Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-01-20 | 2016-01-22 →
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77204 @ 0.00056883 = 43.916 BTC [-]
mod6: third high-s tx was malleated also, went through, was confirmed as were previous two
mod6: here's my testing notes:
mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review:
BingoBoingo: !up cashforbtc
assbot: Uber Driver Gets A Free (Unwanted) Interior Car Cleaning - "You've Got Mail!!" - YouTube ... ( )
punkman: "The Uber driver was too good of a person and decided to take a cash settlement instead of pressing charges. In his words, "...she was crying (and) said (she) was sorry for everything." I don't want to disclose the amount the driver was paid, but can say he could only use the money to pay his cellphone bill and maybeee his cable bill."
punkman: not sure who's more despicable now
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:20:53; assbot: Pay no attention to sky high P/E ratios, outlandish global debt, or market selling restrictions. Continue to transfer your hard earned money to fund managers, like a good citizen. : investing ... ( )
assbot: Wife inherited 10 million. We're so lost it's not even funny. : personalfinance ... ( )
assbot: The U.S. Is At The Center Of The Global Economic Meltdown | Zero Hedge ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39550 @ 0.00055845 = 22.0867 BTC [-]
assbot: Album hosted on ... ( )
assbot: Mr. Mean-Spirited: BE MORE LIKE GOD ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Looks like some Individuals in the UK are starting to fight back against Obesity
assbot: Campaigners slam 'extremely worrying' comments blaming young woman for being punched - Mirror Online ... ( )
assbot: 17 year old (!!!) obeast takes fat hate in the face | fatpeoplehate ... ( )
BingoBoingo: ^ Mine where found at
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - "Mad Max: Fury Road" wins Oscar for Best Picture -
punkman: ;;obip 10000
gribble: Bitfinex | The weighted average price of BTC, 10000.0 coins up and down from the spread, is 414.85558 USD. | Data vintage: 0.0051 seconds
BingoBoingo: The other Toomim presenting his version of history
BingoBoingo: But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months
BingoBoingo: Seriously though the Marshall long fellow looks like Gavin ate Gavin
BingoBoingo: And is attached to a bunch of scams
BingoBoingo: "Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 07:30:02:oh darn, i already sold my bitcoin to pay for electricity a few days ago..."
BingoBoingo: Turd's too long to read really. Just try searching it for names and terms that should be in actual discussions about bitcoin and be astounded when they don't show up.
punkman: BingoBoingo: *Karpeles ate Gavin
BingoBoingo: We might actually be underestimating here
BingoBoingo: Google images suggests a BMI between 55 and 75
BingoBoingo: Solidly past the point of rag on a stick
copypaste: woah woah woah, BMI 55?
copypaste: surprised anyone at that weight is still alive
BingoBoingo: copypaste: Apparently you don't Walmart enough
copypaste: i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31.
assbot: Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover | Qntra ... ( )
copypaste: i'm 3'1"
BingoBoingo: That's reasonable.
BingoBoingo: You're skeleton's state if it wasn't a fragile mess is a mystery.
copypaste: indeed
BingoBoingo: It's one thing to have a condition. It's another thing to have condishuns.
copypaste: hahaha. yes i know what you mean.
BingoBoingo: It's not like your bones are failing because you decided to test the limits of normal anatomy by butter huffing your way to 500+ pounds
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 486 @ 0.00263159 = 1.279 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: There really ought to be a moral test to get a scooty puff.
BingoBoingo: A person who lacks the self preservation drive to eat themselves to the mass of two NFL linebackers should have to risk blowing out their knee traversing the walmart.
punkman: BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz?
assbot: Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59922 @ 0.00055868 = 33.4772 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18930 @ 0.00055927 = 10.587 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87896 @ 0.00056139 = 49.3439 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:49:55; BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news, bitcoin classic has even fewer nodes than bitcoin xt. who was that guy that was the me of something else again ? << They haven't even released a client publically yet
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:57:11; psztorc: So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: !rated psztorc
assbot: You rated user psztorc on 23-Sep-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else..
mircea_popescu: dude has no fucking idea a) what likely means ; b) what a gentleman's duty is, the next day after emitting in the forum an enormity like that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63250 @ 0.00056975 = 36.0367 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: << yeah. and as i wait, so does the play wait. the itches i get aren't in any sense in my body, for i wash. they're in the body politic, all.
assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 18:31:11; ascii_butugychag: but if you have a unique itch somewhere deep in a body cavity, and wait for somebody to come and scratch it ~for you~ - you may wait for a while.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.0005699 = 22.682 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:55:53; BingoBoingo: Prolly something about seeing how much has would actually commit to their dumpster fire
mircea_popescu: << lol i wonder what'd be left of reddit if kids actually had to show up in school.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 03:41:08; BingoBoingo: From the mines: "Our best hope to get miners to run bitcoin-classic or XT, is to beg super-hard for it."
mircea_popescu: << please no stakhanovist suicides mr. there's been the maximum allowable count of funerals this year.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 03:56:07; mod6: dear lord, i've had like 9 crackers with cheddar today and like 3 mtdews.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 04:26:43; mod6: im pretty sure that one was mallated.
mircea_popescu: << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 04:53:17; deedbot-: [Qntra] Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover -
mircea_popescu: << may i suggest either sticking with the "comprehensible" in which case say -hiDER -loDER or else go for shortness (i don't think you should) and call it -hs -ls ? this "highs" "lows" thing is worst of both worlds.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review:
mircea_popescu: as we'll forget which fucking high this is.
jurov: mircea_popescu: afaik DER is just encoding and it's different problem than S value used in signature itself
mircea_popescu: dude and he explained it to me once already. i'm like fixated.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i take it back. it'll have to do, can't be introducing case now.
mircea_popescu: mod6 why take out - vchSig.clear(); if you re-introduce it later in both branches ? ends up adding a line.
mircea_popescu: meh ima restate this.
mircea_popescu: blergh, i don't have the source.
mircea_popescu: sha512sum init.cpp
mircea_popescu: ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b init.cpp
mircea_popescu: what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ?
shinohai: morning #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: (this is prev release, test2)
mircea_popescu: to try and edit diffs by hand ? to nevermind ?
mircea_popescu: ah as luck would have it key.h matches. weird.
mircea_popescu: unsigned char pchSig[10000];// Can anyone explain why 10`000 ? Enough with the magic numbers already. << for the fucking record.
mircea_popescu: WHO CODES LIKE THIS
copypaste: i'll take a guess, seems like it's a signature, and 10k bytes is the expected length
copypaste: but that seems insanely long
copypaste: perhaps it's some intermediary for a signature, and the final return will be chopped to say something sane like 64, 128
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this kind of thing is pestilentially common in 1) microshit 2) folks who grew up on it. 'i'll leave a massive space on the stack so not to overflow because i can't count and also can't trust myself to put it in heap and remember to free()'
mircea_popescu: fuck that shit.
mircea_popescu: security through "bill gates should be enough to anally satisfy everyone"
copypaste: (2) is surprisingly common
copypaste: i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with
asciilifeform: i worked with a fella like that
copypaste: "so as not to overflow"
asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
asciilifeform: i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ?
asciilifeform: a garage big enough for a boeing, so as to not hit the walls ?
asciilifeform: part of the reason why software suxx is that the system appears to be quite forgiving of this kind of intellectual sloth
asciilifeform: 'what's an extra 10kB'
asciilifeform: forgives, and forgives, until we have a bitcoind that wants a GB/week of ram
asciilifeform: << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review:
mircea_popescu: motherfucker.
mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus.
mircea_popescu: WHO DOES THESE THINGS
asciilifeform: the heathens, who lack emacs ?
asciilifeform: and others, who edit their shit, who end up forced to use spaces to maintain the width ?
asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~
asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
asciilifeform: and is in fact something lusers are famous for doing - recall the folks which the 'comment commits' and 'formatting fixes' who munge entire projects ?
mircea_popescu: fuck that, im making a proper file. the diff looks like the end of the fucking world, but hey.
mircea_popescu: mod6 << in the humble hope that it may serve.
assbot: dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: <copypaste> i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with << mitigation amirite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: argh this is painful
mircea_popescu: i know ;/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you realize, this is likely the biggest patch so far
asciilifeform: and almost all of it is whitespace-munging
mircea_popescu: look, i can't use fucking space allignment. for one thing on some systems i need it 2space and on others 4.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you must do this, the right way is to separate the two
mircea_popescu: not to even go into all the semantic degradation when you go from 2 separators to just 1.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1 patch for the meat, another where just munge
asciilifeform: because the latter can be machine-checked
mircea_popescu: well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item
asciilifeform: at least in theory
mircea_popescu: for your convenience ima make one with spaces unmunged, 1 sec.
asciilifeform: ty. i might actually have the stamina to read that one.
asciilifeform: fwiw i've deliberately refrained from munging whitespace or even fixing the asinine { } convention used in trb
asciilifeform: just to minimize touched-line count
assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( )
asciilifeform: because reading patches is serious work, i personally do not even have all that much time and energy these days, and other folks less still. i try to conserve it.
asciilifeform: neato mircea_popescu. much better !
