Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-01-23 | 2016-01-25 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52730 @ 0.00056453 = 29.7677 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was inside function.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the gf-nordstorm graph is pretty cool, you made it ?
mircea_popescu: apparently not.
ben_vulpes: i most certainly did!
mircea_popescu: then why does it say blqabla.com on the bottom?
assbot: Money, Trust, and the Wild Wild Web (A socioeconomic history of SSL, or that green lock symbol in your browser) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsN7n0 )
BingoBoingo finally stitching together popular hegelian piece since slow news weekend
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: footnote just for you, baby
ben_vulpes: hrm that reorder's the piece's footnotes
ben_vulpes: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
ben_vulpes: i fucking hate my webthing.
mircea_popescu: that;s a good thing.
ben_vulpes: why? people's links will break if i go back and add intervening footnotes.
mircea_popescu: and references break if guy goes back and adds pages in the middle of his book wtf.
mircea_popescu: and if you write "shoez rulez" today and then change it to "shoez sux srsly" next week, people's idea of your idea of shoes also breaks.
ben_vulpes: so what, i ditch current shitty static site generator and tell everyone who linked to shit previously to get fucked and find the new linxz?
ben_vulpes: i thought la serenissima's webfacists hated linkrot
BingoBoingo: Kinda why eventual #b-a library where people put text from outside the wot for preservation from molestation would have some similarity to deeding.
ben_vulpes: i personally dgaf. it's my server.
ben_vulpes: move the files wherever i want
ben_vulpes: *cartman head wobble*
mircea_popescu: suppose you think about what you wanna say, say it, and then let it be ?
mircea_popescu: can't turn the whole web into a signal processor.
ben_vulpes: i do not see what relationship the directory structure has to the things i have said, other than they expose the retarded toolchain i used to get them on the public net in the first place.
ben_vulpes: all that aside, when i finally ditch this thing, i will preserve the shit that's already on disk.
ben_vulpes: hahaha
ben_vulpes: it's usually the captions or contextuality of mircea_popescu's pr0n that gets me lolling
ben_vulpes: heh i am still snickering about that one
ben_vulpes: hey does anyone have suggestions for a non-retarded display manager?
ben_vulpes: for once in my short life i would like to not piss on a fence.
ben_vulpes: something that looks hella nineties would be top notch
assbot: suckless.org dwm - dynamic window manager ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZVEazh )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00055871 = 3.9668 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: nah all i need is the display manager, i'm going to use emacs for window mgmt
ben_vulpes: ;;ud hackin
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hackin | hackin'. a different way to say freakin/fuckin. its an adjective. fred on youtube uses it a lot. Fred: Hey, it's Fred! And I'm really hackin' mad right now because Judy ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202400 @ 0.00055692 = 112.7206 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00056489 = 35.4186 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19715 @ 0.0005637 = 11.1133 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Drones… sono finiti! - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/24/drones-sono-finiti/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5886 @ 0.00056004 = 3.2964 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383497 << "excuse me sir, i have an ear infucktion. i cunt hear you."
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 01:51:14; adlai: fwiw friend who teaches classics at a usg 'prep school' attests to having had a student excused from any and all performance standards due to APD (which stands for 'auditory processing disorder')
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383534 << "and we DEMAND that you hire useless hobos"
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:10:26; ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that the workload given to employees be reflective of their abilities...should not be given a workload that they cannot handle."
pete_dushenski: http://imgur.com/a/yFUTu << in other humour, citi's willem buiter has a new nickname for us "cyber boys"
assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQeXd )
pete_dushenski: though buiter is right about the silliness of bitcoin tx being costless. such strawman.
assbot: One couple lived off food waste for 6 months - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQl54 )
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: is this a 'freegan' thing?
mircea_popescu: "cyber boys" as opposed to what, banking girls ?
assbot: Drones… sono finiti! | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ju1j4o )
mircea_popescu: lol derp, "this thing that happened shows that this thing i presume is correct because reasons so ergo!"
mircea_popescu: !rate willem buiter -1 lolz
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
pete_dushenski: huh. great minds or something
pete_dushenski: ^ ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: either that or i'm living a week in the future somehow
pete_dushenski: hi ben, it's the future calling, gentoo all ready to go, sir !
ben_vulpes: NOT YET LOL
ben_vulpes: i mean some bits of it work
ben_vulpes: but i think i need to recompile the kernel
ben_vulpes: again
ben_vulpes: still now
ben_vulpes: now again
ben_vulpes: again now
BingoBoingo: The Joys of Sobriety: Going back to read yourself from 2014 and being pleasantly surprised with something you completely dissolved the memory of having written in industrial solvent.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: at this rate imma completely give up and just run 10.6
ben_vulpes: put gentoo in a vm for building ri's
pete_dushenski: alf has a copy ready and waiting. nib.
ben_vulpes: miserable fucking workflow.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i think those shit-spreaders were less of a 'freegan' and more of a 'let's see what it's like to be derpizens of the great nation of afrika'. fwiw.
ben_vulpes: lol wut and now it simply refuses to boot!
ben_vulpes: after five reboots in a row it just gives up!
pete_dushenski: just send alf your mailing address already ?
ben_vulpes: "software never fails" but the flesh apparently is very fucking weak.
ben_vulpes: > marking TSC unstable due to TSC halts in idle
ben_vulpes: shoulda listened to trinque.
ben_vulpes: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383609 << in my own aforementioned article. thankfully, archive.is has a pretty healthy stock of tlp. (not that i found any other broken links there lately)
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:35:25; adlai: pete_dushenski: more helpful to say where you encountered the deadlink :)
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you can't not pee on ~all~ the fences.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62450 @ 0.00056568 = 35.3267 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes dd's the 10.6 installer onto the flash drive one last time
pete_dushenski: it's wild how much more organised 10.6 is than 10.8. the latter ~always~ bunged up dates. when trying to organise a folder by "date modified", the latest documents would almost invariably end up in their own speshul sub-heading waaay at the bottom of the list under "no date". but then once in a while, not. for whatever reason.
pete_dushenski: i don't think anything drove me more nutso when using 10.8 than the inability to find a file in a folder you ~just~ placed it in moments earlier.
ben_vulpes: and el cap is second system shitgnomery incarnate
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383805 << i saw 2+ gb just from a couple of failed trb build attempts. it was like 2.7 gigs iirc. "bitcoin is not for the poor (who can't afford hd space)" (tm) (r)
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:03; mircea_popescu: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << this doesn't actually work, i've seen gb+ debug.logs
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: that's a thoroughly frightening prospect.
ben_vulpes: no you know what i have one more fence to piss upon
ben_vulpes: UBUNTU
ben_vulpes: that is how desperate i am to get off of os x.
guruvan: ben_vulpes: just get you a boot2docker, and then run whatever the hell you want - use the OSX like a hypervisor :D
pete_dushenski: the old osen come with their own limitations, however, like not being able to render random websites, eg. http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/14/they-dont-print-paper-catalogues-anymore-everythings-on-their-website/ (oakley's - which i only ever managed to use on... ios8 ipad)
assbot: “They don’t print paper catalogues anymore, everything’s on their website.” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxosOd )
ben_vulpes: guruvan: i am not running my primary os in a container, thank you very much.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i tried 14 for a few days. couldn't believe how laggy it was. haven't tried 10 (or whatever the b-a approved one was)
ben_vulpes: ftr i /have done this/
ben_vulpes: edited code in emacs, booted container for reference implementation builds
ben_vulpes: shat elfs onto server for testing
ben_vulpes: openbsd at least installed, booted trivially, and ran emacs under x11.
ben_vulpes: but reference implementation? no, get fucked it said.
ben_vulpes: it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:58:32; asciilifeform: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/09/06/stack-frame-layout-on-x86-64 << better picture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00056116 = 14.5902 BTC [-] {4}
ben_vulpes: shit, i even reconsider the /past three years/ of toolchain investment on weekends like this.
ben_vulpes: pick a side i said.
phf: openbsd patch as written results in a working build on both linux and openbsd. it introduces necessary ifdefs to ensure cross platform support. the only change that it does to makefile is, at least according to my research, is necessary with some versions of gcc, rather then openbsd specific (has to do with static linking of pthread). without that change build ~can~ produce broken static bitcoind on both openbsd and linux. at the time
phf: when it was written and submitted it applied cleanly to the tree. to my knowledge it doesn't interfere with stator build. in fact the whole point of patch is to make minimally intrusive changes to source so that interested parties don't have to track down silly issues when attempting a build on their own. it's my understanding that the patch was simply dropped during v-ification, so of course now it doesn't in any way fits into
phf: pressing.
