Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-12-19 | 2015-12-21 → ↓
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 22:34:54; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform an ast is generated SOMEHOW.
ben_vulpes: evening, gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: "here what comes?"
gabriel_laddel: "understanding."
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: hihi
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: how is the family, work, life?
ben_vulpes: alive, in gear, and enjoyable thank you
ben_vulpes: how grows masamune?
ben_vulpes: (and your other work)
gabriel_laddel: Heh. Having the first mirror machine and the prospect of automating the install process within arm's reach is a strong motivation to... job hunt.
assbot: Board Seat Appointments - General - Bitcoin Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSfK2G )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00049568 = 9.0214 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63400 @ 0.00049999 = 31.6994 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74821 @ 0.00049064 = 36.7102 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: whatever did happen to bitcointa.lk
BingoBoingo: no idea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36231 @ 0.00049744 = 18.0227 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51701 @ 0.0004976 = 25.7264 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: to 62.210.90.95 ... why the fuck are you downloading the logs bundle over and over ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67100 @ 0.00048993 = 32.8743 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2014#937160 << fix your script; i.e. download only bundles you've never seen, or don't you know how crypto sigs work
assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 17:59:12; Anduck: ip 62.210.90.95
trinque: how bout that, #b-a l0gz DNS
BingoBoingo: !up Anduck
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46938 @ 0.00049814 = 23.3817 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: Anduck: a gentleman might consider funding the bot's address after using a terabyte of bandwidth
trinque: !gettrust Anduck
assbot: Trust relationship from user trinque to user Anduck: Level 1: -3, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=trinque&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/
trinque: how bout that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45585 @ 0.00049596 = 22.6083 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Hitler really did have only one testicle, German researcher claims | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/22hEyXu )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00049447 = 16.7625 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70650 @ 0.00050312 = 35.5454 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73262 @ 0.00050315 = 36.8618 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37650 @ 0.00048812 = 18.3777 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60734 @ 0.00049568 = 30.1046 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29128 @ 0.0004904 = 14.2844 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100337 @ 0.00048639 = 48.8029 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> it is the prehistoric clay pipes which are the problem << clay pipes are best pipes. really.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> whatever did happen to bitcointa.lk << the guy had a good idea back when a few people still thought tardstalk might possibily matter. that was... well over a year ago.
mircea_popescu: trinque> to 62.210.90.95 ... why the fuck are you downloading the logs bundle over and over ? << try an' guess.
mircea_popescu: 100%[======================================>] 11,536,384 3.06M/s in 3.6s
mircea_popescu: man i like the smell of new hardware.
mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.
mircea_popescu: apparently that's ok now, because reasons.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46500 @ 0.00049165 = 22.8617 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box?
assbot: Newly discovered hack has U.S. fearing foreign infiltration - CNNPolitics.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiWBqX )
assbot: Coleco Developing New Cartridge-Based Video Game Console ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiX3W0 )
punkman: ah they have an indiegogo
punkman: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs so coleco plans to somehow rebrand this thing that flopped
assbot: RETRO VGS | Indiegogo ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEYJVj )
liquidassets: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1347566 <If I'd of die tonight I'd of die a little happier
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 19:34:16; pete_dushenski: ima contravexbash this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88984 @ 0.00048897 = 43.5105 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82537 @ 0.00049601 = 40.9392 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72900 @ 0.00049604 = 36.1613 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: Vuvuzela’s design assumes an adversary that
jurov: controls all but one of the Vuvuzela servers (users need not
jurov: know which one), controls an arbitrary number of clients, and
jurov: can monitor, block, delay, or inject tra
jurov: ffi
jurov: c on any network
jurov: link. Two users communicating through Vuvuzela should
jurov: have their communication protected if their two clients, and
jurov: any one server, are uncompromised.
jurov: " << MIT got inspired
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113800 @ 0.00049703 = 56.562 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00048923 = 34.6375 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105803 @ 0.00049636 = 52.5164 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7251 @ 0.00050154 = 3.6367 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348386 << ahahaha right. let me know when you've seen geysers of shit spewing from your bathtub on account of tree roots penetrating your clay pipes
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 11:51:26; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> it is the prehistoric clay pipes which are the problem << clay pipes are best pipes. really.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:08:09; mircea_popescu: 100%[======================================>] 11,536,384 3.06M/s in 3.6s
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348394 << why does mircea_popescu keep buying boxes in nato ?
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:29:21; mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348398 << 'The breach is believed to be the work of a foreign government, U.S. officials said, because of the sophistication involved. The U.S. officials said they are certain U.S. spy agencies themselves aren't behind the back door. China and Russia are among the top suspected governments...' << mega-l0l
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348397 << nah that thing is still up (though at the moment the only thing properly built there is a trb node)
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:42:13; punkman: mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box?
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 00:17:11; asciilifeform: incidentally, gentlemen, please welcome (back) dulap! 46.166.165.30:8333 (nosuchlabs.com), a trb node running bleedingedge-asciilifeform+rotor(musl)
thestringpuller: ;;market sell --fiat 6000000000
gribble: Bitfinex | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would sell 328927.03 bitcoins for a total of 7885661.1167 USD and take the price to 0. | Data vintage: 0.0046 seconds
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348422 << by now everybody knows the usg academitard modus operandi
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 15:35:20; jurov: " << MIT got inspired
asciilifeform: would be interesting (for a laugh) to see the actual code, but this is improbable
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348378 << now it remains to be learned whether '...musso, he has none at all'
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 08:51:17; assbot: Hitler really did have only one testicle, German researcher claims | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/22hEyXu )
assbot: davidlazar/vuvuzela · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1US98BO )
asciilifeform: l0l, 'go'
punkman: naturally
asciilifeform: 'Vuvuzela assumes the existence of a PKI in which users can privately learn each others public keys. This implementation uses pki.conf as a placeholder until we integrate a real PKI.' << ahaha
asciilifeform: 'Vuvuzela uses efficient cryptography (NaCl) to hide as much metadata as possible and adds noise to metadata that can't be encrypted efficiently. This approach provides less privacy than encrypting all of the metadata, but it enables Vuvuzela to support millions of users. '
asciilifeform: do i need to actually read this thing
assbot: dedis@yale | Dissent: Accountable Anonymous Group Communication ... ( http://bit.ly/1muKDix )
mod6: So with the post-press hash validator in place, here's some debugging/info output while pressing in verbose mode: http://dpaste.com/2EM6P8S.txt
assbot: Boneh Publications: Riposte: An Anonymous Messaging System Handling Millions of Users ... ( http://bit.ly/1muKJXy )
asciilifeform: !s boneh
assbot: 1 results for 'boneh' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=boneh
mod6: I think this is pretty much what we want. I'll start writing some automated tests for this.
