5h 34m6d 23h 29m4d 21h 33m403d 13h 49m

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nein
asciilifeform: 375290 and running
mircea_popescu: ProcessBlock: BASTARD BLOCK, prev=0000000000000000094d, DISCARDED
mircea_popescu: ProcessBlock: BASTARD BLOCK, prev=00000000000000000c64, DISCARDED
mircea_popescu: ProcessBlock: BASTARD BLOCK, prev=0000000000000000094d, DISCARDED
mircea_popescu: etc, the works.
mircea_popescu: just like back in the day.
asciilifeform: how long have you sat there ?
asciilifeform realized that this question is auto-answerable
mircea_popescu: this install ? about 3 days
asciilifeform: hm does gribble have a block-->epochaltime function ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who are you pulling from ?
mircea_popescu: the net.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha
asciilifeform: yes, nominally the thing is a p2p gadget, this oughta work, no? but in reality, yer cooking with gutter oil
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: any blackholing observed ?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: this thing is ever more friable, year after year.
mircea_popescu: but you realise, i am doing this deliberately.
asciilifeform: naturally
asciilifeform: how else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the most dire flaw, per my current understanding, is that the thing is loathe to discard a peer
asciilifeform: and when it does, ends up selecting a new peer more or less wildly
asciilifeform: (and so simply ends up wasting time spent on reconnecting)
mircea_popescu: at least part of the shitgnome objective ("make it impossible for random derp to run full node") will succeed within less than a year, if not actually successful enough already.
mircea_popescu: we utterly need those pogos deployed already.
mircea_popescu: dicking around with it long enough.
asciilifeform: realize that nobody but us (and the quasi-mythical 'smart miners') are running full nodes now.
mircea_popescu: i do.
asciilifeform: (phoundation's header-first-sync thing is not a node...!)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.0007319 = 24.4089 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: rewinding to,
assbot: Logged on 11-08-2015 13:36:02; asciilifeform: shinohai: see, i'd post a full recipe and signed binaries today, but we don't quite yet have a pogo-capable - that is, non-ramguzzling - bitcoind
asciilifeform: pogo is pending on two undone things:
asciilifeform: 1) hard-limited, value-weighted tx mempool
asciilifeform: 2)
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: ('2' shows the behaviour of a deterministically-syncing (from disk: -- (!!!) node. the block index grows linearly, ~300 byte per block.) this is entirely undigestible on a pogo.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Results of First 'Deterministic Sync' Experiment, With Memory Consumption Plots. ... ( )
asciilifeform: we can't have the thing occupying the entirety of ram.
asciilifeform: (and then some)
asciilifeform: i put an obscene and prolly unjustifiable amount of sweat into narrowing down the causes of the misery to 1 and 2.
asciilifeform: at one time there was a '3' - glibc-free, static, rom-burnable bitcoind. but we have it now.
asciilifeform: for all the good it did, re: pogo...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39850 @ 0.00073184 = 29.1638 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: btw there are misleading figures circulating re: 'size of the mempool today is 5MB' etc.
asciilifeform: useless, garbage number, anyone who claims to have a calculated value for it is lying or utterly illiterate
punkman: asciilifeform: why the sharp dropoff in that picture?
asciilifeform: punkman: it appears to come from liberated ram no longer needed for disk cache
asciilifeform: punkman: later i created a mechanism to measure only consumption from within the process proper, but i did not have time to turn this into a plot.
asciilifeform: punkman: what i ended up doing was manually combing the code for 'what gets eaten but never shat', and found the block index to be the obvious culprit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87700 @ 0.00073624 = 64.5682 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: i must also remind people that, sadly, these days i do not have anything close to the amount of time and energy needed to properly nail this thing.
asciilifeform: unless i somehow stumble across buried treasure, etc., it will have to be nailed by someone who is not me.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52600 @ 0.0007396 = 38.903 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: perhaps mircea_popescu ought to get busy teaching his pets cpp
asciilifeform: (either that, or tell me where the buries treazurez are!)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can actually unwedge it. i am satisfied the problem here is a subtle memory issue (not directly related to the bdb locks thing). specifically, to verify block 367851 bitcoind needs a certain amount of CONTIGUOUS memory. but it doesn't know this.
asciilifeform: this is called fragging.
mircea_popescu: the kernel thinks it has memory, the program thinks it was allocated memory, the verification fails and the process cycles indefinitely.
mircea_popescu: if someone new to low level stuff is eager to do some useful spec work, feel free to examine this issue.
mircea_popescu: im pretty certain 367851 is the best block to do it on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am curious as to the logic of this inference.
asciilifeform: tx-en are verified serially.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> btw there are misleading figures circulating re: 'size of the mempool today is 5MB' etc. << word. not a scalar.
asciilifeform: the scratch space used for the verification is allocated on the stack
mircea_popescu: it's a complex set of required blocks of allocable memory, and the hope that kernel allocates them correctly.
asciilifeform: and freed after each script ver.