ben_vulpes: phf: i have a hunch that it was my boost compiles that were failing.
pete_dushenski: just noticed that crapple is pulling the same version naming strange as bitcoin 'core', ie. v. x.9 followed by x.10, x.11, x.12, etc. (is this the equiv. of web 2.12 ?)
ben_vulpes: still trying to get the hang of the m1a1, very much adrift in the cockpit of a warthog.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: it's been an alternative scheme for as long as i can remember
ben_vulpes: x.6 ~ 10.6
mircea_popescu: phf how can it be dropped i dont get this ?
mircea_popescu: in random good unix news : shuf -n 1 $file will pop out a random line from that file.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: maybe it's just the coincidence that's being picked up on my gaydar then.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112350 @ 0.00056689 = 63.6901 BTC [+] {5}
pete_dushenski: that being said, i've always thought that version numbers should "roll over" at a certain point. not like mac os8 went 43372 sub-versions before macos 9 showed up. eh. i guess it really doesn't matter.
pete_dushenski back to reading about x86_64
phf: mircea_popescu: well, openbsd and timestamp are written in old diff format, their migration was not done by foundation when majority of patches were moved to vdiff. i interpreted that move as the patches not being needed and an invitation to perform migration myself.
mircea_popescu: i think the migration was done by patch authors rly.
deedbot-: [Bingo Blog] The Theoretical Foundation of Social Engineering Practice - http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/
mircea_popescu: anyway, do i get the impression you got the impression your patches aren't welcome or something ?
phf: well, first v release was migrated by ascii, with all the patches signed by him, i think later mod6 signed his?
mircea_popescu: possibru
BingoBoingo: If asciilifeform reads and tests what he signs the openbsd patch would have been missed. Timestamp may have been overlooked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113350 @ 0.00055488 = 62.8956 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo can finally read ben_vulpes on SSL
phf: one of the features of the openbsd patch is that it should build cleanly on linux, i.e. naive build or a stator build. i did a naive build that work, while i was developing, but since i assume it was not included in stator i can't speak to that.
phf: basically the patch being dropped created bunch of work for me, that i don't have bandwidth to pursue. (i.e. produce a v version, test on stator)
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: "The correct answer is that developed and practiced by people who take personal cryptographic hygenie very seriously" << hygiene
phf: otherwise the work needs to be done by other foundation members, and it comes with commitment to support openbsd build
phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly
mircea_popescu: i guess that makes sense.
pete_dushenski: i'm out. cheers !
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40441 @ 0.00055814 = 22.5717 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112195 @ 0.00055491 = 62.2581 BTC [-] {3}
phf: mircea_popescu: ok, so i wouldn't say not welcome, but since neither patch was given a courtesy of a smooth transition, i assumed that neither are seen as particularly important. спасение утопающих дело рук самих утопающих (tm) (r)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00055474 = 27.2377 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: "Maybe we aren't seeing heaven because one of us is a J-O-O" -Eric Cartman
punkman: well that was a lot of log
BingoBoingo: Much log, lots of content
mircea_popescu: phf i think you're reading too much into it.
mircea_popescu: besides, nobody's drowning.
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this?
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 02:44:58; trinque: ShrinkDebugFile() << lol, the autism in this thing
punkman: I suspect that using the plog library (after some win32-snipping) would remove more lines than it adds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20689 @ 0.00055855 = 11.5558 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383855 << I haven't had any problems using custom datadirs
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:35:03; mircea_popescu: which is why nobody uses datadir, because wtf you do with munged 200kb logfiles.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this?
ben_vulpes: also lol what /we/ who are /you/?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00055874 = 19.0251 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Ah, Rubio. Now BitBet's sole favorite for the Republican nomination. https://bitbet.us/bet/1205/marco-rubio-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/
assbot: BitBet - Marco Rubio will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee :: 0.54 B (54%) on Yes, 0.47 B (46%) on No | closing in 2 months 2 weeks | weight: 39`117 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJwMN1 )
assbot: Catfishing is real, and it can be hurtful. : fatpeoplestories ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsdDDy )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00055874 = 27.3224 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy
assbot: Britney Spears Good at Math ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qsea8y )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53005 @ 0.0005552 = 29.4284 BTC [-] {3}
phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383561 << wtf? that is not at all the issue!
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:26:40; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383446 << wait, explain this to me ? << the idea is that our makefiles, or whatever build scripts will utilize V to build inside of the rotor (a linux thing) - the source must be compatable with that. phf's openbsd scripts are not compatible with this.
phf: the ~only~ "script" aspect of the patch is "-Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" which is a cross platform gcc argument that ensure that pthread is truly fully statically linked into bitcoind. the issue that some parts of it don't appear consistently with openbsd gcc ~and also on some of the linux gcc versions~. fucking says so in the original email
phf: everything else in there is either cross platform clarification or straight up an #ifdef. it's a tiny ass patch, if it doesn't build on rotor, linux, etc. it's a bug in a patch
ben_vulpes: i only had the opportunity to test it recently, failed to even build prerequsites and so cannot sign it. i also do not intend to build another openbsd system in the immediate future.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69297 @ 0.00055895 = 38.7336 BTC [+] {2}
phf: ben_vulpes: of course, that bsd patch doesn't stand in isolation. it was produced at a certain time, was since used by several people to build a version. but there's nothing to sign, because there's only pre-v patch
ben_vulpes: i do envy everyone the vast panoply of device families apparently covered.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24658 @ 0.00056659 = 13.971 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00056659 = 23.8534 BTC [+]
assbot: The Short History of GCC development ... ( http://bit.ly/20meIQb )
punkman: "Why are we doing this? It's become increasingly clear in the course of hacking events that the FSF's needs for gcc2 are at odds with the objectives of many in the community who have done lots of hacking and improvement over the years. GCC is part of the FSF's publicity for the GNU project, as well as being the GNU system's compiler, so stability is paramount for them. On the other hand,
punkman: Cygnus, the Linux folks, the pgcc folks, the Fortran folks and many others have done development work which has not yet gone into the GCC2 tree despite years of efforts to make it possible."
punkman: "As FSF GCC died a silent death from malnutrition, both were (formally) reunited as of version 2.95 in April 1999.  With a simple renaming trick, egcs became gcc now and formally the split was over"
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47049 @ 0.00056368 = 26.5206 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00056534 = 44.6053 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56101 @ 0.00056534 = 31.7161 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108631 @ 0.00055647 = 60.4499 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17820 @ 0.00055698 = 9.9254 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00055647 = 9.0148 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.00056607 = 39.0022 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50500 @ 0.00056629 = 28.5976 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00056518 = 37.3019 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78800 @ 0.00056519 = 44.537 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people.
adlai: educational holes; haven't read Анна Каренина, perhaps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120250 @ 0.00055647 = 66.9155 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whaddyamean 0
mircea_popescu: what do you see in there |?
asciilifeform: perhaps she had the face of a human, rather than ruminant, nfi
mircea_popescu: but the list of things he presents is enough to deduce they have nothing in common.
mircea_popescu: "we both say $word about heavily advertised meaningless franchise". hurr.
mircea_popescu: "she would never take a left on west 83rd at 6pm on a tuesday. i know this on the basis of her $word starwars."
mircea_popescu: predictive value of a half eaten linseed.
asciilifeform: ah i finally parsed the thing correctly, when he wrote 'talked that night' it was probably not in the flesh
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384135 << i have an openbsd box. but i haven't booted it in over a year, and can't bring myself to. because it is FUCKING LOATHESOME:
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 14:39:04; mircea_popescu: phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist.