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 02:40:46; asciilifeform: http://www.voltage.com/technology/identity-based-encryption << him
asciilifeform: also gotta love the 'million of anonymous' and 'ddos resistant' claim.
asciilifeform: and the fiddy pounds of maths
asciilifeform: classic usgization
asciilifeform: expect more 'embrace & extend' of gossipd.
asciilifeform: does harvard have one yet ?
asciilifeform: how about rand corp ?
thestringpuller: wassup asciilifeform
thestringpuller: merry xmas bro
asciilifeform: naval academy ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: wasn't that a week from now
assbot: Dissent/DsaPrivateKey.cpp at master · dedis/Dissent · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1muL6S7 )
assbot: Trigger Warning - A Platform for Dissident Thought | Indiegogo ... ( http://bit.ly/1muLcJs )
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:09:24; mod6: So with the post-press hash validator in place, here's some debugging/info output while pressing in verbose mode: http://dpaste.com/2EM6P8S.txt
asciilifeform: mod6: have you tested it with 'false' entries? (files which were newly created)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52204 @ 0.00049287 = 25.7298 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65172 @ 0.00048508 = 31.6136 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: "Instead of abusing the exploit i have decided to help Coinbase fix the exploit by telling them step to step instructions on how to reproduce the bug on hackerone. After they were able to fix the exploit i was rewarded a measly $5,000 bounty, which i thought was unfair and was expecting to get upwards of $25,000. I helped them fix something that could have damaged them in hundreds of
punkman: thousands of dollars, maybe even Millions if the exploit was executed correctly with the right amount of people. Anyway so after i got my bounty and moved on they put some kind of "secret" ban on my account"
punkman: !up pxallin
punkman: good god man, why did you tell them about the second exploit
thestringpuller: hey pxallin. just posted your story here.
asciilifeform: didn't we do a 'responsible disclosure'-is-for-idiots thread ?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 01:24:01; mircea_popescu: "you wanted to benefit from responsible disclosure protections, you should have been in the wot" "but at the time i made that decision it seemed a no brainer, why expend the effort" "right. this is why you die."
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 15:10:28; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188163 << this is why, when dealing with a usg-powered entity, the correct procedure is not 'disclosure', which will be censored and hushed up; but - total annihilation
asciilifeform: this is the kind of bind folks end up in because it is impossible (to a first approximation) to sell 0days.
asciilifeform: now if camel fucker army had brains and used pgp and gave half a shit, one could send 0day to them and have at least the pleasure of knowing that it will be used to deal max damage.
asciilifeform: or north kr, etc.
asciilifeform: but even then impossible:
asciilifeform: they'd get swamped with disinfo
asciilifeform: so it would appear to me that traffic in 0day is impossible without a wot
asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: well traditionally a blackhat would have a group and they would deal max damage themselves.
thestringpuller: I've only heard of OS exploits being "sat on" for long periods of time.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there is not a single such 'group' in planet 3 that isn't either a) usg tendril b) full of stoolies and candidate for gasenwagen
thestringpuller: The risk for crime is the gasenwagen. Raiders have always been ride or die.
asciilifeform: almost meaningless statement.
asciilifeform: and 'risk' is a weasel word when applied to a suicidally-stupid mistake such as associating with bands of idiot wotless children.
thestringpuller: I was talking pre-wot days. But sure, I understand what you are saying.
thestringpuller: Meat-WoT was a thing no?
asciilifeform: but it made локализация провала ( mircea_popescu ! does english even have a word for this basic concept ?) difficult
asciilifeform: roughly 'localization of failure' but is a specific tradecraft term
asciilifeform: but back to subj, meatwots consisting of idiot children tend to get rolled up within a single day
asciilifeform: whenever enemy feels like it.
thestringpuller: "resistance is futile"
asciilifeform: futile for idiot children.
thestringpuller: weakest link is always idiot child.
asciilifeform: associating with idiot child is a choice.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: have you tested it with 'false' entries? (files which were newly created) << this is a good test. it should just do what its supposed to do 'as is' I think? this line will grab the 'b' of the vdiff; my $file_hash = $vp_map{$vp}{$src_file_name}{b};
mod6: and if a new file is introduced the 'a' should be 'false' and the 'b' will be some sha512 hash, and will still be verifyable. correct?
mod6: anyway, yeah, will still test that.
asciilifeform: mod6: test it with my latest patch
asciilifeform: it creates a 'knobs.h'
mod6: ah, good lookin'
mod6: thanks.
mod6: looks like it did what it was supposed to do.
asciilifeform: mod6: very neat
mod6: so the ones that it /does/ skip is when 'b' == 'false' -- where the file was ~removed~ from a given vpatch.
asciilifeform: oughta post this on therealbitcoin.org
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: gotta also make sure that subsequent patches do not try to use a deleted file
mod6: yeah, otherwise `sha512sum` returns "No such file found".
asciilifeform: (a patch that uses a deleted file can be legit so long as it is not on the tree branch that contained the deletion)
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
mod6: hmm.
asciilifeform: the other thing a vtron needs to handle is orphans
asciilifeform: if the toposort is correctly written, mod6's vtron ought to do it
asciilifeform: perhaps orphan is not the word
asciilifeform: but dead branches of the tree, basically
mod6: disconnected graphs?
