Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-06-23 | 2015-06-25 →
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80506 @ 0.00041514 = 33.4213 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70329 @ 0.00040621 = 28.5683 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00040657 = 12.807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84800 @ 0.00040408 = 34.266 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.00039714 = 20.8499 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00039377 = 29.6509 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106950 @ 0.00040878 = 43.719 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00040534 = 30.5221 BTC [-]
phf: hello, i had some free time so i built bitcoind with patches up to "ver 5_4" on os x 10.8
phf: it's doing all the right things, i.e. wouldn't connect until explicitly given addnode, discurding bastard blocks, hovering at 62mb. block count 129821 right now
phf: can anyone confirm that this looks like a complete list of patches to date (afaik those marked as U have been rejected on ml)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40965 @ 0.00040534 = 16.6048 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59850 @ 0.00041015 = 24.5475 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Oh phuctor passed a million moduli
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.0004008 = 19.7594 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00039344 = 16.4458 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: phf: It doesn't look wrong
assbot: Obama Orders War On Computing And Bitcoin With New "Emergency" Order (Full Text) | Qntra ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58332 @ 0.00041271 = 24.0742 BTC [+]
assbot: Former White House Chef Walter Scheib Drowned in Accidental Death: Autopsy - NBC News ... ( )
BingoBoingo: ^ For the nailgun chronicles
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116900 @ 0.0003968 = 46.3859 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112850 @ 0.00041425 = 46.7481 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00041737 = 4.3406 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164850 @ 0.0003948 = 65.0828 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 244489 @ 0.00041601 = 101.7099 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120900 @ 0.00040884 = 49.4288 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00042029 = 25.6797 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41750 @ 0.00041219 = 17.2089 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00041835 = 10.0404 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83249 @ 0.00041835 = 34.8272 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.00041305 = 28.5831 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154900 @ 0.000423 = 65.5227 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103400 @ 0.00042664 = 44.1146 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00041344 = 19.8038 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148074 @ 0.00041362 = 61.2464 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51447 @ 0.0004274 = 21.9884 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190603 @ 0.00042824 = 81.6238 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38438 @ 0.00042824 = 16.4607 BTC [+]
cazalla: BingoBoingo, looks like they finally had the coins made one of your articles mentiond a few months back
assbot: Islamic State mints its own 'Islamic Dinar' coins - Telegraph ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.00042676 = 22.4049 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Oh phuctor passed a million moduli << age, cave, tace!
mircea_popescu: 500mn digits worth of P too.
jurov: did anyone with phuctored key write to you?
mircea_popescu: at least a coupla wrote to me to derp, back during the slashdot censorship days
mircea_popescu: punkman1 i'm frankly surprised at the hefty chunk left in the 90 days range. i think that graph is bogus, and the real graph is a lot more like f'(x) = f(x)^3.something, where we take probabilities as from 0 to 1.
mircea_popescu: cazalla aww i was looking for a "as BingoBoingo said...". shame on 'em.
mircea_popescu: and what a shitty design.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107860 @ 0.00042756 = 46.1166 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45682 @ 0.00042853 = 19.5761 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Councillor Karen Danczuk, wife of Labour MP for Rochdale, Simon, has been tweeting selfies that show her cleavage. The 31-year-old councillor for Kingsway, who also runs a deli with her husband, has uploaded photos of her cleavage in a bikini and another of her bare legs."
mircea_popescu: o noes, the bare legs of some rural wench. england prevails!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 223000 @ 0.00041603 = 92.7747 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "With its subversive political allegory - including a terrorist as the leading man - and clear-cut leftist sensibilities, V for Vendetta is the kind of movie that the conservative right will have a field day with."
mircea_popescu: ahahaha WUT.
mircea_popescu: check it out, idiots imagine everything that happens is by idiots, about idiots, for idiots.
mircea_popescu: such a novel development.
assbot: England Prevails | The Occidental Observer - White Identity, Interests, and Culture ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "The problem, of course, is that this is also the United Kingdom in the world we live in right now."
mircea_popescu: nazi[onal] socialism being, of course, just another socialism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102900 @ 0.00041892 = 43.1069 BTC [+]
cazalla: so where are the pics?
jurov: anime fangirls would kill for these eyes
cazalla: she appears to be posting more pics in response to that article..
assbot: Photos et vidéos de Karen Danczuk (@KarenDanczuk) | Twitter ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i forgot to ask.. did the spammer login with the password or hammer login with various passwords until he got in?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73273 @ 0.00040923 = 29.9855 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: the latter. there's two different things killing you if you try too many times.
mircea_popescu: from the logs, at some random point he just shows up, logs in and fills my buffers.
mircea_popescu: jurov right huh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146077 @ 0.00040723 = 59.4869 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00041171 = 20.0091 BTC [+]
assbot: Mr. Talented | 🇺🇸 America has taught Me that each Human being has 36,000 days to do something extraordinary. In less than 2,000 days, I've independently launched a start-up, wrote a book, obtained celebrity contacts & most importantly reached YOU. Here's my business card: 30-sec ... ( )
funkenstein_: blogger claims feelings matter, doesn't know travel or whores exist, kills self
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140122 @ 0.00041511 = 58.166 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: "Everyday people hurt my feelings and its not fair. " lol k
mircea_popescu: mr talented is now my an hero.
cazalla: damn, he was 0 for 1500 with asian women
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38074 @ 0.00040388 = 15.3773 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90961 @ 0.00040165 = 36.5345 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: << he did speak of wanting wife, not whores..
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 12:33:27; funkenstein_: blogger claims feelings matter, doesn't know travel or whores exist, kills self
funkenstein_: asciilifform, good point
funkenstein_: despite his inability to adjust strategy, he has 1) identified a common stupidity 2) taken action
asciilifeform: wai wut
funkenstein_: i grasp at straws here this morning
funkenstein_: Next time, Teach English in Guangzhou
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whores make the only sort of wife worth having tho.
asciilifeform: apparently mr elevator did not think so..
mircea_popescu: what did he know.
asciilifeform tries to find example of similar hanging in the literature, but can only recall the 1890s electromechanical contraption built in new york prison by one fella, for his own (official!) hanging
asciilifeform: << idk if this is still a thing. (who wants to 'marry the u.s. passport' today?)
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 13:13:53; funkenstein_: Next time, Teach English in Guangzhou
asciilifeform: or perhaps he didn't care for ~that~ kind of whore either
mircea_popescu: wife not being much of a whore is a little like husband not being much of a soldier.
asciilifeform: how's that work
mircea_popescu: !up Eulorian
mircea_popescu: hello there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part ?
asciilifeform: 'not much of a whore like not much of a soldier'
mircea_popescu: they're both a sort of selflessness.
mircea_popescu: selfish people don't marry well.
Eulorian: good
Eulorian: in spanish please
mircea_popescu: habla espanol ?
asciilifeform: << probably time to throw it back into phuctoring gear soon. i was gonna wait for 1M submissions.
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 11:22:33; mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Oh phuctor passed a million moduli << age, cave, tace!
asciilifeform: 292336/1298527 presently (sks set, walking backwards from end)
mircea_popescu: yo tambien, un poco.
Eulorian: entre porque me llamo la atencion un titulo en la web
Eulorian: que decia bitcoin y mmorpg
mircea_popescu: ah, si, Eulora.
Eulorian: pero veo que el juego es para linux o estoy errado
mircea_popescu: ay windows tambien.
assbot: Eulora 0.1.0 for Windows - serialized delusions ... ( )
Eulorian: donde puedo entrar porque entre a una web que solo tenia archivos tar.gz
Eulorian: que creo q son extensiones linux
Eulorian: a bien
Eulorian: y popescu quien eres?
Eulorian: es tuyo el juego?
mircea_popescu: ;;google mircea popescu
gribble: Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <>; Romanian Bitcoin baron 'stumps up $20k to keep OpenBSD's lights ...: <>; MPEx - Bitcoin Wiki: <>
mircea_popescu: ^ ver aya
Eulorian: ok gracias
kakobrekla: nemos problemos?
mircea_popescu: hahaha nemos.
mircea_popescu: dja mean "no mas" = not any more, or do you mean nema, as in, none ? :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146018 @ 0.00041443 = 60.5142 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ;;google Nema Problema
gribble: Croatian Phrases - Nema Problema - Croatia Report: <>; Nema problema (1984) - IMDb: <>; Nema problema (1984 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>
mircea_popescu: anyway, funny how slavic spanish is. i suppose it's due to them both starting with s.
mircea_popescu: which is a small amount of con-fusion.
punkman: "They value "the right technical decision" over human relationships and it doesn't seem to occur to them that the right outcome might be the one that makes someone else happy, or is the most diplomatic, even if it isn't "technically right"."
assbot: Ask HN: Do you work with dogmatic, stubborn developers/sysadmins? Are YOU one? | Hacker News ... ( )
punkman: maybe if you stopped breaking things they'd like you
assbot: The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: anyone who values "personal relationships" / "people themselves" / whatever other feel good idiotarianism over "abstract rules" / "technical" / blabla is ipso facto an idiot.
mircea_popescu: the entire trade is predicated on "in the contest between what's right and what's pleasant - i pick the pleasant"
mircea_popescu: and when the fuck did "hacker" news turn into pink collar support group already. if you don't like working with the people that make the things you like to use, go webcam.
mircea_popescu: and complain about how the speed of light is unfair and the camera view should be less made out of straight lines.
jurov: yes, for example chetty should stubborny say that eulora codebase stinks and she must redo it completely?
midnightmagic: looks like a high-quality HN trollpost
mats: usual hn fare...
jurov: i got an impression mp reels against something different that the OP
mircea_popescu: jurov haha ask chetty sometime how many times this redo completely already happened :D
midnightmagic: lol look at his post history. dude's a deliberate troll man
mircea_popescu: i think the loot code was rewritten fully about four times. this doesn't count all the times it got partially rewritten.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you know that theory that past a certain level of stupidity the two are indistinguishable yes ?
mircea_popescu: what she means when she says things like " she did not really know this part/the client thing in that much detail" is simply that well... she didn't have to rewrite it three-four times yet
punkman: I don't see this deliberate trolling you mention
midnightmagic: The other markers of stupidity are absent; his grammar is nearly perfect, and the observations are ironic and deeply philosophical -- *as troll posts*.
mircea_popescu is too meh over the entire ycombinator kaboodle to go look at hn.
assbot: 2015 News and Information - NSA's Farmers Market ... ( )
mircea_popescu: sunglasses in the bath!
mircea_popescu: punkman ahaha someone should just replace the pics with pot and stuff, then republish it.
punkman: I see your sunglasses and raise you a monkey
mircea_popescu: haha what's that on the monkey's shoulder
midnightmagic: sunglasses in the bath would work better if there was actual sunlight which made the sunglasses a requirement
mircea_popescu: or if there wasn't steam, which is the bane of every glasses wearer.
punkman: dude sucks at tying rope too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91014 @ 0.00041185 = 37.4841 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: finally, smoking in a steamy room also sucks. both because wet tobacco and because the steam-smoke mixture is like... ew.
mircea_popescu: basically, he is very bad at everything he attempts, and attempts a lot of things at the same time.
mircea_popescu: he should be a web developer.
punkman: probably is
mircea_popescu: looks more like an internet marketard to me.
punkman: same thing, no?
assbot: Russian 'troll factory' sued for underpayment and labour violations | World news | The Guardian ... ( )
mircea_popescu: oic. shame on them for hiring locally. there are some washington "civil servants" married to "entrepreneurs" that'd eagerly sell russia on the same process gavincoin used!
mircea_popescu: worked so well, too. and it wasn't even too expensive!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173210 @ 0.00040944 = 70.9191 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165000 @ 0.00041609 = 68.6549 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: that would require more middlemen, with money leaking out at every step
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116150 @ 0.00040347 = 46.863 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: joint american/russian embezzlement force.. now that's something to behold
jurov: !mpif
assbot: F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021444 B (Total: 426.05 B). Delta: 0.09 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;calc 0.0002144/1.05
gribble: 0.00020419047619
jurov: ;;calc 0.0002144/1.01
gribble: 0.000212277227723
jurov: ;;calc 0.0002144*1.01
gribble: 0.000216544
jurov: ;;calc 0.0002144*1.05
gribble: 0.00022512
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99900 @ 0.00040165 = 40.1248 BTC [-]
shinohai: When you forget to hire a proofreader ....
jurov: more like proofthinker
jurov: pedophile lobby spreading anti russian propaganda, news at 11
mircea_popescu: not terribly inaccurate a drawing, either.
mircea_popescu: they're welcome to it.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: re any suggestions for 'starter' isolation transformers ?
