Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-27 | 2017-01-29 → ↓
BingoBoingo: "I had seen the moonwalk [not the pedophilic stage dance, but the actual walk on the Moon that orbits Planet Earth] recently and therefore believed in what was essentially magic."
phf: ty
ben_vulpes: it's not, sorry
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yes, drops action
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1Rjr
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
Reuel: is the game idea
Reuel: where do I find more about your Eulora suggestion?
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
Reuel: you suggested the Eulora text mode conversion, could you tell more about it
mircea_popescu: Reuel your description is badly phrased. for instance in the first paragraph : i encounter the symbol "the best outcome for their nation", but it's not defined nor obviously supported by the introduction. leaving aside that going from "x is defined" to "x is measurable in an algebraic group which permits ordering" which is what "best" implies -- your perspective is globalist and there's no fundamental solution for a national
mircea_popescu: perspective in that context.
mircea_popescu: to put it bluntly it's either that "people vote" or that "their nation". denied middle between these.
Reuel: yeah the introduction can be ignored, this was a work in progress which should become the manual
Reuel: That was more meant to set the tone, and the target audience would be people who vote irl
mircea_popescu: mkay lessee.
Reuel: I hope you can grasp the game cycle from this
mircea_popescu: A job influences what salary a player receives << where's the salary come from ?
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0B59B054AFCC24BEC878469289B2851D3BD422E6529BDCE3A552FD6FCDC1BC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1371...1903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.233.48.105 (ssh-rsa key from 210.233.48.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown JP)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0B59B054AFCC24BEC878469289B2851D3BD422E6529BDCE3A552FD6FCDC1BC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1660...8023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.233.48.105 (ssh-rsa key from 210.233.48.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown JP)
Reuel: payout at the start of the turn
mircea_popescu: but ~where~ does it come from ?
Reuel: socialist magic :)
mircea_popescu: you don't grasp the problem with this.
mircea_popescu: consider all the rest of your magic numbers. where does the one in "they can veto the outcome of one national ballot per round." come from ?
mircea_popescu: why is it not 0.984 or 1.1022 ? how do you knwo it isn't ?
Reuel: it;s a in game resource, like ehm... mana? where does it come from
mircea_popescu: "it's a supermarket item like frozen chickens, where do those come from"
mircea_popescu: just because a bunch of irrelevant games are utterly broken means jack. a) eulora isn't broken and will kill them ; and b) nobody wants to play them anyway
mircea_popescu: which is why and how they ended up the equivalent of stripper joints.
Reuel: hmm
diana_coman: Reuel, I suggest you read & a play eulora for a while - it will help you with this
Reuel: I did, and I get the idea, but this is way smaller in scope
Reuel: well youll probably tell me i dont get the idea
diana_coman: what idea do you say you get? (it seems quite likely you did not get it: scope has nothing to do with it)
mircea_popescu: what does size have to do with whether something works or doesn't ? a broken engine is broken at any scale.
Reuel: that nothing in the game is free
mircea_popescu: not exactly. the point is that ~everything's balanced~.
mircea_popescu: salaries come from a social negotiation, not from the fucking white house.
mircea_popescu: when they do come from the central planning committee the country's broken, and collapsing.
Reuel: Yes I agree, irl, but this would be a small time waster, are you saying that any game that gives you "free" resources is bad?
diana_coman: fwiw it sounds to me that Reuel precisely wants to implement the planning committee possibly as a fantasy where he thinks he can *make* it work
Reuel: lol no, but close
Reuel: I hoped to see it crash and burn
Reuel: haha
mircea_popescu: well, i dunno, this may be something you might enjoy but i have no advice about
mircea_popescu: not something i engage in / think about.
diana_coman: Reuel, unbalanced means broken; do you mean you want to implement something broken on purpose to then see then that it...breaks?
Reuel: I would say the meat of the game is in the intrigue around selecting laws that benefit groups or individuals
Reuel: the salaries. locations, jobs, are more of a setting
mircea_popescu: that usually works when there's a solid underlying reality.
Reuel: my idea was more in the sense that, democracy leads to corruption and gaming the system
mircea_popescu: yes but you need some sort of bounds for this to ripple back. otherwise it's just a free expanding system
mircea_popescu: tomorrow i vote to give myself more salary than your platform can support. i mean this literally, 1024! shall be my salary. what then ?
Reuel: well salries are set at the start, there is a national budget which is divided over all players, but certain laws can change the balance
mircea_popescu: "oh you won't be allowed to do that ?" "why not ?" "Ad hoc!" "congrats, you exported the job of designing your game to an os which was not designed to do this"
Reuel: but to get others to vote for laws that increase your groups salariy, you will probably have to either give something else up or promise to
mircea_popescu: how's "let's fuck the gameserver" as a promise ?
Reuel: good point
mircea_popescu: meta will kill you every time BECAUSE if your design is uncompelling people will btod.
diana_coman: Reuel, let me see if I get this straight: you want to implement a "small" scale model of democracy in order to test whether it works; at the same time, you propose to implement it on a model of reality that is purposefully broken because..."scope is too small for it to matter"?