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:34:08; asciilifeform: e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 17:42:55; ascii_field: and until it builds x11 emacs without dbus and related idiocy, openbsd is WORTHLESS to me.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you don't like it. what of it?
asciilifeform: so i won't maintain for it.
asciilifeform: i tried...
mircea_popescu: well yes but we're discussing him
asciilifeform: if he wants to maintain a parallel universe, and it doesn't in any serious way inconvenience the actual universe, i will say only kind things.
asciilifeform: thing is, at least the way i understood it, the whole ~point~ of openbsd was as a fortress against poetteringization. and it appears to be in ruins, based on above
asciilifeform: i can haz emacs without dbus ~here~
asciilifeform: even on the most heathen linux
asciilifeform: and recall the incident with theo and his 'friends'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, these must be decisions people take for themselves.
asciilifeform: in principle, i like the lightweight, pedigreed, and 'hackable on' bsd family, e.g., netbsd. but imho openbsd is something that probably needs to be helped die
asciilifeform: but this is just my own judgement.
asciilifeform: did anybody ever try to get theo to appear here ?
asciilifeform: i'd much like to hear what the man has to say for himself.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384102 << so REAL maths folks eschew line breaks!!11 who knew?!
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 10:08:30; ben_vulpes: http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383435 << maybe "god" is just anthropomorphic personification of "universe"
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 00:05:24; danielpbarron: >> me: the universe does not guarantee a solution to things that humans perceive as problems. << personification of 'universe' to replace God
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 07:46:51; ben_vulpes: it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i personally don't. there's a common disease of whores (and no, programmers aren't fundamentally anything else). it manifests like so : should a wolf find a delicious morsel, it will neglect it oft to the point of just letting it sit while it draws a perimeter around and inspects for whence it came for and MOAR. meanwhile, a mouse that found a morsel will grab it and run, never to return.
asciilifeform: originally i thought that it would have to be a gentoo vm, but turns out that one can actually build a genuine toolchain there ! and it runs...
mircea_popescu: i see it lots with online hos, you'd think that if you got easy money once, you'd never leave that place. but not so if you KNOW you're not worth anyone's time, deep down.
mircea_popescu: and so... i'm not particularly curious.
asciilifeform: i thought the stereotypical whoredom is to go, at the drop of a hat, to where it smells of moar money ?!
asciilifeform: and of programmer-whoring especially?
mircea_popescu: nope. that's baseless slander.
mircea_popescu: that is the queenly behaviour.
mircea_popescu: ie, "i say whore because she won't fuck me" vs "i say whore because whatevs"
asciilifeform: queenly ?
mircea_popescu: yeah. the requisite behaviour of the wife of the king.
asciilifeform: sorta like lioness ovulates as soon as the old cubs are recycled, aha
asciilifeform: this makes sense
mircea_popescu: hey, nobody said reality won't stink.
mircea_popescu: but generally, as an aspiring young lord, you don't have either the time or the resources to spend any time or resources with any women that would settle for anything but the best they can possibly get.
polarbeard: is this the beginning of shitty i18n?: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0102
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.h ... ( http://bit.ly/23lN5ZT )
mircea_popescu: which is why "well breed" old guard products don't usually carry much value with the treason that just prospered.
polarbeard: should we kill it? grep " _(" bitcoin/src/* | wc -l -> 58
mircea_popescu: polarbeard "I'd get it one piece at a time. And it wouldn't cost me a dime..."
polarbeard: seems reasonable
assbot: Killing Anwar: Targeting Jihadi Propagandists is Only Part of the Solution ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlHLA )
mircea_popescu: "Killing and Communicating to Victory
mircea_popescu: Killing Awlaki unfortunately did not prevent his propaganda from influencing the minds of people who killed innocent people after he was gone. "
assbot: Freedom Rider: Black Community Control of the Police and the Politicians | Black Agenda Report ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlU1r )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00055804 = 35.5471 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00055804 = 7.5056 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75600 @ 0.00055895 = 42.2566 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59358 @ 0.00055709 = 33.0677 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28083 @ 0.00055537 = 15.5965 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99550 @ 0.00056059 = 55.8067 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Bitcoin Hash Rate ... ( http://bit.ly/1nHHjRP )
punkman: 1 exahash
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29465 @ 0.00055537 = 16.364 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: ;;nethash
gribble: 930625625.639
punkman: gribble's nethash reads from this http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-3D.txt , in case anyone wants to run a script
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46440 @ 0.00055523 = 25.7849 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: !gettrust assbot sipa
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user sipa: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sipa | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sipa/
punkman: 3D means 3day estimate so it hasn't hit yet http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2060 @ 0.00055476 = 1.1428 BTC [-]
punkman: next stop, 1 zettahash :D
punkman: ;;interval
gribble: 536.6459627329193
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16178 @ 0.00055476 = 8.9749 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145308 @ 0.00055393 = 80.4905 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80014 @ 0.00056208 = 44.9743 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62145 @ 0.00056235 = 34.9472 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67700 @ 0.00055377 = 37.4902 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00056381 = 27.2884 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00056483 = 37.9283 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71065 @ 0.00055375 = 39.3522 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36246 @ 0.00055369 = 20.069 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml?
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 15:19:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one.
ben_vulpes: I personally don't understand the reasons beyond "it's the right thing to do with the reference implementation, dummy. also, fuck drepper."
mircea_popescu: do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00056477 = 1.9095 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: a glib answer'd be "because steve died", a more pragmatic one "because they don't compile the bitcoin reference implementation", but i don't think either of those are what you're thinking.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68374 @ 0.00056108 = 38.3633 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mkay, let's take something else. why does buying a russian bride online suck ?
kakobrekla: high fees
mircea_popescu: what's "high" even mean yet.
ben_vulpes: no returns, no way to know if she's even minimally acceptable to spend time with, no way to know if she can suck cock...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes but none of these are the core of the matter. suppose you buy one, and i give you another.
punkman: ben_vulpes: static because for one, hoping user has the right openssl/bdb/etc shared lib version results in forks
mircea_popescu: how would you know you got a DIFFERENT one ?
ben_vulpes: laptop or bride, they'd be...separate physical instantiations of 'bride' or 'nut-frier'?
ben_vulpes is having a 'not enough lsd' moment
mircea_popescu: but think about it. suppose i loan you one of my slavegirls, and you bring her back, except you bring me back a different woman.
mircea_popescu: how would my complaint sound ?
ben_vulpes: bitwise identity
mircea_popescu: "i know this isn't X, because Y".
mircea_popescu: whereas you have nfi how "a bride" should go. fuck you know.
mircea_popescu: for all you know, this is how it was supposed to be all along.
mircea_popescu: how are you going to have strong relationships with poorly defined entities ?
ben_vulpes: well no, but i believe that i understand your point.
ben_vulpes: usg has a plenty strong relationship with me, lol
mircea_popescu: marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know.
mircea_popescu: now do the same to alf.
ben_vulpes: 'aha'
mircea_popescu: is this MY windows or HIS windows ? (is that my emacs or his emacs ?)
mircea_popescu: and the problem now dawns : nobody gives a shit's ass what you do to your emacs
mircea_popescu: but bitcoin has to stay fixed! protocol! distributed!
mircea_popescu: "i dunno, man, that's just what my bitcoin does" "it shouoldn't do that" "how do you know ?" "because..."
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people. << It's like the redditor version of my foray into fiction
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84500 @ 0.00055622 = 47.0006 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: From: Gypsy <gypsy@thedoccorp.com> Subject: Programmer at $399/ Week ...orly?
jurov: Best Regards, Gypsy | Offshoring Coordinator
ben_vulpes: what a deal, jurov!
jurov: i'll gladly forward. cascadia surely needs some gypsies to improve diversity
BingoBoingo: They also naturally live in camps and so blend in with local bipedal fauna
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47450 @ 0.00055399 = 26.2868 BTC [-]
assbot: Wax loquacious ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvV7Fg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120150 @ 0.00055302 = 66.4454 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31909 @ 0.00055399 = 17.6773 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00055279 = 32.2829 BTC [-] {2}
polarbeard: somebody against displaying full hashes in the log instead of substrings?
mircea_popescu: !up yrashk
mircea_popescu: polarbeard on the contrary. please fix the substring idiocy.
mircea_popescu: whoever the fuck does stupid shit like "substring hashes" fundamentally misunderstands what cryptography is all about
mircea_popescu: much like someone delivering CPU shavings fundamentally misunderstands electronics.
polarbeard: is a symptom of basically being 'too clever'
polarbeard: 'but but it won't collide!'
punkman: this doesn't matter in log in most cases
punkman: but can be a hassle
punkman: it also means bigger logs overall
polarbeard: its okay, they actually implemented rotat... well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63917 @ 0.00055726 = 35.6184 BTC [+] {2}
polarbeard: saving bytes from hashes to spend them in "oops!" all around
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32284 @ 0.00056476 = 18.2327 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: myeah, and if you need to archive a lot of logs, can always convert to denser binary format
polarbeard: yeah, for now I'm just adding timestamps, classification prefixes and fixing messages, without adding extra logging points
BingoBoingo: Reddit does Australia https://archive.is/HtuJr
assbot: TIFU by feeding a goanna : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1QtgxrI )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80550 @ 0.00055626 = 44.8067 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:02:54; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384237 << what is the nonobvious thing re: static compilation ?