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 18:17:10; asciilifeform: (yet another reason to run on a double-converter 'ups' or at least an isolator transformer!)
pete_dushenski: i can't tell them apart and some are $100, some $300
lobbes: 'Also in order to have all 7 billion people use the blockchain directly' << hehe good one
pete_dushenski: and the double-converters ups are all $1k+ !!1
mircea_popescu: lotta metal in em
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: and any thoughts on mitigating this concern are also welcome
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 18:18:35; asciilifeform: did i write here re: how a keyboard (esp. a decent 1980s 'ps/2' one) can be 'heard' from across the street ?
pete_dushenski: assuming 'model m' falls into the aforementioned camp
kakobrekla: it does
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: no doubt they're worth it
mircea_popescu: we had some arguments re kbds, came to not much.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: but seems like overkill for home desktop
mircea_popescu: tho i suspect the cheapo plastic bump kbds are a little quieter than the model ms
pete_dushenski: audibly quieter, perhaps not electromagnetically ?
mircea_popescu: i meant the latter.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla oh, not at all ?
mircea_popescu: a well, there goes the irony.
kakobrekla: no, the usb is quiet(er)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91600 @ 0.00040165 = 36.7911 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: than ps2 ? lower voltage ?
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: cheers
kakobrekla: perhaps a ps2 isolatior or batter powered kboard
kakobrekla: battery
pete_dushenski: what about effect of basic ps2-usb converter ?
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: or is that what you mean by 'ps2 isolator' ?
kakobrekla: if its made properly it should be good afaik but dont take my word for it
mircea_popescu: i doubt battery powered antenna is any weaker than mains powered antenna
pete_dushenski: ^heh i was thinking about this eulora question, time to test my answers against the back page !
kakobrekla: pete_dushenski the leak is happening via gnd, so if gnd is directly connected to usb gnd, i think the leak continiues
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski haha jit.
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: right..
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol the window was probably a few weeks. tops.
kakobrekla: i havent tried but it not impossible a different cable would fix this
kakobrekla: at least to a some degree
kakobrekla: dunno, not the expert.
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: nor am i, i appreciate the input.
assbot: Hammond Isolation Transformer 171F 110V | eBay ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85518 @ 0.00041396 = 35.401 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: pete_dushenski just wait for ascii to piss on my suggestions.
pete_dushenski: such is the risk of conversing where experts can see you.
pete_dushenski: i'm sure he'll take a megaton dump on that little canadian ebay toy
pete_dushenski: << look like the result of one of those souvenir penny-pressing machines at zoos, museums, etc.
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 11:11:14; cazalla: BingoBoingo, looks like they finally had the coins made one of your articles mentiond a few months back
assbot: Penny Machines USA Products ... ( )
pete_dushenski: lulzy thing is that these machines still exist in canada even though 'penny' was phased out last year
pete_dushenski: because inflation !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179400 @ 0.00040162 = 72.0506 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: 'And this is what I cal disruptive.' <<
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << i had a 'Sola EPC 210-60.' then replaced with gigantic doublecoverter ups, 'liebert'
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 15:37:13; pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: re any suggestions for 'starter' isolation transformers ?
assbot: Sola EPC 210 60 Electronic Power Conditioner 120V AC 1000VA B463951 | eBay ... ( )
ascii_field: if getting the latter, find a secondhand unit with missing or rotten battery, replace by yourself (100 to 200 usd, assemble the pack manually)
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: thoughts on the 'hammond' unit linked above ?
pete_dushenski: that sola's $155 just to ship :(
jurov: well... sure it does not have blown output? can it be returned if so?
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: the hammond thing looks like just isolator, not stabilizer
ascii_field: (no gigantic caps)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00041396 = 9.8316 BTC [+]
ascii_field: why did you want this again ?
pete_dushenski: so that meta-lisard-nsa doesn't read my keystrokes through the mains ?
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: they're reading them from black van, cheaper atm
jurov: (i have replaced battery in my cheapo ups, tested it with 40W bulb... in shock watched the visible jitter, and it put out ~160V instead of 220)
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: and what about tmrw, when this moment has come and gone ?
pete_dushenski wants to plan ahead, prepare for future, build warchest.
ascii_field always thought 'warchest' meant gigantic bag of money (or, at least, ammo)
pete_dushenski: that's 'treasurechest'
pete_dushenski: and it's for one-eyed pirates with x-marked maps
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 15:41:10; mircea_popescu: tho i suspect the cheapo plastic bump kbds are a little quieter than the model ms
ascii_field: it's the scan matrix that is 'heard'
ascii_field: 100% same in all pc keyboards.
punkman: how would you mitigate that?
ascii_field: punkman: there is no 'off the shelf' consumer appliance that will do a lick of good here.
ascii_field: you could make own keyboard using fiber strain gauges, for instance.
punkman: that sounds like a pita
ascii_field: if want 'not pita' - surrender now.
ascii_field: surrender is the ultimate 'user friendly' (2nd only to death)
BingoBoingo: Muh Oppression as a 'Dukes of Hazard' fan
BingoBoingo: White Fandom matters
ascii_field: wai wat
ascii_field: << in the linked article, yes. in old thread of mine, i was describing conventional radio leak
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 15:52:32; kakobrekla: pete_dushenski the leak is happening via gnd, so if gnd is directly connected to usb gnd, i think the leak continiues
ascii_field: (linked article also describes optical snooping using mechanical vibration & reflections of sunlight etc)
ascii_field: i will describe what is probably the cheapest way to make a 'stealth keyboard' . but no one will like it.
kakobrekla: rf from ps2 cable ?
pete_dushenski: laser keyboard !
kakobrekla: rf from switches
ascii_field: kakobrekla: from scan grid
ascii_field: so, consider a kaleidoscope. copper barrel, like victorian telescopes etc. eyepiece - glass, indium oxide (scavenge from old lcd; electrically conductive)
ascii_field: inside - led matrix 8x8, non-scanned, displays one letter.
ascii_field: device picks where in alphabet to start - at random (trng)
assbot: Vice President Cheney with President George W. Bush, Part 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! ... ( )
ascii_field: user peers in eyepiece, turns wheel
mircea_popescu: why not just have an array of em
ascii_field: when correct letter appears, presses it.
mircea_popescu: and just press the one you like
ascii_field: it is important that nothing can be determined by looking at user!
ascii_field: from outside
ascii_field: because you do not know where in the alphabet it began, each time.
mircea_popescu: how about getting a picture of a whole keyboard rather than a key then
ascii_field: what's the point of having so many pixels
mircea_popescu: so they're enough for everyone
ascii_field: 8x8 non-scanned is practical. beyond that (e.g. graphical lcd) you now have a scanning matrix!
ascii_field: these are rf-noisy.
ascii_field: and hardly fit in telescope.
ascii_field: brass captain's telescope.
kakobrekla: im sure they will come, but would be funny if they will come with the unlikely usb sniffer instead of ps2 while the gang makes noise on ps2. sorta what happened in bosnia >
assbot: 1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
ascii_field ~did warn~ that no one will like this keyboard.
ascii_field: but it is 'secure'
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the part where the serbs were breaking nato codes is never given much airplay.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: it also would be logical for whatever consumes the sooper s33kr17 text string (e.g., salted password hasher) to actually live in that brass tube.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu true, id say its more likely nato self leak, but anyway, the radar thing is quite lulzy
ascii_field: phun phakt: detecting 'stealth' airplane is easier today than ever
ascii_field: because of the cell tower shadow it creates
mircea_popescu: "stealth plane" is a dead idea.
ascii_field: still works great for original purpose for which was built (siphon of usg budget to good ol'boys, what did you think it was)
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 08:31:34; cazalla: looks like google has shitcanned confederate flags
mircea_popescu: ascii_field a magical toothpick works just as well for that purpose.
assbot: Quadro QRS 250G Detector - the Quadro Tracker - The Skeptic's Dictionary - ... ( )
ascii_field: (magic toothpick, approximately)
ascii_field: state of the art re: minimality, short of plain old $trillion-in-paper-cash-'missing'-in-iraq sort of siphon
mircea_popescu: pretty good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00040827 = 6.0424 BTC [-]
williamdunne: For those that still use Twitter
assbot: Scoopbot The Third (@ScoopbotRevived) | Twitter ... ( )
williamdunne: Will publish anything that he posts here on twitter also
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't get this distinction you propose. so "unlike the cryptocurrency Bitcoin, Gold seized immediately preserves its full exchange value.", what's this mean, that people paid less for faux Bitcoin the USMS was pretending to be selling than for faux Bitcoin pirate was pretending to be going to pay them ?
mircea_popescu: no such thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127750 @ 0.00040827 = 52.1565 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: It means that if you seize some bitcoin and send it immediately to herpity derp service they might turp their way into "returning it" out of some misguided notion of ownership. Gotta at least use a solid mixer like BitBet
mats: this is not comprehensible
assbot: CoinJar COO Ryan Zhou Caught Impersonating Dice Site's Developer | Qntra ... ( )
BingoBoingo: It isn't an actual property of Bitcoins. It is a failing of the social structuring of the stupid.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it makes no sense at all.
BingoBoingo: Mebbe I need to think about this moar
mircea_popescu: someone could steal your gold after you sent it just as well, what's that to do with the gold ?
mircea_popescu: most of the gold the spanish sent to spain ended up in london.
BingoBoingo rereads original ISIS article
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: Ah, I was refering to the need to get the keys or the coins, as in you can't take a laptop "full of Bitcoin" and have seized the coins: "Bitcoin on the other hand demands not only mere physical possession, but actual control of a set of keys necessary to transfer value. While gold is vulnerable to a simple change of possession, Bitcoin requires a more difficult but possible intellectual change of possession."
BingoBoingo: ANd in there is a link to
assbot: Loper OS » Practical Cryptoanalysis of Elliptic Curve DSA. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: do you basically mean that bitcoin can not be held without tools, whereas gold can, or at least to a higher degree ?
mircea_popescu: this is a very different thing.
ascii_field: pretty easy to 'hold without tools'
ascii_field: brainwallet.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but there's a minimum brain size required.
mircea_popescu: there isn't a minimum hand size required by gold.
ascii_field: on the contrary
ascii_field: gold needs bigger fist than anyone has.
ascii_field: (to hold with same tightness as btc)
mircea_popescu: this is true. nevertheless, bitcoin is very elitist by its nature, which flows from this.
mircea_popescu: ie, it enforces a "must be this tall to ride" limit rather than allowing people to delude themselves about it
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2015 17:00:45; ascii_field: it is the ultimate 'iq test'
ascii_field: speaking of 'brainwallet', mircea_popescu's picture of usg prison where 'lifetime pension' is probably not long for this world.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> do you basically mean that bitcoin can not be held without tools, whereas gold can, or at least to a higher degree ? << At the time more physical possession of gold is different from possession of bitcoin
ascii_field: it will be replaced - question of ~when~, not ~if~ - by something like an oubliette with a vending machine
ascii_field: a meal costs, say, 5-10btc
mircea_popescu: hahaha good luck with that.
ascii_field: it won't be for ~every~ schmuck
ascii_field: just for the ones 'too kewl for school'
mircea_popescu: i don't buy from paypal, you expect me to trade with your vending machine ? wtf is this, "free market the way we like it" ?
ascii_field: machine will be marked 'mean - 5btc. skipped arse dilation session - 10.'
ascii_field: or somethinglikethat
mircea_popescu: for the record, that system already exists, for wall street pencildicks.
ascii_field: yeah but this'll be 100% automated
ascii_field: no need for fallible human torturer
mircea_popescu: about half the people currently working there have this episode in their life, "give us all your money and we'll agree to not let you work for x years"
mircea_popescu: it's pretty automated as it is. look through wall street "prosecutions" sometime.
mircea_popescu: the reason there's nothing left there but crooks is precisely that the onl;y deal available is "i try to steal as much as i can, if you catch me you get it and i take a vacation"
ascii_field: today 'vacation', tomorrow - esp. if they suspect you haven't in fact given 'it all' - the vending machine.