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how i'd in any sense seriously do anything with bs
mircea_popescu: yes, conserve. on the other hand, the unknown unknowns : how many people currently simply CAN NOT help because of this ?
asciilifeform: because of whitespace ?
mircea_popescu: bullshit like you know, avboiding the word cunt because it might make it impossible for some developers to contribute isn't worth the time of day
mircea_popescu: but spaces for tabs is a fucking disability.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tu quoque ffs! just five minutes ago, you got to see what it does.
asciilifeform: the spaces thing is just one in 10,001 sad things in a jupiter-sized ball of sad that is trb.
mircea_popescu: in honesty, without any exaggeration, i would estimate the barrier to contribution that whitespace-for-tab puts in front of me is actually larger than the barrier blindness put in front of chetty.
mircea_popescu: no joking.
mircea_popescu: and i can't be the only one.
asciilifeform: the way this kind of thing is traditionally handled, where i worked, is that you fix the lines you touch.
mircea_popescu: that's what i did.
asciilifeform: in the last paste ?
mircea_popescu: ah. well i fixed the file i touched.
mircea_popescu: srsly, mixed tab/space indentation in a file is worse than either.
asciilifeform: + if (fHighS)
asciilifeform: + if (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)
mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable.
asciilifeform: oughtat be
asciilifeform: if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0))
asciilifeform: your variant is valid c but 'riding with no hands'
mircea_popescu: technically mod6's variant, i only removed some spurious tails. but i think you're right.
asciilifeform: generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible
asciilifeform: << incidentally, ~this~ is what the 'origin' command in my vtron did
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:23; mircea_popescu: blergh, i don't have the source.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a problem - i should have the source.
mircea_popescu: ie, it should be the prev release.
asciilifeform: ./v o HASH would spit out the relevant vpatch name
asciilifeform: which you could then press to, and end up with the necessary source.
asciilifeform: i included this because i have 10,001 copies of the tree and every single one is different and wtf
asciilifeform: << anybody want to attempt a reliable translation from heathen tongue ?
mircea_popescu: in retrospect, i deeply regret not having had the sense of s/ /\t/g back when i made the original genesis commit. but... who knew the future then, and sopmehow being true to source, providing untouched water seemed more important. heck, maybe it was, and the only reason i get to regret doing it is having done it, which keeps me from the more bitter regret of having done it.
mircea_popescu: at any rate : maybe it's not too late to fix. what do the lords think about this plan :
mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
mircea_popescu: !rated mod6
assbot: You rated user mod6 on 27-Nov-2014, with a rating of 4, and supplied these additional notes: The cave, age, tace school of thought. Nice work with the Bitcoin Foundation..
mircea_popescu: !rate mod6 5 His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mod6.5:cde99987242f16de77dd84d523f93a0717dc5ed2029031b9ea1c7659e22c45da
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 4 to 5 with note: His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the tab/space thing has infected the source code?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform heathen text seems a summary of the entire "scaling" bitcoin bs.
mod6: Mornin' all.
mod6: Sorry about the spaces in there where I put in my changes, I can and will fix that for my changes. And yeah, I think post-release it may not be a bad idea to do a one-time-cleanup of all of that.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)) <+asciilifeform> generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible << yeah, i dont know why I didn't do this to begin with. Heheh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i'm heavily in favour of the 'fix only the lines we touch' school of thought. the whole point of pedigreed-vintage trb is that the totality of the changes we made is apparent to the naked eye.
asciilifeform: this is one of the things that distinguishes trb from heathenb
asciilifeform: 'your father's pistols' etc
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform << re: There is no reason to test for both highS and lowS being set, because this is tested in init.cpp already, ... << For some reason I had it in my head that since this gets set in util.h/.cpp that both may become set at some point post execution if someone does something funny.
assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( )
mircea_popescu: mod6 you didn't do it because it wasn't in your code, it only appeared once i snipped a bunch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know ;/
mod6: oh hmm. i think i put in some spaces in there.
mircea_popescu: but ... a specified, machine-verifiable, multi-signed split ? not acceptable ?
mod6: also, about : I left the original code in Sign(...) in the } else { case because i thought it be necessary to have a default. if we don't have one, it forces the user to pick -highs -lows every single time they execute.
assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( )
mircea_popescu: mod6 this is a point, but really that heathen 10k declaration should go away.
mod6: oh i totally agree. its just an old wart.
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm misreading this, but atm if neither high nor low is picked the code does spit out a sig neh ?
mircea_popescu: ie, in my paste.
mod6: oh yeah, derp. so in yours it will just skip the compare and if true, subtract sections.
mod6: so that should be fine.
mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them?
mod6: yah, i better remove those.
mircea_popescu: they can stay or go, entirely up to you.
mircea_popescu: i don't particularly mind commented-out line tests.
mod6: thanks for all of your comments this morning. I appreciate everyone taking a look at this one.
mircea_popescu: if nothing else gives a good idea of what the author was thinking.
mircea_popescu: actually, forcing a point, commented out line tests is really the first step towards knuth literate coding.
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, is not to be taken lightly. it occurs to me, looking at all this, that it has a very fundamental function in maintaining codebases of the KIND that bitcoin is.
punkman: there's literate and there's littering
mircea_popescu: specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison)
mircea_popescu: now, battles as to change are softened : people discuss reformulations OF THE COMMENTARY.
mircea_popescu: as that changes, changes in code slowly become ever slightly more possible
mircea_popescu: this is a splendid mechanism to provide true consensus.
thestringpuller: LOL >> "Don't forget Mr Popescu, who loves to harp on about how Bitcoin is not for the unwashed masses, just two weeks ago had a hugely embarrassing fiasco where he revealed he hadn't the faintest idea how Bitcoin transactions work.
mircea_popescu: punkman true. hence the 100 lines are the result of numerous different pressures.
thestringpuller: Like most newbies he thought you spent from addresses rather than prior receipts."
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ? << i lel'd
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller we can;'t all be geniuses, can we now.
mircea_popescu: of course the talmud gets away with an earth shattering bonus : "other rules notwithstanding, the law in any place is what the law always was there". they can afford, somehow, to keep geographically bound chains that are disjunct. we can't. but hey, chosen people, gets advantages.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison) << I never thought of it this way.
mod6: interesting.
mircea_popescu: that there should be more comment than code in something like bitcoin source seems an unassailable point, to me.
punkman: less cryptic variable naming would also be great
deedbot-: [Trilema] The funny thing about the fallen is that they do not know they fell. -
mircea_popescu: not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother.
mod6: i would agree there, but on the basis that the comments are accurate in a technical sense. nothing worse than misleading comments or documentation, as we've recently discussed.
mircea_popescu: mod6 absolutely. hence punkman's point re littering.
mod6: *nod*
punkman: problem is, who wants 100 patches with comments only
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother. << yeah, im not sure why the var name needs to delcare that it is a vector of chars.
mircea_popescu: i suspect this is also msvc widgetry.
mod6: ^
mircea_popescu: the problem of tab-spaces is indicative of many similar blessings to come.
mircea_popescu: once half the variables are in one style and half in three or four other styles etc.
mircea_popescu: kinda why i insist we must do the "by file touched" rather than "by lines touched" thing.
mod6: yeah, valid point.
mircea_popescu: a file can't mix unlike things.
mod6: re: your comment about tabs of width 2 or 4; going forward, I'll use width 4.
mircea_popescu: how are ~you~ going to do anything about it ? i set my machine to show them any way i want.
mod6: right right. but I think i put in some spaces in my code there for alignment. just saying, i'll stick to using four.
mod6: your patch really is easier to read since leaving in the vchSig.clear() etc at the top instead of moving it to the bottom like mine had.
mod6: many thanks.
mircea_popescu: eh you're the one should be thanked.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item << ok good deal. was kinda wondering if the forthcoming release patch should bundle this one in or not.
mircea_popescu: well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether
mod6: Was thinking of putting in alf's latest two also -- but I think we need some confirmation on at least the version string one. shinohai was having some snags with it.
mircea_popescu is loath to do too much of that sort, because as correctly pointed out, mircea_popescu is a noob in the low level technical sense. without an array of experts to advise and correct, i'll just fuck everything up.
mod6: asciilifeform: not sure if you found some of questions/comments in the log from yesterday re this ^^
asciilifeform: wai wut
mircea_popescu: i also don't fix any of the combustion engines that i own by myself - even if once i took apart and put back together a trabant.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether << yeah, ok. i'll do some work here today / tonight, do a re-test and the hopefully get it to the ML before the week is out.
asciilifeform: mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ?
mod6: we can discuss this again as we get further along.
asciilifeform: i can't seem to find it in the logz
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ? << i'll dig it up, just a sec.
thestringpuller: Ah this takes the cake: "I had to reload Reddit like 4 times before it started working. If reddit wants me as a customer, they should increase their blocksize"
asciilifeform: << that particular heathenry has a name, 'hungarian notation'. named after some chap at microshit who believed that it reduces bugs
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:31:59; mircea_popescu: i suspect this is also msvc widgetry.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure there it did.
assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 23:46:05; shinohai: Also mod6 re: version strings, placing flags first had zero effect so I probably did something wrong. :/
asciilifeform: it is sort of like concept that once came to me in a dream, about some alt-world where all names are sexed, and hence nobody is named 'alice', but 'fmalice', no 'bob', but 'malbob'
mircea_popescu: i don't think the difference was ever stressed enough or for that matter all that well understood. what "big studios" do for software, ie, throwaway crap that's not expected to a) work for everyone or b) work for more than a few years is VERY STRICTLY opposite to what bitcoin does.
mircea_popescu: just like "AAA titles" and eulora have jack in common, but that's a side point.
asciilifeform: this seems thermonuclearly obvious
asciilifeform: to anybody even tangentially involved
mircea_popescu: malbob and f-malice. this should be a fucking poem.
mircea_popescu: it's as poetic as it gets.
mod6: heheh
asciilifeform: mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in ro names are sexed - mircea is the only male name that ends in a.
shinohai: ah now I understand asciilifeform thx
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've met ro dudes who go by nicknames, e.g., cata (catalin) etc
mircea_popescu: that's not a, that's a~
mircea_popescu: actually the convention is you can take any male name add a and name a girl thus.
mircea_popescu: hence catalina.
thestringpuller: catalina
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:23:26; mircea_popescu: specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison)
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:16:29; ascii_butugychag: i assume that everybody here has at least seen a page of talmud ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! << personally I haven't even tried this yet. but I think he was saying that he checked the getinfo and that hadn't updated either.
mod6: i'll see if i can get to it today, and give it a try myself.
mircea_popescu: have you eaten mod6 ?
mod6: haha no.
mod6: i am about to eat a decent breakfast in like 1.5 hours.
mircea_popescu: do not take after me. for even as we speak, the girls are up and chirping in the kitchen making me stuff.
mod6: ok, i'm gonna go have an orange.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite.
shinohai: mod6 Load up those 7 hookers you spoke of last night and come over. I got lox and eggs.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what are they making you for breakfast?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. but it'll include fig bars!
mircea_popescu: yesterday was smoked salmon, cheeses and cured meats.
thestringpuller: i wish I knew women that cooked
thestringpuller: america with it's faux feminism has kinda killed cooking
mircea_popescu: ironically, none of these knew either.
mircea_popescu: visiting mother at some point "omaigerd you cook so good!!1"
thestringpuller: nothing beats good training! (except maybe a good beating)
mircea_popescu: cooking is actually an artform, indisputably, and readily the easiest to be good at and happy with yourself for.
mircea_popescu: who gets to eat the clay pot or painting ?
assbot: Is anyone else sick of all the bullshit ethereum spam??? : Bitcoin ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57168 @ 0.00056956 = 32.5606 BTC [-]
mod6: ;;calc 607*2000
gribble: 1214000
mod6: it says that during this 'Stakhanovite movement' in the su, this guy Nikita Izotov mined 607 TONS of coal in a single shift. That's ~1M folks.
mod6: O_O
mircea_popescu: meanwhile debunked, but yeah
mod6: oh.
mircea_popescu: it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts".
mircea_popescu: ie, "this cpu normally does 4ghz, i run it at 8. it's doing so much more for me than... oops, it popped. need a new cpu"
mod6: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: ./uint256.h: static char phexdigit[256] = { 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 };
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this maigc.