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:29:50; mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one.
asciilifeform: study the linux loader to see what 'dynamic' means. static is simply... not doing this
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/fredericjacobs/status/691357634704723969 >> OPERATION: KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384239 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384263 << this argument is every bit as applicable to everybody's, including mircea_popescu's, cpu...
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:32:48; mircea_popescu: do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ?
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:46:52; mircea_popescu: marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: censored
danielpbarron: >> Holy crap, opening from latest official (Al-Hayat) ISIS video is the decryption of a PGP message.
danielpbarron: is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00056222 = 46.3832 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: !up LquidNinjaAssets
danielpbarron: who're you?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> this doesn't matter in log in most cases << for one thing, alf was considering using the log for dumping and working with mempool.
LquidNinjaAssets: It doesn't really matter, I was just looking for some #b-a advice on who to use as a hosting service if I wanted to start a no frills blog...
LquidNinjaAssets: something either Pete, or Alf uses
danielpbarron: my advice is get in the WoT and ask again
LquidNinjaAssets: I am in the wot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform likbez is ipso definitio "list of obvious, except not obvious to you"
LquidNinjaAssets: just at work right now
danielpbarron: i was gonna ask BingoBoingo what he uses; i'm tryin to get a blog up as well
mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram << it would be. pgp BURNSSSS teh usterrorists.
danielpbarron: hosting i can do myself, but the wordpress i found kinda sucks
mircea_popescu: if you feel like making a qntra out of it all..
mircea_popescu: just a simple "isis finally moving to pgp, like b-a/alf/mp said they should. usg petrified about actual, strong cryptography - as opposed to the ecc and assorted shit they peddle - being deployed by those opposing its reign of terror"
danielpbarron: i'll look into it when i get back to real computer; i'm at a sushi bar atm
LquidNinjaAssets: yes plus all the security holes MP found on there...just something super basic that could be recommended by my wot would be great, thank you
punkman: LquidNinjaAssets: you can see who's hosting where via whois
mircea_popescu: fancy that coincidence, i just had a pile of sushi myself.
LquidNinjaAssets: thanks punkman
asciilifeform: l0l are them pigs flyin'
punkman: contravex looks like godaddy :/
asciilifeform: and censored just as soon.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Darwin isn't a complete piece of shit eh? So Apple > Winblows or is this like comparing two bowls of shit and asking which one is less nutty.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it is a complete piece of shit
BingoBoingo: I use dreamhost for thedrinkingrecord. It's cost controlled and don't get surprise bills when DDoS
asciilifeform: and the effort required to set it up for any kind of serious work vastly exceeds the effort used to set up a gentoo box
thestringpuller: interesting to see all the love for Gentoo
BingoBoingo: But really choosing a web host is a serious optimization problem.
asciilifeform: but you can work on it, yes. just as you could probably solder a keyboard to a nintendo and work on that.
BingoBoingo: What works for thedrinkingrecord would be unacceptably for Qntra
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: people did that, it was called a commodore64
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: because qntra has giant "DDOS me" sign on it's back as it walks to halls?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i can work on an apple box, with a good bit of sweat. i cannot work on a winblowz box.
asciilifeform: it is entirely impossible without installing something like vmware
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Because Qntra needs the potential to host wider varieties of content objectionable to shitgnomes
thestringpuller: Working on a winblowz box is the worst experience ever. I did so for 1.5 years writing JBoss web applets. Everyone thought "Oh you can run the dev environment in windows, well you're crazy. THIS IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS" to which I would revolt saying, "Your development process is insane which is why you spent 2.5 mil bringing in AGILE consultants to reduce your bottom line, which didn't fix any of the real problems."
thestringpuller: Eventually all the devs were given macs, (Oh boy upgrade from diahrea to solid feces).
asciilifeform: just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep
thestringpuller: The only people who got anything done around there was DevOps who had a strict (Run linux)
asciilifeform: i would much rather trade the computer for a pencil.
asciilifeform: the funny part is that i have written REAMS of code for winblowz.
asciilifeform: just not ON it.
asciilifeform: and didn't ~build~ it there either.
thestringpuller: you cross compiled it?
asciilifeform: (you can cross-compile trivially, and gcc gives 10x the compactness of vs crud. just treat the box as a kind of nintendo.)
polarbeard: that's... interracial
thestringpuller: aha. does this require posix compliance add-ons in the Windows box?
asciilifeform: naked winblowz box, straight from the crate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00056222 = 13.3527 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: no 'runtimes' or other dependency crud needed.
thestringpuller: aha so straight to win32
asciilifeform: old-fashioned gcc.
asciilifeform: wrote drivers, even
asciilifeform: (which microshit OFFICIALLY proclaims to only be possible using their turdchain)
asciilifeform: think of it this way, anything you could do in asm (and that's everything, period) you can do with gcc.
polarbeard: but did you sign® them?
asciilifeform: you don't need vs for this, either.
asciilifeform: but who the everliving fuck cares.
asciilifeform: it boggles my mind that anybody ever uses vs for anything at all.
thestringpuller: cuz IDE make lyfe ez
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107200 @ 0.00056323 = 60.3783 BTC [+] {3}
polarbeard: ide tells you what to do, calls you bitch if you don't
BingoBoingo: VS has marketing, looks good to managers
thestringpuller: that's like middle school shit. "Sally thinks you're a bitch"
polarbeard: clippy secretly plots your murder, using gentle 'suggestions'
asciilifeform: i will develop ~for~ nintendo, if the money is right. but no amount of money is pay enough for developing ON a nintendo.
BingoBoingo: !up LquidNinjaAssets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00056222 = 29.8539 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep << iirc they eventually got a grep in windows too
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'powershell' ?
asciilifeform: still not an actual shell.
polarbeard: git for windows installs bash, lol
mircea_popescu: i dun recall what it was
asciilifeform: polarbeard: you can even, e.g., cygwin, and build x11, and actual gcc, and bash, etc.
polarbeard: and tells you to shut up and accept the dick
asciilifeform: but at that point why not use an actual os
asciilifeform: jurov: somebody easily could
asciilifeform: i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free
asciilifeform: was wrong about this ?
jurov: yep, wrong
asciilifeform: (i am about as far from the project as could be imagined)
BingoBoingo wonders if name is supposed to be read polarbearD or polar beard
asciilifeform: !up gitzain
jurov: i know about cygwin, but never tried to apply
asciilifeform: jurov: you specifically would not want to build something ~for~ cygwin
mod6: polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben.
asciilifeform: this introduces dependency crud
jurov: rather, heard horror storied about mingw
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97000 @ 0.00056588 = 54.8904 BTC [+] {5}
asciilifeform: jurov: i worked with mingw for some years.
diana_coman: jurov> nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw? <- I tried that in some days of madness; it didn't end well
polarbeard: mod6: no problem, I'm open to suggestions
asciilifeform: !gettrust polarbeard
assbot: Trust relationship from user asciilifeform to user polarbeard: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=polarbeard | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/polarbeard/
mod6: I think you need to ack your previous identity and make ammends. Thats the first step.
asciilifeform: mod6: is this in the log ?
polarbeard: asciilifeform: I nuked my previous identity, for science
asciilifeform: oh for fucks sake
asciilifeform: let's have it
asciilifeform: !s from:ben_vulpes !rate
assbot: 102 results for 'from:ben_vulpes !rate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aben_vulpes+%21rate
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here
assbot: punindented WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeCWYY )
polarbeard: asciilifeform: punindented, nodejs, mawk user
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes what's the story re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374179 ?