ascii_field: this is what being a prisoner ~means~ - you are a plaything for someone else's amusement
ascii_field: to use in laboratory for experiments, if they like.
mircea_popescu: heh. you have a very idealized view of marriage.
mircea_popescu: never works that way in practice.
ascii_field: worked great in cn (jp jailers experimenting with 'what internal organs does this fella ~really~ need' etc)
ascii_field: and in germany
ascii_field: 'vending machine' is inevitable because, unlike torquemada's chambers, it ~can be built by 'pencil dicks'~
ascii_field: like washing machine. throw schmuck in, get btc out, eventually remove dessicated corpse, rinse, repeat.
ascii_field: everybody stands a risk of being taken alive, and ought to be prepared mentally for this device.
mats: voluntold organ harvesting is still an ongoing thing in cn
ascii_field: mats: works great with above setup. optionally jailer doesn't wait for you to starve, a few wks without any signal from vending machine & you go to the harversing table (wide awake naturally)
ascii_field: *harvesting
mats: makes a lot of economic sense. why waste good meat.
ascii_field: but in the future, death in captivity will be mainly about being 'helped to remember' brainwallets.
ascii_field: and only secondarily about meat
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: for famous (or otherwise 'ransomable') folks, machine will have an externally-advertised btc addr
ascii_field: perhaps painted on outside wall of the jail
mats: lol
chetty: ascii_field should write sci-fi
ascii_field: nah, hanbot ought to write this one
ascii_field: prequel to 'shall be delivered' perhaps
ascii_field: i don't have a prayer of doing half as good a job as hanbot on this one.
mats: 'donate 4btc to 1Alf153X to rotate asciilifeform's cell over shark pit'
mats: '5btc for quadrant with dogs'
ascii_field: '2btc for snakepit'
ascii_field: ^ this'll be for candidates for 'national 5 minute hate'
ascii_field: infamous 't3rr0r1st4s' etc
mircea_popescu: voluntold lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 417693 @ 0.00040776 = 170.3185 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: anyway, nothing scifi here, it's more like emofi
mircea_popescu: clarke wrote scifi. orwell wrote emofi. not the same thing at all.
ascii_field: it's like orwell's 'telescreen' thing. inevitable tech
ascii_field: was well-obvious even then.
thestringpuller: didn't tv's exist in 1948?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00040157 = 14.0148 BTC [-]
ascii_field: incidentally, usg - like the regime portrayed by orwell - spends $maxint on attempts to 'read minds'. not always even laughably stupid - the mri 'has seen this object or not before' trick appears to actually work
ascii_field: and could, in combination with something like the letter wheel described earlier, 'help remember wallet'
ascii_field: (and before someone chimes in with 'so don't use brainwallet' - ~every~ wallet that you can get to, but mr schmuck can't, because you know where you buried it, etc. is in fact a 'brainwallet')
ascii_field: i'd much like to hear a persuasive argument re: why all of the above won't happen.
mats: my memory palace is dark and full of terrors
punkman: because it blows up trying to verify all transactions
ascii_field: if it doesn't verify, it didn't happen in bitcoin ?
ascii_field: does the ~genuine~, honest blockchain actually contain blocks that never verified ?
ascii_field: (how?!)
punkman: they verified at some combination of bitcoind and openssl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91944 @ 0.00041442 = 38.1034 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << probably ought to be either updated or tossed ?
assbot: 0.5.3-todos [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142985 @ 0.00040156 = 57.4171 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190400 @ 0.00041989 = 79.9471 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being. the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.
mod6: at a later time when we have everything setup for a checkpoint configuration file, then we can revisit.
ascii_field: i'm all for having them in there minus the 'skip checks prior to checkpoints' thing
ascii_field: skipping sig verifications ever, for any reason, is braindamaged
mod6: wher is this now?
ascii_field: mod6: the original (in there now) checkpoint code
mod6: the part you're talking about is in main.cpp right?
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
assbot: White Americans Are Biggest Terror Threat in U.S.: Study - NBC News ... ( )
punkman: << when I removed the IFs there it blew up before block 150k, wonder if it works for anyone else
mod6: ascii_field: so you're saying you'd like to just git rid of line 939?
ben_vulpes: where does fblock get set?
mod6: where it's called
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2015 04:26:05; asciilifeform: is the only place where fBlock is true
mod6: check out line 435
mod6: yeah, line 1099 sets it to true.
ben_vulpes: what happens if the blockchain contains invalid blocks?
ben_vulpes: coffins for everyone involved with checkpoints?
ben_vulpes: not that they're not zombies already, but...
ascii_field: they already earned the coffins
ben_vulpes: my point is that they're still walking.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130100 @ 0.00039889 = 51.8956 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: at the very least i want to know ~why~ invalid block made it into the chain
ascii_field: and cui bono
ascii_field: and whether it is actually cryptographically invalid, or only protocol-invalid
ascii_field: (i.e. invalid on account of a field that can be corrected today without changing validity of signature)
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: iirc this got lost in the noise of the great wedge thing at the time
ascii_field: and was forgotten when bdb locks patch discovered
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 369950 @ 0.00041903 = 155.0201 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153350 @ 0.00042356 = 64.9529 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: So anyway, we'll have to remember this when we revist the Checkpoints issue. My patch will be rejected then, and we'll come up with something that gets rid of line 939 as well as pulling the checkpoints themselves out of checkpoints.cpp and into a separate config file.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 236211 @ 0.00039808 = 94.0309 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169700 @ 0.00039689 = 67.3522 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Bananas, Sardines and Sharks - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173300 @ 0.00041641 = 72.1639 BTC [+]
assbot: NATO Ramps Up Response to Russia - WSJ ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122100 @ 0.00041673 = 50.8827 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: should be interesting.
fluffypony: oh good
jurov: lol
jurov: on slightly related note, we hatched with thestringpuller a scheme for poor USians to take hold of X.EUR
jurov: when it works, we'll let you know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44991 @ 0.00039617 = 17.8241 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: (or you can inquire within if impatient)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92200 @ 0.00041363 = 38.1367 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i think that's gonna be the bitcoin thing - we're here to surprise you.
mircea_popescu: re rm_checkpoints, iirc mod6 has it.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> coffins for everyone involved with checkpoints? << this is necessarily true. bitcoin hardforked once.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: secret hardfork?
nubbins`: is testnet still forked?
mircea_popescu: nothing secret about it, satoshi did it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95755 @ 0.000396 = 37.919 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: btw any reason not to amputate 'testnet' ?
nubbins`: with no wallet, what's the worst you'd do to it?
nubbins`: relay a tx?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23317 @ 0.00039559 = 9.224 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the mystery of meat : slut in seethrough outfit looks better than naked.
ascii_field: nubbins`: in point of fact, therealbitcoin includes wallet
mircea_popescu: ascii_field iirc the agreement was that it can go, as it serves no useful purpose nor has for a long time - but not a priority. we're atm working on getting the priorities in AND RUNNING
nubbins`: ascii_field don't mind me 8)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no argument
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: other than the observation that shorter -> simpler -> everything is slightly less retarded and easier to make sense of
mircea_popescu: the and running part includes incontrovertibly a step where a page exists online that is substantially identical to
assbot: Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the "navigate to /bitcoin" pointers y compris.
mircea_popescu: jam - tomorrow. today, this.
thestringpuller: it will be interesting the posts on reddit when you kill gavincoin just like doge mircea_popescu
thestringpuller: i wonder if they'll call you a tyrant
punkman: mircea_popescu: re:blender, why send paypal instead of btc (or even a wire)?
mircea_popescu: i've been a girl before.
mircea_popescu: punkman because a) when i first asked, their idea was "buy a mug" ; b) the link i finally fished out did not include any reference either i or fluffypony found (see it in logs) - they have A DIFFERENT unlinked page for this purpose
nubbins`: thought it was the other way around
mircea_popescu: and c) wire for 50 euro seems iffy, to me.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 432300 @ 0.00039423 = 170.4256 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` s/girl/called a girl/ mr nubbins bedalins!
nubbins`: nubbins bedalins, is that like amelia bedelia?
thestringpuller: they are pushing the blender cloud service pretty hard these days
punkman: what's the cloud service for, rendering?
mircea_popescu: yeah. makes a lot of sense, from what i've seen.
mircea_popescu: anyway - this is what the vanishing 1% intelligent gpu bitcoin miners did with their rigs.
thestringpuller: punkman: no it's like MSDN but for blender revolging around an open source movie
punkman: thestringpuller: dafuq
nubbins`: it's like adobe CC but for blender?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller wut ?
thestringpuller: Blender Cloud is a high quality web service in which we share all data of our previous films, all our training videos and files, and a continuous stream of data from the Gooseberry project.
thestringpuller: Blender Cloud subscribers can watch the creation progress closely, share this with others, learn from it, and even contribute back to it.
punkman: derp
trinque: it's like... facebook, but for blender users, y'see
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure i saw rendering prices etc.
nubbins`: so it's like dvd extras
nubbins`: cool, where'd i put my money
assbot: Blender & V-Ray rendering on a fast Render Farm - Render Street ... ( )
mircea_popescu: apparently that was unrelated.
cazalla: <<< bananas cheap? they were around $15/kg a few years ago down under (on account of storms destroying the banana growing regions and the fact bananas cannot be imported into australia)
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 19:35:01; Naphex:
mircea_popescu: dude bananas are like 1 dollar / kg worldwide.
cazalla: about $2.99/kg atm but every few years the storms destroy the plantations and up the price goes
cazalla: that is for cavendish, lady fingers are around $7.50-$10/kg
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: What is the drink you have in your blender picture?
mircea_popescu: that is actually a mexican sundae. except with cognac.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98200 @ 0.00041306 = 40.5625 BTC [+]
williamdunne: That sounds pretty nice
nubbins`: "My boss wouldn't accept Bitcoin. I have since quit my job"
williamdunne: On that note:
williamdunne: bitcoin-logo-plainBitcoin
williamdunne: Blender Foundation can receive Bitcoin donations made using the following address:
williamdunne: 17orEh51ab8HoU7g8Ezwcp76jCpeL7PabJ
nubbins` weeps as his sides crumble and fall
nubbins`: "My boss wouldn't accept Bitcoin. I have since quit my job, set up a competitor"
nubbins`: your poor boss ;p
williamdunne: Yeah that was about as derpy as it gets
nubbins`: of course the fucking dog dick is a "web designer"
nubbins`: someone should do a browser extension that changes all instances of "boss" in /r/bitcoin to "parents"
mircea_popescu: lol im sure his parents took bitcoin
mircea_popescu: also leaves, bits of their own front yard, inept 6yo drawings on bits of wallpaper etc
williamdunne: In fairness, unemployment rates are sub 10% while the rates of loozers are well over 50%
trinque: "mom you stupid whore! where's my hot pocket?!"
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: my mom woulda put me in the ground had I spoken like that to her as a kid
ascii_field: << wai wat?! we're swallowing usg stats now ?