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps chief reason we must have bitcoinos. general purpose memory allocation (ie, not bitcoin optimized) is garbage.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no logic, just induction.
mircea_popescu: that's why i say someone who has the tools to reason deductively should look at it.
asciilifeform: let's actually do this one
mircea_popescu: the instrumentation you need is userspace with specifiable available memory profile.
mircea_popescu: (ie, this many blocks of this size each)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think while the txn are verified serially maybe the memory for entire block is allocated somewhere ; haven't actually had someone dig into the code for this angle./
asciilifeform: it is.
asciilifeform: i have the thing on screen as we speak.
mircea_popescu: this is potentially even leverageable
mircea_popescu: it MIGHT do something dirty silently in that loop
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> utterly illiterate << kids today are used to adding things together. "how many pears do you get adding six ducks to eight nails ?" "14!!!"
asciilifeform: they will program in ada, in hell
mircea_popescu: like they programmed nipples in life aha.
asciilifeform: this is btw a beautiful pun, often exploited, in ru: язык ада == 'the language of hell'
mircea_popescu: hahaha
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 'lxr' is 1001 times more useful than doxygen. can haz both plz ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: doxygen is RETARDED, it takes actual sweat to so much as link to a specific line of src
asciilifeform: and the file browser, always visible, is mega-annoying
asciilifeform: the thing is graphically spiffy but entirely worthless in practice.
asciilifeform: other than for the flow graphs.
asciilifeform: hence i am stuck using jurov's original. here goes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:
mircea_popescu: unrelated lulz.
assbot: Man's $600,000 Facebook Ad Disaster - Business Insider ... ( )
asciilifeform: << we start verifying block
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: << verifying a tx sig
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bubble butts beckon. i shall return tomorrow!
asciilifeform: laterz.
mod6: asciilifeform: maybe jurov can add another lxr for v0.5.4 when release is official? i actually never use the doxygen one either.
asciilifeform: mod6: the lxr thing is indispensible
mod6: or whenever he gets time i suppose.
asciilifeform: i use it every time i look at the thing at all.
asciilifeform: but seeing rel1 in it gets old, fast.
mod6: me too, if i even use it at all. most of the time i just use an editor.
asciilifeform: i prolly ought to set the thing up on local disk
asciilifeform: editor doesn't give concordance
asciilifeform: (emacs will tell me where a string occurs, sure, but this is pointedly NOT what i want)
mod6: anyway, yeah, i agree. we'll have to get lxr setup for v0.5.4 for sure, and maybe at that time we just drop doxygen or just point at it for the call graphs.
asciilifeform: it doesn't hurt to have it. for the call graphs.
asciilifeform: esp. since nobody ever did the chore, yet, of making a usable wall-sized call graph like i asked for
asciilifeform: (yes, someone did half of it, a btc's worth, but the result is not yet something i can send off to the print house and get a wall poster)
mod6: didnt some guy get paid for a graph, or was that a differnet thing?
mod6: ah.
asciilifeform: this very thing.
asciilifeform: he wrote some code which could, theoretically, be used to make this.
mod6: ok, i see.
mod6: also, fwiw my TEST2 node has block 375296
asciilifeform: 'Recently, however, Brar has fallen out of love with Facebook. He discovered — as Business Insider reported recently — that his Facebook fanbase was becoming polluted with thousands of fake likes from bogus accounts. He can no longer tell the difference between his real fans and the fake ones. Many appear fake because the users have so few friends, are based in developing countries, or have generic profile pictures.' << oh
asciilifeform: noez, he wanted genuine dead souls, not synthetic dead souls !!111111
asciilifeform: mod6: same
asciilifeform: mod6: my box is not wedged.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57575 @ 0.00073346 = 42.229 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: an anecdote but when i snoop the facebooks of the girls i wanted to bang in high school yet never did, their last posts are usually 2012-2013
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15325 @ 0.00073184 = 11.2154 BTC [-]
punkman: ;;ud finstagram
gribble: | Finstagram, finsta for short, is a mixture of Fake & Instagram. People, usually girls , get a second Instagram account along with their real instagrams, rinstagrams, ...