asciilifeform: nah those are yet another matter
asciilifeform: say we were to have a documentation dir
asciilifeform: that never existed before
asciilifeform: it would end up as an altogether other tree in the graph
mod6: oh, i see, so like if a patch further down the line (in time) remove a file that a specific sub tree relies upon, that those become removed?
asciilifeform: mod6: nope
mod6: <+asciilifeform> it would end up as an altogether other tree in the graph << so said patch to add documentation dir would be its own root?
asciilifeform: it would
asciilifeform: the only necessary change to make working with multiple trees convenient would be 'multi-press' where you specify more than one 'head'
mod6: I guess that makes sense since it wouldn't share any antecedents with the original graph.
mod6: Scenario: Guy creates vpatch that utilizes irc.h (removed in vpatch asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch) must ensure that Guy's patch is on it's own tree?
asciilifeform: it splits off from the node immediately prior to the removal
mod6: i haven't quite figured out what to do about this scenario yet.
asciilifeform: just as if i had cut out a single line of a single file, and a subsequent patch relies on that line.
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
asciilifeform: also if you set your vtron to 'wild' mode you can trivially test various combos
asciilifeform: i did a good bit of this
asciilifeform: the only kind of thing that is 'in own tree' is a patch that has no common ancestor with ~anything~ in the genesis tree
asciilifeform: (ergo, has its own 'genesis' somewhere)
mod6: ok.
mod6: right.
mod6: i thought 'wild' mode is simply when no one in wot has provided a seal corresponding to a given vpatch
asciilifeform: it is handy for testing a vtron
asciilifeform: because you can throw in any patches you like, made for the occasion of the test
asciilifeform: without having to sign them
mod6: oh yeah, i see.
mod6: for testing. etc.
asciilifeform: it was the only reason i had it.
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Is it better to be a paternalistic colonialist or a patronising anti-colonialist? - http://www.contravex.com/2015/12/20/is-it-better-to-be-a-paternalistic-colonialist-or-a-patronising-anti-colonialist/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: <punkman> mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box? << nah, the old qntra cluster. makes it the 2nd time in about a month wtf.
asciilifeform pictures scene, mircea_popescu's servers in burlap sack on motorcycle, an old pier, a splash
mod6: <+asciilifeform> it splits off from the node immediately prior to the removal << so in this scenario, the antecedents of asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch are [dns_thermonyukyoolar, rev-bump, static_makefile_v002, genesis ]
mircea_popescu: the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue!
asciilifeform: mod6: correct. and afaik this behaviour does not need any special cases
mod6: so then those antecedents would point to the new vpatch (at the same node level as asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch) but a separate node.
asciilifeform: mod6: an odd way to phrase it (descendants point to ancestors, really) but yes.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 15:35:20; jurov: " << MIT got inspired
mod6: ah, yeah, sorry -- following the arrows in the graph.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i can hardly think of better name than 'vuvuzela' for a usg idiocy built solely to drown out intelligent thought
asciilifeform: bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzhhhhttt!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ahahaha right. let me know when you've seen geysers of shit spewing from your bathtub<<< i don't live in the fucking swamp.
mod6: haha blow your vuvuzela
mircea_popescu: just because you can pump the shit uphill doesn't mean you should.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform african innovation yes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was strictly downhill. known bug of 100-y.o. clay pipe: porous. roots follow gradient.
mircea_popescu: 100 yo ?!
mircea_popescu waves disinterestedly. waaaaaa
asciilifeform: (possibly not quite 100)
mircea_popescu: "The breach is believed to be the work of a foreign government, U.S. officials said, because of the sophistication involved. " << fucktards.
asciilifeform: city hall said '1920s'
mircea_popescu: governments trail in every measure of efficiency, efficacity, sophistication or otherwise success, yet the assumption is that hey, if it work it musta been a government.
mircea_popescu: memory hole ftw.
assbot: Logged on 26-05-2014 18:58:27; asciilifeform: meanwhile! end of sewer saga: city excavated street, disassembled pipe, found tree roots behind the property line - which had become clogged with backed up crud (for the 30 hours or so the city's pipe was broken.) now they will fight with landlord's insurance co.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you think what's wrong with infrastructure neglected for a century is the clay, or the trees, or the roots or the gradients you're a very special fellow.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, they get replaced.
asciilifeform: who ever replaces sewer pipe ?
asciilifeform: in what country ?
mircea_popescu: romania ?
mircea_popescu: everyone ?
asciilifeform: ah the place where some schmuck got sweeheart contract with city hall to dig up ~whole town~ ?
mircea_popescu: no, that's boston.
mircea_popescu: anyway, my story with buying a coupla cartons of cigs for convicts digging street up ?
asciilifeform: possibly
mircea_popescu: that was the job, replacing the main sewage line. last done in the 60s.
asciilifeform: incidentally the city line was fine
mircea_popescu: done more or less on a 30-40 year cycle.
asciilifeform: this was the house line
asciilifeform: which is behind property line and so never replaced by anybody
mircea_popescu: hire more realtors.
mircea_popescu: the work'll get done by itself.
asciilifeform: my brother sometimes asks 'have you dug latrine yet'
asciilifeform: and i answer, 'not ~yet~'
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:07:47; asciilifeform: do i need to actually read this thing
mircea_popescu: but hey, they got a romanian too right ? must cunt for something.
asciilifeform to his grief went and read
asciilifeform: quite barfalicious.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348485 << hey, why ever fucking learn ? keep doing it.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:26:51; punkman: "Instead of abusing the exploit i have decided to help Coinbase fix the exploit by telling them step to step instructions on how to reproduce the bug on hackerone. After they were able to fix the exploit i was rewarded a measly $5,000 bounty, which i thought was unfair and was expecting to get upwards of $25,000. I helped them fix something that could have damaged them in hundreds of
mircea_popescu: and pay your taxes, too.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348500 << so be a mircea_popescu. the fucking point of the entire thing is for you to be a mircea_popescu.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:05:28; asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: ~~~ once upon a time, a disciple asked mircea_popescu: 'how do i become a mircea_popescu ?'
