Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-09-13 | 2015-09-15 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00074203 = 19.1444 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes is enjoying the anton_osika thread
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-09-2015#1272924 << i have always wondered! why do mircea_popescu's contracts /always have names/ in addition to the fingerprints?
assbot: Logged on 13-09-2015 22:05:59; nubbins`: your name is irrelevant
mircea_popescu: and go to great lengths to manually bypass barriers << incidentally, this is why a b-a linux is such a low hanging fruit.
mircea_popescu: but for some reason either the histeresis is great or outright resistance to the notion is great.
ben_vulpes: what hysteresis
mircea_popescu: in between me pointing out gentoo does not actually work and alf getting off his "works for me" horse.
mircea_popescu: there's gotta be a complete bitcoin distro. kernel and all.
ben_vulpes: heh--pull a foundation and start with an ancient kernel?
mircea_popescu: maybe. but ancient crypto is useless.
mircea_popescu: modern crypto useless for the reason stated
ben_vulpes: well, "ancient".
mircea_popescu: there's going to have to be a bisection and it's hard work, of the "do not bother me for three days" sort.
ben_vulpes: if it boots emacs, i'm in.
ben_vulpes: "the programmer's portable os"
mircea_popescu: <gernika> I feared as much. << the objection is valid, and in no way different from "you can have a working os, i sort-of have one here, it's made out of 400 pieces and i could maybe remake it if i had a week off."
mircea_popescu: quite a ways to go to what we actually want to have.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273642 << this is true. i would estimate a ~passible~ clump of v-math to be in between 20 and 50mn nodes, each of which requiring the reasonable student an hour to an evenings' study.
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 02:34:49; asciilifeform: problem is, most folks asking for this kind of thing, have vastly overoptimistic idea of what can be expected from a single book and a reasonable amount of study.
mircea_popescu: wich strictly means that a) mathematics is not open to human beings and b) even ultraspecialised approaches are pushing the proposition.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 16 * 365 * 50
gribble: 292000
mircea_popescu: maybe 1% or so is the best you can hope for, as a human.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that until and unless someone takes a serious byte out of making the damned thing, it's kind of hard to guess if and how the graph is actually summarizable, or w/e the term is.
mircea_popescu: but 3k years' worth of bumbling efforts at "teaching" math by ear certainly never got very far with it.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273646 << algebra is easily the hardest part. not even just because the notion of number is easily the most complex abstraction we've invented to date.
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 02:41:49; *: gernika aims lower. would be satisfied to be able to reconstruct algebra on death bed.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: << i have always wondered! why do mircea_popescu's contracts /always have names/ in addition to the fingerprints? << array of conveniences. your govt id includes your name aside from your number too.
thestringpuller: !gettrust kruzt
assbot: kruzt is not registered in WoT.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski !לשׁנה טובה
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 13-09-2015 22:51:17; mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ask her!
thestringpuller: ^^^ danielpbarron
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> there's gotta be a complete bitcoin distro. kernel and all. << What, rotor stopped making enough Linux?
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: "the whole point of the last month of pregnancy is to make the idea of childbearing very appealing"
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: childbearing seems unappealing to me
ben_vulpes: the things women generally enthuse about doing to cocks doesn't appeal to me either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112414 @ 0.00074104 = 83.3033 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: like hitting dudes in the balls? that isn't very fun either.
ben_vulpes: no man, like sucking cocks and bearing children.
thestringpuller: how are those two things related?!?
ben_vulpes: things women do that i don't!
thestringpuller: being on the male side of child bearing is the unappealing part i was referring to! lol
thestringpuller: i would need 9 months of xanex for that
thestringpuller: i actually don't think all the xanex in the world would help
mircea_popescu: what about xanax ?
ben_vulpes: it's great - a whole new world of indignities and hilarities to enjoy the spectacle of
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76300 @ 0.00074034 = 56.4879 BTC [-] {4}
cazalla: fluffypony, do you know "Francois Harris the founder of Bitcoinzar"
assbot: Education is the big hurdle blocking Bitcoin growth in Africa - Memeburn ... ( http://bit.ly/1O9Y2Yz )
cazalla: and here i thought it was money, or lack of it
fluffypony: cazalla: he follows me on Twitter and we've pm'd a bit, don't know him outside of that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9209 @ 0.00074838 = 6.8918 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1O9YKF1 )
punkman: "The Department of Education calculated the percentage of students at each college who earned more than $25,000 per year, which is about what high school graduates earn. At hundreds of colleges, less than half of students met this threshold 10 years after enrolling"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5481 @ 0.00075932 = 4.1618 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88319 @ 0.00075998 = 67.1207 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40449 @ 0.00076056 = 30.7639 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63000 @ 0.00075879 = 47.8038 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: punkman: College loans maybe the greatest scam yet.
thestringpuller: Go to school work for school for cheap. Pay back loans for years to come.
thestringpuller: all whilst still poor
punkman: and still uneducated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97353 @ 0.00076118 = 74.1032 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 235593 @ 0.00076292 = 179.7386 BTC [+] {9}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101100 @ 0.00075879 = 76.7137 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00075879 = 17.3004 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13905 @ 0.00076577 = 10.648 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: holy shit punkman
mircea_popescu: are those "hundreds of colleges" pretty much community "colleges" etc ?
mircea_popescu: and "college graduates" earning 2k per month is bs, incidentally. that's what the living wage is.