cazalla: what's a fkn rinstagram
cazalla: ;;ud rinstagram
gribble: | Finstagram, finsta for short, is a mixture of Fake & Instagram. People, usually girls , get a second Instagram account along with their real instagrams, rinstagrams, ...
punkman: the fake-name instagram/facebook/etc and the real-name instagram
cazalla: i still don't understand how or why tiny boxed photos with lense flare and filters is more popular than a proper photo.. could normal photos be just as social?
cazalla: perhaps the quality of the photo is meant to match the shitty subject manner
punkman: I suppose 640pixels was all anyone had on their phones when instagram started
punkman: low-res probably helps with the cellulite too
cazalla: somewhat of a paradox.. why buy new iphones each year with over 9000 mega pixels only to down sample..
cazalla: i've heard "i needed the better camera" quite a few times
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87963 @ 0.00073876 = 64.9835 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88050 @ 0.00075445 = 66.4293 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00075736 = 11.9284 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7337 @ 0.00075779 = 5.5599 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109250 @ 0.00074077 = 80.9291 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00073184 = 56.2053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47050 @ 0.00075478 = 35.5124 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00075779 = 5.2666 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00074883 = 26.5835 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34458 @ 0.00075779 = 26.1119 BTC [+]
punkman: << the reply couldn't be more lulzy if you tried
assbot: Logged on 19-09-2015 11:17:04; punkman: "During our ongoing discussions with Symantec we determined that the issuance occurred during a Symantec-internal testing process." hah
assbot: A Tough Day as Leaders | Symantec Connect Community ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76405 @ 0.00075779 = 57.8989 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8295 @ 0.00075802 = 6.2878 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.00075407 = 32.2742 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.0007365 = 50.9658 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0007365 = 19.2963 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21655 @ 0.00073558 = 15.929 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 15.22276832 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November -
BingoBoingo: << Banned as drug precursor
assbot: Logged on 19-09-2015 22:49:11; asciilifeform: << i thought betel was banned in usa? or was that khat ?
BingoBoingo: Both of them
BingoBoingo: By the time I was buying TI-92 without the plus 29 including shipping
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94600 @ 0.00074703 = 70.669 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00074307 = 13.5239 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: << Only AMAZING COMPANY ALA LABCOIN here is the retarded pace of UMD and friends. Like... The never jsut tried sending random messages at nodes to see what they do?
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 00:29:16; pete_dushenski: for a node network n00b, i found the aforejizzed quote quite interesting
BingoBoingo: Actually the part where there is no way for the hub node to be configured such that "hey this -connect node is cool to peer only with me" is a problem
BingoBoingo: Although assume hostile is a useful default attitude I am not sure act hostile is a useful default
BingoBoingo: What coach doesn't ask a player to give it their all in the game?
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 01:50:44; mircea_popescu: i think suicide bombing not only can be but actually is perfectly justified.
BingoBoingo: << No, but Mr. Holland's Opus was the worst film ever
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 01:53:14; mircea_popescu: wait, old holland's banned in the us ?!
BingoBoingo: << Turns out BIP 101 is less of a thing than huffing ether. No Surprise.
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 03:11:39; mircea_popescu: very instructive comparison, vs
BingoBoingo: << Believe it of not this is actually the plot of "'Fallout": New Vegas'
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 03:40:34; *: mircea_popescu foresees great cinematic drama, "the brainwallet". where guy gets shot in head, has to recoup his brainwallet.
BingoBoingo: << Have you considered -addnode for a bunch of suspected chicom peers. The ones I ended up committing to bitcoin.conf are lovely
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:09:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the most dire flaw, per my current understanding, is that the thing is loathe to discard a peer
BingoBoingo: On OpenBSD (non-pogoable) the latest BDB locks fix added ~800MB of memory allocation for bitcoind
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:34:28; asciilifeform: the scratch space used for the verification is allocated on the stack
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57065 @ 0.00073334 = 41.848 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3742 @ 0.0007307 = 2.7343 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.0007307 = 12.2392 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61622 @ 0.00073068 = 45.026 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 275178 @ 0.00073094 = 201.1386 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00073784 = 48.1072 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66352 @ 0.00075135 = 49.8536 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 6.35530000 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00073335 = 57.8613 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: hhhhola
mircea_popescu: !
mircea_popescu: << bane of foss.
