asciilifeformagriculturalsupremacyspykedtrilema
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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/hustle-flow/ << Trilema - Hustle & Flow
mircea_popescu: in which we discover that http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-01-01 works and http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-04-01 works but http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-11-01 doesn't.
mircea_popescu: o check it out, apparently there's even an acronym for it! NEET. gotta remember this.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/Xhekv << inexplicably, they also vote.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : foa&mounk study reveals barely 30% of people born 1980 believe it's essential to live in a country that is governed democratically.
mircea_popescu: figure is ~45% in the eu.
mircea_popescu: that's something like half a billion white people unimpressed with this whole "modern democracy" bullshit.
shinohai: !~tits
jhvh1: ( . Y . ) http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ( . Y . )
shinohai: http://archive.is/xhFEq <<< Should at any point in the future Ms. Clair come here to claim that bounty, I will personally match mircea_popescu 's stated offer.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565225 << ru writer pelevin has a thing about Dog Pizdetc, which in his world is a kind of diety, but pizdetc is a russian mat word derived from "pizda" i.e. vagina, and is used to signify the totality of negative and positive experiences. sort of like "how's it going? -- total pizdetc", i.e. everything has utterly failed. or "look at that car go! -- piiizdeeetc", i.e. holly shit that's awesome. so in
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 01:12 BingoBoingo: No one can know what happens during the Great Again.
phf: pelevin's world the coming of the Dog Pizdetc is an eschatological event, when you're going to finally have "vsyo", a word which means both "everything" and "the end".
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565112 << "increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors" creation of the national police continues on schedule
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 00:09 Framedragger: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf
BingoBoingo: phf ty
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/W2D4A << qntra fodder ?
mircea_popescu: holy shit the insane pretzel logic of the progressive mind. so "voter suppression" is bad mmkay except how dare people show up to vote who don't live on "university" campuses or in other usg-aggitated ghettos! "demography is destiny" except of course when it ... "shouldn't be" ? voter opinion is sacrosanct and fundamentally true and good, except of course should it diverge from progressive idiocy. the electoral college system
mircea_popescu: is great and a bulwark of democracy, except of course it's really bad and barbaric and an anachronism as "we've always said" - and this literally changes from nov 7 to nov 8.
mircea_popescu: basically the whole "current" reduces to exactly "About a subjugated plain, among its desperate copies slain, the Progre stalks with hands on hips while drivel gushes from his lips." and all strictly because http://trilema.com/2016/white-racism/#selection-257.0-257.57
shinohai: freezing to death in a sudden packet storm
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol clair sheehan is really too old to rescue.
mircea_popescu: "demonstrators - blabla - FLOODED". you know, all 12 of them.
shinohai: hence why she should be impaled as a warning to the others
asciilifeform: who's that
mircea_popescu: "from new england to heartland cities like kansas city and along ther west coast" ie, we almost managed a coupla of these per state, especially if you're like us and can't actually say how many states there are.
mircea_popescu: (obama, incidentally, teh great scholar etc, is on the record having nfi how many states there are. because they don't learn that in kenyan jr high. and besides - he was on college on a nigger scholarship not an academic one.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform random chickie whose selfies are being used by random rag for clickbait.
mircea_popescu: "she wrote whatever on her forehead" "since when does anyone give a shit about her bulbous, oily forehead ?!?"
asciilifeform: link?
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ld0Lt << related lulpic
mircea_popescu: his link above. http://archive.is/xhFEq
asciilifeform: aaah
asciilifeform: dunno, i like this one. she has -- face.
mircea_popescu: your idea of a face is very heavily biased in favour of impudent imbecile.
asciilifeform: it is biased away from plastic slut, i suppose
mircea_popescu: i much favour the whore mask because it shows the important traits of humble adaptation which are much more valuable in a female than "intelligence" or whatever, "having a personality"
asciilifeform: yeah we had thread.
mircea_popescu: yes, it is, and i can't see how it's not detrimental.
mircea_popescu: o we did ? kay then.
asciilifeform: 'Five people were shot and injured in an area near the protest, but police said the shootings and the demonstration were unrelated.' << lel
mircea_popescu: (for the record - average crack whore sampled off us highway today is, in point of fact and as any sort of practical measure of intelligence will show - far above average "student" sampled off us campus.)
asciilifeform: i would pay to watch this experiment alive.
mircea_popescu: in due time we shall no doubt end up doing it.
mircea_popescu: but i bet you now and here - i can teach crack whore structuralist linguistics to the standard of defeating the average us college professor within weeks ; you will not be able to teach "student" to get out of rain / paper bag within year.
asciilifeform: one strange thing i noticed in the great writhing mass of student chix last night (there will be a larger one, supposedly, tonight, with mr t. in town!111 but i dunno if i can be arsed to go photohunt again) is the malnutrition
asciilifeform: they looked like 1930s (not yet '40s, no) ghetto folk
mircea_popescu: it's obvious, but not specific. at the same age, the same chick was malnourished in romania in the 90s, on the basis of a strict mineral-water-and-pufuleti diet.
mircea_popescu: 20something females self-starve as a cross-cultural phenomenon.
asciilifeform: i meant the old 20th c.-style malnutrition. they were a head shorter than the chix i remember from uni
mircea_popescu: (pufuleti = https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=pufuleti&client=ubuntu&hs=t4s&channel=fs&tbm=isch )
asciilifeform: crowd was palpably different than, e.g., iraq protest of '03, where i also watched
mircea_popescu: ah. that's prolly mostly bad genes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/sXQIj << possibly moar qntra
mircea_popescu: "Chicago resident Michael Burke said he believes the president-elect will "divide the country and stir up hatred." He added there was a constitutional duty not to accept that outcome." << more of the same pretzel. "we have been pouring armed monkeys from the border for years - rhodesian govt has been trying to maintain order WHICH IS RACISM"
mircea_popescu: somehow this makes sense to them. "HE WILL BE DIVISIVE". it's like listening to stupid overentitled housewives argue domestically.
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. much like in romania a decade ago, much like in argentina three years ago, the ACTUAL turnover at these "massive" protests where the entrenched "progressive" niggerdom was supposed to pour its heart, soul and mostly spleen are shockingly underwhelming.
asciilifeform: btw i dunno if this was obvious from the pic, but the thing in dc was Officially sanctioned, there were police cars to herd traffic away, etc
mircea_popescu: for flavour, right after macri was elected the peronistas (you know, the idiots with the http://trilema.com/2015/marcha-de-las-dumbas/ ) threatened for weeks to throw a huge protest rally. in the end the government mobilized more troops than the actual protestor count and because of it macri showed them the bill for the "manifestation" and politely asked them to refrain because the money to pay for the police's coming straigh
mircea_popescu: t out of entitlement programs./
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: word. there were like 3.5-5k police in the street, like 1.5-2k "protestors" of the most copacetic, "someone paid me 100 pesos and bussed me in to be here and what is this?" countryside yokel ylk.
asciilifeform: 'protest' in dc is a very 'argentine' thing, there are 'pros' who show up to ~every~ one, with same props even, ~weekly
mircea_popescu: aha. that was the problem here exactly - they couldn't even get all the pros to show up. unoficially it was like... dude, you got -500 people in the street wtf.
asciilifeform: this one was actually unusual for the handwritten pickets
asciilifeform: normally they are preprinted and quite tedious
asciilifeform: 'free palestine'
mircea_popescu: and hence the logic - policeman costs about 15x what your "protesters" cost, wtf is with the wastage you're ddosing the interior affairs ministry.
mircea_popescu: PeterL centralized police force is not avoidable, but i daresay this is a failure of the population not so much of the government.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565372 << in progre pidgin, 'divisive' == 'will stir up the folx who oughta be shutting up and sucking, and showing up to construction site, and enlisting to die for some fat chick's right to marry her dog'
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 14:53 mircea_popescu: somehow this makes sense to them. "HE WILL BE DIVISIVE". it's like listening to stupid overentitled housewives argue domestically.