mircea_popescu: highschool grad in unionized job (police, plumbing, roadwork, you name it) does iirc 30-40k in his 30s.
punkman: it did mention barber/cosmetology "colleges" were included
mircea_popescu: seems there's ~7k colleges in the us. "hundreds" is meaningless in this context.
assbot: Fast Facts ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5TSO6 )
mircea_popescu: (note the .asp for a lol.)
punkman: mircea_popescu: Title IV are just the ones the gov will loan you money to attend
BingoBoingo: ASP, Adobe cold fusion, nothing more toxic than an American college website
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23293 @ 0.00075873 = 17.6731 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00076582 = 17.9968 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4426 @ 0.00076599 = 3.3903 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00074461 = 51.6015 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 750 @ 0.00467408 = 3.5056 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Julia Tourianski: State Control Perpetually Increasing Until Collapse - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lt7gZT )
mircea_popescu: apparently she's reading the logs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48500 @ 0.00074186 = 35.9802 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172957 @ 0.00076666 = 132.5992 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90223 @ 0.00076623 = 69.1316 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14274 @ 0.00076832 = 10.967 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: And reddit runs out of node budget https://archive.is/AAWwW
assbot: Anyone running a full node for their apps/websites? Where do you store it? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1iplUuj )
shinohai: I have a paltry node budget, I run it anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141483 @ 0.00074961 = 106.0571 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Nobody wants to go to the US Open anymore now that Serena is out ... ( http://bit.ly/1KNkx53 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76313 @ 0.00073824 = 56.3373 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 241150 @ 0.00077003 = 185.6927 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHJibg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63800 @ 0.00073927 = 47.1654 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 05:06:53; thestringpuller: ^^^ danielpbarron
shinohai: Well can't say danielpbarron hasn't done his part for the cult.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110546 @ 0.00074261 = 82.0926 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48858 @ 0.00073816 = 36.065 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152585 @ 0.0007505 = 114.515 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119200 @ 0.00073708 = 87.8599 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Malcolm Turnbull defeats Tony Abbott in Liberal leadership spill to become prime minister ... ( http://bit.ly/1M6nD1g )
cazalla: this time it's gonna be different! this guy we can count on to lead the country unlike 28 people before him
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's fortunate that moore's law hosts nodes for free in moore's legal datacenter
mircea_popescu: otherwise i dunno what they'd do.
mircea_popescu: lead it to where ?
davout: ohai asseteristas
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 215950 @ 0.00073621 = 158.9845 BTC [-] {6}
funkenstein_: !up HeySteve
HeySteve: hey, thanks funkenstein_
HeySteve: having connection difficulties lately so I haven't been doing the manual sign in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82300 @ 0.00075478 = 62.1184 BTC [+] {3}
funkenstein_: the case of anton_osika reminds me of the post-resleeving identification ceremony from the takeshi kovacs novels.
funkenstein_: a signed statement from "enough" people in counterparty's WOT that the spirit of key A now resides in key B would be the only way
funkenstein_: but we all learn from these things so I say thanks to all involved
funkenstein_: "luke, I am your father". "No it's not true, sign a statement with his key bitch"
mod6: heheh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132061 @ 0.00075821 = 100.13 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10189 @ 0.00075926 = 7.7361 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00075926 = 7.0611 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59306 @ 0.00076059 = 45.1076 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/KCcGbJ5.png <<< Insight on refugee crisis
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47476 @ 0.00077195 = 36.6491 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: !up Martin777
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11824 @ 0.00077224 = 9.131 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: shinohai in other news, the isis throughput seems to be about 3%.
mircea_popescu: (isis has more "boots on the ground" in the immigrant wave than the us has in the entire middle east.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72600 @ 0.00077225 = 56.0654 BTC [+]
shinohai: Doesn't surprise me a all.
shinohai: Also, if the anton_osika guy reads these logs, please note there is no such word in the English language as "unprobabilistically "
shinohai: !up anton_osika
anton_osika: Thanks.
anton_osika: I do read. I also have a talent for getting into tip-of-the-tounge moments, in such cases I make up words...
kakobrekla: we dont have a problem with words here but with concepts.
anton_osika: I tried to refer to the concept of 5 sigma, etc.
shinohai: When you PM'd me and said you had your "PGP keys unprobabilistically stolen" I was left scratching my head.
shinohai: New tyoe of theft to me.
anton_osika: Well the "unprobabilistic" part was my strong belief that my keys were fail-safe recoverable.
anton_osika: Hope it clarifies.
shinohai: If you put money in your wallet and someone takes it out, do you think that is also fail-safe recoverable?
shinohai: Or say, the keys to your apartment?
trinque: anton_osika: that is not what that word means
assbot: Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Credit Suisse, and Bank of New York Mellon agree to hand over decrption keys to Symphony - New York Business Journal ... ( http://bit.ly/1KaGEPm )
trinque: you are looking for "improbably"
shinohai: Bet this will be interesting.
mircea_popescu: he was trying to say "improbably" o noes!
mircea_popescu: anyway, bbl!
shinohai: o/ cheers
trinque: was just halpin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43691 @ 0.00077349 = 33.7946 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: !up anton_osika
anton_osika: Funkenstein_ wrote a nice line above.
anton_osika: Regarding WoT.
thestringpuller: So the people in #bitcoin-xt have some terrible links in their WoT
thestringpuller: i'm tempted to run a graph on the nicks in #bitcoin-XT and see which ones of them are connected to known scammers
trinque: ^ sounds like an awesome idea.