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:56:57; asciilifeform: (yes, someone did half of it, a btc's worth, but the result is not yet something i can send off to the print house and get a wall poster)
mircea_popescu: no closure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00073335 = 6.0868 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73600 @ 0.00073335 = 53.9746 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126263 @ 0.00073838 = 93.2301 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: Buenas dias, misfits.
mircea_popescu: shouldn't it be Bit-coin ?
mircea_popescu: << i lolled at "recently'
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:58:26; asciilifeform: noez, he wanted genuine dead souls, not synthetic dead souls !!111111
mircea_popescu: "A Tough Day as Leaders" wait wut, who's symantec the leaders of.
mircea_popescu: dude everyone in english is a leader. apparently leadees not required. they lead lead.
mircea_popescu: btw check out BingoBoingo and his rand paul bet. well done bb!
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 8.00000000 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
mircea_popescu: << just about 1 jiggabyte, yeah.
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 09:36:21; BingoBoingo: On OpenBSD (non-pogoable) the latest BDB locks fix added ~800MB of memory allocation for bitcoind
mircea_popescu: and from the retard files :
assbot: Is $116M enough for security expert, Matt Pauker, to save bitcoin with 21 Inc.? ... ( )
mircea_popescu: your pincers is in another castle!
mircea_popescu: in other news, "Mass amnesia in effect in/Bitcoin to downplay AbbyGate. No one remembers her...Who?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00073335 = 12.1003 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: buttcoin is upset that apparently nobody in bitcoin reads r/bitcoin or cares about reddit celebritits.
mircea_popescu: << turns out it's teenager lovedramas!
assbot: AbbyBitcoin Turns Out To Not Be A Fraud Afterall : Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: (spoiler : boy meets girl at insane asylum. neither is a visitor. she "is an artist". he "is writing a book", about DSM, of course, because what better qualifies one as an expert in the field than being insane.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55700 @ 0.00072997 = 40.6593 BTC [-] {5}
shinohai: Such drama.
mircea_popescu: if anyone actually holds some eth and is willing to lend it out... i'm all ears.
mircea_popescu: looking for something up to 100k or so.
mircea_popescu: trinque btw, you actively working on that otc website equiv ?
shinohai: A #bitcoin-assets otc? >>>
mircea_popescu: yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20964 @ 0.0007298 = 15.2995 BTC [-]
shinohai: That would be awesome if it was tied to btcalpha wot
mircea_popescu: well yes ?
mircea_popescu: how else.
shinohai: certainly not gribble
shinohai: heh ... "Hive wallet failing" Who wants another html5/js wallet?
assbot: Techtip | Tech Guides | Software Reviews | Technology Tips ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Techtip is a popular technology tips blog which aims to make your tech life easy by writing about software reviews, productivity and free web apps."
mircea_popescu: such startups.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 11.95068863 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo You were right about sig campaigns - "$1 is important to me"
assbot: Up to 0.035 BTC weekly for YOUR SIGNATURE *New rules ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26819 @ 0.00073501 = 19.7122 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37381 @ 0.00073501 = 27.4754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21519 @ 0.00074374 = 16.0045 BTC [+]
shinohai: <<< kek.
assbot: Ethereum Top Miner Stats | EtherScan ... ( )
mircea_popescu: i thought it's not even mined.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: If you can make any sense of this I *guess* it explains it:
assbot: How to help secure the Ethereum network FAQ - Ethereum ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "At Frontier, the first release of Ethereum, you'll just need a) a GPU and b) an Ethereum client, Geth. CPU mining will be possible but too inefficient to hold any value.
mircea_popescu: Codename Frontier, the initial live release of Ethereum consist of Geth, the Command Line Interface written in Go, and nothing else. At the moment, Geth only includes a CPU miner, and the team is testing a GPU miner branch, but this won't be part of Frontier."
mircea_popescu: so... which is it ?
mircea_popescu: "The algorithm is memory hard, you'll need at least 1+GB of RAM on each GPU"
mircea_popescu: nigga... say wut ?!
mircea_popescu: GeForce GTX 750 has, iirc, 1gb.
mircea_popescu: for, iirc, 8 cores.
mircea_popescu: anywya, whatevs.
