Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-06-19 | 2015-06-21 → ↓
decimation: !up gares
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45950 @ 0.00042306 = 19.4396 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14080 @ 0.00042495 = 5.9833 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10592 @ 0.00043002 = 4.5548 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40421 @ 0.00043264 = 17.4877 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17818 @ 0.00043329 = 7.7204 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2405 @ 0.00042738 = 1.0278 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80426 @ 0.00042129 = 33.8827 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51550 @ 0.00042833 = 22.0804 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00041552 = 5.2979 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17292 @ 0.00042351 = 7.3233 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16274 @ 0.00041552 = 6.7622 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12819 @ 0.00041541 = 5.3251 BTC [-]
assbot: There and back again: a journey through bounty awa... - HP Enterprise Business Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpcGCp )
mats: > the team is disclosing full details of the Microsoft Internet Explorer research submitted after receiving confirmation that Microsoft does not intend to patch the Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR) flaw involved.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00041541 = 20.7705 BTC [-]
assbot: Combat engineer specialty opens to women soldiers ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gpf8sl )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00041541 = 12.94 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00041117 = 14.9871 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Pentagon Building Cruise Missile Shield To Defend US Cities From Russia - Defense One ... ( http://bit.ly/1GphuYu )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96796 @ 0.00042048 = 40.7008 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: lolwut
assbot: Walnut too hard for cellphone screen - People's Daily Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpjkZb )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00041201 = 5.3355 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10268 @ 0.00041188 = 4.2292 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12632 @ 0.00041466 = 5.238 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138900 @ 0.00040736 = 56.5823 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00040519 = 7.2934 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00040519 = 7.2529 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00042043 = 23.0816 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11050 @ 0.00040363 = 4.4601 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14107 @ 0.00042078 = 5.9359 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00041834 = 4.8109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00042078 = 4.2499 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00042143 = 16.3726 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00041815 = 13.3808 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Stealing Keys from PCs using a Radio: Cheap Electromagnetic Attacks on Windowed Exponentiation ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIbdSA )
jurov: hush, lest you cause alf to start measuring cardano emanations and delay the project 10 years
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00042437 = 13.2403 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.
mircea_popescu: (not even going into the details of how running bitcoin in the background provides nearly perfect defense for all this, because good luck distinguishing)
mircea_popescu: "In order to extend the attack range, we added a 50dB gain stage using a pair of inexpensive low-noise amplifiers (Mini-Circuits ZFL-500LN+ and ZFL-1000LN+ in series, 175$ total). We also added a low-pass filter before the amplifiers. With this enhanced setup, the attack can be mounted from 50 cm away. Using better antennas, amplifiers and digitizers, the range can be extended even further."
mircea_popescu: yes, further, but logarithmically. the next 1k spent adds 10 cm. the next 100k spent adds another 10 cm. etc.
mircea_popescu: "Q5: What if I can't get physically close enough to the target computer?
mircea_popescu: There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.
PeterL: who is running scoopbot_revived ?
mircea_popescu: williamdunne
mircea_popescu: how's the new job ?
PeterL: it's going good, but keeps me pretty busy
mircea_popescu: ;;google anastasia the make-up mogul
gribble: Looks created by Jazmin Makeup Moguls on Pinterest | Bobbi ...: <https://www.pinterest.com/makeupmoguls/looks-created-by-jazmin-makeup-moguls/>; Makeup - Anastasia Beverly Hills: <http://www.anastasiabeverlyhills.com/makeup.html>; Anastasia Beverly Hills | Sephora: <http://www.sephora.com/anastasia-beverly-hills>
mircea_popescu: all these things which exist...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00042548 = 8.4032 BTC [+]
PeterL: ;;later tell williamdunne want me to give you the nick "scoopbot" for your bot?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00042592 = 12.0322 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "[How is it possible for an adult American to need to spend full-time maintaining a 20-year-old house? I got some insight into this the other day. << holy shit the us has turned into 80s romania.
PeterL: link?
assbot: Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Home school, Shanghai school, and American K-12 all in one conversation ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnFENk )
mircea_popescu: was in the log earlier
mircea_popescu: anyway, the comments on that article are particularly retarded. one schmuck that can barely spell brings the entire "football team fan" argument, without a trace of irony or even the faintest hint of self awareness. he honestly believes that since "technology" today is better than 100 years ago, while the math kids could do out of highschool back then was 10x harder, it then follows that studying hard has no payoff.
mircea_popescu: some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do not credit the idiotic propositiopn
mircea_popescu: that everyoner's equal"
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51630 @ 0.00042824 = 22.11 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58820 @ 0.00043053 = 25.3238 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: all i can see is
assbot: The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnGysY )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15909 @ 0.00041799 = 6.6498 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32747 @ 0.00043423 = 14.2197 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29294 @ 0.00044143 = 12.9313 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00042196 = 9.2198 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Nevertheless, if at issue is to find out if FartFarer was the DukeDickwalker's father or uncle one can always trust the wikidorks got it right."
mircea_popescu: so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.0004199 = 19.2314 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00044058 = 8.1067 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18255 @ 0.0004448 = 8.1198 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00042428 = 22.8687 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00041799 = 2.487 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38574 @ 0.00041562 = 16.0321 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up Drhelmut
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00041267 = 2.93 BTC [-]
Drhelmut: Yo guys
Drhelmut: thx mircea
danielpbarron: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt << allegedly by the church shooting guy
danielpbarron: > Yet when we learn about anything important done by a black person in history, it is always pointed out repeatedly that they were black. For example when we learn about how George Washington carver was the first bobbaer smart enough to open a peanut.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18420 @ 0.0004223 = 7.7788 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: rhodesia eh ?
danielpbarron: > I dont pretend to understand why jews do what they do. They are enigma.
mircea_popescu: The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words �black on White crime� into Google, and I have never been the same since that
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a present day slave owner that thing makes for a pretty amusing read.
mircea_popescu: "A horse and a donkey can breed and make a mule, but they are still two completely different animals. Just because we can breed with the other races doesnt make us the same. " << this is actually a flawed argument on multiple levels. first off, the mule is sterile. second off, the ability to conceive is a very good measure of species proximity. thirdly, there's no proposition of "identity", there's no such thing as bio
mircea_popescu: logical identity, or for that matter identity in nature.
mircea_popescu: the multicultural proposition is idempotence, not identity.
mircea_popescu: "I think that if we could somehow destroy the jewish identity, then they wouldnt cause much of a problem." bwahaha dude...
mircea_popescu: why the fuck ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00042732 = 13.8024 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940's American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion." << holy shit, by the time a guy with serious respect for opinions as a mental construct and a preference for historical us over nazi germany goes shooting up the police station you know the sops problem hath come full circle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00042467 = 5.1597 BTC [-]
assbot: The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K2Phfq )
mircea_popescu: the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,
danielpbarron: this isn't the police station guy
mircea_popescu: but there's no stopping the flood of them.
danielpbarron: i guess there were two shootings recently; the church one is all over the news and apparently the police station guy isn't
mircea_popescu: there's going to be weeks with a thousand shootings,
mircea_popescu: if the old whore has enough in her to take it.
mircea_popescu: and ten thousand, and a hundred thousand.
mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately at the time of writing I am in a great hurry and some of my best thoughts, actually many of them have been to be left out and lost forever. But I believe enough great White minds are out there already."
mircea_popescu: the minds are scarcely the problem. which is part of why i credit so little the entire "iq" verbiage. if iq were the determining factor in anything we'd be living on the moon already.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41961 @ 0.00043737 = 18.3525 BTC [+] {3}
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 361783 | Current Difficulty: 4.969238635489384E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 362879 | Next Difficulty In: 1096 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49689 @ 0.0004489 = 22.3054 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00044459 = 5.2906 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00045217 = 6.1947 BTC [+]
assbot: Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )
pete_dushenski: "Using fossil records and extinction counts from a range of records" << not the most complete picture, this. sorta hard to draw conclusions on how many cheeses there are in the world based on the ones at your local grocery store
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.0004383 = 9.0728 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 11:52:26; mircea_popescu: There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169607 << haha. any other gems to share with the class ?
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 13:32:44; mircea_popescu: so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 243.91, Best ask: 243.92, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 243.8, 24 hour volume: 30090.14772989, 24 hour low: 240.0, 24 hour high: 247.81, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00043425 = 5.1024 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.0004383 = 3.7256 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow
pete_dushenski: talking about how "we need to coordinate to protect from sjws"
pete_dushenski: i left him a comment trying to wipe the shit from his eyes but i dun think it was particularly effective
assbot: Public speech is a bad idea | Bloody shovel ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVyXvE )
pete_dushenski: i still keep reading him. but he really ought to show up here. i'll have to invite him around one of these days.
pete_dushenski: "The French generals were a lot tougher and better educated than almost anyone in US uniform today. They'd started off doing Jedburgh team jumps into occupied France in WW2, went on through the meat grinder of Indonesia (many through Dien Bien Phu) and Algeria. In the meantime, they'd gotten real educations, not degrees in Business Management from West Dickhole State like your typical US officer."
pete_dushenski: "I understood that a career spent in a careerist organization has the effect of undermining character and training/selecting for poor moral courage, and that nobody in the US military with the rank and position to plan and launch a coup had the courage to do so successfully."
pete_dushenski: encouraging, no ?
pete_dushenski: a buncha unmotivated, uneducated, unincentivised, uncivilised deskjockeys make up the most 'powerful' arms of the firstbestlargestfastest state in the world
pete_dushenski: if there is a lizard hitler, he's struggling for air beneath his 1000kg cloak of redditardation
assbot: JL: ‘A Career Spent in a Careerist Organization’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVA2DJ )
pete_dushenski: and it's too beautiful to not be outside right now so ima be gone with the wind !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133850 @ 0.00042284 = 56.5971 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: i'm real tired of your shit gavin andressen
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00043831 = 7.9334 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00045217 = 1.9443 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105300 @ 0.0004292 = 45.1948 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00041573 = 11.6047 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00042197 = 12.4481 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169637 << 'not governable' is when the tax receipts dry up, and the cities burn. not when schmuck #xxxxxx fires a few pot shots at cop and dies same day
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 15:19:52; mircea_popescu: the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 11:45:17; mircea_popescu: punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.
asciilifeform: (yet another reason to run on a double-converter 'ups' or at least an isolator transformer!)