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here
gribble: The operation succeeded.
polarbeard: and dotfile killah
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free << how are you going to make a windows binary "microshit-free" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see thread
mircea_popescu: <mod6> polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben. << the what now ?!
asciilifeform: also see thread
mircea_popescu: i have seen both threads, not much changed.
mod6: polarbeard is punindented, i very much appreciate his offer of help to work on the R.I. but this is a non-starter until ben and polarbeard/punindented reconcile their differences.
polarbeard: but I have nothing against him?
thestringpuller: is it safe to transplant the blockchain between hard drives once it's completed?
thestringpuller: or is it like the fdisk thing where you should --verify-all on restart even if blockchain is downloaded?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: so long as they have same endian
mod6: polarbeard: perhaps not. but wot & signing patches is based on trust. you must have a positive rating from members for patches to be accepted.
thestringpuller: this wouldn't change on same machine no? (like pulling blockchain off one drive then putting on another drive, but inside same machine)
mod6: so lets get this resolved and perhaps we can move forward.
polarbeard: ok, I'll earn that with time, I won't submit until I have positive rating
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Your best bet is likely starting a blog and putting things you might eventually submit there
BingoBoingo: Shows your growth over time or lack thereof
assbot: Oberá: un policía se suicidó luego de un accidente que le costó la vida a un motociclista - MisionesOnline ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDb6f )
polarbeard: I code, I don't write articles
mircea_popescu: "y se pegó un tiro con su pistola reglamentaria."
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Nothing wrong with blogging code
BingoBoingo: or blogging comments to code
assbot: polarbeard’s gists · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDdLk )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l!!
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: But you don't own that url in even the pretend sense of having a domain name
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: is the categories page you used built into the theme or did that have to be created?
polarbeard: do I need a domain name to contribute code?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: needed created
trinque: polarbeard: just go talk to ben_vulpes and work out whatever happened there.
polarbeard: BingoBoingo knows what happened, I sent him a log
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: no, but it makes the blog part work more smoothly given how github leiks da censorship
polarbeard: please share it BingoBoingo, if you still have it around
BingoBoingo: trinque: He filpped ben_vulpes paranoia breaker it would take some time for it to reset.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my point re: the mingw thread was that it is entirely possible to write a proggy, for whatever broken & braindamaged box, without inserting ANY bytes that i did not personally decide to insert.
asciilifeform: (i.e. without linking to vendor libs)
mircea_popescu: mod6 there's two (very general) problems here. one is that well, identification's always iffy. how do you go "x=y" when it comes to ids ? the other is that well, with or without wot trust, the guy can still write patches etc. not like anyone can prevent it. not to say that it shouldn't be resolved by any means.
asciilifeform: (it will make os api calls, yes, supposing that we want i/o at all. but this is not same thing)
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Did rotor eat your copy too?
polarbeard: I didn't save it
asciilifeform: anybody at all can write patches. just like anyone could write a speech for obamitler to read. now to have him actually read it - is a different matter
mircea_popescu: quite exactly.
mod6: mircea_popescu: he was talking to me in pm when he decided not to reconcile with ben and created a new ident. i can't sign stuff from a guy who i know that my co-chair has neg-rated.
mircea_popescu: i cansee that.
mircea_popescu: what was it anyway ?
mircea_popescu points out that all this private talk just makeswork down the line.
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: dpaste ate it.
mod6: the dispute? i dunno. his ident was 'punindented
asciilifeform: anything you say in 'private' about trb will generally end up having to be repeated at least once.
polarbeard: that's okay, I won't submit anything if you don't want / have the time to read
mod6: i asked him to resolve this, but this has gone too far now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then the differences evaluated and it's just not fucking worth it.
asciilifeform: this is why i almost never 'pm' at all these days
asciilifeform: launch codes go over pgp, everything else can be here.
polarbeard: mod6: I created a new ident because I nuked my keys, but I understand your position, you could have told me I'm not welcomed as well, instead of talking to me
mod6: ah, thats right. forgot you blew away your keys. but still, i gvae you ample time to resolve this with ben.
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: The solution is not simply new name. It is building a history and working towards the comprehensive exam.
mircea_popescu: now we're all stuck sitting around looking at a high strung dramatique discussion with a missing antecedent.
polarbeard: I don't know how to resolve the fact that he doesn't like people build stuff for nodejs
mircea_popescu: this is loathsome.
BingoBoingo: !s comprehensive exam
assbot: 4 results for 'comprehensive exam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=comprehensive+exam
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> this is loathsome. << This
asciilifeform: there is a more serious problem
asciilifeform: polarbeard tells us that he nuked his keys
asciilifeform: and was formerly mr. somebodyelse
asciilifeform: on what authority is this to be taken ?
polarbeard: formerly I was nobody, I'm still nobody
polarbeard: ben's was my first rate
mircea_popescu: well thatg's what i said. how do you know "x is y". you basicaLLY don't.
mircea_popescu: only way this works is if x says "i will be y".
mircea_popescu: y saying "i was x" is nonsense.
asciilifeform: maybe i was catherine the great, aha.
asciilifeform: or horse.
mircea_popescu: moreover, gpg is specificalloy intended to work as a PSEUDONYMOUS system. much like bitcoin addresses are.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58293 @ 0.00056458 = 32.9111 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with being a dozen different oens.
mircea_popescu: whether you like the idea or not - jack shit you can do aobut it.
mircea_popescu: moreover, the corruptive influence of bitcoin over enemies works in gpg and v space too.
mircea_popescu: new identity has to put in effort to establish trust. if it wants to abuse it later... it does have to burn it.
mircea_popescu: keep things so it's never worth doing that, you don't care if it's hitler's own id.
assbot: Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 'I didn't know that,' I said. 'No one knows everything,' he said. 'Did you know,' he said, 'that until almost this very moment nothing would have delighted me more than to prove that you were a spy, to see you shot?' 'No,' I said. 'And do you know why I don't care now if you were a spy or not?' he said. 'You could tell me now that you were a spy, and we would go on talking calmly, just as w
assbot: Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?' he said. 'No,' I said. 'Because you could never have served the enemy as well as you served us,' he said. 'I realized that almost all the ideas that I hold now, that make me unashamed of anything I may have felt or done as a Nazi, came not from Hitler, not from Goebbels, not from Himmler — but from you.' He took my hand.
mircea_popescu: and to bring back that very obscure thing on trilema about sybils etc :
mircea_popescu: the ONLY viable attack against the wot is getting people to act in systematic manners.
mircea_popescu: it is the direct equivalent of entropy-diddling for keysystems.
mircea_popescu: not only "there's nothing common about common sense" - but there's a very good reason for this. common sense is decentralized system poison.
asciilifeform: when i explain this to folks, i like to use the example of liquid nitrogen sausage
asciilifeform: hit ordinary sausage with a hammer, nothing, it gets a little flatter
asciilifeform: now freeze it solid, do the same...
mircea_popescu: yeah. vitrification kills.
asciilifeform: the ~structure~ kills.
mircea_popescu: destructure all teh things!
mircea_popescu: hey - this actuyally works. fundamentally, we're destructuralists.
mircea_popescu: comes after post-poststructuralism.
asciilifeform: now, a very hot sausage melts into goo, burns. an entirely destructured forum - timecubes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81700 @ 0.00056222 = 45.9334 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "entirely destructured".
asciilifeform: but it is possible to ionize the sausage.
asciilifeform: and generally undesirable.
mircea_popescu: no but this is important. the measure is not 0-> but (undefined) ->
mircea_popescu: very different sort of algebra.
asciilifeform: we actually don't have an algebra for entropy measures, other than shannon's
mircea_popescu: more generally, there's no algebra with a 1 but not a 0 in this sense afaik.
asciilifeform: riddle time:
asciilifeform: char *p = sc->strbuff;
asciilifeform: while ((p - sc->strbuff < sizeof(sc->strbuff)) &&
asciilifeform: !is_one_of(delim, (*p++ = inchar(sc))));
asciilifeform: from where ?
asciilifeform: tinyscheme
asciilifeform: 'who does this?!'
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: openssh!
jurov: linus
mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that this is a very specific sort of ideal.
mircea_popescu: like the bell bottoms, a fashion of the 70s
asciilifeform: how's that
mircea_popescu: i dunno how to explain it otherwise.
asciilifeform: which would be the 'ideal'
asciilifeform: wanton pointer arithmetic ?
asciilifeform: to save five lines but add an hour to the time of anybody trying to actually grasp the meaning ?
jurov: "idiomatic C"
mircea_popescu: that, yes.
mircea_popescu: sorta like crossword puzzles, same thing. a sort of cleverness.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00056459 = 78.9015 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up srijan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125750 @ 0.00056222 = 70.6992 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Jul/13 but interestingly the classical tinyscheme does not even have the original 0day
assbot: Full Disclosure: Re: ScriptFu Server Buffer Overflow in GIMP <= 2.6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WI6jEr )
asciilifeform: it was introduced in the... guess...
asciilifeform: utf8-ificated one.
asciilifeform: where else
asciilifeform: though the cited bit is still disgusting
asciilifeform: (it is from ver. 1.41)
asciilifeform: circa, iirc, 1999.
asciilifeform: (cited earlier in this thread, that is)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00056432 = 29.4857 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384565 << i offer that such folks be given a chance to stop, asked nicely. after this, to be hit with a heavy blunt object. and then hit again, and again, until they are no longer a danger to others.