shinohai: Also ... "Do not proceed with this guide using a machine on which you do not feel comfortable losing data, or even hardware. You have been warned - this is EXPERIMENTAL."
shinohai: Kinda reads to me "We need schmucks to test our shit, but don't want to waste money on resources. So you guys do it for us, but don't come crying to us if it borks your pc"
mircea_popescu: eh da fuck you gonna do to a vid card that breaks it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @ 0.00073687 = 26.4905 BTC [-]
shinohai: ;;later tell danielpbarron Is your node down?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37000 @ 0.00073241 = 27.0992 BTC [-]
nubbins`: <<< mine w/ it? ;p
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 13:53:58; mircea_popescu: eh da fuck you gonna do to a vid card that breaks it.
mircea_popescu: lol
nubbins`: i recall decades ago, larratt from bme claimed he'd written a program that'd fry 1st-gen sound blasters
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00073687 = 9.8741 BTC [+]
assbot: MUN prof tells very different story, hard-of-hearing student says - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( )
nubbins`: ^ unrelated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90528 @ 0.00073259 = 66.3199 BTC [-] {4}
danielpbarron: shinohai, unfortunately yes, but I hope to get it back online sometime today
shinohai: thx, I just rebooted and will connect to the one mp posted yesterday.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 228576 @ 0.00072972 = 166.7965 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50800 @ 0.00072817 = 36.991 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up analmaster
analmaster: hello ladies
danielpbarron: ;;later tell nubbins` my thing is a 'DS' so unless you think that game will also work on it, I'll have to pass on your offer
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.00073097 = 29.2023 BTC [+]
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, I've been hacking on the buy/sell board this morning over coffee
trinque: should make some decent headway today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1685 @ 0.00073686 = 1.2416 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00073749 = 18.9535 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00072867 = 15.3021 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96950 @ 0.00072827 = 70.6058 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66950 @ 0.00074017 = 49.5544 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: << recall how everything is 'oversold' in the cable modem sense ? where actually ~using~ all of what you paid for, will break it or use it up in record time? well, this.
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 13:53:58; mircea_popescu: eh da fuck you gonna do to a vid card that breaks it.
mircea_popescu: coolness.
asciilifeform has been recently carrying out a kind of survey of programming systems ~built for adults~. so far, nominees: common lisp, ada, standard ml. and that's ~it~
asciilifeform: rough and non-exhaustive summary of what 'for adults' means:
asciilifeform: 1) type safety 2) MULTIPLE independent implementations 3) at least two NATIVE compilers exist 4) written international standard, preferably published on dead tree
asciilifeform: under (1) i also include bounds checking and sane error handling
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
mircea_popescu: i was hoping for whips and cuffs
asciilifeform: under (3) i also include that native compiler must support unix threading
asciilifeform: (or it is not properly speaking 'native')
asciilifeform: whips and cuffs come with ada
asciilifeform: if your book didn't come with then, get yer money back
asciilifeform: *them
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: i'd include forth, but it has the 'safety' of a frag grenade.
asciilifeform: (a frag is not a useless thing, has its place where nothing else will do. but only there.)
asciilifeform: i recall there was a thread where mircea_popescu unzipped and pissed on standards, but they are pretty much the only way you get to have (2) and (3)
asciilifeform: !up analmaster
analmaster: yo
analmaster: did you do some mopping asciilifeform
analmaster: moping?
asciilifeform: analmaster: a bit. about to do moar.
asciilifeform: analmaster: and you, for some reason, are rowing the galley today ?
assbot: ... ( )
analmaster: well
analmaster: im trying to do some work for the mines
mircea_popescu: iirc the issue was nist, not "standards"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00073531 = 28.1991 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21926 @ 0.00074017 = 16.229 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.00074116 = 31.0175 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up analmaster
assbot: AWS knocks Amazon, Netflix, Tinder and IMDb offline in MEGA data collapse • The Register ... ( )
mircea_popescu: aww
shinohai: (-__-)
assbot: myBlockchain is your private blockchain without the blocks or the chains. ... ( )
shinohai: Looks kinda like, i dunno, mysql.
asciilifeform: tr0l0l0l
punkman: Are you ready for FinTech? Are you ready for exposing yourself to cutting edge technology without spending time to understand how it works? Are you ready for flashing fancy new business cards at congresses, luncheons and breakfast briefings, with pre- and postfixes like bit, crypto, chain, coin, satoshi or block?
shinohai: keks
asciilifeform: 'We know that millions of transactions per second can be scary to some, especially banks who still call their customers and require them to fax in documents. In myBlockchain, you can limit the rate of transactions per second by requiring verification by a shamefully underpaid human being in your "back office" in the third world, just like you are used to.' << mega-win
asciilifeform: 'Chances are that your bank already forked C++ because they didn't like its open nature, and you now have to pay millions every year to the one guy who knows where all the libraries are.' << ahahahaha this is a thing of beauty
asciilifeform: << sr trial censored bits will stay censored.
