Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-09 | 2016-03-11 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052437 = 2.3072 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web ... ( http://bit.ly/1TvcDRh )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> or did i read that backwards ? <<< seems so ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> for the 5 people or so worldwide << oif which apparently two here ?
mircea_popescu: assbot> RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web << this is not an idle comment. google, like every other usg item, like usg collectively, was entrusted with great responsibility in many fields after the war.
mircea_popescu: without exception it fucked up ALL of these. and not lightly fuck them up, either.
mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence available outside the w
mircea_popescu: alls, and more likely than not we'll be stuck picking between a warty rat and a sickly mole.
mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.
davout: i'm really not convinced we'll see a HF this year
mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced either. but there's the possibility.
davout: !s segwit
assbot: 26 results for 'segwit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=segwit
mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.
jurov: extract alf from mordor?
mircea_popescu: but hwat if the princess is in another castle!
jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?
mircea_popescu: well ideally a sane pow ; better ciphers ; etc.
davout: pogo's still high on my personal what-do-if-spare-cycles list
mircea_popescu: but by and large, a working miner people can deploy.
mircea_popescu: davout how's that coming along ?
davout: not much happening on my side
danielpbarron: !up kodemurani
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.
kodemurani: wondering if there is any discussion here on ether
kodemurani: Thank you danielpbarron for the voice
shinohai: Plenty of discussion here. When there isn't, there is a plethora of information in the logs.
kodemurani: Thanks shinohai. Going through the logs
shinohai: also that
assbot: Why your Ethereum project will most likely fail — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wbtsyp )
davout: "The lesson of the very well built lighthouse Bitcoin project, which has resulted in no more than a few thousand dollars of funding over the past years, has to be that there is extremely little value to be gained by introducing trustless escrow in crowdfunding. Even if you wanted to crowdfund something very controversial, where traditional web platforms will ban you, its not at all clear that disintermediating holding funds before cap is re
davout: ached is a big part of making this type of crowdfunding effective. Even worse, the project organizer could always fund the remainder of the contract privately, hence it is not at all clear that there is any actual gain of security. While it was a nice use of SIGHASH_ALL, it really solved a non-problem"
davout: ^guy has it
shinohai: Ether is simply a Rube Goldbergesque way of making money for it's founder to buy a lifetime supply of Retin-A. When he has it *poof*
davout: "The best case scenario for most of these projects is that there are end user benefits for other reasons, and that Ethereum is not required to deliver them. The complexity, and cost, of doing blockchain based products will in such cases eventually drive such products off chain, the same way changetip eventually went off-chain, and now recently into fiat mode."
fluffypony: davout: I made that exact argument at a meetup in Berlin last year where someone presented some junk they're building on Ethereum
shinohai: "This is the Ethereum app directory with all non-working, gambling and meta apps removed." https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png <<< I kek'd at this.
fluffypony: and I asked them why they were building on Ethereum, and despite much hand-waving they couldn't give me an actual reason
fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so
davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain
davout: 1. decentralized timestamping
davout: 2. making taxes optional
davout: bbl
shinohai: !up kodemurani
punkman: https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png << we have pretty much all of those here :D
kodemurani: That report on ethereum is rather discouraging. (why ehtereum project will most likely fail) :-(
kodemurani: May be true
shinohai: heh punkman you are right! xD
fluffypony: kodemurani: this is not new information
fluffypony: all rational, thinking people have known this to be the expected outcome from the very beginning
danielpbarron: welp, AlphaGo is 2-0
asciilifeform: moar of the same.
asciilifeform: as last night.
danielpbarron: glad i didn't bet
asciilifeform: losing at bbet is pretty much the only place i can blow btc !
asciilifeform: (it is certainly where most of the ones i ever had, went.)
danielpbarron: i'm pretty good at doing that too
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 << guess what ~i personally won't ever be caught dead doing~ ???
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai
asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
asciilifeform: because not separable from usg in any meaningful way except - DEFINITIONALLY - by entering the wot and doing a LONG tour of duty as a Real Person
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428468 << again, anyone who wants to follow a usg fork, can do it without me. and who wants to use a prb fork of whatever variety or rationale, can do it without me. ditto halfcocked crud conceived to enrich chinese scum.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:49:38; mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.
asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'
shinohai: I will use trb as long as it works on the overall network, failing that I will have to find something else to occupy my time.
asciilifeform: this pointedly does not mean that i am interested in attempting to wash the smell of shit off a rando sickly rat from rando sewer.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:52:32; jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?
asciilifeform: i am sick and tired of there being usg c/cpp code in the loop ANYWHERE.
asciilifeform: ENOUGH wotless nonboundschecked language.
asciilifeform: (i loathe ada, but this needs a BOUNDS-CHECKED language where i can AUDIT THE BINARY and NO RUNTIME COMPONENT / GC - which leaves exactly ONE)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428469 << l0l you and with what crane, will extract.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:51:47; jurov: extract alf from mordor?
asciilifeform: it would, i suspect, take me 1/2 y to 1y of UNINTERRUPTED full time to come up with the goods. which pointedly isn't in any danger of happening.
asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.
asciilifeform: i will repeat, i have NO interest in any 'bitcoin replacement' originating from outside of the wot.
shinohai: As I told mod6 I do not advocate surrender myself :/
asciilifeform: anybody who wants to surrender, can go and do it without me.
jurov: so whole shiva stuff is ded alley for you?
asciilifeform: jurov: it is for working on trb !
jurov: oh i misunderstood
danielpbarron: who suggested using a non-wot fork??
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence avai
asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.
shinohai: mircea_popescu is under stress lately perhaps and needs a nice lsd trip to put things in perspective :D
asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?
danielpbarron once had a 'vial' of the stuff; used it to put drops on sugar cubes, eat and go for bike ride in the summer
asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible
shinohai: lsd usually inspires clarity of thought and creativity tho.
danielpbarron: still had a little left for my great purge when i burned the contents of my drug box as well as some eastern philosophy texts and my karate uniform
shinohai: Heh I forgot I have mebbe 1/2 gram of 25C-nBOMe left xD
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:49; davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain
danielpbarron: yeah that's the question.. what to 'divest' into.. old computer parts?
shinohai: That's mainly what I use BTC for - equipment. (When I can actually acquire it!)
danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already
asciilifeform: i have NO use for btc other than escape glider from my auschwitz
asciilifeform: and this means absolutely NO use for sub-orbital quantity.
asciilifeform: except to 'hodl'.
danielpbarron: although without a bitcoin i don't have much interest in computer parts anyway, so that's a catch-22
danielpbarron: i had all but given up on computers entirely until i found bitcoin
danielpbarron: for several years even
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:00:57; danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already
danielpbarron: i got that hp workstation you recommened
asciilifeform: i recommended it ?!
danielpbarron: you linked some thing on ebay, has amd processer and ecc ram or whatever
asciilifeform: aha but i didn't buy it!
asciilifeform: i don't buy whole computer (other than portables, for restricted uses)
asciilifeform: and don't recommend to others to do it!
asciilifeform: notice how mircea_popescu pointedly also doesn't ?
asciilifeform: but re: the sommelier thing, i would happily supply folks with sane hardware, but this would 1) take serious time & effort while 2) wouldn't pay my billz
asciilifeform: so it ain't happening.
asciilifeform: just liek many other things, won't be happening.
asciilifeform: i am having to work 14-18 hrs/day (including slavemine) just to make some of these not-happenings possibly happen.
danielpbarron: how much do you need for this year off to build sane trb ? maybe we can crowdfund it
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i'd have to spend half of that year looking for next work.
asciilifeform: and half of what remains, as usg tax
danielpbarron: next work is maintaining said trb
asciilifeform: also on loose change from folks' sofa cushions ?!
danielpbarron: well i got nothing else to spend my stupid btc on
asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade
asciilifeform: but that is pointedly not what we have here.
asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428526 <<< have to disagree here, bitcoin had value to me sometime in 2010, the minute i finished the white-paper
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:41:33; asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'
asciilifeform: davout: value to me also.
asciilifeform: but i was speaking of value to usg looters.
asciilifeform: who have a five-minute attention span and atrocious tunnel vision, and need ~immediates~
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428558 <<< true, all these points neatly coalesce into "actually being money" anyway
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:59:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> the 'reddit appeal' of what we do << i didn't mean reaching out any further than in this very channel
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu believes (and i'm not convinced that he's wrong) that hiring people lowers them into pederasty. and he's the ~only fella with money here. so then.
danielpbarron: i have some
asciilifeform: we're talking about ~= 1/2m u.s. here.
danielpbarron: 20 people with 25k
asciilifeform: danielpbarron must have eaten that last vial of lsd! i sincerely wish him a good trip. but now i gotta go and start the engine and ride to the place where i sit on a stake for most every day.
shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.
punkman: you need $500k a year ?!
punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.
davout: punkman: unless these particular inputs are blacklisted by the Chinese Cartel(TM)
danielpbarron: is it funny?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: "Pederasty is an ancient Greek form of interaction in which members of the same sex would partake in the pleasures of an intellectual and/or sexual relationship as part of a socially acceptable ancient custom " << uh ok...
thestringpuller: "a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male. "
jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired
nubbins`: never too late
nubbins`: still no signed financials from s.bbet
nubbins`: s.mpoe still tanking
nubbins`: still business as usual
danielpbarron stabs nubbins`
nubbins`: * danielpbarronhugs nubbins`
nubbins`: wai what?
nubbins`: i thought you didn't like me anymore
danielpbarron: that's a violation of the rules you like to cite so much
danielpbarron: >> On the other hand professional also implies that you understand how context works, and will never ever under any circumstances omit relevant context when quoting, especially when such omission changes the meaning of your quote and the quoted then has to point this out to you like you were some sort of politician or assimilated retard.
nubbins`: which rule now?
nubbins` searches for something he quoted, comes up blank
nubbins`: danielpbarron your logic doesn't follow, again
jurov: nubbins`: i take it you're stabbing/hugging each other in the pederasty context
nubbins`: jurov danielpbarron has a lot to learn, he's come to me for guidance
nubbins`: he's a tough pupil
danielpbarron: at least i'm not the catamite in that case
nubbins`: o o o i see.
nubbins`: sorry, i have a script that changes words of violence to words of kindness
nubbins`: once i checked the log, i understood that you actually "stabbed" me
nubbins`: besides, i didn't quote you without context, i *misquoted* you in the *midst* of context. jeez.
nubbins`: am i literally the ONLY person who understands the rules around here?
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:55:25; jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired
nubbins`: BRUSHSTRIKE: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. DKSensoryOverload: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Eminent: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. Freshman: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted. JerseyM54: Font not found on the system; missing font has been substituted.
nubbins`: thanks, third-party graphic designer who obviously knows what they're doing
danielpbarron: what work did you do for the Ministry of Games?
nubbins`: danielpbarron i did several parcels of work for the ministry of games, in paid official capacity as well as volunteer/unofficial capacity.
danielpbarron: be specific? was it artwork or something?
punkman: is "lower someone into pederasty" a russian thing? the phrase never made much sense to me
nubbins`: we created all of the heraldics for the family lines (yet to be implemented), i also produced the first round of OS X compilation instructions and helped get eulorum set up / own the domain
danielpbarron: ah, so i've yet to see your work
nubbins`: correct
danielpbarron: i thought maybe you designed the item images or something
nubbins`: noooo, nothing so basic
nubbins`: we deal with "real art"
danielpbarron: wasn't implying advanced vs basic
nubbins`: of course not
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2013 13:46:32; nubbins`: sneak peek of a concept sketch for the Eulora heraldics: http://imgur.com/Rx0KQDZ
thestringpuller: did those ever get used in game?
danielpbarron: not yet
danielpbarron: no death yet, so no marriage
thestringpuller: placing art in that game is a PITA. the planeshift engine (on top of cs) comes with 0 middleware.
assbot: Logged on 17-10-2013 13:29:36; nubbins`: heraldry look OK?
nubbins`: thestringpuller sounds like a job for.... whomever
nubbins`: the only developer, i guess
danielpbarron: who is Pascale Horan ?
thestringpuller: Turning Planeshift + Crystalspace into Unity is like turning Bitcoin into Visa, so I don't think it should be a job for anyone.
nubbins`: danielpbarron mai waifu
danielpbarron: oh, in the context from which I found it, she was called 'he'
danielpbarron: or rather, 'his'
nubbins`: danielpbarron from "paschal", of or relating to easter. in various spellings, it's a male or female name
nubbins`: pasquale, pascal, paschal, pascale, etc
nubbins`: fr. aramaic "pasha" / hebrew "pesah"
jurov: thestringpuller what do you mean, turning them into unity?
jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them
jurov: i have not looked to doing art, only to network (de)serialization in order for lisp to be able to send and receive messages
jurov: ended up with horrible hack whereby in the process of deserialization the values are clandestinely pushed into lisp list...
jurov: serialization was not possible this way, fortunately client needs to send only dozen types of messages
jurov: i was thinking about it as potential learning practice for trb... but such things would make alf shit girder beams
thestringpuller: jurov: not that I'm a huge fan of unity, but after playing Kerbal Space Program you have to give it a little credit. What it does have is a large layer of middleware which allows for much better asset management. Whereas in Planeshift + Crystalspace it's all handled in essentially a textfile...