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 23:06:37; jurov: "idiomatic C"
asciilifeform: 'clever' aha.
jurov: merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114650 @ 0.00056034 = 64.243 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: !up kefkius
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47215 @ 0.00056459 = 26.6571 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: snowden twatter account says the isis pgp is fake
asciilifeform: where is the kennedy assassination dossier it promised.
asciilifeform: (speaking of folks with no pubkey!)
ben_vulpes: so i've only negrated this punindented identity
ben_vulpes: and given that the character's lost or whatevered those keys, i don't see any reason for a) that to change or b) influence how the wot regards polarbeard
ben_vulpes: and as specifically regards polarbeard, i am happy to review patches
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let's say tomorrow some new fella shows up, new key, and admits that he is ninjashogun who lost his key...
asciilifeform: also makes no difference ?
asciilifeform: 'admission against interest' ?
ben_vulpes: but register formal irritation re your inability or refusal to answer to inquiries such as http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384093
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:19; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool
asciilifeform: (i think in usa it is called 'declaration against interest' but ianal)
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:25; ben_vulpes: also lol what /we/ who are /you/?
asciilifeform: useful concept
mircea_popescu: <jurov> merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries" << jurov has it.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> also makes no difference ? <<< quite.
mircea_popescu: what difference would it make ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0005592 = 5.2006 BTC [-] {3}
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: sorry, I missed that one, I was talking about a tool like logrotate
polarbeard: which I think comes by default in all linux distros, idk about unixes though
danielpbarron: https://imgur.com/a/meH0a << here's my screenshots, completely raw and unedited
assbot: isis pgp - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1WIafoM )
polarbeard: all I can say is that log rotation is daily business on most decent systems, but if anybody has a rational answer against it I would not remove shitty-ghost-rotation from trb
ben_vulpes: yes, i don't quite care about 'statements against interest'
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: that key id appears to be quite illegible
danielpbarron: yeah i can't figure it out either
ben_vulpes: someone can show up tomorrow and claim to be tiberius, tat, smickles, and until they sign with keys that prove it they're either joking or some other thing i don't understand
punkman: ben_vulpes: would ya read ninjashogun's patches?
danielpbarron: "snowden" says same
ben_vulpes: punkman: for lolz most definitely
ben_vulpes: and who knows what else of interest might be in 'em
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and whose pgptron prints 'Decryption....'
asciilifeform: and wtf
ben_vulpes: what harm'd there be in the reading i ask
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and why would message text be in english
asciilifeform: and, and.
ben_vulpes: so polarbeard burned his previous identity by getting uppity with me. what of it.
asciilifeform: and i won't even comment on the nonsensical contents.
ben_vulpes: it's not submitting patches any more, so i don't see the point of the discussion.
danielpbarron: yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: potentially. can mention all of these points.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron possibly not.
asciilifeform: 'alleged martian corpse found. but appears to be that of a dog with pig ears glued on'
ben_vulpes: mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how to operate your wot is between you and odin
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, i think you nailed the matter, can be laid to rest.
asciilifeform: i certainly see the rationale here
ben_vulpes: provisions are in place for noobs to fuck up and recover.
ben_vulpes: you'll note i'm not handing out 1's just for showing up any more.
ben_vulpes: *and*
mircea_popescu: i'm still a slut. while that lasts.
jurov: ;;later tell mike_c just an idea - if the rating is public, you can link the logs
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
mircea_popescu: i think it's really best practice to rate in chan.
asciilifeform: anybody know him in the meat? is the fella on a polar voyage or what
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc shitty job + new kid.
ben_vulpes: (and once again polarbeard /who are you/?)
asciilifeform tries to picture harsher job than his own, it's gotta involve petro drilling platforms with no connectivity or sumthin'
jurov: breeding pigs in space
asciilifeform: i would also like to know ~who is~ polarbeard
asciilifeform: кто ты по жизни, polarbeard ?
ben_vulpes: (while it may appear to /you/ that the mega participants in this cult are disembodied names, /we/ all know each other -- names, geographic locations, general type of employ, but /you/ do not have this [or i'll point out] any pedigree here)
jurov: eh calm down
jurov: you think that deaf idiot at the conference was really me?
ben_vulpes: how could i know, jurov! i never saw a keyid from you.
jurov: :D
ben_vulpes: heh that is an interesting hole in the keysigning party i guess
ben_vulpes: what if the person showing up is not actually the keyholder
asciilifeform: first time i was to see mircea_popescu, i actually had no idea how he will pick me out of the crowd at the airport. but he did.
ben_vulpes: same way everyone else singles you out of the crowd lol
asciilifeform: everyone, l0l
ben_vulpes: i'd seen the photos from c2, 'twas how i knew you and mike_c
mod6: heh, there was such a crowd at the exit of the security area, me and Mr. P. walked right by eachother I think.
mircea_popescu: yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport.
ben_vulpes: planez!
asciilifeform: dirigiblez!
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: hey can you confirm for the log that you understand what's going on with your various idents?
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow? << this is my 0.00000002: If you don't trust a man, no matter what his keyid is today, how can i ignore that and trust a new ident? The correct thing to do as a man, admit your mistake, and or ask for forgiveness and move on. Simple as that. We're all adults here.
polarbeard: yes, I understand, it wasn't my intention to change nick, I nuked my keys
polarbeard: I *loved* that nick
mircea_popescu: mod6 well basically, cause the concept of "a man" is pretty much the key.
mod6: And I understand that part too Mr. P. Typically, this is what seperates us from 'dog'.
mircea_popescu: now a dog you can't trust!
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: coulda kept the nick, but registered a new key and we'd be in the same spot.
polarbeard: and definitely not ready to tell more about my true and only self
ben_vulpes: freenode nicks are not crypto.
polarbeard: maybe one day, I don't kiss in the first date
mod6: For posterity: Do not do this. If you get a neg rating and you care about your wot ident, do be an adult and do as I said. Lot less problems and drama this way.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: I asked somebody if assbot can be forced to forget the nick, it can't
polarbeard: or that somebody told me
mod6: To me, this all felt like subversion. I didn
ben_vulpes: at orbital heights no less
mod6: 't like that.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and no smaller than mexico
mod6: Being honest and forthcoming about matters will always go much father with me than anything else. ftr.
assbot: This Might Hurt, but I'm Hungry ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4pauE )
jurov: kek, airship alternative to trans-siberian train.. now that'd be some achievement for hipsters
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much related to earlier thread !
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 14:40:14; mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: indeed!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport. << haha, it was a big crowd. You picked me out pretty quick.
mod6: Also: From now on, if you are not in my WoT, and you are a n00b here, any pm's will be ignored, and you will feed my ignore list.
ben_vulpes: i still love you vexual baby
ben_vulpes: very interesting problems that crop up in the curation of the wot.
mats: he doesn't pm me anymore, probably because i'm not as fun as ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: our timezones are so far off he just leaves me messages
ben_vulpes: unless the kid's up at 4 or whatever, i rarely actually interact with him.
ben_vulpes: makes me sound like a great parent
asciilifeform: in other news, the 'shiva' thing is nearing 6,000 ln.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: loc?
ben_vulpes grimaces
ben_vulpes: approaching usable?
asciilifeform: for connoisseurs only.
ben_vulpes looking forward to it
trinque: odd that it's trivial to figure out where I moved the deedbot- node, yet... works now.
trinque: whereas on AWS, blackholed to death
asciilifeform: trinque: all of my nodes ban aws
asciilifeform: as for prb, it doesn't like talking to trb (esp. with the malleus patch)
trinque: yep, but this was just connecting to whomever he wanted
mod6: Ok moving on.
mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
mod6: Trying to decide if I should post 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' to the ML.