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43460 @ 0.00074226 = 32.2586 BTC [+]
assbot: Texas electricity goes negative: Wind power was so plentiful one night that producers paid the state to take it. ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22371 @ 0.00074226 = 16.6051 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.0007433 = 26.3872 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26147 @ 0.00074387 = 19.45 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54008 @ 0.00074167 = 40.0561 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00074116 = 16.1573 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58723 @ 0.00074116 = 43.5231 BTC [-]
shinohai: <<< novel approach to the refugee crisis.
assbot: Egyptian billionaire: I found the island I want to buy for refugees - Sep. 16, 2015 ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28997 @ 0.00074388 = 21.5703 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00074142 = 12.3076 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00074334 = 6.1697 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71750 @ 0.00074333 = 53.3339 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57779 @ 0.00074307 = 42.9338 BTC [-]
trinque: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: soo teh golden goose sold for 15mn
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126000 @ 0.00074333 = 93.6596 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44223 @ 0.00074133 = 32.7838 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: one more restart of teh deedbot- and I'm through fiddling with that part.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.0007439 = 23.0981 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66950 @ 0.00074416 = 49.8215 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00074116 = 24.1618 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82642 @ 0.00074519 = 61.584 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8801 @ 0.00074617 = 6.567 BTC [+]
trinque: << got the unicode snowman to deed
assbot: ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, which golden goose?
cazalla: assuming eulora related, seem to recall a trilema post related to some income generating item
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00074608 = 20.2188 BTC [-]
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: imported: 881BD4068628D739CF7E5F35D258F57BC24B4DAD
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
adlai: ...
adlai: ...
adlai: ...
adlai: trinque: pls
trinque: maybe it's mad that there's both a key and a message in there
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
adlai: oh, it's two messages
adlai: there's no pgp key block, it's quoted :P
trinque: there's a key at the top
adlai: tis a message.
adlai: pgp is just silly
adlai: and calls a spade a rose
trinque: k then I don't support the format of that yet
trinque: can maybe fiddle with it in a minute and get it to go through
adlai races trinque
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: oh, that's what I thought, that it was missing the outermost message header
adlai would've had the foggiest notion of how to interact with the damn thing if its source were published
trinque: adlai: publishing src runs contrary to forcing people to join this WoT to use it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35722 @ 0.00074608 = 26.6515 BTC [-]
trinque: aside that there's nothing that special going on here.
adlai: !rate trinque -1 waiting for OP to deliver
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
assbot: Logged on 06-08-2015 16:01:42; trinque: but anyway, if you'd like a copy, I could give you one
trinque: eats pubkeys or clearsigned messages, farts bundles and transactions to the address derived from the sha256 of bundle as pubkey
adlai: (isn't this how you accomplish things in the Brave New Economy?)
trinque: decent method of signaling butthurt anyway
adlai: no, that would be !v
mats: i suggest a car blog
adlai: lol @ 'forcing'
trinque: er that's sha256 of bundle as the private key
trinque: adlai: I'm sure you could write this thing in a day
trinque: tenyks was used as the basis, though I've grown to dislike it and will eventually replace
adlai: !v assbot:adlai.rate.deedbot-.2:15fd2fd84ba1e5781dca82a9681f662a00e604f874e27def5cb0d6298d50bdd6
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for deedbot- from 1 to 2 with note: works as described, not as desired
adlai: !v assbot:adlai.rate.trinque.-1:23937d53d0bdb484ce05a81b6eaea7e9917101262b19b8724c0f46d15aa854b8
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for trinque from 1 to -1 with note: STILL waiting for OP to deliver
adlai: !down adlai
ben_vulpes: cute
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai open source in tmsr~ means a person can ask another person for a copy of the source, and might actually get it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: OP thought over it in the meanwhile and decided to keep it to himself
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.unrate.adlai:de74de9bcd8587e57dff154e4b5b5278c5071cb1a77885a107173d1025b16f59
assbot: Successfully unrated adlai
ben_vulpes: wai u all gotta be so dramatique
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00074617 = 26.7875 BTC [+]
shinohai: <<< This is the perfect place for someone that perceives pgp as "silly".