mircea_popescu: the problem being that i couldn't give less of a shit what progretalk means in progreterms.
shinohai: https://twitter.com/bitstein/status/792030686253309952
asciilifeform: in ~human~ terms it dun mean much. go and try to translate the barely-audible chitter of weevils.
mircea_popescu: that's the major point all the wanna-be mini-lacans fail to comprehend. "oh, we'll pick a set of presumptions, construct a language, and make up intricate literature in it!" "nobody cares." "huh ?" "you don't get to say, "hey, consider THIS premise"." "why not ?" "because you're not cool enough."
mircea_popescu: somehow the basic "first, the tank divisions ; THEN the new words / definitions" failed to connect with their heads.
mircea_popescu: and dorks a la curtis yarvin & friends go around dribbling "hey, since they're behaving AS IF they had the division, therefore they have them yes ?" as fucking if.
asciilifeform: there were no tank divisions, but there ~were~ molotov-thrower divisions. in '60s, when they hijacked what was left of usa university system to push 'studies' etc
asciilifeform: it was a quite overt surrender of territory, the idiot rulers of the time saw it as 'temporary' strategic retreat
mircea_popescu: much like "jewish" being hijacked by some alt-alt-neoprotestants from fucking ohio. all the actual jews ie hasids being dead.
mircea_popescu: so now "being jewish" is yet another flavour or three of being you know, southern emo preacher / martin luther king is luther 2.0 sorta nonsense.
asciilifeform: see also 'freedom riders'
asciilifeform: (largely j00z, but for some reason this got 'un-facted' )
mircea_popescu: the whole body of americana actually needs a #NotAThing cold-pressed on each sentece.
asciilifeform: also the hypothesis that these were 'faux j00z' and the real ones - all killed in warsaw -- does not stand. the folx calling for boycott of germany in '30s, etc., were grandparents of 'freedom riders', and great-grandparents of the chix i was 'protesting' with last night.
mircea_popescu: yes, and condemned by people like the previously mentioned satmar.
asciilifeform: i have 0 idea what any of these people were smoking.
mircea_popescu: who you know - actually fucking lived in satu mare.
mircea_popescu: they were smoking a big fat joint of wanna-be.
asciilifeform: idiot fritzes bulldozed satmar, warsaw, whichever, i suppose because america is far.
asciilifeform: 'you crack the skulls you can crack, not the skulls you wish you could crack' or what did bush say.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565318 << code assumed that there's always more then 200 top posters, fixed now
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 05:59 mircea_popescu: in which we discover that http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-01-01 works and http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-04-01 works but http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-11-01 doesn't.
mircea_popescu: the relationship essentialized to a brincusian level is like this : there was an adult, and quite fetching jewish body living outside the pale. which is not just poland, even if by poland you mean the lithuanian-polish commonwealth, ie a historical state larger than russia in all respects. aside from this, across the ocean was an acneic fat 12yo girl some cadet branch had with an irish "handsome rover from town to town" blabl
mircea_popescu: a.
mircea_popescu: the fatass really really wanted to be you know, IN IT! and so she "helped"
mircea_popescu: in the exact unwelcome manner a 12 half-sister would help the adult beauty get laid.
mircea_popescu: phf teh magic numbers you know :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean -- living ~inside~ the pale ?
mircea_popescu: no, outside.
mircea_popescu: the pale is east of warsaw west of moscow.
asciilifeform: incidentally the cross-ocean folx were largely in the 1890-1910 wave, from belorussia and elsewhere, pushed by pobedonostsev's famous 'rule of thirds'
mircea_popescu: those got eaten by wolves.
asciilifeform: ('1/3 will convert, 1/3 -- emigrate, 1/3 - will starve')
mircea_popescu: you know, like the first boston.
asciilifeform: (from some first-hand familiarity) it is not clear to me that they were in any sense eaten, they are still here. marching round with picket signs , e.g., 'PROTECT MY [picture of cat] FROM TRUMP'
asciilifeform: i was stumped, but pet explained 'pussy'
mircea_popescu: my point being that the fat, obnoxious 12 yo girl is related, but not substantially, to the hottie.
asciilifeform: deculturated -- yes
mircea_popescu: they were eaten by wolves, ie, they lost character and became a sort of yankees.
asciilifeform: genealogically - same exact folx.
mircea_popescu: im not terribly interested in the genetic aspect.
asciilifeform: hey it's a handy 'who's who', in much the same way as one learns, working in usg laboratory dungeons for years, to tell all of the east asian folk apart from across hallway before even hello.
mircea_popescu: no argument. nevertheless, retarded kid telling you "he has azn ancestry" in english, the sole language he speaks has no azn ancestry. as ballas aptly points out, in an article which can anyone plox link ?
asciilifeform: eh wasn't that elliot r. whoever ?
mircea_popescu: nah
mircea_popescu: that schmuck thought he was you know, british royalty.
asciilifeform: and yes usa is where europe et al dumps folx to get deculturated and 'eaten by wolves' and converted to 'modern demoocracy' participants.
asciilifeform: it is actually a mega-argument for mircea_popescu's despised 'blood and soil', folx separated from their natural habitat end up as.. this
mircea_popescu: i don't necessarily despise it ; i am however unconvinced. moreover, while examples with your tendency certainly exist - examples of the contrary tendency also do exist (eg, romanians-abroad are far the fuck better than romanians-within, and always have been).
asciilifeform: the j00z, pulled out of their shtetl planet, end up heiling clitler, etc.
mircea_popescu: this is altogether dubious. but maybe.
mircea_popescu: obviousy a life without hardship is a life of decay. past that general - i dunno.
asciilifeform: 1st gen. foreigners 'built' usa
asciilifeform: tesla, sikorsky, etc., 1,001 faces.
asciilifeform: 2nd gen - sinks into the swamp.
mircea_popescu: the thing ex-lithuania did for the jews wasn't "the soil" nor blood in the general understanding. it was simply http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-08#1563952
a111: Logged on 2016-11-08 13:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-08#1563912 << anything where half or more of the hopefuls fail to make it in, AND half or more of the first year fails to pass into 2nd. it must be selective in this sense, with an understanding that most extant fenotypes are biological failures of no further interest or value.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing specific about the soil ; and the meaning of "blood" is - spill the blood of the children.
asciilifeform: it isn't any magical trace nutrient in the earth, per se, but the 'you live in this here duchy and dun mix with randos'
mircea_popescu: no, it's not that. it's simply - if out of 100 newborn male babies 50 make it to be 7 ; and then 25 of those make it to be 14 and then a dozen make it to 21, you will have a splendid culture, civilisation, and generally world.
mircea_popescu: otherwise - not.
mircea_popescu: spill the blood of the children, or go to hell.
asciilifeform: historic j00z handled this in slightly nonstandard way -- culled males were driven out to convert
mircea_popescu: look at it from the historical perspective : music was invented in babylon to quell the wail ; because the males there had the wisdom to kill the boys - for "no reason" but did it. then the jews came along and put it in their book to not do sacrifice children - and so the dumb women flocked to them, and they birefly prevailed. only to go to shit in a handbasket soon thereafter, so much so the fucking short-legged short-dicked
mircea_popescu: lowbrow ROMANS of all fucking people conquered them. imagine this nonsense. and they even figured it out and put it in the holy texts, "god wants you to kill your boy!"
mircea_popescu: the british "blood and soil" implemented the wail-supression through the mechanism of sending all kids off to work for osmeone else, so the woman's dumb feelers wouldbn't be aroused by the foreign kids imported into household. and it worked, for as long as they stuck to it - and it immediately failed once they gave it up.
