about the entire right.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'non-alt' is the old 'gop', the one that sets up 9/11s, invades iraq, etc.
asciilifeform: 'alt' is -- until recently -- crackpots, mr.mold et al. now is hell knows what, 1,001 remoras.
mircea_popescu: ie what, rove + rumsfeld ? can they even piss on their own by now ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they put on new set of hand muppet gloves, clitler et al.
mircea_popescu: i thought the pantsuit clown was "progressive" not "conservative".
mircea_popescu: did they mix the hagen dasz ?
asciilifeform: the 'respectable conservatives' are a zhirinovskian 'heat sink' and have been for decades.
mircea_popescu: so the media reports to have been "challenged" to stop mentioning the rapist raping it into an early grave by certain imaginary friends it has hallucinated into existence ?
mircea_popescu: somebody should give the media its pills.
asciilifeform: speaking of zhirinovskys,
asciilifeform: 'White nationalist Richard Spencer says he’s been kicked out of a gathering of conservative activists. Spencer posted a video on the internet saying he was “politely asked to leave” the Conservative Political Action Conference. Spencer was booted shortly after being denounced by an organizer of the conference. American Conservative Union Executive Director Dan Schneider denounced the so-called alt-right as anti-Semitic, racist
asciilifeform: and sexist.'
mats: i lost some coin betting against the sha1 collision
mats: :(
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check that out, just like the white house!
mircea_popescu: it shall be so lulzy to watch the libertards reconstruct BOTH the shreds of their failed official-left party as well as an imaginary not-trump GOP, all this while actually having to work two jobs to support themselves because well, the endowments are gone-gone.
mircea_popescu: it's like going from jewish princess to blue collar divorced man in the space of one fucking season.
asciilifeform: they're gone?!
asciilifeform missed the memo
mircea_popescu: they're gone.
asciilifeform: mats: it is a little disappointing, apparently not fully general collision, but only works on strings having a certain structure
asciilifeform: which, i cannot help but notice, resembles the mirrored keys on phuctor...
mats: i am inconsolable
mats: likely donged by some googler in the project
asciilifeform: mats: i learned my lesson re bbet during the leesedol thing.
mats: i did not learn my lesson
mats: it is time for me to give up betting
asciilifeform: 'don't play chump games unless you stacked the deck yourself. and even then, reconsider.'
mats: i am reformed
mats: i was also stung by the alphago bet
mircea_popescu: betting is supposed to be a passtime you.
mircea_popescu: exactly like talking to unknown women.
mircea_popescu: you're not supposed to build your life on it.
asciilifeform: more like taking unknown pills.
mircea_popescu: not unless you're gay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically they're mining pdfs. anything, ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, please god anything, just as long as it's not the thing.
mircea_popescu: they should probably hire adlai.
mircea_popescu: dude, they are mining pdfs. you understand this ?
mircea_popescu: added a fucking nonce, diddle it, hurr durr we're contributering.
asciilifeform: the sha1 people posted the algo. shouldn't take too much work to turn it into a, e.g., gpg fp clobberer.
asciilifeform: as i currently understand it.
mircea_popescu: ~none whatsoever, yep.
asciilifeform: or git clobberer
mircea_popescu: that's already broken.
mircea_popescu: anyway, may even work with the FULL fingerprint/
asciilifeform: well yes, specifically the full fp
asciilifeform: short fp was breakable on a 486
mircea_popescu: which is funny seeing how tmsr design was moving towards "full modulus" a year ago and "for no reason"
mircea_popescu: other than us being you know, unscientific and crazy.
asciilifeform: 'refused to use git for no reason'
asciilifeform: 'ain't git-cum-pgp as good as v..?' -- somebody or other
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's an intermediate fp between the 40 char and the 8 char item.
asciilifeform: 'A V4 fingerprint is the 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the octet 0x99, followed by the two-octet packet length, followed by the entire Public-Key packet starting with the version field. The Key ID is the low-order 64 bits of the fingerprint. ' -- ye olde rfc4880
asciilifeform: notice that this comes with a built-in twiddle nonce -- the key creation timestamp
adlai: mircea_popescu: dafuq do you want
mircea_popescu: dude, get lost. i'm going to use you for a urinal. that's it.
asciilifeform: lel d00d was tuned in, all this time..
mircea_popescu: bare life is resilient if nothing else.
mircea_popescu: the female lesson.
adlai: all i gotta say is << takes one to know one!