mircea_popescu: holy shit the stuff that's in uint256.h ?!
mircea_popescu: anyone seen this wonder ?
assbot: dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( )
asciilifeform: l0l i can't wait till mircea_popescu discovers all of the 'wonders'
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 16:25:12; mircea_popescu: it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prior to the article i'm writing now, i had naively believed the thing is some standard library imported from whenever
asciilifeform: which thing
mircea_popescu: uint256.h
asciilifeform: you will notice that #include "uint256.h"
asciilifeform: rather than #include <uint256.h>
mircea_popescu: i have meanwhile noticed
mircea_popescu: i hadn't priorly noticed. what's one to do
asciilifeform: the whole thing is 99+% crapolade by weight, and nobody sane dares to 'fix what works' because 'father's pistols'
mircea_popescu: incidentally, did we have a lxr up of the codebase or something ?
asciilifeform: aha, jurov keeps it
assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/ ... ( )
asciilifeform: (use the box on the right hand upper corner to switch presses)
asciilifeform: until recently i used this www for just about all trb study
mircea_popescu: before i couldn't do merchant of venice because broken tools. now can't because instead going through 10k lines dump to find the junk.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> anyone seen this wonder ? << scary huh
assbot: dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ./net.cpp: Sleep(10);
mircea_popescu: omfg ok i need a break
asciilifeform wonders what moved mircea_popescu to try his hand at trbism
trinque: /b #sales
trinque: heh!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever been in college and ended up picking up chicks you were only half interested in because it sure as fuck beat doing the work you had to do that day ?
mircea_popescu: ThreadOpenConnections2(parg); << im not even including inept shit like this. clearly someone deeply understood threading.
mircea_popescu: int64 nRandomizer = (uint64)(nStart * 4951 + addr.nLastTry * 9567851 + addr.ip * 7789) % (2 * 60 * 60);
mircea_popescu: motherfucking god almighty.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: approximately
asciilifeform: the WHOLE THING consists of THIS
asciilifeform: and as i described (and i think ben_vulpes did even earlier) the thing isn't ~actually~ multithreaded, in the sense of being able to evaluate multiple requests in parallel
mircea_popescu: ./main.h: void SetNull() { nFile = -1; nBlockPos = 0; nTxPos = 0; } << lulz of all time.
mircea_popescu: null squared is sometimes equal to the unit!
mircea_popescu: i should like to visit this algebra sometime.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitely not multithreaded. which, given the strength of everything else, is a very good thing.
asciilifeform: nah it retains all of the minuses of multithread.
asciilifeform: with none of the plus.
mircea_popescu: just going from "could be a lot worse"
asciilifeform: thing is as bad as it could possibly be without falling down at the first gust of wind.
mircea_popescu: o god, the parade of magic substr addresses
asciilifeform: but there are, e.g., 101+ ways to hose an arbitrarily selected node for as long as you like
asciilifeform: and there is a variety of things you can coax a node into doing if you can corrupt the db; etc
mircea_popescu: no idea why anyone thinks "bitcoin will take over the world". they can't possibly be talking of the prb codebase.
asciilifeform: the current prb is a different kind of hell altogether
mircea_popescu: all this initing to -1 business...
mircea_popescu: who, over the mental age of ~12, does this
asciilifeform: if trb is sleeping in a dumpster and picking old razors out of the rotting mcd 'meal' trays to eat, prb is drowning in a usg paper dump
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: init to -1 is classical unixism, sorta like initing pointers to null
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how classical. perhaps in the gavin aka retarded sense of classical,
asciilifeform: the basic idiocy of unix is that there is NO error checking in any system call
asciilifeform: you are stuck checking the result of EVERY SINGLE ONE - or praying
asciilifeform: so folks init a var where result of system call is stored to the value of failure
asciilifeform: to make debugging the case where the call was not made at all, for whatever perverse reason, simpler.
assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
mircea_popescu: then there's the case (as is here) of folk who can't get out of the fencing error so fix the code on the 2nd pass.
mircea_popescu: "i guess this really should start counting at -2"
asciilifeform: '...neither Unix nor Windows _actually_ support either C or C++, but they manage to make them work, with downright incredible effort. if you look inside the libraries and see how a system call actually works and how much it differs from the C calling convention and usage, you'd be a fool not to revise your opinion. and _does_ an operating system that forces the programmer to check to see whether the operating system did what
asciilifeform: it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "./wallet.cpp: exit(1); //We now probably have half of our keys encrypted in memory, and half not...die and let the user reload their unencrypted wallet."
asciilifeform: i did say, in the very beginning, 'i want this in a book, as a reference' etc
asciilifeform: because the notion of using this thing, or anything directly derived from it, as a long-term anything, is lunacy.
asciilifeform: 'fixing' it is sorta like asking to 'fix' the dumpster mcdonalds chicken bits into an actual meal.
asciilifeform: yes, odin could re-arrange the atoms and form a fine dinner fit for mircea_popescu's table.
asciilifeform: but don't wait for this.
asciilifeform: and also don't wait for me to write a fits-in-head and provably non-misbehaving btc client, even though i would much like to, know exactly how, and even have bits'n'pieces sitting around. because instead of this i'm stuck doing pointless crud in шарашка, so as to eat.
thestringpuller: so if we provide asciilifeform 's meals then he is freed from imprisonment?
mircea_popescu: sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence.
mircea_popescu: from the ashes of the very alf in question or not, remains to be seen
asciilifeform: well, we already have a mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: and he appears to have taken up programming...
thestringpuller: pheonix asciilifeform will be a very interesting person indeed
asciilifeform: why do you need two mircea_popescus.
mircea_popescu: the man who had a working plane and no boat made himself a leaky boat that couldn't fly. then the japanese bombed him.
thestringpuller: you could always go the gavin route and beg MIT for money.
thestringpuller: but i don't think that results in freedom
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if you knew what i do for money today you would barf to death.
thestringpuller: does that involve taking it up the butt regularly for money?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: nah, that's harmless fun in comparison
mircea_popescu: ./script.h: const_iterator pc2 = pc;
thestringpuller: my job usually devolves into copy-pasting from one terminal to another for hours at a time.
thestringpuller: how programming == data entry, I don't know
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: and can't automate this, because will be sacked, as pictured in ?
assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( )
mircea_popescu: return 99999;
mircea_popescu: ./base58.h: // Expected size increase from base58 conversion is approximately 137%
mircea_popescu: ./base58.h: // use 138% to be safe
mircea_popescu: for instance, 10OIl0OIl0OIl0OIl== in base64 comes to 138% more crud in "base58"
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Legend has it that Potter was promptly fired, never to be heard from again. << HOLY FUCKTITS. This is my life!
asciilifeform: whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing.
asciilifeform: yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title.
asciilifeform: for the most part, nature does not deal in chimeras.
thestringpuller: this reminds me of the heinlein quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for i
asciilifeform: and one of the problems with 'free men' is that growing up as one tends to result in 'an aristotle' - aristocrat, who may be a very sharp fella but is not especially handy with 'slave crafts' and would normally not stoop to, e.g., programming a computer
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: heinlein was... a story-teller.
asciilifeform: there is nothing wrong with this.
thestringpuller: it sounds like you don't believe a polymath can truly exist
thestringpuller: err language escapes my bacon filled self
gernika: !down gernika
asciilifeform: 'polymath' i suspect would describe most of the folks here. but the point i was trying to make is that in many ways certain aspects of mircea_popescu's picture in are intrinsically opposed
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:36:35; mircea_popescu: sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence.
thestringpuller: Hmmm. Seems this could be issue with jgarzik. Some like, 10 years of focus at redhat. Is "freed" from his slave labor, does nothing with his freedom.
asciilifeform: this applies to EVERY SINGLE CASE of 'freed' programming type i've ever met or so much as heard of.
thestringpuller: question arises, "How to use freedom productively?"
asciilifeform: 'don't destroy your brain with 20 years of cube first' ?
asciilifeform: the freedom of the 80 y.o. retiree is not interesting for anything.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing. << pfff. nonsense.
thestringpuller: obviously because 80 year old just wants to fuck bitches and chill.
asciilifeform: now i've never actually met a chess-boxer. but it would not astonish me if i learned that they keep the company of other boxers and regard actual Großmeisters, who devoted their lives to chess, as effete lusers.
mircea_popescu: so basically you're a heinlein for your own needs.
asciilifeform: what's that mean
mircea_popescu: that you're making up stories. for a captive audience that's easy to please.
mircea_popescu: back at insanity ranch, ./net.h: vSend << a1 << a2 << a3;
mircea_popescu: why not call all variables v1 through v9000 is anyone's guyess.
asciilifeform: why not visit the sanity ranch and see how they did it
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu ever wonder about the scarcity of code written by sane folks ?
asciilifeform: i suspect that learning to program is a fundamentally insane act.
asciilifeform: and that this is the prime mover of it all.
mircea_popescu: not so. just like fucking isn't a fundamentally insane act.
asciilifeform: it is rather like asking why circus acrobats are odd folk
mircea_popescu: your arguments exactly mirror a broken version of reality pushed forth by overgrown girls that are yet affraid to be women.
asciilifeform: which one ?
mircea_popescu: "learning to program is a fundamentally insane act."
asciilifeform: it is a hypothesis with much predictive power, and is not altogether different from aristotle's position on whether kings ought to learn blacksmithing
mircea_popescu: still a dead end. exactly equivalent with soviet woman's conclusion that getting married is an exercise in insanity.
asciilifeform: the woman, on the whole, has a biological role
asciilifeform: and tends to break in ways not covered by warranty, as a whole, if fails to perform it
asciilifeform: but as far as i'm aware, there is no biological 'programmer race'
asciilifeform: (as dwarves 'must mine' in 'd&d' universes)
mircea_popescu: i can't say i see merit in any of these propositions.
asciilifeform: i'd be worried if mircea_popescu ~did~ see merit, would suspect that the universe is coming unglued
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, clever folk who strike gold in whatever form, who programmed, tend to gravitate away from it - iirc mthreat is doing a sane thing, flying old ru jets, rather than dredging through cpp crud
asciilifeform: and from mircea_popescu's articles i get the impression that his meatspace friends are respectable folk, 'high power' lawyers, traders, etc. rather than cpp connoisseurs
asciilifeform: sane people.
mircea_popescu: chet coded c++.
asciilifeform: and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion.
mircea_popescu: and the idea is inept. yes i know a lot of "respectable folk". i also know a lot of common whores. and everything in between.
asciilifeform: the whores are respectable.
mircea_popescu: i even know some dogs.