anton_osika: If, hypothetically, people agree that I would have enough proof of being the long party, in this contract: http://pastebin.com/NbPrZS9A
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Future Delivery Contract Fo - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1QiQ39M )
anton_osika: Would people here give their WoT that this long party should receive the delivery?
trinque: anton_osika: I think those here are tired of the pleading; I didn't voice you for that. And no, we do not vote on mircea_popescu's actions.
anton_osika: And the verification of the identity I am thinking of is not so hypothetical.
trinque: and the contact is solely with him; not with the WoT
anton_osika: trinque: I am sorry if that is what is seems.
trinque: *contract
thestringpuller: this sounds like when Usagi lost his/her backups
anton_osika: Well the only thing he wants to defend is his WoT - so the opinions of other is relevant in these kind of contracts.
trinque: !down anton_osika
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 229 @ 0.00488017 = 1.1176 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: can someone fill me in on what's going on?
trinque: thestringpuller: in teh logz from yesterday
thestringpuller: dude wrote GPG contract, contract was partially executed, dude lost his key to prove delivery?
trinque: yar
shinohai: He made a deal will the devil betting on Ethereum anyway.
thestringpuller: why not just build delivery into the contract as a fail-safe...
shinohai: fluffypony: "Seriously, wtf. even a retard can put the wallet.dat on DropBox and be 99% safer than this." <<< LOLZ
fluffypony: good times
thestringpuller: WoT seems to work as advertised. Usagi completely vanished after Pete's assassination of him.
shinohai: I wish I had known about this place during the TradeFortress brouhaha. I called that one 6 months prior.
thestringpuller: That wasn't nearly as bad as pirate collapse.
thestringpuller: !ticker h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00841001 / 0.00912056 / 0.00999999 (290 shares, 2.64496239 BTC), 30D: 0.00781001 / 0.00955043 / 0.01150000 (636 shares, 6.07407109 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00076906 = 65.1394 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: how goes the uranium mines mr. ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00077576 = 23.7383 BTC [+]
ascii_field: thestringpuller: working on the five-year plan
ascii_field: '"To address cyber-security concerns, we ensure that all your conversations are transmitted in encrypted form," he wrote. "The key is that we do this without compromising ease of use and content discovery." As we now know, at least part of that "content discovery" now includes investitgators' searching for evidence of malfeasance.'
ascii_field: glorious.
ascii_field: why would anyone use 'symphony' chat thing after this... ?
ascii_field: (or, for that matter, ~before~)
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273660 << this is monumentally harder than mircea_popescu seems to think it is. primarily on account of graphics.
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 04:52:47; mircea_popescu: there's gotta be a complete bitcoin distro. kernel and all.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273661 << i personally won't work on anything which i can't use. and if it can't drive a 10,000 x 5,000 pixel array at reasonable frame rate, AND simultaneously process blocks, etc. then I WON'T USE IT
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 04:53:09; ben_vulpes: heh--pull a foundation and start with an ancient kernel?
kakobrekla: headless + line printer output
kakobrekla: like in the olden days
thestringpuller: dark ages
ascii_field: kakobrekla, thestringpuller: go buy pdp-11 on ebay, use.
ascii_field: it is waiting.
kakobrekla: nothing in working conditions it seems.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: plenty of microvaxen
kakobrekla: it comes down to the question if the 'bitcoin distro' is suppose to handle blockchain (and thus be connected via dangerwire)
ascii_field: kakobrekla: mircea_popescu's implication was that it ought to be a sane continuation of what gentoo once was (a linux for literate folks to use)
ascii_field: rather than a special-purpose item like rotor
ascii_field: something that, were it to exist, would let #b-a folks set the bozo bit on the rest of the so-called linux komyooniti
thestringpuller: sounds like something those anti-systemd forkers of debian would get behind
thestringpuller: devuan i think it was called
ascii_field: debian was never it.
thestringpuller: yea that's prob why all the cool kids were using Arch Linux in school
ascii_field: thing is, the kernel per se has cancer and leprosy
thestringpuller: so do most things, how do you rip out the tumor without killing the patient?
ascii_field: i say - you can't.
ascii_field: not unless you can produce hardware.
thestringpuller: wish i could find that thread you spoke on about how modern jet production is inaccessible to non USG-tied entities.
ascii_field: thestringpuller: not just production. OPERATION.
ascii_field: as in, if you got one as a birthday gift, it would be good for perhaps one or two sorties, if that.
ascii_field: and it wasn't usg in particular, but industrial slave empires in general
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82145 @ 0.00076771 = 63.0635 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: interesting side note: it makes it easy to erase technology from the face of the earth if constructed this way...i.e. sr-71
ascii_field: aha. it is gone.
thestringpuller: or saturn-v
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 04:54:13; mircea_popescu: there's going to have to be a bisection and it's hard work, of the "do not bother me for three days" sort.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273667 << if it addresses 128GB of ECC RAM, and drives my wall of 'eizo's, then i'm in.
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 04:54:44; ben_vulpes: if it boots emacs, i'm in.
ascii_field: assuming my hardware RAID cards continue to work
ascii_field: because else WHY THE FUCK DO I NEED IT
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273671 << the closest thing presently existing is 'mathematica'.