diana_coman: what's wrong with a textfile per se thestringpuller ?
danielpbarron: aha! example of wife and husband sharing same key! one flesh, one key! >> http://trilema.com/2013/15th-blown-other-statements/#comment-93968
assbot: 15th blown, other statements. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QJIACU )
diana_coman: re asciilifeform's meaning of pederasty in this context, I use his previous explanation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-02-2016#1416802
assbot: Logged on 27-02-2016 19:14:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other end of pederasty
punkman: diana_coman: ah I missed that somehow
punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?
diana_coman: depends on what you mean by "ideas" (i.e. desires in that direction plenty) and by getting rid of planeshift (code is already quite far - in a good sense - from original planeshift and yes, I absolutely want to take it further away)
punkman: right
thestringpuller: diana_coman: it's a textfile that has no middleware for artist to import assets into the engine. you have to either write it yourself or place the geometry in their yourself. It's 2016 not 1993.
thestringpuller: Take Source for instance. You open up hammer, import your geometry (as a map), press play and Half Life loads with your assets.
punkman: the whole game interface was a pain for me. I'd give it another go when that changes.
diana_coman: uhm, thestringpuller I'll certainly have to study that, so I'll possibly get back to you on this then
diana_coman: punkman, what do you mean exactly?
mircea_popescu: punkman well, maybe wehen jurov releases the slime client :D
nubbins`: thestringpuller / diana_coman it's worth noting that for a game like eulora, which should conceivably have massive amounts of art assets down the road, easier tools for getting those assets in place will drastically increase the volume and quality of em
punkman: diana_coman: i just hated everything about it. moving/finding things in inventory, trying to equip things and and ending up with phantom copies if I didn't click just right. Trying to walk and floating at a 45 degree angle, falling to death off smooth hills. The claim sticks that are "points" in space and keys and... I dunno. I suppose some of that might have changed already.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428491 << guy does have it. "bitcoin" as seen by the prb/social media crowd is 99% solutions looking for a problem by weight.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:05:43; davout: ^guy has it
mircea_popescu: and half of those are built in spaces where provably no problem existsw.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:07; fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so
mircea_popescu: why do you suppose wanna-be singer/waitress sends demos with britney spears' stuff rather than actual music ? "this is fashionable, maybe some rubs off on me!"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 << don't make me guess, supposed to be a strategy discussion!
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
mircea_popescu: and note that i include (continue with current bitcoin) in the same (intelligence outside the wot) pile. which it is.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:48:50; asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.
asciilifeform: pointedly not the same.
asciilifeform: like bones pre- vs post- h-bomb strontium.
mircea_popescu: 1 is, the perfect bitcoin. which, logically, would NOT conserve coinbases. as such, it has no meaningful humantime continuity with the present Bitcoin, and so it can be done at any point etc.
mircea_popescu: 2. is the usable interim continuation of the bitcoin prototype. which, obviously, doesn't HAVE TO exist at all points to 1, but it may help if it does. we're here mostly discussing 2, i think.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no proof you can produce for this strontium assertion.
mircea_popescu: note that hearn and gavin were "there" since year 2.
asciilifeform: it is axiomatic.
mircea_popescu: it was axiomatic.
asciilifeform: they were ~there~ but not effectual.
mircea_popescu: yeahwell..
mircea_popescu: the code looks pretty shitty...
mircea_popescu: in any case : while a hierarchy could perhaps be constructed in the "not in wot" pile, as you propose or otherwise,
mircea_popescu: this doesn't put satoshi in your wot, still.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, your objections as stated don't cut anything.
asciilifeform: but there were reasons why i was willing to operate on his crud.
asciilifeform: which will NEVER apply to gavin & co.
mircea_popescu: most of the crud you operate on was written by gavin & co.
asciilifeform: and i strip it away.
asciilifeform: and intend to strip ALL of it.
mircea_popescu: you ever seen what bitcoin 0.2 was like ?
asciilifeform: but this discussion is NOT only about code.
asciilifeform: a usg fork exists to enrich usg. and i will have NO part in it.
asciilifeform: and give NO quarter to satan.
mircea_popescu: looky here, maybe i'm not communicating well.
mircea_popescu: currently, there exists bitcoin. while this is soupier than we'd like and perhaps the collapsed eigenstate is slowly vibrating away into an undecided cloud, nevertheless, for the sake of discussion, let's say.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow, there will be : 1) mit-hardfork, run by gavin and whatever anand prakashen they can find.
mircea_popescu: 2) a vc-hardfork, run by whatever's left of prb
mircea_popescu: 3) a miner-fork, run by whatever that fat dumb fuck can hire on freelancer.com
asciilifeform: and where did trb go ?
asciilifeform: martians stole it ?
mircea_popescu: 4) to perhaps 12 or whatever, hardforks run by various nuts.
mircea_popescu: at this juncture, tmsr must make the decision if it will continue strictly with trb, or ALSO offer a tmsr fork of trb.
mircea_popescu: in any case trb isn't going anywhere, nor need it go anywhere.
asciilifeform: i'm fine with 'also'
mircea_popescu: but you should note, that there is no good reason to consider current trb so much different from cases 1-3.
asciilifeform: but i did say what i WON'T, under any circumstance whatsoever, be part of.
asciilifeform: and it is NOT the same.
mircea_popescu: you gotta be specific. what it, same with what ?
mircea_popescu: eliding the complements makes this discussion dangerous, both to us and to the future.
asciilifeform: l0l i'm getting ~50 baud here
asciilifeform: i will NOT be complicit in a reallocation of chainvalue to the enemy.
mircea_popescu: there is a very specific danger which you perhaps are not seeing. if indeed we continu with trb as is, and if indeed 3) happens, as these two share pow and we don't control .7 or so exahash we become extremelty vulnerable. recall the fate of altcoin ?
asciilifeform: NOR permit his dirty hands to further rape bitcoin src.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, "trb as is only" opens us up to being forced, later on, to pick among the idiots.
mircea_popescu: which is the meaning ofwhat i said.
asciilifeform: but it will mean that bitcoin died, perhaps to be reborn in~our~ planet
mircea_popescu: perhaps or perhaps. looky, strategy discussions are about strategy.
asciilifeform: but i will not spread legs for the nazis.
mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ?
mircea_popescu: chick's hawt.
asciilifeform: would rather eat nagan.
asciilifeform: surrender is not a strategy.
mircea_popescu: lol tell that to stalin!
mircea_popescu: anyway - what isn't a strategy is "if the bad thing happens i'll get really butthurt".
mircea_popescu: strategy gotta be about action not feeling.
asciilifeform: stalin - understood.
asciilifeform: the set of available actions is small, and, i think, well-enumerated at this point.
asciilifeform: if trb gets chainclobbered - it is 2009 again for us.
asciilifeform: but i will not fellate the invader.
mircea_popescu: so you propose to basically wait and see ?
asciilifeform: i will maintain trb, while 1,001 things incl. writing mine.
asciilifeform: but at my pace it will take 20y.
mircea_popescu: so basically you propose - wait and see on trb, meanwhile i'll also develop a fork variant which i won't either share or have ready in time ?
asciilifeform: archaeologists will, possibly, find it.
asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu expect me to suggest?
mircea_popescu: i do not expect anything, this is why this is a discussion.
mircea_popescu: whatever your position is, it may be, but it gotta be explicit so everyone can build on it.
asciilifeform: so here it is.
mircea_popescu: alright.
asciilifeform: and i will not spread arse for invader, and am not open to persuasion re same, hopefully this needs no further elucidation
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428545 << i'm not suggesting anything. i'm saying, plainly, that AT LEAST ONCE in the past, you sucked a cock, which is how you are on THIS blockchain. so the argument "i'm no whore" holds no water. you WILL suck others in the future - best make sure they're ours.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:53:52; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.
asciilifeform: well, old cock was gnat-sized.
asciilifeform: new - t. rex
mircea_popescu: hey. i have no artgument there.
asciilifeform: see the schelling point thread.
mircea_popescu: understand that if there's a summer of crazy, a NEW schelling will emerge.
mircea_popescu: i don't see the future well enough to judge what chances we have, but i do see the future well enough to see that if you have no horse in a race, you can't win it.
asciilifeform: it is like saying 'you conceded in a game of chess when you were 5, why not concede your father's house'
asciilifeform: but yes, i would like to have the horse.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428549 << could we for maybe 5 minutes stop with this "panic at everything mp says" i'm starting to feel like a fucking divinity or something.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:54:35; asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.
asciilifeform: i never panic.
asciilifeform: had that muscle removed (tm)
mircea_popescu: yeah well, it reads like it. anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428554 << ahahaha natural lifespam, im bashing this.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:57:10; *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:56:07; asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?
asciilifeform: the 1,2,3,might have to choose thing
mircea_popescu: and you don't see how jumping from that to this is exactly panic ?
mircea_popescu: what can i say!
asciilifeform: anyway i did not jump, assumed lsd.
mircea_popescu: things are happening with or without permission, as a general rule. either you're prepared for the possible outcomes, or not.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather we be prepared, if possible, and i pointedly not care how unpleasant a discussion may be to anyone's/everyone's favourite assumptions. so here we are.
asciilifeform: i prepare for many things. but i also use everett's device. so i do not prepare for surrender and cocksucking ignominy.
mircea_popescu: specifically : if miners come up with fork, what are you going to do ? so far all i hear is "blame de gods".
shinohai: Discussion boosts morale.
mircea_popescu: "de gods" are not there for you to blame.
asciilifeform: work for 20 y or until dead to kill them all.
mircea_popescu: too many chuck norris movies or something, srsly now.
asciilifeform: no, that's more or less my whole adult life to date.
mircea_popescu: did the separation discussed in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428706 connect, at all ?
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:31:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.
mircea_popescu: yes, sure, we'll be sooner or later coming out with the perfect bitcoin, or die trying.
mircea_popescu: what of this prototype one!
asciilifeform: it, as i said before, is our shipwreck plank.
mircea_popescu: not in statements of fact, we're not painting a still life here. what do!
asciilifeform: i think i explained what i personally intend to do.
asciilifeform: how ~much~ of it i get to do before dead, i cannot now say.
mircea_popescu: you realise what you're saying is basically, that ~you~ are taking off.
asciilifeform: if the alternative ever consists wholly of surrender- then yes.
mircea_popescu: wouldja try and engage what's actually on the table rather than what's in the noggin ?
asciilifeform: не шагу назад (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: jesus shit's hard.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:28; asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing
mircea_popescu: in general, when your preteen's sister's friends start taking an interest in your party, you're lame.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428590 << i know of no case where "crowdfunding" worked, in any sensible definition.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:00; asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade
mircea_popescu: yes there are some cases where it has redistributed some dollars. in this sense, the numbers racket as practiced between the same poor black marginals 50 years ago also "worked".
asciilifeform: as i said to the lsd folks, if i were free man, there would be a solid weapon in 1/2y - 1y. BUT this is a flight to alpha centauri, because i am NOT a free man.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ideas of a not free man about what freedom'd do to him are null and void.
mircea_popescu: how would you know ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu , who IS free man, can sit down & write mpcoin.
mircea_popescu: if there could be solid weapon in 1/2-1y, you would have long ago been free man. that you aren't makes the proposition rather dubious.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well i know what a cage is, and that i live in one.
asciilifeform: am posting from it now.
mircea_popescu: ok, now know the other part of this.
mircea_popescu: it's a whole not a half.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1/2 y of FULL time.
mircea_popescu: the discussion is a whole not a half. yes we both understand one half of it. now you understand the other half of it.
asciilifeform: but i don't have enough lsd to do that thread again.
asciilifeform: but as it stands i have about 1/10th of my strength to give.
shinohai: Here you go asciilifeform - arrange a stupid conference and charge a coupla grand to get a foldup chair in the nearest Best Western. http://www.coindesk.com/events/consensus-2016/register/
assbot: Consensus 2016 - Register Your Ticket Today ... ( http://bit.ly/1U58F1N )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428609 << doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag in the ~same sense it didn't hurt to come up with a specific named rotschild, which then didn't count.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:36:51; punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.
asciilifeform: i gave pricetag!
asciilifeform: but what diff does it make.
mircea_popescu: i do not trust it at all. i'm not sure you understand this, but AT ALL.
asciilifeform: it is accurate.
asciilifeform: price of not having to look for work for a year, hypothetically.
mircea_popescu: it goes, for me, in the same pile as xmas cardano, phuctor two weeks ago, and wahtever the fuck her name was,
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 00:01:57; asciilifeform: 'Élisabeth de Rothschild (née de Chambure; a.k.a. Lili; March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family.'
asciilifeform: someone asked for this number? i gave.
mircea_popescu: they are the things you say to protect from change, or w/e.
mircea_popescu: sure, you gave.
mircea_popescu: moving on.
asciilifeform does not like to waste bandwidth but generally answers folks when they ask things.
danielpbarron: what is a free man in asciilifeform terms? do I qualify by being someone who only needs to work full time for one season out of the year?
kakobrekla: "needs to" is key here.
mircea_popescu: i can readily see a definition of freedom as "one has enough resources to protect himself from the outside world". this definition is impractical, however, belonging to the sphere chicken world.
mircea_popescu: but hey, as a heuristic, works fine.
mircea_popescu: by this logic, the gardener who is free needs a garden, but the movie director who is free needs his own studio. the cost of their respective freedoms, many degrees of magnitude apart.
asciilifeform: i dun need a studio.
mircea_popescu: i was talking in the general!
asciilifeform: but do need a fair bit of floor space
asciilifeform: and quiet.
asciilifeform: and nonrecycled food
asciilifeform: and my library.
asciilifeform: i think this sums it all.
danielpbarron: what kind of floor space?
kakobrekla: with a roof i imagine
asciilifeform: climate-controlled.