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 21:27:00; williamdunne: In fairness, unemployment rates are sub 10% while the rates of loozers are well over 50%
williamdunne: ascii_field: nah, but USG stats are what, 4%? I reckon 10% is about right
ascii_field: (usg counts as 'employed' anyone of working age who isn't collecting state-funded 'unemployment pension')
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129574 @ 0.00040386 = 52.3298 BTC [-]
nubbins`: out of work and not looking? you're not unemployed.
nubbins`: STATS FTW
trinque: thestringpuller: I'm a firm believer in post-natal abortion rights.
williamdunne: nubbins`: Wouldn't that be fair anyway?
williamdunne: I always thought the stat was meant to reflect those looking for work who can't find it
mircea_popescu: i thought unemployed is "hasn't made 1mn clicks on fb stuff this month"
williamdunne: Thats employed, surely?
mircea_popescu: better get the pm request special powers to investigate the content of people clicks
mircea_popescu: otherwise we will never be able to answer this dilemma.
nubbins`: i think that's included in the next omnibus bill
nubbins`: gotta get it going before mulcair gets elected
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162940 @ 0.00041371 = 67.4099 BTC [+] {3}
lobbes: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47806 @ 0.00039302 = 18.7887 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: trinque: that's called 'infanticide' and will apparently kill your chances with teh ladies
pete_dushenski: not unlike williamdunne telling them they belong in the kitchen, i suppose
trinque: pete_dushenski: so I hear, yet primate infanticide is most certainly a thing.
pete_dushenski: insect too
pete_dushenski: throughout the animal kingdom, really
williamdunne: Yes, infanticide might be slightly better
trinque: I've seen more than a few things published on whether "sudden infant death syndrome" (obviously a questionable concept on its own) is a more palatable "diagnosis" for infanticide
pete_dushenski: trinque that'd make sense y'know
mircea_popescu: !up kenburnes
mircea_popescu: eh from what i've heard, they convicted a buncha women for what actually was bona fide kids dying
mircea_popescu: in here kenburnes
mircea_popescu: how goes.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu go figure that the courts would find personal responsbility where there is none to counterbalance their continued lenience when it's actually there, as with 'insanity' pleas.
trinque: yeah, I can see how the thing resembles other media-fueled panics
mircea_popescu: i suppose on the surface "sudden infant death" seems insanity, as adults don't do anything like that.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, spontaneous abortion is a thing, and obviously children inhabit some sort of continuum between that and adulthood, so...
mircea_popescu: who knows, nature's complex enough.
pete_dushenski: and the scope of science such as it exists currently is woefully inadequate to study the matter
mircea_popescu: not that inadequate. iirc it's the leading cause of death in small children in the western world.
pete_dushenski: i can see the epidemiology headline now : "sids linked to living in suburbia"
mircea_popescu: but so far most of the productions on the topic are "smoking is bad and vaccines good mkay"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72900 @ 0.00042345 = 30.8695 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: trying to control variables in any such sids experiment would require insane amounts of data and coordination
cazalla: <<< they kill other people's kids, not their own though yeah?
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 22:00:51; trinque: pete_dushenski: so I hear, yet primate infanticide is most certainly a thing.
punkman: dunno about humans, but baby goat is delicious
mircea_popescu: baby sheep's even better.
mircea_popescu spent his decade or so of acquaintance with indian cuisine eating pretty much nothing but lamb.
BingoBoingo: Goat and lamb both delicious, as are suckling pigs
punkman: kinda hard to distinguish baby goat/lamb after cooking, at least for my taste buds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121839 @ 0.00042345 = 51.5927 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: punkman: The difference is in the preparation that takes it to that point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30046 @ 0.00042656 = 12.8164 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo "the later is simply for hire" << two t's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00042656 = 5.0974 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Fixed
pete_dushenski: cool beans. i'm outie. laters!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41980 @ 0.00042725 = 17.936 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 281592 @ 0.0004296 = 120.9719 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: Logged on 24-06-2015 22:17:37; pete_dushenski: i can see the epidemiology headline now : "sids linked to living in suburbia"
asciilifeform: ;;google sarah blaffer hrdy
gribble: Sarah Blaffer Hrdy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Sarah B. Hrdy — Anthropology: <>; An Interview with Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on Mother Nature - Scientific ...: < (1 more message)
asciilifeform: ^ has book, 'mother nature', where the thesis is laid out. recommended.
asciilifeform: ^ mega-review
asciilifeform: ^ i posted it to 'reddit' when the latter was still readable, in '07, and for a while it held, i think, the 'vote' #1 record on that site
phf: so i'm running thermonuked version: at 180k blockcount, i got 44526 bastards, 44007 of which have been eventually accepted with an average 3 minute delay.
phf: bitcoind keeps rerequesting same bastard blocks before there's enough blockchain to accept it, on average i got 3-4 rejections for the same block, with a few worst cases of ~100 rerequests
asciilifeform: phf: read the src. bitcoind never 'requests bastard block', it requests 'next blocks' and ends up with a great many that aren't the precise next block we want
asciilifeform: 'So she gave a preliminary paper on the subject in 1976, suggesting that more research was needed to explain how this behavior could possibly have evolved in primates, only to be interrupted in mid talk by an audience member, a prominent expert in her field. He stood up, tried to stop her from finishing reading her paper, announced that primate females absolutely do not ever murder their own children, and that if she had obser
asciilifeform: ved a primate colony in which primate females were killing their own children, it could only be because of something she had done to them; she must have committed some horrible breach of experimental ethics that so deranged these monkeys that she had driven them insane enough to do something that no monkey had ever done before. He then stormed out of the talk and went directly to the scientific press to denounce her for whatev
asciilifeform: er it was that she had done to that monkey colony, so it probably is a good thing that she was already planning on changing fields, no?'
phf: asciilifeform: that's how i understand it, just poor wording on my part
asciilifeform: phf: so it works precisely as one might expect.
mircea_popescu: phf am i reading what you're saying correctly , "thermonuked more efficient network utilization" ?
ben_vulpes: hi phf!
ben_vulpes: good to see you again.
ben_vulpes: phf: is this on os x?
ben_vulpes: !rated phf
assbot: You rated user phf on 16-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: lisper..
phf: asciilifeform: right, no surprises there so far. i thought that maybe as blockchain grows the cumulative delay will increase, but i don't see that happening yet
phf: ben_vulpes: heya! yeah, i quit my previous job, so i have a lot more time for avocation
asciilifeform: phf: out of curiosity, what was the logic behind this hypothesis ?
phf: asciilifeform: a hunch, but also poor understanding of how blocks are requested. i thought that maybe bastards will compete for bandwidth with legitimate blocks
asciilifeform: phf: in the sense that they are uselessly occupying the pipe while they're moving - they do
asciilifeform: but 'bastard' from the perspective of a node is simply any block for which the immediate antecedent is not already on disk
asciilifeform: almost always it is a legit (main chain) block
phf: right
phf: bastard in this case is something that's will eventually be joined onto blockchain
asciilifeform: ... or not
asciilifeform: (in cases of genuine crud blocks)
asciilifeform: understand, the entire sync mechanism as-we-have-it is profoundly retarded
asciilifeform: but there is no especially attractive way of fixing this, presently
asciilifeform: all that can be done is to have a node that 1) syncs, eventually 2) allows others to sync from self 3) doesn't go around writing blank cheques for the system resources of the box it runs on and handing them out to street scum
asciilifeform: it was in the interest of (3) that i amputated the 'orphan tx' cache as well.
asciilifeform: phf: both patches are presently considered 'experimental' and not yet ratified by therealbitcoin.
phf: mircea_popescu: i guess thermonuked is less efficient network utilization, but per asciilifeform better then less efficient memory utilization which was the case pre thermonuke
asciilifeform: it is demonstrably less efficient than if there were a cache
phf: right
mircea_popescu: phf do you intend to publish results of your run anywhere ?
asciilifeform: but we presently lack a non-retarded implementation of such a cache
mircea_popescu: !up execut3
asciilifeform: (this is trickier than it appears, on account of, e.g., memory fragmentation effect)
phf: mircea_popescu: yes, will post here, once i have closer to complete blockchain
mircea_popescu: !rated phf
assbot: You have not rated phf.
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 1 New blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
phf: asciilifeform: memory fragmentation effect?
asciilifeform: !s fragging
assbot: 17 results for 'fragging' :
phf: thx
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:a15501b9b874c832d39da21bd66e77d5c726136d1695025a7edffba5998423ff
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for phf with note: New blood
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 19:48:57; asciilifeform: 2) tiny turds, stored and then reclaimed, lead to fragging
asciilifeform: ^ shortest explanation
assbot: Blender's future on Mac is in jepordy and we're looking for support ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Mac has never been a viable platform for professional production 3d work"
mircea_popescu: the things one finds on the internet. i thought mac survived principally because graphics shitheads.
ben_vulpes: illustrator != blender
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mno. that was '90s apple (the actual apple, prior to its death and devourment of corpse by 'next' corp.)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, apparently the problem is that whatever actual driver support they had, marginal as it was, they're chucking in the new osx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113288 @ 0.00042687 = 48.3592 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: today it survives principally because it is the only remaining commercial unix workstation vendor.
ben_vulpes: the graphics shitheads were illustrator users, not blender users.
mircea_popescu: apple wants to be a "mobile platform". because it worked so well for nokia, and for samsung, and for fucking blackberry.
asciilifeform: (why mac survives, i mean. rather than apple corp.)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: design happens on macs.
ben_vulpes: i went to parsons. i know.
mircea_popescu: well, it can only happen if the damned thing works./
ben_vulpes: i work with the 'agencies'. design happens on macs.
asciilifeform: design of what ?
mircea_popescu: does it ?
ben_vulpes: 'works' means different things for people who use computers vs program them.
mircea_popescu: oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ?
ben_vulpes: creation of advertisement assets.
mircea_popescu: different things these.
mircea_popescu: mno, works means works.
ben_vulpes: "photoshop runs" means works.
mircea_popescu: but runs as in what ? "can't access the driver, here's a nice welcome box" ?
asciilifeform: 'run commercial apps' + 'not microshit' == 'mac'
asciilifeform: approximately.
asciilifeform: more or less what ben_vulpes said;
mircea_popescu: if you want to process say a shader and it takes you half hour on mac and five minutes on gentoo then by this standard one would i guess say it doesn't work.
asciilifeform: it's a machine for running photoshit without being submerged in boiling cauldron of microshit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79400 @ 0.00043133 = 34.2476 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: those folks, whatever they may think, or wish the worlkd to be, still have to eat.
mircea_popescu: eating still comes out of work
asciilifeform: aha, they eat via photoshit.
asciilifeform: which runs, yes.
mircea_popescu: apparently it's not going to. i dunno whence this idea comes that something can run magically-like.
asciilifeform: wai wat
mircea_popescu: if they don't have decent driver suport they COULD make some in house abomiation circumvent it all, and so on
mircea_popescu: but it is hardly a viable solution.
asciilifeform: what was the thread about, i'm having trouble telling
asciilifeform: somewhere a mac shipped with an unsupported graphics card ?
mircea_popescu: as the costs to prop it up just keep on growing and eventually tyhe whole "ecosystem" collapses
asciilifeform: (apple does not sell such a thing)
mircea_popescu: apparently they are unable to support opengl properly
mircea_popescu: let alone cuda
asciilifeform: iirc shaders are not part of 'classical' opengl ?
mircea_popescu: supporting "classical" opengl = not working.
asciilifeform: address hate mail to nvidia co. ?
asciilifeform: or whoever apple's current gpu buttbuddy is
mircea_popescu: no, apparently not their fault.
asciilifeform: wai wat
assbot: US Navy spends millions to stay low-tech | TechEye ... ( )
kakobrekla: >The Navy tried to sail away from XP in 2013, but it seemed to hit some headwind with the project as of May this year it still had approximately 100,000 workstations running XP or the other software.
mircea_popescu: looks more like, "neither nvidia nor amd were willing to go into a intel-ms deal with fucking apple, because who the fuck do those assholes think they are and it's about time they figured out a) jobs is deads and b) if he weren't he'd be in jail ; meanwhile apple won't talk to intel or asus etc because they think they're too good to deal with lesser babka, and so they're saying fuck you to the entire modern computing g
mircea_popescu: fx stack"
mircea_popescu: at least that's what i got out of it.
asciilifeform: result will likely be that apple begins shipping arm-macs with their in-house gpu.
mircea_popescu: that will suck.
asciilifeform: (they are already shipping this chip in the pocket comps)
mircea_popescu: and no, i don't believe cook has the guts to even try.
mircea_popescu: they'll just pretend like the poroblem doesn't exist and will go away, like any mcdonalds.
asciilifeform: (how much it sucks is a question for serious apple aficionados, not for me)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they don't need much gut here, the chip was designed under herr jobs and exists now
mircea_popescu: the need for guts comes in exactly too sizes :
mircea_popescu: immense and not too much.
mircea_popescu: they're the same size.
mircea_popescu: anyway. jobs could have pulled something like this off, maybe, as an outlier result. mostly, he'd have failed miserably while denying it all along.
mircea_popescu: anyone else they have left there won't even try
asciilifeform: apple's trajectory for years has been to merge 'iphonism' into their entire product line
asciilifeform: this'd be a logical conclusion.
asciilifeform: mac would turn into 'ipad' 'with keyboard.'
mircea_popescu: they'll make excellent gameboys in a decade.