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 04:57:23; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273642 << this is true. i would estimate a ~passible~ clump of v-math to be in between 20 and 50mn nodes, each of which requiring the reasonable student an hour to an evenings' study.
ascii_field: this, incidentally, is ~the~ bar for formalization. IFF you can do it on a computer, then ~possibly~ you really have a formal handle on the mechanics. but NOT before then.
ascii_field: HENCE my almost life-long interest in 'computer algebra' machinery.
shinohai would love a bitcoin linux
ascii_field: shinohai: what do you actually expect from such a thing ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101350 @ 0.00076785 = 77.8216 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: ascii_field | kakobrekla: mircea_popescu's implication was that it ought to be a sane continuation of what gentoo once was (a linux for literate folks to use) << danielpbarron was able to produce something with my script
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: you can still build a sane gentoo these days
ascii_field: trinque: one can build a working gentoo, yes. on certain hardware, and if the gods smile on you
shinohai: ascii_field: A distribution specifically for use with realbitcoin with no unnecessary fluff
ascii_field: ~i~ can. trinque apparently can. mircea_popescu iirc was not able to. and hanbot also did not.
ascii_field: shinohai: this is not what mircea_popescu was asking for
trinque: that script I wrote approaches a gentoo installer
trinque: the funny business is all in simple things like partitioning and installing the bootloader, pieces I bet could be lifted from debian's installer
ascii_field: trinque: thing is, if it doesn't do x11 on ARBITRARY DISPLAY then it WON'T be my workstation. but if it DOES do x11, then it is not shitgnomery-proof
ascii_field: same for recent kernel
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, that is the rub; you have to have all modules built and an initrd that tries to load them all
trinque: "genkernel"
trinque: gives you what the livecd has
ascii_field: trinque: my understanding is that mircea_popescu would like a linux that is analogous to what we did with therealbitcoin. where the tree is frozen, all arguably-superfluous things are jettisoned, and any further changes must come from wot folk.
trinque: right, that's a hell of an exercise ball
kakobrekla: imma guess we are phucked without standard hw. also phucked with (for other obvious reasons)
ascii_field: notice that NOTHING stops anybody from going to the scrapyard, digging up a pentium-ii, and booting up, e.g., prehistoric slackware on it.
thestringpuller: well I did that recently, slackware was neat back int he 90's
shinohai: trinque is the man for making that script. It made more sense to me than the mountain of info from the official site.
shinohai: Helped me wrap my head around the build steps.
ascii_field: thing is, if it won't ~correctly~ build x11, emacs & its dependencies, etc. - it is not a workstation linux.
ascii_field: it it ~does~ but uses gentoo's portage, it is a gentoo.
asciilifeform: !up anton_osika
trinque: shinohai: the handbook is a piece of shit
trinque: I haven't looked at it in years
ascii_field: anton_osika: i cannot help you even ~if~ i wanted to.
shinohai: Agreed trinque, which is why I never tried Gentoo until you came along.
trinque: I'm sure a day will come when my particular recipe stops working
trinque started openbsd-quest a while back
anton_osika: ascii_field: I just needed some clarification while the gentleman MP is gone.
ascii_field: trinque: i played with openbsd for a while and then got fed up with the dependency resolver retardation.
ascii_field: trinque: if it cannot compile emacs without building 'dbus', then it can GO TO HELL
trinque: ascii_field: pkg_add did seem to pull in goddamned everything
trinque: there was a project a while back to get portage on openbsd
trinque: stalled iirc
ascii_field: what the fuck would be the point.
ascii_field: use gentoo then.
trinque: no monstrosity of linux kernel
ascii_field: the monstrosity is ultimately from the hardware nonuniformity.
ascii_field: attempting to address the kernel bloat without somehow magicking this away, is idiocy.
ascii_field: and i personally am NOT interested in a lowest-common-denominator PIECE OF SHIT
kakobrekla: why i mentioned standard hw.
kakobrekla: like apple does, baiscally all the same hw.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50400 @ 0.00077585 = 39.1028 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: but if it doesn't do 10GB ethernet, hardware raid, gigantic display, etc. - it can go to hell.
trinque: openbsd kernel seems to lack all the virtualization, containerization, ...
trinque: while providing pretty good hardware support
ascii_field: not good enough.
ascii_field: i couldn't even get pcmcia to work reliably on it.
ascii_field: on a perhistoric laptop, no less.
ascii_field: *prehistoric
ascii_field: and until it builds x11 emacs without dbus and related idiocy, openbsd is WORTHLESS to me.
ascii_field: for something touted as 'de-shitgnomized' unix, openbsd is uncommonly eager to pull the crud along
ascii_field: poetteringisms, drepperisms, the whole lot.
trinque: openbsd + V repo of standard issue tools, and forget ports
trinque: I built my own emacs by hand on the openbsd box I put together
trinque: *that* someone (maybe I) would be willing to maintain, but not a whole OS somebody else built
ascii_field: trinque: if i wanted to build things by hand, and resolve dependency hells by hand, i'd be using buildroot linux.
trinque: didn't propose that; proposed a V repo of tools deps and shell scripts
ascii_field: 'want a glass of beer? here's a pile of sand, some hops, some barley'
trinque: lol
trinque: "wait a while"
ascii_field: trinque: for the 50,000 or so packages which i use ?!?!!
ascii_field: who will maintain them? you?
trinque: obviously cannot solve the whole world at once
ascii_field: then it does me no good.
thestringpuller: need more cult members
thestringpuller: and additonal pylons
trinque: and fusion reactors
thestringpuller: and a touch of vespene gas
ascii_field: picture if someone offered to cut off your arms, but promised to regrow them 10x stronger cell by cell.
