Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-07-20 | 2016-07-22 →
pete_dushenski: because no true scotsman has hands that small.
Joshua-I: they must have some advantage
Joshua-I: What news outlets do you folks read anyhow
ben_vulpes: qntra, mostly
ben_vulpes: a hand-curated selection of rss feeds
ben_vulpes: oh gcaptain
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly hoooooly shit the retardation on display in #django
ben_vulpes: "where are the docs installed with ancient djangos in virtualenvs?"
ben_vulpes: "what?"
ben_vulpes: "documentation. you know. as what readthedocs is generated from."
ben_vulpes: "oh. have you tried readthedocs?"
ben_vulpes: "yes. eric holscher in his infinite wisdom removed documentation for 1.3.5"
ben_vulpes: "oh. you should probably upgrade."
ben_vulpes: "mno. not worth the cost."
ben_vulpes: "oh. have you installed dash?"
ben_vulpes: "why the everloving fuck would i install 500 mb of webkit for shit that should have been packaged with the source?"
ben_vulpes: "haha but why aren't you upgrading?"
ben_vulpes: phf: i know, i meant 'integer' in the abstract, with numeric as the concrete implementation that i'd use.
ben_vulpes: CHAR[] didn't make much sense to me, because a hash isn't instrinsically a set of characters, except insofar as a byte array can be seen as a set of characters, but which characters...
ben_vulpes: but it lends the benefit of "oh, derps asked about 1b1tc01n34t3r"
ben_vulpes: without having to cast said to a NUMERIC
ben_vulpes: galls me on some level to think about a hash, which i concieve of as an integer, as a byte array or a set of chars.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a prime example of why "helpers" aren't helpful
mircea_popescu: and ftr, the c notion of "char" is exactly equal to the notion of byte. the thing uses words and chars.
mircea_popescu: i guess they call the words "int" and the bytes "char"
ben_vulpes is stupidly proud to actually understand this now
phf: ben_vulpes: you might benefit from sticking byte array into CHAR[] unless i'm misremembering psql constraints on what kind of chars can go there. because bytea is going to have a 4 byte overhead, numeric an 8 byte overhead
ben_vulpes: my worry is precisely those constraints. "only ascii chars? utf-8 monstrosities?"
phf: also bytea is a varchar, afair you can't put a size constraint on it, so scanning over a column of varchars has some kind of overhead
phf: err, similar to varchar, not literally a varchar
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you understand that there's no difference between an "utf-8 character" and a number of ascii characters yes
ben_vulpes: that i have also learned recently!
ben_vulpes: albeit recently =~ last 3 years
asciilifeform: << how didja think i got the, e.g., 'list of e==1 winnerz' etc out.
mircea_popescu: variable too, 1-4 or some shit
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 00:46 ben_vulpes: psql will even shit csvs
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: you were bitching about csvs! how'm i to know what you do and do not know.
phf: same way you're supposed to know he has more than one machine
phf ducks
ben_vulpes: get OUT
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was barfing at the idea that phuctor is cleanly sliceable into a piece that lives on my box and sends csv to somebody else. very much own thing, from own thread..
asciilifeform: << i'm beginning to see where mircea_popescu got his notions about 'gui is for lamerz'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 00:45 mircea_popescu: alternatively, phpmyadmin is also just a script you can get standalone. tho in generall it's a case of "people haven't actually ever tried to cli mysql because nobody ever told them they could"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: did you nuke the 'read only pg user' notion?
mircea_popescu: guy was for lamerz since before www was invented.
ben_vulpes: > ynterface
asciilifeform: gui was for lamers since lamers were issued - by mistake - computer.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: waiwat
mircea_popescu: even the fucktardation of "resizable windows". you know i never used that stupid shit ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'guy'
mircea_popescu: if i wanted multiple viewports i'd have bought more screens.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, i have 1 per
mircea_popescu: so yes, "gui" is for lamerz. there's no point in having a fucking button to click on like im serving mcfucksticks. there's no need to "shade" the "part of the window that shows you how to move it"
ben_vulpes: i fight this daily on osx.
ben_vulpes: have three monitors.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again these 'are' gui in the same sense php tapeworm is 'programmer'
ben_vulpes: 1 usefully allocated to emacs, another to term, laptop screen shows kandinksy, rockets, turbines, etc on shuffle.
mircea_popescu: yeah well your warm saltine box that moves around molecule designs in a hologralcd is not yet on sale.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes has entire machine to run screensaver?!
asciilifeform: rich fella
ben_vulpes: 1 machine for three displays
ben_vulpes: pais pobre
ben_vulpes: and it is heinous apple box, and so there is no unified way to split, shuffle, collapse.
ben_vulpes: i am at the very least lucky that emacs will eat CMD-<anything but tab>
asciilifeform: the depressing thing about the crapple lappy (and i think i have the one ben_vulpes has, the maxint one) is that it makes me pine for a few square metres of its lcd
ben_vulpes: $s mjolnir
asciilifeform: but afaik no one sells it
asciilifeform: can only be had in idiot 15in chunk
ben_vulpes: it is rather nice.
ben_vulpes: but much like growing fond of fine wines, this is a habit best not acquired.
asciilifeform: would be much more useful if it were 10x bigger and pluggable into real comp
asciilifeform: i would buy it.
ben_vulpes: sure, but how'd they justify the markup on the shitboxen otherwise
ben_vulpes: (4k!)
asciilifeform: the other frustrating thing is that it points the wrong way.
ben_vulpes: you're just going to have to wait for flexible displays, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: what would that do ?
asciilifeform: lcd that sags? nothx
ben_vulpes: are you not talking about a tall, instead of wide display?
ben_vulpes: which, if you'll let me finish omfg!, would suck in myriad other ways i can't wait to hear you bitch about
asciilifeform: though idiot 'widescreen' is painful everywhichway, turn it, and it aint wide enough
asciilifeform: use horizontally - not tall.
ben_vulpes: anyways, laptop is not a workstation, we've done this thread.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i run 4 vertical displays
asciilifeform: tell me how 'would suck' ?
ben_vulpes: because how are you going to cram a tall display into the portable formfactor?
ben_vulpes: i personally want a display that detaches.
ben_vulpes: tiny little compute box. kb. monitor.
ben_vulpes: and all on a 6-axis arm with other 6-axis arms mounted on a ball that follows me around positioning the monitor and kb just perfectly ergonomically.
asciilifeform: what's to keep lappy from being rectangular in other way?
ben_vulpes: so not laptop or even possible.
asciilifeform: cue mircea_popescu 'all computers are portable!1111 mount on flatbed truck'
ben_vulpes: naught but the economic pressures that drive laptop producers to make their wares with the fewest number of atoms possible to satisfy the cowsies.
ben_vulpes: because shitboxen and not workstations!
ben_vulpes: lithium ion laptop battery! eight hours of battery life, predicated on your only draining it twice!
asciilifeform: << wake me up when somebody without a speechwriter / ghostwriter runs.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 03:12 pete_dushenski: << you can't resign from usg.trump just because you're illiterate and didn't do your job (resignation letter from speechwriterlady who not-so-lightly lifted bits from usg.michelle and gave them to usg.melania)
asciilifeform: for even city dogcatcher.
