Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-05 | 2015-07-07 → ↓
mats: iirc second cousins are safe
mats: asciilifeform: after some consultation with my betters, one had this to say: "I'm not sure you can blame that on undefined behavior, except insofar as a SIGFPE is just as valid as nasal demons and such at that point."
mats: "it is not a case of the compiler doing something crazy because of undefined behavior."
asciilifeform: mats: fact of the matter is, the machine behaves in a way which will probably surprise most readers.
asciilifeform: that is worth rubbing in peoples' faces.
mats: yes
asciilifeform: whether the compiler, the os, or satan is to blame - is secondary
asciilifeform: if the effect were not so brute, it would've made a good star in an 'underhanded c contest' entry.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188872 << mistake to symlink 'the west is moribund' and 'la ilaha illa'llah Muhammadun rasul Allah' (tm) (r)
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 00:48:54; mircea_popescu: decimation their branchline is in no sense backwards. it is currently the consensus of thinking people (alf said "ru", but really, i agree, everyone with any sense agrees, ru is no determinant) that they are in point of fact broadly correct,
asciilifeform: very different items.
assbot: Inbreeding | West Hunter ... ( http://bit.ly/1NHAN4l )
decimation: asciilifeform: I've made those flamegraphs before, used 'perf' tool
decimation: it comes with kernel
decimation: but getting it to cough up full stacktraces is a pain in the ass
decimation: need libunwind, gdb configured correctly, etc
decimation: actually gdb isn't involved
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188887 << on top of this, the folks who informed 'amazon' and other usgtronic entities about the xen holes, etc. long before mortals were shown - are legitimate targets.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 01:24:01; mircea_popescu: "you wanted to benefit from responsible disclosure protections, you should have been in the wot" "but at the time i made that decision it seemed a no brainer, why expend the effort" "right. this is why you die."
decimation: ironically usg uses the same formula for 'extending protection'
asciilifeform: i personally refuse to make any distinction between someone who wrote, e.g., 'heartbleed', into existence - and some other fella who ~knew of it and didn't tell me~
asciilifeform: they are exactly the same to me.
decimation: even if done by mistake?
asciilifeform: how am i to believe this?
asciilifeform: every devil, great and small, held up by his hindlegs over the fire will say exactly same thing: 'mistake'
decimation: true.
decimation: then again, who are the innocents using openssl to secure themselves?
asciilifeform: at any rate, the offenders for this last item are known, habitual, and loudly unrepentant.
asciilifeform: what next, we are to care about the 'innocents' 'securing themselves' with winblows?
asciilifeform: the hell they rot in is a strictly voluntary place
decimation: well, then why not congratulate, rather than roast, said devil?
asciilifeform: decimation: notice that 'winblows' now includes much of the unixlike world, in practice.
asciilifeform: what i'd like to see happen is for all the poor schmucks who report, e.g., a 'xen' 0day, to 'cert' et al, to understand that they are ~weaponsmithing for usg for free~
asciilifeform: at the very least, ought to charge
asciilifeform: if 'selling the rope with which to be hanged'
decimation: even microsoft needs a tcp/ip stack - reminds me of your blog post on 'the burden of supporting all the world'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12448 @ 0.00052781 = 6.5702 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: what gets my goat are the constant pleadings for money money and power to do 'cyber'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00054986 = 8.0829 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: decimation: the process of crafting, concealing, and then digging up '0days' is extremely labour-intensive
asciilifeform: which also means that there is that much more to be embezzled via meta-armies of imaginary labourers
asciilifeform: just like an f-35 engine compressor made from monocrystalline shitanium with unobtainium alloy blades is far more lucrative than an ordinary steel one
asciilifeform: (because higher price tag + vapour delivery is far more lucrative than low + same vapour)
decimation: asciilifeform: this is why the ru military were able to make fighters that match nato's for orders of magnitude less cash
decimation: they only had to build planes, not employ zombies
decimation: or at least fewer, cheaper zombies
decimation: the supreme irony being that the story is that 'nato won' because of capitalist efficency
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6049 @ 0.00053927 = 3.262 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <mats> HT does 'hax for hire' as USG subcontractor. lulz. << mmmyeah
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah i know it should be doable.
mircea_popescu: maybne iof anyone feels like posting the link where doxygen / svg experts gather.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am deliberately trampling that convention. fuck them.
mircea_popescu: <mats> you'll not enjoy reading the key server code then << im kinda curious how this thing will go down :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is not practical to keep tb sized backups on webservers. make a local copy, put on torrents.
mircea_popescu: im sure it's there anyway, but hey.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> just think of the moral degeneration from ~that~ << those grapes aren't whine yet.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> very different items. << sure.
ben_vulpes: jesus shit i blink and y'all crap out 400 lines?
mircea_popescu: don't look at me, it's all them.
mircea_popescu: an' with that, im off. have a great 5th of july erryone.
decimation: ben_vulpes: I switched to erc, have seen the light
ben_vulpes: decimation: lmk if you come up with an acceptable bouncer situation.
decimation: tmux?
ben_vulpes: sitrep: freshly provisioned server builds boost, bdb and openssl w/out a hitch, barfs on compiling bitcoind because lacking i b'leev integer retardation patch
ben_vulpes: decimation: running more than one emacs chafes.
decimation: what os?
decimation: yeah that does suck I agree
ben_vulpes: gentoo.
ben_vulpes: decimation: have you looked into mosh?
decimation: is that one of those client/server deals?
ben_vulpes: can't say as i can tell from your question.
decimation: bouncer server, remote clients?
ben_vulpes: but it does new up a udp thinger.
ben_vulpes: ah no, it's a tmuxalike
decimation: oh wait is that the supposed ssh replacement
ben_vulpes: but not a wm-wannabe
ben_vulpes: more liek an ssh-wannabe
ben_vulpes: mnno, not replacement
ben_vulpes: but very good tool for persistent terminals on remote hosts.
decimation: interesting
decimation: yeah I get what you mean about more than one emacs
ben_vulpes: good with high latency, network-hopping, all of the travails of diginomad life.
decimation: want to cut/paste arbitrary things in emacs
ben_vulpes: i ran both znc and weechat as bouncers for a while
ben_vulpes: shit was wack.
decimation: heh yeah I looked at the znc config as said 'fuck this shit'
ben_vulpes: oh you rejected it before you figured out that editing the config files while the thing waas running would fly it straight into the wall at 0.8 mach?
decimation: I just didn't trust it by the smell
ben_vulpes: i'm saying that my nose ain't that good yet
decimation: heh do a few cycles in the gentoo barrel
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mircea_popescu an irc bouncer job advert wouldn't go amiss
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: or the gossipd thing
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> the irish have been flooding aussie shores for the past few years << ugh i met another ozzie today
ben_vulpes: decimation: re gossipd errything's gonna have to be reimplemented atop it
decimation: indeed
ben_vulpes: irc bouncer implementation's a good thing to have in the interim.
decimation: emacs-gossipd
ben_vulpes: "trivial", i'm sure
ben_vulpes: (emacs-gd, that is)
ben_vulpes: elisp!
ben_vulpes: it's lisp, right?
ben_vulpes: RIGHT
decimation: heh. I'm not much of a lisp guy, but the ones I know aren't a fan of emacs lisp
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> the irish have been flooding aussie shores for the past few years << met another ozzie this wknd
ben_vulpes: still not a fan.
ben_vulpes: caz passes, no idea why.
ben_vulpes: decimation: it's p barbaric
ben_vulpes: "poor man's lisp machine"
ben_vulpes: look i'm just trying to make a mil or 5 over here
decimation: yeah, I've seen the screenshots for 'zmacs'
ben_vulpes: no time for reimplementing elisp or...emacs even.
decimation: one day I will fire up that symbolics emulator
ben_vulpes: although a barebones lisp editor is tempting.
decimation: yeah I think I'm going to play with phf's blockchain code he wrote in lisp as an education
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> with a yo ho ho << and a bottle of fun!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00054986 = 3.794 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: decimation: take a look at binary-types, per asciilifeform's suggestion
decimation: okay, will do
decimation: by the way my stator node is slow as balls, I"m not sure if it's my machine or the node
decimation: it's taken like 8 hours to go 10k blocks
ben_vulpes: whose seed?
decimation: some random one on mircea's list
ben_vulpes: so you're not sure if node code, machine host or seed.
ben_vulpes: try herr popescus node or perhaps herr form's
decimation: yeah that's a good idea
ben_vulpes: testing this thing is a goddamn nightmare.
decimation: yes, you basically have to devote a fulll machine to it
cazalla: ben_vulpes, so you base an entire nation on the few you've met.. gee get a load of this racist
decimation: he's gonna complain about australian shitposting now
ben_vulpes: hey i'm an empiricist what do you want
ben_vulpes: well for as long as nobody here uses shithouse.tv nothing here can be considered actual shitposting.
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> cazalla: Comment deleted, just as I was about to make a witicism << witticism, like witty
cazalla: speaking of australia, our dollar is down to 5 year lows.. here's hoping it goes much lower http://i.imgur.com/FRus9l5.png
ben_vulpes: may you stay long when it's good for you and go short when it's good for you, caz
decimation: that means chinamen can pay less for your ores
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.000548 = 4.1374 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188136 << hm, this is an issue isn't it << srsly
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 11:18:09; punkman: on a related note, kinda annoying reading through logs and trying to read all those expired dpastes
decimation: Who do they think they are? snapchat?
decimation to bed
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/ << someone who knows, someone wh doesn't
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1IZRHHP )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34238 @ 0.00054802 = 18.7631 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (oop systems which aren't clos (or possibly smalltalk's, and generally meta-object-able) are like btc securities exchanges which aren't mpex.) << by virtue of living in the shit your whole life, you'll be able to read it.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks) << generally just the girls
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> they are exactly the same to me. << and your own zero days?
ben_vulpes: where arse those?
ben_vulpes: <decimation> heh do a few cycles in the gentoo barrel << tomorrow mayhap. tonight, the canadians have interesting ingestibles.
ben_vulpes: night!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00053927 = 10.8124 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44333 @ 0.00053927 = 23.9075 BTC [-]
cazalla: well Yanis Varoufakis fell on his sword, back to valve to make more hats i guess
punkman: wait wut?
punkman: he got the "no" he wanted
punkman: guess the job doesn't pay well enough
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00054101 = 3.2461 BTC [+]
assbot: Minister No More! | Yanis Varoufakis ... ( http://bit.ly/1H2uVPl )
punkman: "The Greek Premier Alexis Tsipras is suffering from Herpes Labialis due to the stress of the last days."
punkman: "I was running bitcoin core version 0.9 which accepted an invalid chain not adhering to the BIP66 protocol changes. This prompted me to upgrade immediately, however the new version is taking the already accepted blocks as already verified."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00053783 = 22.1586 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: punkman: Want to cover the latest stuff on the Greek beat?