trinque: how fast?
trinque: haha
ascii_field: to be completed some time 20 years from now, if things go well.
ascii_field: and gathers enough interest. etc.
thestringpuller: can we be in cryo sleep until then?
thestringpuller: well that's no fun
trinque: !up ascii_field
punkman: !s broomstick
assbot: 16 results for 'broomstick' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=broomstick
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8285 @ 0.00076506 = 6.3385 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: aka the 'no, mr bond, we expect you to DIE!' school of problem-solving.
trinque: I'd build a dedicated box solely for using gossipd, browsing the WoTnet, running bitcoind, and very little else
ascii_field: trinque: this is not a workstation. and arguably it does not need a unix at all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103881 @ 0.0007542 = 78.3471 BTC [-] {5}
ascii_field: the correct thing to do with each of those programs is to de-unixize and eventually de-os-ize them.
trinque: yeah that makes sense
punkman: need more harems
trinque: ascii_field: I found two fabs that will do small production runs, probably ones of which you're already aware
ascii_field: trinque: did you also find 100M usd in your sofa cushion ?
trinque: price point of one was far lower than that according to various internet chatter
trinque looks for the links
ascii_field: trinque: you must realize, it takes dozens of shots
punkman: did the various internet chatters make anything?
ascii_field: plus it ain't happening in my spare time.
trinque: mosis.com was the one I found somebody talking about getting a run done for a few k
ascii_field: what does a few k get you?
ascii_field: last i saw, it gets you NO MOUNTING (you need a cleanroom of your own to mount the dies), NO TESTING, and 1970-level transistor counts.
assbot: hdl - How much does it cost to have a custom ASIC made? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1QAHo2z )
trinque: guy claims 3k for 40 chips at CMP
trinque: http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/ << goes down to 65nm but surely vastly more expensive
assbot: CMP - Products :: IC's Manufacturing ... ( http://bit.ly/1NrZTGp )
ascii_field: trinque: traditionally these fabs neither package, nor test.
ascii_field: need a clean room and full-time staff to make use of the output.
trinque: ascii_field: also we're down to 100mn for a lisp CPU now?
trinque ducks
ascii_field: and it takes a dozen runs or more, to arrive at a usable chip.
ascii_field: trinque: what difference does it make to you, 100 or 500
ascii_field: it ain't happening.
ascii_field: btw, does everyone understand what 'no test' means ?
ascii_field: it means that you can get a crate of bricks
trinque: sure, they fab the thing then throw it at you
ascii_field: and it counts as fulfilling the contract.
ascii_field: potentially ad infinitum.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50875 @ 0.0007503 = 38.1715 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: trinque: 'mosis' does apparently offer packaging.
ascii_field: but it is very clear, from their www, that it is a 'if you have to ask for prices, you can't afford this' affair.
trinque: several sources online chattering about mosis being in the "several 10s of k" range
ascii_field: per shot ?
ascii_field: how many transistors on the die?
trinque: trying to find a source worth linking, but yes, they're not volunteering info on the site
trinque: two others are xfab and lfoundry apparently
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Microsoft is downloading Windows 10 to your machine 'just in case'- The Inquirer ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ns1wUH )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: 'MICROSOFT HAS CONFIRMED that Windows 10 is being downloaded to computers whether or not users have opted in.
ascii_field: MICROSOFT HAS CONFIRMED that Windows 10 is being downloaded to computers whether or not users have opted in.
ascii_field: An INQUIRER reader pointed out to us that, despite not having 'reserved' a copy of Windows 10, he had found that the ~BT folder, which has been the home of images of the new operating system since before rollout began, had appeared on his system. He had no plans to upgrade and had not put in a reservation request.'
ascii_field: ^ Run Moar Winblowz!
trinque: nsa must have something really good in there
ascii_field: trinque: no secret what
ascii_field: trinque: it is an openly-advertised (read the fine print) back orifice
trinque: yeah, have seen re: "telemetry"
ascii_field: 'He continued: “I know of two instances where people on metered connections went over their data cap for August because of this unwanted download. My own internet (slow DSL) was crawling for a week or so until I discovered this problem. In fact, that’s what led me to it. Not only does it download, it tries to install every time the computer is booted.”'
ascii_field: lulzy.
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: apple's turds do the same thing
chetty: perhaps this will backlash into getting more people off windows ...nah, I dream
ascii_field: trinque: officially advertise a built-in keylogger ?
trinque: they will pull down app updates automagically for you; maybe you have to turn it on
trinque: ascii_field: but no, this does take the bizarro-land cake
trinque: MS Sub7
trinque: chetty: the beoble loff 'im
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15302 @ 0.00074889 = 11.4595 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28957 @ 0.00074415 = 21.5484 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: only if linux had the same entertainment support windows has
thestringpuller: but tbh the drivers on linux suck balls
thestringpuller: trinque: based on current canon bizarro-land is also known as canada or as clark tells jimmy "Tell him is Bizzarro-America"
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhlb_t0QbQ << interesting interview with Putin; as an American I found it an interesting peek into the mind of the man
assbot: Answer to a question at St Petersburg International Economic Forum session - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KiwQzZ )
trinque: bit old, but didn't find in logs
trinque: good questions in particular about china
trinque: and Charlie Rose well represents the assumption that the rest of the world should see themselves as subject to the USA
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125100 @ 0.00075655 = 94.6444 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> need a clean room and full-time staff to make use of the output. << Cleanroom is the easy part. Staff and actually packaging are far harder
ascii_field: if easy - go, do.