asciilifeform: srsly when 'speechwriter' became a thing, it was already high time to say 'enough'
ben_vulpes: this was i think before you were born.
asciilifeform: before fdr even.
ben_vulpes: subject of fdr, yarvin is peddling epubs of moldbuggery on the 'kindle store'
asciilifeform: lulzy, moldbuggery blogspot has pdf (?) vers of it all fer phree
ben_vulpes: go, read on kindle
ben_vulpes: or any other e-ink thinger
asciilifeform: i think this is largely a begging cup
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i had them loaded there for years.
ben_vulpes: do not underestimate the laziness of americans.
asciilifeform: whole set.
ben_vulpes: the pdf or hand-wgot set?
ben_vulpes: nowai!
asciilifeform: some rando collected it
ben_vulpes: they fit legibly?
ben_vulpes: gracious
ben_vulpes: how surprising
asciilifeform: well trick is to use 'dx' or other machine with reasonably a4-like screen
asciilifeform: (if you like epaper, get 'dx' before it is entirely extinct)
ben_vulpes: i've wanted one of those for a while.
ben_vulpes: 200 usd lol
asciilifeform: was 500 new
asciilifeform: whatever
ben_vulpes: 800 'new in box' on ebay
asciilifeform: it went out of print. permanently.
ben_vulpes: noshit
asciilifeform: now they only make the 'fits in purse' shits.
ben_vulpes: i have one of the v2s, iirc. fits in back pocket of ~all jeans.
ben_vulpes: i have *sat* on the thing to *zero* effect.
ben_vulpes: this was back when i considered it disposable and not a treasure, mind you.
asciilifeform: quite useless for nonreflowing b00kz.
ben_vulpes: i did not begin to collect those until quite recently.
pete_dushenski: << more from same rag. singapore win, or why small states cap effectively cap out ~7mn denizens.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: wow buterin underestimated the ethclassic community
thestringpuller: they are willing to ride or die. that's actually kind of refreshing
shinohai: how cute
Framedragger: shinohai: re qntra on KAT, wasn't it authorities in poland, not ukraine?
Framedragger: "On Wednesday, law enforcement in Poland arrested the alleged owner of the site, 30 year-old Artem Vaulin of Ukraine."
shinohai: Yes I meant to start the sentence with "Polish" to clarify that.
Framedragger: (so just to be clear it's not ukrainian prosecutors)
shinohai: yes i need tohave BingoBoingo change that if he will thanx
shinohai: But he will end up in US, in usascwitz prison
Framedragger: agree, no real diff, `postsoviet block -> usa` streamlined process yay
thestringpuller: So the kickass torrent raid was partially made possible by Coinbase?
phf: "The key piece of evidence that led authorities to Vaulin appeared to come when Apple handed over his personal details after investigators matched an IP address used to log in to the KAT Facebook page with one linked to an iTunes purchase."
phf: well, more specifically "Records provided by Apple showed that conducted an iTunes transaction using IP Address on or about July 31, 2015. The same IP Address was used on the same day to login into the KAT Facebook."
asciilifeform: lulzy. Use Moar Arsebook, Buy Moar Payware
asciilifeform: srsly 13333333337 w4r3z meister BUYING itunes crapolade ??!
phf: you understimate the amount of fun those little devices provide :> ukranian guy in poland raking estimated 16 mil in ad revenue, i'm sure he had bitches and bling, rather than you know live in a safe bunker and infosec all day
phf: but just a reminder, he violated 5th crack commandment "never sell no crack where you rest at"
mircea_popescu: you know, from my personal experience this "estimated" is exactly like "silk road did an estimated billion dollar drug trade".
mircea_popescu: i have personally chased the "Estimated ad revenue" of such people, for years. it never came through.
mircea_popescu: this is no actual proof, of course, "somewhere in the sky there may be". but from 100s of actually checked cases, every one turned to be an outright lie.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, silk road can't dispose of a kg of coke for 3 weeks over xmas ; and the "ad revenue guy" can't pay for his coffee.
phf: or to quote The Guard "street value. you boys always go on about street value. i don't know which street you buying your coke at, because it's not the same street i'm buying my coke at"
mircea_popescu: << echoes of that same research made it even to trilema.
mircea_popescu: there's actually a lot of valuable data re eeuropean "advertising market" there as a result of me running a large intel project on the topic at the time.
mircea_popescu: but no need to reference my materia obscura. take gigaom. on the basis of "internet knowledge" would you have said he certainly makes "more from ads than ukr polish guy" ? yes. did he ? no. turns out he made less from advertising than freelaqncer makes from fixing python code.
mircea_popescu: take gawker. really, "billion pageviews a year" ? where is it ?
mircea_popescu: qntra made more than gawker at any point of their respective existence.
thestringpuller: making moey off page views is so 1998
phf: we had a thread about advertisement i think copule of times
phf: irs claims that he was selling direct, so i don't know how that translates into money at all, it's probably all fixed bid. if he was doing google now and they didn't immediately kick him off the network, etc. he'd probably be pulling more than 5k but of course not "16mil", which is not enough to pay entire gawker staff, but enough to cover his server costs, etc.
thestringpuller: i hate apache so much
mircea_popescu: and if he weren't and instead did he'd be pulling more. which isn't to say 16mn either, but the problem with "advertising" is that it being all fraud, the logical move is to buy the cheaper fortune teller, which is NEVER going to be "publisher".
mircea_popescu: "clicked traffic" as the thing is called in the [porn] biz being about 500k to the bitcoin last i looked, sometime last year. meaning the entire yearly value of the global "online advertising" market is equivalent to a few bitcoin blocks, meaning in turn that a choice to occupy yourself with that thing is equivalent to a deliberate choice not to matter. nttawwt.
mircea_popescu: << possibly because you never design computer in whole life. you look at fine desktop, think it need crazy shit stick on all sides of unit. you have disease of american capitalist, change thing that is fine for no reason except to look different from comrade. you put cheap rubber of chinese slave factory in keyboard, you put bad crt of mexican drug empire on other side, you put propel
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 05:17 ben_vulpes: and all on a 6-axis arm with other 6-axis arms mounted on a ball that follows me around positioning the monitor and kb just perfectly ergonomically.
mircea_popescu: ler on hat so are like american cartoon guy dexter boy genius. maybe you put sex dildo on bottom to fuck wife with, as explains oglaf here :
asciilifeform just enthroned the 'model f', 0-rubber gigantic keyboard, 4kg or so of mainly steel, that he's been restoring slowly since april
asciilifeform: also, bonus, emits ~0 rf.
asciilifeform: (there are no electrical switches in the thing. you can actually take a piss in it and it'll work.)
mircea_popescu: i thought it was capacitive ?
asciilifeform: for good measure i coated the plastic (only the top surface is plastic, the rest - 3mm steel, 3 layers thereof) in thick nickel paint
asciilifeform: it is capacitative. but operates on ~variations~ in capacitance.
mircea_popescu: so if you piss in it...
asciilifeform: when piss leaks out the bottom, it will equilibrate and continue working.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha ok
asciilifeform: ^ actuator.
