Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-09 | 2015-05-11 → ↓
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the fuck does this mean, stealing his gurl's ticket
mircea_popescu: decimation nah, it was concrete
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "Gerrit workflow - Gerrit interprets each Git commit as an individual change. Changes are autobuilt by Jenkins, and can be reviewed by developers. Once a change has gotten a positive review and has no build issues, it is applied to the master branch. Thus, no developer directly pushes to master."
mircea_popescu: because it's retarded.
mircea_popescu: go to all that trouble to introduce git hooks to sign, eschew pgp. i wouldn't use them to put a fire out.
ben_vulpes: meh, i bet her return's sloppy
ben_vulpes is pleased
ben_vulpes: dude html is the worst
ben_vulpes: p and and and ul and div and everything are just so floppy all of the time and used in such wildly divergent ways
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fuck does this mean << what it looked like: she was leaving town, he tried to get in the way
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Gerrit workflow - Gerrit interprets each Git commit ... << wtf why even
asciilifeform: how mircea_popescu even came to see this cthonian horror.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.00026314 = 7.4732 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from their "download" page. http://www.coreboot.org/ click download
assbot: coreboot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa84dr )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14081 @ 0.00026314 = 3.7053 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37927 @ 0.00025979 = 9.8531 BTC [-]
assbot: Mircea Popescu on Wikipedia : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1dUYYAO )
mircea_popescu: ;;seen chillum
gribble: chillum was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Chillum> I have never understood how a 1 paragraph post that links to a full article somehow makes it to the top of google searches. They are adding basically nothing
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell chillum hey, you gonna ban that dude now ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: MPEx owner getting letters from US gov, in danger of being extradited to US to stand trial : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1H6JjYB )
mircea_popescu: who knew reddit actually becomes funny after a year or so.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25626 @ 0.00025702 = 6.5864 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9334 @ 0.00026063 = 2.4327 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46616 @ 0.00026322 = 12.2703 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: In what world are "smart contracts" actually a good idea? : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1H6Lrzx )
mircea_popescu: we don't usually discuss it because it's so amply obvious, but just in case.
davout: asciilifeform: so i managed to get "busybox mkfs.ext2 /dev/sda1" working on the pogo by using buildroot-2015.05-rc1 instead of 2015.02, applying your patches (which do apply cleanly), apply my WIP-patch, and boot on that
davout: as the little work would say: 'victory is mine!'
davout: so now my next issue is when trying to run your experimental armv5 build i get:
davout: "/bin/sh: ./bitcoind-armv5-traditional_b8eec4fa118ba1deefa35af38fe58ae160ec22f4: not found"
davout: *worm btw
davout: oh and ben_vulpes, by 'real computer' I mean any non-Apple machine, that'll always be a good improvememnt :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39979 @ 0.00026338 = 10.5297 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47651 @ 0.0002644 = 12.5989 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11221 @ 0.00026432 = 2.9659 BTC [-]
davout: running the experimental armv5 binary doesn't work either, with same error, on the buildroot-2015.02 kernel
davout: however, mounting the ext2 partition works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105301 @ 0.0002644 = 27.8416 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44923 @ 0.0002597 = 11.6665 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00026475 = 2.8328 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: http://www.theonion.com/article/god-realizes-he-forgot-put-souls-humans-50378
assbot: God Realizes He Forgot To Put Souls In Humans - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1F70ZUC )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40589 @ 0.00026141 = 10.6104 BTC [-]
jurov: funkenstein_: more like He forgot to debug such an optional feature and resorted to monkey-patching
jurov: and it's prolly where that term comes from
Naphex: Khipus, the ancient blockchains. Had much of the security model as well
assbot: Ancient Scripts: Quipu ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzTLYS )
assbot: The Inca Quipu - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzTXHA )
jurov: stahp! ancient mystery is non-renewable resource! http://www.ancientscripts.com/quipu.html
assbot: Ancient Scripts: Quipu ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzU2uO )
assbot: the Fog of Meat ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzU31Y )
Naphex: hehe, might not be the best source
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Header image now 300kb not 2mb
jurov: /msg williamdunne yea got the stego data alright
jurov: oops
williamdunne: jurov: eh?