asciilifeform: as are dogs
mircea_popescu: and a coupla whorses.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion. << actually that dpaste earlier was the first time in at least 10 years.
asciilifeform: at any rate, it is perfectly safe for a king to entertain himself by being a blacksmith, or a sailor - as peter the great did
asciilifeform: (and iirc he was a pretty good one)
mircea_popescu: it's however NOT safe at all for blacksmith to entertain himself by telling stories about what peter does and why.
asciilifeform: but folks who knew the forge from the age of five, tend to not end up kings..
mircea_popescu: this is also not true.
asciilifeform: i suppose herr ceausescu would be a counter-example
mircea_popescu: numerous examples throughout.
mircea_popescu: ;;google voda ioan potcoava
gribble: Ioan Potcoavă - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă, domn al Moldovei - <,_domn_al_Moldovei>; Domnitori - Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă - <>
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu is correct re: that i cannot possibly have any idea ~why~ peter 1 did what he did.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ioan p. reminds me, there really oughta be some good material floating about re: the 20th c. chinese 'warlords' (as they are for some reason called in english world)
mircea_popescu: well... what'd you call them ? seems quite apt.
asciilifeform: some of them were pretty interesting folk
asciilifeform: one comes to mind, who hired germans to build him a mustard gas factory
asciilifeform: somehow i escaped this in ukr school
mircea_popescu: weird huh.
asciilifeform: Панували, добували / І славу, і волю; / Минулося — осталися / Могили на полі.
asciilifeform: notbad.jpg
mircea_popescu: i suppose programmers also don't get to know about respectable hatmans ?
asciilifeform: hey i knew a few.
mircea_popescu: requires being fed royal jelly to know of this!
asciilifeform: батька атаман (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: FILE* file = fopen(strprintf("%s/blk%04d.dat", GetDataDir().c_str(), nFile).c_str(), pszMode);
mircea_popescu: !up Terry4
thestringpuller: ;;ud royal jelly
gribble: | Royal Jelly. The glorious coating surrounding a cock when it pulls out of an asshole that has not been prelubed. The asshole has created a natural lubricant that ...
mircea_popescu: ./main.cpp- for (;;) << i don't get it, if it's going to do plain for(;;) why the fuck does it want the fancy boost_foreach ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it\'s the stuff bee larva get fed to become sluts rather than housewives.
assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for(;;) is an infinite loop
asciilifeform: boost_foreach is not, it is an iterator over some set
mircea_popescu: oh i thought it had some implicit termination, nm.
asciilifeform: incidentally not so long ago i felt the desire to rewrite chunks of trb to abolish boost
asciilifeform: by using c++11-isms
Terry4: Did you see the strategy about subsiding bitcoin miners to stay on the original BTC, (as a last case scenario to defeat any alt-chain)?
asciilifeform: but then realized that this would lead us into perdition
asciilifeform: that is, using corrupted versions of gcc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would much like a complete list of boost structures, with analysis.
mircea_popescu: but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers.
mircea_popescu: five or so steps below. but gotta start where the seafloor is, nothing else.
asciilifeform: (boost exists largely because cpp is not actually programmable in without using something like boost. which has been largely incorporated into the recent standard.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what you're really interested in is std:: structures
mircea_popescu: ./main.cpp: if (nProcessors < 1) nProcessors = 1;
asciilifeform: boost is used in trb for iterators, for the most part
mircea_popescu: my display is slowlyt decaying from displaying this fucking buffer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was thinking that would go later.
asciilifeform: jurov did some diggin on std::map and everybody barfed
asciilifeform: unsurprisingly
mircea_popescu: i think ima end up with fucking dead pixels that satoshi burned.
asciilifeform: whatcha even doing
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers. <<
asciilifeform: as in stray constants ?
mircea_popescu: no. as in magic numbers. anyway, you'll see.
mircea_popescu: ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
mircea_popescu: ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2011 The Bitcoin developers
mircea_popescu: ^inept fuckiing shit. who the fuck thinks this is how it works ?
asciilifeform: every batch of plowing flies on the planet ?
mircea_popescu: Copyright 2010 Disney corp ; Copyright 2013 internet-derps. whynot!
asciilifeform: 'kicking the dead lion'
mircea_popescu: ./db.cpp: // Tray icon sometimes disappears on 9.10 karmic koala 64-bit, leaving no way to access the program
mircea_popescu: ./db.cpp- fMinimizeToTray = false;
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell beautyon what do you like about the vc wordpress anyway ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: BN_rshift segfaults on 64-bit if 2^shift is greater than the number if built on ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, probably depends on version of openssl
mircea_popescu: hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful.
mircea_popescu: ./crypter.cpp- // Note as well that at no point in this program is any attempt made to prevent stealing of keys by reading the memory of the running process. << this is oddly the right choice.
mod6: had a nice big breakfast for lunch.
mod6: and a pretty lengthy walk. so nb.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful. << found this, seems like the opposite tho:
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:38:53; mircea_popescu: << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line.
mircea_popescu: mod6 aha of histoprical interest.
thestringpuller: it's funny trying to see evoorhees play politician
thestringpuller: "guise guise guise. can't we just all get along. plz? we shouldn't be having civil wars guise."
thestringpuller: reminds me of a young lincoln
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:26:39; punkman: BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz?
mircea_popescu: "<amount> is a real and is rounded to the nearest 0.00000001\n"
mircea_popescu: good god.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00056685 = 48.0122 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: It's possible Magnus Carlsen makes the switch to the hybrid sport
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:49; asciilifeform: yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title.
mircea_popescu: << actually the concept can be introduced much neater. there exist two sorts of men in this world, and they are distinguished readily when an alluring woman makes an interesting proposal. some can't, and some "let's go". the principle (in reverse), is illustrated in
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:17; asciilifeform: whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing.
assbot: The Romanian language for other people. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu has found himself, iwthout interruption, in this position for as long as he can remember, which'd be a good three decades by now.
mircea_popescu: it has exactly 0 to do with money, because schoolchildren have no money. it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: some kids gotta ask their parents, some don't.
mircea_popescu: this is, contrary to what everyone'd like to think, strictly unrelated to the parents.
mircea_popescu: so... you want to know why i'm trampling all over this grep dump rioght now ? it... it fucking winked!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when i was a small boy, my elder brother taught me a lesson once:
asciilifeform: he said 'i will give you a gift! a real computer!'
asciilifeform: i say 'no way.' next day...
asciilifeform: he hands me a matchbox.
asciilifeform: when i push it out, nothing in it
asciilifeform: he: 'flip it over'
asciilifeform: when you push it, the word правильно (CORRECT)
asciilifeform: it worked !1111111
mircea_popescu: sure. so what's the problem with that ?
asciilifeform: it worked great.
asciilifeform: and reading mircea_popescu on certain subjects is rather reminiscent of this 'computer'
asciilifeform: he could give a good gift to folks, matchbox that when pushed tells you:
asciilifeform: 'you aren't virile enough! go feed yourself to pigz!111'
mircea_popescu: what else do you expect is there.
mircea_popescu: the reverse ?
asciilifeform: back when the english folks were literate, they had a name for this,
asciilifeform: 'dismal science'
mircea_popescu: you know a) the intention was to contrast it with GAY science
asciilifeform: there is nothing wrong with this, once one adjusts one's expectations.
mircea_popescu: and b) it was used for economics not metaphysics.
asciilifeform: no parachute, just a helpful fella telling you how many metres until your splat.
asciilifeform: fwiw, unlike some folks, i appreciate this gift. sorta like when doctor tells 'you have six months'. would you rather be surprised ?
asciilifeform: it beats ambling about like redditard, smashing into every possible wall, and never knowing why.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I know it's l0l cuz I spend my life making robots to do my slave labor for me. I feel bad for the robots tho. I dunno man. Working in web dev, the developers are insane. It's like everyone wants to use some new unproven technology Y before fixing technology X first that it's built upon.
thestringpuller: Perhaps this is from consumer has come to expect mentality of everything being "flashy and pretty" but it makes me cringe cause you never have truly correct way of doing things. Just correct way of doing broken thing.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: nobody gets paid to fix foundations.
asciilifeform: it is bad business sense.
asciilifeform: (in that most of the reward will be reaped by others, who paid nothing)
mircea_popescu: only in some definitions of pay and business.
thestringpuller: So how is derp supposed to even begin to learn correctness, if he can't understand what a correct foundation is.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ideally he learned it in kindergarten when he added 2+2. correctly.
asciilifeform: if this was not so, there is no cure.
mircea_popescu: did you just...matchbox ?!
thestringpuller: ;;ud matchbox
gribble: | Matchbox. A three-some in the back of a car. Guy 1: Dude I hooked up with Sarah and Kourtney in the back of my car lastnight! Guy 2: DUDE YOU JUST HAD A ...
asciilifeform: neither of us 'asked parents', played with matches, yes
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: ideally he learned it in kindergarten
thestringpuller: ^-well in this context you can learn correct foundation
thestringpuller: but what if foundation is broken on layers above
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there was an episode at c3 involving a box of matches, prolly what mircea_popescu was remembering.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i meant just above.
thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT.
thestringpuller: Rinse repeat.
asciilifeform: there was never any other way to learn from other people.
thestringpuller: Not with the bastardization of education being dumbed down for the so-called masses.
thestringpuller: In fact when I was thinking of going into education one of the courses I took harped on the fact that the best mode of teaching is pairing a real expert with student apprenticeship style.
asciilifeform: i've never known any thinking folk who actually relied on 'public education' for any useful thing they knew.
thestringpuller: But this isn't feasible economically.
mircea_popescu: ./serialize.h:// There's a clever template way to make arrays serialize normally, but MSVC6 doesn't support it
mircea_popescu: msvc shouldn't even be fucking supported in the first place.
asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu is really enjoying this, somehow
mircea_popescu: of course.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever read the thing before ?
thestringpuller: I learned to code on MSVC lol. QBasic -> MSVC_6 -> Linux
mircea_popescu: not in a systematic manner.
thestringpuller: and I thought Linux was ideal, but it turns out even that is bastardized.
mircea_popescu: i'm not reading now either, just had some summaries made by a rule
mircea_popescu: as opposed to the usual manner (human-directed)
asciilifeform: lemme guess, grepped for comments, and for 0-9
asciilifeform: has anybody been graphing ph0rklets ?
asciilifeform: massive shitflood of doublespends
asciilifeform: and, interestingly, it is very easy to distinguish the tx spamola with naked eye
asciilifeform: (moves very fresh coin back'n'forth)
assbot: The sad state of Bitcoin code on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: and yes it is obvious.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, re conference matchbox vs правильно matchbox, it is apparent that the matchsticks are more interesting than the box alone.