asciilifeform: all of the parts (piston, which is a standard 'model m' key), spring (standard model m spring, still made), cylinder (removable individually) and flapper (ditto) are standalone
asciilifeform: they were originally rated for 20 million cycles each at minimum.
asciilifeform: afaik there is no known case of even 1 wearing out.
asciilifeform: if anyone wants one of these things, you can wait a decade for it to show up on 'ebay' or the like, as i did, or you can get the modern reproduction, that someone actually makes, but be aware that it is a castrato (66 key) thing.
asciilifeform: the original has 122.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
mircea_popescu: "in america is type from arsenal of name arsenal. is funny name to me. is like american cheese of name american cheese." ahh this guy is fucking epic.
phf: oh i didn't realize there was a whole series of these
mircea_popescu: btw asciilifeform : above, I TYPED!!11, by hand, the whole fucking lengthy thing.
mircea_popescu: i did this gladly, and i consider myself well gained from the exercise.
mircea_popescu: there's worse things i could be doing with my time than handcopying teh masters.
phf: asciilifeform: there seems to be a significant lack of modifier keys
phf: the extra row of function keys looks nice though
mircea_popescu: i will confess i almost never use the fs and rarely if at all the modifiers.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this makes me bad conscript.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:16 mircea_popescu: << possibly because you never design computer in whole life. you look at fine desktop, think it need crazy shit stick on all sides of unit. you have disease of american capitalist, change thing that is fine for no reason except to look different from comrade. you put cheap rubber of chinese slave factory in keyboard, you put bad crt of mexican drug empire on other si
phf: that is probably why your hands are still on excellent shape :>
mircea_popescu: phf most people who spent as much as i have with computers a) wear glasses b) have various complicated nerve and tendon damage, esp wrist, elbow etc.
mircea_popescu: i'm fine. i credit my literacy for both!
phf: you also rely on very deliberate, minimal tooling. i could for example use nano to write short python scripts, but i need intellij to wrestle with large codebases, and "professional" programmer tools have notoriously bad ergonomics. emacs is notorious for giving its users rsi, etc. but i agree, it can all be remedied with literacy
phf: i think naggum had a quote about it
phf: " Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap
phf: your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it
phf: comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not
phf: do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have
phf: the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.
mircea_popescu: << you know what THEIR explanation for the speechwriter is, yes ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 05:21 asciilifeform: srsly when 'speechwriter' became a thing, it was already high time to say 'enough'
mircea_popescu: phf that final blank line really makes it :D
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:56 mircea_popescu: << you know what THEIR explanation for the speechwriter is, yes ?
asciilifeform: << see l0gz, we had thread wholly about naggum's kbd
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:52 phf: " Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap
mircea_popescu: but in fairness, i would say i rely on a very specific sort of literacy. i have people do things for me! you lot, all of you, are the modern equivalent of a barony that is neverthelss being run by the ox-baron personally, by hand. because in the future we have this strange species of ox-man that "can". of sorts, really, only 80% of the can, but hey, who cares about broken fingers and other appednages as a result. HEAR THE OXM
mircea_popescu: AN CAN!!11
asciilifeform: << understand, ALL of the original driver electronics were removed, controller is mine, any key can be whatever i like. i have the middle of the arrows as a meta.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:34 phf: asciilifeform: there seems to be a significant lack of modifier keys
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but not because you don't know. you're intelligent enough to know, and by rights should know. it's just that the stupid overrider in your brain overrides the brain. it's like so : "we need the speechwriters and ghostwriters to translate our symbols into the plaintext of they without proper huffman tables"
mircea_popescu: what do you say to that, ye master of naivite!
asciilifeform: what i do know is that actual people who lived in the actual-people-age did no such thing.
mircea_popescu: because.they.were.literate.
mircea_popescu: which means a thing, specific and apparently unknown today.
mircea_popescu: and they also became literate through a means, also specific and also apparently "unknown" today, in the "nfi" sense of "unknown" above.
mircea_popescu: that method is "write the fucking thing out", aka "paint the snow"
asciilifeform: << fwiw i destroyed my eyes with b00kz, the old-fashioned way, before i got to spend any serious time with machinery
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:37 mircea_popescu: phf most people who spent as much as i have with computers a) wear glasses b) have various complicated nerve and tendon damage, esp wrist, elbow etc.
mircea_popescu: there is also that yeah.
asciilifeform: but to this day i have no weird nerve or carpal or whateverthefucks, because, perhaps, i am not a monkey, and do not bang the keyboard all day long
asciilifeform: 0 to do with how the keys are arranged.
mircea_popescu: yes, you do. you and me both, we've been pumping out 50k+ lines a year for years now right here.
mircea_popescu: that's more than a writer writes, were it the good sort that actually does write.
asciilifeform: very low duty cycle tho
asciilifeform: set up yer box to actually count the strokes, it is not so hard
mircea_popescu: aha. because you're copying me rather than copying the idiots with their "programmer's claw" in doing it. if you wrote 50k lines of code a year you'd have it too.
mircea_popescu: "meta-alt-fuckyourmother" ? really ? i am not pushing that!
mircea_popescu: "but the symbols!"
mircea_popescu: fuck 'em.
asciilifeform: notice, i like programmablekeys.
mircea_popescu: sure, and every other palleative conceivable, outside of the correct "if it doesn't fit in 27 it needn't be said."
asciilifeform: dun forget, i do things with the box other than talking.
asciilifeform: on occasion...
mircea_popescu: sin and vanity!
asciilifeform: the weird 'lock' key is a ctrl. (i was unable to source a correctly-shaped cntrl to go there, and did not feel like sweating over it at any rate)
phf: yeah, i see you replaced ctrl and alt keys from elsewhere (and a bunch of others obviously)
asciilifeform: the ~sound~ of this thing is difficult to describe, every key is quite satisfing 'schpling', like dry-firing kalash
asciilifeform: quite unlike the more common 'm'
asciilifeform: phf: aha, i killed an 'm' for many of them
asciilifeform: << this was a thing of beauty but i lost the link...
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 15:29 mircea_popescu: "in america is type from arsenal of name arsenal. is funny name to me. is like american cheese of name american cheese." ahh this guy is fucking epic.
asciilifeform: anyone has ?
asciilifeform: there! it is.
asciilifeform: ty phf .
asciilifeform: l0l plastic sks
asciilifeform: 'At approximately 3:14 p.m., Deutsche Bank transmitted to RBS Coutts a SWIFT payment order requesting that $700 million be credited to an account at RBS Coutts. The SWIFT message did not identify the owner of the RBS Coutts account, but the account number listed on the SWIFT as the recipient of the $700 million wire transfer was the number of the Good Star Account.'
asciilifeform: brain-melting.
asciilifeform: 'the goal of Snowden and Huang’s research, according to their post, is to “provide field-ready tools that enable a reporter to observe and investigate the status of the phone’s radios directly and independently of the phone’s native hardware.” In other words, they want to build an entirely separate tiny computer that users can attach to a smartphone to alert them if it’s being dishonest about its radio emissions.' << and
asciilifeform: this will work with phone-home-to-crapple-updatebox how ?