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 14:49 mircea_popescu: you are an idiot ; go away.
asciilifeform: adlai: any time you feel like doing something useful -- no shortage of items. there is, for instance, a trb knob direly needing testing,
danielpbarron: the collision was apparently real enough to trigger the spending of a bounty contained in some nonstandard address abomination >>
mircea_popescu: don't be ridiculous.
shinohai: A Gavinized addy to be fair
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it's as real as it gets, why wouldn't it be real
trinque: !!v F3F6D82C88ACE2E26D827DD848196508ACC2E2F5ACBF465EA39F4618FDE17FB6
deedbot: trinque rated adlai -1 << endless noise
danielpbarron: !!gettrust deedbot adlai
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 5 connections.
asciilifeform: lol firing squad
asciilifeform: in other vintage lulz, 'Note also that unlike nearly every other OpenPGP subsystem, there are no parameters in the MDC system. It hard-defines SHA-1 as its hash function. This is not an accident. It is an intentional choice to avoid downgrade and cross-grade attacks while making a simple, fast system. (A downgrade attack would be an attack that replaced SHA-256 with SHA-1, for example. A cross-grade attack would replace SHA-1 wi
asciilifeform: th another 160-bit hash, such as RIPE-MD/160, for example.)'
danielpbarron: !!v B70C174B83C2EDD8F14C99B964B18D4763A3471642B3247CABB7258FE1BA4F4A
deedbot: danielpbarron rated adlai -1 << shut up already
asciilifeform: -- the -- i shit thee not -- rfc.
asciilifeform: 'to prevent anal punishments, we pre-inserted this road cone into your arse. this is not an accident. it is an intentional choice...'
asciilifeform: >> golden lulzies, 'Note that the value of your SHA256, RIPEMD160, RIPEMD160(SHA256()) or SHA256^2 bounty may be diminished by the act of collecting it.'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 18:47 danielpbarron: the collision was apparently real enough to trigger the spending of a bounty contained in some nonstandard address abomination >>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important point there is : the whole fake bitcoin address (3something) is supposed to be "useful" in practice. this utility is supposed to be proven by idiotic "challenges" like this one put up by peter todd. EXCEPT the output does not actually SIGN the transaction claiming the bounty.
asciilifeform: it was a toy, and even explicitly warned 'you must mine the block yourself, or miner can simply take the prize'
mircea_popescu: what they say is "we recommend you mine the block yourself", because totally, this is how it goes, instead of saying "we understand this doohickey is braindamaged beyond the conceivable and the only reason it exists is the existential void besetting our meaningless existence"
mircea_popescu: it's not so much a toy as peter todd & friends are retards.
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack, for whoever may have forgotten, gpg sigs ONLY contain 64bit keyid. e.g., from my vpatch sigs, 0xB98228A001ABFFC7 .
mircea_popescu: or to quote from the cesspool, "This is both incredibly fascinating, and a beautiful show of the kinds of innovation the Bitcoin system supports!"
asciilifeform: at quite reasonable expense, enemy can produce a key that sha-fp's to B98228A001ABFFC7, and for which he has the priv p,q.
asciilifeform: ditto mircea_popescu's, and everybody else.
mircea_popescu: yeah, the whole rsa signature thing needs an overhaul.
asciilifeform: it is not particularly difficult for tmsr folk to avoid situation where this boojum matters. however it is quite ~impossible~ for heathens to avoid.
asciilifeform: signatures from, e.g., linus, are automatically in question.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough challenge is actually stronger.
asciilifeform: and anyone else with whom you (for particular values of 'you') have not exchanged, out of band, modulus.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 00:38 asciilifeform: mod6: all pgptrons live and die by sha1.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-17 02:16 asciilifeform: btw does mircea_popescu know what would happen if a pgp key with his main key but new magical subkey were generated and posted to sks ?