asciilifeform: and the master replied,
asciilifeform: 'every morning, when you wake up, look in the mirror; if you notice that you are not a mircea_popescu,
asciilifeform: take this Luger, and put it in your mouth, like so...
asciilifeform: by the next new moon, the remaining you will be a mircea_popescu . ~~~
jurov: i'd say the answer was "beat the universe down till it allows you to be mircea_popescu"
punkman: I thought the point is to put in others' mouths
asciilifeform: also works
asciilifeform: either formula, depending on whether you wanna be an intro- or extro-verted mircea_popescu
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: if i come with something usable, then vpatch
asciilifeform: i was sorta having this thread with mod6 earlier:
asciilifeform: v does not imply 'carved in stone for the ages'
asciilifeform: it quite readily supports obsoleted mistakes and dead ends
asciilifeform: and in fact makes a convenient record of what's been tried and rejected
asciilifeform: (you simply end up with a dead branch on the tree)
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta like ye olde blockchain
mircea_popescu: well, be all that as it may, i do hope that before i die i reach that enchanted nirvana where i don't have to deal with anyone other than mps.
asciilifeform: now who doesn't dream of that !
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (you simply end up with a dead branch on the tree) << very much this
mircea_popescu: and thius is a good thing.
asciilifeform: was sorta the point of 'v'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the other thing a vtron needs to handle is orphans << heh.
asciilifeform: afaik the only implementation that barfed from these is... mine
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348552 << im not sure this is such a good idea. conceptually it dillutes the whole notion, practically it makes cyclicity a nightmare.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:36:38; asciilifeform: the only necessary change to make working with multiple trees convenient would be 'multi-press' where you specify more than one 'head'
asciilifeform: mod6's works iirc
mircea_popescu: how about you just add the documentation as a pathc.
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 18:25:35; asciilifeform: re: earlier thread: a few hours of thinking led me to another potential boojum in 'v' : cyclic graphs
mircea_popescu: only took me half a minute!
asciilifeform: 1377 sk1lz
mircea_popescu: either that or the advantage of thinking in december vs august.
asciilifeform: anyway you don't get cycles unless somebody was a badboy
mircea_popescu: anyway. imo the english for lokalizatsiya provala would be "bug"
mircea_popescu: why mno!
asciilifeform: because that ain't it ?
asciilifeform: prolly best translation is 'damage control'
mircea_popescu: normally this works by going A implies A', B implies non-A',
mircea_popescu: "operable cancer" so to speak. ie, it's margin-able.
mircea_popescu: that's what bug fundamentally means.
mircea_popescu: and hence the difference between software that's right, but buggy, and software that's simply wrong - and so can't even BE buggy.
asciilifeform: yeah but original term meant something specific, quite analogous to chopping off your own arm that's been bitten by a cobra etc
punkman: "containement" sounds close to me
mircea_popescu: provala still means failure right ?
asciilifeform: specifically tradecraft
mircea_popescu: so then.
mircea_popescu: hey, maybe the english word for it should be "bridget fonda"
mircea_popescu: in memory of that indigestible imbecileho from city hall who then got her just deserts in jackie brown
mircea_popescu: !up TheNewDeal
TheNewDeal: they're slowly cutting me off from resources
mircea_popescu: who an'\ what resources ?
TheNewDeal: I think it's the USA control bureau
TheNewDeal: like trilema
TheNewDeal: and I"m assuming it's the financials next
TheNewDeal: I believe that they used my family to set me up, and now they're going to punish me capitally for sending a bitcoin tx
mircea_popescu: seems a little far fetched doesn't it ?
TheNewDeal: not exactly
TheNewDeal: I was researching mpex moneys on the blockchain website
TheNewDeal: and I saw funds go from the usa bitcoin siezure into the mpex funds
mircea_popescu: you and at least ten thousand other peopl,e ?
mircea_popescu: of course ?
mircea_popescu: what else would you expect them to do with bitcoin ? send it to coinbase ?
assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0BZM2XF.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67250 @ 0.00048493 = 32.6115 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform missed this l0lm0m3nt
TheNewDeal: have they always been using these mind manipulation tools in the US ascii?
TheNewDeal: like the ones that require a spectrum analyzer
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: for some reason they never fire at folks who own a spectrum analyzer, even a very old and ratty one
asciilifeform: so i can't comment
asciilifeform will have to be driven mad with good old fashioned poison and shot with old-fashioned guns
asciilifeform: aha, downer
TheNewDeal: I didn't think that sending a couple transactions would bring on this type of firepower from the US
mircea_popescu: what, concretely ?
mircea_popescu: !up trader001
TheNewDeal: what firepower?
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: perhaps you're just for target practice, like most folk
mircea_popescu: yes TheNewDeal, you're being all vague and shit.
TheNewDeal: they had used mind control tools. they were literally prepping me with questions to talk to a psychiatrist the night before
TheNewDeal: and they could actually move my vocal cords and limbs as well
trader001: did anyone buy for 436$ to go short?
TheNewDeal: heart pumping as well
Birdman: TheNewDeal: It was explained to me as such, the unsustainable inefficient entity that is the USG probably isnt even capable of pulling off schemes like you suggest
mircea_popescu: trader001 you sell to go short, not buy.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal honestly, this sounds a lot more like a psychotic episode than anything in phenomenology.
TheNewDeal: Watch them, I'm guessing they're going to put up an impending court case against me in the United States
trader001: sorry... I meant buy for 436 to do a little day trading
asciilifeform: how come nobody smears lsd on ~my~ doorknob, l0l
mircea_popescu: cuz you'd prolly sell it.
asciilifeform: with doorknob aha
asciilifeform: 'valuable usg doorknob!'
TheNewDeal: what about all this jazz going on worldwide
TheNewDeal: don't you think there's some sort of world war impending?