BingoBoingo: Easy comparatively, IF level of cleanroom isn't spec'd
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: Spare bedroom, pull up carpet, make vestibule, vacuum obsessively, start negative pressure fans, vacuum some more, find iso guides to class your new cleanroom.
BingoBoingo: Much easier/cheaper than first person on staff
ascii_field: BingoBoingo has never set foot in actual 'clean room' has he.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: why not "steal" clean room
ascii_field: go, steal.
thestringpuller: i have...sort of...
thestringpuller: well people i used to go to school with
thestringpuller: they would use tools after hours without permission
thestringpuller: don't think this counts tho does it?
ascii_field: go and make equivalent of pentium 'after hours, without permission'.
ascii_field: why wait.
thestringpuller: maybe 6502
thestringpuller: pentium may require first born
ascii_field: go and sync blockchain on 6502.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81905 @ 0.00077623 = 63.5771 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: ascii_field: challenge accepted
ascii_field: if you can't verify a block in <10min GUARANTEED you don't have a computer.
ascii_field: you have a desk ornament.
thestringpuller: hey it'll be a fun experiment either way
thestringpuller: always wanted to own a C64-like machine
ascii_field: go buy a soviet z80.
ascii_field: prolly more honest than anything that will ever come out of a usg foundry.
thestringpuller: "they diddled are key generators!"
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, the only "entertainment support" you should need is four strings
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2PRZNAT.txt )
phf: anton_osika thread reminds me of thomas jefferson arguing for debt relief while heavily indebted, he also uses "this is best for the people" argument, with the main difference that the debt question was at the time open, where's what osika is arguing against is the core idea of gpg contracts. the point of the thread has been fully answered in gpg contracts article and with a poetic take in hanbot's story, both make the underlying uncompromi
phf: sing position very clear. i'm perplexed by osika's stuborn and persistent refusal to understand that what he's proposing goes contrary to core tenants, rather then some minor aside that needs further clarification.
ascii_field: tenets?
phf: aye, yes
ascii_field: but otherwise yes
ascii_field: !s special pleading
assbot: 4 results for 'special pleading' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=special+pleading
ascii_field: ^ mircea_popescu had a good piece on it
phf: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'nocrypto uses bits of C, similarly to other cryptographic libraries written in high-level languages. This was actually less of a performance concern, and more of a security one: for the low-level primitives which are tricky to implement and for which known, compact and widely used code already exists, the implementation is probably better reused. The major pitfall we hoped to avoid that way are side-channel attacks.' <<
ascii_field: mircea_popescu was right, you can instantly smell usg pheromone because it invariably forces the exact same retardation EVERY TIME
phf: i'm not sure if this is special pleading, or a case of a stranger using the technology he doesn't understand to shoot own foot. in the future perhaps expect more "but i'm me i have a passport from obama" people
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79200 @ 0.00076706 = 60.7512 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
deedbot-: [Qntra] Microsoft Preemptively Download Windows 10 On Machines - http://qntra.net/2015/09/microsoft-preemptively-download-windows-10-on-machines/
ascii_field: 'on machines' srsly ?
ascii_field: vs on what, on camels ?
ascii_field: imho worst title.
ascii_field: unrelatedly,
assbot: OCaml Language Sucks ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqMD9X )
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Would it really be accurate to describe the things as computers?
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: describe as what they are, win7 and 8 boxen
assbot: Microsoft Preemptively Download Windows 10 On Windows 7 and 8 Boxes | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqMSBP )
BingoBoingo: ^ fixed
ascii_field: i'd fix the url
ascii_field: but otherwise ok
BingoBoingo: Changing urls is problematic
phf: trinque: re lisp rps, you might want to look at cmucl's WIRE and REMOTE packages, https://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/cmu-user/ipc.html. while you can send sexps over the wire and slime/swank do it by sending readable forms in netstring format, you start running into issues when you need to ipc opaque blobs, like lambdas, hashtables or clos instances. cmucl's ipc solves all those issues, unfortunately married to cmucl. i think it woul
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1ic1JiP )
phf: d be an excellent exercise to make that code portable
phf: *lisp rpc
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: Practical Padding Oracle Attacks on RSA ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqPsI8 )
phf: i suppose one half of b-a should start on a linux distro and the other work on cl-emacs naggum always wanted *ducks*
ascii_field: the third half will write device drivers
ascii_field: the fourth half - reverse-engineer hardware.
phf: hardware we build from scratch, i'm assembling some reference material http://orig15.deviantart.net/58c6/f/2012/243/f/2/raudan_valmistus_by_jarkko1-d5d2l2v.jpg
assbot: How to make a AK-47 from a shovel? - Turborotfl.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1TtCOD7 )
assbot: A homemade toaster ... built from scratch! | Make: DIY Projects, How-Tos, Electronics, Crafts and Ideas for Makers ... ( http://bit.ly/1KaLD0v )
gernika: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-09-2015#1272365 << Incidentally I attempted to look up Mr. Blair in the 1958 ed. of Encyclopedia Brittanica and could find nothing on him. Apparently he was not yet notable by then. Would love to know what the editorial verdict would have been.
assbot: Logged on 13-09-2015 04:22:30; *: asciilifeform just popped a crate with ~2kg of orwell. before anyone asks, no, nothing like even 20% of his output is on the net. in the 1968 four-volume set, there is perhaps 90% of it.
ascii_field: gernika: a good bit of his non-fictional writing was not yet published then.
assbot: IRS: We're Too Corrupt And Incompetent To Handle $100 Million Checks | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQeRvL )
phf: ic fabrication lab из торопа. русская народная сказка.
gernika: ascii_field: Ah. 1984 had been out for almost 10 years by that point. Perhaps it had not yet had an impact either.