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 23:09:19; adlai: pgp is just silly
shinohai: ./s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12560 @ 0.0007443 = 9.3484 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61440 @ 0.0007443 = 45.7298 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) to drop below 14,000 before 8th October -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17871 @ 0.00074498 = 13.3135 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32097 @ 0.00074634 = 23.9553 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 231.95, Best ask: 231.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 231.97, 24 hour volume: 3523.07376493, 24 hour low: 231.4, 24 hour high: 233.38, 24 hour vwap: None
ben_vulpes: whoa
ben_vulpes: log is showing lines that my irc client is not
ben_vulpes: a no, pure derpitude on my part.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00074891 = 12.6191 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: eh, forcing people do things isn't the best strategy anyway.
mircea_popescu: cazalla eulora item.
adlai sighs
adlai: trinque: pls to compare and
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
adlai: !v assbot:adlai.unrate.deedbot-:76571928fcc755b2f8a24c1c31b84255cad1497770f9f056a37084e366b73afa
assbot: Successfully unrated deedbot-
mircea_popescu: people anmd their down jones fixation.
adlai: hey it urned us a buck dinnit?
mircea_popescu: trinque other than the silliness of trying to force people to do things, the more general problem with not publishing code is that it creates a world of perverse incentives for one,
mircea_popescu: sooner than later you'll find yourself chasing your tail because of it.
trinque: I'd probably be a lot more willing to shoot the guy a tarball without the antics
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
adlai: ... well at least it respects revocations!
adlai: !rated trinque
assbot: You rated user trinque on 28-Apr-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: highly educational, taught me not to trust unsigned text:
mircea_popescu: well that;s kinda people publish it rather than passing it along on a p2p basis. saves them the effort of evaluating everyone's antics.
adlai: trinque: what can i say, drama is a lifestyle
adlai wonders what's wrong with 34TTQ2X.txt, curl|gpg eats it just fine
mircea_popescu: prolly the comments.
adlai: you mean the quoted public key block getting interpreted as a valid one?
mircea_popescu: adlai what is your notion of "never" and "another message" anyway.
mircea_popescu: not like pgp has these notions.
mircea_popescu: that, yes.
adlai: those notions are uncontrovertial, neither is "forseen"
adlai: ie, if another message is signed, the key was cracked
adlai: (or dignork asked for a challenge)
mircea_popescu: how do you know if it was signed after or before.
adlai: lolkay, s/sign/deed/
mircea_popescu: ah.
mircea_popescu: well it makes a difference, it's not obvious at all.
danielpbarron: step 1) sign contract step 2) recieve payment of some sort step 3) revoke key and claim "cracked" when counterparty tries to make an appeal
adlai: idiot counterparty should've deeded it!
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
adlai: ok, progress
mircea_popescu: heh.
trinque: adlai: as for the one with a sig wrapping a sig, I'll have to update the code first.
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
adlai blinks
adlai: trinque: this is rather weird now
adlai has another idea...
trinque: nah that one looks right; maybe I busted something earlier.
trinque: adlai: wtf, you revoked that key
trinque: lol
adlai: of course i did.
trinque: and it didn't work.
adlai: free testing is worth what you pay for it!
trinque: truly a professional troll
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.000744 = 17.2608 BTC [-] {5}
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
adlai: who knew losing backups could be this fun
mircea_popescu: !up probobonobo
mircea_popescu: hey cazalla : i need a noob crafter to make me a tool in eulora, hopefully get some recipe copies.
mircea_popescu: you game to log in in a coupla hours ?
adlai scratches head at deedbot-
adlai: this bug is actually far stranger than i can even imagine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.00074325 = 31.8111 BTC [-]
trinque: adlai: not really that weird; gpg ignores data outside a header/footer pair
trinque: including a dangling header where the footer is chopped off
trinque: and my regex is currently quite happy to do so for wrapped messages
trinque: fixing atm
adlai wonders whether there should be any way to "cancel" a deed
adlai: (before the hourly commitment)
adlai: deedbot-:
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
adlai blames the long stressful day at the troll mines
adlai: !down adlai
cazalla: mircea_popescu, don't have a client to do so (nuked windows drive with the win ver)
cazalla: and couldn't get it running on ubuntu last i tried
mircea_popescu: ah sucks
cazalla: is current?
assbot: Ubuntu - Eulorum ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ye
cazalla: i'll give it a whirl
mircea_popescu: cool cause if i don't manage to get this old screens recipe replicated we're sol without screens.
mircea_popescu: only one in entire game so far.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00074894 = 29.1338 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Teen prosecuted as adult for having naked images – of himself – on phone | US news | The Guardian ... ( )
BingoBoingo: cazalla: That was already covered on qntra a while back
cazalla: same kid?