assbot: 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 09:34:54; BingoBoingo: But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months
mircea_popescu: << i don't think bmi is intended to cover that case.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:04:15; copypaste: i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31.
mircea_popescu: notably, at-birth ideal bmi is 3÷0.5^2=12.
deedbot-: [Trilema] The sad state of Bitcoin code -
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) July 2016 to drop under 20 USD before June -
mircea_popescu: << iirc she was pretty hot, back in the 90s or w/e.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:47:32; assbot: Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29277 @ 0.00056271 = 16.4745 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: jurov: mega-link
asciilifeform: << he has a full toolchain, incl. c compiler, and several emulators for it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72799 @ 0.00055995 = 40.7638 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: every once in a while, i run into somebody like this
asciilifeform: who understands the von neumann shitstack VERY WELL
asciilifeform: so well that their trying to somehow reboot it, rather than burning it to the ground, begins to beggar the imagination
asciilifeform: 'It is called the 'One-Page CPU' because you can fit the specification on an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper without margins using 8 point Consolas font, and still have lots of room to spare. It is intended to be an easy to emulate compile target that supports context switching and interrupts.'
mircea_popescu: << all the items read to me like stuff typical of what happens with ad-hoc development by "tech savvy" people.
assbot: 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( )
asciilifeform: i suspect that ~emergence~ is a difficult concept for people. e.g., the fact that the digits of 'pi' are not in any sense 'random'
asciilifeform: or that the sea of shit in which we are now drowning was implicit in 1940s model of computer, and is no accident
mircea_popescu: i don't think most paradigms... to call personal ideologies thusly, do not allow for emergence specifically
mircea_popescu: to assuage the fear of death issue.
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'mips' cpu fits on one page: it was printed in the inner cover of the book my brother went to school with, and likewise inside same book, edition of decade later, and is in every other systems arch. book on the planet, also inside front cover.
asciilifeform: so there is nothing new there.
asciilifeform: reducing the cpu instruction set is sorta like lancing one particular bubonic boil on the body of a plague victim.
mircea_popescu: 5) Function Macros And Recursion <<< "What ended up being the bug in my preprocessor for this test case was in evaluating the argument prescanned tokens that were passed to a function macro invocation. If the function macro being invoked contained a token with the same identifier as the function macro being invoked, but didn't actually call that function macro, it would incorrectly disable this token. This bug combine
mircea_popescu: d with another bug where tokens were copied by reference would mean that disabling one token could disable it in other places, so the outer valid macro invocation's token would be disabled and never able to expand again. The bug was around step (34)."
mircea_popescu: jesus shit this shouldn't exist.
asciilifeform: it is all-pervasive.
asciilifeform: there is no place in computingdom where one does not find it after just a light scratch.
assbot: The sad state of Bitcoin code on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: aha. becqause for thugs not for cunts.
asciilifeform: how does that make the difference ?
mircea_popescu: !s "whenever man sits down to do anything"
assbot: 1 results for '"whenever man sits down to do anything"' :
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm not entirely sure.
asciilifeform: i was somehow under the idea that the romans lounged around in their communal shitters, both sexes, for hours at a stretch, for no particularly good reason, just chit-chat
asciilifeform: but not sure how i came upon this.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, and perhaps relatedly, for a long time the concept of toilet consisted of a ditch api, upon which you could implement your arbitrary toilet at any point through placing a wooden beam\
mircea_popescu: that was the bath not the shitter.
mircea_popescu: the idea that toilet belongs by the pool is about as alien to the roman as the idea that toilet belongs by kitchen sink is to you.
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise
asciilifeform: cloaka maxima was open air, etc.
asciilifeform: sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai I am disappoint (sarcasm)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction. << Not sealed the whole way, settling ponds etc
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But there are definitely open shit pipes headed to the sea. Mississippi river is prime example.
BingoBoingo: "Chun has made a concrete hard fork proposal since – though the details of this proposal are not yet clear."
trinque: straight into the shitpipe with that
mircea_popescu: concrete means things nao
shinohai: Hey BingoBoingo I emailed them twice, no one ever responded.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Hence the sarcasm
mircea_popescu: does that link load anything for anyone ?
assbot: F2Pool: Chinese Pools Will Stick with Bitcoin Core | Bitcoin Magazine ... ( )
shinohai: I figured they weren't gonna say much until an "official announcement" despite Garzik trying to fly over and garner Classic support.
mircea_popescu: buncha inconsequential derps already.
shinohai: "I admire Dr. Pieter Wuille’s brilliant hack to deploy it as a soft fork. But despite being brilliant, the soft fork Segregated Witness is still a hack. A hack is dirty. Such a technology would be better implemented as hard fork.”
mircea_popescu: or as a bullet between the eyes. either way.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: remember when Garzik was all "Lets build a decentralized exchange for ASICMINER"
thestringpuller: i need to find that article you wrote
BingoBoingo: NINE TIMES A LOL: "We don't matter. What matters is begging the cartel of miners to adopt a change the community overwhelmingly wants."
assbot: thouliha comments on Without official statement from miners and others, one should treat all reports of Classic losing support as subterfuge. ... ( )
BingoBoingo: This is becoming meme
BingoBoingo: They can't even beg for bits-coin anymore so they gotta beg for a bits-coin they might eventually have
mircea_popescu: i gotta say the lulz delivery is satisfactory.
BingoBoingo: Shit's popping up everywhere now. USG phillipino delivery for ClassicCoin must have finally arrived a week late
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125300 @ 0.00055869 = 70.0039 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: << so i had the entire tree (all current patches in pressed out through alf's latest two. then i made the changes.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:33; mircea_popescu: what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ?
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( )
mod6: has the following:
mod6: diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp
mod6: --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b
mod6: +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0
mod6: and mine:
mod6: diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp
mod6: --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0
mod6: +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp cbfb2d8c9a5b1d1c16a66291bcb1f9c7e185b02c7a07f023e1256ce52531f4fc6145fdcdb334e96caa5d31e8ce7aa6fa7aa24e59abd3e8899b17afa2054bc7cd
mod6: so that should have been ok.
mod6: not sure what happened there. maybe your local branch doesn't have alf's latest 2?
mod6: anyway, jsut checking because I got asked about this separately.
thestringpuller: ERROR: AcceptBlock() : out of disk space
thestringpuller: ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
thestringpuller: ^-- then cleanly shuts down
thestringpuller: TRB gives me hope
punkman: that's not what it gives
mircea_popescu: mod6 ah makes sense, i was working off the prev release, which is actually incorrect.
mod6: ah, ok c-ya
mod6: thx
mod6: <+punkman> that's not what it gives << eh?
punkman: "99% crapolade by weight" does not give hope. The work of the foundation is of course commendable and there is hope there.
mod6: oooh
mod6: ok
punkman: thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT. << /me is waiting for Ada master in need of apprentice
mod6: thought you were talkin about those vpatches
thestringpuller: punkman: i'll rephrase "The Foundation gives me hope" :P
mircea_popescu: well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ?
mircea_popescu: epic, ascii will get his book in standard newspaper format.
assbot: The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. : Buttcoin ... ( )
assbot: shrinknut comments on The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Yves here. Get a cup of coffee. This is a deep dive into how Bitcoin works from a payment systems perspective, and why the failure of promoters and journalists to look at it in those terms has led them to greatly overestimate its significance." << "come hear my very novel take on why bitcoin is not disruptive because it doesn't do the buzzword i think i understand and for this reason matters more than everything else!"
mircea_popescu: da fuck is "nakedcapitalism" anyway. the pompousness of these two-guys-and-their-hopes, 200 bucks in the bank ventures is nothing short of exactly what you'd expect.
mircea_popescu: “Bitcoin the currency is going nowhere. There is nothing behind it, and if it was big the governments would stop it,” said Dimon. <<< :))
mircea_popescu: check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department.
assbot: John Ratcliff's Code Suppository: The Lightning Network Reality Check ... ( )
mod6: ;;tslb
danielpbarron: so am I the only one that hates 'tab' and prefers spaces when coding?
gribble: Time since last block: 21 minutes and 4 seconds
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron why would you prefer spaces ?
danielpbarron: because then the code will always look the same no matter who views it
mircea_popescu: why is that a good thing ?
mircea_popescu: how the code LOOKS and what the code SAYS are drastically different matters. the code should say the same to everyone, but looks are unimportant. this is the same age old fundamental distinction between alphabet and literacy and symbolism and "creativity".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00055843 = 35.1252 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: the problem is that when you go from |\techo\s"hello\sworld!";| to |\s\s\s\secho\s"hello\sworld!";| you really went from
mircea_popescu: |(line_indenter)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";| to |(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";|
mircea_popescu: this is a significant loss to everyone doing things that depend on the difference between one item and the other.
danielpbarron: I also prefer the '{' on a newline vs on same line as function name. But I haven't done nearly as much coding as those of you who hate these conventions so what do I know
mircea_popescu: the reason the newline { is hated is because it eats a line. people generally want to cram stuff in their screens.
danielpbarron: so why not put the whole proggy on one line
danielpbarron: back when i wrote my own html generator I had it spit everything out as one line
mircea_popescu: note that there's a great tendency to condense lines by "meaning". which is what alf's proposal to stick a && in that double if clause comes to.
adlai: you want to optimize screenful-legibility... this is a convex space, but far from linear
mircea_popescu: "i want every one thing to be in a single place" is a deep driver of meta-programming.
danielpbarron: seems to me it's easier to read when you can see the '{' and '}' line up
adlai: s/-/X/ ie, product
adlai: mircea_popescu: is MPEx still looking for btc/fiat options market makers?
adlai: if so, where's the price signal?
mircea_popescu: how would i know ?
mircea_popescu: if someone that's respectable, competent and so on wants to do it i might entertain it.
adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon?
mircea_popescu: well, apparently not this year. maybe next.
adlai: ok. i know somebody respectable, competent, and so on, and he isn't willing to give money to people he hasn't met in person.
mircea_popescu: is whatever "he" that is in my wot ?
adlai: you're not in his.
mircea_popescu: mno, this is not how it works.
mircea_popescu: he goes to six months log reading etc.
adlai: or he finds somebody who's done it, because ain't nobody got time for this. s/nobody/$0 that Matters/
mircea_popescu: aaaand to make the matter quite plain, i've had it just about up to here witgh idiot jews who think they're exceptional. they aren't, the accomodation is 0, they;d better be fucking humble as if they're begging to avoid gang ass rape.
mircea_popescu: mostly because they are.
mircea_popescu: ok, this conversation is over.
adlai enjoyed it, thank you for your time.