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough -- it is currently the case that deedbot's deeds list integrity is currently protected by republican design rather than by usg's "cryptographic standards".
asciilifeform: mechanical, bitwise integrity -- yes
mircea_popescu: this is where you link any imbecile of the geoffrey supran variety who dares blather about how "do not homebrew crypto"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i just mean the reason it can't get crapflooded with fake deeds.
mircea_popescu: "gotta be voiced"
asciilifeform: not without a broad daylight fleanode break.
mircea_popescu: even then. "you weren't voiced on my machine, whence did this deed come from"
asciilifeform: the real headache is that it is entirely possible to produce a 'i eat toe fungus!', signed, sincerely, 0x8A736F0E2FB7B452. a year ago i estimated that this costs 100k usd. today -- probably a few thou.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o hey, consider this situation : 1. i know your fp, so i make fake key for that fp. 2. i know trinque 's fp, so i make fake key for that fp too. 3. i know you keep a signed copy of trinque's key on your keyring ; so : 4. i proceed to sign trinque's fake key with your fake key and 5. pretend to be a noob and give you my gpg pubkey.
mircea_popescu: if you --import it gpg will probably update trinque's key under your signature won't it.
asciilifeform: it will, guaranteed.
asciilifeform: the keyring thing is a work of evil.
mircea_popescu: well ahem.
ben_vulpes: oh fuckin gross
mircea_popescu: apparently replacing gpg just became top priority.
asciilifeform: became a serious itch for asciilifeform when he watched a sha1 collision get crapped out on demand, for minor project, at butugychag 1+ yr ago
mircea_popescu: we started moving away from sha-1 to sha-512 digests for clearsigned messages what, coupla years back ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes but this does 0 for gpg fp.
asciilifeform: they are hard-wired to sha.
asciilifeform: regardless of knob settings. it is required by the rfc, and is in common among all known pgptrons.
mircea_popescu: i'm not disputing that part ; just saying that it's not exactly a surprise.
asciilifeform: should not have been a surprise, to anyone. like the old example of derelict bridge falling down. 'not an if, but a when'
mircea_popescu: anyway. to get back to the point of interest : it is entirely possible to produce a 'i eat toe fungus!', signed, sincerely, 0x8A736F0E2FB7B452. ; but it is not possible to hide the fact that this was a fake from the owner of the privkey and anyone who has his pubkey.
asciilifeform: trivially correct.
asciilifeform: will add also that from the pov of a third party unliked to wot of (owner) or (usurper), there are now ~two~ 0x8A736F0E2FB7B452 people.
mircea_popescu: now, this said, we still should prolly replace gpg.
mircea_popescu: (and, of course, we have, courtesy of you know, that "unreasonable expenditure that will spell the ruin of s.nsa and with it of the entire republic!!11" a complete list of all rsa moduli.)
asciilifeform: we also have a few other things, e.g., .
a111: Logged on 2016-12-11 23:00 asciilifeform: i was not going to expand on the 'p' thread until the proggy is done, but this is probably a good time to say 1 more
mircea_popescu: how's that coming along ?
asciilifeform: ~done. i was aiming to SPARKify it before release...
mircea_popescu: i think it's a good time to release (provided it doesn't turn into a wires thing eh!), we can have it on qntra and "republic same day response" etc.
asciilifeform: this is one of those 'sapper -- errs once' affairs.
asciilifeform: safety-critical code.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'SPARKify'? reduce existing code to fit into SPARK subset of ada?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is more than simply 'reduce', but yes
ben_vulpes: aye, certainly.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-11 21:09 asciilifeform: trinque: it is a very simple thing, think 'rpn calculator' and you almost have it.
deedbot: << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
deedbot: << Pull Your Own Strings - Simple Blender 2.66 -> Cal3d
asciilifeform: 'YouTube cuts popular live stream of giraffe about to give birth for 'nudity and sexual content''
trinque: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: trinque: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1178.98, vol: 10955.20557454 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1136.159, vol: 6445.08664 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1181.4, vol: 21505.71700862 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1119.21264, vol: 5499.66000000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1179.0, vol: 2546.68111312 | Volume-weighted last average: 1167.21082463
trinque: it has now been zero minutes since the last all time low for USD
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in re >> << 'Google’s Jigsaw unit, as part of a larger effort to battle online trolling, said earlier today that it was releasing a new tool called Perspective, software that uses machine learning to detect harassment and abuse online.'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-22 07:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a common thread going through the google go ai, attempts to "secure the banking system against risk", the surveillance state / internet of things / smart cars and so on.