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 16:49:14; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.
punkman: yeah I'd rather do airgap on laptop with battery than desktop
asciilifeform: did i write here re: how a keyboard (esp. a decent 1980s 'ps/2' one) can be 'heard' from across the street ?
asciilifeform: pretty sure that i did.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 16:41:04; assbot: Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169594 << i read that comment differently - that genetic garbage will not turn into something else regardless of where schooled
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 12:23:56; mircea_popescu: some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do not credit the i
asciilifeform: in the past, there was a great deal of noise esp. in usa re: how slum children, in their rookeries, were the way they were solely on account of lead poisoning. well, where is the lead now? and how are the rookeries ?
asciilifeform: ditto for public schooling vs whatever other kind
asciilifeform ran into a number of 'home school' veterans at uni. did not notice anything peculiar about them as people, neither for better or worse.
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'children of special people' ~do~ tend towards 'indistinct mass.' yes, dynasties of thinking folks existed, e.g., the bernoulis, etc. but most are more like feynman's daughter
asciilifeform: nothing to write home about
asciilifeform: 'regression to the mean' ~is~ a thing
asciilifeform: (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78592 @ 0.00043403 = 34.1113 BTC [+] {4}
TheNewDeal: (tm)?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33858 @ 0.00041595 = 14.0832 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169664 << pretty sure i met herr spandrell at handle's party
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 17:04:21; pete_dushenski: been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow
asciilifeform: unless i have him symlinked mentally with a similar fella
asciilifeform: (these 'alt right' folks have blended into 'indistinct mass' in my head, sadly)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169596 << smart folks understand futility very well. which is why 'postals' tend to be played out by borderline tards, to no long-term effect whatsoever
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 12:24:13; mircea_popescu: i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.
mircea_popescu: i doubt it has anything to do with smart.
mircea_popescu: imo, eunuchs understand... futility. and for bonus lol points, fut is the present indicative of to fuck in romanian.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so where are the non-retarded 'postal' ?
asciilifeform: blacked out from news ?
mircea_popescu: i do not think this guy is retarded.
asciilifeform: or, on other end of the spectrum, 'isis' et al - also run by & for tards (and usg stooges)
mircea_popescu: i actually think he is more respectable than pretty much every surviving american.
asciilifeform: respectable perhaps in the chechen 'died a good death' sense
asciilifeform: but what permanent dent did he make in anything?
mircea_popescu: whatever you will call it.
mircea_popescu: obama has left no mark on the world. this man - has.
mircea_popescu: his name i will record, everyone else's - no call.
asciilifeform digs for the original link / stats / corpse count
mircea_popescu: you have to dig no further than right here. the fact that you feel teh need to sell me on the idea he never happened is pretty much good enough.
asciilifeform: i'd like to believe that 'happened.' but want to know ~how~. e.g., are there fewer usg cops today than last week? is the fed printing fewer usd ? what, precisely, is this mark.
mircea_popescu: but the problem is, there's no promise the how will be approachable.
mircea_popescu: otherwise the buddha'd be a cooking recipe.
asciilifeform: so we have 'partizan died for the motherland' situation.
mircea_popescu: i dun think so.
asciilifeform: job of partizan, however, is not simply to 'die with honour', but take some of the scum with him to hell
mircea_popescu: i dun think any of these actually works in this context.
asciilifeform is grasping for so much as a hint of what works in this context..
mircea_popescu: let's return to gorgo, the woman that allegedly "spartan women can rule men because they can squeeze them out". her husband famously told her to "mary well and serve her man". also, partizan motherland ?
mircea_popescu: well then it's a meaningless concept.
mircea_popescu: ie, applies to everyone dead.
asciilifeform: i get the idea that 'many raindrops -> flood.' but where is the flood ?
asciilifeform: and what is to be flooded
mircea_popescu: nono, the idea is that calling everything the same thing is the opposite of trying to understand. you can't analyse by synthetic means.
mircea_popescu: if your observation about a fact is a word that applies to all facts, you've not even attempted to study the peculiar of the fact.
asciilifeform: i'm balking at the idea that the 'how' is this mystical thing that one cannot even attempt to apprehend
mircea_popescu: one certainly can not attempt to apprehend the death of cesaria evora by saying "niggers"
mircea_popescu: yes, she was black. nevertheless...
asciilifeform: even the 'jihad' folks don't work this way
asciilifeform: they have concrete aims, however simplistic
mircea_popescu: no. i don't think your idea of "aims" actually applies to them.
mircea_popescu: they do not have concrete aims in your definition of such.
asciilifeform: 'the scum must die' is an example of an actionable doctrine
asciilifeform is labouring under a very palpable feeling of failing to get his teeth around the enigma here
asciilifeform: perhaps best comparison is to the mouse in the jar
asciilifeform: say he had beaten his brains out against the glass, while attempting escape. while in a sense this is 'honour', what has mouse accomplished ?
mircea_popescu: but look : the standard european mecanicism is not a universal ideology. actually, plenty of people have never even heard of it. they regard things - often the same things, yes - but that does not necessarily mean they see themwith the same eyes.
asciilifeform: well sure
mircea_popescu: take the easier to digest example of the child who earnestly thinks milk comes from the supermarket.
mircea_popescu: you may think "he eats because hungry - just like me", and he agrees.
mircea_popescu: what if - to him, hungry is the subjective sense of lack induced by watching tv without a milk glass in hand like ... every single case of people watching tv he's seen on tv ?
mircea_popescu: is this, properly, "hunger" ?
asciilifeform: 'philosophical zombie' (tm) (r) ?
mircea_popescu: not even. merely, "european mecanicism zombie"
mircea_popescu: ie, a being not informed by the rote assumptions of your culture.
asciilifeform: btw it is no accident that this term appeared around the same time that these creatures were actually brought into being
mircea_popescu: the ascendancy of ideology does not actually bring anything into being but its own zombies.
mircea_popescu: the rest of the world - unchanged.
mircea_popescu: so the word's backwards.
asciilifeform: so pashtun is actual human, civilized man - zombie ?
asciilifeform: (orlov's '5 stages' book, as well as of course 400 yrs of euro 'wish i were an amerind' material, ends with just this)
asciilifeform: as does limonov, etc.
mircea_popescu: well, not exactly.
mircea_popescu: one's sane and the other mentally ill.
mircea_popescu: because what a dead and decaying civilisation does to the brain is indistinguishable from the early stages of mental illness.
asciilifeform: what planet can i visit to meet sane+civilized ?
mircea_popescu: but the comparison can not be properly carried in civilisational terms - there aren't any. the only common ground is natural, and that's what yields there.
asciilifeform readies launcher
mircea_popescu: sane + civilised is only available at times when a civilisation prospers. these aren't these atm.
mircea_popescu: arguably it's right here, but i think it's early for that.
asciilifeform: ergo the closest thing to sane man in civilization is, today, the wrecker ?
mircea_popescu: in my reading.
asciilifeform: even from this perspective, mr postal is ineffectual
asciilifeform: with his pea shooter
mircea_popescu: effectual is not a consideration.
mircea_popescu: the man who doesn't steal - also "ineffectual".
mircea_popescu: as he caught no thieves.
jurov: btw, when it was prospering? in manifest destiny times?
mircea_popescu: definitely the gilded generation.
asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps, at the latest, when it feasted on the ashes of the remaining planet it burned in the world wars ?
mircea_popescu: 1890 probably closest available. it IS possible china is prospering atm, i am blind and clueless
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the only marginal avenue for all that is claiming mussolini's claimed italian revival was genuine. i speak the language and do not believe the theory, in agreement with the vast bulk of native speakers.
asciilifeform: speaking of, mircea_popescu fan of j. evola ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00041573 = 8.4601 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: hitler&gobbles' inane insanities certainly do not constitute more of a nordic system than the current socialism.
asciilifeform: (afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't go as far as fan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me approach the matter this way : you have an infestation of badgers in your living room. so you set down a dozen traps. overnight, two traps have sprung.
mircea_popescu: the infestation is no longer.
asciilifeform: re: the question of 'when prospered', little story. today i went again to the argentinian fella (who was thrilled that i had visited his home town) to get major work on my car. took a while, and as i always do, went to the antique shops which surround the place for miles around. and, as before, noticed that the artifacts are chronologically upper-bounded around 1955.
asciilifeform: that's when 'prosperity' upper bound.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96000 @ 0.00041484 = 39.8246 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: when the nostalgiacs stop.
mircea_popescu: at that time the first trap to ever spring sprung, and the second had not : a) were the other eleven effectual or ineffectual ? b) was the one that sprung effectual or ineffectual ? note that still badgers around, AND FROM THE POINT O VIEW OF THE BADGERS, every item is just as much a trap as the traps.
mircea_popescu: the man who has not shot an invader in his livingroom is not by this a man who will not. just a trap no invader has stepped on yet, is all.
mircea_popescu: the man that has so shot one, is not by this ineffectual, even if invaders left.
asciilifeform: this'd be if he had shot the usg polizei repossessing his house, or the like
asciilifeform: but he did what, break a window ?
asciilifeform: at random station?