jurov: kakobrekla: pls remove the last 3 lines
jurov: (just trolling you)
assbot: Code Red Dead Ahead: historical chart of average blocksize and network-imposed blocksize limits - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1PzMxpB )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126958 << it won't work, because no one has, yet, a fully static build. see logs.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 09:59:48; davout: "/bin/sh: ./bitcoind-armv5-traditional_b8eec4fa118ba1deefa35af38fe58ae160ec22f4: not found"
asciilifeform: the uniquely idiotic error message, 'not found', refers to glibc and its turds (libnss etc)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126936 << one of the nice things about having the source, regardless of how idiotic the dev process which produced it, is cutting away the crud. which you can do with coreboot, just as with bitcoind etc.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 07:09:51; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from their "download" page. http://www.coreboot.org/ click download
asciilifeform: so, for instance, if you -never- run winblows, you can nix -all- of classical x86 bios-compatibility turd
asciilifeform: can even stuff your favourite kernel in the resulting cavity.
asciilifeform: and boot directly to it. you then will have guaranteed function for all of your disks, other peripherals, etc. which worked under that linux kernel
asciilifeform: it no longer matters if the idiot bios your motherboard vendor supplied understands what a flash stick, etc. is.
decimation: asciilifeform: I wish there were a curated release of coreboot
asciilifeform: decimation: i'd consider doing this, but doubt there is any serious demand
decimation: reading through some of the 'hardware support' pages, it seems like getting to boot is rarely straightforward
asciilifeform: decimation: ultra-straightforward on non-retarded hardware
asciilifeform: however, this means amd.
decimation: yeah, everything else is iffy
asciilifeform: which is in the process of going extinct
decimation: interestingly it appears that google uses it for their chromebooks
asciilifeform: google gets nonpublic info from chip vendors and then pisses all over gpl.
decimation: yeah, like most hardware vendors
decimation: actually I kinda wonder what the 'inside story' is in the bios business
asciilifeform: several years ago, i bought the arm chipset chromebook and tried in vain, for ages, to install gentoo on it
asciilifeform: thing is, they shipped it with gentoo
decimation: why do hardware vendors continually purchase the same american microtrends turds?
asciilifeform: but with a mountain of closed turds to make the hardware go.
asciilifeform: decimation: because there are not so many firms with access to intel initialization turds
asciilifeform: phun phact: virtually everything we publicly know re: how an intel cpu inits comes from the great ami bios source leaks
asciilifeform: (one in '98, and another more recent one)
decimation: wow, I"ve never tried to boot intel myself
asciilifeform: x86 simply desperately must die.
decimation: I always figured the instructions were in a databook
asciilifeform: i will go on record as objecting to anything which extends its life
asciilifeform: thing is, when it dies, arm will become the new x86.
decimation: yeah but the world seems to be adopting the arm turd instead
asciilifeform: it will be in some ways a much deeper and more fetid pit.
decimation: yeah, arm has like 20 versions
decimation: and they seem to have no issue with pumping out more
asciilifeform: that's not even the boojum here
asciilifeform: rather, it is that arm is implemented by 'licensees' who get an opaque turd
asciilifeform: which turns into a chip with minimal human intervention
decimation: how does that work? wouldn't they need to integrate with the fab design tools?
asciilifeform: decimation: everyone uses same tools
decimation: so you get a 'partially compiled' black box turd? it's amazing hardware vendors put up with that kind of shit
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: afaik there are -no- independent (as in, based on published documents) reimplementations of arm in production today.
decimation: no, not in production
asciilifeform: decimation: this is absolute SOP among hardware makers
asciilifeform: virtually everything that is produced today is simply a 'model airplane' glued from opaque libraryturds licensed from N vendors
decimation: yeah that's depressing as hell
decimation: it's clear that man's ability to manufacture small transistors has outstripped his ability to properly design with them
asciilifeform: as far as usg is concerned, this kind of design -is- proper
asciilifeform: the only proper.
asciilifeform: as for the free world, it has -not one chip fab- to its name
asciilifeform: (no, cn, ru, etc. are not 'free world' in this sense, they run winblows toolchains and operate overwhelmingly on designs cribbed wholesale without any attempt whatsoever to fit in any head)
asciilifeform: cn produces -licensed- arm. this tells you what you need to know about their process.
asciilifeform: even their 'loongson' mips, in latest versions, appears to use the official licensed mips corp. designs.