asciilifeform: 'The software works by determining the “toxicity” of online comments, a scale that has been established by mining millions of comments from the web and then presenting them to panels of 10 people (humans!) at a clip to get their feedback. '
asciilifeform: 'Update February 23rd, 1:45PM ET: Twitter user Ramsey Nasser points out that the algorithm has consistently high toxicity for Arabic, no matter the content.'
a111: Logged on 2013-12-04 18:23 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 1210.0, vol: 15442.99754919 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1150.01, vol: 12582.57372365 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1059.9, vol: 11463.51851 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1150.01, vol: 2621.40917063 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 975.55, vol: 94.01568371 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1126.0836, vol: 49103.04600000 | Volume-weighted last average: 1135.7963542
asciilifeform: or what, we aren't counting mtgox ? then why count the other leveraged and otherwise paper-addled exchanges.
trinque: you're ruining perfectly good gloating, you know
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, system of two 'wired' trb nodes appears to have marked resistance to 'blackhole'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mtgox went to 1 cent, not high.
asciilifeform: first it went to 1300s.
mircea_popescu: a did it ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, re "online trolling", it's by now a rather transparent euphemism for "racist homophobic terrorism" aka "russia influencing elections" aka pantsuit clown getting raped by reality.
mircea_popescu: o hey check it out -- latest trilema article not actually indexed by google.
mircea_popescu: this could be because "rape" (this happened before, a few trilema articles that google unhappened) ; or maybe triloxic content finally got its comeuppance.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the monkey cage,
mircea_popescu: turns out "the biftinex hack" was ~= same as "the mtgox blabla", ie usg ran off with the coins ?
mircea_popescu: (but nice trick with the archive there, got me to check out reddit and it wasn't even talking about me!)
asciilifeform: in other noose! zoolag and dulap are now wire-via-ssh-tunneled together.
asciilifeform: worx great.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes , mod6 , shinohai , et al :
asciilifeform: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) A Recipe for the use of Wires via SSH Tunnels.
asciilifeform: and holy mother of fuck, jurov , why does your thing mangle '@' into 'at'
asciilifeform: guessed.
asciilifeform: anyway this is up an' running.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, mircea_popescu , << i think we have the answer to 'why did asciilifeform get 64kb of crapolade in the guise of ZIPs from in july of '16 ? '
asciilifeform: 'cloudbleed'
asciilifeform: 'On February 17th 2017, I was working on a corpus distillation project, when I encountered some data that didn't match what I had been expecting. It's not unusual to find garbage, corrupt data, mislabeled data or just crazy non-conforming data...but the format of the data this time was confusing enough that I spent some time trying to debug what had gone wrong, wondering if it was a bug in my code. In fact, the data was bizarre enoug
asciilifeform: h that some colleagues around the Project Zero office even got intrigued. It became clear after a while we were looking at chunks of uninitialized memory interspersed with valid data. ...'
asciilifeform: ( and yes, uses shitflare , continuously )
asciilifeform: 'I don't know if this issue was noticed and exploited, but I'm sure other crawlers have collected data and that users have saved or cached content and don't realize what they have, etc. We've discovered (and purged) cached pages that contain private messages from well-known services, PII from major sites that use cloudflare, and even plaintext API requests from a popular password manager that were sent over https (!!).'
asciilifeform:, unsurprisingly, has top priority of... purging 13333337 s33333kr1tz from its public caches.
asciilifeform: because this unrapes, apparently, someone.
asciilifeform: << from the horse's mouth.
asciilifeform: 'The underlying bug occurs because of a pointer error.'