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure i have enough data to build a chain as you propose.
mircea_popescu: i can but shrug.
asciilifeform: what i'm seeing with the 'postals' is something like what tlp saw
asciilifeform: fools acting out 'hollywood' revenge with small arms
asciilifeform: rather than quietly cooking trotyl for years
asciilifeform: or the like
mircea_popescu: this is what all they who disagreed with chomsky and agreed with civilisational narrative re joe stack also saw.
mircea_popescu: it is the siren song of britni spears.
asciilifeform: 'killdozer' fella was better example, imho
asciilifeform: even herr stack could have done well with his little flying bomb
mircea_popescu: iirc he stacked it with extra fuel or something.
asciilifeform: (why did he wait for the usg snakepit to empty?)
mircea_popescu: anyway, it is no argument to say of the badger trap "but it shot no laser"
mircea_popescu: ie, this may be a valid discussion of trapmakers, as it discusses how much of a trap it is, but not at our level, where we discuss what is is.
asciilifeform: so far best i can think of is 'solzhenitsyn's axe' argument
asciilifeform: yes, if every man with axe, then game over
asciilifeform: but it is never 'every man'
asciilifeform: not even among the pashtuns.
mircea_popescu: well no. you are in the unique position where someone killed himself, and you say "his death was not effectual - as it didn't resolve his problems. lo, they are still here!"
asciilifeform: and 'every man with spear' did not help the zulu.
mircea_popescu: well yes, they are. so are you. so what of it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15748 @ 0.000437 = 6.8819 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: in any case : people who don't steal do not become by this better thieves. they do instead become part of a different world.
mircea_popescu: tho thieves often think in terms of "o look, a slow scam is being set up!!1"
asciilifeform: what of it is that folks who are really in a hurry to commit suicide with an optional small side dish desert of small-scale homicide are not partizans.
mircea_popescu: which i guess makes sense. to them, anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they are, however briefly. the others often never get around to it.
mircea_popescu: you know, once ceausescu was finally killed, it came to light there have been thousands of people plotting his demise, allegedly. to hear them talk, some of these had gone on for decades.
mircea_popescu: the response was usually ridicule.
asciilifeform: ditto in post-war fr
asciilifeform: but notice he was not killed by lone 'nutter'
mircea_popescu: he nearly was,
asciilifeform: but by crowd that reached 'schelling point'
mircea_popescu: and ww1 was started by exactly such.
mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms
mircea_popescu: ie, check out this guy's excuse.
asciilifeform: my original observation was that the folks who have the mental chops to bring about four, five-figure body counts - do not.
asciilifeform: and why
mircea_popescu: because they proceed of causes, not towards purposes ? who yet even cares per se of body count ?
mircea_popescu: they're not playing counterstrike
asciilifeform: partizans - cared
asciilifeform: one fewer german, one fewer train, tank
asciilifeform: at the very least, enemy cannot simply shrug and ignore burned train
mircea_popescu: live partizans cared.
mircea_popescu: if this man were here talking, i would make the same exact observation.
mircea_popescu: as you do, i mean.
mircea_popescu: "hey, this isn't the best plan i ever heard"
asciilifeform: when i say 'ineffective,' my thought is 'usg can survive as many of these as are ever likely to appear'
mircea_popescu: but note that at no point would him getting killed be part of a best plan, so
asciilifeform: without a visible dent
mircea_popescu: it's already a given he's taken at most a local maximum
mircea_popescu: in which case...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, by subjective criteria as you employ, the english empire still survives.
mircea_popescu: confederate us survive
asciilifeform: english empire survives!
mircea_popescu: white china survives, and the fucking hittite empire to boot
asciilifeform: usg bought it at fire sale
asciilifeform: to rephrase, elephant can be killed by hunter - with bullet, or spear even. but there are not enough chimps in all of africa to kill it by throwing own shit at it, even were all of the chimps to agree to this plan.
asciilifeform: elephant - laughs.
asciilifeform: (or i imagine that it would, if it could)
jurov: i can easily imagine elephat drowning in shit
jurov: *elephant
mircea_popescu: this is only about the elephant for the elephant.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo today i saw the classic 'mosin' for sale; costing roughly 3x what i last remember seeing...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: you're discussing the matter in inadequate terms, as if you were to try and judge software by what happens with the table.
asciilifeform: well, is it possible for me to apprehend the correct terms, whatever they might be, or do i need some of nubbins's lsd ?
asciilifeform: the lsd naturally secreted in my skullcase, apparently does not suffice
mircea_popescu: now that i dunno.
mircea_popescu: i did think teh present conversatiuon made it plainly clear.
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 23:26:40; mircea_popescu: mats and cats have had millions of years to develop fishing implements.
asciilifeform: cats 'act from cause, never from purpose' but still have not invented fishing pole.
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see a cat in desperate need of overthrowing the imposition of catdom upon it, however.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php << mega-relevant
assbot: 'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyXHZL )
asciilifeform: ^ classic, on subject
asciilifeform: has pretty much the same point as mircea_popescu's explanation earlier
mircea_popescu: well i guess ima read it
asciilifeform: and results in equal amount of 'what am i, the single ant, to do, wtf' after reading.
asciilifeform wanders off to pet pet
mircea_popescu: ‘Is that so?’ The other eyed him speculatively, had another pick at his teeth. ‘And what makes him excellent?’
mircea_popescu: !up SirJacket_
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00041267 = 4.1267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49500 @ 0.00041213 = 20.4004 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Uncovering Tor users: where anonymity ends in the Darknet - Securelist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gz2OsY )
shinohai: dat netsplit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76945 @ 0.00041275 = 31.759 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30385 @ 0.00040927 = 12.4357 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46554 @ 0.00042843 = 19.9451 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ‘Nonsense!’ declared Gleed. ‘There is no such thing. There is no weapon inventable that the other fellow can’t employ once he gets his hands on it and learns how to operate it.’
mircea_popescu: ‘Are you sure about that?’
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169801 <<< there are english translations (reading ride the tiger atm)
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 19:15:29; asciilifeform: (afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdnKDj )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16376 @ 0.00041009 = 6.7156 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169903 << deadly boring on account of none of the material being in any way new (to anyone with even a faint interest in the subject) whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i will say for the record that a) the "economic" model contemplated by the naive socialist pseudo-anarchists cooking up the story is broken and b) anyone aged 16 who can't figure out how to extract value out of it should go hang.
asciilifeform: wai wut
asciilifeform: extract out of what
shinohai: @ asciilifeform therefore I post for newcomers to understand why tor is smacktarded.
assbot: 'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdr6GB )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what i meant was, extract a lesson from the story, or extract the juice from the folks portrayed therein
mircea_popescu: it would take me about a month of "earth time" to own one of their townlets, i reckon.
mircea_popescu: and i'm not even jewish.
asciilifeform: author would probably answer 'jew lands and will die of problems before he gets so much as a gram rather than pound of flesh'
asciilifeform: (on earth, we know that this does not happen, sure.)
mircea_popescu: it does not happen period. the "floating value of coin" model gets reliably thundered into the dirt by fixed value coins and arbitrage.
mircea_popescu: it's what built the roman empire, the solidus
asciilifeform: anyway linked piece on account of 'magic power of saying fuckyou no' subject
mircea_popescu: before they fucked it all up, which is what ended it.
asciilifeform: rather than recipe for life
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17974 @ 0.00041009 = 7.371 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also the implication in the story was that the 'gands' lived in dunbar-number villages
asciilifeform: hence the informal 'coin'
mircea_popescu: i am aware. this makes it not work quite specifically.
mircea_popescu: you ever seen the pawnbroker btw ?
mircea_popescu: Jesus Ortiz: Say, how come you people come to business so naturally?
mircea_popescu: Sol Nazerman: You people? Oh, let's see. Yeah. I see. I see, you... you want to learn the secret of our success, is that right? Alright I'll teach you. First of all you start off with a period of several thousand years, during which you have nothing to sustain you but a great bearded legend. Oh my friend you have no land to call your own, to grow food on or to hunt. You have nothing. You're never in one place long enou
mircea_popescu: gh to have a geography or an army or a land myth. All you have is a little brain. A little brain and a great bearded legend to sustain you and convince you that you are special, even in poverty. But this little brain, that's the real key you see. With this little brain you go out and you buy a piece of cloth and you cut that cloth in two and you go and sell it for a penny more than you paid for it. Then you run right o
mircea_popescu: ut and buy another piece of cloth, cut it into three pieces and sell it for three pennies profit. But, my friend, during that time you must never succumb to buying an extra piece of bread for the table or a toy for a child, no. You must immediately run out and get yourself a still larger piece cloth and so you repeat this process over and over and suddenly you discover something. You have no longer any desire, any temp
asciilifeform: (and the impression i got was that the dunbaricity was the ~only~ thing that made the mechanics halfway plausible..?)
mircea_popescu: tation to dig into the Earth to grow food or to gaze at a limitless land and call it your own, no, no. You just go on and on and on repeating this process over the centuries over and over and suddenly you make a grand discovery. You have a mercantile heritage! You are a merchant. You are known as a usurer, a man with secret resources, a witch, a pawnbroker, a sheenie, a makie and a kike!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00043154 = 6.9478 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Jesus Ortiz: [long pause] You really some teacher, Mr. Nazerman. You really, really 's the greatest.
mircea_popescu: it is as plausible as the notion that "mecanicity" makes perpetuum mobile more plausible.
mircea_popescu: sure, plausible, if you're the plausing kind.
asciilifeform: incidentally, the final nail in the coffin of perpetuum mobile wasn't really driven in until emmy noether..
asciilifeform: so it is not the best example of 'plainly impossible to any thinking person'
mircea_popescu: it wasn't intended as that.
asciilifeform: mainly speaking from an ancient pet peeve of mine, where folks who slept through noether and even carnot often map '2nd law of thermo' to a childhood-received 'who does not work, does not eat' and think of it as a 1:1 map
asciilifeform: whereas it is anything but
mircea_popescu: yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules.