ben_vulpes: mod6: appears to be a useful tool
mod6: So the difference in 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is that the block of code in Sign() is spaced with tabs. And to Mr. P.'s point it should probably be all in a file or nothing. Otherwise its mis-matched. Some with spaces, some with tabs.
mod6: I'm prefectly happy to reconstruct the patch with spaces to stay in alignment with the current (albiet unwated) spacing scheme.
mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mod6: Or, we can halt everything else, and create a new genesis and re-align, re-vpatch and re-sign everything.
polarbeard: mod6: honest question, why using two flags if they can't be used at the same time?
polarbeard: can't it be like a three state flag? 0 -> no enforce, 1 -> enforce low, 2 -> enforce high
polarbeard: wink wink, ternary computers
asciilifeform: polarbeard: i originally suggested this
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:36:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'.
polarbeard: that's still too flags, I searched before asking :)
asciilifeform: polarbeard: you're still using 2 bits.
polarbeard: that's right, I only mean to simplify usage (if that matters to anybody)
ben_vulpes: i prefer my c++ as antagonistic as possible
polarbeard: also removes one conditional, as ascii noted days ago
mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
mod6: I believe we need two flags.
mod6: If we simply get rid of 'fHighS' and 'fLowS' and replace with say 'fForceS', then how can we differentiate between entering into the high or low if block?
polarbeard: not using a boolean
polarbeard: or using two booleans, ascii's way
mod6: am i not using two booleans, polarbeard?
polarbeard: but yours are contradictory
polarbeard: therefore the need for the conditional
mod6: how would one set this singular boolean?
mod6: remember, i want a default state to *not* require a flag at all.
polarbeard: you can't, using a single boolean, do you mean an int?
mod6: right, i'd prefer not to use an int.
ben_vulpes: mod6: why not?
mod6: because it causes confusion to have -forceS=0 (low) and -forceS=1
polarbeard: you can use signeds, and then -1 0 1
mod6: from a user standpoint, i feel like its more conusing anyway.
polarbeard: 0 is the default, you may give -forceS=0 though, but that has no effect
mod6: polarbeard: keep in mind that i considered all of this over a week ago -- and decided against it. so yeah, i have put a lot of thought into this.
mod6: added complexity will result in bugs.
asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch.
ben_vulpes: i have a hard time giving a shit about the ergonomics when it's covered in finger-snipping blades already.
ben_vulpes: deck chairs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00055728 = 37.4492 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: oh come now asciilifeform like we don't waste time on vastly more trivial shit all the time
mod6: ^
mod6: and asciilifeform, keep in mind that this is a *must* fix. i think that is vastly important that we discuss this in channel.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00055728 = 6.1858 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ideally such a thread would result in a philosophical statement that'd guide future flags.
asciilifeform: mod6: ok. the rationale for my suggested thing was that no-flag ought to revert to 100% classical behaviour
mod6: agreed.
asciilifeform: as in exactly same code.
asciilifeform: high s variant is exquisitely useful for when we get a pool.
mod6: which is why i added that part.
asciilifeform: low s is useful so mircea_popescu can get his tx out without waiting a week.
asciilifeform: what remains ?
mod6: i think there seems to be questions around why i have two booleans.
mod6: i believe my implementation to be correct.
asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182722 @ 0.00055685 = 101.7487 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: what are you driving at here?
asciilifeform: mod6: i've no idea
asciilifeform: but i do not know the difference
asciilifeform: and would like to
asciilifeform: reading the proposed patch
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM78MD )
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_aa6f4bce46de947050b5cc529b310392c.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM77YU )
ben_vulpes: which is not the blessed openssl, but...
ben_vulpes: appears to be a wrapper around do_sign to some extent or another
ben_vulpes: gah this return value shit is hilarious
ben_vulpes: mod6: what's the rationale behind including the commented out printfs?
mod6: so the deal there is that was just some debugging info -- that may be useful to someone at some point.
mod6: there was a discussion around this, and decided to leave them in as a result. will dig up...
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:20:05; mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them?
mod6: anyway, asciilifeform yeah, i just grabbed that entire bit of code from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.3/src/key.cpp#L202-L227
assbot: bitcoin/key.cpp at v0.9.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PxUUSi )
mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
mod6: i suppose if we continue to use ECDSA_sign, we can continue to use: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize);
ben_vulpes: that'd be closest to the original code
ben_vulpes: and imho preferrable for that reason.
mod6: true
mod6: not sure what to do abut this tho:
mod6: unsigned char pchSig[10000];
ben_vulpes: perhaps fixing magic numbers is out of scope for a patch to force s-values?
mircea_popescu goes to read teh log
ben_vulpes: mod6: are you referring to fixing the magic numbers?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384722 << well, the proposal was for you to release current, 99996 or what it comes to, after which take a step back and do a clean of the spaces, make it 99995
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:04:29; mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
mircea_popescu: so you get a week off or something, during which people just run teh script and sign the results.
mircea_popescu: even a mod6 needs a week off now and again.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:10:06; mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384741 << stop paying attention to these dudes, optimizing the wrong shed.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:23:27; mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
mircea_popescu: !up aknix
aknix: Thanks!
mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16255 @ 0.00056495 = 9.1833 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: Ok sounds good mircea_popescu. I'll stop my current work on the high/low patch. I'll spend this week getting the changes [.wot in the pwd, and mechanical post-patch hash checking] in V [v99996] released. Then I'll immediately begin work on a re-alignment of all the patches we currently are distributing.
mod6: ok
mircea_popescu: what's your current work on teh patch ?
aknix: was actually just seeing if the channel was public again. Used to stop by now and then.
mod6: Nothing more than "send to the list", if its current form 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is acceptable.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda what i had in mind too.
mod6: Ok. I can get that done tonight yet.
mircea_popescu: i guess i unwittingly confused you, sorry about that. the S-patch was not actually intended to mark a new release did it ?
mod6: Oh no.
mod6: But it probably would have been the last thing to go into the tree before a release patch.
mod6: (a vpatch to tie them all together)
mircea_popescu: oh ok, my bad. so what i was thinking here is : a) finish the patch ; b) do all the other stuff you were going to do in your own time ; c) when ready make a new version ; d) take a week off, during which everyone [who cares to] can write and run a script to / /
mircea_popescu: after which back to normal. that sound sane ?
mod6: Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, want to get all of this done in a sane order and timely fashion.
mircea_popescu: so we'll have the 99996 > 99995 be "all tabulation, machine checkable"
mircea_popescu: and while it'd be tempting to overload it with stuff like moving the {, i would think it's better not to. make it simple and sweet to check.
mircea_popescu: stuff like { much easier to fix as patches/code is reviewed, by and by.
mod6: agreed. let's try to keep it just down to the tabs for now.
mod6: im sure i might need some more guidence when I get to working on that part, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mircea_popescu: and yes ben_vulpes is writing a style guide from what i understand
mod6: yeah, and this should make it all easier going forward to create the vpatch. overall, a good move sooner rather than later imho.
mod6: heheheh
ben_vulpes: wutnostahp
mircea_popescu: you said.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 04:10:33; ben_vulpes: WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT
mircea_popescu: it's my party, i can be a straight man if i want to
mircea_popescu: straight if i want to...
mircea_popescu: you would straight too-ooo-hoooh!
mod6: haha
mod6: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1B02DJ7.txt )
ben_vulpes checks todo list
ben_vulpes: entire code base is almost guaranteed to be in conflict with any style guide unfortunately.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:34:57; mod6: i believe my implementation to be correct.
polarbeard: 'corel devs did that on purpos to split the comuniteh!'
thestringpuller: so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: thoughts on ecdsa calls?
ben_vulpes: "father's pistols"?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384779 <<< i don't think you're ready for this one son.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:36:11; asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
mircea_popescu: ECDSA_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL ; ECDSA_do_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_do_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL. ECDSA_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgstlen bytes hash value dgst using the private EC key eckey and the optional pre-computed values kinv and rp. The DER encoded signatures is stored in sig and it's length is returned in sig_len. (sig
mircea_popescu: must point to ECDSA_size bytes of memory, the parameter type ~is ignored~). Meanwhile ECDSA_do_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgst_len bytes hash value dgst using the private key eckey and the optional precomputed values kinv and rp. The signature is returned in a newly allocated ECDSA_SIG structure (or NULL on error).
mircea_popescu: geddit ?
mircea_popescu: funny ben_vulpes, i was juist on that.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller verification of any functional kind is the sworn enemy of anyone with phds. thinkaboutit.
ben_vulpes: i'm stalking your log progress
mircea_popescu: fancy that, someone actually thought this is how you design a function stack.
ben_vulpes: i will point out that changing to the wrapper implementation implies audits to be done of the implementation delta.
mircea_popescu: the difference between the two, incidentally, is not trivial.
ben_vulpes: still 'fine'?
mircea_popescu: !s fine from:mircea
assbot: 822 results for 'fine from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fine+from%3Amircea
mircea_popescu: which one ?
ben_vulpes: most recent
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes we were discussing flags.