jurov: <mircea_popescu> [20150706 01:30] btw, jurov, did you want some pogos shipped << yes davout offered but then went silent
punkman: BingoBoingo: was thinking of a "bailout timeline" thing after the dust settles
jurov: https://github.com/OpenGrok/OpenGrok/wiki/Comparison-with-Similar-Tools more lxr replacements, still does not even include doxygen
assbot: Comparison with Similar Tools · OpenGrok/OpenGrok Wiki · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1giMvYK )
jurov: and call graph not mentioned, too
cazalla: going on holidays.. don't forget your smoke grenades https://twitter.com/TSAmedia_LisaF/status/529714501663608832
cazalla: with the amount of confiscated hand guns featured on this twitter account, how the fuck does it not make the news erry day or is it simply the case they run the story every 3 months to keep to fresh
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021447 B (Total: 426.11 B). Delta: 0.15 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: Your actions are useless.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33950 @ 0.00053248 = 18.0777 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.000528 = 7.9464 BTC [-]
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189087 << i have funded znc-otr development with *gasp* my own bitcoins
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:11:49; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mircea_popescu an irc bouncer job advert wouldn't go amiss
jurov: and generally find whole znc thing palatable
jurov: !up rawplayer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.000528 = 31.4424 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55400 @ 0.00054108 = 29.9758 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00054464 = 8.6053 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00055101 = 21.1037 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: !up Drhelmut
Drhelmut: hello
Drhelmut: thx jurov, too lazy to voice myself
jurov: !up hdbuck
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20457 @ 0.00055282 = 11.309 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 03:14:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla, anybody else: can we get a mirror of that half-megatonne of shit ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17315 @ 0.00053781 = 9.3122 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38389 @ 0.00053956 = 20.7132 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33450 @ 0.00053244 = 17.8101 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00053694 = 6.7654 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00052437 = 34.4511 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how do you mean ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88450 @ 0.00053608 = 47.4163 BTC [+] {4}
mats: i just wanna read the code to their tools tbh
assbot: Hacking Team hacked, attackers claim 400GB in dumped data | CSO Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIWWBo )
mircea_popescu: was in logs, alf wanted it mirrored.
jurov: anyonen has working torrent/magnet link?
jurov: i found one, it's stalling
jurov: or anyone downloaded it already?
mircea_popescu confesses to not having bothered.
mircea_popescu: is it gone nao ?
kakobrekla: what is gone?
mircea_popescu: the 400gb thing
kakobrekla still has no idea wtf the thing is
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla apparently a dump of emails and other things
jurov: most of googling leads to a 10M PDF which i'm loathing to touch
kakobrekla: if only id been awake
jurov: they waited until noone was on watch in #b-a
assbot: Hacking Team wird zu Hacked Team: 400 GB interne Daten von Überwachungssoftware-Hersteller veröffentlicht | netzpolitik.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0fWpp )
jurov: but my deluge has serious problem digesting there linked torrent
jurov: gotta wait and see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00053741 = 7.685 BTC [+]
jurov: haha and vuze says "too large to be a torrent"
jurov: apparetly my pr0n toolchain of choice is insufficient for this task
mircea_popescu: maybe you should give that 10mb pdf a second look :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00054262 = 10.7439 BTC [+]
assbot: Finish your stuff - 250bpm ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0gwn5 )
jurov: kakobrekla: using "Ein Torrent"?
kakobrekla: fellows screenshot, from twitter mega torrent
assbot: dpaste: 1NYN9VX ... ( http://bit.ly/1LSg3te )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44913 @ 0.00053179 = 23.8843 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ok well since everyone thinks this so important ima have a machine contribute too, just fgor the seeding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4269 @ 0.00052534 = 2.2427 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: useless.
punkman: Passw0rd!!
williamdunne: I'll give it a seed
williamdunne: Anything interesting particularly yet?
mircea_popescu: The latest Tweets from Christian Pozzi (@christian_pozzi): "We are closing down. Bye Saudi Arabia. You paid us well. Allahuhakbah."
mircea_popescu: nothing much
williamdunne: kakobrekla: I particularly like that it includes their router password
williamdunne: Wonder if the source code is worth shit
mircea_popescu: not unless you get amir taaki to "open source" it.
assbot: The Women Who Secretly Keep ISIS Running - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0iHab )
mircea_popescu: sexual slavery eh.
williamdunne: Mmm struggling to find as much as a magnet link for this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63766 @ 0.00051937 = 33.1181 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: maybe magnet:?dn=Hacked+Team&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fcoppersurfer.tk%3A6969%2Fannounce&xt=urn%3Abtih%3AKFQDX74I4CQ3HOWTSYTBJF4JFHE5E2KV ?
williamdunne: Awesome, thanks
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189127 << kinda the way it goes neh ? project this large, be happy if you can get away with just one machine.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:19:08; decimation: yes, you basically have to devote a fulll machine to it
shinohai: @ jurov did u manage to get the torrent yet?
assbot: Extra Unofficial XKEYSCORE Guide — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1LSif40 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189129 << i'm not getting a load off him, what, that's what he got a wife for.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:20:41; cazalla: ben_vulpes, so you base an entire nation on the few you've met.. gee get a load of this racist
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189139 << ideally tho, dpaste is used for stuff like encrypted sends, in lieu of mail (which i love tbh, who knew irc + gpg obsoletes email!) or else for stuff like deedbotting. or generally, for spurious useless shit.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:28:03; ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188136 << hm, this is an issue isn't it << srsly
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189147 << honestly i'm kinda surprised usians even know what cousins ARE.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:35:37; ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks) << generally just the girls
mircea_popescu: "Yanis Varoufakis, Greece's embattled finance minister, has resigned his post,"
mircea_popescu: ah nm cazalla had it :p
mircea_popescu: "It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms."
mircea_popescu: eh fuck this guy. wtf is wrong with people.
mircea_popescu: real reforms = raping "the needy" with a pointed stick. it is morally wrong to be needy and full fucking stop.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64624 @ 0.00051488 = 33.2736 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: shinohai: yes, it works wrt rtorrent, 1% done
shinohai: Aweome jurov, that is a hefty dump for sure
mircea_popescu: curious if any qntrable articles come out of this.
jurov: will be in ~day
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 07:26:33; jurov: <mircea_popescu> [20150706 01:30] btw, jurov, did you want some pogos shipped << yes davout offered but then went silent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57200 @ 0.00051412 = 29.4077 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: if it's shipped from murica maybe it's better to disassemble them, mark as "parts" so that customs aren't tempted to "fix" the declared price
davout: o hey
davout: wasn't it only friday?
jurov: yes i immediately pm'd you never got a reply
shinohai is eagerly waiting on his pogo to arrive this week.
davout: i did take note, planning on sending them during the week
mircea_popescu: davout never mind, gotta send more into yurp anyway
mircea_popescu: keep yours, he's getting a fresh dozen
davout: whatever arbeitet
jurov: aha ok, thanks you all, send as many as you wish, i can forward them
mircea_popescu: jurov we see how this goes.
mircea_popescu: also you'll need ssds for 'em, best start collecting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 181850 @ 0.00051204 = 93.1145 BTC [-] {5}
jurov: lol, collect ssds from scrap?
mircea_popescu: i dunno. whatever works. but you'll want a dozen ssds to run a dozen pogos.
davout: with a bit of luck you'll be at the other end of the classical reddit: "o, i dumped my hdd with over 9000 btc on it and now i'm shoveling through the landfill"
jurov: oh. i was not under impression that i'll be running them all. but 4-5 can be defo arranged
mircea_popescu: well whoever runs htem
mircea_popescu: davout wouldn't that be something :D
williamdunne: davout: That actually resulted in a small army of people shovelling through a landfill
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00053558 = 13.3895 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22617 @ 0.00052932 = 11.9716 BTC [-]
assbot: Forget Bitcoin — What Is the Blockchain and Why Should You Care? | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1HHgk1p )
shinohai: ^Etherum lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18980 @ 0.00053793 = 10.2099 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5970 @ 0.00054468 = 3.2517 BTC [+]
williamdunne: intheorium
williamdunne: intheoreum
shinohai: I like your name for it better williamdunne
punkman: "European Parliament president: Need to urgently discuss humanitarian aid for Greece"
punkman: food drops?
williamdunne: shinohai: Can't take all the credit.. http://intheoreum.org/
assbot: InTheoreum ... ( http://bit.ly/1H502bP )
williamdunne: punkman: New Africa
shinohai: > Bob controls a worldwide public record of all transactions and is provably arbitrary. We call this record, the Bobchain.
shinohai: lolz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00054893 = 19.2126 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: "The only limit on what you can do with Intheoreum is Bob himself. The Bobchain is nothing more than a man in a room maintaining the state of the intheoreum network with Number 2 Pencil technology."
williamdunne: Intheoreum 1.0 will uses a cutting edge client/server hybrid peer to peer model. Bob is simultaneously your slave and your master. Our testing phase is complete and the Bobchain is live.
williamdunne: Just ask Bob if you can use it today.
williamdunne: "As worldwide interest in the Intheorum network increases success may overwhelm Bob alone. Foreseeing this problem we are planning Inthereum 2.0 technology to incorporate JENNYCHAIN, TIMCHAIN, SALLYCHAIN technology."
williamdunne: "Powered in Theory"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114950 @ 0.00055498 = 63.795 BTC [+] {6}
mod6: haha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42250 @ 0.00055649 = 23.5117 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.0005593 = 18.7366 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00055956 = 5.5396 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24151 @ 0.00055704 = 13.4531 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00055503 = 16.1236 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: and interestingly, a node '-connect'-ed to that one, is wedged at 363954 for 12+ hours now!
asciilifeform: these are running 100% identical 'stator'
punkman: asciilifeform: does it sit there doing nothing while wedged?
asciilifeform: punkman: no, megatonnes of tx garbage
asciilifeform: seeing many thousands of 'ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction type' also.
asciilifeform: and also, as before, ERROR: CheckBlock() : block timestamp too far in the future ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
asciilifeform: this appears to be the proximate cause of the wedge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35168 @ 0.00055985 = 19.6888 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: is anyone actively typing up a eulogy for varoufakis ?
pete_dushenski: ^cazalla BingoBoingo punkman ?
pete_dushenski: if not, i'm there
punkman: go ahead
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu that box really hasn't sufficient i/o to comfortably house phuctor and node. but i presently haven't any other place to put a node.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: is it a disk issue ?
asciilifeform: almost certainly
asciilifeform: and is anyone else experiencing a wedged 0.5.x node of the precise kind i have ?
asciilifeform: because what i am seeing has every mark of an orchestrated attack against degavinated network, under the smoke cover of the ph0rk aftermath
asciilifeform: atm i don't have access to a usable bitcoin node at all!
asciilifeform: wtf does that thing even care about timestamps
williamdunne: asciilifeform: What marks would these be?
williamdunne: Hmmm....