mircea_popescu: ask someone why shouldn't they fuck their sister next time you want an angry puzzled man.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my understanding is that folks who didn't get 'westermack-effected' for whatever reason, having sisters, are busy fucking them at this very minute
mircea_popescu: doubt it tbh
asciilifeform: (as pictured for mass pr0nification in 'game of thrones' etc.)
asciilifeform: there was a reddit 'ama' thread linked here last year, where sisterfuckers chimed in by the battalions
mircea_popescu: next you're gonna be quoting wikipedia at me.
mircea_popescu: what is this, the future ?
asciilifeform: (unless they are all philipinos...)
mircea_popescu: how about they were all bitcoin experts from "the community" of derps that never saw a bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: this particular subject being 'phillippinized' would be almost equally strange as were the reports genuine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @ 0.00043412 = 21.2719 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'm not an inquisitor and cannot comment re: whether the sisters were fucked in reality, or in imagination, and if so, whos
asciilifeform: only that the subject is of perennial interest to homo redditicus
asciilifeform: (and to fans of 'thrones')
mircea_popescu: which leads back to the point.
mircea_popescu: perpetuum mobile is also of perennial interest to the same apeish overaged teen mind.
mircea_popescu: for the exact same reasons, too.
asciilifeform: at least once was.
mircea_popescu: right, fashions change.
asciilifeform: what reasons specifically ?
mircea_popescu: specifically eh ? what do you want of me.
asciilifeform: 'for the exact same reasons'
mircea_popescu: what reasons specifically drive children to immitate speech sounds ?
mircea_popescu: ah that. well, poking around at the world, right ? same reason they stick things in their mouth.
asciilifeform: i was expecting an analogy between receiving free energy from the aether and hypothetical easy short-circuit solution to problem of what to fuck
mircea_popescu: fucking is not easy by definition.
asciilifeform: 'easy' is perhaps not right word
asciilifeform: 'accessible' ?
mircea_popescu: if you think about it, men tend to value "fuck me then i take off" girls the most, coworkers less than that and wives even less.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck would want a sister on his head.
asciilifeform: might want to ask the aficionados
asciilifeform has no sisters
mircea_popescu: ah, no, we're discussing economics here. the ship goes uphil like any othjer ship going uphill.
mircea_popescu: affections not related.
asciilifeform: speaking of!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7973 @ 0.00043809 = 3.4929 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: when i moved here, as a boy, i was constantly puzzled as to why whole wash.,d.c. region is covered in signs depicting... a ship going uphill! >> http://www.lehi-ut.gov/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/snap.a1.gif
asciilifeform: poor sailboat is just short of sailing off the cliff.
asciilifeform: (edge of the earth?)
asciilifeform: (turned out, the sign means 'neighborhood watch!' and depicts a crossed-out 'spy vs spy' figure)
asciilifeform: back to the sisters, my understanding is that if 'westermarck' fails, they work just as well as arranged-wives and the like
asciilifeform: (female, for whatever reason isn't successfully escaping, etc.)
asciilifeform not expert
mircea_popescu: i dunno about that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54409 @ 0.00040788 = 22.1923 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Andrés Segovia - Old Recordings (Bach,Scarlatti,Sor,Granados,Tàrrega,Malats,Mendelssohn) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdvrtm )
decimation: yeah I don't get how this 'black church postal' guy accomplished anything
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc thread was about 'police station postal' of about the same time
asciilifeform: (mostly newsblackouted)
decimation: the linked diatribe was the black church guy
decimation: his logic went somethingl ike 1.) found out black people suck 2.) "We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.
decimation: 3.) now what?
cazalla: profit
decimation: I guess
asciilifeform: 3) ??? 4) profit!!11!!
decimation: even if all he wanted was to increase the 'white team' 'score' at the expense of the 'black team' - it's not at all obvious that this was accomplished
cazalla: having read his little manifesto, the kid is without a doubt a /pol/ack (muh rhodesia, jews etc etc)
decimation: cazalla: it's like someone read moldbug but was unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless
mircea_popescu: oh i thought it was the police station guy
decimation: if anything, this only gives the 'witch hunters' even more ammo
asciilifeform: decimation: the 'alt right'-sphere's fixation with rhodesia is - afaik - definitively traceable to mr mold
decimation: agreed
decimation: in modern times, I suspect that's the case, yes
asciilifeform: decimation: i was arguing even beyond 'unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless' to 'clinically retarded'
cazalla: you can always find a national anthem of rhodesia thread on /pol/ too, lyrics and all lol
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I would agree with that too
asciilifeform: for instance, it is widely (afaik) known that the highest-scoring 'postal' in usa used a bottle of ordinary petrol as the weapon
decimation: is that the guy in the 1930's
asciilifeform: yet the schmucks insist on demonstrating their (lack of) marksmanship with grandfather's pistol or whatnot
asciilifeform: decimation: 90s
assbot: A very unfair perspective. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvasv )
trinque: bahaha this meme that if any whites suck, it's the fault of teh blacks
trinque: I read about as much of his little manifesto as I could be bothered to
decimation: mircea_popescu: I think that was after moldbug's article
trinque: sorry, blacks didn't do walmart and country music
decimation: I always figured you were inspired by him
asciilifeform: trinque: notice that it does not even occur to the tard to kill one of the ~actual~ architects of his misery
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: An open letter to open-minded progressives (part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvozY )
trinque: asciilifeform: of course not; guy's capable of "everything is because of the outgroup" and nothing more
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that's my point, even if he has decided black people suck, it's quite a leap to think that randomly murdering them is going to help anyone's lot
trinque: is that not the most primordial rationale of all time?
asciilifeform: mr mold is an incorrigible subscriber to the particular flavour of mental wankery described as 'resistance through culture' in one of mircea_popescu's articles
decimation: yeah he certainly does not advocate 'resistance through action'
trinque: asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt?
decimation: which is why it was so amusing that he was booted from that programming conference
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu might say that it is because mr mold has no balls. i would say that i cannot comment on whether he has balls, but will point out that having a brain is a handicap if contemplating active resistance to usg, without support of foreign army, from inside its walls
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: The country that used to exist ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdxjCf )
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, if 'having a brain' means seeing about two moves ahead - would put a damper on 'action'
asciilifeform: i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.
asciilifeform: the non-retarded version of this, where a fella spends 20 years in his garage building the 'strela', afaik has not yet happened.
decimation: asciilifeform: of course that man would probably meet a similar end
decimation: but is more likely to achieve some of his ends
assbot: Nobody could have foreseen their using a plane like a rocket on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvZl2 )
asciilifeform: best-known instance is probably 'killdozer'
asciilifeform: and notice, there was no army of killdozers to follow heevmeyer.
decimation: is that the police station guy?
asciilifeform: !s killdozer
assbot: 4 results for 'killdozer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=killdozer
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2014 00:38:27; punkman: as far as rampages go, the bulldozer guy was pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA
decimation: oh yeah him heh
asciilifeform: fact is, there is not any meaningful resistance to usg on own turf. there are criminals who imagine themselves resisting, e.g., mexican mafia, but actually live in symbiosis with 'war on drugs'
asciilifeform: just as there were smugglers in ussr
asciilifeform: some of whom imagined themselves 'resistance'
decimation: asciilifeform: no, in fact said mexicans end up justifying budgets for even more usg
mircea_popescu: decimation not that i know. link to what inspired me maybe ?
mircea_popescu: oh there it is ty.
decimation: yeah the second one in 2007
mircea_popescu: holy shit man. a quote from wikipedia and the next mention of the word in comments ?!
mircea_popescu: this guy's got a pretty fantastic racket. i hope i won't next hear i've heard about bitcoin from curtis yarvin.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 22:44:56; decimation: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html < here was yarvin's big article on rhodesia
mircea_popescu: <trinque> asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt? << it's a very specific locus to east european "anticomunism" of the contemptible kind.
mircea_popescu: not so unlike all the people who were planning to kill hitler, but never got around to it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a few months ago, i reread a selection of mr mold, and it struck me as loudly, profanely stinking of 'resistance through culture'
mircea_popescu: decimation aok
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, nothing in nature comes without a cost. flying bugs are not by this fact more fit than worms. even if flying is kinda cool.
asciilifeform: almost like he was laying groundwork to turn into a top contender for 'was planning to kill hitler' after the fact
mircea_popescu: intelligence also comes at a cost.
mircea_popescu: ones in charge of managing it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently that's working, at least to some degree, if people seriously consider him an influence on anything.
mircea_popescu: decimation ah ok i see what you mean.
mircea_popescu: alright, fine assumption, but i had no idea.
asciilifeform: mr mold could be described as a founder of a very depressive sort of 'dismal science' - where a great many folks with no cultural literacy to speak of, no remotely-plausible avenue for constructive action, were led to realize approximately how their civilization anally raped itself
asciilifeform: granted he only shows a kind of silhouette of the monster (all he personally is able to see with own eyes)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.0004106 = 4.4755 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but the tentacles are painted clearly enough
mircea_popescu: like "In fact, what Power really means is that a government "cannot survive indefinitely" if it defies the wishes of the international community. Ie, of, well - Power. Here we have the ultimate cause of Rhodesia's destruction. I believe this is a clear and undisputed fact."
asciilifeform: mr mold was raised by diplomats and knows well what 'international community' shibboleth actually means
asciilifeform: this is clear from the rest of the body of work
decimation: yeah, if anything his strongest indictments are against usg's foreign policy 'complex'
mircea_popescu: Todd, basically, was the Universalist to end all Universalists.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what!
mircea_popescu: ok the similarities are unnerving
mircea_popescu: what the fuck happened here.