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy that they had the 'how we FOUND our BUG!' document hot an'ready to broadcast.
asciilifeform: ok this is delicious, but i must briefly revisit upstack: mircea_popescu , mod6 , or anyone else in my l1 who wants to ssh+wire-peer with dulap: please gpggram a ssh rsa pubkey to me.
mircea_popescu: so basically cloudflare is a piece of shit. whoa.
deedbot: << Ossasepia - Basic toolchain for Blender – Cal3d – Crystal Space
asciilifeform: 'opposed piston engine'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is quite neat
ben_vulpes: how many hours does it take to pay your rent?
asciilifeform: i'm usually sold by the pound...
mircea_popescu: i thought you were sold by the year+
asciilifeform: typically
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you're not going to get a straight answer.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: not looking for an answer, it's a compliment on the his prolific output
asciilifeform: dulap down for next 3 minutes, folx
asciilifeform: (only node, rather, on dulap)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you got reversin' that needs doing, or wat
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaand we're back.
asciilifeform: no moar ping-reject.
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaaand wire-reconnector worx!
asciilifeform: ( what this looks like : you get some, e.g., 'WARNING: disconnecting wire ! (will retry...)' in the debug log. until the wire peer is happy to eat again . )
asciilifeform: lulzily we're banning ~100% of prb nao because they ~insist~ on shitting out 'alert' packets
asciilifeform: (mine, and any other malleus-enabled nodez, will ban.)
asciilifeform: 22 peers.
veen: << soliciting further input on this question
a111: Logged on 2017-02-03 15:53 asciilifeform: not a difficult patch, but remains to ask, for which kernel.
asciilifeform: what would you like to know, veen ?
veen: consider a kernel patch to bypass /dev/*random insanity with say "just open and read such-and-such file which i trust has acceptably random bytes in it"
asciilifeform: veen: file ? you gonna store the position somewhere ?
veen: linux, or BSD?
veen: by way of example, imagine /dev/random is just an alias for e.g. /dev/fuckgoats
asciilifeform: let's suppose you trip over the cable. for sake of argument -- what then
veen: it blocks
asciilifeform: or suppose you have -- as i recommend - three FUCKGOATSen.
veen: you would
veen: up to your fuckgoats hardward or driver, i suppose
asciilifeform: there's no driver, veen , it's a tty
veen: maybe i'm coming at this in completely the wrong way
asciilifeform: it plugs in through a ttl to usbuart plug
veen: sure sure, wavehands, whatever
veen: put it this way, i couldn't figure out how to generate a gpg keypair with fuckgoats, because gpg reads /dev/random, and i couldn't work out how to get fuckgoats (or any other file-like) shimmed in there
asciilifeform: my point is, sane proggy oughta know how to eat multiple /dev/ttyUSB0, /dev/ttyUSB1, ... however many, correctly.
asciilifeform: and there is no reason for it to happen in the kernel .
asciilifeform: i would say 'replace /dev/random in gpg source with /dev/fg and build' but the rng in gpg is monumentally retarded and i disrecommend its use entirely
veen: be that as it may, we don't inhabit a world of sane programs
asciilifeform: veen: have patience, i have only 2 hands
veen: great, but gpg is only one of n programs on my system that need good random numbers, and i don't care to recompile them all
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 19:28 mircea_popescu: how's that coming along ?
asciilifeform: veen: rng in gpg has serious problems , on top of using /dev/random
veen: oh it runs output of /dev/random through it's own ('cs')prng?
veen: fun
trinque: just to entertain the thing, since dev's this fancy udev thing now, could have some udev rule to delete /dev/random and plop another device node in its place, via symlink or w/e
asciilifeform: theoretically.
asciilifeform: there are some nuances though.
asciilifeform: you MUST kill flow control
asciilifeform: or the tty will LOSE CONTROL CHARS !!!!
asciilifeform: i.e. NOT emit flat spectrum of octets 0x00 - 0xFF !!!!!!
asciilifeform: because unix is retarded
asciilifeform: and this exists.
asciilifeform: the requisite necks for it to unexist, have not yet been broken.
asciilifeform: you also MUST have some means for not attempting to cryptoate if the device for whatever reason is not functioning.
asciilifeform: (there is a red alarm lamp on the pcb to alert in case of analogue rng failure, but it is theoretically possible for the circuit to break outside of FUCKGOATS proper)
veen: wait, what in the loop cares about control chars?
asciilifeform: veen: linux, by default. because it was dropped as a baby.
asciilifeform: loses, e.g., 0x03.
veen: i'm imagining arch like: device -> udev fuckery -> prog reading /dev/random
veen: where's the problem?
veen: unless i'm grossly misunderstanding the sematics, reading /dev/random for infinity should produce dat sweet flat spectrum, right?
asciilifeform: stty -ixon
asciilifeform: rather, stty -ixon /dev/yourfg
veen: specific to tty devices no?