asciilifeform: they could make almost anything and folks will buy so long as it is vaguely computer-like and doesn't run winblows.
asciilifeform: see the point re: 'sole remaining commercial unix ws vendor'
mircea_popescu: what idiots do isn't really in the scope of this discussion.
mircea_popescu: there are people with myspace accounts still.
mircea_popescu: heck, yahoo briefcase apparently had users, when it closed.
asciilifeform: not speaking of these. but of the folks who want a posix box that fits in a rucksack, where, e.g., 'suspend to ram' works, etc
asciilifeform: just ask ben_vulpes...
mircea_popescu: "And that article Richard posted just seems to exist to stroke Apple's ego. I don't think I know a single artist who would choose to buy one of the new Mac Pros for their work, especially considering the premium you pay and their reliance on AMD hardware in a field dominated by nV and CUDA."
asciilifeform: ^ must be microshit shill
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109181 @ 0.0004228 = 46.1617 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: thing is, 'not microshit' is a hard criterion for many, many folks
asciilifeform: including myself
mircea_popescu: "The crappy 3D support on Mac OS is in direct conflict with that goal. Furthermore, as a non-Mac OS user, I would kindly request that no disproportionate developer effort be spent on such an inadequate and developer-hostile platform.
mircea_popescu: Sent from my iPad."
mircea_popescu: how about that.
asciilifeform: 'mac' ~can~ be treated as something like an irix or solaris box, as a funny-looking frame around a bourne shell and x11 terminal
asciilifeform: winblows - not.
mircea_popescu: "Pixar does NOT use Apple computers to make 3D for their movies (modeling, animation, render, shaders, etc.). They use Linux, just like everyone else in the industry. Now they might use a Mac to paint a background or texture something but all feature animation is done in Linux (Disney, Dreamworks, Sony Animation, Blue Sky, etc. etc.). That's also true for SFX shops like ILM, Weta, Sony Imageworks, DD, etc. etc. All Lin
mircea_popescu: i had no idea.
asciilifeform: why would anyone use anything other than linux boxen for a headless render farm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 1117 @ 0.00111 = 1.2399 BTC {2}
mircea_popescu: "modeling, animation, render, shaders"
asciilifeform: they, likely, have proper card specs from nvidia etc. under nda
mircea_popescu: why would someone use something other than the car to go shop ? "oh, this is for work!!1"
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: 'pixar' does not live by same constraints as us mortals
asciilifeform: if they want the gpu datasheet - they get.
asciilifeform: (perhaps minus the 'nsa chapter' but enough to run shader.)
mircea_popescu: anyone can get the mafia to embed an engineer if they have money.
asciilifeform: sure. but why would the 'anyone' make the result available gratis to his competition ?
asciilifeform: (incidentally, the success history of ussr attempting this was spotty, to say the least.)
mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.
mircea_popescu: there's an endless mountaineous heap of work, and the last time i talked to someone even halfway competent was last week.
asciilifeform: 'embed engineer' sounds simple, but he has to be permitted near the jewels, know what's worth stealing, ~and~ continue working for ~you~ rather than the nice fella who now signs his bonuses
mircea_popescu waves hand
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:06:08; mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
asciilifeform: the shortage is of work that 1) pays 2) doesn't make you want to shoot yourself in the head immediately
asciilifeform: 1 or 2 alone - so plentiful that 'you can eat with your arse'
asciilifeform: 1+2 - 'unicorn'
asciilifeform: and there is no shortage whatsoever of 'skilled folk.' there is only shortage at a particular price point.
asciilifeform: while (!hired(bid++)); << convenient algo.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne folk with beards all look the same to you don't they
williamdunne: Possibly
williamdunne: In my defence though, two bitcoiners who look pretty similar
williamdunne: With the same bear
williamdunne: *beard
williamdunne: I'm pretty sure it is dpb
mircea_popescu: doesn't look like him to me, but hey. danielpbarron is it or ain't it ?
mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.00040995 = 41.9379 BTC [-]
williamdunne: Putting her money where her mouth is supposedly
asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu's idea of 'competence' approximately equals 'willing to dig in chernoble reactor for 2 rubles / hour'
asciilifeform: these - yes, good luck finding.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no dude. it's "go do something useful". after interval, person has done something useful.
mircea_popescu: really very low bar, in any other time than the present
asciilifeform: not hard - yes, today - if ~pay~
asciilifeform: this is ~not~ like the scarcity of, e.g., 'real computer', where ~it doesn't matter if you're rich, it doesn't exist~
mircea_popescu: and yet <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru
asciilifeform: well yes, because all of the things one can't even dream of affording 'look quite alike'
mircea_popescu: no amount of pay is going to deretardify reddit.
asciilifeform: no amount will put out the sun either
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ? << Largely this. I know a person who "Does Video" for a and I am not making this up: "Storytelling Consultancy" or at least he did. Not sure atm what that douche is doing.
asciilifeform: i was speaking of problems that are at least theoretically worth solving
asciilifeform: e.g., laying down shaded pixels
asciilifeform: or getting $proggy built as-so
mircea_popescu: there's more pixels needing laying down than there are people who can do it. period.
mircea_popescu: infinite pay per capita would not fix this
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'this is like protein folding' - sure
asciilifeform: there is infinite appetite
mircea_popescu: that's the ACTUAL bargaining chip of the sv firms : if you ACTUALLY want us to pay market rate, market rate's infinity and we're paying it. get printing.
asciilifeform: sv pays in counterfeit money
mircea_popescu: it has to!
mircea_popescu: there's no way to pay five people to do six jobs!
mircea_popescu: for pay to work as you expect there's a strict requirement that jobs < people.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants to remove a pair of hands from sv, all he'd have to do is pay in actual money
mircea_popescu: o, wait, "actual money" = "fixed percent of all the money that'sd ever going to exist" ?
mircea_popescu: tyvm. but... what fixed percent of all the money that's ever going to exist is microsoft worth ?
mircea_popescu: 0.0001% say ?
mircea_popescu: if that ?
mircea_popescu: so ima pay what, 10 btc for all of redmond ?
asciilifeform: microshit is worth what mosquitoes are worth
asciilifeform: i.e. with negative sign bit
mircea_popescu: this is getting pretty complex.
asciilifeform: what is the removal of the last mosquito 'worth'
mircea_popescu: and i mean that literally. a + bi
asciilifeform: if there were, e.g., a martian in orbit, known for his impeccable honesty, who offered to vaporize every last employee of microshit, present and past, for 10 btc - mircea_popescu would decline ?
asciilifeform: 'not worth bullet' ?
mircea_popescu: for one think, iirc that'd do mike_c in.
mircea_popescu is too old to fall for "progress" and "future" tricks. i'm not paying for that.
asciilifeform: and who's to say what weevils will breed in the crater
mircea_popescu: and on it goes.
asciilifeform: but as gedankenexperiment re: what a great blight is 'worth'
mircea_popescu: forget your own opinion, the thing trades on exchanges, worth what, 100bn ?
mircea_popescu: yes, i would trade 10 btc for 100bn "worth" of engineering work.
asciilifeform: sumthinglikethat
mircea_popescu: that's what, two million man-years ?
asciilifeform: measuring software dev in 'man-time' is ~how we got a planet with microshit in the first place~
mircea_popescu: you're the one forcing me to use nonsensical terms to humor you
mircea_popescu: now you bitch about their nonsensicalness ?!
asciilifeform: was trying to walk on tightrope between lunacy and sense
mircea_popescu: it's simple, really : when jobs < people, you can pay. when jobs > people, you gotta let em volunteer. no other way.
mircea_popescu: yes, you gotta distribute resources back out somehow, but it can only be via equity.
mircea_popescu: fnance is what it is, its own kind of thermodynamics, off of which it is actually derived.
asciilifeform: when will mircea_popescu be volunteering for rat shooting detail in the abandoned factories of leningrad ?
mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.
asciilifeform: more rats than shooters atm
asciilifeform: hence 'all must volunteer' ?
mircea_popescu: well clearly no-one's payin' em ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem exists because it's global. not because "in this tiny island of rust beltlandia so and so rats".
mircea_popescu: this is the first seriouys problem we ran into, ever since this globalization paradigm.
asciilifeform: << i can't pretend to any divine revelation re: the numbers, but what i do see is folks who pay lawyer $xxxxx to solve their problem, and offer programmer $xxx. and then wonder why their programmatic problems remain unsolved. they answer 'lawyer is a man and programmer is a monkey. and the latter gets monkey wage.' answer: you paid for monkey. so that's what you get.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:34:08; mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.
mircea_popescu: this scenario only plays out in your own mind (admittedly poisoned by a lot of interaction with idiots). in reality it's like this : there are more jobs than people. the system where you pay people a salary only works when there are more people than jobs. when there are more jobs than people you essentially create a large excavator of sense on a large mountain of problems, and divy up the results somehow. such as they
mircea_popescu: this is what i mean by equity.
mircea_popescu: and yes this means people working can end up not making anything. it does. necessarily.
mircea_popescu: in theory it works out to better pay and better working coinditions than the alternative, but
asciilifeform: this is an approachable problem
mircea_popescu: generally when people compare the present with the option they imagine, they take selected bits of each.
asciilifeform: once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation
asciilifeform: ditto the 'problems'
asciilifeform: most of them are not actual problems
mircea_popescu: there's no option here, however. no way will be devised where the systematically wrong model can be employed. it's, essentially, what a scam is : the proposition that we've temporarily turned thermodynamics off.
asciilifeform: but the stink of ape-man shit
mircea_popescu: i am not sure this simplification works as you intend it to.
mircea_popescu: you're cutting off T on one side with dT on the other side.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody turned thermodynamics off, but it is entirely possible to have a room full of lunatics mumbling 'vroom, vroom'
asciilifeform: which is what the 'computing industry' is largely about.
mircea_popescu: this while true, makes the problems not an iota smaller.
mircea_popescu: if your house is fulla shit, the realisation that an idiot shat your floor does not clean it any.
asciilifeform: it reduces the 'ocean of problems' to one particular - scientifically formulatable - problem.
mircea_popescu: arguably intellectual problems, such as software, are easier to clean for being virtual rather than physically embodied
mircea_popescu: but still not that much.
asciilifeform: people ask why 'computing is different' and answer is that the field had the misfortune to appear at the same time as the great 'democratization' shit-lathering of the 20th c.
mircea_popescu: not even true. computing appeared in the 50s.
asciilifeform: if, e.g., aeronautics had waited until such a time, 'airplane' would be synonymous with 'f-35'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as did the rest of the rot.
mircea_popescu: rest of the rot, imo, appeared in the 80s.
asciilifeform: but computing in the modern, interactive-terminal sense came later.
asciilifeform distinguishes act of 'computing' from 'calculating'
asciilifeform bbl, off to pet pet
mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
mircea_popescu: and that's not even counting for the currently alive set.
mircea_popescu: generally, the prospect of being a lawyer is strictly speaking dimmer than the prospect of being a programmer.
mircea_popescu: there's no lawyer that walks away with a bn from a successful buyout.
mircea_popescu: there used to be but... in the 50s!
mircea_popescu: as far as they are concerned, getting an even bummer deal than code monkeys. plus they have the family dynasties stuff to make it more painful.
mircea_popescu: "my grandfather was a senator, and my father made a billion, and i'd better do another line of cock^H^Hke before i think about this too muc"
williamdunne: The best off lawyer I know, made very little of his money directly from being a lawyer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00042239 = 8.7012 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever.
assbot: Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the other one is that, the government. yes, fucktards like shrem end up selling the house to pay "the lawyer".
mircea_popescu: the same would have been true if they were fighting cancer as is true when they are fighting the usg.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, THE DOCTOR isn't seeing jack of all that.
mircea_popescu: nor is the laywer.
mircea_popescu: might as well say "you programmers don't need any money anyway, look at what google revenue is!"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation << Ah, the Roof problem. Rook shot up nine respectable civilized folk. If he really cared to address his precieved problem his target ought to have been a crack house.
mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
mircea_popescu: then coders (unlike doctors! or lawyers! and the lawyers would JUMP at the chance, if it were somehow feasible - but so far it's only feasible in banking and finance, mostly) get the option to work for equity, but
mircea_popescu: well.. "why can't it be like it was for oprah!!11"
mircea_popescu: well duh baby. because it never was, that's why.