mircea_popescu: so i write an article with a cultural grounding introduction referencing newman and proceed to the historical discussion, some guy writes (a decade prior) an article using tacitus in thesame function and casually mentioning garfield todd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: next you'll complain of melted brain on account of ancient chinese having had, almost word for word, euclid's gcd algo
mircea_popescu: one'd thing there is some room for personal taste in praxis and stylistics already
decimation: well, as yarvin himself wrote, "he truth, being true, is accessible to all - though not all will get it all."
asciilifeform: i for one, when first encountered mircea_popescu's articles, scarfed'em up on account of a feeling of 'like mr mold but without the latter's impotent thrashing and cultural illiteracy'
mircea_popescu: the telegraph obligingly deleted the linked reference to how the senator's daughter was raped by the praetorian guards, so now there's no reference.
mircea_popescu: fucktarded press
mircea_popescu: "What would Tacitus make of this? Frankly, I'm not sure he could even process it." << hot damned...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00041447 = 9.1183 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i think tacitus lived in a marble tub his entire life, in a museum in illyricum.
asciilifeform: moldbug, i will point out, speaks not one language save his native engl. that he was able to reconstruct even a semblance of coherent picture of anything while sitting in the anglo junkyard, is remarkable by itself
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, what you describe is roughly what attracted me to #b-a
mircea_popescu: that is a point.
mircea_popescu: "the battle between missionaries and settlers, which ended of course in the victory of the former, was the great conflict of colonialism." << this is broadly coirrect. in the us, decolonialization took the form of "dry states", the missionaries fought against settlers brandied as "the bar lobby" there.
mircea_popescu: i wonder where he picked up the tidbit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his entire thesis is that the more demented sects of puritanism merged together, shed the unnecessary legs and wings, and turned into usg as we know it (or rather, the original intellectual underpinnings thereof)
mircea_popescu: (and yes, i fundamentally do not like the guy because he reads exactly like andrei plesu, gabriel liiceanu or an entire smattering of entirely identical superficially "cultured", inept and impotent romanian "intellectuals" of the "Resistence throguh culture" brand).
decimation: asciilifeform: I kinda arrived at this thesis from a theological perspective earlier, which is also why moldbug appealed
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: The BDH-OV conflict ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEyCU7 )
mircea_popescu: i remember reading that at some point and not being impressed. prolly the log has my expletives, ima look.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the question that is of interest perhaps only to me, is whether mr mold has this 'smell' on account of character defect, or because he lives in a plesu-shaped box that he found no way of escaping
mircea_popescu: oh, you know the guy ?
asciilifeform: from mircea_popescu's articles
mircea_popescu: did you read the one about the german/romanian nobel prize woman debate ?
asciilifeform: dont think so
mircea_popescu: it was such fine closure.
mircea_popescu: ;;google site:trilema.com herta muller
gribble: критика и самокритика on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B8-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0>; Tipologiile homosexualitatii on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/tipologiile-homosexualitatii>; October 2010 on Trilema - A blog by (1 more message)
asciilifeform: thing about mr mold is that the impotent thrashing is very much that of the prisoner 'turning inward', as pictured in 'chess novella'
asciilifeform: the 'cost of intelligence', as mentioned earlier by mircea_popescu, is that the clever fella is not ever content to buy rifle, weld some steel on an old van, shoot out a police station window, and die
asciilifeform: because any moron can do that
asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
mircea_popescu: it's not cowardice per se, even though the drill sargeant thinks so. and the opposite view is not "deliberate stupidity"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well it was here site:trilema.com herta muller
assbot: Romania libera - stiri iesite din tipar - actualitate, investigatii, politica, cultura, diaspora, video, anunturi de mica publicitate ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEyZ0R )
mircea_popescu: but meanwhile it got beleeted. because press, ofcourse.
asciilifeform: memoryholed.
mircea_popescu: yeah. woman wiped the floor with the guy.
mircea_popescu: and this was obviously not acceptable, being how inept as he may be, and a fraud as he may be, nevertheless he is the palatial "scientist"
mircea_popescu: a less interested, more naive me kept no records.
asciilifeform: 'palatial scientist' only function on own turf, where he has a direct line to the palatial executioner. like lysenko did
mircea_popescu: well it is a romanian newspaper.
jurov runs crying to mircea_popsecu "i broke eulora again and chetty isn't around!!!"
mircea_popescu: now you've done it!
mircea_popescu: gotta wait till she comes by.
jurov: :)
mircea_popescu: i'm not gonna run it up myself because she was instrumented to test i dun recall what and i fear messing it up.
mircea_popescu: in other news, a more powerful me today has the intel dept ready to fix it for him! ha-HA! https://archive.is/Tpk6O
assbot: Dialogul Herta Muller-Gabriel Liiceanu, moment istoric pentru cultura română | Romania Libera ... ( http://bit.ly/1NegGLB )
jurov: yea, we'd miss chetty
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ if you feel like it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.00041447 = 9.4292 BTC [+]
jurov: how you instrumented her?
mircea_popescu: who what ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guy notably claims that he was resisting communism by not registering his typewriter.
mircea_popescu: fancy that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you believe, that type of character existed in su by the battallion
jurov: how did you instrument chetty?
mircea_popescu: im sure the fed is resisting socialism by not reporting all it prints to washington
mircea_popescu: jurov she did, the server
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform course i'd believe. even met some
jurov: i was jesting
mircea_popescu: but you weren't instrumented for it!
jurov: :(
asciilifeform: thinking folks, faced with 'chop wood in magadan or prostitute for the party' tend to end up 'getting down on knees, ready to please'
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, imagine that you were a 'closet dissenter' working for the fed. the most 'reform' you could get away with would be symbolic at best
asciilifeform: the exceptions - we don't even get to hear about.
asciilifeform: (because - how?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in any case, i had to spend half my fucking life yelling at people that "the difference between stupid and smart is that stupid can't be smart, BUT SMART CAN BE STUPID. IF YOU'RE UNWILLING TO EVER BE STUPID YOUR SMART'S JUST ANOTHER FLAVOUR OF DUMB!1111"
decimation: but I would also note that 'come be an inside reformer' is also a usg recruitment trick
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for how long would you personally be willing to 'run stupid on emulator' ?
asciilifeform: keep in mind that this is considerably more than is ever asked of stupid folks
mircea_popescu: for how long would you personally be willing to run a chip on the breadboard ?
asciilifeform: not sure how analogous
mircea_popescu: and no, stupid folks are perpetually asked to run smart on emulator, and they don't even have one.
mircea_popescu: hence "<mircea_popescu> yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules."
mircea_popescu: if intelligence is not an option, it is not intelligence.
mircea_popescu: vulp', all hipster like
asciilifeform: pronounced the way davout did, or more like 'gulp' ?
mircea_popescu: it's pronounced "phtephen"
asciilifeform: !up ben_vulp`
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fact is, folks who are placed in the unenviable position of 'emulate stupid' still try to use their mind. just like a prisoner in solitary cell, who theoretically does not really need legs for much of anything, will still wiggle them around
asciilifeform: the result, in best case, tends to be something like mr mold.
mircea_popescu: just as long as he doesn't wiggle them into kicks to his shn
mircea_popescu: your type of intelligent person is not unlike the guard that shoots himself on the third day, because bored.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: when i worked in u.s. army, a guard on the campus did just that
asciilifeform: whether it was on account of boredom, i never learned
mircea_popescu: not a very good guard.
asciilifeform: the difficulty of 'emulate stupid for the rest of your life' is likely the reason for the infamous u.s. police dept. which figured in a lawsuit where some schmuck was rejected from police academ for scoring too high on 'iq test'
mircea_popescu: the difficulty's not in question. the difficulty of finding wet cunts biweekly for the rest of your life is even more burdensome
mircea_popescu: what of it.
asciilifeform: incidentally, here in usaschwitz we have a plague called 'overqualification'
asciilifeform: where god help you if you have, say, uni degree and history of serious technical work, and suddenly need to make ends meet by digging trenches, washing dishes, etc
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it existed on the porn sets too.
mircea_popescu: most people wouldn't hire girls what went to school for the longest time.
asciilifeform: -- unless you can fabricate a convincing 'blue collar' work history and biography (in which case, work for cia...) you're phucked
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#813861 << the previous pass through that thing if anyone gas.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2014 00:38:19; mircea_popescu: "This should be reason enough for anyone to avoid taking up cudgels on behalf of either."
asciilifeform: ^ speaking of which, brings back to the point of whether mr mold is a disinfo agent. not that i can say definitively, but imho the best argument that he is not, is the difficulty of formulating a picture of a hypothetical 'moldbug minus the restraint' who does ~not~ advocate inaction
asciilifeform: what would this even look like?
asciilifeform: the question of why he is still alive and walking free in usaschwitz would naturally invite itself
asciilifeform: (leaving aside, even, the question of just ~what kind~ of non-inaction he would advocate..)