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: on a unixline, FUCKGOATS shows up as a modem.
asciilifeform: this is deliberate, the os has no business knowing what it is.
asciilifeform: or how many you have.
asciilifeform: !#s specificity
a111: 60 results for "specificity",
veen: asciilifeform: what are known-good, currently-doable usecases for FUCKGOATS
asciilifeform: veen: there's the one you described (conventional gpg with string '/dev/random' ripped out and replaced with the correct) ;
asciilifeform: there are also others ( e.g., generating onetimepads; or in general input for any proggy that sanely eats input )
asciilifeform: there is (not yet released) 'p', mentioned in earlier thread today, which will eat from 1 or more FGs
asciilifeform: which behaves sanely, eats from wherever you want
asciilifeform: you can also feed, e.g., monte carlo algos, from it
veen: my reasoning is that if the semantics of /dev/random is that, taken over infinity, it emits flat spectrum of octects, and lots of binaries in the wild have that assumption baked it, why not coax kernel into allowing FUCKGOATS to fulfill the contract of /dev/random directly?
asciilifeform: veen: specificity-of-diddling. by using one centralized entropy pool that the os knows about, you make enemy's work slightly easier.
asciilifeform: which is why /dev/random was a terrifyingly bad idea from day 1./
veen: well, a paternalistic idea if nothing else
mircea_popescu: << the importance of this can't be understated. if f(x) = 4 it matters VERY little what 'rng" you feed f.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-24 01:40 veen: oh it runs output of /dev/random through it's own ('cs')prng?
veen: not sure that recompiling gpg to read from /dev/fg really frustrates enemy all that much
mircea_popescu: and gpg is not very far off this ; neither are ALL usg produced programs you are running.
mircea_popescu: so, you may not ~care~ to compile them all ; but whether you are interested in war or not -- war is interested in you.
veen: importance of what specifically?
veen: seems gpg tried to sovereignty-wash a source of entropy and here it is bearing your criticism anyway
veen: how is /dev/fg not centralized entropy pool?
asciilifeform: veen: i, for instance, am sitting in front of a box with 11 hardware ttys
mircea_popescu: review the thread re centralization recently. it's centralized at the sane place.
asciilifeform: which ones are FGs
asciilifeform: takes actual work to determine
asciilifeform: and the work is 100% unique to the setup, which is not known in advance to anyone
asciilifeform: as opposed to 'just break /dev/random'
veen: so you've got /dev/fg0 thru /dev/fg9
asciilifeform: i've got /dev/tty.....
asciilifeform: without seeing the rack, you don't know which ones -- if any -- are fg; and which one is my air conditioner; etc
veen: security through obscurity eh?
mircea_popescu: this concept gets abused a lot.
asciilifeform: veen: security through not conveniently labeling 'here i keep the crown jewels' in advance. it multiplies.
veen: aye
mircea_popescu: would you propose the usg "invisible fighter" program is "security through obscurity" ? because... it is.
asciilifeform: every bit in a private key is an 'obscurity' item.
mircea_popescu: cryptographical security is one thing ; operations security is another.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looks like we have another '20 minute block'
mircea_popescu: because cryptography deals with absrtacts only, the kerckhoffs standard makes sense. but whenever items with an associated mass are involved, things change.
veen: to explain my reasoning by way of donning my engineering hat, i saw an existing contract of the form "noise comes out here" and a deficit default implementation, and proposed a better impl
mircea_popescu: it's not clear how your proposal was an implementation, or better. delve please.
veen: but it sounds like the sentitment here is using a well-known noise fountain is a vulnerable one
veen: proposal != implementation, obviously
mircea_popescu: actually, the sentiment here is that ~all usg code is just reused scraps of the same stale old crap. this sentiment is fed by you know, us having cut up the usg toys numerous times and having run into the same bits.