assbot: Bitcoin Network Stats - Coinbase ... ( http://bit.ly/1IEFuwm )
williamdunne: 0 Peers Connected
williamdunne: 17 available
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9898 @ 0.00055425 = 5.486 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.0005373 = 4.0835 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00054907 = 4.2553 BTC [+] {3}
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189283 << should I take them out of original packaging to save space? and jurov send me address whenever, encrypted with my key if you like
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 12:37:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ideally take them apart and send them as parts he says
mircea_popescu: but in any case yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course, if phuctor is this starved for io, would it be a good idea to move that thing to ssd ? maybe even raid ?
danielpbarron: apart as in unscrew the plastic shell of each unit?
mircea_popescu: i always thought ram and cpu are the constraints there
mircea_popescu: i dunno what he meant o.O
assbot: 'Adult preschool' charges hipsters to take naps, play with glitter glue - Trending - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1CWb4iY )
shinohai: I should be so clever as to come up with ideas like this, to relieve redditors of their monies.
mod6: haha
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntsideration : http://dpaste.com/2MQJ46C.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: and nice fix :)
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla and yours ! http://dpaste.com/2FKAE48.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: and with that, ima sign off for nao. ciao !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3719 @ 0.00053775 = 1.9999 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 278.01, Best ask: 278.11, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 278.13, 24 hour volume: 71997.83403132, 24 hour low: 262.2, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21718 @ 0.00053775 = 11.6789 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: yeah, who needs vwap for anything.
punkman: asciilifeform: wtf does that thing even care about timestamps << for adjusting difficulty
ben_vulpes: punkman: shouldn't that be a function of the number of blocks since the last difficulty adjustment?
kakobrekla: every 2016 blocks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00054389 = 11.0682 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44400 @ 0.00054778 = 24.3214 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: ben_vulpes: yes it is, but also time elapsed
punkman: ben_vulpes: network needs to know how long it's been in human time since last retarget
kakobrekla: speed is a function of time and distance, so you need to know how much time has passed in the 2016 blocks, right?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11433 @ 0.00052855 = 6.0429 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10632 @ 0.00052055 = 5.5345 BTC [-]
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189407 << probably should've been more specific - why does it matter if timestamp is 'too far in future' ?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 16:20:00; punkman: ben_vulpes: network needs to know how long it's been in human time since last retarget
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189377 << don't lose the steel plate that sits under the pcb - it's the only heatsink
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 15:03:24; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ideally take them apart and send them as parts he says
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189379 << not sure if it's solely disk, or also net, as of this moment. and simply getting 2nd box may be more cost-effective.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 15:03:54; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course, if phuctor is this starved for io, would it be a good idea to move that thing to ssd ? maybe even raid ?
punkman: ascii_field:rejects too far in the future because it wants to keep "network time" within some bounds
ascii_field: seems like logical thing to do would be to accept the block but not move the local epoch time if the block's time is an outlier ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00051493 = 9.2172 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: ascii_field: not sure what you mean with "but not move the local epoch time"
ascii_field possibly needs caffeine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138856 @ 0.00054257 = 75.3391 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: real-bitcoin/main.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH6YmO )
assbot: real-bitcoin/util.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH6YDd )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00055948 = 10.9099 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.00056184 = 26.2379 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html << I don't know why the conservatives with all their hate for welfare programs aren't pro-free-contraception
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH9CsN )
ben_vulpes: excellent long term cost reduction strategy imho
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: in other nyooz, my portable test node is synced.
assbot: rcs-backdoor/backdoor.rb at master · hackedteam/rcs-backdoor · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHcmpO )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42346 @ 0.00056446 = 23.9026 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what's your seeder IP again?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: this one is behind a nat atm
ascii_field: the other one is at nosuchlabs.com
ascii_field: but wasn't synced last i saw
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 12:15:59; mircea_popescu: not unless you get amir taaki to "open source" it.
ascii_field: looks like ^ happened, aha
ben_vulpes: stuck on a particular block, or still syncing?
mats: ain't the net a grand place?
assbot: core-linux/main.c at master · hackedteam/core-linux · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdB8H )
assbot: core-linux/melter/lib/packages at master · hackedteam/core-linux · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdEkS )
ascii_field: too many lulz
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: do cli flags get auto-munged into bitcoin.conf flags?
assbot: hackedteam/GeoTrust · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdKc0 )
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: whaddayamean
ben_vulpes: take your myip flag - is that automagically a .conf file option as well?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: iirc
ascii_field: gotta love how the morons had their private keys thrown to the wind
ascii_field: gotta also love the clean, well-commented (italian!) cpp
trinque: good morning all
ascii_field: not some sp4mz0r, just a normal software co.
ascii_field: they just happen to write turdware for usg.
ben_vulpes: stator syncing
ben_vulpes is late to the party. again.
trinque: anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?
ben_vulpes: but perhaps fashionably so?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61022 @ 0.00056481 = 34.4658 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: if not, we'll find out I suppose shortly
ben_vulpes: does anyone know at a high level how nginx does the "swap binary while running" trick?
ben_vulpes: trinque: is that info missing from asciilifeform's post to the ml?
ben_vulpes: "pogotronic" iirc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113316 @ 0.00056775 = 64.3352 BTC [+] {6}
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh I can look, just poking your caches first
trinque: I tried building stator with arm-linux-gnueabi and it segfaults on the pogo
trinque: *cross-compiling, that is
trinque: trying to get some repeatable builds going for arm
ben_vulpes: neato
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 17:37:21; trinque: anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?
ascii_field: this is in 'portatronic'
ascii_field: the buildroot gives you the complete toolchain you need, independently from that of the box you're on
ascii_field: i recommend using that
ascii_field: gotta be little-endian armv5
ascii_field: or will barf spectacularly
ascii_field: (for the exact instruction set supported, see the marvell datasheet posted ~6 mo. ago.)
assbot: CommandLine - Nginx Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHg4Qh )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84900 @ 0.0005698 = 48.376 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: vector-ipa/src at master · hackedteam/vector-ipa · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHgGpk )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00056706 = 15.9344 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: anyone who sees a 'martian' version number from nosuchlabs public node, please don't be alarmed. running an experiment today, to determine whether we are being corralled by gavinists using advertised version constant
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you liked clements tall tales, you might get a kick out of Glynn-Ward's "Glamour of British Columbia"
assbot: Bitcoin / Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1M83QNX )
ascii_field: ^ re: block timestamping
ben_vulpes: "The English come out and travel through, knowing all about everything beforehand, as the English always do; and, having set standards, they compare the Fraser to the Thames (former too wide) and the Selkirks to the Cotswolds (former too high). They get out to spend a day or so at Lake Louise or Jasper, then get into the train again and stay there till they reach Vancouver. Then they go back to England and give vague lectures in town
ben_vulpes: halls, about "great open spaces" and "the need for a population." But they know nothing of the real British Columbia.
ascii_field: so i'm nearly certain that the timestamp ~2h epoch time window is the reason for wedged 0.5.x nodes, at this point
ben_vulpes: The Americans come, with plenty of money, and stay at the much-advertised hotels, gulping down the Rockies in predigested doses, thenrace through in a Pullman car to the next big hotel on the coast. And how can they know anything of the province?
kakobrekla: >but I can't fake the hashing power it needs to
kakobrekla: generate one year's worth of hashes. < isnt this one year actually 10 min ?
ben_vulpes: The little Jap who, laughing up and down his sleeve goes cheerfully about his business in a gas-boat up the coast, or picks out the best small-fruit land in the country; the ubiquitous Chinaman, steadily cornering all the loose cash in the land -- of a surety these two know more of British Columbia than most white men!
ascii_field: kakobrekla: ^ if there were no record of the early blocks - then yes
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: fascinating! what gears are failing to mesh here?
kakobrekla: >you won't gain much by lying to your peers since your block won't be
kakobrekla: accepted < like miners care
kakobrekla: bah fuckin line breaks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00056597 = 11.4326 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: Story has it that he returned to Hazelton, once, after a trip up the Telegraph Trail, and there he found out that he had missed the farthest cabin of all, over two hundred miles away, and there were two men up there left without supplies for the winter. Either the Government had not made the tale of the cabins clear or C. B. himself had miscalculated. However that may have been, the plain fact remained that these two men had to be
ben_vulpes: supplied -- and it was getting late in the autumn.
ben_vulpes: So C. B. at once set off north again witha pack-train of sixty-eight horses. He had no very great hope of being able to make his destination before the hard weather came on, but he traveled with all the speed possible, to get over the worst places on the trail before ths first snow fell. But as ill-luck would have it, it began to snow one night just as he came to the rock ledges where the going was bad at the best of times. It snowed
ben_vulpes: all next day and the following night without any let-up.
ben_vulpes: Every now and then a horse would miss its footing and go over, sometimes into the rushing river below, to be lost forever. Then it froze, and the going was hopeless. One by one the horses slipped and went down until it was impossible to go onward. C. B. shrugged his shoulders and altered his plans.
ben_vulpes: <photo>
ben_vulpes: Those supplies had to be delivered to the men patiently waiting for them at the far end of the trail, So he cached the supplies, hoiseted as many carcases of the dead horses as possible into trees where the wolves could not get them, and went all the way back to Hazelton to get dog-teams.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: ???
ben_vulpes: (almost done, ascii_field)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7541 @ 0.00055906 = 4.2159 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: culubas: Timejacking & Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JJPzK3 )
ben_vulpes: Again he started out, this time with a hundred and twenty-eight dogs, and when he came to the place where he had turned back, he was able to feed the dogs on dead horse-meat, and so get through to the cabin where to two men were waiting. But on the return trip, the going was heavy and slow and he found that the worlves had reached the cache of horse-meat and finished it up, so the dogs were short of food and though he killed one after
ben_vulpes: another to feed the rest, they weakend and died on the trail.
ben_vulpes: So it was that C. B. returned to Hazelton afoot, limping into the hotel one snowy night in midwinter, "broke to the wide", but otherwise unconcerned.
ben_vulpes: "Oh, well, I had the contract, and I had to fill it!" And that was all he said.
ben_vulpes: ^^ the wot at work. ridiculous numbers aside, we tell stories of heroic deeds performed in service of the papers we sign.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski whaddaya know about this glynn-ward character?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33103 @ 0.00055826 = 18.4801 BTC [-]
hdbuck: hello mircea_popescu, just passing by to say thx for the rating
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: are blocks from headers-only miners coming out with timestamps too far in the future?
jurov: ben_vulpes: nginx prolly just exec()s itself
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i do not yet know the answer to this
ben_vulpes: jurov: there's a bit more than that. did you read my subsequent link?
ben_vulpes: there's a whole sig* song and dance.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3397 @ 0.00055339 = 1.8799 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out it was the epoch time
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: in other news, give my regards to http://dreyfus.umiacs.umd.edu
assbot: dreyfus.umiacs.umd.edu ... ( http://bit.ly/1M88g7G )
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: how'd you run it down?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: moved it by hand
ascii_field: this is a rather worrisome discovery
ben_vulpes: "it" << specifically?