asciilifeform: 'your phone just downloaded a 200MB turd'
mats: i don't see how this could be workable either
asciilifeform: it isn't a wholly idiotic idea when applied to something you actually think you have a grasp of (e.g., the packets going into and out of your battlestation)
asciilifeform: and in fact practiced by pretty much every literate person
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu had an essay re same )
asciilifeform: but for closed brick that eats and shits 100s of MB of ??? every day, quite useless.
asciilifeform: gotta love the tunnel-visioned elaborate crapolade these folks offer instead of very basic sanities
asciilifeform: let's encrypt the space inside our nostrils with free ssl certs!111
asciilifeform: alert if my toilet is flushing without authorization.
mats: i dun understand how this'd prevent exfil when the user eventually turns on the radio to use it
mats: am i missing something or what
asciilifeform: mats: we are dealing with a psychiatric, not technical, artifact.
asciilifeform: like a hand-crafted napoleon bicorn lovingly stitched from asylum bedsheets
mats: lol what
asciilifeform: mats: phf link earlier
asciilifeform: classic lultron
mircea_popescu: << "when management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact."
mircea_popescu: "AK-47: Crude and inaccurate bullet thrower designed by and for illiterate peasants. Chambered in a caliber that manages to cut the ballistics of a proper .30-caliber battle rifle in half without passing on any weight savings to the grunt. Ergonomics only suitable for Russian midgets. Archaic cable trigger spring, crummy sights, no sight radius to speak of, no bolt hold-open device, and a clumsy safety. Favorite infantry
mircea_popescu: rifle of Middle Eastern goat herders, guys named Abdullah, and backwoods militia types who like the fact that it shoots cheap ammo and has ballistics like their familiar .30-30." <<< amusingly, these are actually quite good points.
ben_vulpes: dude when did bunnie go full retard
mircea_popescu: some point between now and whenever decided not to join tmsr ?
ben_vulpes: "current tastes and preferences of reporters"
ben_vulpes: bitch you will buy a three hundred dollar ancient craptop from the bazaar and learn2gpg
mircea_popescu: first, i will crack all your fingers in the piano. THEN you MAY be allowed to buy ancient laptop and learn to gpg, MAYBE.
asciilifeform: << when he decided to become a reddit celebrity ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 17:30 ben_vulpes: dude when did bunnie go full retard
mircea_popescu: all this focus on the wrong sort of ergonomics.
asciilifeform: or an mit darling?
asciilifeform: or, or.
mircea_popescu: there is NOTHING WRONG with tool killing SOME OF the lusers. wrong is when the tool hurts the lusers it didn't kill.
ben_vulpes: "but i can't let go of the ipnohe, it's got my email and facebookz!"
mircea_popescu: "your job is called being a whore, forget the journacrap"
ben_vulpes: are you seriously going to drag a player piano out the airplane when jumping behind enemy lines
asciilifeform: and wtf, first time i hear the complaint about the spring
asciilifeform: srsly wat
mircea_popescu: well part of derp's problem is that to her stupid head there exists no enemies
asciilifeform: aaand no bold holdopen for same reason phuctor has no api.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a lot of the guy's complaints are in the direction of "this is too heavy too hard too etc" reminiscent of "beautiful one tries to go to war"
asciilifeform: phun phakt: for every conceivable heresy re kalash, american 'ricers' will happily sell you an aftermarket kit , to idiotate to yer heart's delight
asciilifeform: from weird spring, to titanium (brittle!) firing pin, to iphoniferous sight running ios
mircea_popescu: amusingly i've yet to meet someone who could use sights correctly.
asciilifeform: 'devil finds work for idle hands'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: waiwut
mircea_popescu: (no, it's not that you can do it ONCE, after prepping for 10 minutes. it is that you do it every time in .6 seconds. that's correctly. it'\s a fucking rifle.)
asciilifeform: well yes?
mircea_popescu: "no need cuz i has scope see"
asciilifeform: what scope on kalash
mircea_popescu: you've not been keeping up.
asciilifeform: it is not a sniper weapon
mircea_popescu: they even make 2.5x scopes. "soo... what's this do ?" "IT SCOPES!!!1"
asciilifeform: i could even see an argument for, e.g., laser, if there were any place to put it
mircea_popescu: i couldn't.
mircea_popescu: "my rifle doesn't work in the fog" "oh you're one of those, are you"
asciilifeform: from pov of 'risk homeostasis' it is bad idea, yes.
mircea_popescu: anyway, go watch people use their sighted item, score them for corectness, be amazed.
asciilifeform: because psychology: result is never 'normal rifle but even +9999 accuracy on a clear day'
asciilifeform: but instead 'sarge, too much fog, i cant shoot'
mircea_popescu: fucking training sargents don't pass. then people wonder why it takes 3mn rounds/kill. 99% it's not the fucking hardware
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unfair stat, it is disingenuous to count suppressive fire in the total 'to kill'
mircea_popescu: o it is ?
asciilifeform: well yes, if yer firing to keep enemy pinned so you can shell him properly
mircea_popescu: guess what, it's unfair to count "defensive allocation" into the heap!
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
mircea_popescu: why the fuck not, let's redefine a cultural notion of fairness unbased on reality.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is a '1shot1kill' sort of fella , i get it
mircea_popescu: no, i'm not. but if you fire the round you've fired the round.
mircea_popescu: there's no "i fired it but it dun count because isis and shiva"
asciilifeform: suppressive fire is how we even got these cheap 'inaccurate bullet tossers' to begin with.
mircea_popescu: worst fucking habit of grunts, that even half-competent trainer is permanently at war with, is "fire when out of ideas".
asciilifeform: if you dun believe in suppressivefire, the correct rifle is a mosin.
mircea_popescu: also how units fail to achieve veteran status.,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's suppressive fire directed at pinning down the enemy ; and then there's suppressive fire directed at silencing that little voice in own head going "you're such a fucking idiot..."
asciilifeform: this is curable.
asciilifeform: hunchback-style.
asciilifeform: idiot runs out of ammo and dies.
mircea_popescu: hence "units that don't make it to veteran status"
asciilifeform: << is this a reference? i should much like to know where
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 17:32 mircea_popescu: first, i will crack all your fingers in the piano. THEN you MAY be allowed to buy ancient laptop and learn to gpg, MAYBE.
asciilifeform: it sounds delicious
mircea_popescu: i just came up with it.
asciilifeform: << go to a gallery sometime and pick up m16, it feels cheap, light, like a toy
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 17:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a lot of the guy's complaints are in the direction of "this is too heavy too hard too etc" reminiscent of "beautiful one tries to go to war"
asciilifeform: even american grunts in vietnam made wisecracks about 'you can tell, it's Mattell'
asciilifeform: (large toy maker at the time)
mircea_popescu: barbie, rite ?
asciilifeform: but also toy soldiers
asciilifeform: hence the rhyme
asciilifeform: but IT HAS GOOD API!1111
asciilifeform: (quite seriously, whole thing is covered in rack to which can Hang Shit Off)
asciilifeform: all but the barrel
mircea_popescu: skulls of enemy ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: lulzy
asciilifeform: to what addr would they move it? the unknown one, engraved inside his eyelid?