PeterL: asciilifeform around here you could fill you list for about 20k usd per year
PeterL: no?
danielpbarron: and all the lead you could want!
asciilifeform: where PeterL lives? mongolia?
PeterL: michigan
PeterL: only flint has lead in water, the rest of the state has great water
PeterL: rent a 1600 sqft single family home for about 1000 usd/mo
PeterL: just saying
asciilifeform: and eat roomtemp-stable cheese? fuck that
PeterL: we have cheese here too
asciilifeform: roquefort is not any cheaper in mi than md.
PeterL: how much money do you spend on cheese a month?
asciilifeform: discussion involving 'downshifting' is waste of my time and of everybody else's.
PeterL: I'm not saying downshift, just get out of the land of outrageous rents!
asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ick << what, this is an argument now ?
mircea_popescu: uhaul will take half a btc to haul your library.
asciilifeform: but this is not a very interesting discussion. would you have it with, e.g., your lawyer?! ask him what pieces of furniture he could do without, so as to charge less?!!
mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> health is still ~1k/mo. << you just added another thing to the list, now we are up to 32k, still nowhere near 500k
mircea_popescu: he is a very good lawyer, and a hardworking fellow too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~.
mircea_popescu: also, health at 1k a month is RIDICULOUS. pretty much all over the world, cancer treatment runs you 1k/mo.
asciilifeform: i'm a subject of hitler.
PeterL: That is about what my in-laws pay, and they are on daily medications and recovering from extensive surgery/cancer treatment
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's an interesting datapoint, because 100 gallons of gas provide enough energy to haul 100 * 1.2 * 10^8 / 3000 = 4 tons of stuff
mircea_popescu: 3 km VERTICALLY.
mircea_popescu: so you're on the space station now, with your 4ton, ie, 200k volume library ?
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~. << gas was twice as expensive then as it is now
asciilifeform: aha but i hauled 4 ton through city traffic. about same joules...
asciilifeform: and yes, it was pre-iran
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428905 << why not try & persuade him to move to botswana and eat some of his children so he can charge 1k.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.
mircea_popescu: he is actually in one of those god forsaken places, doesn't matter which.
mircea_popescu: where he lives, that's middle class.
asciilifeform: so clearly mircea_popescu is paying him too much !11
asciilifeform: if middle-class.
mircea_popescu: not the line contemplated here.
asciilifeform: next take your diesel generator and persuade it to run on water.
asciilifeform: or at least see how much water it can eat..
mircea_popescu: looky, lashing at me is not liable to do much. the point remains that this "i could do except alas" line is a total waste of time and utterly broken in so many parts it's not worth fixing.
mircea_popescu: so can we lay it to rest and move on ?
asciilifeform: thread was not answer to mircea_popescu, who i think gets it, but earlier folks.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu is entirely welcome to answer 'you SAY you could do X if you were free, but i know that you're a tard! so you could not POSSIBLY do X!11 haha' and i will be powerless to prove him wrong.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even saying that, nor is it even needed. even if you ~could~ actually, provavly, known from my personal discussion with the all-knowing god, do it, what the fuck sort of arrangement is this, "so b-a exists so that alf can fix it" ? how is it better than you know, hiring microsoft to do it.
mircea_popescu: if you die one day what then ? etc.
mircea_popescu: so no, broken in too many places to be worth contemplating.
asciilifeform: ok then birth five spare alfs if you need them for all time.
mircea_popescu: this is what we're trying for here : a) birth alfs ; b) continuously.
asciilifeform: or write the motherfucking code yourself, why not
mircea_popescu: ideally they'd all be different
asciilifeform: i'll read and test it , i promise.
danielpbarron: how to start writing ADA on sane gentoo?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: if you have to ask...
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron iirc he published a gentoo mask few days back
asciilifeform: this is why i say that presently we have 1.
mircea_popescu: course... meanwhile things happened, might not work anymopre.
asciilifeform: and at some point my health will give out and we will have 0.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu will ahve to write code himself.
danielpbarron: yeah the sane gentoo part i can figure out no problem. just never coded in ADA before
mircea_popescu: there was a manual floating about, lesseee
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i never did either, before we began.
mircea_popescu: !search ada manual
assbot: 6 results for 'ada manual' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manual
danielpbarron: i have the manual even
mircea_popescu: !s ada manul
assbot: 0 results for 'ada manul' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manul
danielpbarron: on dead tree
asciilifeform: Pet The Manul. (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: ok so then start with the examples i guess ?
asciilifeform: i wish this were not so, but so far afaik the set of folks who understand everything from galois theory to O(..) runtimes to sdram bus timings includes 1) mircea_popescu 2) asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: the world is not a picture, alf. the world is a moving thing. let people be wouldja!
asciilifeform: and so far we have... what we have.
mircea_popescu: all the things that there are can in principle be understood, or as the old jew said (in fiddler on the roof) - there is a blessing for everything.
asciilifeform: in principle.
asciilifeform: in practice i'm stuck doing pretty much 100% of the ab-initio b-a stuff.
asciilifeform: (YES i appreciate folks testing, cleaning up, etc. ! don't feel sad !)
mircea_popescu: well, either that or screaming at all teh folk who try things.
asciilifeform: and i appreciate mircea_popescu firing death rays at the enemy !
asciilifeform: from his dirigible fleet.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ? << Brittany Murphy is hot? ~_~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i did not scream, we'd prolly be struggling with some 'golang' prb horror now.
asciilifeform: or java.
assbot: Black Book on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UilLYd )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform orly ?
asciilifeform: i've spend my counterfactual-juice for the day
asciilifeform: so nfi.
asciilifeform: gotta go get moar.
mircea_popescu: anyway, why are you so hurt by all this stuff ?
asciilifeform: well, aside from the motherland burning and my being powerless to do anything about it on account of sitting on a sharpened telephone pole, i'm having a marvelous day !11
thestringpuller: ah I was thinking of little black book. was thoroughly confoosed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see that angle :)
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the incredible insanity of naming a girl carice. carici being one of the numerous ways you can say cunt in romanian.
mircea_popescu: so Cunts van Houten!
asciilifeform: hey, englishers call gurlz 'kitty'
asciilifeform: which is not too far off.
mircea_popescu: i guess so
mircea_popescu: anyway, she's great in that film, warmly recommended - not just to watch, but also to get one of your own.
asciilifeform: holy shit
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428674 < yeah, "turning into unity" or anything alike is not happening. contrary to what alf may think, i'm not about to java-ify things.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 14:28:06; jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them
asciilifeform: eerom has an an2135sc by cypress
asciilifeform: which... is COMPATIBLE with ezusb !?!?! >>. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428437
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 04:16:24; assbot: Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )
asciilifeform: that i reversed in 2012 ?!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428686 << pretty much all engineering since 2014 consisted of washing that crud off.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:03:34; punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?
asciilifeform could easily sanitize the thing, if .... etc.
asciilifeform: hell, rotorize.
asciilifeform: in fact, you don't need me for this any moar, can do yourself.
asciilifeform: i demonstrated how.
mircea_popescu: in other news, phuctor server paid for yet another month.
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu . and my offer to cover it with own blood - stands.
mircea_popescu: yaya. i'm all about to encourage ~that~ sort of insanity.
asciilifeform: (re: earlier, i case anyone thinks that winblowz is 'too hard', i have win8 kernel drivers built with GCC and ~zero microshit code~)
mircea_popescu: static linked ?
asciilifeform: in the sense of not invoking dll loader at any point - YES.
asciilifeform: ditto userland.
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
asciilifeform would be quite stimulated to learn who was responsible for the ~30 btc flurry of 'yes' bets in the 12 hrs or so before the game
mircea_popescu: "No kidding. What a scam this site is. I suppose they're planning on people not really reading the FAQ. I mean it calculates the odds for you and says 1 pays 1 but that's a LIE."
mircea_popescu: what the fuck are these idiots on about ?!
mircea_popescu: "The fee should also probably be taken out of profit only, not the total bet."
asciilifeform: covered in shit from walking through heathen world, and they never wash, so still smell it
mircea_popescu: how about the fee gets taken out of mps fortune, and losers are refunded for good measure.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker....
asciilifeform: much as i would like to prove some variety of shenanigans re: this bet, i cannot.
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5fPD4 )
asciilifeform: aha, linked strictly for it
mircea_popescu: anyway, thanks god for kakobrekla's idea of implementing that calculator on site, otherwise with bets like these that draw loads of noobs (i don't mean to bitrcoin, or to betting, i mean to thinking) we'd have had degrees of magnitude more idiotic spew.
asciilifeform: but at any rate i would not be surprised if one day i learn that lee sedol was told by a little bird that if he wins he will have an accident like go seigen in '61
mircea_popescu: money is a better play.
asciilifeform: (well, no, i will be surprised ~if i learn~, but not ~that it happened~)
mircea_popescu: "win, either way, 1mn or 10, your call"
asciilifeform: or that.
asciilifeform: thing is, money is not much of a motivator to pro go players
asciilifeform: they want ~to play~
mircea_popescu: or maybe have other theorems to prove.
asciilifeform: (and to exist in the conditions where playing is a thing, for which the money is. but the money is strictly secondary.)
asciilifeform: very few pro go folks have other theorems, they start at 5 y.o.
asciilifeform: think ballet.
mircea_popescu: this is not much of a criteria.
mircea_popescu spent years hunting @ballet school. they do have other theorems.
asciilifeform: they'd better, given that they burn out at, what, 19
mircea_popescu: anyway. konspiraci isn't, on reflection and review, much of a persuasive explanation here.
mircea_popescu: computer plays like a shoe - true, but not just any shoe.
mircea_popescu: the same thing exists in bridge, the stickler old lady.
asciilifeform: bulldozer, in the end, always wins
mircea_popescu: usually makes a 3rd to 5th in singles tourneys or else somewhere 4-10th in teams. because her quarter tricks on minor points still buy a lot.
asciilifeform: it will still be a few yrs. before it becomes impossible to play on the net.
asciilifeform: or so thinks my brother, who for ~20yrs has cared for very little other than go.
asciilifeform: ( he went, so to speak, perelman, some time ago. )
mircea_popescu: sorry for his loss.\
asciilifeform: eh he knew it would not live forever.
asciilifeform: is not a fool.
mircea_popescu: hey, is this the fellow that used to game program ?
asciilifeform: i only got 1 brother.
mircea_popescu: well if he wqants to go perelman all over eulora... something could perhaps be arranged.
asciilifeform: ~ mircea_popescu's age.
asciilifeform: l0l mircea_popescu thinks he could afford my brother , ahaha.
mircea_popescu: oh, perelman takes money now ? darn, i should headhunt the original
asciilifeform: perhaps !
asciilifeform: maybe p even takes payment in the tree bark he eats
asciilifeform: perhaps he'll cough up a cipher for us.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)
PeterL: did mircea_popescu mean program eulora or play eulora?
asciilifeform: PeterL: prolly program ? i don't recall folks having to be paid to ~play~ it?
PeterL: well, S.MG is sitting on how many thousands of btc? surely that would entice anybody if spent
asciilifeform: PeterL: i dun think mircea_popescu believes in spending
asciilifeform: can't blame'im either
asciilifeform: spending suxxx.
asciilifeform: those thousands will buy some very spiffy tshirts when btc goes to penny.
asciilifeform: (though spending will still suck donkey balls then)
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428607 << Been raining. Have tree down to straight 5'3" section in ground suitable for art
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 13:30:05; shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was 'old-school' '90s games man, hand-optimized asm for consoles, 3d engines from scratch, that kinda thing.
asciilifeform: now works on dour industrial control crud.
asciilifeform: but at least doesn't ever have to leave house.
asciilifeform: (the games industry mostly left this part of the world.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i will have you know that yours is a very thin tree.
asciilifeform: tepes would never sit a man down on such a stake.
asciilifeform: it'd be over in minutes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, very thin weedy thing. But it's height had become a concern given it's proximity to the power line.
asciilifeform: (typically, tree was chosen to be ~telephone pole wide. so that victim would have to wait 2-3 days for the bones to spread, or to die of thirst)
asciilifeform: the stake was in ru penal code through the 18th c. so we happen to know a good bit of craft concerning how & what.
asciilifeform: for instance, you don't want splinters on the pole, the condemned bleeds faster.
asciilifeform: the last instance i recall of a formal sentence of impalement was, iirc, in 1740s, and it was commuted at the last minute to beheading
asciilifeform: but historians in the audience are welcome to correct me.
shinohai: How merciful.