BingoBoingo: !up FullFlaps
FullFlaps: ohai, and ty BingoBoingo, davout here
BingoBoingo: Oh hai
FullFlaps: just wanted to say you might be missing an 's' in your last qntra piece title
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00076278 = 22.8071 BTC [-] {3}
FullFlaps: shouldn't it be 'Downloads'?
ascii_field: gernika: that was the problem. the book helped to bury him.
ascii_field: (it was not especially great, as a yarn)
shinohai: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: FullFlaps: fixed
gernika: ascii_field: strange to hear - as my memory of my experience reading it sometime in junior high school was that of complete enthrallment. But then again - who is a 13 year old to judge?
ascii_field: hey, same
ascii_field: but i'm told it doesn't work on adults.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Appeals Court Denies Dotcom Request for Extradition Hearing Delay - http://qntra.net/2015/09/appeals-court-denies-dotcom-request-for-extradition-hearing-delay/
mats: fun fact: gpg's serialization layer uses s-expressions rather than asn.1 and as a result, despite being hand-rolled in C, there doesn't appear to be any memory corruption in canonical mode
ascii_field: mats: aha. these are also exposed in libgcrypt.
BingoBoingo: !up gonz__
mats: yup
kakobrekla: !unrate yang
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d1917224ed91784c
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.unrate.yang:39c68f6fef50658b128028501351d116e3f4d444ab695a34228709009fd46c1a
assbot: Successfully unrated yang
shinohai: O.o unrate ouch
BingoBoingo: !up FullFlaps
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65500 @ 0.00076214 = 49.9202 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Vox Popoli: More social justice convergence in action ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQnHcV )
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 21:28:22; phf: hardware we build from scratch, i'm assembling some reference material http://orig15.deviantart.net/58c6/f/2012/243/f/2/raudan_valmistus_by_jarkko1-d5d2l2v.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85550 @ 0.00076939 = 65.8213 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32204 @ 0.00076807 = 24.7349 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15505 @ 0.00077007 = 11.9399 BTC [+]
assbot: 9001% Natty ... ( http://bit.ly/1icl6by )
BingoBoingo: lol trinque I've never tried to find the source for msot of these screencaps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00076807 = 34.0255 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Also trinque Did the server thief ever turn the box on?
trinque: neg
trinque: given they left the spare drives, I doubt they even knew what it was
trinque: "OH SHIT AN A/C UNIT!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56966 @ 0.00077007 = 43.8678 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Severe Hyponatremic Encephalopathy Following Bowel Prep For Colonoscopy - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1iKwtbs )
BingoBoingo: "A 79-year-old female presented to the emergency department (ED) from home with acute mental status changes over a period of one hour. Family reported this to be in the midst of bowel prep for a routine colonoscopy that was to take place the following day."
assbot: A-10s deploy to Romania for Operation Atlantic Resolve ... ( http://bit.ly/1icmmLY )
assbot: This Common ED Medication Can Set Off TSA Alarms - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1icmrzb )
BingoBoingo: "Use a bag to travel that has never been to the hospital and carry proof that you are a physician."
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu dulap contract finally expired ? box is dead.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00077012 = 8.3558 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.00076896 = 68.8219 BTC [-]
mats: ;;halfreward
gribble: Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Tue Jul 26 14:48:17 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 45 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds.
shinohai: Bitcoin Jesus comes down from heaven to spread the gospel to the darknet netizens https://redd.it/3kx2a
assbot: reddit.com: page not found ... ( http://bit.ly/1icnRcZ )
assbot: reddit.com: over 18? ... ( http://bit.ly/1icnSxt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32181 @ 0.00077012 = 24.7832 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25689 @ 0.00077012 = 19.7836 BTC [+]
trinque: shinohai: obama will surely pardon ulbricht after enough awareness is raised by these freedom fighters.
shinohai: Maybe if we get enough upvotes guise, the Judge will feel remorse and overturn the sentence!
shinohai: WE THE PEOPLES!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119842 @ 0.00076651 = 91.8601 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13709 @ 0.00077376 = 10.6075 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62428 @ 0.00077851 = 48.6008 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15524 @ 0.00077886 = 12.091 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9776 @ 0.00077974 = 7.6227 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: the one day for me not to have amphoros
thestringpuller: https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Omphalos << really wish I had a machine with that installed
asciilifeform: snore, yet-another-linux-with-buncha-pentest-toolz-preinstalled.
asciilifeform: his www has some good encyclopaedic material, though.
asciilifeform: and i think i may have used some of his exam prep material!
asciilifeform: back in the bad old days.
thestringpuller: he used to be my weed dealer for a good number of years
thestringpuller: eviljarred: we need to hang out a lot more
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i take it back, the linked item is new to me and potentially interesting.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00078027 = 27.9337 BTC [+] {5}
trinque: liburine << lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27250 @ 0.00077628 = 21.1536 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: sounds pretty useful
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-09-2015#1274238 "Freedom means a hardline anti-Apple stance. Fight the Disneyfication of computing!" <<< love this
assbot: Logged on 15-09-2015 01:18:17; thestringpuller: asciilifeform: https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Hack_on << ever heard of him
trinque: thestringpuller: why isn't this guy here?