ascii_field: (not the umd box. though betcha it belongs to the umd scamlab)
ascii_field: the epoch thing
assbot: real-bitcoin/main.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1M88uLT )
ben_vulpes: is this a direct result of headers only mining?
ascii_field: i had the box set to my local time instead of gmt
ascii_field: but what this means is that no, the thing won't correct for clock offset
ascii_field: it will just silently cough blood
ben_vulpes: blee. so block validation relies on some absolute coordinated time?
ben_vulpes: jesus shit. we'll have to run our own ntp cluster next.
ascii_field: if |your_epoch - block_epoch| > 2hour then lose
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i could have told you that
mircea_popescu: sadly, was eating.
ben_vulpes: node has been wedged for more than a lunch iirc
ascii_field: i knew the basic fact of. but given as the box displayed correct wall time, did not think of it
ascii_field: had to check by hand
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46050 @ 0.00055682 = 25.6416 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: date +%s
ascii_field: amazing that it ever worked
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
kakobrekla: 'your_epoch' is 'network-adjusted time' isnt it
ascii_field: kakobrekla: theoretically, epoch time is 'one for all of us, like victory'
ascii_field: normally gmt.
kakobrekla: >A timestamp is accepted as valid if it is greater than the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks, and less than the network-adjusted time + 2 hours. "Network-adjusted time" is the median of the timestamps returned by all nodes connected to you.
kakobrekla: this suggests otherwise ?
ascii_field: but since i refuse to run ntp on the box, i ended up setting date manually when i was given it
ascii_field: and this, turns out, moved epoch time!
ascii_field: instead of merely moving offset
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that
ascii_field: also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today
assbot: Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1M89Bet )
mircea_popescu: how the fuck we ended up with this situation where diff machiens have unequal times is beyond me
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it was intended to work as you stated above
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today << eeeheuhe
assbot: Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1M89Bet )
ben_vulpes: i actually think setting version to $maxint is a pretty great idea.
mircea_popescu: it really makes very little difference
ben_vulpes: why advertise version instead of just responding to network messages?
mircea_popescu: if you mined and set the block version to maxint it might.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it doesn't make a practical difference, but it pins a pointless magic variable at its "infinity" value, in the zero, one infinity mapping.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i brought up this point before. asked mircea_popescu why we insist on making it so easy for gavinists to wall off our net from the rubes. iirc mircea_popescu said 'fuck them all'
ben_vulpes: imho there are 3 things to be done
ben_vulpes: 1 be "honest" advertise some "version"
ben_vulpes: 2 be stealthy, advertise whatever "version" is "current" with the shitgnomes
ben_vulpes: 3 say "fu this shit is wrong and stupid", set version to $maxint
ascii_field favours 3 and stated this some time ago
ben_vulpes: i'm coming around.
ben_vulpes: perhaps should be configgable for stealth in production.
ben_vulpes: trivial patch to apply for anyone who's vested.
kakobrekla: i dont see how maxint is better than '0' except for the pride parade
ascii_field: they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: there's logic in even the RI codebase that does derpy shit if version numbers are below some critical value.
ben_vulpes: ergo we can only ratchet forward. like evolution.
kakobrekla: wait , and you want this to remain in?
ben_vulpes: it is *live on the network*
ascii_field: kakobrekla: which 'this' ?
ben_vulpes: has nothing to do with our codebase.
kakobrekla: ascii_field special low version logic
ascii_field: kakobrekla: fact is, if one of our nodes says 'ver 0', everyone it connects to will throw turds in its face
kakobrekla: it doesnt make sense to even use that
ascii_field: kakobrekla: ~other people~ use it
ben_vulpes: hehe turds
kakobrekla: we care for other people now ?
trinque: the thing's a network after all...
ascii_field: kakobrekla: when we move to alpha centauri with own miners - we can stop
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: actually this bears testing too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27294 @ 0.00054821 = 14.9628 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: "does a node with version == 0 fail to sync?"
ben_vulpes can barf up this patch sometime this week if not beaten to punch
ben_vulpes: configgable patch, that is.
ben_vulpes: because recompiling bitcoin to set its version number is fucking retarded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23256 @ 0.00052653 = 12.245 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes also suspects that alf is holding this patch in abeyance
kakobrekla: also try empty value while you are at it
jurov votes for ver. num. 1337
trinque: heh!
ben_vulpes: 8007135
ben_vulpes: 8008135
ascii_field: when we get own planet, with own miners, then - all the solipsism you like
ascii_field: until then, we get wedged nodes and other joys
ben_vulpes: wait, wedge is related to version number?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: speaking here of block ver constant
ascii_field: the other one appears to only affect 'phone books', which i'm not even certain matter
ascii_field: (other than the low ver. corner cases mentioned earlier)
kakobrekla: eh block ver doesnt not even matter until you can produce a block
ascii_field: the epoch thing is a more pressing matter
ascii_field: POGO HAS NO RTC CLOCK
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00052595 = 13.5169 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: myeah i'm troubled.
punkman: pogo can use something like https://github.com/ioerror/tlsdate
assbot: ioerror/tlsdate · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1M8cf44 )
punkman: or regular ntp
ascii_field: punkman: ssl ? no thx
ascii_field: not to mention that ANY AND ALL hardcoded addrs ~will~ be targets
ben_vulpes: ascii_field:and why no ntp?
ascii_field: every bit as bad as ntp
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: because 100% usg
ascii_field: hitler literally has a button that can set it to whatever.
trinque: could you use the same sort of logic ntpd does against block timestamps?
ascii_field: trinque: ~which~ blocks
ascii_field: any and all turds that claim to be blocks ?
ascii_field: this is a catch-22, realize
trinque: seems you'd have to trust at least one node
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16854 @ 0.00053798 = 9.0671 BTC [+]
trinque: yeah I do
ascii_field: part of block validation is 'is the timestamp <2h from now'
ascii_field: as discussed earlier in this thread
punkman: "[OPEN] Reimplement NTP"
kakobrekla: but time now is also determined by your peers
ascii_field: ^ without centralization
ascii_field: this is, incidentally, a much harder problem than the invention of bitcoin
punkman: "Revenue from new accounts : 0 BTC" oh noes
punkman: is this a first?
ascii_field: perhaps the day finally came when everyone who could ever afford it - has bought
punkman: !up ascii_field
trinque: so there's "network adjusted time" right?
trinque: that's already just the median time of the peers you know
ascii_field: trinque: realize that this can be manipulated by the enemy
ascii_field: to be whatever the fuck he wants
ascii_field: just by sybiling your node
trinque: sure
trinque: I don't see a way of getting the time that *doesn't* suffer from that
ascii_field: there ~is~ the way of having a working clock
trinque: aside from having been set by me, using my cesium clock, then running on battery with an RTC thereafter
ascii_field: but we don't have one.
trinque: yeah
ascii_field: even a $1 rtc chip, the kind found on old pc mobos, would suffice
ascii_field: but we don't have even this.
trinque: ascii_field: does not seem there's any sense in continuing on trying to do something distributed without an rtc
ascii_field: trinque: realize that without pogo, you're paying literally 10+ TIMES more per node.
ascii_field: the only solution i can presently think of is a variant of ntp over gossipd.
ascii_field: that, or external physical rtc.
punkman: solder rtc to serial interface?
ascii_field: punkman: who wants to do this? you ?
ascii_field: go, solder.
trinque: surely there's a tiny USB rtc
trinque is googling
ascii_field: trinque: yes. costs about what the pogo does
trinque: that's less than 10x
ascii_field: 'measely' 2x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056838 = 15.1757 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: have we fixed the peer selection? if peers are to be configured manually, they are trustworthy enough to fetch time from, no?
trinque: jurov: that was my thought.
trinque: but then I suppose that suffers from attacks against the routing involved to get to that IP
trinque: hence gossipd
trinque: incidentally I have found tinc to be rather fucking nice for p2p networking
jurov: okay, but line must be drawn somewhere
jurov: i can't imagine what would have to be done if you expect your own pipe to be utterly hostile
trinque: I dunno any additional complexity is "cheaper" than the extra 25 bucks or w/e for the clock
ascii_field: jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist
ascii_field: and yes, i expect the pipe to be maximally hostile
ascii_field: but more than anything, i expect that any centralized points of failure ~will~ be usgized
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51977 @ 0.00056989 = 29.6212 BTC [+] {5}
trinque: this tlsdate thing is hilarious
ascii_field: trinque: aha, just when i thought that nothing could be more retarded than ntp
trinque: there's a github repo out there for everything
trinque finds lunch
ascii_field: the time problem has to be solved
ascii_field: WITHOUT doing retarded things
trinque: so you don't like the outboard rtc?
punkman: the parasitic timestamp fetching is not a bad idea though
ascii_field: because - again - cost
ascii_field: punkman: again, no
ascii_field: every bit as bad as ntp!
ascii_field: uses servers!
trinque: $50 does not seem prohibitive, but k
ascii_field: trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo
trinque: was going off "double" and including pogo
trinque: but in either case
ascii_field: a solution that HALVES our fleet is ispo facto retarded!
ascii_field: picture an admiral agreeing to lose 'only half' of his fleet
trinque: sure sure
trinque: but actual cost of a vessel is not yet determined
punkman: what fleet
trinque: maybe without the rtc it's a leaky boat
trinque: but anyhow, could be retarded, sure
trinque will ponder the mysteries of pogotime over food matter
ascii_field: even if the thing had a battery-backed otc, there would remain the question of how to set it
ascii_field: but it doesn't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53197 @ 0.00057204 = 30.4308 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: i am reaching the conclusion that: to the extent bitcoin relies on political time AT ALL, it is broken.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field:-connect means "ultimately trusted".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00055261 = 6.4379 BTC [-]
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: there wouldn't be any '-connect' on pogo net
ascii_field: given that it turns your node into a boat anchor
ascii_field: (no one can connect to it)
ascii_field: it'd have to warm up with a few 'addnode's pointing to working boxes, to run at all, yes
ascii_field: but given as the protocol has no authentication, these could vomit forth literally anything
ben_vulpes: i'm beginning to suspect that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in the same way that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.
kakobrekla: <ascii_field> trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo < if you dont include ssd you dont have a working node
ascii_field: kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop
ben_vulpes: i must derp my ass down the coast now, however.
jurov: i'm eyeing 64GB SSDs for 36 euro
punkman: ben_vulpes: see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-07-2015#1189265 regarding GPG-diddler automation
jurov: should last 2 years, hoepfully then there will be sth much cheaper
kakobrekla: !up ascii_field
jurov: i don't have anything around to rip
kakobrekla: ascii_field> kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop < maybe that is true for you and me but not the majority i dont think
ascii_field: kakobrekla: even so, it is a bog-standard consumer product and could be obtained with massive bulk discount if we were to try in earnest
ascii_field: the rest of the system - no
kakobrekla: china usb rtc in bulk 5$?