asciilifeform: cn appears to have no traces whatsoever of any indigenous tradition of cpu design. and they understand what kind of investment would be involved in changing this, and behave perfectly logically from economic point of view, and say 'fuck that'
asciilifeform: ru has indigenous cpu design tradition, and many of the folks who were at it prior to the great 'warez shift' of mid-'70s, when compatibility with western cpus was mandated from above - are still alive
asciilifeform: but ru is not interested in exporting cpu.
asciilifeform: nor are their fabs (last i checked) toolchain-clean in terms of 100% usg-free.
decimation: one wonders why these other countries don't perceive this as a 'sovereignty' issue
asciilifeform: they do
asciilifeform: but this is the ultimate lemon market
decimation: Maybe cn figures they can use us warez until they grow rich enough to toss a few coin toward this concept
asciilifeform: in -every- case, the sc4mz0rz who are willing to use 'a little bit' of usg toolchain, overwhelmingly win on cost and speed
asciilifeform: hence why ru missile controllers are built using ancient soviet arch, yes, but the fab is winblows-controlled and the design turns from circuit to mask also in winblows
decimation: still, merely making an 'open fpga' would be a big improvement
asciilifeform: making so much as an open full-adder would be an astonishing feat
asciilifeform: which is why i suspect we'll be crafting discrete logic cpu again before this is all over.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: if one had a working implementation of a silicon cpu (like msp430), wouldn't you be able to test the silicon version against an fpga simulator?
asciilifeform: for one thing, what does it even mean to test one thing against another ?
asciilifeform: for another, fpga and the genuine article can never be comparable on account of ruinous delays in the latter
decimation: well, run software and perform a timing analysis
decimation: and also voltage
decimation: but I agree, it would be impossible to make clock-exact version of a silicon cpu without heavy support from the manufacturer
asciilifeform: there is a more fundamental problem here, which i think we discussed in at least one old thread
asciilifeform: which is, the basic idea of integrated circuit, as we know it, is inherently centralizing
asciilifeform: and i dare say, usg-izing.
decimation: yeah, one can insert trapdoor nasties too
asciilifeform: that's not even half of it
asciilifeform: just the 'palace economy' you inherently get, from a chip fab costing what it costs
asciilifeform: the nasties etc. flow from this
asciilifeform: not vice-versa
asciilifeform: integrated circuit is an inherently 'statal' institution.
asciilifeform: like manned space travel.
asciilifeform: (using presently-known tech, which relies on newton's 3rd law)
ben_vulpes: b-b-b-but em drive!
decimation: em drive uses newton's third law too
decimation: asciilifeform: the only solution is to make silicon fabs cost about 100-1000x less
asciilifeform: rather like saying 'only solution would be space vehicles which cost 1000x less'
asciilifeform: no one has the faintest idea - how.
decimation: actually making rocket launches cheaper is easy in comparison
asciilifeform: considerably.
asciilifeform: (much of the cost of a launch is political, largely bakshish)
decimation: yeah I think I linked herr walker's rant about how the nazis were only paying about $20k per v-2 launch
decimation: there's no reason why leo need be much more expensive than that
decimation: at any rate, less than $1 mil for small payloads
asciilifeform: one of the reasons why si fab costs what it does is that many of the necessary components are made in 2, 3, locations globally
asciilifeform: and made, essentially, to order
decimation: you mean things like the euv light source, etc?
asciilifeform: virtually any item you'd care to name
asciilifeform: (and do we consider refining the si to be part of fab process? my understanding is that it is usually done by separate firm, devoted to it. and how many are there of these ?)
asciilifeform: how many makers of the equipment ?
decimation: yes, and most of the components require constant expert handholding & maintenance
asciilifeform: dig down, and you will find that most of integrated circuit industry on planet3 ultimately lives and dies by the work of a handful of people.
decimation: this is why it looked rational for ibm to pay to take this business off their hands
asciilifeform: and that cn, ru silicon sovereignty is a sham of the most laughable kind.
asciilifeform: su - had it
asciilifeform: until they decided, again economically entirely rationally, that it costs far too much for no tangible gain
asciilifeform: shortly after they began to act 'rationally' su was no more
asciilifeform: because sovereignty is not a 'rational' thing
asciilifeform: and cannot be
decimation: no, it always looks like a loser on a purely accounting basis
asciilifeform: the 'economically rational' thing to do, is, invariably, to suck cock of highest bidder.