mircea_popescu: i will, for the record, NEVER entertain anyone you propose for anything.
adlai: lol kay
adlai wonders whether he should re-rate mircea_popescu with the thing about "text, signed or otherwise"
mircea_popescu: fancy what we're discussing in 2016, "oh hey, 2012 never happened, let's pretend that we matter and there's no deathstar in orbit". derp.
adlai doesn't recall saying that he himself, that is, adlai_chandrasekhar, wants to meet mircea_popescu or market make options
adlai: people do sometimes meet people outside of the internet!
mircea_popescu: there's exactly zero leeway. noobs are noobs, and start at the noob place. whatever they may think of themselves. and the more they delay, the less they'll get for it. again irrespective of what they may think it's worth.
asciilifeform: << THIS IS what my 'o' command was for!11111
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:34:22; mod6: has the following:
mircea_popescu: there's a very ample history of idiots thinking they may bypass this, starting with bitcoinica. i welcome more victims, gladly.
asciilifeform: mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ?
asciilifeform: << yes! and you can almost ~define~ 'sane system' this way. with the caveat that it can't be a non-orthogonal fudge like a program consisting of one line 'start_bitcoind()' nor anything in that spirit. ORTHOGONAL operators.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:43:57; mircea_popescu: well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm ?
asciilifeform: os+language such that a usable and correct bitcoin client is 10kB of src.
danielpbarron was a victim of bitcoinica :<
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ? << no
asciilifeform: mod6: but now you perhaps see why i did ?
asciilifeform: it is to answer 'wtf did this come from' questions, as a class.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i have no complaint with the absence.
mod6: eh. kinda sorta, i gotta re-read that part when i get a chance. but i think that you think it's useful :]
mod6: i can see about adding it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, that. myeah. that'd be nice.
mircea_popescu: i think we might be a few iterations away from it yet tho
asciilifeform: << i could try feigning stupidity and becoming sturmbannführer of something, but i don't think it works like that - you can't turn into a hapsburg emperor by elongating your nose, last i heard
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:56:07; mircea_popescu: check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department.
mircea_popescu: he's equally convinced that "if it exists, is cuz god willed it, and should it go away, it will be through god's will"
asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: yeh but i don't think that group of nuts would like you, or you them. meanwhile the usgod crowd... prolly. maybe. who knows.
asciilifeform: actually very similar
asciilifeform: really not all that different in outlook, behaviour, thought pattern.
mircea_popescu: well, it is pretty obnoxiously identical to my view, yeah.
mircea_popescu: !up jixei_
shinohai: !rate Cristina -1 Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: you're not angry at the chick for not putting out are you ?
mod6: "Enjoy your shit bags." is how google just translated it. HAHA
shinohai: She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams.
shinohai: !v assbot:shinohai.rate.Cristina.-1:40c3c4340ad9d24dce23bbbdda229940e2fc9afe2e5b305e71cee5823a45b431
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for Cristina from 1 to -1 with note: Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas.
adlai sees nothing wrong with selling properly-labelled shitbags
adlai: "caution: may contain peanuts, gluten, and glucose" is much better than "100% asbestos-phree!!!!'
adlai: shinohai: care to say which and how much? this is financial data relevant to shitcoin-asseteers
shinohai: I'll have her send you an email.
adlai: mno
adlai gets enough altcoin spam by merely logging into reddit
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams. << Which shitcoin?
BingoBoingo: It's useful to know which shitcoin it was this round and the record a running tab of what i++ next shitcoins are
adlai: asciilifeform: care to translate better than google can?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:21:32; asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
BingoBoingo: Why not google that string to see if there are already human translations. Or just swim across the Micheal Jordan river and ask someone a little browner than yourself?
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( )
adlai dons gascuba mask and swims to the "don't be evil" bank
adlai still doesn't understand why asciilifeform quoted that
BingoBoingo: Maybe your ergot friend can reveal the truth in a spiritual experience?
asciilifeform: adlai: 'will of allah' thread
assbot: The Departed - Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself. - YouTube ... ( )
adlai: !s will of allah
assbot: 4 results for 'will of allah' :
assbot: Logged on 14-11-2014 21:29:47; asciilifeform: the idea in the article can (and has) been rephrased like this. if you remove all the 'suggestively-named strings' like 'understand' - and replace with 'gensyms' - e.g., 100324 - does the resulting machine still do or even appear to do anything of interest?
asciilifeform: adlai: that was from the thread concerning famous article 'artificial intelligence and natural stupidity'
assbot: Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( )
BingoBoingo: From the mines, Micheal Jordan edition: "MJ used to tell Johnny that “Tiger Woods is an idiot. I tried to help him, but the kid’s gonna get caught.” (we all know how that turned out). In order for a girl to get to MJ, she needed to go through 4 undercover former narcotics detectives just to speak to Michael. She had to be approved by all 4 to make sure she wasn’t gonna say a damn word about MJ to anyone. So there’s MJ, n
BingoBoingo: ot the greatest character guy, but he sure was pretty smart."
adlai: (latter is google cache's htmlized pdf)
adlai would at least prefer a "tries hard but mostly fails", but will settle for "either retarted or usg" because it's 'nearly a laugh'
assbot: Consensus Round Table — Medium ... ( )
shinohai: "the Bock Size Increase"
asciilifeform: brock size.
punkman: large bocks are a good thing
BingoBoingo: Large brocks are bad for the children
shinohai: kazing
deedbot-: accepted: 1
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:55:24; assbot: Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: WHEN: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 9:00 am-5:00 pm << lol two day lead-in ? desperation is dripping off.
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. -
mircea_popescu: to quote, "name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit."
asciilifeform: << dun wanna make pete_dushenski cry, but this is a ~terrible~ summary, if i were whacked over the head and forgot about my patches, and had to re-learn them from that article, i'd have nfi what they were and why.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 23:26:12; deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. -
asciilifeform: (no discussion of how and why we ended up with static build, omitting the whole pogo thing, astonishingly foggy description of what orphans/bastards were and WHY they had to go, i could go on, and on)
mircea_popescu: not very good homework huh.
asciilifeform: dreadful.
asciilifeform: sadly i can find no other word.
asciilifeform: 'Unsigned integers differ from signed integers in that the latter include both positive and negative integers whereas the former include only positive integers.' << this is wrong in at least two places
mircea_popescu: the sign bit is the difference.
mircea_popescu: !up circ-user-AYc7q
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Any news on the Blizard front?
mircea_popescu: Dec 22 17:01:42 <mircea_popescu>in other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914.
mircea_popescu: so i'm guessing... another 2-3 weeks for full sync, making a trb full sync take just about two months on a reasonable box.
mircea_popescu: if only we had larger blocks.
mircea_popescu: (actually, if only we had correctly implemented, ie multithreaded and non-io-idiotic, block verifier)
BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc.
mircea_popescu: well... i would say 50^ of these two months are roughly due to the last year or so. so basically we'll be seeing +1 month / year indefinitely, as blocks can't get any fuller.
mircea_popescu: by which math, quoite, 6 in 2020, 12 in 2026, two years by 2038 (when something or the other will be fixed in boost, apud satoshi)
BingoBoingo: At least this gives a reasonable target of 2020-2026 for less shitty block verifier
mircea_popescu: hopefully.
pete_dushenski: i literally spent the last 3 hours in channel, typing away, wondering why assbot wasn't picking up my links, totally unawares that i hadn't voiced myself. that's some kind of new low.
pete_dushenski: hurr durr is me
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It appears you failed the development history portion of your comprehensive exam. Must retake.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes you'll be pleased to find your trb history prominently linked in part ii :)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: or maybe ben will be choked that i only mentioned him on the shitty part of the history thus far, who knows
pete_dushenski: anyways, small updates made as per asciilifeform's several suggestions
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:48:28; BingoBoingo: << 7!
assbot: DJ KHALED, AKON & TI "We Takin' Over" - YouTube ... ( )
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code.
BingoBoingo: But props to pete_dushenski for trying to write for the comprehensive exam at this time.
pete_dushenski: i did read come, while some of it made sense, much was chinese. but having gone through the process undoubtedly gave me the tools needed to launch my own public node. so there's that.
pete_dushenski: s/come/some (code)
pete_dushenski: s/having gone/going
pete_dushenski: i must need a drink
pete_dushenski: << pretty sure 99% of the internet is "smart like bill". lotta good it does them.
assbot: Pieter Wuille: "Opt-in RBF is not theft. It's indicating that you're not sure whether what you're submitting is the final form of the transaction" WTF ?!? : btc ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: point taken. will add 'portatronic'.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: also recall the glibc agonies
asciilifeform: these were the stimulus for the whole dns thermonuke thing
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> Dec 22 17:01:42 <mircea_popescu>Iin other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914. << almost there!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if only we had larger blocks. << srsly right?
mod6: pete_dushenski: if I may be so bold, Sir: Some helpful info you may find in the monthly statements from the foundation.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code. << word.
asciilifeform: incidentally pete_dushenski doesn't have to write a history if he doesn't feel like it
asciilifeform: but if he does, it ought to chip away at rather than add to the confusion, imho.
BingoBoingo merely offering these comments so that at some point in the future members of our cult may be able to unironically honor each other with the title Doktor
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for taking the time to search through the code today and write it up.
mircea_popescu: "I still haven't found anyone that is asking for RBF." << pretty muchg the definitive word on that derpage.
asciilifeform: wtf is rbf ?
asciilifeform: royal bank of fucktard ?
mircea_popescu: there is exactly 0 demang for all the crap these dudes keep trying to paint as "innovation".
mircea_popescu: i understand that they have no option, being unable to do anything and ambitious enough to want to be seen doing things. nevertheless.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> wtf is rbf ? << Yet another weirdo script for double spending unconfirmed transactions with a higher fee. Only pheature is being more polite than just doing it as has always been possible
mircea_popescu: mod6 it wasn't that bad. but there's 1-200 man-hours in there easy going through all those cases and justifying them. not to mention that the ones that will need rewriting most llikely amount to two or three total rewrites of the codebase anyway.
mircea_popescu: but such are the father's pistols. if only he were less of a drunk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rbf aka "replace by fee" is a nutty idea of peter todd that got a sour treatment hre a whole ago, but for incomprfehensible reasons, let's say, managed to obtain wuile's support.
pete_dushenski: mod6: i actually found the monthly really very helpful, and i'm sure that i'll continue to find them of value. they're essential resources for shallowing out the steep learning curve :)
pete_dushenski: *monthly reports
mircea_popescu: or otherwise we could say the reasons are thoroughly comprehensible as they are reprehensible and just hang the lot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wouldn't it already be a thing if we had the fee-based mempool sorter ?
mircea_popescu: in a sense. not really.