jurov: for example eeepcs had 8/19G SSDs, not suitable
ascii_field: and presently, i am failing to turn up usb rtc modules for any price on mass market
ascii_field: the ~20 usd figure came out of my arse
ascii_field: based on component cost
ascii_field: kakobrekla: if you know of one, plz link
kakobrekla: i was chicomfying your turd only
jurov: ssd business is so brisk, i doubt very much there will be significant bulk discounts
kakobrekla: i agree
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00057267 = 5.3545 BTC [+]
ascii_field: "errors" : "EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range \nCInv::GetCommand() : type=3 unknown type \nbitcoin in ProcessMessage() \n"
jurov: or $20 only fake 4G chips
ascii_field: ^ interesting
jurov: marked as 64
shinohai wants to start a pogo bitnode factory, ensure domination of therealbitcoin
ascii_field: ... and the node is 2 blocks ahead of 'blockchain.info'
ascii_field: shinohai: good luck obtaining so much as ONE system-on-chip for the prototype
ascii_field: i've been trying for ~6 months and could not.
ascii_field: it appears to be utterly impossible to obtain the key components outside of cn
punkman: ascii_field: I think that error means node is sending you command only present in later nodes
ascii_field: and tw
ascii_field: punkman: well, yes. but ~which~
kakobrekla: bc info seems sorta down
punkman: need mega-debug-sanity patch
ascii_field: works here
kakobrekla fuckin hates the days when he has to worry about britneychain
kakobrekla: the chain is down, not site
ascii_field: and shows that the gavinists are busy bees, stuffing the britneychain full of liquid shit
assbot: DS1302 Real Time Clock Module - Blue - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1J164vA )
ascii_field: jurov: NOT USB !!!!
ascii_field: unless you'd like to personally solder these to all 5,000 theoretical pogos
ascii_field: for free
jurov: *shrug*. so? throw usbserial chip in?
ascii_field: 'throw'
ascii_field: want to solder ?
trinque waves hands
ascii_field: just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together
jurov: surely there are monkeys around that can solver that
jurov: *solder
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:49:17; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that
decimation: actually happens on linux as I understand. there's a thing
decimation: called CLOCK_MONOTONIC
assbot: linux - Difference between CLOCK_REALTIME and CLOCK_MONOTONIC? - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1J16jXw )
decimation: sorry for the munged spacing :(
ascii_field: jurov: involving ~any~ monkey at all is astronomically outside of what we expected the cost to be.
trinque: jurov: I have no slave monkeys that can solder
ascii_field: right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'
ascii_field: if there is 'monkey' in between those, add many times the cost in transportation at the least.
ascii_field: dead end.
jurov: yes. and you so like to paint yourself into corner
ascii_field: jurov probably noticed that just moving one of these from america to europe doubles the cost.
punkman: "[OPEN] Reimplement pogo in chinese"
jurov: http://www.dx.com/p/usb-to-ttl-cp2102-serial-module-red-309988#.VZrOeJR9zmE maybe even no soldering is required, just wire this to rtc module
assbot: USB to TTL CP2102 Serial Module - Red - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1J16tOH )
decimation: why not write a lightweight client that gets the time from trusted bitcoind node network?
ascii_field: decimation: because bitcoin doesn't use crypto
ascii_field: there is no such thing as a 'trusted node'
decimation: no, but latest block?
ascii_field: circular logic
ascii_field: whether a block can be 'latest' depends on local time!
decimation: not if multiple nodes are queried
ascii_field: sybils
decimation: myeah
decimation: if you actually want to keep time offline it's not gonna be cheap or easy
jurov: then you painted yourself to a corner and need tiny webserver for user to set time manually
danielpbarron: jurov mircea_popescu sent
jurov: or some such
decimation: what's wrong with usg timeservers?
jurov: danielpbarron: how many?
ascii_field: jurov: not sure if it is so much of a corner. perhaps it is possible to get a 'good enough' picture of political time via some clever means
decimation: no need to run ntp, just ask for time once
ascii_field: thing needs time every time it powers up
danielpbarron: jurov, enough "parts" to make 12
decimation: it asks for tiem when it powers up
jurov: wow, thanks
decimation: plenty of shit does that
ascii_field: plenty of shit gets owned to pieces
jurov: that's not clever enough for alf
decimation: lol so you are gonna get diddled time?
ascii_field: i fully expect it
danielpbarron: a few of the inner plastic clips got cracked in the de-shelling process but they should still click back together no problem
ascii_field: but more prosaically, ddosed servers
decimation: okay if we are taking it that level, then you really need non-network time
decimation: gps, shortwave, longwave, etc
decimation: maybe it can come with a plug-in sextant?
ascii_field: l0l gps time
ascii_field: jammed for sport as we speak
trinque: some way of signaling current time via invalid transactions?
ascii_field: by fuck knows how many folks
decimation: fine, glosnass, galileo
ascii_field: and no signature
ascii_field: i am looking forward to hearing of some answer other than soldering iron or gossipd
ascii_field: mircea_popescu awake ?
decimation: or use WWVB and/or DCF77 and whatever else
punkman: slavegirl must post signed timestamp every 10 minutes?
ascii_field: decimation: quickest way to make sure any kid can set your clock to whatever he wants
ascii_field: is to use un-rsasigned radio !
decimation: alright, apparently we need a #b-a radio clock transmitter too
jurov: and if we have rsa-signed time, usg will pwn or jam that too
ascii_field: and now we've turned bitcoin into a centralized turd
ascii_field: as jurov points out.
decimation: it was already such a turd, we are just trying to find out what to do about it
ascii_field: probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely
decimation: if we are this paranoid about it, the only solution I can think of is to ship a separate box with an ethernet port
trinque: ascii_field: what's wrong with the idea of signaling via specially crafted txn?
ascii_field: trinque: crafted how ?
decimation: that serves time via ntp server and has a push-button input on the front panel
ascii_field: and what is the thing to do until it hears it ?
ascii_field: decimation: gonna ship a gigabit switch also?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13392 @ 0.00056806 = 7.6075 BTC [-]
decimation: can be 10/100
ascii_field: and now you've throttled the pogo to 10/100
ascii_field: and who will produce magic box? martians?
jurov: well.. nuke the time-related checks altogether?
trinque: ascii_field: the script itself could be both properly signed and invalid right?
trinque: could you encode the time into it?
trinque: and consider certain addresses a valid source of time?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:28:33; punkman: ascii_field: see also http://culubas.blogspot.gr/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html
decimation: I find the magic box unneeded when I can get rsa signed time from a variety of places via ntp
ascii_field: trinque: who will encode? what time ?
ascii_field: back to a magic public key a la gavin ?
ascii_field: decimation: the point is that these 'places' are central points of failure, and are even now controlled by the enemy
decimation: not really, nearly every non-orc (and some orc) governments and institutions have ntp
ascii_field: the point i've been trying to make is ~not~ 'let's all go eat our pistols' but that the entire fiction of political time is poisonous when applied to bitcoin
decimation: not sure about the signed part though, need to look into that
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yeh
ascii_field: decimation: there is no ability to authenticate what you get from ntp connection
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, I think that is the only possible way to avoid having a magic central something
punkman: you can't have bitcoin without human time. meat rots.
trinque: having bitcoin disregard time, which I'm sure has all kinds of implications around when you may consider a given block valid
ascii_field: decimation: who gets to sign ?
trinque: bitcoin jesus of course
ascii_field: hitler? me? mircea_popescu?
ascii_field: any and all choices are terrible
decimation: if they all give the same time, they are probably not lying
ascii_field: if they all give the same time, it is probably because hitler killed the others and took their keys
trinque: is the problem reducible to "all pogos agree on the time" ?
ascii_field: trinque: within +/- 2h
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29346 @ 0.00055261 = 16.2169 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:46; ascii_field: they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:35; ben_vulpes: trivial patch to apply for anyone who's vested.
trinque: ascii_field: and then going down that route, anyone can diddle his pogo soon as it's in hand
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:00:13; ben_vulpes: wait, wedge is related to version number?
ascii_field: ^ see log. i determined that it is entirely on account of epoch time
ascii_field: trinque: adjusting anything whatsoever on pogo is nontrivial for a 'civilian'
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:10:06; punkman: is this a first?
punkman: mazel tov
trinque: so this decentralized ledger thing requires centralized time
trinque: fascinating.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189717 << i have no idea why the 2nd set would even exist.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:27:32; ascii_field: jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist
mircea_popescu: why is pogo connecting to anything but good nodes again ?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
kakobrekla: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: there is presently no mechanism for 'pull blocks ONLY FROM THESE'
ascii_field: there is only 'addnode' and 'connect'
ascii_field: the latter turns the node into a kind of boat anchor while active
ascii_field: (no one can connect TO it)
ascii_field: the former treats the added ip as equal in status to those dug up from dirt
ascii_field: but in ~both~ cases there is no protection from mitm
trinque: anybody ever looked at tinc as a starting place for a gossipd?
trinque: does p2p networking over RSA keys
ascii_field: author in wot ?
decimation: time is already centralized in the sense that we are all spinning on the same planet
ascii_field: and why would i want to bridge nets
decimation: the question is merely 'who do you trust to tell you the correct phase of rotation'
assbot: tinc Manual: Libraries ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgUvtT )
ascii_field: punkman: ~barf~
trinque: kinda like that bitcoin thing
trinque: or if the set of things which exist does not contain the thing desired, there you have it.
punkman: what if you could do like tlsdate over ssh, you just dial random IPs at ssh port, get buncha timestamps
ascii_field: punkman: 'pogo' has no rng...
mike_c: block hash is rng
ascii_field: so doing anything 'randomly' will be problematic.
ascii_field: mike_c: when you have no blocks ?
ascii_field: (upon unboxing)
mike_c: i was trying to think of some way to use the block hash to determine "who" you ask for timestamps, but the list of "who" is unknowable/proveable.. ends up in the same place.
mike_c: time sucks.
ascii_field: mike_c: all the signs point to us trying to solve the utterly wrong problem.
ascii_field: 'fried ice'
punkman: fried ice cream is a thing
trinque: ascii_field: is it +/- 2hrs or is it no more than 2hrs in the future?
decimation: if lizard hitler pwn's everyone's ntp servers, I think we all have bigger problems than block time epoch in bitcoin
trinque: you can of course accept a block from the past
ascii_field: decimation: it isn't an 'if'
trinque: why does this matter?
ascii_field: this is who owns them ~now~
ascii_field: because right now, hitler has, essentially, a button that makes just about the whole btc network shit its pants
trinque: say I though a block from last year at your node, I don't see why it would matter that your clock is set to tomorrow
ascii_field: i would like this to ~not~ be the case
mike_c: but if they muck with ntp they'll break themselves too
trinque: vs if you are set to yesterday and I give you a block from tomorrow
decimation: ascii_field: but that would come at the cost of fucking *all clocks for all users*
ascii_field: decimation: other users might not even notice
ascii_field: if it is done briefly
ascii_field: they will get apologies and a coupon for free blowjob at community whorehouse
mike_c: markets break over the stupid leap second
decimation: converable to dollars?