BingoBoingo: Because Oprah's a hamplanet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70387 @ 0.00042707 = 30.0602 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and with math, too : if social expenditure for field is one trillion, and the headcount employed is one million, that means one million get to divy up a hundred million, thus making a whooping 100 a head. that's not even the fabled dollar a day.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the trillion spent means the govt got to offset 990 billion off another whatever indescript entry in its ledger,
mircea_popescu: and yes the trillion spent also means five people got two billion a pop give or take to be paraded across the country with a large jam tomorrow sign affixed.
mircea_popescu: cool, but what does it do ?
mircea_popescu: not like they can spend two billion to buy a hundred thousand aks and ammo for them and shoot the whole charade into the ground
mircea_popescu: because their 2bn is conditionally theirs on the understanding not that it won't get used "for terrorism",
mircea_popescu: but that it won't be used at all.
mircea_popescu: o, nm, you can "donate it".
mircea_popescu: just as long as it's a meaningless act, carefully sterilized, pointless and ineffectual.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, i'll listen sympathetically to any programmer that can't feed himself ; and i'll be amused at any programmer that "but oprah!". the field's over there, and it takes all comers. don't mind the manure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00043114 = 22.7857 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50650 @ 0.0004229 = 21.4199 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's summary is essentially correct re: 'software industry'
asciilifeform: but to bring it back to the 'dirty house, cleaners want wheelbarrow of gold, so must stay dirty' - i doubt mircea_popescu is suffering from any software problem that, say, terry davis (deliberately not nominating any of the folks here for this gedankenexperiment) couldn't or wouldn't fix for, say, 50000btc
asciilifeform: and yes, the 'software industry' is so utterly rotten that an individual act of deretardification has to be contemplated on own merits, rather than as 'market action', modellable with the usual rules. sorta like buying a russian nuke. sui generis.
asciilifeform: << the magic of bitcoin is that 100% can go to the fella who is willing to dive in a pressure suit below five kilometres of liquid shit and retrieve grandmother's dishes from the sunken h.m.s. shitanic
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:52:54; mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97800 @ 0.00043133 = 42.1841 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but it'd have to be 100% of ฿escape_rocket, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.0004229 = 5.6034 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: << i don't single out lawyers from naive 'but mine has mercedes!' observation, but because the lawyers who ~actually reliably magic away problems~ are not dying in debt. or worrying about rent.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:44:04; mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
asciilifeform: ditto for surgeons who specialize in the nearly-impossible, etc
BingoBoingo: Lawyers who can reliably contain problems don't const $maxint. The only lawyers who charge $maxint aren't charging for their lawyering, but marketing. Hence Ulbricht hiring the maliciously incompetent Dratel snake.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: to be fair, we don't know what he paid. perhaps d. agreed to work for considerable discount..
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dratel from what I understands works until open ended fundraiser is exhausted.
BingoBoingo: Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources
asciilifeform: plus lawyer was quite possibly the wrong tool for the job. ulbricht needed to hire 'blackwater' rather than lawyer.
mircea_popescu: i suffer from such a problem, yes.
mircea_popescu: !s $maxint
assbot: 168 results for '$maxint' :
mircea_popescu: according to you, at least.
mircea_popescu: apparently they'd have to bake a whole new silicone process.
asciilifeform did not say 'new process' !
asciilifeform: just new standard cells
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't give 50k to random unknown schmuck without a wot for the obvious reasons, regardless what they can or could do.
asciilifeform: and any undergrad 'ee' student can draw you the muller gate standard cell in cmos.
asciilifeform: after that, it's merely a matter of 'build skyscraper'
mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the dratel example is particularly on point. what that man did was the equivalent of a bitdaytrade "platform".
asciilifeform: the solution of very expensive problems with no precedent is quite possibly a lemon market, yes.
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
mircea_popescu: "this program does nothing" "yes, but it takes some time - like any other program!"
asciilifeform: i see dratel as a pretty obvious case of usg mole
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources << and the fact that kid would sign off on this - pretty disgraceful.
mircea_popescu: but THEY know what they're doing. they are doing exactly tyhis : make the chumps helpless.
mircea_popescu: "what's the point of donating - prolly go straight to a lawyer snake anyway"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform me too. the problem is - this was one of the more successful ones.
BingoBoingo: This is why for my still to be litigated misdemeanor charge attorney is still working off of his flat $150 pre-trial fee.
asciilifeform: herr ulbricht didn't have a 'lawyer problem,' he had a military problem. or could a sufficiently expert german lawyer have exonerated, say, the 'july plot' folks who failed to nail the fuhrer
mircea_popescu: you're misrepresenting things.
mircea_popescu: the goal here is not to "Exonerate"
mircea_popescu: the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system.
asciilifeform: leaving aside the fact that poor u. wanted to save own sorry hide, rather than 'damage system,' there is precedent.
mircea_popescu: oleander blosom doesn't run outof your mouth, plant itself back on tree.
asciilifeform: ted kaczynski ('unabomber')
mircea_popescu: oleander blosom sees to it that's the last time YOU're running anywhere.
asciilifeform: read transcript of his trial some time
mircea_popescu: what of it ?
asciilifeform: fella was brilliant, and devoted entire trial to making 'rule of law' look as ridiculous as it is
asciilifeform: 'max damage to system'
asciilifeform: ended with: muzzle.
asciilifeform: and lifetime supermax
asciilifeform: (ditto with muzzle)
mircea_popescu: also ended with us here.
asciilifeform: and the 'damage' was a tiny scratch on the bumper
asciilifeform: need a microscope to see it.
mircea_popescu: or dja regard the present as unconnected ?
mircea_popescu: i beg to differ, i see it quite plainly.
asciilifeform: not certain how connected
asciilifeform: open to seeing the logic ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think the connections will ever be certain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101400 @ 0.00040995 = 41.5689 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but broadly, "if the rule of law didn't suck, or if it did and nobody'd bother showing it - what then ?"
mircea_popescu: anyway. see the married men article. they who wish to be exonrated left,long ago. those who stay ALREADY MADE the choice to max damage.
mircea_popescu: turning back on one';s choices later is not another's problem. i am not held to explain why the guy that changed his mind failed both ways.
asciilifeform: what is this 'left', when the bottle has no outside.
asciilifeform: or is there a colony of 'left' on mars.
mircea_popescu: nobody said you get to make all the choices you might wish to.
mircea_popescu: and yes, it's a choice even if you didn't get to make it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00040995 = 14.6557 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: yes, but mircea_popescu mentioned something like 'those who wished, left'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system. << This. On my misdemeanor charge which it was suggest I settle organizational incompetence on the part of the police and prosecution seems to be scuttling whatever case they may or may not have had. Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel. Alleged "victim" is reportedly now a joke subject to taunts from coworkers wit
BingoBoingo: h any ability he might have had to use "powers of office" effectively castrated.
mircea_popescu: observably some people left.
mircea_popescu: Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel << lmao.
BingoBoingo: Seriously people were like "It's a misdemeanor don't fight it." I'm like "It's a misdemeanor and I'm white. They prolly don't anticipate having to prosecute it"
asciilifeform: back to thread where we >> demonstrably false in a sharashka.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:46:57; mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
asciilifeform: in sharashka, the very best rocket designer's terms are 'i get to eat'
mircea_popescu: notrly. reread your source material.
mircea_popescu: people naming their own terms were in there - provided, of course, they got to magic away problems.
asciilifeform: well, he gets caviar while the worst gets beans, sure
mircea_popescu: this is strictly different from "jewish princesses imagining themselves special in own mind"
asciilifeform: just like sharashka where i live.
mircea_popescu: do i need to quote verse and chapter to you ? because if i do you're eating crow.
asciilifeform: of what? solzhenitsyn?
asciilifeform: let's have actual, vs fictional personages ?
asciilifeform: say, korolev
mircea_popescu: pick one, they all have it, as part of being credible.
asciilifeform: did k 'name own terms' ?
asciilifeform: what if he has asked 'i want to live in manhattan as a free man' as 'terms' ?
asciilifeform: on the contrary, at the peak of his career, he had two goons stationed outside of his apartment door at all times.
asciilifeform: just to make sure that he doesn't - to manhattan (and, at least officially , that manhatten doesn't ~him~)
mircea_popescu: so we're switching "fiction as written by a respected source" to "fiction as alf feels like recounting it for the purpose of current convo" ?
asciilifeform: naturally i wasn't there, saying hello to k. in person
asciilifeform: if this means 'fiction' i should like to know where is reality.
mircea_popescu: in any case i'll score s above a, if you don't mind ?
mircea_popescu: at least he WAS there.
asciilifeform: ;;google хлопнут без некролога
gribble: Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; First get your facts straight... - <>; How To Think Critically - < (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32547 @ 0.0004182 = 13.6112 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: s. is approx. the same kind of guide to the subject as svetonius and '12 caesars' is to his.
asciilifeform: yes, he was there...
BingoBoingo: Maybe this is the wrong epoch's fiction being contrasted. Maybe 'Uncle Tom' and 'Gus' the christmas ornament would cover a larger range of outcomes.
mircea_popescu: well then we can't really say much can we.
assbot: Арестованный №1442, он же — великий конструктор | АНТИСОВЕТСКАЯ ЛИГА ... ( )
asciilifeform: incl. letter of k. to beria
asciilifeform: re his treatment
BingoBoingo: Gus the Christmas ornament of course being one of the antagonists in the original blockbuster film
mircea_popescu: i dunno that primary sources escape the suetonius objhection.
mircea_popescu: after all, he wrote with a purpose.
BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
asciilifeform: incidentally k. did 'win from not signing the papers,' in a way. after recanting his confession (given under torture, which mutilated him in ways which ultimately led to his death) his death sentence was commuted to life-at-hard-labour
asciilifeform: (from which was eventually promoted to sharashka)
decimation: < lol software is the only game that pays
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:07:18; mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
mircea_popescu: yes, pays. like all knowledge. let him steal.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.0004248 = 11.7882 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly enough, five minutes ago :
mircea_popescu: <waylow> I'm on mac so I couldn't figure out how to install the game
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> oh macs. yeah that's been a pain. a binary for it is still being worked on, but it's slow going. if you have an ubuntu anywhere, from what i hear it's pretty smooth. also windows binaries work.
mircea_popescu: <waylow> I do - but it's been a while since I've run linux. no windows for me
mircea_popescu: teh exact customer you were talking about.
decimation: in theory bsd and mac should be similar
decimation: the problem is all the graphics shit
mircea_popescu: "all girls are similar until they strip"
decimation: in theory you could make an X11 version if it already works on X
decimation: but performance would be shit
BingoBoingo: It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died
BingoBoingo: <decimation> in theory bsd and mac should be similar << BSD isn't all that similar to other BSD
BingoBoingo: They even all have their own libc
mircea_popescu: the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:48:21; mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
assbot: xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator · GitHub ... ( )
mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
decimation: not quite goto but similar idea
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes. << Sure. The biggest difference was Amiga paid more for parts on each box so they could get the niche live video production market. All the assholes, reamed on their chosen niches
assbot: New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( )
decimation: < actually whitey moved the black folk into the cities - to push out 'white ethnic' voting blocks
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:10:44; BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
mircea_popescu: we find the following things suspicious : romania, paywalls, and bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Your problem is you assume a monolithic whitey
mircea_popescu: everyone else does, why single him out for it.
mircea_popescu: whites are like the jews, amirite ?
decimation: no, I don't
BingoBoingo: Because goddammit muh culture is bein oppressed
decimation: generally 'whitey' in this case are old-fashioned anglican wasps
BingoBoingo: decimation: Only when sane pale folk say whitey. When SJW's and the lower class blacks say whitey they mean poor whites.