veen: proposal is replace output of linux csprng-crazy that underlies /dev/random with the output of FUCKGOATS
mircea_popescu: that sameness allows the enemy some levers it needn't have, first of all in its own safety's sake.
mircea_popescu: veen ok. how is it better ?
veen: surely we all agree that linux-csprng < FUCKGOATS
mircea_popescu: yes. but if you then turn around and feed that into userland shitprng, you've not impoved anything.
veen: what is at issue at this point is use of /dev/random at all, regardless of how it is implemented
mircea_popescu: well the only argument pro i'm aware of is "it's there already"
veen: and widely depended upon
asciilifeform: iirc argument was ' i dun wanna recompile gpg '
mircea_popescu: so it may make sense as a convenience thing to symlink it to your fuckgoats tty. but don't expect you've now thereby fixed the system
veen: userland shitprng is a wrinkle indeed, one i wasn't aware of until this thread
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stronger argument than it seems. leaving aside the static issue, it's not even a given gpg compiles at all.
veen: by that token s/\/dev\/random/\/dev\/fg/g again gpg src doesn't help us either
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had half a dozen people here repeatedly build gpg-1.4.10 back in august, recall
mircea_popescu: lol he escaped the slashes, isn't he adorable :D
asciilifeform: during the great wild goose chase.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on his system ?
asciilifeform: on various junk
mircea_popescu: yes but.
mircea_popescu: listen to the words of he who suffers this weekly with eulora.
veen: sounds like solution for gpg is rip out `char shitprng();` implementation and replace it with one that calls a trusted noise source
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: the only thing is that gpg is already obsoleted becauyse of its inane fingerprinting scheme
mircea_popescu: so it's getting replaced altogether.
veen: is this new as of the SHA1 nooze yesterday?
mircea_popescu: yeah, see teh log.
veen: oh i saw it
mircea_popescu: a ok. that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: holy fuck, 454403 14 minutes (and counting) on dulap; verified on zoolag in 15 seconds
veen: << beside, mircea_popescu said it first
a111: Logged on 2017-02-03 15:52 mircea_popescu: we should prolly publish a kernel patch
asciilifeform: veen: it isn't that it is a catastrophically bad idea, compared to what is currently on your box -- rather, it is an example of something you do not want to cement in long-term use
mircea_popescu: it's not a bad idea at all ; it's just not a (complete) solution.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ONLY NOW verified 454403!
asciilifeform: ^brain-melting
mircea_popescu: it's worth keeping a farm of vartious nodes just to watcdh them struggle with the chain. pretty interersting data.
asciilifeform: i have this duo, scrolling on opposite lcds
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 23:52 asciilifeform: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) A Recipe for the use of Wires via SSH Tunnels.
veen: i suspect we'll never reconcile the "must build snow-flake" paranoia with drive to make architecture which can be reasoned about
mircea_popescu: the what now ?
asciilifeform: veen: snow flake ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-24 02:15 asciilifeform: without seeing the rack, you don't know which ones -- if any -- are fg; and which one is my air conditioner; etc
mircea_popescu: i confess i have nfi what you're talking about.
veen: forget it, it's a low value point i've already attempted to make
asciilifeform: veen: let's try a historical angle. according to legend, emperor qin shi huangdi (same d00d as known for taking the 'immortality pill' and promptly croaking) had a palace with 1,500 rooms. and would not tell anyone in advance which one he plans to sleep in on a given night. and which ones he would put cutthroats in, ready to kill anyone who opens door. think 'minesweeper.'
mircea_popescu: what i'm more interested in is this apparent limit on "what can be thought about" based on some sort of i'm not even sure what. is it the case that i can't think about women now ?
asciilifeform: the emperor is the earliest, known to me, inventor of 'specificity of diddling' lemma. see logs, very informative.
veen: bbl
asciilifeform: also has typo! and nobody noticed!!1 chown oughta be, of course, chmod.
mircea_popescu: !negrate asciilifeform typos.
asciilifeform: aha, i oughta not've used my anal handz!!1!