trinque: I'd have said I wanna smoke a blunt with him even if he didn't call his site "dankwiki"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34254 @ 0.00077376 = 26.5044 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: trinque: cause he's elusive as fuck. I'd have to track him down between his meth binges in New York.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-09-2015#1273358 << because that's where they fill your rice bowl??? think, why did i go back to usa after conf3 ?
assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 00:59:09; mircea_popescu: the real question is why the fuck would she want to go back.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31700 @ 0.00078096 = 24.7564 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41447 @ 0.00077125 = 31.966 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: thestringpuller: with a little more meth in the WoT we might get that #b-a distro done!
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 therealbitcoin www points out, correctly, that certain patches (e.g., asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation.patch) are considered experimental; but asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.patch is pretty much mandatory - node will not sync without it, afaik.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00076774 = 35.2393 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, it was on 'suckless'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah, the proto-form of their "less unofficial" distro
asciilifeform: it is not hard to make a musl-based linux; i have this working with rotor
asciilifeform: the hard part is to make something that is a meaningful improvement in more than a strictly-hygienic sense
asciilifeform: that is, something that will run a workstation.
asciilifeform: AND without increasing daily work 1,001x-fold
asciilifeform: that is, on top of everything, it must contain something more or less equivalent to gentoo's 'portage'.
asciilifeform: and correctly resolve dependencies
trinque: shame that this "linux distro" work is expected to be free
trinque: I'd pay a guy like the gentleman that used to package Slackware a reasonable fee per release
trinque: I guess he still does, actually.
trinque: perhaps you could do a bidding system whereby packages are bid into the next release
trinque: heh, starts to look sort of like the blocksize thing and transaction fees
trinque: you could sell options.. perhaps someone wants to know he can get his package into the 3rd quarter release when it comes around, but his release date might slip
trinque dreams of market forces in computing again
asciilifeform: trinque: problem is that people are discrete.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6929 @ 0.00076756 = 5.3184 BTC [-]
trinque: asciilifeform: meaning how do you price that guy's hour vs this guy's, or something else?
asciilifeform: meaning that certain things can only be done effectively by folks who spend all or most of their time on them.
trinque: how else do you get someone to spend all their time on something than paying them?
asciilifeform: you pay.
trinque: I would agree it makes little sense to "maintain" a package for only a short duration contract
trinque: would take a longer interval of pondering to dream up a contract that'd work
asciilifeform: trinque: what are the actual economics you have in mind ?
asciilifeform: whereby this would be something other than a charity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8446 @ 0.00076756 = 6.4828 BTC [-]
trinque: that a company exists which sells contracts to maintain packages on a certain distro
trinque: there's some market within which to purchase and trade this company's time
asciilifeform: where does the money in this market come from ?
asciilifeform: let's work a small example
asciilifeform: how much, in whatever currency, would trinque personally contribute to this scheme ?
trinque: lets say for nginx; I would pay 1k/yr
asciilifeform: for what, pertaining to nginx ?
asciilifeform: just the fact of it continuing to build ?
trinque: building it against libressl on #b-a linux and expedient building and backporting of fixes
trinque: or whatever the conditions may be
asciilifeform: fixes as published where ?
asciilifeform: this presumably includes somehow meaningfully vetting the published patches ?
asciilifeform: because ~this~ is reasonably a $k or more ~per~, at quite threadbare american market rates
asciilifeform: everyone wants the moon and the sun, but no one wants to pay for the,.
trinque: could start with maintenance of the "ebuild" and nothing further; it really depends on the revenue
asciilifeform: what does 'maintenance of the ebuild' entail ?
trinque: and I don't see this working for a vast number of packages
trinque: asciilifeform: funneling upstream's work into released packages on #b-a linux
asciilifeform: see above
trinque: does this require a musl patch? does this ...
asciilifeform: if this is done blindly, it will be a disaster
asciilifeform: if it is done intelligently, it is easily $2-3K PER PATCH
trinque: if that's the cost, a contract to do the work would have to reflect it
trinque: and then if nobody buys it, doesn't get done
asciilifeform: the point i was trying to make,
asciilifeform: is that software is a lemon market.
asciilifeform: and that the things people turn out to be, in practice, actually willing to spend,
asciilifeform: barely buy a turd from the sidewalk.
trinque: yes, though I do continue to wonder how it'd do with an actual *market*
trinque: can't compare the cost of edible food with the turd
trinque: anyhow, perhaps someone will offer to sell his time maintaining something through the deedbot- buy/sell board I'm hacking on at the moment
asciilifeform: i'm sure that some idiot kid will eventually take your money.
asciilifeform: if 'someone' is all you need.
trinque: haha! well I know how to write a contract
trinque: and I don't pay kids up front
trinque: maybe anton_osika wants an honest way to earn back his 3 BTC, lol
trinque: I kid
trinque: one thing that clearly would not work is this sort of decentralized micro-payments bullshit I've heard proposed before
trinque: "gittip" or things in ideological proximity
trinque: because you're right, somebody doing a drive-by on nginx for a week is more harm than good
trinque: but without a market we have no fucking clue what the cost of this work is
trinque: rather, the price.
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