BingoBoingo: Mostly poor rural whites, southern optional.
decimation: and those poor whites were largely the targets of black immigration to cities
decimation: having a large block of voting catholic irish - had to be crushed
BingoBoingo: Liberal palefolk assume whitey mean Bushes, Clintons, and Rothschilds. Radical whites and non-graduating blacks assume whitey is trailer trash.
trinque: BingoBoingo | It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died << heard "microkernel wank" a couple times round here, but I was a huge BeOS fan back in the day
trinque: ultra-stable, high performance, was miles ahead of the game re: graphics in its time
BingoBoingo: trinque: BeBox was the next gen victim of Mac survival
asciilifeform: << there was! but it is a mistake to lump in amiga. cbm was still under delusion that it sold ~computers~ rather than 'system' (that is, complete slave planet like apple, where peripheral makers pay danegeld, etc)
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:27:05; mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.0004248 = 22.7693 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis
BingoBoingo: In Motorola era Amiga crushed. In PPC era BeBox crushed
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis << You mean apple provided a target for the drill
asciilifeform: (there were really four outfits under name 'apple' - the folks who sold apple ii series; the folks who sold 'mac' until '99; rebranded 'next corp.' under herr jobs; the present-day zombie.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: point was not that it was difficult to drill. aftermarket 'keys' appeared almost immediately. point was the symbolic meaning of this abomination
decimation: note that 'next' is basically modern osx
decimation: on top of bsd
asciilifeform: decimation: pre-'next' apple is as gone as cbm
asciilifeform: there is literally no trace of it remaining.
BingoBoingo: decimation: But on top of msot weirdo bsd
asciilifeform: in any of the products sold by that firm
decimation: c64 was probably better in its day anyway
mircea_popescu: than amiga ? definitely.
asciilifeform: c64 was unthinkably good for its day.
mircea_popescu: amiga sucked about as much as apple.
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu ever see an amiga alive ?
mircea_popescu: they stand in my mind because when i first heard of apple i thought "hey... this is like... amiga ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. friend had one.
asciilifeform: compare in the flower of their youth, rather than, say, '93 when cbm was a vegetable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39982 @ 0.0004248 = 16.9844 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ferphuxxsake amiga had what we'd call a gpu today
asciilifeform: when apple sold b&w thing
mircea_popescu: no, im comparing the amiga i knew (early 90s) to the apple i saw (late 90s onwards)
asciilifeform: and it was ~documented~
mircea_popescu: and while i agree with you re the distinction, i believe it's without a difference.
BingoBoingo: Apple II's apple's swan song the IIGS was a great machine
asciilifeform: the difference is that cbm did not sell a cult, it sold machinery
mircea_popescu: apple managed to somehow remain THE SAME assholes in spite of changing everything around jobs
punkman vaguely recalls some amazing Amiga games
decimation: asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall
asciilifeform: afaik cbm did not ever attempt to extort tribute from peripheral makers, or software devs
asciilifeform: nor tied user's hands in any particular way
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall << c64 was easily cheaply stamped product, Amiga was not
asciilifeform: it just sold boxes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how documented it was, not caring for such thing at that age. i know however that the amiga guy never made anything like a game.
mircea_popescu: we did, they sucked, how it goes.
asciilifeform: i'm ~still~ playing amiga games now
asciilifeform: (at least was, a few yrs ago, on emul.)
asciilifeform: quite comparable to mid-90s msdos, in terms of pure technical 'effect'
mircea_popescu: eh, shitty early playstation. fuck it.
BingoBoingo has never found a working Apple IIGS at an acceptable price. Played with one for a bit Phree then...
asciilifeform: again, it was a computer, sold as a computer, with 'anyone can write for this' and proper docs
asciilifeform: how this can be compared to 'playstation' i cannot fathom
decimation: < chuck peddle claimed that 'basic' was the real selling point of the c64
assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( )
decimation: he was probably right about that
asciilifeform: the death of cbm is a pretty well-documented subject, and revolved around their one and only unforgivable sin - royally pissing off their c64 install base by breaking compatibility
asciilifeform: eventually they diverted revenue into making items like 'c128' but it was too late.
asciilifeform: !s jack tramiel
assbot: 5 results for 'jack tramiel' :
asciilifeform: ^ iirc we had a cbm thread here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well ? THAT is how.
BingoBoingo: decimation: And warm climate agricultual labor was the selling point of involuntary immigration of Africans, but only because Mestizos were too expensive at the time.
decimation: yeah the other problem was jack tramiel left
decimation: because the commodore board was full of retards apparently
mircea_popescu: in other news : apparently blender has this official "marketplace" thing, which lists various assets for sale. so I go for a 16 bucks buy, on the theory that let's check it out. coinbase, of course. my payment is uncredited. they have a support email for just this case, i write to them... my email is rejected.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43244 @ 0.00042203 = 18.2503 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: apparently I'm the shady one for not using paypal and being romanian.
mircea_popescu: running off with payments and then blocking emails is a perfectly legit strategy.
mircea_popescu: im entirely certain they actually THINK THIS, too.
mircea_popescu: "weird bad, stupid good! for weird is weird and stupid smells like the home stable!11"
decimation: ^ note that thier perception of what is 'weird' is purely what usg smiles upon
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: email rejected ?
asciilifeform: as in bounce ?
trinque: it occurs to me that the fraud dept of paypal may look very much like some soviet bureau's office did
trinque: but we're free! because anyone can have their own dismal bureaucracy
trinque: they probably have a script they go by which includes something like "third world" on it
mircea_popescu: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<>:
mircea_popescu: 554 5.7.1 ACL dns_rbl; Client host [] blocked using
mircea_popescu: Cloudmark CSI. Please visit
mircea_popescu: for more information on why this message
assbot: CSI IP Reputation Remediation Portal ... ( )
mircea_popescu: could not be delivered
mircea_popescu: the odds of me "visiting" some random agent in the "danegeld to email" scamring ? zilch.
mircea_popescu: interesting how the twerps keep changing name, too. i don't seem to recall this particular extortionist.
decimation: "The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name."
asciilifeform: (y'know, the fella who said 'why aren'tcha using gmail, terrorist')
mircea_popescu: well not exactly. he was more into the "why should i punish google for google fucking up my email ?!?!?! i just want email to work!!11"
asciilifeform: phun phakt: tramiel sat in auschwitz.
decimation: !s damnatio memoriae
assbot: 7 results for 'damnatio memoriae' :
decimation: asciilifeform: not auschwitz, Ahlem according to la wik
decimation: ah no he started in auschwitz
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, Checking against 95 known blacklists... Listed 0 times with 0 timeouts
decimation: "Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. " nasty
mircea_popescu: the world totally needs 95 of these things.
asciilifeform: << tramiel didn't give a rat's arse re: computing 'big picture.' he was running a manufacturing concern, in the old 19th. sense in his mind, complete with 'muntzing'
assbot: Jack Tramiel obituary: Founder of Commodore computers dies at 83 - latimes ... ( )
punkman: did the qntra spam affect the other domains too?
decimation: asciilifeform: the electronics industry is still largely in that mode
assbot: Network Tools: DNS,IP,Email ... ( )
asciilifeform: decimation: if only. the 'intellectual property!!!111!!!!!' cancer has eaten most of it
asciilifeform: go and try getting full docs for anything larger than a full adder.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: what I mean is that intel, for instance, just puts all their chips on the 'let's shrink dies' side
decimation: no one is re-thinking big picture
decimation: not that we would know it anyway, because of the nda problem
asciilifeform: actually the thing they put 'all their chips' is collaboration with microshit and the entire criminal pyramid
asciilifeform: the 'shrink dies' thing is pure sideshow.
decimation: it yields a few percent per year
asciilifeform: it is done ~solely~ so that microshit gets to release winblows $year
asciilifeform: with 20% more empty loops
asciilifeform: and 'indian' code
decimation: note that microsoft has dropped price of windows to $0
decimation: even though it's really worth negative
asciilifeform: eventually will have to pay folks to touch it
mircea_popescu: and they will.
mircea_popescu: perfect way for the living wage introduction.
decimation: the only thing I use winblows for is to record tv shows, because they give free listing service
mircea_popescu: "pay people to use windows, to better technologee"
decimation: this was dropped in new windwos
mircea_popescu: exact equivalent of mcdonalds
mircea_popescu: which is the eventual fate of all government agencies.
mircea_popescu: fed to pleb fake money conveyor.
asciilifeform: this is already happening. but, as william gibson wrote, 'the future is here, but not evenly distributed.'
asciilifeform: i have winblows box. solely to run malware. which is one of the things i am paid for.
asciilifeform: so in effect i am 'paid to touch it'
mircea_popescu: and you will be telling me about how hard it is to escape, right, because moving off windows will require "someone to provide the lost income"
decimation: asciilifeform: you almost need real metal box, because of all the vm detection
mircea_popescu: and i will just nod and carry on.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha
asciilifeform: decimation: of course they are specially designated physical boxes.
asciilifeform: decimation: i actually work for a firm which builds computers solely for this purpose
asciilifeform: believe or not.
decimation: ideally someone would make one with a button to freeze and dump all registers
asciilifeform: and guess what.
mircea_popescu: this must exist.
asciilifeform: it does.
asciilifeform: i built it.
mircea_popescu: haha cool.
decimation: I believe it, you could make lots of headway against malware if you can control its hardware environment
mats: would love to read that secret sauce
asciilifeform: decimation: thing is, we discovered that not many folks are really eager to 'make headway against malware'
asciilifeform: they just want to collect the bezzle
mats: have dreamed of a usable reversible debugger for many moons
mircea_popescu: curious if mats gets hired now.
decimation: sure, why bother actually finding malware when people will pay you to pretend
asciilifeform: not many ~want~ to find
asciilifeform: because when you ~find~ strange, now you have to properly reverse it, document...
asciilifeform: and then it turns out to be usg-authored, and then what
asciilifeform: (who pays?)
decimation: you could sell to another arm of usg
asciilifeform: so far, they ain't buying.
mircea_popescu: o yeah. definitely already here but not evenly distributed.
mircea_popescu: usg on usg love.
asciilifeform: for same reason, e.g., microshit isn't
decimation: asciilifeform: a large reason why this problem exists is becuase you can't sue microsoft for damaging your shit
asciilifeform: decimation: naturally
asciilifeform: decimation: but only proximately.
mats: externalizing costs is how software engineers have jobs
asciilifeform: yes, they exempted software 'industry' from ~all~ consumer liability laws in '80s.
asciilifeform: but if only this. since then, an entire class of vermin sprang up
asciilifeform: who pretend to 'write software'
mats: much unlike a civil engineer responsible for faulty bridgeworks...
decimation: and now the 'rats run the ship'
asciilifeform: the notion that any kind of animal is even possible other than rat, is held to be a lunatic fringe thing
decimation: even simple programmers know what it would take to write bug-free code
decimation: about 100x less 'production' and 100x more 'thinking'
decimation: in fact, to even seriously consider writing software for which you are liable is to instantly consider dumping the existing c-machine
mats: while i'm on the subject here is there useful reversible debugging you're aware of, asciilifeform?
mats: gdb can kinda do it, but its slow and buggy.
asciilifeform: decimation: the folks who have 'must work' as hard requirement still prefer the whole 'spend ten years with magnifying glass' to 'rethink computing'
mats: rr is neat but limited... reversedb is limited to linux.
mircea_popescu: << /me notices how this guy is always in this quad double-dating sort of situation, but apparently always with a different gal.
mats: vmware got rid of record/replay after vmware 7
mircea_popescu: swingin' london.
asciilifeform: mats: what, precisely, do you need reverse-gear for ?
asciilifeform: mats: what's wrong with rewinding by running proggy again
mircea_popescu: mats gdb is what eulora uses if that makes you feel any better.
asciilifeform: to whatever breakpoint
mats: slow
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gdb is what the entire free world uses
asciilifeform: at least in one form or another
decimation: asciilifeform: my own experience is that it's way more difficult to paper over shitty hardware in software than to make reliable hardware
mats: i want to easily see the values of all registers (as noted before) including bit flags, fp registers, ...
asciilifeform: mats: my favourite graphical skin on gdb is... ida.
asciilifeform: yes, ida.
mats: figures
decimation: mats: you could probably do this with valgrind too
asciilifeform: it speaks 100% compliant gdb wire protocol
asciilifeform: decimation: valgrind is not a debugger
decimation: yeah but it does emulate x86, I gotta think someone has integrated debug
asciilifeform: mno. doesn't emulate anything
asciilifeform: must be confusing it with somethig else?
asciilifeform: mats: ida is a total monopoly on the kind of thing that it is, bar none. i don't know of any other product category anywhere in modern industry where there is ~ONE~ thing
asciilifeform: possibly 'mpex'
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
asciilifeform: the two of them.