mircea_popescu: the REASON british empire fell has naught to do with anything else but the presence of arthur blair - that despicable fuckwit who pissed his bed. and his existence is due to the fact that he grew up with his mother's tit around.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in idish land, the wail was supressed through "oh honey, there's nothing io can do, those mean xenomen came and killed your baby"
mircea_popescu: "of course they killed all the ones i didn't bother to hide - and i didn't bother to hide them because they suck because you're a dumb worthless whore whose cunt runs on perl and consequently all manner of ungodly slime crawls out from between your legs"
mircea_popescu: but fortunately the 2nd part could also pass silently.
mircea_popescu: once no more "evil xenomen" to come and kill "teh babies", no more jewish anything either. which is why it failed in the states - no leverage to quell the wail, there.
mircea_popescu: to which related, http://trilema.com/house-of-strangers
mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/09/how_does_the_shutdown_relate_t.html << the tlp in question. "Why would she think this? Because she's stupid? Actually, yes: the culture you know least about has all the answers, which is also why the Guinness ad hypermale in pre-season Special Olympics has chosen to tattoo gigantic Chinese characters on his arm to explain his ennui to himself. "It's a chinese proverb, 'That what doesn'
mircea_popescu: t kill me make me stronger.'" I hope to God a bus tries to make you stronger."
asciilifeform: how did greeks implement wail-suppression system ?
mircea_popescu: in sparta, by gorgo's to quote : "Επειδή γαμώ την ράτσα σου". in athens, they did not as far as one knows.
PeterL: the refreshing thing about Trump (and would not have been with Hillary) is that now if the president does something stupid I can say "That was stupid" without everybody saying "Stop being RACIST"
mircea_popescu: you jsut say that because you're balding.
mircea_popescu: that epic feeling when the entire set google can produce for a greek excerpt is trilema. ha-HA!
asciilifeform: ^ this suggests typo
mircea_popescu: mno.
mircea_popescu: obviously, it can. but it can also suggest cultural superiority of a chilling depth.
asciilifeform: i imagine that, to modern english folk, 'sparta' is the next stage after 'madness'.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: for all physchopatologies, a frank view of the disease is quite exactly the next step after "madness".
asciilifeform: lel mr t apparently just landed in mordor.
mircea_popescu: it's vaguely regrettable no one with an old dogde pick-up ran. then he could have driven it all the way over to the wh and park it on the lawn.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo !
mircea_popescu: "Beauty is a social construction. I'm all in, but it is a construction nevertheless. The reason I think women are hot today is that they are today, not that they are hot. I watch pornos from the seventies and I think to myself, "well, it would be better than bestiality, I guess." Everyone from the cast of Shampoo to the special guest stars on The Love Boat make me want to be a promisekeeper, meanwhile Wilt Chamberlain ha
mircea_popescu: d sex with 10000 of these gorgons."
mircea_popescu: god this guy fucking rules.
PeterL: I used to drive an old dodge pick-up, was good sturdy truck. gave it up for a minivan when I got too many kids to fit in the cab.
mircea_popescu: PeterL if it wasn't obvious, the bald thing above was because trump has such a great piece.
PeterL: yeah, I got that.
PeterL: I would look alot like trump if I grew my hair out a bit
mircea_popescu: ha.
mircea_popescu: consider running after retirement, apparently that's all the rage nowadays.
PeterL: but I think my wife would leave me if I did my hair like his
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who was that, tlp ?
mircea_popescu: ayup.
asciilifeform: because i think i have that bit exactly flipped.
mircea_popescu: i live in this strange blessed state where i've not to date managed a hairdo teh womenz didn't like.
mircea_popescu: shaved head kept inch thick beard yest, "that's so hot!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's really no sense in "evolutionary" takes on individual sexual preference.
mircea_popescu: even collective - it's a fashion not some sort of biological thing.
asciilifeform: it is also substantial noise component.
mircea_popescu: moeover, there's an important distinction most people don't think of : if you've fucked under a few hundred women, one's "preference" doesn't exist as such ; they're discussing their ~projection~ of a preference, which isn't the same thing. not even remotely similar in fact.
asciilifeform: by that token, it is just as foolish to say that i would rather visit mars than venus, given as i have flown to 0 planets ?
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to say "between 1980 and 1990 i went to bed with 244 women of which 179 were blond, therefore i prefer blond women" ; it's quite another thing to say "when i dream up a dream girl, she's blonde".
asciilifeform: i also dun own a working time machine, but have very definite preferences of where to go in it, i suppose i must be idiot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the discussion there wasn't "i'd rather" but "i prefer". which things also aren't equal. i rather all sorts of things i don't prefer all the time, it's the key to sanity and male reproductive health.
asciilifeform: 'balanced diet' lel
mircea_popescu: also being idiot dun enter into any of this. two different things being two different things doesn't make you anything in particular.
asciilifeform: anyway, folks-sans-dirigible-have-no-preferences-just-illusions, etc., sure, we had thread.
asciilifeform: and dan mocsny actually had this in an old post.
mircea_popescu: i guess it could be thus reduced.
PeterL: for the lulz: http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/10/colleges-cancelled-exams-for-students-tr
mircea_popescu: god how i'd cancel their funding.
asciilifeform: even dirigible does not magic away the problem, it could even be that mircea_popescu would much more enjoy fucking ancient babylonian gurlz, whose training could take a week instead of a year, no 'gargauni' in the head to start with, but they are not available.
mircea_popescu: i actually have no problem fucking libertard.
mircea_popescu: this being another thing most (western) men never think about : a sexual preference for young women NECESSARILY connotes a sexual preference for fucking derps with mistaken notions about the world.
mircea_popescu: because where is there this wise 22yo woman ffs.
asciilifeform: hence the babylon example. picture chix with 0 hollywood exposure.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure this would help. i have a huge helping of "innocent barbarians" right here, and the obvious solution is for them to... first eat up 50 years of hollywood then we'll talk.
mircea_popescu: i have no use for americana, yes. but the only way 3rd world shitholes can become even vaguely digestibles is throuigh a lot of americana.
mircea_popescu: just like stone age man still has to do iron age, even if we're not doing iron age anymore.
asciilifeform: i dunno that there exist on planet3 'innocent barbarian'
mircea_popescu: or ever existed.
asciilifeform: they all grew in cultural vacuum created by sucking black hole of americana.
mircea_popescu: and before that it was british corrupting influence as per byron. and before that etc.
mircea_popescu: "cornell university students held a cry-in" ahahaha epic.
mircea_popescu: and so very adequate too.
asciilifeform: from same fishwrap, 'But post-election, there were a bunch of tweets from people saying they thought California should secede from the union, and so #CalExit became a thing to cover. Here's the thing about this particular secession movement—it is utterly oblivious to the ideological diversity within the state, thanks to the wholesale Democratic domination of the government due to population density in urban coastal communities. Cal
asciilifeform: ifornia is "blue" because electoral votes are an all-or-nothing thing. In reality, Donald Trump got about 3 million of the 9 million votes cast for president in California. Those votes for Trump don't matter, though. '
mircea_popescu: more importantly : how the fuck "calexit" being on twitter makes it "a thing to cover" ?
mircea_popescu: nobody asks this. who the fuck cares what is on twitter ? and what difference does twitter make ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-09#1564895 << see also
a111: Logged on 2016-11-09 20:30 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/1fqR8 << 'And it’s our duty and our responsibility as entrepreneurs, as citizens of the f—— world, to make sure that s— does not happen. '
mircea_popescu: to quote 2015 : http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-i-ended-up-suing-phoenix-nap-llc-on-how-ira-r-cadwells-mom-stephanies-going-to-lose-her-chula-vista-home-on-how-marcus-bohn-is-going-to-catch-a-lot-of-shit-for-that-on-assorted-othe/#selection-193.627-217.246
asciilifeform: how did that go btw ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose it was ok for the reddit hordes to not read that. because why ? and i suppose it was acceptable for college kids to NOT LEARN IT. since when is self-directed education a thing ? and why would it be ?