BingoBoingo: Aha! I have three trees several times too big then and none the right size. I like the big ones though. Will have to look up primary sources.
asciilifeform: there is an excellent scene of 16 c. horse-drawn impalement in the pl film 'Ogniem i mieczem' ('with fire and sword').
asciilifeform: four-parter, took, iirc, ~40 years to make !
asciilifeform: longer than 'star wars.'
asciilifeform: mega-film.
BingoBoingo: there is also locust tree I am not candidate because it likely no longer has a solid core and will likely require its removal to be outsourced.
jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes i have got bitcoin-foundation.info domain, should i toss it too?
funkenstein_: <trinque> hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it <-- thanks trinque :) trouble is I'm not sure what base to regrind from
funkenstein_: this seems an unsolved problem in how to use V and/or my broken understanding of how to use V
danielpbarron: http://thesixthirty.com/news/chicago-cell-phone-jammer/ >> Although, if I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, how much fun would it be just to ride the L for hours on end with a case of Old Style and a cell phone jammer solely for the purpose of messing with people?
assbot: Wanted: The Chicago Cell Phone Jammer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RC8LrJ )
asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
danielpbarron: ^^ is now caught, 10k USD bail
danielpbarron: isn't that another "if you have to ask" sorta things?
asciilifeform: re: jammer: idiocy
trinque: publish list of mega-b00ks, or go raid whichever university is still teaching math/eng re: alfs
asciilifeform: if yer gonna jam, have 100 of'em, with solar panels, dropped by quadcopter on rooftops.
asciilifeform: take out gsm citywide for a month.
asciilifeform: this is kindergarten-basic.
asciilifeform: trinque: go, raid.
trinque: I was hoping for the reading list!
asciilifeform: this is mebbe half a shelf.
trinque: here's the thing
trinque: I've heard plenty of reasonable criticism of autodidactism
asciilifeform: i hate to disappoint folks, but i'm .. not made of book
trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
asciilifeform: armies is what the other side has.
trinque: for this very reason
asciilifeform: all i can offer is this other kind of force.
asciilifeform: while i have some to give.
asciilifeform: call it what you like.
mod6: jurov: why would you toss it?
jurov: i forgot i registerd it and now it is expiring, asking if you want to add it
asciilifeform: i actually understand very well why mircea_popescu does not want any of this to EVER become about armies of trainable fungible folks.
mod6: jurov: are you using it for anything at all?
jurov: also, just for lulz, got targeted spam - invite to bid on foundationcoin.com
mod6: heh
asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf
jurov: mod6 no, there was promo for .info. so i regged it and forgot
asciilifeform: l0l autogenned spamola
mod6: ah. i think you can let it go. we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' for at least the next 4 years iirc. (good until 2020), and im not sure about therealbitcoin.com -- i didn't register that one.
jurov: ok
mod6: i guess therealbitcoin.com expires on 22-10-2016
mod6: so whomever may want to renew that one.
jurov: it's me too, i'll keep it for ml
mod6: sweet thank jurov
trinque: asciilifeform: what does asking for a list of books have to do with fungible cogs
trinque: I can see very well that you're not engaging me on the turf I proposed
trinque: *they* made this world, and what is the proposal for the other? I suppose engineers and mathematicians will burst from the womb having spent 9 months proving theorems
asciilifeform: trinque: i think i lost the head of the thread?
asciilifeform: list of books for ~what~ ?
trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
asciilifeform: the OLD world.
asciilifeform: i fully expect that it will take 100+ yrs of AGGRESSIVE sanity to create the peoplecaliber of 1980 again.
asciilifeform: and 1000 years - 1880.
trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
trinque: *essence
asciilifeform: do you recall the thread re: how people born in '90s cannot think worth half a damn ?
asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 <-- one thing i've learned reading here is that this attitude leads to thermodynamic death / intellectual wasteland more quickly than i had expected
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has several useful articles re: how various unrealities will have to collapse in order for real people to be built again
asciilifeform: but it is not clear to me that those who pick up the pieces will choose to do anything resembling civilization.
asciilifeform: and i could not necessarily persuade them that it is a good idea.
asciilifeform: even if i could speak to them.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo. <-- I LOLed
trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand
asciilifeform: who said 'wait' ?
asciilifeform: go, do !
trinque: I suppose spartans just sorta emerged
asciilifeform: conquer !
trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans
asciilifeform: fix shiva so lispimage persists !
asciilifeform: or are you stuck in womb.
trinque: I have trb dev time today. it does not address the point made about education and its function in a culture
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has the canonical advice, i cannot beat it, have 1000 children, beat'em within a mm of their life, kill the dumbest 9/10th
asciilifeform: what else to say.
trinque: oh I don't know, learning math?
trinque: wtf is this
asciilifeform: teach the survivers, maths.
asciilifeform: hell, they will learn it by themselves
trinque: there are more books on mathematics than could ever possibly be read by one person in one lifetime
asciilifeform: by counting yer bonez
asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.
trinque: no shit huh?
trinque: l0l
asciilifeform: this is sad but true.
trinque: this is exactly, entirely my point
trinque: make the room!!!!111!!11!1
funkenstein_: ^
asciilifeform: i have about 1/2 of it.
asciilifeform: oh there is a trick
asciilifeform: one of the items in the room is an hdd with half a TB of ru text.
trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable
trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls
asciilifeform: what's the failure rate for making mircea_popescus ?
asciilifeform: and i'm not even a mircea_popescu !
asciilifeform: there's at least two full platoons of asciilifeforms for every mircea_popescu .
nubbins`: good thing
funkenstein_: how is blustering idiocy canonical?
nubbins`: by fiat decree
funkenstein_: aha
funkenstein_: i guess if it is repeated enough, it is indeed in the canon
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i dunno about your planet, but on mine it is state of the art.
asciilifeform: nubbins` !
asciilifeform: did that tx confirm yet ?!
nubbins`: yes sir
nubbins`: prepping the crate for airdrop today
asciilifeform: only took 3 days for somebody to malleat it, huh.
nubbins`: block 401820 for your records! i'd only re-checked this morning
asciilifeform: it was still in limbo when i woke up.
asciilifeform: i even was starting to think that i'd have to write my own malleatron.
asciilifeform: ftr i still see the high-S thing as a deplorable compromise
asciilifeform: it set a precedent for miner censorship.
asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.
asciilifeform: that are VALID BITCOIN.
PeterL: counts as a soft fork?
asciilifeform: it emboldened the fuckers for... what we see now.
funkenstein_: what's that?
asciilifeform: !s a miner problem
assbot: 21 results for 'a miner problem' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+miner+problem
funkenstein_: can you exclude me from your dinner even though I have a valid mouth?
funkenstein_: not that again lol
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: if miners can pick and choose who gets to use bitcoin, like you pick dinner guests, bitcoin is broken.
funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always
asciilifeform: ants are welcome to choose which crumb on the floor to eat. BUT it had better be INCONSPICUOUS and they had BETTER stay out of the refrigerator.
funkenstein_: unless they pay the fee ;)
asciilifeform: the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant.
funkenstein_: heh :) well having to pay miners for their service hardly implies something broken to me
asciilifeform: pay, pay.
asciilifeform: i have nfi btw why mircea_popescu sent a 0fee.
asciilifeform: srsly i have nfi, ask him.
funkenstein_: whole thing is none of my business
asciilifeform: maybe he hit the button with his elbow, what.
asciilifeform: none of MY either.
asciilifeform: but for some reason folks keep asking about it.
asciilifeform: and i will say, for last time hopefully, i have nfi !11
funkenstein_: lol anyway asciilifeform, got any comments about how you see patch order established for V users?
asciilifeform: maybe he did it SO FOLKS WOULD ASK!111
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i suggested 'longest chain with sigs S1, S2, ... Sn' earlier.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant. << I dun get it, how does miners not including your txn equate to raiding the kitchen?
asciilifeform: because the ants are not the purpose of the kitchen.
asciilifeform: they are parasites.
asciilifeform: and it anyone knew how to build an antproof kitchen, he ~would~.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, so if I would like to make/rebase a patch.. i should take the longest chain I have seen as the base of the diff?
asciilifeform: (maybe ants are not the best example, but ~the mold on the cheese~ is. mold is necessary and useful in the RIGHT PLACES)
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: longest chain SIGNED BY FOLKS YOU APPROVE OF
PeterL: so if your patch is not included, you have to keep rebasing it every time a new patch is added until it does get included?
asciilifeform: unfortunately yes.
funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order
asciilifeform: we had a brutal but iirc conclusive thread about this
funkenstein_: also if people don't like a patch SN which you have in the base, they will not get to use your patch
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:42:04; mircea_popescu: you don't "release" a patch.
asciilifeform: where mircea_popescu argues that there being ~any such thing~ as a shared-by-all checkpoint is a Bad Thing
asciilifeform: and leads to prb.
funkenstein_: this implies there is also no "included"
asciilifeform: theer is only 'included by YOU'
asciilifeform: in YOUR tree
asciilifeform: which others can CHOOSE to pollinate from.
asciilifeform: this is key.
funkenstein_: aha
funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree
asciilifeform: it took me a week of ??? and radiating high-energy frustratrons at mircea_popescu to fully grasp this point.
asciilifeform: also 'regrind' is familiar in the heathen world under the name 'merge'
asciilifeform: we have NO auto-merge for a REASON.
PeterL: funkenstein_ or do you just have to ask which keys are in his wot, and you can generate a tree from there?
trinque: funkenstein_: it makes more sense for you to make your own decisions about which patches you like, and if I don't like it I'm free to alter your patch to suit me
asciilifeform: ideally you would never have to transmit whole tree, right
asciilifeform: trinque has it.
funkenstein_: ok thanks for walking me through it
thestringpuller: PeterL: being a chemist what was the formative era when alchemy became chemistry?
funkenstein_: R. Boyle's name comes up often in this context
assbot: First on CNN: U.S. plans to publicly blame Iran for dam cyber breach | Politics - WPTZ Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uj1jqm )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Was looking at that actually, may make the cut.
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, imho as long as grant-writers pull the wool over the eyes of the grantors, alchemy continues
shinohai: Funny I was looking at that same article before gf came over.
thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry
thestringpuller: I agree we should stop playing fast and loose with the scientific method tho...
funkenstein_: well if you can get a grant from the king to do real chemistry by suggesting there might be immortality in it, why not?
thestringpuller: i don't think there are any grants for turning led into gold
thestringpuller: and we're well aware the atomic difference in the two...
funkenstein_: aha but micro-black holes, big bang cosmology, "the singularity", etc.
thestringpuller: "there will always be mysticism, just in another form"
funkenstein_: there you go :)
thestringpuller: but that's just congealing knowledge from alchemy to chemistry :P
thestringpuller: i'm more specifically pointing out formative moments like in 2001 when the monkeys encounter the monolith
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: my billz are 100% paid by 'alchemy'.
asciilifeform: like, e.g., kepler's.
asciilifeform: (well, he had astrology, same diff.)
thestringpuller: what is computer alchemy?
thestringpuller: trying to discover how to break sha-2?
funkenstein_: windows security?
asciilifeform: more prosaic
shinohai: I wasn't aware you could use "Windows" and "Security" in same expression?
asciilifeform: modern alchemists are 'clever' and try to claim small things.
asciilifeform: not gold, copper.
thestringpuller: I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years.
asciilifeform: not immortality - live extra day.
asciilifeform: same rubbish, but 'modest'.
thestringpuller: I dunno how all these people get malware in windows.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: typically browser 'driveby'.
asciilifeform: secondarily - via warez.
thestringpuller: I guess using my machine for single purpose- Netflix and Steam, has limited risk.
thestringpuller: would never use windows machine for exploring the jungle
funkenstein_: http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-believe-i-shall-destroy-the-stock-market-again-16327
assbot: I Believe I Shall Destroy The Stock Market Again - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xg36LW )
thestringpuller: you'll come home with ticks leeches and tapeworms
asciilifeform: i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade.
thestringpuller: impressive
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 18:12:10; asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429103 << well, that's why people are saving, learning romanian, reading up on old theory of law and commercial practice arcana and so on, neh ?
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:26:45; asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai".
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
mircea_popescu: !s momotaro
assbot: 1 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429131 << more complicated than that (for instance - i engage enemy on his strong turf all the time, i just don't engage it on its ~chosen~ turf except for final battle), but in principle sure.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:38:02; asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf
asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.
asciilifeform: (per momotaro.)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429146 << this is not necessarily unworkable - for a long time humans kept domesticated animals but didn't breed them in captivity - merely captured more. yet otherwise, sure.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:47:13; trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.
PeterL: thestringpuller I am not really strong on history, I would say 1800s, peer reviewed journals became a thing
mircea_popescu: PeterL "peer reviewed journals" became a thing in 1950s, together with state-funded science.
asciilifeform: and monasteries certainly did not ~breed~ thinkers
mircea_popescu: they were trying to emulate the previous functioning of actual science, which was very much b-a.
asciilifeform: aha, royal society, etc.
asciilifeform: everyone knows the story of harrison, the watchmaker ?
asciilifeform: the one who eventually - in his 80s - awarded longitude prize
asciilifeform: was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.
mircea_popescu: !s story of harrison, the watchmaker
assbot: 0 results for 'story of harrison, the watchmaker' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=story+of+harrison%2C+the+watchmaker
asciilifeform: it cuts both ways.
mircea_popescu: log can take one of everything.
asciilifeform: !s longitude
assbot: 7 results for 'longitude' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=longitude
PeterL: <thestringpuller> I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years << I havn't had to reinstall the OS on my mac in 9 years, it mostly sorta still works
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429150 << not giving a shit, for instance, in incredible short supply.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:50:53; trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?
asciilifeform: ^ his prototype
asciilifeform: ^ his final one.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429153 << amusingly enough, it's historically how it works.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:52:06; asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??