asciilifeform: yes, this is supposed to be a tr0l0l, but still poorly thought through.
mats: what is hard about zeroing a scope?!
asciilifeform: mats: that scope makes 0 sense on a weapon designed for use at musketry range ?
mats: scope is great for close quarters combat you know
mats: dun need to put your chin to align dot to chest
asciilifeform: mats has a pair of eyes in his groin ?
mats: there are different kinds of scope
asciilifeform: with the exception of laser, they all require eyes to be approx level with the glass, neh?
mats: no
asciilifeform: link to example ?
mats: I forget if it's the acog or eotech
asciilifeform: eotech makes a thing that comes with eyes you can implant in your ballsack ?
asciilifeform: it wasn't in the catalogue i read...
mats: there is more than one rifle ready position
mats: I was trained to use low ready when breaching, it's close enough to align dot against enemy two meters away
asciilifeform: this is what, barrel at chest level ?
asciilifeform can picture it.
asciilifeform: mats: i always wondered, what keeps the mirrors, prisms, etc in that $700 box from whanging out of alignment after 1000 shots
mats: no idea
mats: I got an acog and it was garbage
asciilifeform: what do they actually issue ?
asciilifeform: or does each grunt buy whatever
mats: unit dependent, if they're with a unit that has resources they usually go for eotechs afaik
mats: nah it has nsn, supply sgt orders them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would expect "mommentum allignment". ie, engineer the parts so that sudden acceleration moves them all equally.
mircea_popescu: much like temperature range mechanical resistance is obtained through "thermic allignment" ie, put items that dilate/contract same together.
asciilifeform: that this is the abstract 'how' - yes. but achieved ?
asciilifeform: and how much sense does it make to gild this lily for infantryman (vs sniper) ?
mircea_popescu: "ceramics"!
asciilifeform: psychoceramics.
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, i expect polished leaded glass encased in composite material of same density.
asciilifeform: thing is, it is not only about inertia, but also shock wave
asciilifeform: unless you can also conjure up materials with ~same speed of sound~, there will be refraction
asciilifeform: and tearing
mircea_popescu: conjure, conjure.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, apparently folx do occasionally read asciilifeform's site,
asciilifeform: ^ spoiler: he never found one
asciilifeform: but tried.
asciilifeform: ^ one useful find, he turned up some boxes where the connector is on ~under~ side of mb, and difficult to inspect
asciilifeform: fella claims to be ~66 y.o., which makes him my oldest (known) reader.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for all the jacking off and cumbiscuit eating, that thing is just a stupid "oh, jtags, can you make a windows program that keeps flashing them ???"
mircea_popescu: about 1.5/10 on the scale of things.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mno, not what jtag is for
asciilifeform: it gets you start/stop cpu and arbitrary bus cycles
asciilifeform: y'know, factory test plug.
mircea_popescu: yes. deliberately. this is as much an "exploit" as stealing electricity from the pole is "fighting the man".
mircea_popescu: ghetto level nigger bs.
asciilifeform: what to ~do~ with it, is up to the user's imagination !
asciilifeform: it isn't 'exploit', that was idiot media spin, it is simply a handy place to plant a widget.
asciilifeform: (and its existence was, apparently, quite surprising to the monkeys, who never once gave a thought to subj of how mb is tested at factory)
asciilifeform: at any rate, and as i wrote long ago, imho soldered-in 'bugs' are quite obsolete - there is built-in hole in ~everything made for eons now.
mircea_popescu: pretty fucking distant from the "magical computing owning rays" the meta-nsa afficionados keep pretending.
asciilifeform: (and in what there is not, can be replaced in the post for a physically-indistinguishable version that does)
asciilifeform: incidentally, ~every piece of silicon on the board has a debug port of some form, the cpu jtag thing is simply the handiest one, and the closest to being in some form documented.
asciilifeform: (southbridge, for instance, has - own. gpu - own. etc)
mircea_popescu: basically, the "remove symbols table" tech hasn't reached hardware.
asciilifeform: it would not be so hard to implement, just put antifuse link in the relevant circuit
asciilifeform: done testing ? blow.
mircea_popescu: or just take the whole thing out for production.
asciilifeform: problem is that , as with nearly every aspect of vlsi, the described function is ~promise~ not protocol.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mno, you cannot take it out. because then cannot test the unit.
mircea_popescu: test the design ; produce units.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as % yield.
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as replacement policy.
deedbot: [Qntra] HSBC Executive Arrested For Inside Trading -
asciilifeform: if you dun test the chipz before soldering'em down, you go broke.
ben_vulpes: moreover there is quality binning to be done.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you USED TO go broke. in you know, 1976.
asciilifeform: you go broke today
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha. bs.
asciilifeform: and 100 yrs from now.
asciilifeform: when you solder 1 dud to 99 working components you paid for.
asciilifeform: on same board.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't make me package your 100 years from now separately.
asciilifeform: fact is, you dun test ~everything~ that can be tested before it costs you perfectly working and costly rest-of-the-box, you go broke.
asciilifeform: but there is such a thing as antifuse.
asciilifeform: can make 'we tested, we're done nao.'
asciilifeform: afaik no one does.
mircea_popescu: wouldja stop clinking to the supid idea ? antifuse my arse.
asciilifeform: i will listen to this nonsense after mircea_popescu has a plane built according to this philosophy and flies in it.
asciilifeform: let's test whole thing!1111
asciilifeform: why test parts!
mircea_popescu: if that's when you listen, the fact that you listen or don't listen no longer matters.
asciilifeform: it is nonsense, what can i say. and the folks who build machine this way, will come to grief.
mircea_popescu: prototyping dongles don't belong in production item. full fucking stop and enough of the "oh but mah convenience" talk.
mircea_popescu: the folks who don't will hang.
asciilifeform: until silicon can be made piecewise, like a printer page, rather than photographically by the million copies, we are stuck with it. (and antifuse costs 0 and eliminates problem, so i have nfi what mircea_popescu is smoking)
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .999 ** 100
gribble: 0.904792147114
asciilifeform: thing is, computer rides on 'promise', not protocol, because there is no way of inspecting the dies.
asciilifeform: hence a method of printing one-offs MUST be discovered.
mircea_popescu: if you have 100 components, you end up having to throw out so many motherboards of this fascinating imaginary type taking 100 chips that you increase price by 10%
mircea_popescu: whopdedoo
asciilifeform: until then, we are in a state of sin regardless of how.
mircea_popescu: this isn't the fucking 70s to have single-nine chip process.
asciilifeform: this is one of the reasons i wrote 'must have fpga, with quartz window'. you can inspect a ~regular~ geometric structure far more easily than any other kind
asciilifeform: (can even use ~analogue~ optical comparator! ever seen one? they used to exist in machine shops.)
asciilifeform: at any rate, until this, whether or not chip maker listens to mircea_popescu and omits test circuit or not, the buyer CANNOT verify
mircea_popescu is smoking the "fuck you, you have no rights, engineer is not a person" blend, of the same exact make as seen in debate over "oh but proper V hurts mah self-importance of codrwriter"
asciilifeform: that's the real boojum, and not only of this, but of all other questions re chip.