TheNewDeal: or perhaps already on the rise
mircea_popescu: in fairness, ww1 was named by gallup poll, so
Birdman: There are no soldiers if there are no paychecks
mircea_popescu: the best soldiers aren't mercs.
asciilifeform falls down
TheNewDeal: I'm telling you they used carbon monoxide training, or a similar gas on me in the hospital
mircea_popescu: what were you in teh hospital for ?
TheNewDeal: I checked myself in voluntarily
TheNewDeal: I tweaked after smoking some dope
asciilifeform: wai wut srsly
mircea_popescu: ok. and what's carbon monoxide training ?
TheNewDeal: they let out gas in the hospital
TheNewDeal: and I could see everyone coughing
TheNewDeal: like the staff
mircea_popescu: well, if they do it's not co. you don't cough from that.
mircea_popescu: it's not in the slightest bit an irritant.
TheNewDeal: hmmm it seems i've been duped hardcore
mircea_popescu: in fact people routinely get poisoned with co and have not the slightest inkling.
mircea_popescu: hence "silent killer"
TheNewDeal: I would not trust my own transmissions in the future, I believe they've gained access to my keys
asciilifeform: is TheNewDeal 'calling in strike on own position' ?
asciilifeform takes off hat
TheNewDeal: what do ya mean?
asciilifeform: self-negrate
mircea_popescu: !rate mircea_popescu 10 best mircea_popescu i know!
assbot: You can not rate yourself.
TheNewDeal: can you send me the command, I am still used to the bitcoin otc web trust
TheNewDeal: !rate TheNewDeal potential USG spy, suspected terror alert
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
TheNewDeal: !rate TheNewDeal -10 potential USG spy, suspected terror alert
assbot: You can not rate yourself.
TheNewDeal: I think they're using me to scare people away from bitcoin
Birdman: I think you need to calm down and get ahold of yourself mentally. Good god where's your fortitude man?
TheNewDeal: Who're you Birdman
TheNewDeal: I'll tell all of you where I live and my name and then they can watch for the news
TheNewDeal: I know you're trying to play me for a fool
Birdman: !gettrust thenewdeal
assbot: Trust relationship from user Birdman to user thenewdeal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=Birdman&to=thenewdeal | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/thenewdeal/
TheNewDeal: !rate Birdman 1 suspicious; keep friends and enemies close in the WOT
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a284b5fb194c89ae
TheNewDeal: Have you ever had a bunch of people in a room act to lead you on to do something?
punkman: TheNewDeal: what kind of dope did you smoke before checking in to the hospital?
TheNewDeal: I'm not entirely sure. Was probably just normal old weed
TheNewDeal: They're pushing it like hotcakes in the US right now
TheNewDeal: I think they're using it to fund their war on sound computer science
TheNewDeal: any other USians notice any chinese style firewalls occuring for websites like trilema?
punkman: just the good old ddos
TheNewDeal: it's been down for days for me
TheNewDeal: same for you?
ben_vulpes: !s my servers
assbot: 39 results for 'my servers' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=my+servers
TheNewDeal: DNS lookup failures for me
ben_vulpes: !s muh boxen
assbot: 2 results for 'muh boxen' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=muh+boxen
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:29:21; mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.
ben_vulpes: ^^ extraneous '/' in those urls, mthreat kakobrekla
TheNewDeal: anyways, I'll drop my story - back to business
ben_vulpes: TheNewDeal: mircea_popescu's boxes are getting stolen and you're complaining about a bad trip?
ben_vulpes: where's the "MPEx down for over a month in 2016" bet?
TheNewDeal: My sister almost got shot in that massacre in california as well
TheNewDeal: there's a lot of loose ends that are popping up for me
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, how does one calculate the odds of mutually-exclusive outcomes from binary odds on each individual outcome?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c ^^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: what means 'almost shot' ? bullet whistled by, took off hat ?
ben_vulpes: beyond that mircea_popescu and hanbot are probably the experts and asciilifeform might know the maths
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wai wut
asciilifeform: sounds like you're describing an ordinary coin flip ?
ben_vulpes: take the odds on the republican election
asciilifeform: what next, odds of boxing match ?
ben_vulpes: unless i'm even wronger than normal that's not a clean mapping
mircea_popescu: <TheNewDeal> I'll tell all of you where I live and my name and then they can watch for the news << alright ?
ben_vulpes: there are n candidates, each with individual odds of winning a competition. how do i derive odds on the whole field from those binary outcomes?
mircea_popescu: ahaha rthat sound cs bit is golden. i'm bashing
punkman: !up dbclk
punkman: ben_vulpes: what is whole field?
ben_vulpes: rubio, trump, etc
jurov: ben_vulpes trump running solo is kinda.. ternary outcome, no?
ben_vulpes: jurov: please for to not be getting the pathological cases involved
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's going to be disagreement so you hafta reconcile numbers somehow.
jurov: they're not pathological, just black swans. with a toupee.
ben_vulpes: i guess i'm asking if there's a known closed-form solution to this question.
ben_vulpes: gold swans lol
mircea_popescu: for instance : if bet on tails is 50/40 btc and bet on heads is 42/49 btc, and they're both the same coin toss, then you could say it's (50+49)/(90+91) for tails.)
mircea_popescu: if your dice is more-than-two sided exactly nothing changes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00048945 = 16.3966 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes needs a refresher in elementary statistics apparently
mircea_popescu: obviously, HOW you reconcile the numbers is an open question.
mircea_popescu: above, simple weighted averaging. if you have any knowledge of the field there's prolly a better curve to use
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell TheNewDeal Have you considered lithium cooling for your brain to increase USG resistance?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: BingoBoingo: why lithium?
jurov: NaK is imo better, fluid at usual temps, brain can be immersed directly
BingoBoingo: jurov: AHA. I was just thinking something to reduce the voltages a bit, though too much lithium takes the action potentials up to 111eleventy!!! and seizures.