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..? << If you submit something with all of the point brought up it channel, its chance of publication is a weighted coinflip. Depends what you can make of it.
ben_vulpes: HA DERP
ben_vulpes: my bad.
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, ecs__sign_8c_source.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwg5HM )
ben_vulpes: right but if we stick to the old impl the audit is no longer required.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384844 << i'd like to know what mircea_popescu intends to do about ~future~ style-nonconformant patches.
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 02:22:44; mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mircea_popescu: the do version ultimately returns return ecdsa->meth->ecdsa_do_sign(dgst, dlen, kinv, rp, eckey); while the no-do version just calls the do version.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not sign them.
asciilifeform: gonna reject because my emacs emits a mixture of tabs'n'spaces ?
mircea_popescu: it does ?!
asciilifeform: i have it align columns when possible
asciilifeform: so now i gotta write an elisp for trb
asciilifeform: whereas before i did not
mircea_popescu: what non-tabulated collumns do you use ?!
ben_vulpes: i am still anti-tab, delimiter token hoojaberry aside
asciilifeform: indentation to the ( in an if ( ... etc
mircea_popescu: you indent to the ( not to the if ?!
asciilifeform: the 1st line of the inner block - yes
asciilifeform: like k&r did.
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: look who removed the magicnum https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9ef7fa34
assbot: Code cleanup: use ECDSA_size() instead of fixed 10,000 byte sig buffe… · bitcoin/bitcoin@9ef7fa3 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwgv0X )
asciilifeform: generally i see 'style guide' as a thing between the writer and his gods
ben_vulpes: indentation is poetry in any lisp
mircea_popescu: polarbeard you're not familiar with history. 2011 gavin is ok gavin.
assbot: And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx )
asciilifeform: to proclaim one in a project which did not previously have one, creates a megatonne of work for a great many people, to no very obvious benefit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes.
asciilifeform: the people whose crap i cannot stand reading, are the ones WITHOUT A CONSISTENT style.
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 gets no week off!
asciilifeform: lack of any style at all is generally symptomatic of serious cranial cockroaches
ben_vulpes: only reasonable style guide for this codebase is "make it look like the lines immediately above and below"
mircea_popescu: hey, if the change is not obviously a good thing it's probably a bad idea. it pisses me the fuck off, but whatevs, i'll sed or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232600 @ 0.0005613 = 130.5584 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: sed, sed.
asciilifeform: i'm not even opposed to the thing getting retabulated on releases.
mircea_popescu: i can't code worth a crap anyway.
asciilifeform: but rejecting patches because they have the wrong terminal bells is lunacy
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: lol, vi... I mean notepad.exe has a plugin for that
ben_vulpes: what that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps rejecting workers because they forgot to wipe their ass this morning also ?
asciilifeform: polarbeard: didja write a patch and i missed it reading the log ?
polarbeard: asciilifeform: gavin did
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:58:21; mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: for looking to the lines above and below and use that as the defaults
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a raft of cosmetic/credible fixes between .5 and .6.
asciilifeform: well, one allocates, the other drops in place
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one calls the other anyway.
asciilifeform: aha, was reading ben_vulpes's links earlier saw this
mircea_popescu: you mean my links ?
asciilifeform: and them
mircea_popescu: his are badly tabulated, don't count.
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: huh i had no idea editors needed plugins to do that
ben_vulpes: the abominable variable naming alignment, yes
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit? << -reindex and -verifyall are two different things.
asciilifeform: incidentally -verifyall was not in the classical bitcoin !
asciilifeform: i added it !
mircea_popescu: iirc also .6 branch
assbot: Search Results · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwhEpf )
mircea_popescu: was a flurry of "build confidence & establish trust" activity cca 2011 / early 2012.
asciilifeform: did they call it something else ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, what was it
mircea_popescu: -checkblocks=<n> How many blocks to check at startup (default: 288, 0 = all)
asciilifeform: how was this arrived at, gotta ask
asciilifeform: ouija board/
mircea_popescu: heh. this is novel,
mircea_popescu: it's a rewriting of an older thing
mircea_popescu: back when they added "check level" too, maybe 0.9 ?
assbot: Add -checklevel and improve -checkblocks by sipa · Pull Request #972 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwisuq )
mircea_popescu: later on those 6 levels became just 4.
mircea_popescu: then later went from $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 2500 to $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 288
mircea_popescu: prolly to celebrate someone's girlfriend's success in dieting.
mircea_popescu: ("Note that even level 6 does not do signature/script checking." is prolly the best part in all of that junk.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00056208 = 38.5306 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: "what happens if a miner includes a bogus tx you say ? oh, the other miners would never extend that chain!" "wait, didn't those same other miners extend a chain that failed the rulechange they supposedly voted for ?" "sfyl".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.0005563 = 27.6203 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15367 @ 0.0005629 = 8.6501 BTC [+] {2}
mod6 reads logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198458 @ 0.00056029 = 111.194 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes. <+mircea_popescu> poor mod6 gets no week off! << ok so no consensus on the space/tabs issue at this time.
mod6: hmm. so then, I believe if i remove the tabs from my S-patch and leave the spaces ~in~, then it'll look more like Mr. P.'s patch he put together.
mod6: i can work on that tonight.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 397.45, vol: 5829.09891885 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 396.941, vol: 9116.22499 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 396.66, vol: 27096.81758218 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 387.0, vol: 11.6693 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 402.147406, vol: 62621.59270000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 397.03, vol: 577.58243073 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 394.674500011, vol: 54.61105441 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 399.991092065
ben_vulpes: ty mod6!
mod6: no problem at all.
mod6: we'll get there, just gotta keep driving towards our goals.
mod6: one line at a time.
mod6: here's what it looks like with only spaces in there (much more similar to Mr. P.'s (second)): http://dpaste.com/03MMVP8.txt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.0005631 = 13.2047 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00056247 = 15.1304 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: !t s.mpoe
assbot: These beans is shit.
thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0005527 / 0.00055992 / 0.00056692 (5975415 shares, 3,345.81 BTC), 7D: 0.00050896 / 0.00055577 / 0.00060199 (23555869 shares, 13,091.73 BTC), 30D: 0.00047125 / 0.00052438 / 0.00060199 (60407942 shares, 31,677.18 BTC)
BingoBoingo: !t s.bbet
assbot: Your actions are useless.
BingoBoingo: !t m s.bbet
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.000121 / 0.000121 / 0.000121 (270 shares, 0.03 BTC), 7D: 0.000121 / 0.00012637 / 0.00013 (670 shares, 0.08 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00011988 / 0.00013 (3600 shares, 0.43 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69058 @ 0.00055631 = 38.4177 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00056309 = 7.1231 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Corn Belt Pain Continues As Supply Trickles Into Markets - http://qntra.net/2016/01/corn-belt-pain-continues-as-supply-trickles-into-markets/
BingoBoingo once he completes the re-reading list would like to publish a book, or at least a lecture series title "The Will To Hodl"
BingoBoingo also starting to get that uncomfortable feeling of "Alf was right" https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=145369611511762&w=2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67149 @ 0.00056502 = 37.9405 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: "more or less right. Release builds for VAX usually don't end much
BingoBoingo: early before the release. There were already times, where I had to
BingoBoingo: stop them, in order to ship. Those two to three months time, it's a lot
BingoBoingo: of babysitting. When I'm lucky, DPB just dies, and I get mail and
BingoBoingo: restart, if I'm unlucky, it just gets stuck, and I may not recognize it
BingoBoingo: for a (few) day(s)."
BingoBoingo: ^ i.e. the testing on exotic hardware appears to be fading
mod6: alright, the DER patch has been sent to the ML:
assbot: [BTC-dev] Enforcement of 'S' value in DER signatures ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZMq0uH )
mod6: And V mirror has been updated, as well as the graph (http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html)
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