mircea_popescu: i say it, it's mandatory for them. nobody cares if they like it or not, or understand it or not. wtf is this, lalaland ?
asciilifeform: ( was there a trial ? )
mircea_popescu: a trial ?
asciilifeform: well yes, linked piece concerned suing some derp
mircea_popescu: ah. settled.
asciilifeform: lol neato
mircea_popescu: trials ftr, in commercial matter, are less than 0.1% of cases
asciilifeform: this we learn in kindergarten, yes, but i somehow pictured that mircea_popescu wanted to make a spectacle .
mircea_popescu: meh.
mircea_popescu: does it appear to you i'm in any kind of short supply ?
asciilifeform: i suppose -- not.
mircea_popescu: multe flori sunt, dar putine rod in lume au sa poarte ; toate bat la poarta vietii, dar se scrutur multe, moarte.
mircea_popescu: ie, there's flowers, of which few will carry fruit into the world ; they all knock on life's door, then most wither, dead.
mircea_popescu: also, for fairness/completeness : if you actually go to trial over a minor commercial case where a reasonable settlement offer is on the table (provided you somehow find a lawyer to do this which is not actually trivial) the judge will throw molotov cocktails at you.
asciilifeform: settlement is a poor punishment imho for the type of derp discussed in the piece
mircea_popescu: moreover, commercial litigation is bundled/sold/bought as so much negotiable paper. it's almost never the original parties that are involved, much like your 20 bux for a boxed cd set dun go to the artist.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure i agree even with that much.
asciilifeform: it's a midnight jailyard hanging, not public guillotine
mircea_popescu: consider you're running an isp. what do you do ?
asciilifeform: you might read mircea_popescu's piece and think 'aaah he never said how this ended, i am safe in my idiocy'
mircea_popescu: nono. let's go through this story because the republic's failure to create an isp is one of the largest stains on its cheek, so i'm sure the discussion will be instructive.
PeterL: from comments on link I posted a minute ago: "Any college receiving public funding - what college doesen't?- should have their funding immediately frozen if they don't take an immediate, corrective action." < seems commenters have the same idea as mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: you're making an isp. what do you do ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL too bad nobody is reading / has read trilema for the past however many years. hurr.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you rethink making isp, because isp is 'a castle'.
asciilifeform: unless you can figure out how to put it on mars.
mircea_popescu: uh. so i should punish random derp for ... living in where ? and if he wants to move i tell him to go where ?
asciilifeform: iirc the dispute concerned a derp who enforced a nonexistent dmca claim
mircea_popescu: moreover, you say money is not adequate punishment ? take me through the margins, explain this to me.
asciilifeform: collecting fine ~secretly~ is not a proper imho punishment.
asciilifeform: you punish offenders -- ~publicly~.
asciilifeform: that is, if the aim is 'educational', rather than simple pest control.
mircea_popescu: no, actually, it concerned an isp which, like any other isp, can't afford to actually pay a lawyer to read all the legalse spam being thrown their way. the guilty party here is the state of california, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524561
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 17:18 mircea_popescu: (short version : lawyer lobby added law on books that allows them to sue anything that doesn't have a warning label on ; there's 0 enforcement from anyone but the lawyer mafia ; and for that matter no penalty for mislabeling anything ; consequently all of california is today a huge sticker reading "this item is known to the state of california to cause cancer")
mircea_popescu: and going to trial in california is no sort of punishment of the state of california.
asciilifeform: ah then yes.
asciilifeform: this was not the implication in the original piece tho.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is going to be somehow able to charge enough for servers to pay some dude 150 an hour to read random crapolade copy/pasted by nobody on the internet ?
asciilifeform: (it was more of a 'liberast derp eagerly enforced nonexistent claim for personal lulz', approx)
mircea_popescu: (which is EXACTLY what happened, random canadian fraudster lied in an email. which you know - clinton is still not in jail for)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quotes ?
asciilifeform: oh hm, huesmann was not working for isp
asciilifeform goes, rereads.
mircea_popescu: nope, just another anodyne "social media" tard who really really thinks he can do things. and who - exact mirror of the trump situation - manages to hurt the people who credit him and no one else.
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack , isp in the traditional sense, as i understand it , is 'castle'
asciilifeform: i.e. glued to the fiatdom(s) in which it physically runs.
mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/03/shame.html << great read on this topic, btw. grep for "and the risk of sex addiction isn't that you contact a disease, it's that you spread the disease."
asciilifeform: ergo 'sane isp' reduces to 'sane bank'
mircea_popescu: exactly same issue with "progressive" pseudo-thought : the people they most hurt are the people who try to most help them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in a very theoretical principle, this. the mechanisms involved in the practical discussion, however, aren't nearly there. just simple cash starvation, "why is roach motel full of roaches!" "because you're paying $8 a night"
mircea_popescu: "why is there ddos ?" "did you want cheap internet or didn't you ?"
asciilifeform: this'd be more of a 'why does restaurant kitchen have mice, looksy, intel's fab floor doesn't' 'are you ready to pay $50,000 a gram for the potato?'
trinque: it sounds like asciilifeform is making a mercernaries vs soldiers distinction
mircea_popescu: something like that.
trinque: *mercenaries
mircea_popescu: trinque i had soldier isp back in the porn days (when it was "unacceptable" to the squares, but little going to jail over fucking girls in girly make-up to vomit was unthinkable).
asciilifeform: incidentally one major role of usgtronic 'dns' etc. is to make isp jurisdiction-hopping gnarlier.
asciilifeform: (if memorable-name-whateverthefuck manipulation took 3 milliseconds and cost 0, it would be trivial to move warez site as often as you like)
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/mKmWM incidentally.
mircea_popescu: imagine that dumb shit, "apologizing for offending the people of florida".
asciilifeform: they wanted, i guess, the kulak's hoard.
mircea_popescu: eh he had like, a house. barely middle class.
asciilifeform: nah, the bezzlars
mircea_popescu: coupla mil, whatever, nothing notable.
asciilifeform: conveniently denominated in non-sendable-to-binladen usd.
mircea_popescu: no, they just wanted max hardcore to apologize to the fuckwits. which is HOW this entire "cornell cry-in" thing got started
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: kulak is by definition not a global notable.
mircea_popescu: it's 10+ years in the making, and it was made out of dumb shit like this originally.
asciilifeform: just a neigbourhood envy magnet.
mircea_popescu: as if it makes the first whit of difference that someone's offended. pssshhh
mircea_popescu: !!up GustaveGold
deedbot: GustaveGold voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: and the "eh, THE COUNTRY" delusional notion one can live in the us is entirely fuelled by the 20+ years of max hardcore shooting his repugnant shit undisturbed.
GustaveGold: good evening
mircea_popescu: hello.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: any idea whether 'hardcore' did his entire time ? or was let go on appeal.
mircea_popescu: old man, i imagine what all other old men do.
GustaveGold: was reading the logs since a while and trilema itself
GustaveGold: am fascinated
GustaveGold: just wanted to get it live
mircea_popescu: i also imagine the girls are still paying him visits, incredibly enough i guess he was actually well liked by the talent (unlike much more "upstanding" producers for instance)
mircea_popescu: GustaveGold good for you, register your key.