asciilifeform: what's the ROI on a tank? sub? nuke?
ben_vulpes: reminds me of apple maintaining os x for the intel arch
decimation: but on the flip side you can print scrip and force your subjects to honor it
decimation: !up funkenstein_
assbot: Logged on 24-11-2014 22:59:29; asciilifeform: without sovereignty, 'your' tractor - isn't yours. it belongs (along with your starfish) to the big boys.
jurov: if they did not act 'rationally' su would survive?
funkenstein_: thanks, perhaps like the saturn rocket, there will come a day when nobody knows how to build one
asciilifeform: jurov: quite possibly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61771 @ 0.00026065 = 16.1006 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: jurov: ultimately, survival is not a rational act, if you think about it. eating a bullet is always 'cheaper'
jurov: how caould it survive with dwindling population?
jurov: that increasingly sees whole exercise as utterly pointless?
asciilifeform: that's the thing, the 'increasingly sees as pointless' was after things turned 'rational'
asciilifeform: and the criteria became 'which kingdom can make cheaper jeans'
asciilifeform: when it was, instead, 'who has longest sovereignty cock' - folks willingly died for the glory of $empire, yes
asciilifeform: british, or su, or usg
asciilifeform: or rome
asciilifeform: same dynamic.
asciilifeform: !s nobody dies for hotel
assbot: 0 results for 'nobody dies for hotel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nobody+dies+for+hotel
jurov: how it can be done when everyone has atomic weapons?
jurov: only by local conflicts and attrition
jurov: su was bad at that
jurov: usg bad,too but more fuel
ben_vulpes: morning, mike_c
ben_vulpes: IT BEGINS
jurov stares towards fox kennel
mircea_popescu: you have a fox kennel ?
jurov: yea, ben_vulpes lives there
mike_c: good afternoon ben.
mircea_popescu: what bengins!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129150 @ 0.00026332 = 34.0078 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:00:47; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126958 << it won't work, because no one has, yet, a fully static build. see logs.
davout: from what i grasped, the issue is that glibc is pulling some random bits in, dynamically
ben_vulpes: i'm beigneting
davout: and i was confused because i didn't remember that danielpbarron's pogo runs a debian thing, hence able to run bitcoind
mircea_popescu: davec originally thought it was libnss meanwhile found a "retarded languages should be supported too" thing
jurov: ben_vulpes are you alright?
danielpbarron: davout, Arch. i couldn't get it to run on debian
davout: he's beigneting, he would be!
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 00:00:19; pete_dushenski: Fast fwd to yesterday. I wasn't home yet from work, but my wife tells me local LE showed up and wanted to have a "chat". Asked if I or anone had ever ordered anything illicit in the mail. Said "nobody's in trouble, we're just following up on something that might be nothing"."
mircea_popescu: "nobody's in trouble" ? what are you, the kindergarten supervisor ?
assbot: beignet - Recherche Google ... ( http://bit.ly/1KygRiU )
jurov: don't feed the animals!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126960 << ruby hipster that despises apple ?! what's this world shattered into!
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 10:11:00; davout: oh and ben_vulpes, by 'real computer' I mean any non-Apple machine, that'll always be a good improvememnt :D
davout: danielpbarron: right
davout: mircea_popescu: i iz no hipster
davout: mircea_popescu: you're the one with the trendy beard
mircea_popescu: you're french!
mircea_popescu: and you got wild hair! wtf no hipster are you talking about!
mircea_popescu: being french -automatically-> hipster. ask anyone in socal.
davout: mircea_popescu: hipsters have carefully crafted wild hair, mine's natural
jurov: you're natural hipster
davout: fuck you all, i'm leaving, going back to brewing my own beer and growing vegetables on my balcony
mircea_popescu: hahaha. cherry tomatoes ?
mircea_popescu: hanbot did that iirc.
davout: cherry tomatoes... lol.
davout: i'm growing roquette, mind you
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126984 << cartman's woodland creatures love you for it.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 16:28:19; williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Header image now 300kb not 2mb
mircea_popescu: how about going the full step and making it like 30k
jurov: or straight back to vectors. 3k then
fluffypony: davout: when I was in the USA I wanted to buy some for a pasta sauce I was making, took me 25 minutes at Whole Foods to figure out that they call it "arugula"
mircea_popescu: "Civilization in the New World has very deep and ancient roots." yeah, and like any case of micropenis, we gotta go digging for it VEEERY carefully.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126991 << myeah. except the "code red" is not what bitcointalk forum derps imagine it is. the code red is, has been for the entire history and likely will remain at least for a while simpler stuff like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126993
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 16:49:34; punkman: lol http://imgur.com/ost0xs5
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:00:47; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126958 << it won't work, because no one has, yet, a fully static build. see logs.