Reuel: hmm, the model might be totally of but the reality of human interaction and bargaining is present, and grouping, deals, promises
Reuel: but yeah
diana_coman: ugh, and you don't see any problem with that?
Reuel: I see the concern, yeah
Reuel: However I do think it would be a game people would enjoy, maybe not bitcoin people though :)
Reuel: I agree the money coming in is like magic, it mirrors gibmedats a bit actually, lol
Reuel: Going to think on this
diana_coman: there will be some people who enjoy X for any X really, not sure what does that do
diana_coman: as to the trouble there: it's more than a concern - it invalidates your "test"
Reuel: In the end art is to make people feel, some art makes sophisticated people feel sophisticated things, some art makes simple people feel simple things, and I guess as a starting artist, Im not that picky yet
Reuel: The democracy thing is not the main goal, just a funny side thought
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: get your pgp key registered
Reuel: yeah I will
Reuel: going to cook
Reuel: thanks for the feedback
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D6A34EB13C1B4D0AF4824E1F1D336C0690F0D9AF5B060E80C6620F506DFCF2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1507...4297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.22.15.251 (ssh-rsa key from 201.22.15.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (201.22.15.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR PR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D6A34EB13C1B4D0AF4824E1F1D336C0690F0D9AF5B060E80C6620F506DFCF2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1789...8077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.22.15.251 (ssh-rsa key from 201.22.15.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (201.22.15.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR PR)
asciilifeform: in yet-other recent hannobocks, http://archive.is/wqu4J >> 'A coalition of some of the globe’s top researchers and cryptographers are pleading with The Guardian to retract a story it published last week in which it suggested the encrypted messaging app WhatsApp contained a backdoor.'
asciilifeform: coalition!
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: refuted!
asciilifeform: and of course closed-source-remotely-updated-turd-on-closed-remotely-updated-os-sitting-on-usg.ssl-pki is not 'backdoor', didjaknow also.
asciilifeform: '“The behavior described in your article is not a backdoor in WhatsApp. This is the overwhelming consensus of the cryptography and security community. It is also the collective opinion of the cryptography professionals whose names appear below. The behavior you highlight is a measured tradeoff that poses a remote threat in return for real benefits that help keep users secure…” the letter
asciilifeform: reads.'
asciilifeform: 'A long – and growing – list of respected cryptographers, including Matthew D. Green, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, Bruce Schneier, a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, and Matt Blaze, a professor ....'
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what ? consensus ?
asciilifeform: aha! konsensoooos!!
mircea_popescu: well, they're helpfully writing their names down, can't hurt/
asciilifeform: moar names inside.
asciilifeform: and all of them incidentally part of ye olde rogue's gallery of 'security community'
asciilifeform: unfailingly appear every time.
mircea_popescu: respected by who the fuck anyway.
mircea_popescu: "respected" "trusted". why ? "because we say so" "but you only say so so as to have said so" "exactly"
asciilifeform: in related lelz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aDb8c/?raw=true >> d00d who kept massive shed stuffed full of s33kr1tz while working in nsa for 20y denied bail
asciilifeform: some comedic arguments on both sides of the court
mircea_popescu: dun tell me he's an imminent danger
asciilifeform: 'flight risk'
asciilifeform: and 'could have hidden goodz somewhere'
asciilifeform: 'So, when Mr. Wyda noted that the Court has already ruled, I'm ruling in accordance with the Bail Reform Act and the fact that the Government has not indicted under more serious offenses. So I am limited by what I can make a determination, and here, I'm limited on the issue of risk of flight. I've listened to both sides carefully, and I think that Mr. Wyda has made some very persuasive arguments.
asciilifeform: No investigation is perfect, and no seizure of evidence is perfect, and there is always this feeling on the Government's side of maybe they've missed something, or maybe they haven't
asciilifeform: gotten all of the information.
mircea_popescu: this is going to be so painful on internal review
asciilifeform: how is it that anyone gets 'bail' in usa again..? ain't there ~always~ 'maybe they haven't gotten everything' ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think bail is intended to exist anymore.
asciilifeform: btw in case anyone forgot: the d00d was arrested right after the rootkit leak. quite likely brass knew about his shed for years, and finally needed scapegoat, and flushed him.
mircea_popescu: the "holds in pocket keys to own cell" doctrine (that, if you recall, superseded habeas corpus in the us "legal" system) has meanwhile pushed through and it's "plea bargain!"
asciilifeform: torquemada alive an' well in usa, aha.
asciilifeform: '...the nature and seriousness of the danger to any person in the community that will be posed by the release, it's clear that the Government sort of paints the Defendant as a walking encyclopedia of classified information. I don't know if that's completely correct, but I do know that he had access to all of this information, and I credit him, and I certainly am glad we're not sitting here talking
asciilifeform: about dissemination of information to foreign powers. But, at the same time, he is a serious risk to the public.'
asciilifeform: risk to the public! didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: how exactly
mircea_popescu: this bizarre nonsense where it's enough to state something
mircea_popescu: what is this, an ivy league "college" ?
asciilifeform: it's a usg court.
asciilifeform: all entirely same thing.