GustaveGold: will do very soon, thank you
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik there are even today occasional trials of 'pornographers' in usa, these are normally bones thrown to 'christian' electorate.
asciilifeform: and now that you said it, it makes sense to me, the envy is of the harem, not the usd.
mircea_popescu: understand, up until that point he was periodically raided and the charges hung the jury / got dismissed. i use the 2005 govt raid / 2007 indictment to date the end of the vhs america in the practical sense - it went from larry flynt being the hero to paul little being the heel.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever saw any of his material ?
asciilifeform: dun think so
mircea_popescu: the typical max hardcore shot is, short woman who's a new face (unlike you know, stoya, distinctive pornstar, who everyone instantly recognizes) in garish 12 yo make-up (you know, the thick, deeply cloroed stuff they sell in gas stations in the south) saying she's 12, playing the dumb soubrette, being assfucked, fisted, spit on, drinking piss out of her own anus via intubation etc.
asciilifeform: yeah, haven't seen.
asciilifeform: did not until now even know about '12 makeup'.
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt average taxpayer could distinguish samples from actual outrageous abuse. which obviously in terms of artform is a compliment ; but in practical terms it's ever so dangerous.
asciilifeform: i do recall this being a prblem with that italian dude
asciilifeform: who filmed the 'impalement' scene
asciilifeform: with clever bicycle saddle
mircea_popescu: which makes paul little both notable and an artist, exactly in the way of say dali ; and unlike all the other dorks and philisitnes ever involved (yours truly included)
asciilifeform: he was put on trial for murder
asciilifeform: and had to march in the gurl to prove she had not been impaled..
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: recall his name ?
asciilifeform: it escapes me
mircea_popescu: do you mean http://trilema.com/2013/cannibal-holocaust/ ?
asciilifeform: yes!!
asciilifeform: it.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: scene was so influential might and magic vi - for blood and honor contains a reconstruction.
asciilifeform: modern folk do secretly long for ancient world, where the palette still had all of the colours
asciilifeform: and not idiot cga 4.
mircea_popescu: this is not unlike modern tgv traveler who longs for ancient train, where landscape was distinguishable not a blur. and you could spot foxes from the carriage.
mircea_popescu: well... do you want it to go fast or don't you ?
mircea_popescu: do you wish the power of the internets or don't you. etc.
asciilifeform: nobody said that all appetites were compatible with reality.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: and if today we were to make slave republic, the result won't be you know, this is the island of slave republic, mthat is the island of progressive empire, that is the etc.
mircea_popescu: no, the result will be a bunch of billions of idiots doing stupid shit to innocent women that happen to be around
mircea_popescu: ie, exactly like now.
asciilifeform: re the trains, i also recall reading of a similar dissatisfaction with 'modern' (sealed cabin) airplane, vs classic one
asciilifeform: 'it dun FEEL fast!111'
asciilifeform: mainly the fault of parallax, anyone who has sat in a passenger plane will notice the ground, when visible, moves so very slowly.
asciilifeform: but in old-fashioned death pod, 'fast!11'
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: (the other thing that moves very slowly in passenger ship is the queue at the 911port. but that is a more recent thing.)
mircea_popescu: also entirely bush-usg thing. has nothing to do with anything but the insanity.
asciilifeform: was quite same in, say, germany, last i was there
mircea_popescu: because coming-going to mordor.
asciilifeform: that'd be it.
mircea_popescu: go to istanbul sometime, for instance.
mircea_popescu: watch those people process > 1k travellers/minute ; watch yourself get through the single file immigrations queue within ~12 minutes, as a new airbus/boeing lands every OTHER minute dumping 500 more people behind you.
asciilifeform: it would not astonish me if after recent 'snackbar' event at their airport, it will begin to resemble baltimore's
mircea_popescu: i was not impressed with anything quote so much that year.
asciilifeform: to again revisit upstack, i would like to hear what mircea_popescu pictures would be a 'tmsr isp' .
asciilifeform: because as i understand subj, this circle ain't squarable.
asciilifeform: (for approx. same reason that there is not , at least in modern era, open, brazen, ru warez ftp; or even north kr warez.)
asciilifeform: in other lulz:
asciilifeform: '"If Ms. Rodham's not in the White House, that's okay — one of those girls is going to be,” she said. “We still have millions of nasty women who aren't going away.”'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/hBFcT >> 'President-Elect Donald Trump’s advisers are considering JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon for Treasury secretary, CNBC reported, citing two people familiar with the matter. Dimon isn’t interested, one of the people told CNBC.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform take bitbet for isntance. "we never kept logs" "no really we did" "fuck you. too late."
asciilifeform: upstream 'l3', 'at&t', etc. stoolies, keep whatever log they like.
mircea_popescu: and obviously. nobody is interested in civil service.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure.
asciilifeform: 'cuckoldtronic' isp as suggested not long ago by mircea_popescu , with the virii, is viable.
asciilifeform: traditional isp - meh
mircea_popescu: look, at issue is not whether you want to do it or why. at issue is that much like opening a pizzeria, there is this thing called an isp.
asciilifeform: the part that isn't clear to me is how it can be simultaneously -- a) 'tmsr'-friendly b) not owned & operated by a meat sovereign
mircea_popescu: is your house ?
asciilifeform: it looks to me as moar of a coca plantation and narcosub shipyard than pizzeria.
asciilifeform: house isn't trying to serve 13333333337w4r3z by the petabyte, neh?
mircea_popescu: dude... your pretense is very fascinating in theory ; but in practice you somehow manage to make an unprincipled exception which apparently is entirely mysterious to you.
mircea_popescu: is your house ?
asciilifeform: house is unmolested because uninteresting.
mircea_popescu: how does your house both house you and also is not operated by a sovereign ?
asciilifeform: isp -- interesting. unless i vastly misunderstand what mircea_popescu meant by 'isp'.
mircea_popescu: nevermind that. HOW DOES YOUR HOUSE BOTH HOUSE YOU AND ETC.
asciilifeform straps on gas mask
mircea_popescu: "by me ignoring the matter". "fine. so ignore it for isp too."
mircea_popescu: no, do me a favour and take OFF the gas mask.
asciilifeform: it ignores, and gets blackholed, then you need new one
mircea_popescu: the one you keep on every day so you can carry on with the nonsense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ie exactly like your house ? hurr!
mircea_popescu: if you get kicked out... you'll need another one ?
mircea_popescu: it's a fascinating thing that you don't give up on housing on this (gabriel laddel does - and you don't realise he is for the reason better than you ON YOUR OWN TERMS) but do give up on computer hosting for this.
asciilifeform: 'spam isp' is an actual thing, they live, die. my (nonexpert) impression is that the business model is only barely +ev. sorta resembles (btc) mine.
mircea_popescu: because hey, the dick that's not up my ass this moment never existed or somesuch.
asciilifeform: and diogenes in turn beat the shit out of g. laddel..!1111
asciilifeform: and buddha, supposedly, even moar.
mircea_popescu: so then. your arbitrary line is at "i will have house but not isp". his line is at "i will not have house or isp".
mircea_popescu: mine happens to be at "i'll have house and isp and other things too."
mircea_popescu: purely arbitrary, there's no principled argument to be had here.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'd like to see 'tmsr isp' just as much as anyone. but the lack of berserkers willing to subsist on crumbs for ~0 ev, doing largely ~uninteresting and difficult chore, solely in the name of tmsr, is not mega-puzzle.
mircea_popescu: unlike everyone else.
mircea_popescu: this is pure elliotism, "the lack of women willing to marry poor people is not mega-puzzle".
asciilifeform: one component that would vastly simplify the job is gossip net.
mircea_popescu: it isn't, especially as most women marry poor people.
asciilifeform: such that one would not need heavy boxes, only relays.
mircea_popescu: the solving a problem by pretending the problem doesn't exist, in whatever flavour may the pretense come, is not solving anything.
asciilifeform: isn't this kinda how mircea_popescu proposes to solve the problem of isp compulsion by meat sovereigns ? 'pretend not problem'
mircea_popescu: i said ignore it.