assbot: Valgrind ... ( )
mats: asciilifeform: i don't have anything specific in mind. have been developing my talents in exploitation but i'm kind of stuck as to how to move forward
decimation: but anway if you want to reverse software you need ida
asciilifeform: decimation: whatddayaknow, there is emulator.
mats: asciilifeform: i should probably sign up to be jr malware analyst or some such thing.
asciilifeform: mats: if you have the stomach !
decimation: mats: i think there's a free version of ida for download
decimation: ancient
mats: i'm from the internets, why settle for free
decimation: well, I'm also sure there's warez too
mats: plenty of working license files floating
mats: or however that works.
asciilifeform: reasonably recent ida (having, e.g., 'hexray' plugin, more or less mandatory, and support for weird cpus, etc) is notoriously scarce on warez
asciilifeform: why? story is: irfan guilfanov builds custom copy for each buyer.
asciilifeform: who 'leaks' - is damned publicly and never dealt with again, has to buy support via shills
asciilifeform: ilfak guilfanov.
mircea_popescu: if only the guy could join teh wot.
asciilifeform: but iirc he sold the firm years ago
mircea_popescu: i dun know 'im
asciilifeform: now sits in belgium, angry
decimation: this sounds like the best mechanism for trying to enforce 'copyright' I've heard of
mats: its pretty easy to say 'well i got hacked plz gief another one'
decimation: asciilifeform: I bet you could control valgrind gdb with ida
mircea_popescu: mats same could be said re btc.
decimation: set breakpoints on mem leaks, etc
asciilifeform: the folks who own it now are profoundly aware of their position. you pretty much have to beg repeatedly to so much as be given an address to which to mail the cheque
asciilifeform: to buy a copy
asciilifeform: mats: 'got hacked' gets same treatment as 'leaked deliberately'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe wot is the pill to no longer be angry.
asciilifeform doesn't know the chap personally, can't help find him
mircea_popescu waves in the general direction of the ethers
decimation: asciilifeform: once you add a few more zeros to your bank account, probably can't be bothered with a few extra $k
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'ida' is a beast quite like 'bitcoind'
mircea_popescu: so i hear.
asciilifeform: terrible, monumentally stinking cpp turd
asciilifeform: to which there is no realistic alternative
mircea_popescu: /you are not expected to understand this
asciilifeform: decimation: understand, every 'legit' corp. on the planet which employs reverse-engineers, incl. the arms of usg, buys ida.
mats: most of the serious dudes i know have non-attributed ida licenses
mats: which can be easily done by setting up a shell corp, or just lie.
asciilifeform: didn't say they buy one for each man!
decimation: why bother with attribution?
asciilifeform: thing is, it's attributed whether it displays your name or not
decimation: yeah, unless you are sending envelope of cash, he has your checking account
asciilifeform: vendor knows for whom the build (with particular order of static linked internals, etc) was built
asciilifeform: to really deal with this, would have to obtain a number of builds, and unravel the scheme
asciilifeform: afaik no one has ever bothered (why?)
decimation: because it would be like paying for the sun
asciilifeform: phun phakt: ~explotable~ crashes have been discovered in (some versions of) ida.
asciilifeform: *exploitable
decimation: as in, malicious?
decimation: or as in, can be exploited if reversing the wrong warez?
asciilifeform: as in arbitrary code exec as result of crafted sample
asciilifeform: this did not annoy folks as much as it should have because until recently (linux ver. is new) everyone ran it on a designated turdbox with the other wincrap
decimation: asciilifeform: if you had a winblows computer for malware, it would also be useful to hit another button and display a complete diff between running state and 'known good' state
asciilifeform: ...and guess what..
decimation: and a third button that reverts machine to known state
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9958 @ 0.00041107 = 4.0934 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: and guess what.
decimation: already implemented?
decimation: on a vaguely related note, I found an amusing show on 'the weather channel'
assbot: Prospectors | S01E01 | Breaking the Dry Spell - YouTube ... ( )
asciilifeform: a bit oversimplified description, but yes, we make this.
decimation: apparently there are people who spend their time trying to find minerals on federal land
asciilifeform: l0l what do they get? tax break ?
decimation: but since nobody is printing crystals, etc they can make $$
decimation: asciilifeform: no mainly through nobody's doing, apparently it is still legal in the us to 'claim' federal land for mining
decimation: land open to this is mainly west of the mississippi
asciilifeform: wait till somebody finds something worth stealing
asciilifeform: then - poof.
decimation: yeah that's a whole episode
decimation: trying to get usg to care about your 'property rights'
asciilifeform: see and i didn't even need to watch it
decimation: in fact, it seems to me that claiming the land is counterproductive, just because it shows 'where to dig'
decimation: although it keeps the big obvious infringers off 'your' land
asciilifeform: why would i care ~which~ thief steals everything from me ?
asciilifeform: what difference if usg, or chinese emperor
decimation: asciilifeform: depends if thief is using hand ax or 300 ton earthmover
decimation: I saw a real-life gold mine the other day, saw a truck carrying 300 tons of rock
decimation: was about 20 ft wide and 40 ft tall
decimation: like house moving down the road
asciilifeform: back to the debug thing (because imho it is very educational) - it is very difficult to sell something which actually solves a problem, on account of the whole meatwot thing
asciilifeform: it is just like the 'programmers' thread from hour ago
asciilifeform: you get to an 'uncanny valley' effect where the better the thing works, the worse off you are, because 'not believable'
decimation: that and everyone copies
asciilifeform: and it can even come to where you have to lie, understate capability of product, even
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00041107 = 11.5922 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: and copies. so you're stuck where you end up selling time on the machine, in somewhat circumscribed use cases
asciilifeform: because if you actually sell the thing full-bore, you are now 'asking money for the sun'
decimation: the apple model is to try to convert your software into hardware
asciilifeform: the apple model works if you're usg
asciilifeform: and have crown franchise to do the whole schmuck-herding thing
asciilifeform: where your idiocies have the force of law
decimation: asciilifeform: kinda related are the eda tools for designing chips
asciilifeform: 100% usg-controlled
decimation: well, they are also useless if you don't have $1mil to get 'note from stalin' to make chips
decimation: and that's for one iteration
asciilifeform: typically takes a dozen or more.
asciilifeform: (iterations)
asciilifeform: at least, once did
assbot: An Interview with Andreas Olofsson - Adateva's Ampliative Abacus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( )
decimation: he describes this process
decimation: tried to sell 'new processor' idea on kickstarter, ended up hating kickstarter
asciilifeform: afaik those folks are arm licensees
asciilifeform: ergo, did not design 'new processor'
asciilifeform: but just 'riff on old tune'
decimation: asciilifeform: no, they use arm for board i/o control
decimation: but they have their own silicon to perform dsp 'MAC' operation
decimation: the guy was a dsp designer and became disillusioned by all the shit that was stuffed into dsp chip
asciilifeform: wake me up when somebody bakes a turing-complete gadget with no winblows used ANYWHERE in the brain-to-silicon road
asciilifeform: (other than chuck moore. who did this, yes. but he is old, and not sure if his thing is even still made)
decimation: apparently it uses opencl program
asciilifeform: then turd firmly cemented in.
decimation: I think chuck moore's 'colorforth' runs on windows
asciilifeform: it runs on whatever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119292 @ 0.00040964 = 48.8668 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: incl. bare z80
asciilifeform: point is, he 'licenses' nothing.
decimation: I tried to use it once, confusing as hell and also barely documented
asciilifeform: 100% own-code
asciilifeform: right, why document when you know all of it
asciilifeform: because 1 user.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00041054 = 17.5916 BTC [+]
decimation: yeah the same podcast interviewed vic antonic fellow, who was serb who made his own 8-bit computer back in the 80's
asciilifeform: i have no idea what funds 'greenarrays'
asciilifeform: perhaps it's his personal coin from sofa cushions.
asciilifeform: the silicon equivalent of 'vanity press authors'
decimation: he said that he felt when writing anything higher-level than assembly, he feels like the code 'isn't his own'
asciilifeform: and he's right.
decimation: asciilifeform: the greenarrays site seems to imply they are in production
decimation: who knows how long they will last before they dry up and blow away
asciilifeform: who buys, last i saw, was a mystery
asciilifeform: perhaps mircea_popescu, to run his bitcoind-in-forth
asciilifeform: perhaps some other mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: ('not shakespeare, but man by the same name')
decimation: probably some arm of usg
asciilifeform: if usg, probably just buying it to sink in the ocean
decimation: nah, probably because someone who knew what they were doing made it work
decimation: now usg is stuck forever
asciilifeform: like symbolics lispm.
decimation: precisely
asciilifeform: (there's one lab at ft. something-or-other that has ~eternal~ support contract with symbolics co.)
decimation: usg 'collects' technology in exactly this way
asciilifeform: this is public.
decimation: mainly through its defense-contract departments like lockheed, etc
trinque: asciilifeform: it just clicked into place that these computers are precisely those field radios, as you pointed out.
asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if archaeologists ever turn up a 'greenarrays' in usg gear
asciilifeform: but stranger things have happened
decimation: asciilifeform: the parallella guy was complaining that fpgas have 'eaten' the dsp market
asciilifeform: of course. whole point of dsp was for 'annoyingly custom' problems
decimation: and he did confirm that it costs about $1m to do a chip rev, if you go through the fab's preferred 'agents'
decimation: apparently his eda tools were a special 'deal' for startups, with the understanding that he pays later
asciilifeform: the other things, that $m is pure sunk cost if what you get in the post is a dud that doesn't even power
asciilifeform: which is not unheard of
decimation: yep, he did 4 revs
decimation: tried to simulate on fpga as best as he could
decimation: apparently they make massive 64-way fgpa boards to simulate a full chip
asciilifeform: up to 'refrigerator' size
decimation: which cost ~$100k themselves
decimation: or more
asciilifeform: 100k is 'cheap'
asciilifeform: multi-$m is normal
asciilifeform: plus 'support'
asciilifeform: not really sold in the usual sense. more of a lease, like the old ibm mainframes
decimation: and note that doesn't help you completely with silicon, as you have pointed out before
asciilifeform: and god help you if your thing has to interact with components that you can't simulate (because you didn't design them, and what, other vendor is going to share its logic? dream)
decimation: plus third party 'ip cores'
asciilifeform: the whole 'chip business' is in many ways ~inherently usgizing~
asciilifeform: because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another.
asciilifeform: ideally - a scam directly on the folks who print money
decimation: yeah he said that his business is very difficult because any kind of processing that he could do with his chip - can be done with a specialized asic
asciilifeform: why would folks who print money buy a device for saving a little money ?
asciilifeform: the basic dilemma here
decimation: so for any kind of an open standard - it is impossible for 'generic' solution to beat specialized asic
decimation: thus, closed-turd asic eats everything
asciilifeform: only thing it can beat it on is cost, and the folks who give a fuck re: cost can't afford ~it~ either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48017 @ 0.00040741 = 19.5626 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: it's the hardware equivilant for the software phenomenon - first turd to market wins
decimation: hardware in general makes so little money it's a wonder anyone even bothers
asciilifeform: because it is necessary to enable other rackets
asciilifeform: 'wintel' gets to exist for strictly, strictly that
decimation: yeah, good point
decimation: it becomes a vanity project for those who can print money
decimation: which is pretty much silicon valley
asciilifeform: this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover.
decimation: yeah and the 'die shrink' has only made things worse
asciilifeform: ic put the mega-org (in practice, arm of the state) in the driver's seat in much the same way as nukes once did (if you ask mircea_popescu) or still do
asciilifeform: even ~neglecting die shrink~
asciilifeform: no one makes 'intel 4004' in their kitchen any more than he can make 'pentium'
decimation: yeah, it is a real problem for society when you literally need 10's to 100's of $bil to even try to 'make new ideas'
decimation: so everyone derps in playground that can be had for $1k
asciilifeform: in practice, it means that, e.g., cpu world is as conservative as ancient egypt
asciilifeform: where archs that would look entirely familiar to folks in 1960s are still considered 'state of the art'
asciilifeform: because literally no one can afford to take a risk
decimation: asciilifeform: nearly all the 'evolution' in modern cpus can be considered to be reincarnating things ibm did in the 60's
← 2015-06-23 | 2015-06-25 →