BingoBoingo: But as long as not too much safe.
BingoBoingo: Lithium's also the very rare psych drug that actually reduces suicide risk
BingoBoingo: when used that way
jurov took cooling a bit literally
BingoBoingo: It literally does that too
jurov: i'm drinking li mineral water too, when feel like it
BingoBoingo: It's good stuff. Just doctor sort of lithium doses aren't very good for actual hot weather. That much of different salt really messes with the sweating and made for a miserable summer.
BingoBoingo: But that's when integer mmol/liter in the body is achived.
BingoBoingo: But you may be right NaK look very promising for immersion cooling
mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure.
BingoBoingo: "Somehow this soft suburban environment and two witlessly loving parents who trusted friends, relatives, teachers and neighbors with their oldest son, resulted in a violent psychopath. " >> http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3490
assbot: JL: Action Sites, Childhood ... ( http://bit.ly/22iVpcc )
assbot: Officer in VonDerrit Myers Jr. fatal shooting resigns after crashing car; drunk driving probe opened : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1meqCfW )
BingoBoingo: "When police responded to the accident, a witness said a police car had caused the damage and fled."
mod6: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: what are we to do about the deps for buildroot?
mod6: I've been in halt mode for a week now, not sure if this has been sorted yet.
mircea_popescu: probably will end up having to freeze a specified set.
mircea_popescu: "clingwrap" as it's apparently called.
BingoBoingo: 2.4.x kernel? *crosses fingers*
mod6: 2.4 was ubercrasher for me
mircea_popescu: the question's thorny enough
mod6: so I think programatically I have it worked out on how to make this happen, was about to test last weekend? lemme dig up the logs on this.
ben_vulpes: freeze 'em.
mircea_popescu: in other news, one inch of costa rica coffee, three inches of milk, a pinch of black sugar, three drops of vanilla oil (actual!), four ice-cubes and havana club anejo especial (genuine) qs makes the god-damnedest... bootleg kalhua let's call it/
assbot: Mr. Freeze's Puns - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1mer6CN )
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> freeze 'em. << what is specifically meant by this?
mod6: dl'em, sign 'em, hash 'em, put 'em in a manifest and distribute?
mod6: (& host 'em)
mod6: or re-package the entire source under our own "fork" of these pacakages?
mircea_popescu: prolly the latter.
ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
mod6: my original idea was the former.
ben_vulpes: i'm leaning towards a 'monorepo'
mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
mircea_popescu: it would be so good if this "import" model of software died.
mircea_popescu: of course... not trivial
ben_vulpes: simply because every additional http call to get another bundle of source is another weak link, another hole for the night etc
ben_vulpes: plus yeah, we have V, why not really tax it.
mircea_popescu: well no. every additional http call to get anothe rbundle is nothing
mircea_popescu: the FIRST cal however, is an infinity of leaks.
mircea_popescu: this is how the cancer spread in the first place
mircea_popescu: "you're a whore now anyway, baby, so why not suck this cock"
ben_vulpes: one could stick source dependencies into some "lib" dir, wire that into the builder, update the scripts and then produce some new patches with the entire world, right?
ben_vulpes: only question in my mind is if we stick linus' kernel in there too.
asciilifeform: i go pet a pet for an hour and come back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348866
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:45:00; BingoBoingo: 2.4.x kernel? *crosses fingers*
mod6: I think this was the conversation from a few weeks ago: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2015#1340754
assbot: Logged on 11-12-2015 02:21:30; mod6: so what I'm hoping to accomplish here is to alter the .mk files that accompany buildroot, so they pull the 3rd party reqs directly from the foundation site instead of wherever they currently point to.
asciilifeform: ferfuxsake 2.4 doesn't run on anything one might care to run today
asciilifeform: where did this crack smoke even come from
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348856 << i'm not actually sure whether it needs any change
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:25:44; mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure.
BingoBoingo: I might have been a while since I paid attention to Linux kernel versions
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
mod6: think its worthwhile just to put out the changes for V to have the checking of the hashes in place, while skipping over any "b" that is false? (files that since been deleted?)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
asciilifeform: you can build it (if lucky) AND THAT'S ABOUT IT
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present << yeah I think it does this from the 'dl' directory
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
asciilifeform: i picked buildroot because it was the ONLY practical solution to letting folks who had not dedicated their lives to self-torture build a reasonable self-contained linux for $weirdcpu
asciilifeform: rather than it being any kind of long-term answer to ANYTHING.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE << i may have mis-remembered this or conflated it with something else.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
asciilifeform: no mod6 remembers correctly
asciilifeform: i said that buildroot is not really v-ifiable.
asciilifeform: because it is not human-edible.
asciilifeform: (and, note, there is NO known alternative to it)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so buildroot is out of scope then.
asciilifeform: i did try netbsd, which has all of the same necessary attributes, BUT lacked essential drivers
asciilifeform: netbsd is - potentially - v-ifyable.
ben_vulpes: (the kernel line was a joke, but whatever)
asciilifeform: i even ported it to motherfucking pogo
asciilifeform: BUT i never finished the nand support.
asciilifeform: because... takes actual work
asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now!
asciilifeform: this experiment, if anyone recalls, is how i discovered the libc crud to begin with
ben_vulpes: too much problem surface area!
asciilifeform: see logz.
ben_vulpes: dependencies to freeze: bdb, boost, openssl
ben_vulpes: none of those are really human-verifiable either.
ben_vulpes: (shiva-verifiable, perhaps)
asciilifeform: if i ever sign a bdb, boost, or openssl as 'honestly reviewed this' please shoot me
mod6: they're all a can-o-worms
ben_vulpes: how to bridge the gap between 'v means i read and agree' vs. 'we need the source for these deps in the v-tree'?
asciilifeform: v the tarball hashes.
mod6: or simply just a manifest of tarballs/deps required for the one-button-push deployment of trb
mod6: v'd
asciilifeform: i may have said this before, but it bears repeating - some folks might be labouring under unrealistic expectations re: what is possible with the reference trb.