PeterL: <asciilifeform> i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade. << my previous job we had a windows 98 box dedicated to a piece of equipment
asciilifeform: PeterL: was it a mass spec ?
mircea_popescu: lol! how did you know.
PeterL: no, NIR
asciilifeform: we had both, and yes win98
PeterL: If it still works, why upgrade?
asciilifeform: mass spec is the worst, came with isa card
asciilifeform: no upgrade, ever.
asciilifeform: incidentally, ~no lab ever hires a reverser to build a new interface.
asciilifeform: because how do you budget for that.
asciilifeform: $MAXINT for rusty iron, but not a penny for hiring folks
PeterL: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429161 << this is actually a very juvenal-ish image. yet i don't recall it as a thing.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:05; *: trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> because how do you budget for that. << i have no idea wqhat the because would be, other than idiots. if i ran the lab i would, simply on grounds of independence.
mircea_popescu: and of course i'd prolly have a wailing chorus of stakeholder idiots, whom i'd tell the usual get fucked.
mircea_popescu: PeterL i only do what with women of a certain age.
deedbot-: [Qntra] US May Accuse Iran Of Office Computer Infection - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-may-accuse-iran-of-office-computer-infection/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429166 << the spartans "emerged" out of a well understood, well documented process modern man prefers to think never existed. specifically : the woman's job to push them out ; the man's job to decide which may live. and runts - off to the apothetae.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:36; trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans
PeterL: asciilifeform my current lab goes the direction of paying for "service contract" with equipment manufacturers to keep our software up-to-date
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i only ever worked in godforsaken usg labs.
mircea_popescu: PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ?
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429366 << Actually leads to pederasty. Anyways the Jedi thing was invented by the George Lucas hamplanet.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 21:37:58; PeterL: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage
mircea_popescu: let me guess, "nobody could have foreseen - no one got fired for following the herd".
asciilifeform: and anyway there's ~6 people you can hire to do the isa card.
PeterL: the equipment does what we want it to, what more do we need?
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is one... )
mircea_popescu: PeterL i tohuhgt you were scientists ? "this experiment came out right - what more ?"
mircea_popescu: uh i dunno...
mircea_popescu: !s negative vs positive functioning
assbot: 0 results for 'negative vs positive functioning' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=negative+vs+positive+functioning
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:26:24; assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429178 << he's asking you for the index list of that room ; you're not providing it because ?
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:05:42; asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429189 << cunt runs on perl, it is what it is, it does what it does. 90% failue rate may well be very self-flattering if the criteria discussed are contemplated seriously.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:20; trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable
mircea_popescu: 10% failure rate is based on the concept that a)most will be artisans, ie, gardeners and b) periodic war and disease anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429190 << this is sadly not much more than a restatement of the independent vertical credo, "where do i get just the facts". bear in mind that this vertical is a creation of the usg agitprop machine and nothing more.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:29; trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the books are the EASY PART
asciilifeform: and i listed many of them here.
asciilifeform: over past years.
asciilifeform: go and make a set of ~eyes~ for the books to be read by.
mircea_popescu: being an us style "independent" has about as much to do with independence as being a us style "liberal" has to do with liberalism ; or as much as the 6th grader's idea of "a lothario" has to do with fucking, partying and generally the dyonyssian world.
assbot: Queers on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj7Ype )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "many of them" != "here's list"
PeterL: <mircea_popescu> PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ? << If the equipment does not work the way it is supposed to, we speak to our contact and he fixes it, I don't see any abdication of job by manager here?
mircea_popescu: really ?
asciilifeform: my list is not complete until i'm dead...
asciilifeform: take naggum's list.
asciilifeform: it is in the logz even.
mircea_popescu: suppose you get married, and if you or wife need anty money, you go ask your dad.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't abdicate your role, and she would be wise to mary you in this arrangement, yes ?
PeterL: well, the company can pay me to figure out how to program it or pay the guy who built it to program it, it is just cheaper/faster for them to do it
mircea_popescu: (note that this is quite how it worked, for poor people in rural, feudal settings. recommended reading : http://trilema.com/2012/la-terra-trema/ )
assbot: La Terra Trema on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8pjm )
mircea_popescu: PeterL and it'd be cheaper/faster (== easier) for your dad to pay.
mircea_popescu: a discussion of whether x is an abdication or not can not be decided on the basis of "is it cheaper or faster". because of fucking course it would be, that's what abdication means.
mircea_popescu: you give up.
PeterL: do you fix your pipes yourself or do you hire a plumber?
PeterL: is hiring a plumber an abdication of duty?
assbot: Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8ALv )
mircea_popescu: PeterL i only hire plumbers because i know how to fix my pipes.
mircea_popescu: i would not hire, eg, "apple laptop fixer".
mircea_popescu: and i have not to date hired anyone to do anything whatsoever i don't know how to do myself. how would i pay them ?
mircea_popescu: (and yes that means i can read my own fucking x rays, and say to the doctor what he says back to me.)
PeterL: and you program your own OS from scratch?
mircea_popescu: no, which is why i don't hire osen.
mircea_popescu: i... don't know how to pay.
PeterL: but you use an OS written by somebody
mircea_popescu: so i do.
PeterL: so wtf is even your point?
mircea_popescu: you think that was a counterargument somehow ?!
mircea_popescu: i also use women i didn't make myself...
PeterL: I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here?
mircea_popescu: well, i dun know how it'd be otherwise said, so i guess we let it lay ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429211 << it is very difficult to get around this in bitcoin as-is.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:24:40; asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.
asciilifeform: quite impossible, actually, afaik.
PeterL: other than running your own mining pool
asciilifeform: PeterL: they can collude to kill you
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429221 << the "all data used to eval a tx is found in that tx" point is paramount and controlling here as there. no, they don't "pick and choose".
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:29:36; funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always
PeterL: with >50% if nobody else likes you
mircea_popescu: PeterL yes, i'm aware that if we felt like it, we could just buy visa hurr durr.
mircea_popescu: what's any of that to do with bitcoin.
PeterL: as mircea_popescu always says, "don't be poor"
asciilifeform: there must not BE a 'blackhole tx' button.
asciilifeform: anywhere.
mircea_popescu: that doesn't relate here.
mircea_popescu: "how to fly!" "don't be poor" < works. "how to cold fusion" "Don't be poor" < fails. what'd money do ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, maybe i have a better approach re the other thread. do you suppose PeterL that if you had to take a job with one of two labs, absolutely the same offer in every respect, you'd take the job with the lab that rents space in random buildings or with the lab that owns its own building ?
PeterL: I guess I would say the one that owns a building
mircea_popescu: by the same measure, i'd prefer the lab that owns its machinery rather than borrow it from unknown people in unspecifiable conditions.
mircea_popescu: just moreso, because machinery > real estate ever since the industrial revolution.
PeterL: Okay .... I don't know where you got the idea any equipment borrowing is going on here?
mircea_popescu: hahaha. what ?
mircea_popescu: a girl i own, i can order to plug into whatever cock i choose. a girl you borrow from her parents - only with prior written permission from owner.
mircea_popescu: which i suppose is as good an explanation as any as to why i don't marry : i own my equipment.
PeterL: we get the equipment, we have the manufacturers give us software to run it, then we get to do whatever we want with it
mircea_popescu: except not use win98 station ?
asciilifeform: btw i once spent year+ reversing (successfully) an instrument.
asciilifeform: de-winblowzated it.
asciilifeform: story is in the logz.
asciilifeform: !s tecan
assbot: 10 results for 'tecan' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tecan
PeterL: ah, if we want to run on win98 station we would have to make driver ourself, but why would we want that?
asciilifeform: but i was not ~hired to do this~, but for something else, i did it as an extra thing
mircea_popescu: PeterL i thought you did run it on windows.
mircea_popescu: could you have run it on an actual os ?
asciilifeform: and, INTERESTINGLY, i owned the copyright, and then spun off the thing as product, and NO ONE BOUGHT
PeterL: well, sure, but newer winblowz than 98
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how many of those things in production ? 100s ?
asciilifeform: because 'eh it runs anyway, so what if a postdoc has to babysit it'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 20,000+
mircea_popescu: sad huh.
mircea_popescu: this sort of thing readily informs me as to your views re, say, 0day mkt.
PeterL: some equipment is non-widows, like the NMR
assbot: MolBox LLC ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjarQC )
asciilifeform: ~still~ for sale...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sad truth of the matter dept, this is kinda why the closed box crud even exists, that's the vp : "by the time someone undoes the shit, it'll be too late for the world to care"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, when this was new, i even blew a few hundy on... google ads
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i believe it. "advertising" works as well as make-up.
asciilifeform: we even got a call with the hw vendor
asciilifeform: no shit, the swiss
asciilifeform: they hungy up once i explained that 'no this is not a winblows app, it is not a plugin for yours, it replaces 'evoware' '
mircea_popescu: PeterL it's just miserable management, whether you see it or not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: story is in the logz iirc.
PeterL: I guess I don't see what you would do instead?
mircea_popescu: only buy open hardware. if hardware is considered for buying, add the cost of reversing and opening it to the bill, to make a proper comparison.
mircea_popescu: ie, the win98 item is 100k in cash + 4,5mn in fixing it to spec ; this is 340k in cash + 0 etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is NO open lab automation sys.
asciilifeform: NO open spectrophotometer.
asciilifeform: NO open mass spec.
asciilifeform: NO open gc.
mircea_popescu: mostly because of abdication discussed above.
asciilifeform: well no shit!
mircea_popescu: there is also no us research worth the mention.
PeterL: asciilifeform has it, there is no open lab equipment or software
asciilifeform: NO open chinese or russian either
asciilifeform: or brazilian or wtf
mircea_popescu: because closed is always a competition of empires, and the chinese got 10x more cash.
asciilifeform: aha and their idiot crud runs for winblowz.
mircea_popescu: what do they care.
PeterL: except NMR
asciilifeform: and, notably, my phone does NOT ring with folks asking for reversed hw.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:40:03; funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order
mircea_popescu: "this decentralized paradigm is great, now can we make it centralized again plox"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notably, my tecan proggy allows user to use non-branded furniture in the machine.
asciilifeform: one would THINK this would make a diff to someone !>?
asciilifeform: but no.
mircea_popescu: wgat is this tecan ting anyway ?
asciilifeform: see my film.
asciilifeform: (linked)
asciilifeform: narrated, even, by yers truly
asciilifeform: long ago.
mircea_popescu: molbox labminion hehe cute
asciilifeform: 0 sales.
asciilifeform: so what if the thing let me use a 5k usd spectrophotometre instead of 50k golden toilet that has FEWER wavelengths ?!
asciilifeform: no one gave a shit.
asciilifeform: or half a shit.
mircea_popescu: quite problematic huh.
asciilifeform: not china, not north kr, not fuucking antarktica
asciilifeform: crickets.
mircea_popescu: i mean, this would be the exact textbook example of "work really hard, do something useful, be rich"
mircea_popescu: except by now the shitworld is so thick with shit, it "only works" for approved lottery winner.
asciilifeform: 100% lisp btw.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu has it.
mircea_popescu: "be less poor" suddenly a lot bitter than previously contemplated, huh ?
asciilifeform: i busted arse to make that thing. and afaik nothing like it exists to this day.
trinque takes off his hat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it makes you feel better, i'd buy it for the putative chemistry lab i don't run.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0S4NDZ2.txt )
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm sorry.
asciilifeform: applicable to other industrial uses incidentally
asciilifeform: e.g., production line
asciilifeform: anywhere there is moving gizmos.
asciilifeform: anywy this was long ago and now mircea_popescu knows some of the perspective it gave.
mircea_popescu: well guaranteedly you can't make any mircea_popescu 's thus, they'd simply burn down your world.
mircea_popescu: cheap way to make high iq arsonists i guess.
asciilifeform: which is what i am.
mircea_popescu: my experience, on the contrary - whenever mp as much as vaguely disliked a world, that world caught on fire by itself and cut off its own head.
asciilifeform: what can i say , mircea_popescu is better arsonist than i
asciilifeform: i came here to learn from him !
mircea_popescu: how;s that coming along ?
deedbot-: [Qntra] Microsoft Bundles Adware With Security Update - http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-bundles-adware-with-security-update/
asciilifeform: methinks i am learning.
mircea_popescu: well then i'm glad to hear.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429260 << this is actually quite reasonable. trinque : please rebase ? funenstein_ sure, which tree is yours ?