asciilifeform: i.e. one could displace an unconfirmed tx of fee f by broadcasting doublespend where fee > f, at least with a certain nonzero probability
mircea_popescu: the way this works is that i can say "take this and pay bob and keep a cent" and then later come and say "take this and pay alice instead and keep two cents", making the later guaranteed to overtake the former.
mod6: 602 instances of numeric wizardy, yup. lot to track down there. but, thanks again. it needed doing.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in a sane mempool scheme, a 2 cent payment does not guaranteedly remove a 1 cent one from the mempool.
mircea_popescu: maybe the cutoff is at a tenth of a cent ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i can definitely say that the trb history is adding to ~my~ confusion, but i don't see that as something to be avoided. my hope is that i'll eventually make enough sense of this to relay it concisely to others. still much work to do, no doubt.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how did his scheme ~guarantee~ ?
asciilifeform: seems to me that a miner can stuff any valid tx into a block
mircea_popescu: yeah, there is that.
mircea_popescu: but you know, the miners will implement whatever pr-derps tell them to!111
mircea_popescu: because "important personalities and leaders of bitcoin" and whatnot.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i must agree with BingoBoingo: sadly, reading the actual code is not optional
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: observe that even mircea_popescu has put on the apocalyptic gas mask and reads.
asciilifeform: the ultimate authority on what the crock of shit actually does is the selfsame crock of shit.
mircea_popescu: lol wut is this!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i read the patches, though admittedly little code. i'm probably not even competent enough to need gas mask though, so no worries. amor fati.
asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.
asciilifeform: я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that chick looks like she is eating a lemon or what
mircea_popescu: well... she is.
mircea_popescu: (lemon = old fag)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Much to be said for the learning value of patch by hand in addition to doing V-presses
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:07:22; adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon?
mircea_popescu: soo... apparently most of medium's visitors are from... india. and brazil.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: true enough. relatedly, 'tevye' is now running like a champ, keeping up with even asciilifeform's s00perbalticn0de. the difference ? aws banhammer.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: quite possibly awshammer is obsolete
pete_dushenski: possibly or not possibly, it's the only thing i changed between yesterday and today. and the lag is gone.
pete_dushenski to dinner, appreciates all input this eve.
asciilifeform: malleus has same effect but more surgically precise.
mod6: i conducted a second live-fire test today with the changes submitted by mircea_popescu & asciilifeform, here are the results:
asciilifeform: mod6: neato
mircea_popescu: mod6 seems all good ?
mod6: Everything looks ok to me. When not specifying a highs or lows flag, txn went through just fine no malleation. When '-lows' flag was passed, txn went through just fine, no malleation. WHen the '-highs' flag was passed, txns were malleated, as expected.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, and unrelatedly to the "magic numbers" avenue of trb improvement : one obvious anbd cheap hardening for trb would be to allow the user control of entropy source.
mircea_popescu: it is plainly inconceivable anyone uses a wallet for payments and doesn't do this.
mircea_popescu: yet from what i know 99% actually do just that.
mod6: So yep, pretty much same results as yesterday, althought it is noteable that not passing any flag at all ; no txns were dropped on the floor. They wern't malleated yesterdayr either, so it could have just been lots of spam yesterday or something similar.
mod6: But noteable.
mircea_popescu: this includes most "bitcoin businesses" in fiat.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this means zapping openssl, realize.
asciilifeform: is the only reason i didn't do it.
mircea_popescu: i realise.
mircea_popescu: well... we also have to eval the new scp251 or w/e package.
mircea_popescu: mod6 spam is roughly 2x what it was yest. only 6.4k or so txn, vs 9k yest, however 65+mb worth
mod6: ok interesting.
mircea_popescu: oldest txn still from the 18th.
mircea_popescu: now of course, what exactly is the mempool as far as each node is concerned varies, and the miner's nodes especially. so it's an iffy thing. anyway.
mod6: re: entropy topic, perhaps ya, we can do something like this when we have a crypto lib 'eh?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i don't think we can not read the wtf is that thing called
mircea_popescu: libsecp256k1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i found the prb ecdsa thing quite distasteful
mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?
asciilifeform: not because it was written by hitler, but because the thing is 50x the mass it needs to be.
asciilifeform: as demonstrated by the nano-ecc folks
mod6: hm
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 22:12:24; asciilifeform: IF I CAN'T READ IT IN AN EVENING it is a turd
mircea_popescu: it's widely deployed.
mircea_popescu: it'll have to be read.
asciilifeform: l0l aha.
asciilifeform: like openssl.
mircea_popescu: " Bitcoin is described by enthusiasts as potentially being bigger than the Internet itself (a claim I can’t seem to understand, considering that Bitcoin is an Internet-powered technology),"
mircea_popescu: what is wrong with these idiots.
asciilifeform: btw does mircea_popescu intend to read the winblowz nt source too ?
asciilifeform: widely deployed !1111
mircea_popescu: if i were in that business.
assbot: U.S. Military Now In Control of Syrian Air Base | Defensionem ... ( )
assbot: The Rise and Fall of the Argentine Air Force | Defensionem ... ( )
mats: why nobody is talking about how usg is actively violating .sy sovereignty, idk
asciilifeform: no mention of kurt tank in the ^ oddly
mats: int'l law: for other people that are not usg.
asciilifeform: mats: usg does not believe in the sovereignty of any other crown anywhere
asciilifeform: this is not a mega-seekrit
mats: yes
assbot: 苏联歌曲《田野上坦克轰鸣》"На поле танки грохотали" - 中文版 - YouTube ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ perhaps only funny to phf and i.
asciilifeform: lulzy comments
asciilifeform: e.g., 'brothers, we will take washington together, you'll see'
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu << lulfest
assbot: dpaste: 0SRXEVV: Terrill v. Gawker ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Moar energy lulz
deedbot-: [Qntra] Concerns About United States Coal Industry Intensify -
BingoBoingo: post updated. Forgot to close it with "Sorry for your loss"
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 405.87, vol: 8766.54447752 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.332, vol: 8124.70728 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.69, vol: 27213.50172144 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 395.0, vol: 4.64326783 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.16152, vol: 79649.22250000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 407.44999, vol: 777.80560536 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 415.494947755, vol: 110.20573996 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 409.260062078
adlai: trinque: deedbot- constipated again?
mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound
trinque: adlai: its behind was behind when I checked a few minutes ago
trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd
trinque shakes his head
trinque: adlai: deed should crap when it catches up; if it doesn't I'll be back later to kick it some more
thestringpuller: btcd the go thing?
thestringpuller: didn't conformal stop supporting btcd?
trinque: that would not surprise me
adlai: trinque: thank you for checking
trinque: yw. bbl
thestringpuller: trinque: y u no use trb?
adlai recommends people read the last submission... rediscovered it while browsing a bathroom bookshelf
adlai: for the classically-challenged lurkers: it's the last chapter of The Once and Future King, by T. H. White
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, the whole shebang's not worth 10mn.
mircea_popescu: whether that may mean gawker or tinder.
mircea_popescu: <mats> int'l law: for other people that are not usg. << it's widely reported in ru and chinese. "everyone"
mircea_popescu: the arabs also aren't all that keen.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:01:27; mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound
asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: does anyone want CPU: 2 x Intel E5645 6x2x2.4GHz; RAM: 96GB; 8x180GB SSD for any purpose ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: what, for free?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: believe or not, i once wrote to the various folks claiming to have the 6216
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel no, for money o.O
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: back in... '09
asciilifeform: got a reply, even
asciilifeform: one antiquarian type offered it, for 400 or so
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:38:10; mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: do continue.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the story ends there.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the thing i wanted to do would've required several, and i lacked the dough at the time.
asciilifeform: plus the possibility of scam
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: How many, exactly?
asciilifeform: at least 8.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it should be possible to test them before purchase, right?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: how on earth do you propose to do THAT ?
ben_vulpes: << dunno about this. laborious for certain, and would make the whole thing 10x more likely to 'fit in head'.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wtf?
asciilifeform: how does altering whitespace do anything for fit-in-head.
asciilifeform: GET A SANE EDITOR folks
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: to vendor: "if this is the real deal it should be able to run this program [include ascii file here], if it fries, I'm not buying it."
BingoBoingo: whitespace is all about fits in eyes, not head
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you do understand that these parts don't socket, right ?
gabriel_laddel: "send me photos of output"
ben_vulpes: consistency of code shape is a thing for mortals like myself
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I do not.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so how do I run a program on one of these things without a socket connection?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you mount it to a board
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: and what, load in a binary?
gabriel_laddel: can I unmount it afterwards without breaking it?
asciilifeform: and no.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Isn't the whole purpose of an FPGA that I can program it in place?
asciilifeform: incidentally there ~was~ once a socket for these (pga299)
ben_vulpes: << and how do you feel about mixed carriage returns and crlfs?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:56:38; mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes meh. they're equally stupid, but shouldn't get in the way of anything.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: fpga is pretty much never mounted in a socket (the low end xilinx cpld, e.g., 95xx series, do come in plcc - but high pin count makes this a bitch)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: btw why do you prefer tabs to 4 spaces?
mircea_popescu: it's in the log!
mod6: mircea_popescu: qq, would you be alright with this error message, as opposed to yours which has a line number in it: printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed in key.h:Sign()");
mircea_popescu: mod6 sure.
mod6 is a bit worried that we may have to additionally maintain possible changing line numbers.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the other thing is that my understanding is that the 6216 was never produced in serious quantity
mircea_popescu: it's too soon for that, i guess.
mod6: ok cool. I think an error like that narrows it down pretty good.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: surely we can turn up eight of them.
mircea_popescu: (you have to understand - in principle, the extra maintenance is a mark of both fit in headness and "we really read these patches")
mircea_popescu: so it's not a bad thing. but maybe not its time yet.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it isn't like they're being used for something useful anywhere else.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you can turn up as many as you like and mount'em yourself.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya, not a bad thing at all. but yeah, maybe eventually we move to that once the source "cools down" so to speak.
mircea_popescu shudders at the simple count of how many return fail; there are that don't say anything else.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: To be clear, the part # for this is: XC6216-2HQ240C?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there were at least four package variants.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's after the legendary 'dragonfly' fpga.
mircea_popescu: i was listening to see what's that all about.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you ever design a pcb of whatever kind ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: got any phriendz who have ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: make some.
asciilifeform was not always a burned out old man, was once an eager sort of kid, like gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform even bought first fpga as a schoolboy without understanding that it will have to be mounted somewhere. still have it.
asciilifeform: wasn't up to making a pqfp144 0.5mm pitch pad for it in the kitchen.