mircea_popescu: sure. but while that is a practical problem, this is a mental bug.
mircea_popescu: "oh, it is ok to leave tags on the clothes". no, it's not. fuck you.
asciilifeform: it is 1920s and armies are interested in aviation! except for mircea_popescu's army. he instead ordered all conscripts who can't jump 10,000 metres in the air and stay up by flapping their wings, shot !
asciilifeform: mega-airplane.
asciilifeform: sometimes there are actual constraints...
mircea_popescu: they woudn't dare.
asciilifeform ~likes~ this approach. but it has limitations.
mircea_popescu: you've seen the calculation of actual constraints above.
mircea_popescu: if your chip process doesn't yield three nines you get the choice of jumping 10k feet in the air or being shit.
mircea_popescu: same difference.
asciilifeform: incidentally
asciilifeform: i bet the chinese dun test no moar.
asciilifeform: judging by what i get in the crates here.
asciilifeform: so i suspect they are already following mircea_popescu's tip.
asciilifeform: the defective transistors no longer 'packaged separately for your convenience esteemed sir'
mircea_popescu: because it's not actually worth testing.
mircea_popescu: this is an unavoidable next stop on the rail that begins with "not worth repairing"
asciilifeform: likely.
asciilifeform: it won't be pretty.
asciilifeform: picture, you assemble machine and have WHOLLY NFI why it dun go.
asciilifeform: now it is O(N^2) process to learn why.
mircea_popescu: oh, you mean like presently ?
asciilifeform: and you need duplicates of ALL parts.
asciilifeform: it will be like building computer in su
asciilifeform: you needs bins of ALL parts etc.
mircea_popescu: out of t parts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu probably saw how it was done.
mircea_popescu: funny thing is - they didn't even have the sense to USE TWO BINS
mircea_popescu: they'd just put the shit back in.
asciilifeform: where my father worked they had always 3 bins.
mircea_popescu: "who knows, maybe later it changes its mind"
mircea_popescu: so production always followed a downward trend.
asciilifeform: 1 - 'army' 2 - 'konsoomer' 3 - 'hobbyist & school'
asciilifeform: 1 - 'works' 2- 'sometimes works' 3 - ~dun work
shinohai: <<< get it while it's hot asciilifeform, yer own private island!
jurov: they auction it in bitcoins???
shinohai: would be nice if not partitioned
phf: would be nice if there was anything good about that sale
phf: mircea_popescu: do you have a link handy to your mirrors of disappeared tlp articles?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 20:20 phf: would be nice if there was anything good about that sale
asciilifeform: i want my 20 seconds back.
phf: maybe if dpr came through with the church papers
phf: *dpb
mircea_popescu: phf um, iirc i only kept one, the one with the minimum income thing. you want that ?
phf: yes please
phf: thanks
shinohai: "Why Ethereum Succeeded and Bitcoin failed"
mircea_popescu: bwhahahaha
mircea_popescu: see asciilifeform ? they do, because they must.
mircea_popescu: they can't of their own power say "we learned this was a stupid idea and will not be pursuing it any further." it's there, they must keep pouring money in the sand.
mircea_popescu: the only thing that nobody could have predicted being the obvious future.
phf: asciilifeform: you happen to have a djvu archive of теxника-молодежи?
mircea_popescu: lol phf is preparing to take a shit.
phf: last moment preparations before leaving to my home planet
mircea_popescu: "This is how I know that anyone who says, "If only I could live in Mad Men time where you could pinch a girl's ass and not get in trouble for it" is going to be way disappointed if a TARDIS shows up, because they wouldn't pinch them back then, either, not because they are afraid of trouble but because they are afraid of girls. Exhibit A: you know what a TARDIS is." << guy rocks lol
phf: in other bunnie news "Why I’m Suing the US Government"
ben_vulpes: you're not suing the government, moron, you're suing usg.disney
ben_vulpes: "please to the pretty please to do what i want instead of what your masters demand? puweaze?"
ben_vulpes: shinohai: naturally.
ben_vulpes: part and parcel of financial license in the states.
phf: there's now canonical clip to play at the yet another demise of an excellent pirate site,
asciilifeform: phf: i dun have, but they do:
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 20:47 phf: asciilifeform: you happen to have a djvu archive of теxника-молодежи?
asciilifeform: << lulzy: 'The deadlock between competing corners of the Bitcoin community when it comes to hard forking, in contrast, spells doom for the currency, according to Tual. “As long as that’s true, Bitcoin will never evolve, and it will die, because what doesn't evolve dies.”' << 'we've failed to stick in the proboscis and so let's declare it dead, neverhappened'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 20:43 shinohai: "Why Ethereum Succeeded and Bitcoin failed"
asciilifeform: EVOLVE!!11 install web20! with round corners! on winblowz 10!
asciilifeform: on MOBILE! CLOUD!
asciilifeform: with 10GB blocks.
asciilifeform: 'or be left behind, die'
asciilifeform: 'Finally, and crucially, the investigators issued a warrant directed at the Canadian webhost of KickassTorrents. This was one of the biggest scores as it provided them with full copies of KAT’s hard drives, including the email server. “I observed […] that they were all running the same Linux Gentoo operating system, and that they contained files with user information, SSH access logs, and other information, ' << use moar nato h
asciilifeform: osts, keep moar logz
asciilifeform: run moar warez-as-get-rich ops, keep moar fiatola bank accounts filled thereby
asciilifeform: ftr i have 0 sympathy for folks who ~sell~ warez. i dun care if they are eaten by usg, or by crocodiles, or martians.
asciilifeform: good riddance.
phf: asciilifeform: kat didn't sell warez
asciilifeform: why did he have money then ?
phf: ads
phf: was in logs
asciilifeform: ~same thing.
phf: kat was an honest successor to thepiratebay
asciilifeform: tried to GET RICH off warez.
asciilifeform: this is a sin.
phf: oh pish posh
asciilifeform: for good reason: it promotes exactly the kind of centralization that warez addresses the evil of.
phf: guy was a one man torrent operation provided oldfags and lusers alike with quality prods, it seems entirely petty to focus on his ad revenue, and ties squarely into usg narrative of "he made millions!!!"
asciilifeform: from what i can tell, fella thought himself Too Good for wot, and for 100% btc op
asciilifeform: so reaps what he sowed.
phf: in fact kat was only place that, if you visited without adblock, would tell you to use one
asciilifeform: lel i had no idea. never used.
asciilifeform: it isn't that i particularly loathe this particular schmuck, but his fate is not astonishing, any more than the fate of a gay dude who 'barebacks' every night with randos at the 'bath-house', dies of aids
asciilifeform: 'nobody could have predicted'
asciilifeform: and srsly, 13333337 'undergrounding' from poland, the mecca of nato-fellating shitholes ?
phf: his fate is not astonishing, but only because man chose to throw himself on bayonet
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: what's this ?
danielpbarron: comment on porn site superimposed over stock nature photography
asciilifeform: i meant, what is the pictured item ?
danielpbarron: i'd also like to know, but if i had to guess, it looks like a cave that is located under a body of water that is draining into it from above, as seen from within the cave
asciilifeform: cave with transparent walls?!