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 20:46:17; funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree
mircea_popescu: quite how this'd work in sanity.
mircea_popescu: (well really, it'd be more like "i'd like your x rebased for my tree, here it is, you see problem ?", but w/e)
PeterL: asciilifeform this robot thing looks much like what I saw at Dow, I never used it but I had coworkers who used these things for high-throughput research, I dunno what software they used
asciilifeform: now iam remembering things about lm, i had many nice things, had motion planning, could run the thing 10-20x faster thaan 'evoware' (we called it 'evilware') because mine was ~guaranteed~ not to crash, etc.
asciilifeform: PeterL: everyone uses the thing that comes with the instrument.
asciilifeform: because the alternative is the one discussed.
mircea_popescu: you know, you two could perhaps help each other ?
PeterL: yeah, prolly something winblows
mircea_popescu: PeterL get him in room to pitch his thing, make 15% or w/e ? asciilifeform you should prolly hire someone to make the pitch tho.
asciilifeform: sad thing is that i can't easily demo. my outfit never afforded own tecan.
asciilifeform: when the lab closed, we lost access to the thing.
mircea_popescu: a problem, perhaps not insurmountable.
PeterL: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is going to reverse engineer an LC-MS? and what, we get better performance out of it or something?
asciilifeform: tried 4, 5 times to buy a used one.
asciilifeform: fell through each time.
mircea_popescu: can you cleanly hook it up to an existing unit ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: every unit is slightly different.
mircea_popescu: PeterL well he did make the 10-20x faster claim ?
mircea_popescu: seems to me a 50% speed gain in high thoroughput research would be worth money.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is specifically for robot arms
asciilifeform: could not, naturally, make this claim for an ms !
asciilifeform: see, mircea_popescu, simply NOT USING WINBLOWZ is a guaranteed gain in ANY conveyor!
asciilifeform: but do you see folks doing it ?
asciilifeform: skip the ransomware, the usgola, etc.
PeterL: that was at *previous* job
asciilifeform: but anyone does ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see folks PITCHED it either.
asciilifeform: fwiw i pitched.
mircea_popescu: to whom ? how did it go ?
asciilifeform: to 5-6 labs
asciilifeform: it all ended with crickets chirping
mircea_popescu: did you try to close yourself ?
asciilifeform: what's that mean
mircea_popescu: when you say "we did pitch" do you mean, you went into the room, or did you hire someone who does this professionally ?
asciilifeform: we hired nobody, had no money.
asciilifeform: tried to get vc even, also silence
mircea_popescu: while i am not actually saying "well that's why", do bear in mind you're a miserable closer.
asciilifeform: my partner is not nearly as inept as i
mircea_popescu: ah so partner pitched ?
asciilifeform: (ph.d. in his 60s)
asciilifeform: together, we pitched.
mircea_popescu: you have to understand, this is an actual job, exactly as respectable as whore.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't expect to come out of your bosses' cake, on a day's notice, would you.
asciilifeform: fwiw he was well placed in biochem wot
mircea_popescu: at least not to any positive response.
asciilifeform: and many many folks begged management to buy our thing
asciilifeform: but always same reply.
mircea_popescu: same reply being ?
asciilifeform: 'fuckoff'
mircea_popescu: wow they say that ?!
asciilifeform: it is also possible that folks were afraid of voided warranties
asciilifeform: the instruments typically come with service contract, $xx,xxx/y
asciilifeform: the vendor cannot in most jurisdictions entirely forbid the use of 3rd party soft, but can make life harder for the user.
mircea_popescu: funny that you didn't even have to be sued by tecan.
asciilifeform: i was half-convinced they would!
mircea_popescu: my previous idea of "normally this is how this sort of thing gets killed"
asciilifeform: but tecan - cleverly - understood that they do not NEED to buy OR sue
asciilifeform: that we would wither away naturally.
mircea_popescu: and that understanding is necessarily not deductive.
asciilifeform: aha, possibly they made some calls somewhere.
asciilifeform: i had and still have nfi.
asciilifeform: note that we were never able to get capital to even get a demo machine.
asciilifeform: much less sell the whole orchestra in kit.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 21:01:33; thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for my own curiosity, was this ever on, say, slashdot ?
asciilifeform: why would it.
mircea_popescu: it's a good story.
asciilifeform: iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw
mircea_popescu: "here's how we tried - and failed - to do somerthing useful"
BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not want to put a final gravestone on it.
asciilifeform: i do ~not~ think the matter was of insufficient propaganda.
asciilifeform: the matter is that the buyers for this thing simply do not exist !
mircea_popescu: "putting final gravestone" and writing the above story are not the same.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw << FWIW, after sporatic success it has taken about "3 ani experienta" before I got rather reliable results infultrating the various web traffic concentrators to gather eyes.
asciilifeform: the other sad thing is that we do not have the capital.
asciilifeform: for one thing, deployment would require ~month+ of my full time at the site.
mircea_popescu: that bad ?
asciilifeform: to fit the thing to the instruments in question.
asciilifeform: this is not a mcdonalds deep fryer.
asciilifeform: this is a every-$500K-box-is-unique thing.
mircea_popescu: maybe the economics are just not there, let's try and quantify this.
mircea_popescu: so, what's the list value of the item in question ?
asciilifeform: 'evo' sold, in those days at least, for 250-500k depending on dealer options.
asciilifeform: support - again somewhere north of, iirc, 50k/y
mircea_popescu: ok. say 300k, +50k/y contract.
asciilifeform: this was for the naked instrument.
asciilifeform: straight from the swiss.
mircea_popescu: now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?
asciilifeform: case by case.
mircea_popescu: i need a number.
asciilifeform: very difficult to quantify. depends on what they paid their babysitter for the cruddy winblowz thing, how much money they lost to destroyed work on account of microshit.
asciilifeform: how do i quantify this?!
mircea_popescu: i have no idea, but that doesn't mean it's not your job to.
mircea_popescu: did you ever run a typical case ?
asciilifeform: there isa typical case??!!!
mircea_popescu: looky : a "typical case" is a convention, allowing management to make judgements.
asciilifeform: this is a every-lab-is-entirely-different sort of thing, afaik.
mircea_popescu: it is, much like the "average voter", "median consumer" etc, a fiction, made by some methods.
asciilifeform: we had 3 just in the building where i worked !
asciilifeform: and all were entirely diff
asciilifeform: in terms of workflow
mircea_popescu: i don't care how fucking different they are. typical case will be had or the sky falls.
asciilifeform: i went out and did intelligence
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you don't have the experience to discuss typical, discuss case study. the one time you tried this.
asciilifeform: found, later, that MOST evo were bought by forensic (police) labs
asciilifeform: which are bound to usgola
asciilifeform: by statute.
asciilifeform: this handily explained maybe half of my problem.
mircea_popescu: explain this.
mircea_popescu: no i mean, explain "which are bound to usgola".
asciilifeform: they have to use ~certified~ crud
asciilifeform: this means 1) winblowz 2) massive bag of payola to 'cerfifiers'
asciilifeform: think fda.
mircea_popescu: afaik they still buy whatever donuts they want.
asciilifeform: yeah but this is not doughnut
asciilifeform: this would actually touch the evidence.
asciilifeform: anyway ianal
asciilifeform: but this is what i found out.
mircea_popescu: seeing all the recent scandals with falsifications etc, i'd be much surprised if they even run the equipment anymore, so yeah.
asciilifeform: maaaaaaaybe we could have 'fought city hall' IF WE HAD MONEY
mircea_popescu: and in other news, omfg this provolone is magnificent.
asciilifeform: WE DID NOT
asciilifeform: and still don;t.
asciilifeform: because how.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is it like 10% ?
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?
asciilifeform: can be 10, could be 1000
asciilifeform: my lab tested custom compounds in vitro, some worth $50k/gram
asciilifeform: ruined sample is a loss.
asciilifeform: the competition to the machine was asian gurlz for $15/h
asciilifeform: they were accurate, mostly, but could not match the speed.
asciilifeform: but wtf woudl a usg lab care about speed.
asciilifeform: again if it helps to understand this, it is not a plug-and-go thing, i would have to show up in PERSON and work out the process flow
mircea_popescu: ok, so what i'll say is, "this machine, once deployed, would improve your workflow by about 15%, which is worth about 50k or so. it could also be had hiring techs, at a cost of about 60k a year for the machine's lifespan"
asciilifeform: and reverse any proprietary hardware they have that i did not have when i wrote it.
mircea_popescu: "the cost for its deployment includes me spending a month fucking up yoru shit, which is about 10k or so, and our fee, which is 2500 a year"
mircea_popescu: this about it ?
asciilifeform: approx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you forget that in a previous lifetime i made a lot of money out of insepcting and changing production workflow.
asciilifeform: though this is mega-lowball
asciilifeform: and assumes no surgical, if you will, complications.
asciilifeform: and yeah i recall
mircea_popescu: mega lowball ie, re cost ?
mircea_popescu: i can see why it didn't sell.
mircea_popescu: not to say it is your fault, tho. but i can see why it didn't sell, needn't any conspiracy to explain it.
asciilifeform: didn't say there was !
asciilifeform: and also recall that i'm a nobody with nothing. i dont;' even have the money to make 10k one month and then nothing for 3.
mircea_popescu: this is a large part of the problem. there's a hidden barrier to entry here, that is the "cost to enter wot". ie, as a manager of x item, i MAY consider dealing wioth nobody. but not over anything.
asciilifeform: certainly not a half mil machine!
mircea_popescu: much like the cost to send bitcoin txn, that random derps imagine to be "=fee" is in fact something like 0.5 to 5 btc PER TX, if you include EVERYTHING ytou need to run bitcoin payments,
asciilifeform: handling 50k/gram samples !!
mircea_popescu: just so the cost of dealing with some dude is not 0 in any sense.
mircea_popescu: just the fact that i have toi make an entry in my phonebook is $$$.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is SMARRT and GETS IT!
mircea_popescu: experience carries a long way.
asciilifeform: that thing was, if you will, my 'formative' naggum experience.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't take this failure to be more informative than it is. the technology never entered into discussion, it failed on economic grounds.
asciilifeform: certainly did!
asciilifeform: and the solution was 'stop being you, be somebody else'
asciilifeform: but all i had was being me.
mircea_popescu: not exactly.
mircea_popescu: ima finish eating and come back to this.
mircea_popescu: so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this trap is what informs the vc circus' derpage about "big" bla bla.
mircea_popescu: yeah, it metastasized into idiocy, but originally it's the very logical observation that the draw needed to make sales in b2b is much larger than consumer.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-10.log.html#t19:57:29 << "true quality ~as seen before~". ie, let's just call it that for the sake of calling it something.
assbot: #Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-03-10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ra55mS )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429740 << YES! which is why we called tecan 1st!1111
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 23:09:57; mircea_popescu: so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.
asciilifeform is not ~complete~ idiot
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 416.65, Best ask: 417.02, Bid-ask spread: 0.37000, Last trade: 416.7, 24 hour volume: 13751.63415602, 24 hour low: 410.68, 24 hour high: 418.24, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429741 << well not quite, he ~could~ buy the whole orchestra and sell machine+nonwinblowz+customization etc.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 23:10:07; mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.
asciilifeform: but usg would not sign off on it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00052301 = 6.1192 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: he would have to sell it in north kr.
asciilifeform: consider iran
asciilifeform: siemens sold them stuxnet-os successfully.
asciilifeform: because...???
asciilifeform: because NO ONE GIVES HALF A FUCK
pete_dushenski: or non datur ?
asciilifeform: no one wants to LIVE badly enough
asciilifeform: to make use of sanity.
pete_dushenski: or they want to live plenty and don't seem to be ~sufficiently~ dying on own petard for using winbloze.
asciilifeform: which is why it is important to ~help them die~.
pete_dushenski: god's work
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 21:30:24; asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> no one wants to LIVE badly enough << sadly, this is ~true.
mircea_popescu: nobody is used to the idea that fuck up and it's your ass. not anymore. because hey, "that's no way to live".
mircea_popescu: well... neither is this.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "only a cynical man would call what these people have lives...this is not how man was supposed to live."