ascii_field: zimbabwe dollars
decimation: essentially there isn't such a thing as p2p time
decimation: for whatever reason nobody has thought to scratch that itch
ascii_field: only in so far as proof-of-work can be used
ascii_field: is there a notion of p2p time.
decimation: right, but that requires a trusted way to ask a bitcoind "what's the timestamp of the last verified block'
decimation: in the existing network, I suspect 99% of the miners are using ntpd traceable to some usg organ
ascii_field: and the 1% - .cn
decimation: who knew that we needed a #b-a astronomer
trinque: anyone clear on whether it's +/- 2hrs or what I said?
ascii_field: but we already established that miners are clinically retarded
trinque goes to inspect the function which does this
decimation: ascii_field: I wonder if satoshi thought that these nodes would be anonymous?
decimation: rather than the blatent centralizing points that they actually are?
mircea_popescu: he thought that everyone will run one and so it'll be too noisy to follow them.
mircea_popescu: because humanity is humanitarian and similar windows-powered bullshit.
decimation: yeah, seems legit
decimation puts 'celesial navigation' on the library list
ascii_field: did nobody ever discuss the time thing? i have trouble believing this
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> markets break over the stupid leap second << no they don't.
decimation: it's come up a couple of times here, but not in the context of the 2h epoch
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189820 << well, and some "follow this text file with instructions for the software part". but yes.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:53:03; ascii_field: right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'
mircea_popescu: and this is mportant.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:56:14; danielpbarron: jurov mircea_popescu sent
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:59:08; trinque: some way of signaling current time via invalid transactions?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:30:13; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski whaddaya know about this glynn-ward character?
mircea_popescu: just as long as we put THE REAL TIME as a txn in every block, pogos can be fine
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: my objection was 'uses magic key'
mircea_popescu: so it does. there's no way out,.
pete_dushenski: "6 July 04:00: A new fork occurred starting 5 July at 21:30 with three blocks before the valid chain again became the strongest chain."
ascii_field: there's gotta be a way out.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski will the lulz never cease.
pete_dushenski: "Reports that the situation has passed are not correct. Please continue to wait 30 more confirmations than you usually would wait before accepting a transaction."
trinque: the message processing story in bitcoin is a shitshow
trinque digs further
mircea_popescu: very useful, this network that takes 5 hours to confirm txn
assbot: Some Miners Generating Invalid Blocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgWwpR )
mircea_popescu: thanks power rangers!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00055396 = 4.3209 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 20:03:11; ascii_field: probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely
pete_dushenski: *megazord tips his cap*
trinque: maybe I'm an idiot, but I feel like you only get so many if statements per function..
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: why so certain that impossible ?
trinque: "disconnect if we connected to ourself" << LOL
mircea_popescu: because bitcoin is secured by mining which happens irl and the difficulty of mining is set on the basis of irl entropy.
trinque: put your dick down, bitcoin
mircea_popescu: this is not a fully virtual system
ascii_field: why couldn't the difficulty be set based on accumulated work ?
ascii_field: (yes, it would end up climbing monotonically...)
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make any further sense.
ascii_field: the reward could still follow the same asymptotic
ascii_field: assuming that nuclear war doesn't send us back to cpu mining
ascii_field: 'Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining...' << can haz network without 50% hash power belonging to diagnosable retarded folks plz ??!!
decimation: does SPV mining really give you that much 'edge'? It seems dubious to me
ascii_field: as (i think it was) mircea_popescu pointed out, it looks like the miners have not been sufficiently darwined yet
jurov: estimated time to fully verify a block is 20 seconds
ascii_field: and need a couplea catastrophic megadeaths
jurov: ;;calc 20/600
gribble: 0.0333333333333
ascii_field: to help their collective iq move into the double digits at least
jurov: 3% advantage
ascii_field: jurov: let me guess, nobody's written a multicore verifier ?
trinque: ascii_field: http://deedbot.org/stator-lcov/bitcoin/bitcoin/src/main.cpp.gcov.html << line #1265 appears to check for being in the future, not past
jurov: even if multicore, there's still i/o
trinque: so why can't my node's time just be far-future?
ascii_field: jurov: on my measurements, it's almost entirely cpu-bound
trinque: is this a worthwhile experiment?
ascii_field: trinque: because then you can be attacked in various ways
decimation: I wonder if someone could make money by 'brokering' txns on behalf of miners
trinque: ascii_field: making me eat lots of invalid blocks?
assbot: culubas: Timejacking & Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ezxqkc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22280 @ 0.00053981 = 12.027 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: incidentally, does anyone else suspect that cn miners, on account of their microscopic profit margins, are ripe for usgization ?
ascii_field: 'you can make engineer's wages doing what you're doing. or you can do exactly same thing, but use spv and give us root, and your swiss account will grow by 100k/mo.'
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 22:28:31; mircea_popescu: anyway, the main sufferance in my head atm is that reading the chinese stuff (in translation) clarifies in my head an objection that may well be a second major flaw to the protocol, after the "relay nodes gotta do it for the glory" : its altogether unclear a purely financial incentive is the correct solution for miners.
mircea_popescu: of course they are.
ascii_field: these folks' time horizon is perhaps... 2 weeks long ?
ascii_field: i suppose all the 'proper confucians' with millenium-long time cocks are employed as colonels in pla or whatnot
ascii_field: and not mining
ascii_field: seems like collectively chinese see bitcoin the same way they saw crimea
ascii_field: a place to farm to death, to the bedrock
ascii_field: and leave
ascii_field: like locusts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00052881 = 18.2968 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: "ONE MILLION new lines of code hit Linux Kernel 4.2 rc1"
ascii_field: go read, l0l
pete_dushenski: "Most of those new lines of code come from “the new amd gpu register description header”, code that Torvalds says comprises “41 per cent of the entire patch” and has created a “... somewhat odd situation where a single driver is about half of the whole rc1 in number of lines.”"
ascii_field: (probably mostly mods)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field in fairness that's how they saw china too
mircea_popescu: which is why no cows, no trees, everyone on tatamis
ascii_field: who hasn't seen the rivers (literally) of toxic sludge
ascii_field: the 'gutter oil' restaurants, etc
assbot: BitPremier — Luxury Villa, Kalamata, Greece ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgYNS6 )
punkman: I don't even want to know how much tax the owner is paying on that
mircea_popescu: ascii_field gotta be a lot of magic numbers
thestringpuller: d00d. why do I have to wait 30 confirmations?!?
punkman: "We all got access to C. Pozzi's GPG key! https://paste.debian.net/279527/  #hackedteam"
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rh0teo )
thestringpuller: ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45981 @ 0.00051916 = 23.8715 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3852 @ 0.00051916 = 1.9998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14428 @ 0.00051911 = 7.4897 BTC [-]
punkman: pete_dushenski: "in which Greek citizens refused to accept austerity measures" in case it wasn't clear, the referendum question was "do you like this deal? answer yes or no". and the next deal won't be much different either.
pete_dushenski: i imagine you're right
pete_dushenski: all that 'dignity' and yet no bread on the table
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00051916 = 8.6181 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo seems that the "yanis gaming industry" link was added twice in the same (3rd) paragraph
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59917 @ 0.00051916 = 31.1065 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: it works
punkman: 6th or 7th finance minister in 5 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_Tsakalotos
assbot: Euclid Tsakalotos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1JQwmnf )
punkman: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 274.96, Best ask: 274.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 274.98, 24 hour volume: 56638.18757788, 24 hour low: 267.33, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7120 @ 0.00052881 = 3.7651 BTC [+]
punkman: ;;ba,bull
gribble: Error: "ba,bull" is not a valid command.
punkman: ;;bc,bull
gribble: Next Price Estimate: 302.489 | Next Price In About 2 days, 21 hours, 36 minutes, and 24 seconds
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,bear
gribble: Next Price Estimate: 219.968 | Next Price In About 3 days, 0 hours, 20 minutes, and 24 seconds | It's tanking!
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 21:11:18; thestringpuller: ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 21:11:03; punkman: "We all got access to C. Pozzi's GPG key! https://paste.debian.net/279527/  #hackedteam"
ascii_field: speaking of which, i've often thought of adding an 'i know a private key!' box to phuctor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00053521 = 4.8169 BTC [+]
punkman: ascii_field: maybe better place for that in new keyserver?
pete_dushenski: ;;nethash
gribble: 396177655.034
pete_dushenski: c'mon 400 !
BingoBoingo: stator up to 248926
mod6: 333k+
ascii_field: punkman: keyserver is presumably for use as a keyserver, rather than place to hang the severed heads of pwned folks ?
ascii_field: incidentally, for anyone who missed, the public node is working and synced
ascii_field: and go, connect to it.
ascii_field: 195.211.154.159
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu please consider posting your blkxxxx which encompass the two most recent forks
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: i would like to compare it with mine.
BingoBoingo: Ah, public node has maxversion
shinohai: I am *so close* to 350k
TomServo: Ahoy all, just wanted to pass long: my 0.5.3 node is humming along, currently reporting blockheight 364171.
TomServo: If that's of any significance.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5118 @ 0.00053983 = 2.7628 BTC [+]
assbot: HOT! Domain BTC .CO.DE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5bYeL )
shinohai: ^ 10 BTC is steep for a domain name, but I like it
assbot: HOT! Domain BTC .CO.DE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1gk5WAt )
pete_dushenski: "CoinbaseAdrian 30 points an hour ago* : Sorry guys, we're looking into this. It appears to be an issue with our network provider (Cloudflare). We have an urgent ticket open with them and I'll update here with any details." << response to coinbase being offline
danielpbarron: ;;later tell asciilifeform I get a segmentation fault http://danielpbarron.com/blkcut.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12608 @ 0.00051911 = 6.5449 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3cbuq1/im_the_author_of_the_bitcoin_revolution_an/ << oh travis tequilahead, how the mighty "thought leader" has fallen. you've stumbled from writing on your own blog to hacking up scamdesk, and now all the way down to the very bottom of the barrel with reddit. all in the course of, what, 2 weeks ?
assbot: I'm the author of The Bitcoin Revolution: An Internet of Money and founder of Diginomics, Ask Me Anything! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5e12x )
pete_dushenski: "SuperSecretTech: How many bitcoin do you own?" TravisPatron: Not as many as I would like."
pete_dushenski: and so it will always be, travis. so it will always be.
pete_dushenski: looking forward to seeing tequilahead becoming the 8th greek finance minister in 5 years.
pete_dushenski: they deserve each other.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189808 << can attest to this having opened 12 in a row today, although it goes sorta smoothly once you get the hang of it
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:51:35; ascii_field: just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together
TomServo: pete_dushenski: Didja find a way to boot OpenBSD on the edgerouter from USB or are you using the nfs boot option?
pete_dushenski: TomServo i found another computer with a serial port that actually talked to the serial cable i have. the usb adapter i bought was b0rked.
pete_dushenski: using just rj45 to db9
TomServo: But last I read booting OpenBSD required booting over the network, rather than install on the USB drive due to lack of a USB driver
pete_dushenski: first you unplug the usb drive from inside the edgerouter, plug it into your computer, install openbsd on it, unpack it, reinstall the drive in the edgerouter, establish a serial connection, and start talking.
pete_dushenski: !up aabtc
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/06/us-boston-bombings-trial-idUSKCN0PG26R20150706 << "death to america" y'know... unless you wanna appeal your death sentence
assbot: Boston Marathon bomber files motion seeking new trial| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1gk7MBn )
trinque: fuck that kid.