asciilifeform: imho it has strictly two uses, 1) REFERENCE for writing an actual bitcoinatron, which is ~why i asked for it~ 2) keep the continuity flame burning until we can have 1
asciilifeform: possibly also 3) tx value/byte ordering --- but i'd put that under 2
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348925 /me has been unsuccessful building trb on any bsd as of yet
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 22:01:59; asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now!
asciilifeform: shinohai: build static for linux and use compat layer
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's 2 that makes me want to vendor dependency sources.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is both necessary and easy
asciilifeform: and iirc mod6 already did it
asciilifeform: just hash the contents of buildroot's cache dir
asciilifeform: but notably, the result is NOT something that anybody will dive into and clean up trb-style
ben_vulpes: our current vendoring goes and pulls that from thebitcoin.foundation, right?
asciilifeform: (go and try)
asciilifeform: but yes, fetching tarballs from the net during a build is retarded
ben_vulpes: implies deps on dns, net, a million failure points.
asciilifeform: whole thing gotta ride in one ball
asciilifeform: and be cd-ifying
asciilifeform: *cd-ifyable
asciilifeform: a la openbsd.
asciilifeform: then we can have cd pressed, at some point, and distribute ANY AND ALL changes as vpatches.
ben_vulpes: we'll need to v everything
asciilifeform: pressing of cd was perhaps the ONE good idea in openbsd
ben_vulpes: unless we want seperate v 'repos' for each dep for distributing patches to those libs
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all the deps, really, are on the chopping block
asciilifeform: boost is - per my current estimate - removable if we're willing to replace boostisms with c++11isms
asciilifeform: openssl is removable as per yesterday's thread (and the three or four similar old threadz)
asciilifeform: bdb is removable if anybody dares
asciilifeform: alternatively the whole orchestra is removable if somebody finds a bag of gold
ben_vulpes: it's vastly more likely that someone's going to need to crap out a patch for eg openssl than replace it wholesale.
asciilifeform: i ain't patching openssl.
ben_vulpes: et al
asciilifeform: medicine for a corpse.
mod6: yeah, i think we need to write our own crypto lib
mod6: in the end.
ben_vulpes: and just the likelihood of that happening makes me want those under v.
mod6: as crazy as that might be
ben_vulpes: yeah we might get there and again stan might get hit by a bus tomorrow
asciilifeform: mod6: we need to write own everything. long before the end.
mod6: agreed.
asciilifeform: and my bus is virtually guaranteed to appear before all of this is over.
asciilifeform: so nobody should be slacking.
mod6: i don't think anyone is slacking.
ben_vulpes will sign off on tarballs and v'd hashes thereof.
mod6: there's just a ton of stuff to do, 'tis all.
thestringpuller starts humming "Sweet Life" in front of mod6
thestringpuller: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Did charlie just steal your article? https://medium.com/@SatoshiLite/eating-the-bitcoin-cake-fc2b4ebfb85e#.7l1nrx2a9
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: so just to be clear, so I'm not holding anything up here; hashes of the following tarballs in V: BDB, openssl, and boost.
mod6: buildroot + its deps included in this list?
ben_vulpes: negative.
mod6: so just those three then? and the rest are outside the scope then.
mod6: Alright, good talk.
ben_vulpes: yeah i didn't hear anything from asciilifeform to the contrary
jurov: btw, i'm testing unchanged same code as i posted with jemalloc and zapmempool does shrink RSS by 50MB
jurov: so maybe we end up with malloc library, too... at least till mempool is completely redone
jurov: http://www.colorforth.com/1percent.html haha dude asks we give him a problem
jurov: i can think of one :D
jurov: "But don't expect me to read the C, I couldn't."
jurov: "but hey, this isn't C, but C++". *meltdown*
jurov: !up samO
adlai: "As an infix language, it encourages nested parentheses. Sometimes to a ludicrous extent. They must be counted and balanced." << some maintain that even prefix notation has this effect...
adlai: the culprit is variadicity, syntax is a lot easier when all operators have known 'stack effect'
adlai: http://www.colorforth.com/map.htm << somebody shares alf's dataflow dreams
ben_vulpes: god bless chuck
ben_vulpes: legend has it that he reprogrammed hung satellites on the fly with forth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.00048772 = 16.2655 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00048773 = 4.2676 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: in other news, the oh in ohio is a pretty decent movie.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> only question in my mind is if we stick linus' kernel in there too. <<< eventually ;/
mircea_popescu: what, we only 0.01% of the engineers we need, why not make it 0.00001% ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE << it's a starting point. you know, just like bitcoin-shitcore.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now! << o hey!
mircea_popescu: you know we really need a lot better communication for these things.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski yo start communicatin' before you get excommunicated!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> how to bridge the gap between 'v means i read and agree' vs. 'we need the source for these deps in the v-tree'? <<< " I signed this because we need the source for this shit. I didn't read it, I don't need to read it to tell you it's shit."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> pressing of cd was perhaps the ONE good idea in openbsd <<< certainly not a bad one.
thestringpuller: what's going on with qntra? is it dns this time?
mircea_popescu: you gotta read the logs
mircea_popescu: <jurov> so maybe we end up with malloc library, too... at least till mempool is completely redone <<< ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: this shit is so ridiculous by now...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00048493 = 7.7104 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1233/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jul-2016/#b18
mircea_popescu: that's brave
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 389433 | Current Difficulty: 9.34486707963238E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 391103 | Next Difficulty In: 1670 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: "Sadly, that is not an undesirable result. Bloated code does not just keep programmers employed, but managers and whole companies, internationally. Compact code would be an economic disaster. Because of its savings in team size, development time, storage requirements and maintainance cost."
mircea_popescu: heh. he's right there. it would be an pseudo-economic disaster, in the sense "economic" has come to carry in the world of "we just wanted to" and "we have come to expect".
mircea_popescu: meanwhile a whole lot of "global warming" snake oilmanship and heaps upon heaps of idle handwringing about various restatements of the "ecology" problem.