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429640 << fwiw i even enjoy giving pitches in person
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 22:42:50; *: BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem
mircea_popescu: " 1]To whomever is now going to say "it's server fault, deedbot should output GPG signed material with proper mimetype like application/pgp-signature". I can only recommend frontal lobotomy by robot that fetches its instructions with wget." << i lolled.
mircea_popescu: in other news today, how to get married in japan : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
pete_dushenski: with wet floor pylons ??
mircea_popescu: i think the "slippery when wet" thing is much needed instruction for otaku.
pete_dushenski: and bukkake
mircea_popescu: isn't that "wet when slippery" ?
pete_dushenski hasn't tried. doesn't know
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCM9ax )
pete_dushenski: '500 Years of Jewish Life in Venice'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00052284 = 3.137 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: "Every Venetian I spoke to, Jew and gentile alike, had expressed deep pessimism about the city’s future." << sounds about right
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 00:13:54; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard
asciilifeform: !s momotaro
assbot: 4 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro
asciilifeform: jp folktale.
pete_dushenski: ya, just sayin'
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 00:48:50; mircea_popescu: in other news today, how to get married in japan : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: also i notice that jp, like ar, does not manufacture ugly chix in any appreciable qty. at all.
pete_dushenski: letting out of doors and manufacturing are different beasts
asciilifeform: they might feed the ugly chix to koi
asciilifeform: but i will point out that there are not enough koi, or even sharks, on the planet3, to feed the ugly anglo chix to.
asciilifeform: just too big of a job.
pete_dushenski: jp just figured out 'organic food' centuries ago. it's a newer concept to anglos.
asciilifeform: afaik they never invented eating shit to begin with.
asciilifeform: most folks didn't.
asciilifeform: until americans 'helped'.
asciilifeform: starvation was good enough for people-who-had-no-food.
asciilifeform: (yes cn ate swallow nests, crickets, etc. and sure. but modern mass poisoning ~requires~ industry.)
pete_dushenski: pre-americans also had insufficient chemistry
asciilifeform: holy FUCK kakobrekla i have 100% 'silentwings' fans, NEW CASE, WITH ACOUSTIC FOAM, and STILL get resonances.
asciilifeform: wtf, what gives.
asciilifeform: it it the motherfucking disks ?!!
pete_dushenski: shoulda bought silentwings case too
asciilifeform: i threw out 2, replaced with ssd for the cost of their weight in plutonium, i suppose now have to do other 2 ?!!
asciilifeform grimaces
asciilifeform: BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
kakobrekla: im curious, which case is it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00052284 = 5.0715 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 3 days now
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'
asciilifeform: steel, with silencing foam on 4 sides.
kakobrekla: im spinning rust free - i have a few 'hp microservers' for that running in another room
asciilifeform: i have the fucker standing on fist-sized sorbothane legs, too
asciilifeform: doesn't help.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: ick
asciilifeform: WTF with the glass, srsly
asciilifeform: that should be an inch thick foam.
pete_dushenski: gurls love it
pete_dushenski: "check out my sweet machine babe. you can see INSIDE" "omg that's hot [drops pants, bends over]"
kakobrekla: for case i use 'fractal design r4' which looks surprisingly similar to your pick
pete_dushenski: this is how i imagine thinking works in reddit heads, at least
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i am not a shrink, cannot catalogue every possible delusion
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this thing had noise dampeners and intake filters (bottom and front)
kakobrekla: yes same here
asciilifeform: the hdd fittings are, fucktardedly, plastic tho.
asciilifeform: i suppose everyone is expected to ssd now.
asciilifeform: old case had steel brackets with rubber grommets.
nubbins` has cheapest fractal design case
kakobrekla: mine are rubberized
asciilifeform: nubbins`: which ?
nubbins`: core 1000
nubbins`: ~$50
assbot: Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlHk6 )
nubbins`: rubber hdd groms
asciilifeform: has dampeners ?
asciilifeform: i really got the 'thermaltake' on account of the bottom-mount ps
nubbins`: nah, just spied the brand & blurted
assbot: Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlLR1 )
asciilifeform: (hole, that is. bought ps elsewhere, fanless)
kakobrekla: pretty sure that one is mine
nubbins`: vertical mount hdd thing kinda sucks
kakobrekla: the fan that comes with it is useless though.
nubbins`: given that i don't have a turkey-sized gpu
asciilifeform: i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.
asciilifeform: fuck fans.
nubbins`: copper bucket full of thermal paste
asciilifeform: nubbins`: see the immersion cooling thread, physics does not cooperate
asciilifeform: (unless the machine is DESIGNED for it from day 1.)
asciilifeform: like cray was.
nubbins` used to work at gov research institute in ottawa, massive cray in lunchroom behind glass doors
asciilifeform: immersion adds parasitic capacitance to pcb traces.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: surely not the immersive cray ?
nubbins`: yeah, as soon as i said, i figured that much muck wouldn't fly
asciilifeform: (cray-2)
nubbins`: asciilifeform nah
nubbins`: would recognize from a picture, but can't recall any details
asciilifeform: prolly one of the shams they made after cray died
nubbins`: only that obtaining time on it was highly coveted
asciilifeform: with intel cpus.
nubbins`: this woulda been early 2000s
kakobrekla: anyway, easy to cut power to hdd to see if that is the bugger
asciilifeform: then - crud, yes
nubbins`: long after glory
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: can't do this when it spins, will rape the raid
nubbins`: afaik cray never really recovered from getting chip supply choked early on
kakobrekla: i dont think i get much resonances
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it comes and goes.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it did not recover from cray being dead.
asciilifeform: tends to be how it goes.
kakobrekla: but then again i spin fans at 200 rpm or less
pete_dushenski: ;;seen polarbeard
gribble: polarbeard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <polarbeard> cpp is full of it
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i suspect that it is the heatsinks
asciilifeform: they are loosely-coupled and vibrate.
asciilifeform: (2 cpu board.)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: prolly he decided that we're a buncha nutters.
asciilifeform: after the 'regrind' thread.
pete_dushenski: this was news ?
asciilifeform: news to ~him~
nubbins`: ...^
asciilifeform: that he'd have to write every patch N times.
kakobrekla: for heatsinks i use http://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d14 (ofc not with default fans)
asciilifeform: fella couldn't take it.
pete_dushenski: this is why kids should read logs for 6 months before talking
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this physically won't fit.
asciilifeform: (on my board)
asciilifeform: again, 2 cpu
kakobrekla: theres plenty of models
asciilifeform: no socket F tho.
nubbins`: sous-vide computing
asciilifeform: it is interesting, i searched for MONTHS to find a new set of socket F hs, found NONE
asciilifeform: had to WASH my old ones.
asciilifeform: ~decade of dirt.
asciilifeform: vacuuming and even air compressor, turns out, does not really clean the inside.
asciilifeform: it builds up.
kakobrekla: "Thermalright HR-01 X" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052461 = 2.6755 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: where do you see AMD F in these ?
asciilifeform: i see AM2/AM3 and intel only.
asciilifeform: or, hm, there was adapter.
asciilifeform: sold out eons ago, looks like.
asciilifeform: but that this is actually very similar shape to what i had before.
asciilifeform: looks a tiny bit more cleanable.
asciilifeform: substantially top-heavy though
asciilifeform: will vibrate even moar than mine !
asciilifeform: heat sink should not be top-heavy!1111
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i have the dimms b/w the sockets, so this might not fly.
kakobrekla: and the world should not be round, yet ...
asciilifeform: anyway these look quite like mine, but stood on end.
assbot: Dell Poweredge 6950 AMD Opteron Socket F CPU Heatsink Y9115 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQnaa8 )
kakobrekla: not top heavy but all heavy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12544 @ 0.00052292 = 6.5595 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: the dell hs need dell mobo holes!
asciilifeform: notice no bracket !111
kakobrekla: fuck do i know what you have
asciilifeform: forever.
kakobrekla: anyway this ends google-fu :)
asciilifeform: aha, extinct!
asciilifeform: reminds me, i gotta get a few moare of those same tyans
asciilifeform: for if this one ever melts.
asciilifeform: (if it blows a filter cap i can replace cap, dead northbridge - no)
kakobrekla: i believe i managed to acquire even more extintier things
asciilifeform: next set of hedgehogs , i expect to machine myself.
asciilifeform: from ingots.
asciilifeform: one day.
kakobrekla: however it took time and luck.
asciilifeform: new hs is not top priority atm for me.
asciilifeform: after all, old ones are clean now.
kakobrekla: i could get a custom adapter machined here if id be in such position prolly
asciilifeform: what i really want is just a 1m long heat pipe from each cpu
asciilifeform: to a 200kg copper hog.
asciilifeform: 'if wishes were horses..' (tm)
asciilifeform: pc oughta look like a mains transformer
asciilifeform: the kind on a pole.
asciilifeform: zalman co. made this for a brief spell a decade ago, it did not sell, cost $3k
asciilifeform: turns out there's ~no market for well-made quiet thing, whodavethunkit
assbot: Noiseless Computing: New Case Innovation From Zalman - Introduction ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasE7i )
kakobrekla: anyway its possible it just takes effort, like i had to buy 50 high end fans to find be-quiet
nubbins`: oddly, my current mobo has user-swappable op-amp for audio output
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i've even seen ones with tube amp !
asciilifeform: yes, on the mobo.
kakobrekla: nubbins` yet still garbage
nubbins`: lel.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish.
asciilifeform: i don't care where.
nubbins`: kakobrekla i'd imagine a proper op-amp from the start would be cheaper than adding the socket
asciilifeform: nubbins`: presumably it is for folks who habitually blow the amp
nubbins`: lel it is a "gaming" mobo, so...
nubbins`: target market is obv idiots
nubbins`: gold-plated audio connectors! electrically isolated audio section on board w/ LEDs demarcating! zzzzz
kakobrekla: all integrated sound cards are rubbish. ALL of them.
nubbins`: bought because cheap
nubbins`: don't even have speakers hooked up to it
nubbins`: just the piezo
kakobrekla: yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)
assbot: GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket 1150 - GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 (rev. 1.0) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasYD9 )
kakobrekla: hooked to ~2 grand speakers - however this is not my main listening setup
nubbins`: we have an audiophile!
kakobrekla: audiofool!
nubbins` wonders if kako is vinyl collector or "other" type
kakobrekla: i have some records but not a collector
nubbins`: same, maybe buy a half dozen per year
kakobrekla: i havent bought any in years.
nubbins`: lots of newer pressings are pure shit
nubbins`: poor QC, not properly mastered for vinyl, etc
kakobrekla: i only have the old stuff
nubbins`: but it's just a cash cow now
kakobrekla: the new stuff is digitally recorded and then baked to vinyl
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish. << Aha, this goes to the power tool dilemma where unless paying out the ass everything is made by TTI in china and it is a competition between which TTI reseller do you trust most to preserve their battery platform. Not directly connected to this utterance of yours, but for some reason this is the one brian in the head clicked the thread t
BingoBoingo: ogether on.
pete_dushenski off to old theatre to watch monty python
nubbins`: old records are best, esp. if you have a spin-clean or similar
nubbins`: kakobrekla if you want to hear modern all-analog path, check out a record by Shellac of North America
kakobrekla: nubbins` i havent had a record player connected to my setup for years also
nubbins`: ^ frontman of shellac, also engineer @ electrical audio, who famously bought an entire batch of reel2reel tape when mfg discontinued
nubbins`: "we'll have enough to last us until we're dead"
nubbins`: wild, like a hot rod
kakobrekla: this is the source of the setup.
nubbins` has been sucked back into analog synths recently
BingoBoingo very thankful in this moment he prefers AM radio for listening to as this avoids very expensive path to financial damnation.
assbot: Arturia - Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQpC0c )
kakobrekla: anyway speakers are the most important part and dipole ribbons are where the music is at
assbot: SoulSonic Speakers ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaufKv )
assbot: Hot Rod (8/10) Movie CLIP - The King of AM Radio (2007) HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maugy1 )
kakobrekla: mine were custom made by this guy, a friend of mine.
nubbins`: i'm using a roland keyboard amp in the music studio and crappy infinity speakers on the record player ;/
nubbins`: shocking
nubbins`: kakobrekla there's a guy i know makes speakers too, http://www.areaudio.com
assbot: Are Audio » Are Audio ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maund5 )
nubbins`: will get a pair one day!
kakobrekla: i cant listen to non-ribbon speakers any more
kakobrekla: utter garbage even if made from diamond
kakobrekla: (cant beat physics)
nubbins`: i should read about these ribbon speakers of yrs
kakobrekla: no, you should listen to them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13393 @ 0.00052311 = 7.006 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: anyway, classical cone tweeters are problematic because of small surface and therefore large surface volume which makes ears bleed
kakobrekla: and there is no way around it but with large surface (and low mass)
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 01:13:16; asciilifeform: they might feed the ugly chix to koi
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 01:19:03; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'
mircea_popescu: (things are used widely in machining to find problems with mechanical movement prototypes)
nubbins`: ^ actually asciilifeform a simple piezo & some leads might provide some clues as to the source
nubbins`: could tape one to each component and still be out less than $10, even
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 01:25:31; asciilifeform: i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.
mircea_popescu: "first of its kind game of thrones case ; 1/4 ton copper alloy, blades"
mircea_popescu: prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.
mircea_popescu: kinda fun side project, this.
mircea_popescu: and yes, eminently crowdfundable.
mircea_popescu: give people pictures of you sitting on your casechair for $20 or w/e.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429987 << my ~whole room~ is (yes) isolated. inverter.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 01:45:30; kakobrekla: yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)
kakobrekla: the pops come from other parts of the mobo cant isolate that
kakobrekla: stand alone card doesnt have such issues
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 01:51:20; nubbins`: "we'll have enough to last us until we're dead"
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aha
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430044 << i'ma laser interferometer at it eventually
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 02:08:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly
asciilifeform: BUT i'd really much rathet be rid of all the moving partz!
mircea_popescu: i can't help but think i'm so blessed to not care about fan noise, loudspeakers, monitors et all.
kakobrekla: life is easy for blind and deaf
mircea_popescu: the last time i even used a headphone was months ago
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla totally.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 02:11:45; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe it's my time looking at ega gfx and appreciating golden axe music on the 8 bit case speaker
asciilifeform: hey i had same
asciilifeform: prolly longer!
mircea_popescu: how sub mm ? pretty sure they can make 0.01ish.
mircea_popescu: this is how all those fancy interlocking metal slav collars get made.