TomServo: pete_dushenski: Ah cool, I'll give it a go. Thanks.
pete_dushenski is pleased that his amateurishness is of use to anyone ever.
pete_dushenski: or i should say, my tragedishness
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00052669 = 7.9004 BTC [+]
assbot: UK’s FCA Issues Warning Against Bitcoin Brokers Bit4X and VenetFX | Finance Magnates ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5gnhI )
kakobrekla: thats superold
kakobrekla: but yeah, wouldnt it?
pete_dushenski: you'd think so.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20450 @ 0.00052008 = 10.6356 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up slikers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00052669 = 18.2761 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188147 << now that you mention it, it occurs to me that my 0.7.2 node had been fully synched (until the recent wedge) running on a single 5400 rpm drive and 8 gigs of ram
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 11:33:19; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185700 << in my experience, you can use spinning rust if you throw in 8GB RAM
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188174 << it's a +1 ! those usually come with "details" like "fresh blood"
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 12:18:42; mats: too light on actual details imo
decimation: pete_dushenski: I thought that openbsd didn't support the usb storage driver for edgerouter
decimation: if you are saying otherwise than that is good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25884 @ 0.00052669 = 13.6328 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190162 << please consider modifying the proggy to print running block count, so i can try to replicate
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 22:36:48; danielpbarron: ;;later tell asciilifeform I get a segmentation fault http://danielpbarron.com/blkcut.txt
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190196 << it is very, very easy to use almost arbitrarily slow disk if you have ram for the kernel to cache it with
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 23:23:15; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188147 << now that you mention it, it occurs to me that my 0.7.2 node had been fully synched (until the recent wedge) running on a single 5400 rpm drive and 8 gigs of ram
asciilifeform: on pogo we very much have no such thing
asciilifeform: need pretty much 100% of ram for logic
asciilifeform: which is why i'd like to banish the block index to disk. so that the 128m of ram can be freed up to cache disk ~as required~
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i did my 'edgerouter' by building on pc and copying to the stick, yes
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190150 << not sure if this is technically correct - there is, i think, room for another leading '9' !
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 22:13:22; BingoBoingo: Ah, public node has maxversion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34133 @ 0.00052669 = 17.9775 BTC [+]
assbot: Three men convicted in parachute jump from New York's 1 World Trade Center| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5k8Ur )
assbot: Death of Maryland boy pushed in swing for three days ruled homicide| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5keLE )
BingoBoingo: ^ Hypothesis on one resolution path posited
trinque: asciilifeform: #2 sounds like another case of bad psych meds
coderwill: definitely not funny
assbot: its_bitney_bitch comments on How far behind are we due to the "stress test"? ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5m3Z9 )
pete_dushenski: decimation took some fiddling but i made it happen :)
decimation: pete_dushenski: ah that's good news
assbot: Unless all major miners begin mining with fully validating node software... users of the latest versions of "Bitcoin Core" are at risk of finding themselves Altcoiners : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1fiHTl5 )
decimation: now the question is: how bad is the routing performance
pete_dushenski: decimation that's still tbd on my end. perhaps asciilifeform can comment ?
asciilifeform: wai wut
asciilifeform: comment on what
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo bahahhaa omfg that's sweet.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform edgerouter routing performance
decimation: running openbsd. I thought ascii had been using netbs
asciilifeform: freebsd
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo "The second fork persisted from 21:50 through to 23:40 on July 5th, 2015" << should include blockheight, neh ?
decimation: given the proprietary kernel used by the edgerouter in its linux variant
pete_dushenski: decimation aha. my bsd mistake
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19488 @ 0.00052093 = 10.1519 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: routes at something quite like line speed;
asciilifeform: 100% uptime since i first plugged it in
asciilifeform: ditto for their radio 'ufo', which i bitched about but then got 'openwrt' running on it
decimation: interesting. I didn't see any updates on openbsd saying that the nfs turd was no longer needed
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Haven't seen people talking blockheight. Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams of blockheight as "canonical" measure of time
decimation: pete_dushenski: I assume you are still using the stock uboot which ascii suspects?
decimation: unfortunately blockheight is only a solid concept in retrospect
asciilifeform: chainph0rk never prospers, for the reason, that if it prospers, none dare call it treason (tm) (r)
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo hm. ya. fair nuff.
decimation: asciilifeform: one could verify that one has the correct time by observing occultations
assbot: IOTA Main Table of Contents ... ( http://bit.ly/1fiJ2cy )
pete_dushenski: decimation stock uboot ? << me thinks so, yes.
asciilifeform: decimation: my pogo didn't come with a gimbal telescope; did yours ?
decimation: watching bodies pass in front of other bodies
decimation: no, but the question is: who do you trust to tell you the time?
asciilifeform: entirely separate problem from the one we have
decimation: time (for the moment) still derived from the earth's rotation around the sun (and date by its orbit)
decimation: err rotation about its axis I mean
asciilifeform: epoch time is more related to cesium time
asciilifeform: (which is the actual iso std)
decimation: sure but that's why we have leap seconds
asciilifeform is aware of the 'leap second' bullshit
decimation: point being, someone derives time (the iers) from astronomy, sets the cesium, and broadcasts it
asciilifeform: unrelated: folks competing for mircea_popescu's 1 btc prize for therealbitcoin callgraph can strike 'egypt' utility off the list. it is a worthless pile of shit, which produces worthless piles of shit (at least for cpp proggy)
asciilifeform: the other thing is that we DON'T NEED A DYNAMIC CALLGRAPH FOR ANYTHING !!!!
asciilifeform: at least ~i~ don't
asciilifeform: which means that 'gprof' callgraph is out
decimation: probably valgrind 'callgrind' too
asciilifeform: as is kcachegrind, openpat, amd's codeanalyst, and makeppgraph.
asciilifeform: leaving - afaik - NOTHING at all.
decimation: note that there are plenty of tools that would work for C
decimation: not for C++
asciilifeform: useless here
decimation: another reason why C++ sucks
asciilifeform: i can't use a graph which contains munged names or misses virtual functions.
asciilifeform: or, in the case of dynamic graphs, may omit some corner case which didn't get hit
asciilifeform: dynamic graphs are useful for certain kinds of work, but is more or less the opposite of what i need here.
decimation: the virtual functions thing probably eliminates all halfass attempts to use a C based-tool
asciilifeform: sure do.
asciilifeform: i just tried 'egypt'
asciilifeform: total waste of time.
asciilifeform: (for this reason)
decimation: asciilifeform: one would think the compiler writers would need such a thing
decimation: To verify correctness?
asciilifeform: i mean, yes, gcc turns cpp into an ast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00052034 = 2.1594 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: but this functionality is deliberately not brought out to 'libraryizable' form, for reasons discussed in earlier threads re: rms
decimation: what about clang? I thought stuff like this was the 'reason' it was built
asciilifeform: anybody got a clang build?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ?
assbot: graphviz - Create a call graph for a file with clang - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5oriF )
decimation: " Interesting in that virtual inheritance is represented properly; for example in/std/3.4.5.cc yields 3.4.5.png. "
asciilifeform: i don't see call graph...
asciilifeform: only #include graph
asciilifeform: and inheritance graph
asciilifeform: neither of which is useful to me
asciilifeform: and before anybody asks,
asciilifeform: i am definitely not interested in the output of any proprietary, closed (esp. winblowz) proggy that produces c++ callgraphs
asciilifeform: because i won't be running it.
decimation: it's possible that something like this does it http://www.semanticdesigns.com/Products/DMS/DMSToolkit.html
decimation: for $$$
asciilifeform: decimation: please see above!
decimation: yeah.
trinque: clang looks like it might be the thing
decimation: but all you want is a chart
decimation: someone else can do the dirty work
asciilifeform: i want a chart that i can regenerate.
asciilifeform: on demand.
asciilifeform: thought about using the output of 'lxr'
asciilifeform: but then learned that it is retarded
trinque cooks his balls recompiling llvm
asciilifeform: and unable to distinguish between functions of same name in different classes
asciilifeform: (when listing its 'who calls')
asciilifeform: the chart ~must~ be semantically correct. this is not negotiable
asciilifeform: (one which is not, is worse than useless)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00052414 = 5.9752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40500 @ 0.00052004 = 21.0616 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19995 @ 0.00052414 = 10.4802 BTC [+]
trinque: mats: and so nice of google to ship that with their browser
mats: the exploit is interesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00051884 = 23.7888 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mats: tried it on the non-winblowz one ?
mats: https://twitter.com/GammaGroupPR/status/617937092497178624 someone's taking credit for FinFisher and HT
asciilifeform: run moar winblowz!
mats: nope
asciilifeform: in other nyooz that you will never read in english,
asciilifeform: http://www.fontanka.ru/2015/07/06/022 << russian member of parliament busted, had 400 kg (!) of currency
asciilifeform: nm, 100
mats: what denomination notes?
asciilifeform: 400 m rubles (about 7 mn in u.s.)
asciilifeform: !up nottooshitty
nottooshitty: translation?
trinque: ^ was going to ask next "which currency"
asciilifeform: the bugger was an infamous 'moralist'
asciilifeform: tried to suppress abortion, even (a laughable nonstarter in ru) and 'fight alcoholism', etc, etc.
asciilifeform: the dough was found in bank boxes, wouldn't even fit in the vault, was stored all over the place
mats: asciilifeform: how am i to submit keys to phuctor without an api for the keyserver? just post?
asciilifeform: mats: correct
asciilifeform: no api needed
asciilifeform: it takes a standard POST
mats: am i supposed to parse the html or something for a response?
mats: or just piss into the void
asciilifeform: there can be no useful immediate response
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
mats: yeah i should know better
asciilifeform: so apparently they had to take the bank by storm.
trinque: 200 Eaten
asciilifeform: eventually opened with battering ram
funkenstein_ can't wait to buy USD by the kilogram
asciilifeform: http://www.fontanka.ru/2015/07/06/192 << in unrelated nyooz, ru tu-95 bombers helped to celebrate '4th of july' in alaska & california, l0l
asciilifeform: putin, is claimed, was actually on the phone with obama, congratulating, while they buzzed the coast
mats: lol
trinque: that's style
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00052788 = 22.8572 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: 195.211.154.159:8333 - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1dIH57z )
assbot: Snapshot of reachable nodes in the Bitcoin network - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1LP2lX5 )
asciilifeform: apparently we don't even ~have~ a 'useragent' string in 0.5.x
asciilifeform: somehow i missed this, l0l
asciilifeform: who wants to make one up - can!
nottooshitty: put time on it
asciilifeform: nottooshitty: read the thread. it doesn't matter where you put it - it can't be believed
nottooshitty: i know
asciilifeform: we are, apparently, the #43 '- (1)'
asciilifeform: in the list
asciilifeform: on account of being the only node on the planet that passes the idiots' 70001 filter while ~not having a useragent string~
asciilifeform: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/UMD-Coinscope:0.0 << node mentioned much earlier, the one run by the umd dept. of sc4mz4tr0n1cs
assbot: Snapshot of reachable nodes in the Bitcoin network - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1LP2NEA )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33383 @ 0.00053195 = 17.7581 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19927 @ 0.00053341 = 10.6293 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: https://www.btko.in << anyone ever heard of'em ?
assbot: BTKO.in ... ( http://bit.ly/1dIJ8IO )
asciilifeform: advertised in a node userid, '/btko.in:0.11.99/ (70002)'
nottooshitty: storm??