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-am-not-a-white-nationalist/#selection-933.0-933.687 << related, mostly because of the "The world belongs to the active, not to the thoughtful."
assbot: "Why I am not a white nationalist" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEBrV7 )
mircea_popescu: yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, being smart embodies no benefit.
asciilifeform: e.coli may not be very clever, but they have 'active' down pat.
asciilifeform: so perhaps world belongs - to them.
asciilifeform: (or to cockroaches?)
mircea_popescu: i don't seem to be much bothered by either, but sure.
decimation: only bothered if they manage to overpower your similiarly active immune system
mircea_popescu: which is in no part active because an intelligent being somewhere has failed to feed it crap for decades now
mircea_popescu: no small part*
asciilifeform: which brings back to the 'die in the van' thing
asciilifeform: and, for that matter, last week's question about coherent laser light
mircea_popescu: "Ian Smith could never have achieved any political prominence in prewar Britain, because his origins were decidedly middle-class": what, unlike Ramsay MacDonald, who was the bastard son of a farm servant, and twice PM?
asciilifeform: (as in, what makes it more interesting from an engineering perspective than white light)
mircea_popescu: first comment, too.
mircea_popescu: must suck to not have a clue.
asciilifeform: and the question of what differentiates a proper war from an idiot jaquerie
asciilifeform: (of which europe saw fuck knows how many, and all ended exactly the same way)
mircea_popescu: ever read caragiale's story of 1907 ?
asciilifeform: dont think so
mircea_popescu: it is excellent, on one hand because the man is supremely qualified - he is, no doubts about it, he who wrote romania's software, since the kingdom days - and because he actually lived it and saw it, and its context. top notch historical primary source.
assbot: O bucatica de istorie, sau 1907 din primavara pina in toamna, de Ion Luca Caragiale on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TECwfC )
mircea_popescu: it was memory holed at the time, and not well known since.
mircea_popescu: !up cosmo
cosmo: my what great service
jurov: yes, amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50208 @ 0.00040752 = 20.4608 BTC [-] {3}
cosmo: is bitshares legit
mircea_popescu: !s bitshares
assbot: 30 results for 'bitshares' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitshares
cosmo: i like what they're doing but i'm not sure how their 'shares' or coins or whatever are minted/distributed
mircea_popescu: you're too new here to say "i"
cosmo: :( okay
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00040558 = 7.199 BTC [-]
cosmo: all in on ppc
cazalla: cosmo, whether bitshares, ppc, ethereum's ether etc etc, they all have one thing in common
cosmo: and what's that cazalla ?
cazalla: its creators and followers are super keen to sell their 2.0 creation for bitcoin
cosmo: :D
cosmo: bitshares seems to be doing an interesting job with pegged assets
cosmo: and btc-e minting 5m ppc? something's up, i'll ride along
mircea_popescu: that reads like it was written by cosmo.
mircea_popescu: put some substance in the vapid verbiage oy.
cosmo: at least you're not the kickban type
cazalla: mircea_popescu, lol so is the contined "x is doing something interesting"
cazalla: continued even.. anyway cosmo forget the rest.. get ur bitcoin on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00040558 = 1.8859 BTC [-]
trinque: asciilifeform: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531268 << "Ugly hack was added to dieharder-3.31.1-r1." hehehe
assbot: Bug 531268 – app-crypt/dieharder-3.31.1 - In file included from bits.c:7: /usr/include/unistd.h:1043:20: error: unknown type name 'intptr_t' ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEE9tE )
trinque: I'm beginning to see that mathemetician-code is a thing.
asciilifeform: what am i looking at
asciilifeform: (other than corpse of 'diehard'. which is obvious)
trinque: asciilifeform: I lobbied the maintainer to patch the thing so it'd build
asciilifeform: all ~i~ know is:
asciilifeform: $ ls -l /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz
asciilifeform: -rw-rw-r-- 1 portage portage 1149780 Oct 14 2011 /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz
asciilifeform: it built on by box and runs there.
trinque: older glibc?
asciilifeform: at some point since - i'm told - stopped
asciilifeform: so culprit is to be found, and fed into woodchipper
asciilifeform: all other solutions are half-measures.
trinque: sounds like the build system for it is totally fucked
asciilifeform: glibc belongs in woodchipper regardless
trinque: one more on the pile of "needs to be rewritten by non-mathemetician"
asciilifeform: it has been praying, begging for it, for years
asciilifeform: fuck that. 'mathematician code' or not, it FUCKING WORKED IN 2011
trinque: doesn't mean it was any good then
asciilifeform: and does ~not~ today on no fault of its own
mircea_popescu: "Large areas of X, including entire major cities, have been ethnically cleansed by the departure of class-B people fleeing class-A violence."
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit. the dicklets are fleeing to escape their own ~sexual~ impotence.
trinque: asciilifeform: ah I don't buy that; the hairbrained thing it was doing is in that bug thread, I think
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: come to usa incognito (parachute?) sometime, i'll take you on a tour of 'what they escaped'
asciilifeform took the 'grandest' version of this tour once, in an old armoured wagen
mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: boston?
mircea_popescu: i dun need you to show me the port quarter. can find on own
asciilifeform: do find.
mircea_popescu: the incident in question where they assaulted some schmuky blond kid (and the police had to come - i wouldn't have bothered) was iirc alabama
mircea_popescu: maybe south carolina. thereabouts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00040558 = 5.7592 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: they are running away from their own sexual impotence.
asciilifeform: breaking everything not made of unbreakables and pissing/shitting/throwing fast 'food' garbage where one stands is 'sexual potence' ?
mircea_popescu: saying "nigger" is trolling ?
mircea_popescu: depends where.
mircea_popescu: violence got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. like 13 yo girls claiming they don't want to associate with boys because they smell, rather than the obvious "my vagina's not yet developed enough"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja visit the charred ruins left over from the folks for whom 'violence has nothing to do with it' burned to the ground ?
asciilifeform: i can admit some explanation of 'why burned' but to say that 'had nothing to do with it' is a tall glass to drink
mircea_popescu: i honestly, if i had to pick, would side with the "evil niggers" and beat the shit out of the pesky internet-addled "civilised" folk.
mircea_popescu: they're abominable.
asciilifeform: welcome to zimbabwe ?
asciilifeform: iirc they did this
mircea_popescu: nah, different demographics.
asciilifeform: how? slower modems ?
mircea_popescu: ironically, in zimbabwe i'd have definitely shot some mugabewites.
mircea_popescu: no, the boers were the hardy folk there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00040558 = 2.8796 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: shoulda shot the whole lot of niggers up.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is, taking a side requires there ~being~ a side.
asciilifeform: ussr tried to take 'the black side', result was comical
mircea_popescu: the discussion i'm derrinding, with "A's and B's" pretends there is
mircea_popescu: and i am pointing out that in that story... the author's side is abominable, and the story doesn't even credibly flow as he claims.
asciilifeform: mr mold, for his part, does eventually admit that the black mobs were an instrument of somebody quite else
asciilifeform: (a thesis he stole from 'the death of the american city')
mircea_popescu: im fully unconvinced by all this complicated, farcical, cinquecento-ish "string of instruments" puppet theatre.
mircea_popescu: i read italian, but i'm not an italian.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, plenty of usians are becoming quite end-of-world italians these days
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170296 <<< perhaps this explains the recent avalanche black cock tumblr images?
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 00:20:25; mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla was like a decade ago.
cazalla: well what do they say? abscence makes the heart grow fonder? :P
mircea_popescu: look, there is absolutely no way you will sell me on the theory that the leaving male is anything but the sexual inferior.
mircea_popescu: nature doesn't change while i sleep.
mircea_popescu: sure, every individual can do whatever the fuck they please for whatever random reasons, but when you're trying to discuss migration in statistical terms like he tries to discuss it - it's always a sexual matter.
cazalla: reminds me of the hamstrung kid in high school who hits back at his bullies but is inevitably bullied by teachers as well for responding
mircea_popescu: forget for a moment all the counting of "how many niggers ate white babies" or w/e and riddle me this :
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't a boxing match if one of the fellas in the ring has a pistol. the hordes had usg on their side
decimation: so moving to the ghetto and having your children play with needles on the street is what a real man would do?
mircea_popescu: how many white boys got sent upstate and ended up pimping out the female guards ?
mircea_popescu: and how many black boys are doing a shrem impersonation with "of course plea bargain" etc ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaactually quite a few
mircea_popescu: decimation yes. a real man would make more children.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: okay.
asciilifeform: !up wiz_
asciilifeform: ^ winner
mircea_popescu: it is pretty by definition. what else ?
decimation: I'm making children
mircea_popescu: a real cuisinart would make more cake batter.
decimation: but I have no reason to see them raised in a seething cesspool of crime
asciilifeform: again you folks all lose and e.coli wins
mircea_popescu: im not judging you in any sense. this is a sociology argument
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: let them go into the cesspool and die.
mircea_popescu: make more, you'll end up with some better ones.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'die' is not worst outcome of this hypothetical
cazalla: to make this many kids though one would need to engage in a little rape eh
mircea_popescu: you're not their mother. your job is to get them killed.
mircea_popescu: cazalla you'd be surprised how many women are ready to go, in places like teh usistan.
cazalla: you're gonna wanna double wrap it with such women though? defeats the purpose of fucking them to begin with
mircea_popescu: well, jack off next to them and release flies from your flies jar then
asciilifeform: l0l did we do the fly jar here?
mircea_popescu: might not be a real man, but it is pretty awesome crab-like
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall!
mircea_popescu: wonky freenode today eh
asciilifeform: monkey at ft meade was slow to change blown fuse.
mircea_popescu: i saw the hardware kind recently. was a surprise
mircea_popescu: they were russian made.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: edisonian 'screw fuse' ?
asciilifeform: or the resetable kind
mircea_popescu: exact same ceramic and cheap zamac caps
asciilifeform: guess what, until recently i lived in a dwelling in usa with ~just such~ fuse
asciilifeform: located at the top of a stairwell to nowhere in a deep cellar, top of staircase bricked up (near the base, a ~working~ toilet in the middle of bare cement, incidentally)
asciilifeform: plenty of folks here still live in such places, because just about every shop sells these fuses.
mircea_popescu: the automatics are both better cheaper and easer to use
asciilifeform: but someone would have to install them
mircea_popescu: they even sell screw-in automatics
asciilifeform: in those 1920s shitpits
asciilifeform: the screw-ins tend to be taller than edisonians, and panel won't close
asciilifeform: this is illegal per building code.