mircea_popescu: ie, declare usg impotent and act accordingly. "oh, they'll shut you down" "whatever, i'll open another".
mircea_popescu: "fifty."
mircea_popescu: that's exactly how you solve the problem of housing yourself. you declare the "alf non-housing board" impotent.
asciilifeform: the distinction between 'march, men, into machine gun fire, plug embrasure with your sorry arse' and 'pretend no machine gun' is perhaps too subtle for my orc brain
asciilifeform: at any rate, the 'plug embrasure' approach -- worx
mircea_popescu: if it is you have serious problems with thought generally. the second is two things.
mircea_popescu: ignoring machine gun is a matter of action ; pretending no machine gun is a matter of thought. might as well not understand the difference between camming and dating.
asciilifeform: how did it go, 'courageous man is afraid, only idiot is not afraid'
asciilifeform possibly grasps
asciilifeform: the other thing, also from mircea_popescu's toolkit, that'd make this readily work, is the meta-isp thing
mircea_popescu: as per usual, when i talk of something it's not "undoable", whatever it may look like.
asciilifeform: going to mars -- is doable. but not by simply jumping vigorously.
asciilifeform: gotta invent the pieces.
mircea_popescu: the problem, predictably, is that we have dedicated cs people and very loosely associated everyone-elses.
mircea_popescu: pretty much everyone who doesn't lisp still harbords some sort of hope he'll you know, contribute to republic ON HIS OWN TERMS. hence pete_dushenski 's log-line ref bombings, because hey, maybe he's a little me or something.
asciilifeform: 'own terms' is a sin.
asciilifeform: 'в чужой монастырь...'
PeterL: does mircea_popescu do lisp?
mircea_popescu: not worth the mention
asciilifeform: peter I ~did~ build a ship at some point. (but it is not for what he is remembered..)
mircea_popescu: i remember him for it.
asciilifeform: lel, i apparently -- also.
Framedragger: for the logs - nothing new - but was a nice short summary - http://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/221615/why-do-dynamic-languages-make-it-more-difficult-to-maintain-large-codebases/221658#221658 - regarding JS:
Framedragger: 1) preamble: "[...] there is a strong correlation between a language being
Framedragger: dynamically typed and a language also lacking all the other facilities that make lowering the cost of maintaining a large codebase easier"
Framedragger: 2) "Let's take JavaScript for example.
Framedragger: (I worked on the original versions of JScript at Microsoft from 1996 through 2001.) The by-design purpose of JavaScript was to make the monkey dance when you moused over it. Scripts were often a single line. We considered ten line scripts to be pretty normal, hundred line scripts to be huge, and thousand line scripts were unheard of.
Framedragger: The language was absolutely not designed for programming in the large, and our implementation decisions, performance targets, and so on, were based on that assumption. [Goes on to show just how insanely dynamic JS is, and how it's mostly suitable for one-liners, etc.]"
asciilifeform: javascript does not exemplify anything -- other than the consequences of letting idiot 'esl' teenagers create infrastructure.
asciilifeform: and certainly not 'dynamic languages'.
Framedragger: web shitstack sits on a language designed and implemented in 10 days
Framedragger: for sure.
asciilifeform: it is a sucking blackhole of idiocy, so strong that anyone who has dealt with it in any serious capacity is contaminated
Framedragger: it's a shame that large part of 'infrastructure' is built and run by those teenagers. then again maybe it shouldn't even be counted to be part of anything.
asciilifeform: and, while the illness may be curable, it is rather like serious alcoholism, leaves its mark, cannot be forgotten.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i'm with the "Shouldn't even be counted" side.
asciilifeform: it is part of nothing .
asciilifeform: will be swept away, like dust on a car in autumn.
Framedragger: i remember having to debug frontend code (which i wasn't supposed to touch in the first place), looked at JS exceptions, didn't make any sense, until realized that it was "compiled from coffeescript". asked "lead frontend engineer" how do i debug, he said he'll check and sort it himself, "it's not really debuggable". OK.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565725 << I thought this was a reply to me, was so confused for a minute
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 20:28 asciilifeform: peter I ~did~ build a ship at some point. (but it is not for what he is remembered..)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ya i figured.. i mean, it's a pile o' nothing, can't argue with that.
asciilifeform: worse than 'nothing', it is one of those deeply evil creations of idiotkind that make one stupider just by CONTACT
Framedragger: ikr. that's what it did to me when i had to debug it. ugh
phf: Framedragger: "lead frontend engineer" didn't know about source maps?
Framedragger: phf: in truth, not sure if coffeescript had source maps back then
Framedragger: still though, not exactly much of an answer. (it was a small web shop, granted, but yes ridiculous title)
trinque: my survival strategy with webshit has always been to heretically do as little as possible client-side
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/kids-born-after-the-world-went-to-shit-arent-progressive-theyre-just-lazy/ << Trilema - Kids born after the world went to shit aren't progressive. They're just lazy.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/Shq9z << in vague lulz : romanian immigrant (from small town in romania's own rust belt) living in az and working as a rent-a-cop voted trump. his declared principal issue : "the stability of world peace".
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ya, i can take it easy on the barfbombs. am also taking ug cs course to fill in the holes in my education. not likely to lisp anytime this decade but working towards being a more useful citizen of the republic. bbet seemed like potential avenue. your ancient suggestion to serve as marketing agent for tmsr-related entities isn't forgotten but meatwot obligations currently prevent its pursuit,
pete_dushenski: if not indefinitely so. lastly, if i had who else to emulate, i... would. but taleb's a bit of a hermit and i have nfi who else (alive) that leaves.
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFcVcXQqzZg << and now one for diebold fans, eg. asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski mind that the point isn't by any means to turn everyone into a cs head. those are probably oversupplied.
mircea_popescu: the point however IS to get people to do things that ... well, "out of confort zone" is the common expression, but it's unserviceable for at least two reasons.
mircea_popescu: just do things. especially the things that are big and scary. that'd be a better statement.
pete_dushenski: i'm a bit far behind to be a total cs head anyways, just trying to keep up with some of the convos.
pete_dushenski: as to scary things, i can see it. and believe it or not i'm doing just this on meatspace projects. just have to kill a few dragons to get to the (republican) princess.
mircea_popescu: how it usually works.
mircea_popescu: "Of course I'm not happy about this, I like smart people, but that's the new reality. There was a time where women went to college to get an MRS degree, and I am telling you that that time is today, there is nothing else of value in there. Sure, some college women go on to become doctors and CEOs, and some go on to become child pornographers and Salon writers, none of those things have anything to do with what happened in c
mircea_popescu: ollege. If you are going to college to get an education and not to meet guys, you are insane, literally insane, delusional, in reality one is never going to happen and the other is going to happen anyway, and you could have gotten both for free at a bookstore. Worked for me. The only question for the future single mom is whether it's worth $XXXXXX a year to meet guys, and the answer is of course it's not, even nightclubs l
mircea_popescu: et ladies in for free."
mircea_popescu: i am totally lost in a sea of tlp again, send help
asciilifeform: lol i recall that one, it was one of the smoke bombs he threw to make readers think he were a chick
mircea_popescu: oh ?
asciilifeform: the quoted bit
mircea_popescu: why would he want anyone to think he';s a chick ?
asciilifeform: nfi
mircea_popescu: so then wut lol
asciilifeform: it worked on asciilifeform and bunch of other chumps
mircea_popescu: let's try this again. on what is your notion that "he threw to make readers think he were a chick" based ?
asciilifeform: my arse
mircea_popescu: ic
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565762 << veeeery few of these were > 4th grade level , pete_dushenski
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 22:54 pete_dushenski: i'm a bit far behind to be a total cs head anyways, just trying to keep up with some of the convos.