mircea_popescu: nobody cares to look at the root causes. "hey derps ? you're being as inefficient as humanly possible" "well of course, any other course would be an economic disaster" "your idea of economy is like a rat's idea of hygiene : the more sewers the better" "so ?"
mircea_popescu: "It is in a programmer's best interest to exaggerate the complexity of his program."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19798 @ 0.00048925 = 9.6862 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: the mess of complexity in development (not just 'web', chil'ren) is very very similar to the argentine problem of everyone believing their flats are worth all that us paper.
ben_vulpes: i don't see a macri coming by to devalue the webstack though. have been struggling to cook up the scenario wherein the world's managers declare technological bankruptcy and completely failing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that scenario is very similar to mp going "i'm paying 1 btc for wuille's death cert".
mircea_popescu: exactly in the same way "development" is similar to "argentina"
mircea_popescu: at some point and on some level the nude reality of "this guy wants you dead. no, he doesn't think you did a great thing. he doesn't even think you're 'not worth hiring' or even worth zero. he thinks you're so far under 0 it can't be put in other words". and "aaaah, he's crazy" only goes so far.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $1,000 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1234/bitcoin-to-top-1-000-before-jul-2016/#b16
ben_vulpes looks forward to mp's contract for the death of modern web tech
mircea_popescu: the way this shitshow worked is that every single fucking derp running the "changing the world" pseudo-entrepreneurial circuit is trying to encapsulate a short perl program into "a website" and then "sell it" to "a market". because fuck me, seriously, there's now "a market" for five awk calls. every single fucking "service" and "idea" and "product" and bullshit out there looking for "investment" is really a glorified p
mircea_popescu: ile of three curls and a grep.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, this isn't the first pass of this nonsense. bill gates built microsoft out of the exactly same idiocy.
mircea_popescu: so, on its own terms, in its own time, it just sinks further into this shitpit.
ben_vulpes afk, will follow along via ipnohe
mircea_popescu: about as sterile as it gets, except for the part where it drives the emotions of the mob into max gear.
assbot: A startup postmortem with a happy ending? ..in... | By the Beard of Zeus! ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nvz17S )
assbot: When your startup runs out of money you only got 1 problem — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1IiExvU )
mircea_popescu: so 1st, he's going to "sell" the genius "service" of literally a half hour's worth of perling around. and goes through all the motion as if this nonsense were genuinely a business, and had anything to do with money, employment, the works.
mircea_popescu: THEN when that boring shit goes nowhere, he convinces some misfortunate borderlines to... go live in thailand! because totally, shit'll make sense there.
mircea_popescu: shit doesn't make sense there, chiefly because wtf, it's still a pointless perl script nobody cares about. so he...
mircea_popescu: well he moves on to medium, and keeps at it. one of these days, if he wishes it hard enough, someone somewhere is going to trade actual bowls of soup and actual bong hits and so forth for some shit he found on a hard drive in the garbage dump.
mircea_popescu: how's he not better, how's he different from every afrigan goat ex-herder (the flood/drought/global warming/xenu killed the goats) that's now a garbage trawler ?
mircea_popescu: same pipe dream, really.
gabrielradio: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2015#1338679 << besides buenos aires, which other cities would qualify?
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2015 23:39:51; mircea_popescu: for this reason. the fundamental incentive to living anywhere is whether you can stick it to the middle class through this mechanism or not. if you can't, they can stew in their own juices and play mahjong or whatever the fuck they play, bingo.
mircea_popescu: gabrielradio any place that currently has currency controls in place is a good bet ; any place where rents are below cover value (romania - perhaps with the exception of bucharest - is a fine example here). any country with a weak central government (the ones with a strong central government don't have a middle class by definition). on it goes.
mircea_popescu: any place where your fiance (that's only had sex with like... 2 guys before you, and you're the best, and her father paid for her college) doesn't want to go but the stripper you met yesterday does.
mircea_popescu: many heuristics.
gabrielradio: the last one is particularly instructive
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2015 23:34:54; mircea_popescu: and if you want actual numbers, i just got a coupla girlies an apt. the sale value would have been i guess 160-170k or so. the monthly rent is 750. the first month, the washing machine went, and the owner replaced it. the next month, ac went (brother was that an incredible pos job wow), owner replaced it. so far owner's been making 0 from his property.
mircea_popescu: incredibly enough.
gabrielradio: ima translate that once trilema is back up
mircea_popescu: shouldn't be long.
mircea_popescu: !up zoidy
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: wouldn't half of africa fit this bill?
mircea_popescu: possibly.
liquidassets: date=18-12-2015#1346518 << Maybe why I walk around with this shit eating grin all the time..
assbot: Logged on 18-12-2015 15:44:18; mircea_popescu: by this reasoning food is "motly shit already" anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00048936 = 6.484 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21865 @ 0.00048493 = 10.603 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00048492 = 18.5724 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00049093 = 18.1153 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35450 @ 0.00048597 = 17.2276 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: CPU Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1YqoO4N )
punkman: no server worthy AMDs in there?
BingoBoingo: for srs
punkman: I mean they have the 50core xeons
punkman: but no opteron?
assbot: Victoria's Secret Angels Lip Sync "Hands to Myself" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1YqqSK7 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14540 @ 0.00048834 = 7.1005 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31750 @ 0.00049089 = 15.5858 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: "But I'm game. Give me a problem with 1,000,000 lines of C. But don't expect me to read the C, I couldn't. And don't think I'll have to write 10,000 lines of Forth. Just give me the specs of the problem, and documentation of the interface."
punkman: problem is how do you make a spec out of 1mil lines of C
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 438.54, vol: 21363.05673128 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 435.798, vol: 10133.75385 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 435.18, vol: 58460.49476529 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 451.344473, vol: 127964.96260000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 437.0, vol: 197.28930119 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 445.411619978, vol: 122.90168725 | Volume-weighted last average: 445.022930078
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