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams << twas a good dream
thestringpuller: ^- that directed at me?
asciilifeform: or BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: what was the ruined dream
thestringpuller: blockheight as canonical measure of time
asciilifeform: it was never a measure of time
asciilifeform: because, as mircea_popescu explained earlier, difficulty is defined in relation to wall time
asciilifeform: for the record, i think this design is asinine
asciilifeform: difficulty oughta have been defined in relation to the difficulty of the last solved block, solely.
asciilifeform: yes, this means that martians can land, mine the remaining blocks in five minutes, and leave earth a smoking and bitcoinless crater
asciilifeform: to which i say mircea_popescu's sacramental 'don't be poor'
asciilifeform: do it to mars before mars - to us!
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you make it sound like prison rape...
asciilifeform: i really fail to grasp for what, precisely, it is, that we need the possibility of falling difficulty.
mats: any folks very familiar with postgresql in here
mats: id like to know how well caching is supported
thestringpuller: mats: you ever use memcache?
mats: i'm exploring the option of _not_ using additional things like redis or memcache
trinque: what are you caching?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00053474 = 9.358 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: oh well, never seena stack that's operated that way in production. would be interestig in what you come up with.
trinque: mats: depending on the situation, maybe a materialized view is called for
mats: key db
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if difficulty always goes up what happens in "nuke scenario"?
trinque: mats: in my experience postgresql can do anything those other piles of shit can
trinque: and often just as fast or faster
asciilifeform: (in gedankenexperiment above, 'mine the remaining blocks' oughta be understood to mean 'mine all the blocks with substantial blockreward')
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: in that scenario, bitcoin either dies with the last remaining man, or the beloved 'hardfork'.
trinque: mats: what in particular is slow?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: or the survivors simply sign, on parchment, with their privkeys, ..., etc
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this makes next block work a non obtainable resource tho?
asciilifeform: the thing barely survives today, much less ww3
mats: trinque: spec calls for displaying stats, which would probably require caching because pgsql reads from disk otherwise
asciilifeform: incidentally, today i invented (hypothetical) very cheap 'clock': an sram with a beta source glued on top
asciilifeform: (from, say, a smoke detector)
asciilifeform: though one would probably prefer something with shorter halflife
mats: depending how large db gets i would expect io to get choked
trinque: mats: could write a view that generates your stats, then a materialized view which is refreshed at an interval with "refresh materialized view" or w/e it is
trinque: I like this approach because there's both an interface that is "fast" and also one that is accurate
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it is seemingly surviving usgavination attempts.
mats: trinque, ok to pm?
trinque: sure
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: unless i seriously misunderstand, 50%+ of the hash rate belongs to folks ~who aren't even running bitcoin~ but a toystore version
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00053216 = 2.9269 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/3330352/post179877748 << historical. sov. sub. close-ups of internals.
asciilifeform: 1970-1998
asciilifeform: interesting because traditional (diesel) motor.
asciilifeform: as in ww2.
asciilifeform: linked mainly on account of this http://russos.ru/img/trip/2009-kolskiy/b440-22.jpg mechanical computer.
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00053423 = 27.0855 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Why Ubuntu plans to replace traditional Linux packages with something better | PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1HJqEnF )
decimation: asciilifeform: no pictures of the radio room?
decimation: home | log | search | deeds | bash | stats | wiki
decimation: PREV: 04-07-2015
decimation: 05-07-2015 show
decimation: [ ] hide bots [ ] links only
asciilifeform: decimation: one of them was 'radio room'
decimation: NEXT: 06-07-2015
decimation: Transcript for 05-07-2015, 1135 lines:
decimation: 00:00:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187182 << add lying schmucks to a degree not experienced since kindergarten on pirate island. the
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...
decimation: f2pool admin's explanation is "we got the bad block from antpool, who we don't know how they got because they told us they only follow us"
decimation: 00:00:40 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners
asciilifeform: decimation: !!
decimation: being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...
decimation: 00:01:03 mircea_popescu: because yes, we're fucktarded enough to not notice what's proposed here is a closed f2pool - antpool loop. they're over there in their own
decimation: parallel universe.
decimation: 00:01:17 mircea_popescu: i dunno when it became fashionable to be infantile, but i'm getting pretty sick of it.
decimation: 00:02:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187220 << so are they :D
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 17:23:18; trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic
decimation: 00:02:39 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 17:23:18; trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic
decimation: 00:03:34 ben_vulpes: ohai punkman
decimation: 00:05:37 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185652 << i really gotta post ak47.sh to the ml
assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
decimation: 00:05:37 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
decimation: 00:06:24 mircea_popescu: "Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so,
decimation: several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far."
decimation: 00:06:36 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the inept spin they published, why the fuck are we pricing things in dollars.
BingoBoingo: Bouncer aimed in the wrond direction?
asciilifeform: probably pushed wrong pedal
decimation: alright, that's the end of my adventure with erc
trinque: lol, I stopped using it myself when I dumped an email to my father in another channel
decimation: I wasn't hitting anything other C-x b
decimation: decided to shit web browser logs from another buffer into chan
trinque: M-x do-everything-and-lock-up
asciilifeform: save-lisp-and-die
decimation: one wonders how shitty lisp machine that emacs is emulating gets into such a sad state
decimation: I'm sure rms would blame my non gnu extension
trinque: probably chafing at the emacs|other boundary
decimation: yeah to be fair I'm running stator on this machine, and it only has 2gb ram
decimation: yeah and erc runs inferior process
decimation: anyway I abandoned irssi because I thought it couldn't handle unicode, but apparently it was my tmux
decimation: шара́жка
trinque: I haven't been able to see non-ascii since I put the weechat instance on obsd
trinque: hm could be tmux in my case too
assbot: Russia Grounds Entire Su-24 Fleet Of Fighter Jets After Deadly Crash Near Sea Of Japan ... ( http://bit.ly/1HJshBP )
decimation: yeah it turns out tmux is very picky about the terminal you are using when you create it
decimation: plus you need to manipulate unicode options maybe
trinque: yeah, it seemed pissed about my rxvt-unicode-256color when ssh'ing in
trinque: copied over the termcap, which sort of helped
trinque: hm I wonder if this tmux session actually predates copying the termcap
trinque: and in fact, yes; it works now.
trinque: шара́жка
trinque: whatever that means
trinque: !up Transisto2
trinque: huh... then when disconnecting and reconnecting with tmux, gone.
trinque: computers are hard
assbot: Sharashka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HJu5uk )
decimation: !up bagels7
bagels7: good morning, hwo do you do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00052875 = 18.4005 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00051761 = 21.7914 BTC [-]
mats: how goes the money changing
bagels7: well I was into IT then I got a sign from god and went a different path, physical, mental and spiritual fitness. body/mind/spirit all well
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1VFDQZV.txt )
decimation: !up Vexual
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.itworld.com/article/2944275/ad-fraud-trojan-updates-flash-player-so-that-other-malware-cant-get-in.html < lulzy trojan uses flash exploit and then helpfully updates flash after infection
assbot: Ad fraud Trojan updates Flash Player so that other malware can't get in | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1HJwxkF )
Vexual: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 270.5, Best ask: 271.09, Bid-ask spread: 0.59000, Last trade: 270.48, 24 hour volume: 54919.01843139, 24 hour low: 267.74, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32494 @ 0.00051493 = 16.7321 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49250 @ 0.00054157 = 26.6723 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: mats: i thought that was brendafdez
asciilifeform: ;;seen brendafdez
gribble: brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 33 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <brendafdez> mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.
mats: oh mixed em up nvm
Vexual: lol
Vexual: it happens
decimation: mats: bagels7 is the trans 'person'
asciilifeform: so was brendafdez ?
asciilifeform: hence, i think, the confusion
mats: oops
decimation: !up slikers
mats: haro
decimation: slikers: are you using ipv6
slikers: nope
slikers: what is issue ?
Vexual: we chack and chack again
decimation: I thought irccloud put your ip
decimation: interesting
slikers: nope
decimation: what brings you here slikers
decimation: !up maximian
Vexual: ;;later tell cazala asx:ipo these kids had the melb free rent desks?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: punkman: i don't understand the point of your gpgdiddling link
Vexual: 3 months became a heady meatwot?
Vexual: \query gribz
Vexual: ;;later tell cazzala ^^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36532 @ 0.00051493 = 18.8114 BTC [-]
Vexual: ;;seen naphex
gribble: naphex was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 days, 10 hours, and 28 seconds ago: <Naphex> https://xotika.tv/#/channel115/LovelyTaya enjoy xD
Vexual: tincans
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> mike_c: all the signs point to us trying to solve the utterly wrong problem. << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189757 << and by "diddle" i mean "use", if that wasn't clear.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:39:57; ben_vulpes: i'm beginning to suspect that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in the same way that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.
asciilifeform: well yes
ben_vulpes: punkman: i think i see now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00051493 = 4.0422 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: leastaways without a wholesale replacement of sync mechanism plus god only knows what else eventually.
Vexual: time is hard
Vexual: and soft
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: thread was about how bitcoin as it exists is very much designed around 'political time' being a knowable and generally agreed-on thing
ben_vulpes: i begin to understand.
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/auth-ntp.cfm < apparently you need to sign up by post if you want to receive 'authenticated time service' from usg
assbot: NIST Authenticated NTP Service ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ti5JMe )
decimation: plus you need a static ip
Vexual: have you read celetitial vagigation yet?
Vexual: typo
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