asciilifeform: to me games ~still~ mean msdos.
mircea_popescu: sukatora sassa!
mircea_popescu: now i wanna listen to it lmao
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
assbot: Sutakora, Sassa! - Golden Axe Music Extended - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjJSWx )
mircea_popescu: and i thought it must be some sort of famous tune or w/e ? turns out, no ?
asciilifeform: afaik only in goldenaxe.
mircea_popescu: the things one remembers.
asciilifeform: 'Adlib' ftw
mircea_popescu: Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realta fuggivo, da lei, da quelle emozioni, da i sogni, da i ricordi, da tutto. E pensavo che dovevo dimenticare. Ero certo che sarei riuscito a dimenticare. Ma oggi che sono vecchio, che ho consumato banalmente la vita, talchè ho conosciuto tante donne che m'hanno detto "ricordati di me" e io le ho scordate tutte, ancora oggi lei, l'unica che non ho mai dimenticato... Sutakora Sassa!
asciilifeform: goldenaxe2 ruled.
kakobrekla: yes, i made friends because of it.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 02:12:31; mircea_popescu: prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.
asciilifeform: was a thing, he put the monster power supply there
asciilifeform: around the 'horseshoe'
kakobrekla: btw re liquid cooled para capacitance, modern computer gear seem to work in oil immersion setups without any special design
asciilifeform: cray was a titan.
mircea_popescu: sorta like the heated water bed. all you wanna do is fuck all the blustery winter day.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: electrolytic caps swell.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i remember me saying that and alf being all alf all over it!
asciilifeform: they do tho
kakobrekla: i recall one such setup being operable for years
mircea_popescu: hard to argue with practice yo!
asciilifeform: and in which liquid
mircea_popescu: crazy gamers everywhere.
asciilifeform genuinely curious
mircea_popescu: i never gave that much of a shit, myself
asciilifeform: and 'operable' for gamer means typically slightly diff thing than for me
asciilifeform: (years of 24/7 with no bitrot)
kakobrekla: i recall it was office pc that worked years after installed and no i dont have the link written down anywhere
asciilifeform: what did he do with the disks?
kakobrekla: dont recall
asciilifeform: and how about the ports
asciilifeform: cables glued in?
kakobrekla: why would you glue them
asciilifeform: because sealed oil tank??
kakobrekla: ah i thought glued in sockets
asciilifeform: or, what, ick, open to air, spillable idiocy?
kakobrekla: dont change the argument this has nothing to do with capacitance !
asciilifeform: i wonder if he filled with siloxane
kakobrekla: anyway i see you want all the upside with no downside
asciilifeform: hell yes.
asciilifeform: thats what i ~do~.
kakobrekla: hence very little solutions.
asciilifeform: but when solved - solved.
asciilifeform: it's a thing...
kakobrekla: more if than when.
asciilifeform: unfortunately.
asciilifeform: ars longa .. (tm)
asciilifeform: for half-solutions, call up yer local halfsolutionmart! it will provide!
kakobrekla: sometimes 95% solution will be better than no solution at all
asciilifeform: call 95%mart!111 it liveth to serve!
kakobrekla: yes i found be-quiet there
kakobrekla curious if asciilifeform ever makes a compromise for the sake of his pet
nubbins`: now to have a witbier in bed. nite
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00052462 = 4.8265 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.0005248 = 6.6125 BTC [+]
punkman: /me found a dusty, 20 year old bottle of Canadian Club yesterday
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7340 @ 0.00052549 = 3.8571 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: does it still work?
punkman: I will find out now
punkman: hmm not bad. I should find a newer bottle to compare it with.
assbot: Soul MaKossa - Manu Dibango - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIAwkR )
kakobrekla actually has that album in his collection
punkman: on vinyl?
kakobrekla: a flac.
punkman: I have a small stash of 60-70s vinyl, but turntable has been out of order for a decade+
punkman: 128kbps is good enough for me anyway
kakobrekla: you know how it is, once you go black you can never go back
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430137 << getting out of bed every day is a fucking compromise for me.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2016 03:04:46; *: kakobrekla curious if asciilifeform ever makes a compromise for the sake of his pet
phf: mircea_popescu: i wonder what happened to him. << i spent some time outside
asciilifeform: phf: good habit.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform gotta take a leak at some point
kakobrekla: i dont prefer doing it horizontally
phf: ben_vulpes: i spent few hours in your city, long enough to collect loot from Powell's Books
asciilifeform: * mircea_popescu has quit (Disconnected by services) << wat?!
mircea_popescu: damned fleanode
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i just talked to assboy
mircea_popescu: apparently it doesn't know what !v is
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu connected to the ftmeade fleanode or what.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's what it says when i ask nickserv to ghost my name.
mircea_popescu: which i gotta do if i'm reconnecting before being officially disconnected.
mircea_popescu: phf hey, looks just like where i'm from.
mircea_popescu: what is this, cascadia ?
phf: yeah, same, it's like being home. birch, evergreen, moss
asciilifeform: (precious little of this here in the swamps)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00052669 = 1.8961 BTC [+] {4}
kakobrekla lives in jungle by b-a standards
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00052311 = 2.9556 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: https://cluj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/assets/pekus-statiunea-baisoara.jpg << the fashionable place for losing one's virginity at the time.
kakobrekla: my house is approx visible here http://i.imgur.com/2qJEaL5.jpg
asciilifeform fires up ac
asciilifeform: without which summer here would not be habitable.
mircea_popescu: still pine
asciilifeform: spring is ~1 week long in the swamp.
asciilifeform: after that - hot sticky mess
asciilifeform: green hell
asciilifeform: like venus prison planet in old sf stories.
phf: asciilifeform: was dreading coming back to dc, it didn't disappoint. it's already getting clammy
phf: meanwhile, in cascadian forest http://glyf.org/tmp/green-outside.jpg
mircea_popescu: so why aren't you two moving to seattle or w/e
phf: or http://glyf.org/tmp/bridge-outside.jpg the whole place is out of slavik fairytales
kakobrekla: its not 100% solution !!!1111
mircea_popescu: oh sorry.
asciilifeform: i can't speak for phf
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly phf looks just about right. i guess once i'm out on parole ima go live with ben_vulpes in his guest bedroom.
asciilifeform: but swamp is one of the two kolymas where they have asciilifeforms toil to mine uranium for the 5yearplan
mircea_popescu: what's the other one, the everglades ?
asciilifeform: (the other being the godforsaken 10,000usd broomcloset flat bay area)
assbot: The Kingston Trio - M.T.A. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1U60qT6 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7211 @ 0.00052309 = 3.772 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: famous!
asciilifeform: i learned it from pet.
assbot: Everglades - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1U60wdx )
mircea_popescu: " Where a man can hide and never be found and have no fear of the bayin' hounds. But he better keep movin' and don't stand still. If the 'skeeters don't get then the 'gaters will"
asciilifeform: sounds right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00052284 = 4.8886 BTC [-] {2}
phf: i don't actually have any reason to stay in dc long term, maybe another few months to a year
phf: but unlike ascii i don't have any aversion to shit jobs as long as they pay max and take up min time
phf: i think "full stack" "web" etc. jobs are primarily shit not because you have to hack javascript or manage imbeciles, but because they have notoriously shit pay-time ratios. 9-5-5 for 140k and 1 week vacation? better fucking shoot me
mircea_popescu: you know barrista makes 35k or so.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 140000 * .45 / 8 / 5 / 51
gribble: 30.8823529412
mircea_popescu: about half what a whore makes, if she's serious about it.
asciilifeform: i thought a good whore can make MAXINT !?
mircea_popescu: how did you think that ?
asciilifeform: the ads in volkischer beobachter ?
asciilifeform: few hundy / hr
mircea_popescu: it's mostly opportunity cost. she spends her time with you, she can't be at the blackjack table smooching.
asciilifeform: whatever it is, it beats my profession.
asciilifeform: no whore ever punched a motherfucking clock
asciilifeform: or sat in an office.
asciilifeform: or 'boss screen'-d.
BingoBoingo: I dunno, they might have to actually punch clock at the regulated Nevada brothels
asciilifeform has nfi
asciilifeform: i've never set foot there and dont expect to
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> no whore ever punched a motherfucking clock << you're kidding, right ?
mircea_popescu: 4 an hour, baby.
asciilifeform: waiwut?!
mircea_popescu: most whores alive today, as wel las historically, do punch clock, and also live in a fucking office.
mircea_popescu: it's a large dark damp room, with sheet separated beds.
asciilifeform: client punches clock!
asciilifeform: this is different!
asciilifeform: like lawyer.
mircea_popescu: i think youy maybe haven't seen so many whores at work.
asciilifeform: mebbe not
asciilifeform: i guess the sheet whores are similar to the wwwstack programmers
asciilifeform: many of'em but no nyoozpaper ad
mircea_popescu: take a vacation, go to say costa rica, check out how the girls live.
asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu article on same
asciilifeform: wish i had such a thing as vacation.
deedbot-: [Qntra] F-35 Software Requiring Hard Reboots While Airborne - http://qntra.net/2016/03/f-35-software-requiring-hard-reboots-while-airborne/
BingoBoingo suspects alf may have problem mod6 wrestled with last month, may actually despite protest require time away from keyboard and instead eating delicious beef in southern hemisphere.
asciilifeform: would go right now if could.
asciilifeform: and not come back, if could.
asciilifeform: this hell is not for people
asciilifeform: should be left to mice, fleas, bureaucrats.
BingoBoingo: Honestly I though the swampy aspects of here were bad, but your descriptions of the swamp make me thankful for my present climate
mircea_popescu: ;;google argentina weather
gribble: Buenos Aires , Argentina - The Weather Channel - Weather.com: <http://www.weather.com/weather/today/l/Buenos+Aires+Argentina+ARBA0009:1:AR>; Climate of Argentina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Argentina>; Weather in Argentina - Lonely Planet: <http://www.lonelyplanet.com/argentina/weather>
BingoBoingo: AC is not one yet, though I did spread a bunch of BTi this afternoon to get a head start on mosquito control due to the mild winter.
asciilifeform: i have ~24 yrs of stoked hatred for the fuckngswamp
mircea_popescu: wait, you lived there whole lyf ?!
BingoBoingo: get a reciprocating saw and take that hatred out on nature. It will make you feel better
asciilifeform: what nature.
asciilifeform: scarcely anything to saw here.
asciilifeform: shrubs, sickly things.
asciilifeform: soil is red clay.
BingoBoingo: That just means saw feels even more powerful
asciilifeform: i nearly destroyed the chainsaw last time
BingoBoingo: yellow/orange clay here grows giant plants just fine
asciilifeform: it did not like the shrubs.
BingoBoingo: See, this is not a chainsaw job, too much power... it gets confused and tears at self.
cazalla: arvo'
BingoBoingo: arvo' to you too
cazalla: looks more like a shrub BingoBoingo
cazalla: chainsaw wouldn't be sporting though so all good
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You just need cheapest 18 volt reciprocating saw made by TTi and branded with whatever battery system pisses you off least + 5 tpi blade. Instant stress relief.
asciilifeform: not much to saw, again
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, didn't have much time
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But the shrubs!?
asciilifeform: and mosquitoes eat you alive.
cazalla: how about a hand axe? got that wrist strength, was an ezmode job for the few trees around here i axed down
BingoBoingo: BTi werkz for mosquitoes. Not the adults, but generally can be guerilla applied sufficient radius to protect own yard.
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Neighbor's fence on one side. My shed on the other. No room to swing.
asciilifeform: i'd actually rather have moar treez
asciilifeform: than less
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00052491 = 6.7713 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: well chopping one down doesn't preclude you from planting a few more
BingoBoingo: Also real trees love hard clay soil
cazalla: that's what i did here.. pissed the non-fruit bearing trees here off, replace with fruit-bearing
asciilifeform: i know a fella who does this
asciilifeform: lives in westvrginia.
asciilifeform: b00lcrap are you alive?
BingoBoingo: aha, him!
asciilifeform: ;;later tell b00lcrap come back to us.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: old friend
asciilifeform: he has trouble getting a reliable net socket.
asciilifeform: tcp over old slave banjo.
asciilifeform: or the like.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, got much going on in the garden this spring of yours?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: l0l wats this, led lamps?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: So far jsut tidying up tree litter out front and clearing feral corner of the back which is pretty much done
kakobrekla: science and technology!
kakobrekla: unrelatedly, just ordered 9690sa-8l as per ascii, had to do it from the states because it appears to be a rare thing in europe with price factor of ~5
BingoBoingo: cazalla: What about yout garden this fall?
cazalla: got a second batch of cucumbers in, and put some broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower in last week, snow peas go in next month
cazalla: and enough pickled tomatoes from the summer to last until next spring
BingoBoingo: We had a very mild winter so no die back on the rosebushes and the spring bulb have had leaves up testing the weather since late december
cazalla: down under summer was cooler than usually, at least it felt that way, no 3-4 day heat waves anyway so garden did well
cazalla: re: trump image.. you know that's all they're talking about here in the oz media, trump this, trump that, you'd think he was running for PM of aus
cazalla: (which in a round about way, probably is ha)
kakobrekla: >According to the Transmission website version 2.90 was infected with malware.
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