BingoBoingo: ;;nethash
gribble: 804048104.027
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 394385 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: fbkkgzngvxgmhx5ddcmc.jpg (800x285 pixels) ... ( )
mod6: ok i see what my hangup is.
mod6: so when i use Mr. P.'s pat:
mod6: it pretty much applies the same, and if then I do a vdiff of a/bitcoin/src/key.h to b/bitcoin/src/key.h (where Mr. P.'s patch was applied in b/.../) then the diff looks the same.
mod6: only problem here is, it adds in spaces instead of tabs
mod6: so then if I go line by line adding tabs instead of the spaces, i get a bit of a different vdiff output as such:
mircea_popescu: mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/
jurov: mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__
BingoBoingo: NSFL, what C++ feels like
assbot: Diabetes - Infection, Osteomyelitis, Gangrene ... ( )
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__ << sounds good to me, can you give me a full example so I don't screw this up, ive never used tat before.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/ << lemme try with this. thx.
jurov: the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it
jurov: maybe __FILE__ gives full path, i don't remember, then it's not very desirable
mircea_popescu: it's just compiler directivation.
mircea_popescu: well, preprocessor technically.
mircea_popescu: simply gets replaced wit hthe right numbers pre compile time
jurov: but __LINE__ should be used in any case, and # causes it to be treated as string
mod6: hmm. same thing.
mod6: oh boy this is obnoxious.
mod6: maybe i need to go line by line and do it all by hand.
jurov: if you go ahead with tabs, do you want lxr to ignore whitespace changes in diffs?
mod6: <+jurov> the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it << would this work? : printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed at #__LINE__ in #__FILE__\n");
jurov: for me it was amusing to see the amount of bile spent on that
jurov: mod6 yes that should work
mod6: ima leave that out for now.
jurov: mod6 ^ that was answer to my lxr q?
mod6: ah, now. im gonna leave the #__LINE__ #__FILE__ thing out.
mod6: *no
mod6: *sigh*
mod6: i gotta figure out how to get this patch exactly correct. can't seem to do it.
jurov: what are you doing?
jurov: if your're applying s/ /\t/ straight to the diff, that won't work, the format does require space after + or -
mod6: no not straight to the diff.
mod6: post application
mod6: basically, im trying to get my +/- to look like mr. p.'s. but i can't seem to achieve that.
mod6: after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces.
mod6: and when I replace :293,331 s/ /\t/ it basically ends up looking like this:
mod6: who knew that creating the patch would be harder than the code itself.
jurov: yes this is the wrong approach, you ended up with +\t there
jurov: why can't you replace with tabs *before* running diff?
mod6: huh, dunno, guess i could try that.
jurov: also, looks like you replaced only first " " in line anyway
jurov: s/ /\t/g replaces all occurences but best solution is to set vim (or any editor) to use only tabs
jurov: and then :retab
jurov: (or whatever equivalent your editor does)
asciilifeform: ftr i think the whitespace thing is lunacy
asciilifeform: i don't need 200kB diffs.
mod6: <+mod6> huh, dunno, guess i could try that. << failed to patch
asciilifeform: for anything.
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to mechanically retab the genesis and regen ALL OF THE VPATCHES - go ahead
asciilifeform: but this is an astonishing waste of time imho
asciilifeform: while rome burns.
jurov: meh, i'm like... let them have their whitespace/style holy wars, they'll learn someday
jurov: if mod6 learns to set up his editor to emit consistent kind of whitespace, then today was not wasted
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Nero isn't playing his fiddle yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056605 = 21.5393 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.00055795 = 32.3053 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: thestringpuller │ trinque: y u no use trb? << it's in the works.
trinque: looks like that'll happen in about 40k blox
mircea_popescu: <mod6> after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces. << i made a tab'd one, then asciilifeform wanted a different one so i made that too. which are you looking at ?
mircea_popescu: that's the 2nd one ?
mod6: lemme check
mircea_popescu: or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway
mod6: (13:43) <+mircea_popescu> mod6 << in the humble hope that it may serve. << first one
assbot: dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 256700 @ 0.0005584 = 143.3413 BTC [+] {5}
mod6: (13:52) <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform << second one
assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway << im starting to wonder...
ben_vulpes: aha, ms. smith made the log finally!
ben_vulpes waves to yves
mod6: i did a `wget -O mp.first.diff` and the tabs in the + side seem to be preserved.
mod6: but I didn't apply that one, just the second.
mod6: lemme see on that one.
mod6: yah, second one has no tabs at all.
mircea_popescu: heh. so i try to use inept merchant. inept merchant doesn't take bitcoin, but takes a variety of bullshit "payment processors", one of which "payza". i go whatever, they pop up a 0.04blabla btc, which i pay. turns out THEY WON'T PROCESS the payment they advertised until you "verify", ie click on some link in email. so i do. turns out they still won't process the payment they advertised, untill you... fill a form. so i
mircea_popescu: fill a form. turns out they... STILL won't process the payment they advertised, unti... you upload "documents". and they'll send your bitcoin back, of course. ALSO after you upload "documents".
ben_vulpes: heh clever
mircea_popescu: consequently, ikf anyone wants a payza account with 16 bux in it, it's, gangbangA1, and 12345678 "pin" w/e the shit that is.
mircea_popescu: have fun.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, totally so very clever they'll spend thousands of dollars to dig themselves out of this pr hole and wonder why it dun work.
ben_vulpes: clever enough to get in trouble.
mircea_popescu: how this shit usually works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.0005574 = 44.369 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski aha, ty
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski also, considering a jeep cherokee or a toyota land cruiser of 2000 and 89 vintage for babywagon, any thoughts on either?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: goals being low tco, ease of finding parts and cost of maintenance hours.
mircea_popescu: mod6 2nd one is deliberately made to not have tabs so as not to offend alf's diff.
ben_vulpes: << seconded for an in-depth discussion of the static build crapocalypse, and why we even bother with static builds anyways at the very least
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
mircea_popescu: 18<asciilifeform> but this is an astonishing waste of time imho << is it me or is this tack exactly opposite of what you were saying 6 hours ago ?!
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:24; asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~
mircea_popescu: so which is it ?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
mircea_popescu: how would it do that ?
asciilifeform: by having 600KB of crud to read!
ben_vulpes: << aye, to the extent that i 'learned cpp', and to the extent that i can even be said to 'know' any other programming language.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:51:59; asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.
asciilifeform: because it touches every line ?
mircea_popescu: you don't have to read anything. apparently you don't even read the log lines!
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
mircea_popescu: it's absolutely machine-verifiable, you also get some people's signatures, what's the problem.
asciilifeform: so genesis-2 ?
ben_vulpes: 'scouring of spaces' means the tab-replacement?
asciilifeform: why not also get rid of the idiot { on own line thing then.
asciilifeform: and the ( foo )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24918 @ 0.0005574 = 13.8893 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: stop moving the fucking discussion omfg.
asciilifeform: hey the tabs thing only matters because mircea_popescu insists on programming in 'nano'
mircea_popescu: you just said
mircea_popescu: i dun have the energy to chase this. whatevs.
asciilifeform: hey if the man wants to program in 'nano' who am i to say.
asciilifeform: i can only take off my hat...
asciilifeform: anyway, who wants to regenesis, go.
mircea_popescu: barrier to coding should properly be "is willing to :retab back and forth forever because idiocy is contagious and we gotta argue all sides of any point".
asciilifeform: i'll sign.
ben_vulpes: 'regenesis' << actually start over?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nah, see above
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one day your "idiocy is contagious and fixing it a collosal waste of time and i've changed my mind and wah wah" thing'll land you in the soup.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you did not understand what i meant when said 'contagious'
mircea_popescu: apparently.
asciilifeform: specifically that i saw leaving the formatting alone as a forced thing.
mircea_popescu: is the formatting as is idiocy or is it not idiocy.
asciilifeform: sure is
asciilifeform: but it ranked dead last on my list of what must be fixed.
mircea_popescu: then i fail to understand what objection you have.
mircea_popescu: this is not what you said, neither at the first juncture, nor at the 2nd juncture.
ben_vulpes: << this is my fault and i am terribly sorry
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:06:34; trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd
asciilifeform: trb has papercut on one arm, gangrene in the other.
mircea_popescu: but anyway. off to cinephile.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
BingoBoingo: Sounds like other arm could use papercut too, but cranked up to 11
asciilifeform: but if you want to auto-munge the whole thing, why not
trinque: ben_vulpes: whatwhatwhat ?
ben_vulpes: i set you on the btcd snipe hunt aeons ago iirc
mod6: so this is what i'm gonna do
mod6: im gonna add the code to key.h by hand.
mod6: then im gonna add tabs infront of all the non-empty lines in Sign()
mod6: and we'll go from there.
trinque: ben_vulpes: now it's stuck on a block 1-2 back, because reasons
trinque: ah nah it finally went
trinque: and so shall I, gnite #b-a
mod6: if you do a pull of that patch (be sure to obviously run dos2unix on it to get rid of CRLF), you should see that all of the lines in key.h:Sign() have tabs in front of them.
mod6: i guess we can pick this up tomorrow, or whenever.
mod6: i apprecaite you all trying to help me.
ben_vulpes: hey mod6
ben_vulpes: i may simply be exhausted, but i don't see immediately how the code inside the two branches is supposed to work
mod6: ok.
mod6: so, by example
mod6: let's do fLowS first.
ben_vulpes: i get the conditional branching on the flag, but now how the identical code in the branches enforces high/low-s-ness
ben_vulpes: okay, fLowS it is.
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this line: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already low.
mod6: next example
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) evaluates to 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: then we do this line:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s is assigned to 10000 - 60000 ; sig->s now = 40000
mod6: bah
mod6: *100000
mod6: you follow?
ben_vulpes still reading
mod6: i'll note the code is not *identical* it does have different greater than, less than signs.
ben_vulpes: forgive further derpitude, but how on earth does `BN_CTX_get(ctx)` return two different values?
mod6: ima point you at this for right now, and we can discuss all of that later perhaps:
assbot: bn_ctx_get(3): use temporary BIGNUM variables - Linux man page ... ( )
assbot: bn_ctx_new(3): allocate/free BN_CTX structures - Linux man page ... ( )
mod6: etc, there are man pages for each.
ben_vulpes: roger.
ben_vulpes: will read more.
mod6: ok, so did the first and second case for fLowS make sense then?
ben_vulpes: ah i see
ben_vulpes: need to read more. let's revisit tomorrow.
mod6: ok
mod6: i'll type this out anyway.
mod6: so now on to fHighS
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already high
mod6: next example
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: then we jump into the if block and execu:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: again [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s = 100000 - 40000.
mod6: sig->s == 60000 (or "high")
mod6: volla
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