danielpbarron: maybe ice
asciilifeform: possibly
danielpbarron: ah now i see that is snow in the forground
asciilifeform: << gold: 'Our recent generation of Makers, hackers, and entrepreneurs have developed under the shadow of Section 1201... Our children deserve better. I can no longer stand by as a passive witness to this situation. I was born into a 1201-free world, and our future generations deserve that same freedom of thought and expression. I am but one instrument in a large orchestra performing the symph
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 20:55 phf: in other bunnie news "Why I’m Suing the US Government"
asciilifeform: ony for freedom...'
asciilifeform: holy fuck, the 'law-abiding' schmuckdom on display
asciilifeform: like that imbecile from earlier thread,
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 18:00 asciilifeform: or why he collects megabux of donation simply to give to lawyers;
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lel
asciilifeform: pseudopyrex ftw.
mircea_popescu: <<< the incredible cheek of the usg scum.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 21:17 asciilifeform: << lulzy: 'The deadlock between competing corners of the Bitcoin community when it comes to hard forking, in contrast, spells doom for the currency, according to Tual. “As long as that’s true, Bitcoin will never evolve, and it will die, because what doesn't evolve dies.”' << 'we've failed to stick in the proboscis and so let's declare it dead, neverhappened'
mircea_popescu: what does idiot do, next month after blowing up own penis ?
mircea_popescu: opine about the competent. in faux superior tones.
asciilifeform: tries to convince everyone to remove theirs also ?
asciilifeform: then he can be 'whole'
mircea_popescu: the presumption everyone's illiterate in the anglosphere is so fucking strong...
asciilifeform: 'you have 1 computer'
asciilifeform: or what was it, they asked mircea_popescu, 'where do you WURK'
asciilifeform: un minimo respeto!11
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 21:24 asciilifeform: ftr i have 0 sympathy for folks who ~sell~ warez. i dun care if they are eaten by usg, or by crocodiles, or martians.
mircea_popescu: it is a crime to allow stupid people keep their money.
asciilifeform: from this pov, usg did a godly thing
asciilifeform: filleting the idiot
mircea_popescu: usg may not do good no matter what it does.
asciilifeform: just as he, earlier, devoured others
mircea_popescu: this is what it means to be enemy - it doesn't get as much license as to
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 21:32 asciilifeform: 'nobody could have predicted'
mircea_popescu: if hitler built schools in ukraina, they were still fascist schools ; torn down.
mircea_popescu: usg, no different.
asciilifeform: i can see this pov, i might not want crocodiles around, but there are still folks who can end up in a crock and i will not shed tear for them, even as we shoot the crock
phf: asciilifeform was hating even before knew the details, so perhaps it's useless to look for reasons
mircea_popescu: i dun personally give much of a shit, for exactly the "Wasn't in wot, isn't a person, can't be buried" reason.
mircea_popescu: but this is a minor point.
asciilifeform: phf: when somebody fattens himself and then, through sheer african idiocy, feeds the beast his own flesh, he is guilty of feeding the beast.
asciilifeform: were it not for these folks, where would usg even get any bitcoin to dump.
mircea_popescu: wtf is "1201"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: some provision of whichever incarnation of dmca, forbidding reversing etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly same place it gets them now. folks more than ready to believe, wish to believe, that "poloniex" exists, is trading etc,
mircea_popescu: heh mkay.
mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever, suing the government. what's the problem, let them have fun.
mircea_popescu: ftr, i'm going to negrate anyone giving interviews to this "jordan pearson" shithead.
asciilifeform: which one was that ?
mircea_popescu: motherboard nigglet.
ben_vulpes: hoho whyssat?
mircea_popescu: though honestly, the whole "vice empire" is very much the same sort of redundant object.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes link being in today's log.
asciilifeform: i suspect that m5 bolts will fly forth from my arse before they show up here, regardless.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: not to motherboard though?
ben_vulpes: << this business does *not* make for neatly greppable things.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not only this, but, the fella who runs is... not in my wot
asciilifeform: (iirc he was somebody mircea_popescu knew from somewhere, but - nevertheless heathen.)
asciilifeform: at some point ~will~ go down without being rebootable.
ben_vulpes: i have a hateful noise machine upon which i intend to install gigablast eventually.
ben_vulpes: there are other irons to hammer in the meantime, thouhg.
asciilifeform: it might be a good time to parse all the links out of the l0gz and cache.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with shit in trilema is that people go "lalala nobody cares" and then five years later they're begging for a reprise. kinda too lazy to go digging for the various comments of smartasses of the sort.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what's a "motherboard" you know ?
ben_vulpes: it's that thing the nsa jacks into
mircea_popescu: jus' saying, i take such a dim view of branding i'm not even willing to consider projects ; merely the people doing them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so keep a copy ?
mircea_popescu: also s/reprise/reprieve/ but anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i tend to collect copies, yes. but this is not a systematic thing, and won't be for so long as it has to be manually cranked.
mircea_popescu: so make a downloadatron.
mircea_popescu: not like doesn't present you with downloadable copy, preprocessed, if you're too lazy to make own html deturdifier.
asciilifeform: recall the wget -m thread ?
asciilifeform: somewhat gnarlier than it appears, this.
mircea_popescu: works on any page.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many of the more egregious turds, have runtime-genned-by-js crapolade
mircea_popescu: it is rendered, free of charge.
asciilifeform: works while exists !
asciilifeform: what is needed is a standalone works-forever.
mircea_popescu: did your objection change from "this free service doing a very good job won't last forever" to "my abilities to make copies it also provides won't last after it goes away" ?
mircea_popescu: wtf you want over here!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: is there an existing widget that emulates a 'typical' wwwtron and allows dump of the rendered material ?
mircea_popescu: when it "goes away" you will still have all the copies you made.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is so
mircea_popescu: and IF it goes away, and that happens BEFORE www goes away, which is the fucking plan in the first place ; THEN maybe we worry about this, neh ?
asciilifeform: but - leverage. i fucking hate solving problems in a way that still leaves me to put out fire when the thing inevitably catches fire.
mircea_popescu: we don't have a survival plan for www in the first place!
asciilifeform: recall how dejanews, and then google-groups, went to /dev/null ?
mircea_popescu: this being a large part of why i'm not impressed with, eg, schwartz ; or naggum ; etc.
asciilifeform: 'oh we dun need to archive, google archived'
mircea_popescu: if your thing dies, this says you're not worth my time.
mircea_popescu: it literally is RETROACTIVE dis-existentiation.
asciilifeform: the greeks were 'dead' for a while i recall.
asciilifeform: until undeaded.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, keep a blog, keep it well backed up, so that if phf asks, you can link him
mircea_popescu: there is no way out of this. inept, infantile bitching about how "php is too hard for me" and " might not survive" etc is just so much wasted breath.
asciilifeform: all of mircea_popescu's quite valid criticisms of, e.g., 'imgur', apply to
mircea_popescu: there pointedly isn't some "god of the rolls" that this is to be offloaded to. if you can't be arsed to save the .zip files after someone did all the fucking hard work you don't even know how to do nor can motivate self to even attempt in the first place, there's exactly no value you have to save.