asciilifeform: and 'ivy league college' is where they make the freislers for said courts.
mircea_popescu: pretty sad display in any case.
asciilifeform: btw it'll be a lulzfest if one of these 'shed hoarders' turns out to have deadman switch.
asciilifeform: (prosecution) '...if he ends up in the hands of foreign powers, whether or not it's with his consent, an ankle monitor is not going to prevent him from going down the road and ending up in territory that we can't recover him from.'
asciilifeform: then defense : (approx) 'this applies to everyone in this court room who saw the evidence'
asciilifeform: judge (approx) 'but this man is lawbreaker and we are not'
mircea_popescu: awww, there's territory outside of the territory ?
mircea_popescu: i never knew.
asciilifeform: only exists for this purpose.
asciilifeform: (and certainly not for, e.g., 'oh we won't send cut-throats to nail or kidnap undesirables there')
mircea_popescu: so then the tax is not a tax eh ?
mircea_popescu: riveting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall a d00d called vasili mitrokhin ?
asciilifeform: lead archivist of 1st directorate of kgb. also made a shed full of goodies. but in his case, the shed made it through the border, with usg help.
asciilifeform: he got a pension out of it from the reich.
asciilifeform: lives in, iirc, england, writes trashy pulp b00kz.
asciilifeform: the 1 publicly known 'juicy' tidbit therein was that it contained coordinates for a number of 'buried treasure' arms chests.
asciilifeform: (incl. in usa.)
asciilifeform: plus the usual lists of stoolies.
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone seriously believes this dude's stuff is not already held by everyone interested in triplicate.
asciilifeform: there are always fresh 'whom to shoot' lists. but not at the bottom of dusty 20 yrs. of shed.
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
Reuel: !register 4E7B B257 827A 825B A79D 6602 796C D488 28DD 895A
Reuel: yeah :) thx
ben_vulpes: it's !!register <url-to-paste-of-pubkey>
deedbot: 4E7BB257827A825BA79D6602796CD48828DD895A registered as Reuel.
Reuel: !!down
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/us-activist-news-aggregator-begins-celebrating-political-violence/ << Qntra - US Activist "News Aggregator" Begins Celebrating Political Violence
mircea_popescu: !!rate Reuel 1 new blood
mircea_popescu: Reuel try nao.
mircea_popescu: there you go.
Reuel: ah right was using the OTP for rating me
Reuel: cool
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: any thoughts on rustoleum spray on rubber/"plastidip" to slow down metastasization/rusting of body panel gouge?
Reuel: Not sure whether I missed some more talk earlier, disconnected a few times, but I'll read up in the logs. Going to mull over the no free money thing a bit.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: rust is cancer, but sealing it with paint may slow progesion. prolly safer to stick to "rustoleum" paint over a plastidip/rubberseal product
Reuel: mircea_popescu is there a spec for the bot you mentioned
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Paint. Thin layer of pigment in binder.
mircea_popescu: which bot ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/shinohais-saturday-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-again-tor-21-and-buttfunex/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Saturday Shitcoin Roundup Xtend Again: Tor, 21, and Buttfunex
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: If your mission is stopping rust what you want is to seal the area against air and moisture. A thin layer of oil based paint does this. A think rubber or plastic glop is more likely to break its seal because soft. If thin paint breaks seal it should be noticable.
ben_vulpes: goals are twofold: prevent further paint degradation and as much rust as possible now that the skin is broken
BingoBoingo: Well, auto painting is not my forte
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The cold truth you must confront is that the body panel is without any doubt doomed. Everything from this point forward is merely stalling the inevitable victory of oxidation.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-28 21:49 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: any thoughts on rustoleum spray on rubber/"plastidip" to slow down metastasization/rusting of body panel gouge?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Then there's ruined pain on doomed body panel.
BingoBoingo: *paint
BingoBoingo: There are many things in this world where rust removal and remediation are possible. The steel of American cars is not one of them.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: eh i'm aware
mircea_popescu: and in further romanian traditional "fuck everyone's words" : "beata lei" is the typical italian "good for you". in romanian, "biata de ea", poor her.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1C726DFD55110F3D5FA1C0D828561173E8B2C40CACE495D9BE9E28C78119812B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1772...9099 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.193.92.126 (ssh-rsa key from 213.193.92.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (213-193-92-126.static.cablecom.ch. CH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1C726DFD55110F3D5FA1C0D828561173E8B2C40CACE495D9BE9E28C78119812B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1590...8969 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.193.92.126 (ssh-rsa key from 213.193.92.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (213-193-92-126.static.cablecom.ch. CH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9A6FB09F2B1FF03D18F4D2D568CE197919DAE34DEA6357F5A5F2D9C8F335677 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1389...8307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '130.251.188.1 (ssh-rsa key from 130.251.188.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (security.fisica.unige.it. IT GE 42)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9A6FB09F2B1FF03D18F4D2D568CE197919DAE34DEA6357F5A5F2D9C8F335677 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1474...9259 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '130.251.188.1 (ssh-rsa key from 130.251.188.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (security.fisica.unige.it. IT GE 42)
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