pete_dushenski: the shit ?! i went to french immersion not cs immersion!!!1
pete_dushenski: i dun think i went to cs elementary yet
asciilifeform: lel i'm in a diner and there's a screen showing continued protest derpage
asciilifeform: should've went
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i meant, very few threads used maths above basic algebra to follow
asciilifeform bbl
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point you elude here is that education is not so much about gaining things as it is about losing them. it's like washing not like book implants.
mircea_popescu: "theory of relativity used no math beyond highschool, so why didn't you come up with it" is a horrible reason to beat up your teenager some night in 1915.
mircea_popescu: i'm aware that technically it would qualify as olympiad subject matter for that reason ; but still.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546426 << for your entomological pleasure, this is an example of an elementary cs discussion that intrigues me and i ~want~ to understand yet requires afaics zero math. the logs abound with other examples of 'this language does this but not that and is therefore better suited for the other thing' that i (perhaps naively) deem valuable despite not having a ready application
a111: Logged on 2016-09-21 14:52 phf: and for the record, read in python doesn't ever fail, what fails is elevation from str to unicode that implicitly happens in places, like when you do "print" or inside the html encoder or whatever. the correct way is to treat "str" as a byte sequence, and explicitly do encode/decode when appropriate.
pete_dushenski: for the knowledge in my kulak lyf.
pete_dushenski: ^ asciilifeform for when you return.
pete_dushenski: anyways, phf's line is but one example. the corpse that was my 'trb history' should serve as the only proof required that i have deeply nfi which way is up in the cs field and that is has ~zero to do with maths.
pete_dushenski: in other news, usg doesn't want to call michigan for trump or what ? final tally will be 306-228.
jurov: pete_dushenski: i have soi-dissant master degree in cs, but actually learned everything important outside of school by tinkering and reading
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-10#1565790 << word 'cs' threw me off. subj of thread was, apparently: plumbing.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-10 23:56 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546426 << for your entomological pleasure, this is an example of an elementary cs discussion that intrigues me and i ~want~ to understand yet requires afaics zero math. the logs abound with other examples of 'this language does this but not that and is therefore better suited for the other thing' that i (perhaps naively) deem valuable despite not having a ready application
pete_dushenski: jurov: ya not saying formal education is the be all and end all, far from it (hell, i'm even reluctant to register 'resp' for chiltin), just that, if done well, it can provide a framework for further learning. otherwise its markov chains with no grounding.
trinque: lel
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: aha. might've guessed as much.
trinque: more advisable would be to pick a thing to build, and then beat yourself against this problem until either breaks
asciilifeform: plumbing is not difficult in the intellectual sense. but is question of how much shit you can stand to be soaked in.
trinque: ^
jurov: pete_dushenski: i have my doubts about that framework
trinque: ftr I am a college dropout, and it turns out books from the 80s can still be had.
trinque: and further back, even!
mircea_popescu: what did you drop out of ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: hm. can't say that my monastic existence necessarily welcomes shit soaking, but... higher (republican) callings must prevail!
trinque: mircea_popescu: CS/EE full scholarship
mircea_popescu: heh.
pete_dushenski: jurov: how so ?
jurov: pete_dushenski: hardest subject revolved around reimplementing unix innards
jurov: (aside from math)
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/xjsRl << delicious 'carbon' squirming.
asciilifeform: jurov: same at my uni.
jurov: no lisp. no datastructures. no assigned reading of knuth and such giants
pete_dushenski: jurov: ok. then what did you learn after that was a better framework ?
trinque: jurov: I would've stayed in the school that taught those.
pete_dushenski has knuth on shelf. for when.
trinque: pete_dushenski: peculiarities of python string handling are really only interesting entomologically
jurov: heh, don't know what to answer. still learning
mircea_popescu: trinque but the fundamental problems with the concept of "string" aren't.
mircea_popescu: hence why it's a matter of washing not of getting implants.
jurov: strings are fine, but the characters. noone knows what character is.
mircea_popescu: the inuitive approach (oh ~obviously~ i know what a string is, just like when anne sexton writes in her spiral notebook amirite ?) utterly fails ; and even in the hands of very subtle thinkers it can explode loudly - witness the many day disagreement with alf over the matter of utf/ansi, which unearthed disputes all the way to the greek ikonoclasm and the fundaments of literacy/alphabet.
mircea_popescu: jurov iknowright! "the economy is fine, we just don't know how any of the parts work. also we understand the brain and we sequenced the genome. btw the global warming"
jurov: what in hindsight bewilders me most, nothing from quality applied computer science from space research found its way fo curriculum. we were basically learning from beancounters and pdp hackers.
jurov: some examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Systems_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON
mircea_popescu: certainly might explain why code bloat is so commonly the result of college-educated engineer employment.
jurov: btw, coinbr parts are in drakon
mircea_popescu has never seen used.
mircea_popescu: oh the flowchart thing. i suspected it's what phf made the v charts with :p
ben_vulpes: g-graphviz?
jurov: heh no. you draw and fill in the flowchart and it generates code in usual language
ben_vulpes: (re: phf's thing)
ben_vulpes: yeah, drakon looks nifty.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i'm just messin'.
ben_vulpes: ah
ben_vulpes: suspected, hence the hesitant forth putting
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/11/10/socially-responsible-investing-or-how-i-told-you-so-doesnt-pay-the-bills/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - “Socially Responsible Investing”, or how I told you so doesn’t pay the bills.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's vaguely regrettable no one with an old dogde pick-up ran. then he could have driven it all the way over to the wh and park it on the lawn. << Naturally because I'd be replaceing the lawn with better grass. Make Grass Green Again!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> plumbing is not difficult in the intellectual sense. but is question of how much shit you can stand to be soaked in. << Also how to sweat connections without burning the shit out of surroundings
pete_dushenski appreciates all the framework building, as ever, and is off to the mountains for the long weekend. cheers.
mod6: c-ya
asciilifeform: holy FUCK jurov programs in weird sovlang !?
asciilifeform: does he also use refal ?????
asciilifeform: (refal is what happened when su academics went 'they lisp? us too! but CATCH UP AND OUTRUN AMERIKKA'
asciilifeform: )
asciilifeform: but to go upstack --- i see, e.g., this, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Quicksort_DRAKON.png , and have nfi how the thing wins.
asciilifeform: even 'labview', cosmetically similar, i can see how wins, it shortens 'ooda loop' to ~0 because the circuits can be tested in 'real time' with wysywyg blinkenlights. but this -- i've nfi.
BingoBoingo: Seems obvious. Liberal america hasn't ruined it.
asciilifeform: ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=202 << ooda loop )
mircea_popescu: i didn't make it that far, shipwrecked over the eat hamburger thing
mircea_popescu: (laugh at me if you will at my homely simplicity, but to me that example is sufficient proof that the language is not practically useful. if even for the purpose of didactic example it requires the chicken-in-vacuum notion of an eating cycle which is based on hamburger quanta...)
asciilifeform: btw in food shop bunch of 'dudebros' discussing tritler , were excellent comedy, went on and on, shaking hipsterbeards, re how 'it won't be so bad, he will still have to WORK WITH POLICY MAKERS TO MAKE POLICY ... [snipped buncha washingtonian rubbish] ... and CANNOT CANCEL INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS!' etc.
mircea_popescu: lol. he's canceling paris, it's a done deal.
asciilifeform: it is very difficult to convey how these people talk
asciilifeform: very particular manner of speech
mircea_popescu: (at least, everyone, literally, thinks he will, so the other participants won't partiicpate, so paris is dead.
ben_vulpes: and the tpp too i hope!