asciilifeform: oughta use front hands.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: the 'anti-selfconnect nonce' in bitcoin, never worked
asciilifeform: my wired nodes still find each other via addr.dat and open ~second~, plaintext tcp pipe...
asciilifeform: and happily chat on it, like cat talks to mirror
asciilifeform: this is solvable via iptables, but uggly
asciilifeform: probably we want a flag.
asciilifeform: (to clarify: nonce prevents ~only~ self-talking, but not external dupes)
asciilifeform: also mircea_popescu the 'node as paid service' thing now can actually exist.
asciilifeform: in principle.
asciilifeform: turns out, i just built it.
asciilifeform: (any takers..?)
mircea_popescu: rent out ssh pipes ?
mircea_popescu: yeah not bad.
asciilifeform: ultimately i'ma tear down the tunneltron and replace with 'g'. but same idea, topologically.
asciilifeform: unbitflippable direct pipe to large trb node.
asciilifeform: lulzily enough, back in.. 2013..? mircea_popescu described how Serious Folx, incl. miners, already do this.
mircea_popescu: why's that lulzy
asciilifeform: because only now exists in a public proggy.
asciilifeform: can't help but wonder how much, or little, theirs resembles mine. just as brits wondered how much nazi 'freya' radar, resembled brit radar
asciilifeform: (spoiler: was a mega-downer)
asciilifeform: iirc mpb also had something equiv. to 'wire'.
mircea_popescu: yes ; but doesn't use sshtunnel. more vpn-ish sort of architecture.
asciilifeform: wire is agnostic of tunnelator.
asciilifeform: it was made for 'g', the ssh thing is temporary.
asciilifeform: the essential thing is nondisconnectable nodes.
asciilifeform: (stock trb will happily drop ~anyone~ on the floor, for dozen different reasons, incl. 'we used him for too long')
asciilifeform: << vx, claimed. was my suspicion also. chick prolly fed , e.g., pralidoxime, ahead of doing the deed.
asciilifeform: ( or butyrylcholinesterase, or one of the other lulzies asciilifeform worked on when slaving for usg )
mircea_popescu: i dunno, nerve agents are usually irritant.
asciilifeform: nope, not vx
asciilifeform: it is a liquid, similar to motor oil, at room temp
mod6: <+asciilifeform> [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) A Recipe for the use of Wires via SSHITunnels. << cool! thanks alf.
mircea_popescu: i suppose.
asciilifeform: yw mod6
asciilifeform: btw i find it strange that the local orc docs did not notice classical picture of organophosphate poison
asciilifeform: (pupils the size of pinholes, etc)
mircea_popescu: i dunno that guy who got splashed vx would go around complaining that hey, i got splashed ten minutes ago.
asciilifeform: in asia it is common suicide method (not, granted, with vx! but with weaker commercial pesticides)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he would, if it were dilute / in dmso.
mircea_popescu: also, the russians would have probably ventilated their guy into ~survival.
asciilifeform: complicated. pediwikia lies, paralysis of breath is not the only problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the administration route is terrible, how the fuck do you dose the ingestion through splashing.
asciilifeform: permanent cns rot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's as braindamaged as northkr's linux distro. but seems like worked!
asciilifeform: i could even picture that the original plan included offering d00d antidote, if he comes along..
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1453...7459 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1591...6403 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1372...0663 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( US VA)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1718...3643 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( US VA)
lobbes: << btw, thank you for this, alf. I will be embarking on my own gentoo quest soon to finally stand up a trb node
a111: Logged on 2016-03-03 17:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << preliminary crib sheet
asciilifeform: neato, lobbes !
asciilifeform: ^ only 4 aws keyz popped previously !
asciilifeform: the classical diddled debian, afaik, never coexisted with aws.
asciilifeform: so potentially interesting wtf.
asciilifeform: !$ ssh
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9
asciilifeform: go figure.
mircea_popescu: will install wahtever
asciilifeform: shows a peculiar cartoon.
asciilifeform: (graphical wwwtron needed, noshit)
asciilifeform: 'Voigt & Schweitzer wünscht Frohe Weihnachten!'
asciilifeform: !$ ssh
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9
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