BingoBoingo: Yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25450 @ 0.00074916 = 19.0661 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: the fuck is the guardian recycling 3 week old stories for then? (you know, i also read about the ISIS dinar again this morning)
BingoBoingo: Because they have to
cazalla: common malware story so not really qntra worthy but still lulzy "We contacted the police and they told us there was nothing they could do. We contacted the Federal Police and they told us there’s nothing they could do either"
assbot: Client risk as hackers blackmail sex shop ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00074994 = 35.8846 BTC [+] {3}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Apple App Store Suffers Sustained Attack, Spreads Malware to Customers -
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: 4GB RAM, SSD drive, the works.
asciilifeform: battery back up, locked room with camera, come and get it motherfuckers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26366 @ 0.00075011 = 19.7774 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Beautiful asciilifeform
asciilifeform: Bucephalus:
mircea_popescu: win.
asciilifeform: now this is not an ideal box, it is on a 20/5 commercial pipe.
asciilifeform: but it will have to do its duty until there is a fleet of serious iron, somewhere.
asciilifeform: bbl.
mod6: nice, thanks asciilifeform!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00075029 = 13.6928 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00075068 = 17.3407 BTC [+]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 8.27551304 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
asciilifeform: full height, 17 connections
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00075127 = 36.5117 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00074668 = 13.8509 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell adlai what was all that about ...?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !rated adlai
assbot: You have not rated adlai.
asciilifeform: !rate adlai 2 horseman of common lisp robopocalypse
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
Birdman: Im looking for a staker on swcpoker, here are two graphs showing my statistics there
assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( )
assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( )
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.adlai.2:40d46c35ffca536c78fd9ee8b58a1c7337964c9754adb15e2a76a22e582f7944
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for adlai with note: horseman of common lisp robopocalypse
asciilifeform: Birdman: what's a 'staker' ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: your naming conventions are lovely
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: which ?
Birdman: Someone to invest the money to bank roll my play for expected profits
ben_vulpes: bucephalus, zoolag, ignatius
asciilifeform: people take investors to play poker now ?!!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: incitatus
asciilifeform: caligula's horse.
ben_vulpes: Birdman: has swc solved collusion?
ben_vulpes bows
asciilifeform: and senator.
ben_vulpes: i need ecc meatram
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have some but don't know where to buy it
asciilifeform: not sure if it is made any more.
ben_vulpes: o.O
ben_vulpes: wat
asciilifeform: aha i think it was .su only product..
asciilifeform: l0l
ben_vulpes: i dun even b'leev u
Birdman: They are not in the wot and dont use any authentication, though tournaments usually make collusion not profitable
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: familiar with 'caribou mathematics contest'?
asciilifeform: can't say i am
ben_vulpes: Birdman: i'm taking the girl on a cross-state line run, but please tell me later how tournaments make collusion unprofitable
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: came in on the local homeschooling wotwire
asciilifeform: i assume it is an olympiad of one kind or another ?
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes off to taunt feds
mircea_popescu: man that eth bet :D
asciilifeform: srsly
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> people take investors to play poker now ?!! << this is older than litecoin.
asciilifeform: why would anyone take this up
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the world works.
asciilifeform: evidently!
mircea_popescu: nevada casinos gross in the billions. it's a distraction.
asciilifeform: no that part makes sense
asciilifeform: but why would anyone pay some other fella to play poker ~in his stead~
mircea_popescu: why would someone pay some other fella to fuck his wife in his stead ?
mircea_popescu: if you'll excuse the pon.
asciilifeform: so the equivalent in card game would be... a puckold ?
mircea_popescu: it's a distraction.
mircea_popescu: lol.
asciilifeform: (pockold? cackold?)
mircea_popescu: nono because queen of spades.

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