mircea_popescu: kerry is set for some pretty epic kerry-isms over in marakesh
ben_vulpes: BURN EVERYTHING DOWN
asciilifeform: 'drakon' is best illustration i've seen yet for mircea_popescu's 'graphics are for tards' thing
asciilifeform: the flow charts add 0 to the expressivity
mircea_popescu: (guy's a primo idiot, should be the poster child of the whole "bureaucracy lost touch" thing. "here's a slapstick with a lot of facial reconstructive surgery")
asciilifeform: the way a dctard pronounces word 'policy' is something that must be experienced with own ears.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ironically, that is not up to him. china decides there ; anyone who wants to keep their credit line will conform, and that includes the us.
asciilifeform: it is spoken in such a way that implies that if 'policymakers' made 'policy' to this effect, electrons would cease to spin in their orbits
asciilifeform: sun -- to rise, etc.
mircea_popescu: china ~is~ extremely soft however, so they may permit.
asciilifeform: the wetness of water, surely, subject also to POLICYMAKERS
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah they're pretty cute.
ben_vulpes: "what is your policy policy?"
mircea_popescu: does my latest header suck btw ?
asciilifeform: it is great. gigantic gilded arse.
mircea_popescu: lol k.
asciilifeform: with massive gilded arseplug
mircea_popescu: girl to the left is topless but sadly can't get it all in
ben_vulpes: hm, this calls for a header contextual
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-11#1565826 << almost any quasi-serious learning is about throwing nonsense out of one's head re 'i KNOW HOW IT WORX', whether 'i know how digestion works', 'money', 'arithmetic'
a111: Logged on 2016-11-11 00:20 mircea_popescu: the inuitive approach (oh ~obviously~ i know what a string is, just like when anne sexton writes in her spiral notebook amirite ?) utterly fails ; and even in the hands of very subtle thinkers it can explode loudly - witness the many day disagreement with alf over the matter of utf/ansi, which unearthed disputes all the way to the greek ikonoclasm and the fundaments of literacy/alphabet.
asciilifeform: people come factory-standard with this penny in the fuse socket, 'i KNOW how...'
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: fucking irresponsible to encourage it in children. under any pretext.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didja watch the circus i filmed ? got similar one in ben_vulpeslandia ?
ben_vulpes: tried over coffee this morning
asciilifeform: i heard that yours put mine to shame
ben_vulpes: oh 'twas glorious
ben_vulpes: they waltzed out onto i5, the corridor from mexico to canada
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> oh 'twat glorious << FTFY
ben_vulpes: with the cops in front
ben_vulpes: https://goo.gl/maps/rYFn5Qnf2f62 << this onramp, if intel serves
asciilifeform: ours was some phantasmagoric sea of virginal j000 chixx, as if it were selection yard in commendant's office in chixschwitz
mircea_popescu: what gave it away, the noses ?
ben_vulpes: was there a particular timestamp of glory, asciilifeform ?
mircea_popescu: (/me once said at party, to obvious female dressed as female etc, "i bet you have a huge schlong". everyone burst out laughing and she... well... left.)
asciilifeform: lel
mircea_popescu: huge fcuking schnautz. i mean immense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is a particular phenotype, lots of'em here for some reason, largely in 'university' for 'education'
asciilifeform: well, in the womanities.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no particular timestamp, but in the shorter segments, with the walking
mircea_popescu: wtf why do us-jews spell shnotys as ... schnoz ?!
mircea_popescu: noz ain't read like that ? wut ?
asciilifeform: brooklynization ?
mircea_popescu: but... but...
mircea_popescu: it's שנויץ for the love of fuck. /ʃnawt͡s/. wtf is schnoz.
ben_vulpes: oh cool
ben_vulpes: healthcare tax went up twenty percent
mircea_popescu: just ?
mircea_popescu: also it's not a tax, wrecker.
ben_vulpes: totally a tax
ben_vulpes: commie
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: make notatax great again!
ben_vulpes: still not over that 50% threshold
ben_vulpes: very few things beat winding up the girls, but winding up my parents over this miserable horseshit is fantabulously fun.
ben_vulpes: "45% tax rate and i can't even discuss putting my kid in a public school with a straight face"
mircea_popescu: why not ?
ben_vulpes: oregon schools are notoriously bad
mircea_popescu: how do you think you'll get your drugs in your old age if you don't give him a chance to learn the biz when he's young ?
ben_vulpes: slander
ben_vulpes: i have never done drugs
mircea_popescu: ah, but you will!
mircea_popescu: old people do drugs, it's an evolutionary biology fact.
ben_vulpes: and pray tell what drugs would i need kids help procuring?
mircea_popescu: when i was a kid, not going to public school was pretty much a public admission of mental retardation. "oh, poor ionescus, their kid has to go to that fingerpainting no grades private thing."
ben_vulpes: over here you only go to public school if you can't afford the private ones
mircea_popescu: i thought education was free.
ben_vulpes: daycare -- free.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker woman grabber making me pay for the human rights.
ben_vulpes: even 12k a year if you want to spend it.
ben_vulpes: education -- not available at any price.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/wgvMr << moar sv butthurt
asciilifeform: '“While demeaning, insulting, and ridiculing minorities, immigrants, and the physically/mentally disabled worked for Mr. Trump, I want to be clear that this behavior -- and these views -- have no place at Grubhub,” Maloney explained. Adding, if it were up to him, Trump would have been fired a long time ago. "Had he worked here, many of his comments would have resulted in his immediate termination.”'
mircea_popescu: wtf is grubhub
mircea_popescu: ahahaha the new civil servant gang strategy : prosecute clinton a la vapeur so obama can pardon her and she gets double jeopardy protection.
mircea_popescu: aaaand leonard cohen died.
mod6: yeah, saw that :/
mircea_popescu: guy was old back when baez was young.
mod6: ya
mats: https://www.nrk.no/ytring/jeg-ble-voldtatt-av-en-mann-1.12852714
mats: >I do not feel anger toward my assailant, for I see him most as a product of an unjust world. A product of an upbringing marked by war and deprivation.
mats: how magnanimous
trinque: Afraid that I'll be perceived as anti feminist << yes, deprived of the dulap.
trinque: I don't fault him for his deep confusion; he's a born slave and has no one telling him what to do.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ahahaha the new civil servant gang strategy : prosecute clinton a la vapeur so obama can pardon her and she gets double jeopardy protection. << It's alright. She can roam free while she watches the rest rot in jail starting with Huma Weiner.
trinque: nothing coherent anyway
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560575 << it is the same here. these creatures have precisely zero internality. they are built entirely for the input of commands.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 15:12 mircea_popescu: very weird, the list of nonsense these people sprout. it's as if they have 0 reflexive capacity whatsoever, how am i supposed to distinguish google "ai" from some douche who spits out " Your style of just summarily shitting on how the author wrote this piece adds no value to the discussion." ?
BingoBoingo has seen very few people despondent about Trumpreich, only a couple angry, and many "grudgingly" accepting while smiling.
trinque: first first lady with nudes. what's not to like?
trinque: thus dawns a new day, I tell ye
trinque: speaking of good days, I received a shipment of 6 boxen for new payment related adventures today.
trinque: amazing the things you can get for the cost of a couple pizzas if you hate "our" future
mircea_popescu: wtf mats reads norse ?
mats: i use google translate
mircea_popescu: a
mats: which, on the subject, is also really good with chinese now
mircea_popescu: oh is it ?
mats: https://research.googleblog.com/2016/09/a-neural-network-for-machine.html
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e43a6f38cfa64881f730bd405f674932/tumblr_mokr0iF1gI1rgcs3fo1_1280.jpg
trinque: mats: what's so fancy about that page that even the text doesn't load without JS?
trinque: I guess I'll never read anything they wrote again
mats: trinque: http://dpaste.com/33BFW4N
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/say-a-prayer/ << Trilema - Say a prayer...

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