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha
mircea_popescu: get out.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu knew story would come to just such an observation, didn't he
mircea_popescu: so they inspect ?
asciilifeform: i witnessed inspections. did not know if 'fuse box closes' was on the list.
mircea_popescu: you have to appreciate i come from a land where a fire drill would have been laughed out of town
mircea_popescu: and moved to a similar one.
mircea_popescu: i recently discussed matters of student housing with a girl the right age from there
mircea_popescu: and i explain that yes, at the time girls just lived in whichever room, usually moving around for a day or a week or whatever by their friendship or allegiances or who had bfs over
mircea_popescu: romanian campus, hs and college, was always basicalyl one large slumbert party.
mircea_popescu: apparently in the us this wouldn't ever work because... inspections
mircea_popescu: and at that point my film broke. nigga... say wut ?! who's going to go knocking on your door ?!
mircea_popescu: and she was like... whywould they knock
mircea_popescu: such is the weird of socialism.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the dorm i lived in still had relics from the time of sex-segregated floors of bldg: bathrooms tiled in the traditional sickly pink or blue signifiers
asciilifeform: (in my time the separation was by left-right wings of floor)
mircea_popescu: generally the buildings are segregated, yes.
asciilifeform: as in whole bldg ?
mircea_popescu: i suspect this is mostly because human males do not actually wish to sleep with human females.
asciilifeform: this went out of style in usa some 50yrs ago
asciilifeform: but is sop in sov world, yes
mircea_popescu: i doubt to anyone's benefit, but okay.
asciilifeform did not cancel it himself, only watched
asciilifeform: actually mircea_popescu has mega-point:
asciilifeform lived for a spell as 'illegal agent' in the gurlz' wing, was not esp. quiet place
mircea_popescu: i don't think there exists a culture in which boys past the age of sexual maturity show any preference whatever to sleep with the women, just like girls of all ages much prefer to.
mircea_popescu: !up decimati1n
mircea_popescu: !up ericp4
mircea_popescu: reading comments on unqualified reservations, it occurs to me the main reason this guy got to be popular was being so amply wrong about so many things.
mircea_popescu: gives people something to talk about
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00040352 = 1.3316 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169687 << not really for this purpose. needs the cpu noise.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 18:16:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 18:29:13; asciilifeform: (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'
asciilifeform: only if cpu is the objective
asciilifeform: if kbd, ethernet, etc - no
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, i'm at the tail end of some very gnarly therealbitcoin surgery
mircea_popescu: well sure.
asciilifeform: no one should even dare to think of using what i'm about to drop in the ml, anywhere close to the front lines, without ~several~ literate folks having first read it.
asciilifeform: (this goes for all patches, but most of all this one. it affects virtually every major subsystem)
mircea_popescu: so then why make it ?
asciilifeform: also presupposes dns-zappers part 1 through 3, without which it is meaningless
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the objective is total removal of dns such that static build becomes possible.
mircea_popescu: that ends up touching everything ?!
asciilifeform: see for yourself. grep your tree, case-insensitively, for 'dns' and then for 'lookup'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00040987 = 1.7624 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> !up ben_vulp` << 'tis the french pronounciation
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active. << balanced against that "impotent activity"
mircea_popescu: the thing is, derp sitting at home and seeking supportive subreddits for his drawings is never going to figure out he's fucked in the head.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile guy trying to piss on electric fence won't stay stupid long
mircea_popescu: one way or another.
ben_vulpes has lost track of all the zappings from unexpectedly electrified...trees
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15952 @ 0.00040778 = 6.5049 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: aaaand...
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: '(EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke!'
asciilifeform: fully static build should now be theoretically possible.
mod6: oh nice.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: needs testing
asciilifeform: not simply 'does it fetch blocks' (it does)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00041447 = 1.9895 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but specifically of several affected pieces such as -addnode
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the irc falls over for whatever reason this thing is dead.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not meant to rely on rc
asciilifeform: but to use as we discussed
asciilifeform: with config file
mircea_popescu: so this is actually something of purely academic interest - shoud not be run as is period.
asciilifeform: irc is only in there because presently this is very easy means of discovering mostly-ungavinized nodes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually this is the only version that could conceivably function on uclibc/pogo
mircea_popescu: but only after we get a seed list
asciilifeform: hence we need seeds
asciilifeform: it is also one minor patch away from having all magic/hardcoded net addrs stripped away
asciilifeform: and hence long-term rom-weaponizable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: you now have homework. it being, to read & actually grok the sequence of 4 'dns thermonuke' patches.
asciilifeform: (1st 3 are rather simple)
mircea_popescu: basically it takes out fNameLookup and forces a function to always return false.
asciilifeform: not only.
asciilifeform: also excises the cruft that was invoked when the latter was true
asciilifeform: and also removes hardcoded hostname from irc.cpp
asciilifeform: and removes dns disable flag from args parser
mircea_popescu: CAddress addrIRC("irc.lfnet.org", 6667, true);
asciilifeform: anyway no point in recounting the lines of the patch here
asciilifeform: who wants - go, read
asciilifeform: ferphuxxsake read.
asciilifeform: after satisfied with this patch, therealbitcoin folks ought to try the static build again
mircea_popescu: CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ?
asciilifeform: and see if the libnss idiocy goes away quietly
mircea_popescu: that way it can be fuzzed
ben_vulpes: wouldn't be the foundation mircea_popescu so much as my personal account
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the irc module has begged to be fuzzed long ago
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i'd donate teh cost
asciilifeform: there is some gnarly string handling in there, and i quite suspect it is exploitable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform makes two of us.
asciilifeform: which is why i'd kinda like to lose the irc thing eventually
mircea_popescu: fuzz it first.
ben_vulpes: ooh fuzzing
asciilifeform: right now it is simply a very convenient spot to find pre-gavinization nodes
mircea_popescu: or fuzzers.
asciilifeform: i must now confess that i began this a while ago, but never had time to properly pursue.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you're willing to donate the cost, why not run it through the bitcoin host?
mircea_popescu: rechristian it as the bitcoin foundation too ?
ben_vulpes: eh, pardon?
mircea_popescu: to which part ?
ben_vulpes: the rechristening
ben_vulpes: rechristen la serenissima's bitcoin host as the bitcoin foundation?
mircea_popescu: if the bitcoin host is the go-to thing for this job, it's the bitcoin foundation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00041485 = 2.3024 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu is trying to say that jurov ought to break open the piggy and pony up
mircea_popescu: a not at all.
asciilifeform: if bitcoin-host is to host this
mircea_popescu: contrariwise - that why we have teh foundation is centrally so it participates in this sort of activity
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ? << I can test this with my aws, sure. unless you guys are proposing something else i.e. spinning up our own ircd
ben_vulpes: mod6: i think the ask is for a long-running public node.
mircea_popescu: mod6 how valuable and how difficult dja think spinning an ircd compatible with lfnet would be ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no, this is a temporary test thing, to see just how bad alf's latest butchery affects things
asciilifeform hoses off chopping block
mod6 thinks
assbot: monitors irc.lfnet.org:6667#bitcoin and extracts user details ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWsC8p )
ben_vulpes: aha well i'll be testing it on my own checkbook's back anyways
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha 10,001 folks wrote some version of this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu : i certainly had one
mod6: well, i've run ircd hybrid many times myself. ran one for /years/. but not sure what lfnet is about really. need to look into that. but whatever it might be, it'll need to be resistant to getting packeted, unless just run for a short time for testing.
mircea_popescu: you run it closed loop, with your own bitcoin-as-snipped above
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though for some odd reason the linked script joins #bitcoin rather than #bitcoinXX (where XX in {0, 99})
mircea_popescu: part of it is to see how well bitcoin holds up by being hosed from the irc side.
mircea_popescu: part of it is to have a backup in case lfnet is a piece of shit / the enemy. which is pretty likely.
asciilifeform: as far as i can see, there is nothing nonstandard about lfnet
asciilifeform: channels #bitcoin00 through #bitcoin99 must exist or auto-create
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think they run more or less basic ircd ya
asciilifeform: that's more or less it.
asciilifeform: i will repeat my observation that the irc seeder thing ~does not belong in the client~
mod6: CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ? << i think we should make this ip non-static, configurable from a file. these IPs can change at anytime/be honeynet, etc.
asciilifeform: if someone wants to extract seeds from that thing in real time, and forward them to therealbitcoin - that'd be grand
mircea_popescu: mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per.
asciilifeform: but the gnarly piece of shit irc.cpp gotta go.
asciilifeform: mod6: i deliberately left that out
asciilifeform: (as explained on ml)
decimation: why not ircd that is linked to assbot wot?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per. << makes sense. just wanted to "voice" that concern.
asciilifeform: mod6: i am trying to set a kind of example for how one ought to do the patches
mod6: I like it.
asciilifeform: that somewhat flies in the face of the tradition of 'all in one pot'
asciilifeform: because we are not running 'chinese restaurant'
mircea_popescu: decimation gossipd is not ready yet. freenode you mean ?
mod6: yeah, it's good. breaks things up a bit, easier to read.
decimation: I guess I mean something like gossipd
asciilifeform: gossipd is strictly necessary - if only for authenticable nodes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00042177 = 4.8082 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: (at the moment, enemy controlling routing backbone can silently diddle virtually everything)
mod6: So currently, I'm trying to get gcc patched to see if we can even build the R.I. with gcc/uclibc. Would it be prudent to finish that work before moving on to testing this DNS amputation?
mod6: I think that would be the best course of action.
asciilifeform: mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc
mircea_popescu: mod6 depends on how advanced the work is. how advanced is it ?
decimation: asciilifeform: did you see those gcc bugs?
asciilifeform: decimation: i saw a number of gcc bugs
assbot: Logged on 11-06-2015 03:34:37; decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue
decimation: something about weak symbols being optimized out under certain conditions
mod6: I, with trinque's help, need to patch gcc 4.8.4 with gentoo using /etc/portage/patches via ebuild flag(?). If that works, then I can test that the R.I. will link properly. If that works, maybe we finally have static apple pie.