danielpbarron: << I was thinking this too. If people are gonna archive links that's fine but it's better to paste the original link in the logs -- I can always paste it into myself if it happens to dissapear
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 21:58 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not only this, but, the fella who runs is... not in my wot
mircea_popescu: i suppose one thing we could do is change how a111 works so that on every outbout link posted here it a) makes an copy of thje page ; b) downloads the corresponding zip
asciilifeform: waitasec
asciilifeform: holy shit mircea_popescu what's in that thing
mircea_popescu: in what thing ?
asciilifeform: the zip
mircea_popescu: the... page
mircea_popescu: should be a trilema. neh ?
asciilifeform: go, see.
asciilifeform: go and unzip it.
mircea_popescu: html file + 2 images ; a trilema
asciilifeform: not what i get
asciilifeform: i get a 128k binary turd.
mircea_popescu: e162a9f7cef30be7d517a6a0103863ddedeea0597f11134e7952bbb28462ece45b570926d9cc42a1088bea8dd3a0e4eeb741a72a9c831799b06bd3a9041496cd /home/mircea/Downloads/
asciilifeform: with a <html></html> and then 128k of ???.
trinque: lolwat
mircea_popescu: does the hash match ?
trinque: I got teh trilema
asciilifeform: d7f9bc94bb14f5cd596b08d63760f9d6c609ec8165a5cb699ed9d3a5d873bc4ea111373323408f9af1ad3402a08ede01929e7bfe808c583045a1e83c1f564ac1
asciilifeform: (sha512)
mats: the suspense builds
mircea_popescu: 32748 bytes ?
asciilifeform: i load it again and...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the zip ?
asciilifeform: 131259 every time.
trinque: sign a hex dump and deedbot!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the zip you download, is it 32748 long ? if shorter, maybe incomplete transfer ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: LONGER
asciilifeform: 131259 > 32748.
phf: fwiw i'm getting a different shasum 512 from either of you
mircea_popescu: weird shit.
asciilifeform: loooovely thing,
mircea_popescu: well ima paste the b64 sec
asciilifeform: incidentally!!!
asciilifeform: i get a DIFFERENT 128k every time
asciilifeform: i download it.
asciilifeform: other than the header.
asciilifeform: possibly, polymorphic bomb, will be interesting to reverse
asciilifeform: have phun folx.
asciilifeform: d7f9bc94bb14f5cd596b08d63760f9d6c609ec8165a5cb699ed9d3a5d873bc4ea111373323408f9af1ad3402a08ede01929e7bfe808c583045a1e83c1f564ac1 and b8f9876e782c1f4681607404632ce5d11514ce5e3caeb0dead6f0110c39aa1c83feeb1f8ad009f26fd7ea70c9331933aa0f06fb497b1fe0148b45f76d3a97800 respectively.
asciilifeform: 131259 bytes long each.
asciilifeform: effect confirmed on both curl and wget.
asciilifeform: of various version.
asciilifeform: wholly different contents every time, OTHER than zip headers.
mircea_popescu: pretty bizarre.
asciilifeform: isnnit.
mircea_popescu: i get different hashes every time also ; but they're all legit zip archives.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zip unpacks great.
asciilifeform: but neither it, nor the contents, appear to have any relation whatsoever to any of my 3.
asciilifeform: the string 'jpg', for instance, occurs in none of my 3.
asciilifeform: (not in payload, or headers - where it belongs)
asciilifeform: dump'em out, see.
asciilifeform: phf: post a few shots of yours plox
asciilifeform: and anybody else tuned in, ditto.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is actually a zip bug.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: demonstrate ?
mircea_popescu: i was able to reproduce teh "weird binary with html tags" by running cli zip 3.0
asciilifeform: on what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's 32k zip unpacks great
mircea_popescu: on ubuntu.
asciilifeform: and has the expected contents
asciilifeform: the 3 128k shots - contain ??? ~with a valid zip header~
asciilifeform: that unpacks to... SAME bitwise ??? but sans zip header.
asciilifeform: and has NOTHING in common with the jpegs or html in mircea_popescu's 32k zip
asciilifeform: but, i suspect, is payload for some overflowed buffer in winzip or the like.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's this
mircea_popescu: that';s what manglemess zip makes of the dld.
asciilifeform: what was the input for this ?
asciilifeform: (you zipped an x? what was x)
asciilifeform: and is it same if you do it again ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i unzipped the result of curling the url.
mircea_popescu: basically looks like some versions of zip fuck up the directory structure, extract it as a flat file.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and your zip was 32k and mine 128k because ??
mircea_popescu: no idea ; i always get the same size.
asciilifeform: me too.
asciilifeform: i am speaking of the raw download
asciilifeform: if you unzip ANY of them, you get IDENTICAL file minus zip header.
asciilifeform: (which is to say, a length ??? binturd with NO symptoms of it being packed jpeg or html from mircea_popescu's zip)
asciilifeform: (identical to the incoming zip, not to each other)
mircea_popescu: well, fortunate that this oddity should pick the reverser among us to bless.
mircea_popescu: anyway - from what i see old cli zip does take the (correct sized, 32kb) file and spit it out as a single file of binary crap, instead of as a directory of 3 files of which one a html and two jpgs
asciilifeform: yes, i get same !
asciilifeform: when using mircea_popescu's zip
asciilifeform: which never comes out if i download.
asciilifeform will take in the full joys of the blessing when he comes back from meat.
asciilifeform bbl - meat.
mircea_popescu: ftr, i get different hashes for the dlded zip file, but identical contents for the extracted index.html (ie, diff reports no diff.)
phf: instead of investigating this mysterious zip, i spent time reading jordan pearson's twitter. he's special, he's like the worst parody of a 2016 American Nerd
phf: "why do white people charge so much for sandwiches"
ben_vulpes: > tinder social
ben_vulpes: wutdat
ben_vulpes: tinder, by the way, makes a hilarious appearance in the first 2 episodes of letterkenny
ben_vulpes: which features a character mircea_popescu may find amusing, the slut with an entire rural town wrapped around her finger
ben_vulpes: "oh, that's why you appreciate me charlie?"
ben_vulpes: "oh, hey, hi ground. look at you! how are you doing today eh?"
phf: asciilifeform: thanks for the flibusta link
phf: first time i see in the wild, oddly enough on a pdp-11 ebay listing
phf: (can be yours for like 10k or so, at 2k right now)
asciilifeform: phf: (via your link) quite a thing of beauty.
asciilifeform: i wish to move to the planet where ~that~ : is how one is introduced to 'the computer'
asciilifeform: and where 'the computer' is what we see in this www.
asciilifeform: recommended prOn, to all here.
asciilifeform: << motherfucking firmware ON PAPER TAPE, you can READ it
asciilifeform: whole lost WORLD of sanity.
asciilifeform: phf: log dead?
asciilifeform: trbbot?
asciilifeform: what did i miss?
shinohai: nothing yet, i decided to have a bot sit in here and lawg since a111 dies so much
shinohai looks at phf >.>
phf: hmm, yeah will fix
phf: it basically just disconnects and doesn't reconnect. provides for some diversion
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