mod6: Probably need a week to sort it out -- might take rest of month.
decimation: might explain mod6's weird ulibc link shit
mod6: For me, doing this first is imperitive as even if the DNS amputation works, if we can't compile it with uclibc, it doesn't matter anyway.
decimation: at any rate, I'm going on a geologic tour tomorrow, I need to catch some sleep
mod6: night
asciilifeform: goodnight decimation
decimation: good luck with debugging gcc
mircea_popescu: mod6 aite.
mod6: Does that make sense? Or am I off course here?
asciilifeform: mod6 et al: what order to try things in is up to you lot
mircea_popescu: this thing is not so much an emergency as something that needs to be done. if it sees the light of box this month say it's perfect.
mod6: Ok, no prob. :]
mod6: I'll put it in the list. We'll revisit all of this soon.
mircea_popescu: anwyay. there's no argument that the irc thing has to go.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc << this is a chicken/egg problem yeah. maybe we can't get it fully built because of the whole gethostbyname libnss bullshit. but if we can at least ensure that it'll link properly, that's huge. then, even if it's not fully statuc because of that, we can amputate dns with your patches and retry.
mod6: by "link properly", i mean overcoming this:
mod6: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../libc.a(jmp-unwind.os): relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against undefined symbol `__GI___pthread_cleanup_upto' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
mod6: decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue << i just really hope this applies cleanly, and "works".
mod6: if not, we might have to McGuyver our own patch.
asciilifeform: incidentally,
asciilifeform: why aren't we using a period gcc ?
mod6: or upgrade to a much more uplevel version of gcc to test and see if that works instead. iirc, version 5.x included a fix for this? maybe 4.9.x did too.
asciilifeform: anyone tried 3.x ?
mod6: period gcc? as-in, something very recent?
mircea_popescu: as in of 2011
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea
asciilifeform: somebody wanna go down into cellar and fetch a 2011 (or prior) gcc tarball, hash, sign ?
mod6: ah, hmm. sure, we could give that a shot instead if you think its worth my/our time.
ben_vulpes: more vendored dependencies!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: compilator is ~the~ dependency
asciilifeform: all else - small change, in comparison.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, definitely. esp if current one giving you trouble.
mod6: So, I think I'm gonna stay the course on trying to patch 4.8.4... if we get into a giant hassle with it, we'll cut bait for the time being and try to build something like 3.7 and try that.
mod6: I think trinque and I need like 2 evenings of working on it to find out how ugly its gonna be.
trinque: mod6: I'll be home in roughly an hour btw
trinque: I have no strong opinion regarding uclibc vs glibc, as I haven't used the former at all before this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: btw, irc is still in there for another reason: how node gets own external ipv4
mod6: either have I, but glibc is full of trickery.
asciilifeform: this, too, will have to find a new home
mircea_popescu: config file.
mircea_popescu: computers get their public names the same way women do : owner states it.
asciilifeform: logical place for it
asciilifeform: except gets gnarly with dynamic ip boxes
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, not for the very poor.
mircea_popescu: C block allocation was, last i checked, <100 a year.
asciilifeform: afaik no u.s. residential isp has any place to plug these in
asciilifeform: (this is minor annoyance where i live, my ip changes 1-2x/year)
trinque: ^same
trinque: or cumcast will sell you one for 10-15 extra per month
mod6: yeah i think my /27 used to be like ~$10/mo
mircea_popescu: srsly, 10 bux.
asciilifeform: 'verizon' fiber will not sell static in residential zone for any price.
trinque: verizon are known scamz0rz
mircea_popescu: i guess you're stuck servicing the things
asciilifeform: also known as only supplier of reasonable net pipe in the entire region
asciilifeform: (for residential zones)
mod6: yeah that /27 was through Qwest (now CenturyLink (usg isp)), now 1 static is included from cumcast "out of the box" iirc.
trinque: cronjob curl and icanhazip.com lol
mircea_popescu: well... you don't plan on being there long anyway, so.
trinque starts driving
asciilifeform: btw am i the only one who thinks it to be utterly retarded that the protocol requires a node to know own external ip ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think so.
asciilifeform: say i connect to remote machine. it ought to know where i connected from
mircea_popescu: what's so retarded about it ?
asciilifeform: by virtue of my having connected
asciilifeform: just how ip works
mircea_popescu: not so, hence proxies.
asciilifeform: requiring folks to have reasonable nat-traversal arrangements would not be insane, i think
mircea_popescu: more insane than requiring machines to know their name.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6866 @ 0.00042177 = 2.8959 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: myeah this gets back to my question about the necessity of the IP address in the protocol.
ben_vulpes: a) how is this an actually necessary thing
ben_vulpes: no, no b.
ben_vulpes: by virtue of the socket being opened, the receiving node should be able to just write to that (file descriptor, i think is the abstraction?) and let the NIC handle the package addressing - correct?
ben_vulpes: packet*
ben_vulpes: i might be colossally retarded this is always possible
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrLocalHost ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvMcg )
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrMe ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvPEY )
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvQZn )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00042177 = 2.1932 BTC [+]
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvRMX )
ben_vulpes: i'm rusty on this particular bit of logic
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: linked lines show where thing indeed shits out 'here is my ip' in-band
ben_vulpes: myes, i see that. what i'm not 100% on is the impact to the receiving node of having garbage in that field.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they will answer to the garbage
ben_vulpes: what do you mean "answer": attempt to talk to the provided IP instead of the connection abstraction provided by the machine?
asciilifeform: iirc yes
asciilifeform digs in the pile of shit
ben_vulpes: b-b-but that's insane
ben_vulpes: why not just talk on the open connection?
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0395 << this implies the connection isn't dependent on the broadcasted IP at all
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7lemO )
ben_vulpes: but whaddoino
mod6: yeah, the network stuff (having read Stevens' stuff (UNIX Network Programming Vol 1&2)) makes me cringe.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00042177 = 2.5517 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24795 @ 0.00042177 = 10.4578 BTC [+]
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwyWz )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1364 << here, i think, is your boojum
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwDtm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00042177 = 4.9558 BTC [+]
assbot: dpaste: 3QSDKP7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7mXsu )
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the problem you two see
mircea_popescu: of course it talks to whatever it's told to talk to.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: study any other classical protocol (e.g., ftp)
asciilifeform: nothing like this appears therein
asciilifeform: i don't see any 'win' from it
asciilifeform: given how it lives in protocol, cannot really be removed. but still retarded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13387 @ 0.00042007 = 5.6235 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: once a tcp socket is opened, there is two-way communication.
asciilifeform: without any intrinsic need for either side to say 'and here is my ip'
asciilifeform: (for socket to happen, at least one of the ends had to know the other's, yes)
mircea_popescu: this sounds like an argument against assfucking. "because there's a cunt there"
asciilifeform: more like earfucking
mircea_popescu: i mean, what is it, just because it's different ?
asciilifeform: nosefucking.
mircea_popescu: so bitcoin does earfucking.
asciilifeform: of own sisters.
mircea_popescu: i am inclined to believe this is more likely the result of original author having nfi how tcp works rathger than having an idea about some obscure weakness he's deliberately mitigating
asciilifeform: well sure.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, "it's strange" is not much of an arghument is it ?
asciilifeform: hence 'retarded'
mircea_popescu: no, retarded is a different degree. has to be actively dysfunctional somehow
mircea_popescu: rather than just ignarous.
asciilifeform: dysfunctional in that it was the glass that glued the 'showmyip' thing in there
mircea_popescu: hoiw the fuck do you even say this in english
mircea_popescu: apparently ignare is actually an english word
cazalla: hanbot, published (good read)
asciilifeform: the 'speak own ip' thing did indeed drag in a whole mess of crap that had no business being in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: can you see any reason he'd suspect the ip provided by the socket ?
asciilifeform: if you're at the stage of suspecting a diddled socket, time to use actual asymmetric crypto
asciilifeform: weird kludge adds nothing
mircea_popescu: i dunno. i don't understand internets - which is common, admitting it is rare
mircea_popescu: who the fuck knows what ddos.
asciilifeform: '"We tried to get him mental help numerous times, but the system failed him, because he was declared 'sane'," his family has said.' << mega-l0l!
mircea_popescu: double ratios for tyhe hero's family
mircea_popescu: they can have jam today.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.0004186 = 4.0186 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform just now realized that mr. death-van ~bought~ rather than built the thing
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it's a subtle kind of malevolence wherein needless complexity is all of a sudden necessary because of a subtle misunderstanding of the bedrock
ben_vulpes: subtle subtle subtle subtle
ben_vulpes: i can't words good today.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah.
mircea_popescu: still, the conservative approach in unknown terrain has yet to be beaten in the field.
asciilifeform: ^ i'll sign under this with proviso that terrain is indeed ~unknown~
mircea_popescu: daring acts of bravado belong to they in possession of a map.
ben_vulpes: or the bravely foolish.
mod6: who knows why satoshi put that in there. i kinda find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have understood IP headers. perhaps he was trying to ensure that every connecting node was indeed a real host, not some spoofed packet magic.
mircea_popescu: that could not spoof the ip address ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15543 @ 0.00042164 = 6.5536 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: not like messages are signed or anythinmg
mod6: yeah, no clue.
mod6: just grasping at straws. maybe the simplest answer is the correct one: he just didn't know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.0004173 = 5.1328 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11514 @ 0.0004146 = 4.7737 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: do we even know that that part of the wire protocol is his handiwork?
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a good reason why bitcoind had to be a multithreaded proggy?
mod6: good point, i shouldn't speculate about weather satoshi wrote that or not without looking at MP's submission of the original bitcoin. (http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html)
mod6: anyway, im /exausted/. have a good night!
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