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: what d'yall call it?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's called rucola when i had it in my salmon sandwiches at that cafe
mircea_popescu: pretty much called rucola throughout europe, except for france.
ben_vulpes: this is true in sa as well?
mircea_popescu: well yes
mircea_popescu: thing's latin name's eruca.
mircea_popescu: (italian fashion, somehow teh usians got crazy over it at some point. like a self-flagellation tiramisu)
ben_vulpes: self-flagellation? rucola's delicious!
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: jurov: Yeah I'll redraw the whole image and make it SVG
mircea_popescu: but it's bitter/
mircea_popescu: williamdunne you drew that ?
williamdunne: Its from Iron Giant
davout: mircea_popescu: "my salmon sandwiches at that cafe" <<< and i'm the hipster?!
williamdunne: But I will draw it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53733 @ 0.00026476 = 14.2263 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: if rucola's bitter, then it's stale
mircea_popescu: davout hey, not my fault they know how to make a salmon and parmezan sammich.
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> mircea_popescu: jurov: Yeah I'll redraw the whole image and make it SVG << you know you don't *have* to do everything he says
mircea_popescu has kicked ben_vulpes for treason and undermining the national economy
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: It was already intended, so I could hide some lego in the image
ben_vulpes: at a certain point it'll turn into a game "hey williamdunne this is great but it's not going to fly without a photo of you with a shoe on your head"
jurov: yeah williamdunne is lost caouse,like, i have to explain to him i'm trolling him.
jurov: did you get the steg joke at last?
mircea_popescu: you make stag jokes ?
mircea_popescu: jurov, i never!
ben_vulpes: i think jurov has a crush
williamdunne: I didn't tbh :/
fluffypony: ben_vulpes: ROCKET
fluffypony: I was like "bro it's a herb, it's rocket. come now."
mircea_popescu: steganography is hiding messages inside images. and a crush is when a guy wants to put his wee wee in your... well...
fluffypony: and they were like "SORRY SIR, THE HOBBY STORE IS DOWN THE ROAD"
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:44:48; ben_vulpes: at a certain point it'll turn into a game "hey williamdunne this is great but it's not going to fly without a photo of you with a shoe on your head"
jurov: yea, i was implying the image was so big cuz you have hidden sth there
ben_vulpes: "my name is vermin/my name is vermin/vermin supreme supreme supreme/and you can vote/for me (if you want to)"...
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I'm really curious as to what decisions led to that photo
ben_vulpes: old counterscam lulz williamdunne
davout: the "network-imposed oppression chart" is pretty misleading
mircea_popescu: williamdunne nigeria was originally a booming oil economy, attracted a lot of people. then it went stale, and for a while throughout the 90s there was a large community of desperate, socially marginal young men, who took to playing internet con games. eventually there was some reaction in the shape of, "con the nigerians".
mircea_popescu: that pic among others is the result.
davout: sure, there are going to be problems for you if the transactions keep growing linearly like that, oh wait, it's a log scale, straight lines are actually exponentials
williamdunne: ah, countering the 419
williamdunne: gotcha
mircea_popescu: davout the amount of herd-herding that the usg has been putting into this is so incredibly useful because a) it really can't do anything but! b) it really does expose the tools.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do they think addressing themselves to a mathematically illiterate crowd is a valid avenue is entirely beyond my comprehension.
davout: mircea_popescu: because everybody understands extrapolating with straight lines
mircea_popescu: course, it's how that country is run, it's how the derps "in charge" got into office, it's the only thing they're tooled to do, and so to the man carrying a bad graph and some banal word tricks...
mircea_popescu: davout everyone that can't be in bitcoin, yes.
davout: yup
mircea_popescu: maybe they imagine that their "rape earth sciences" program worked, and maybe they imagine it worked because it was persuasive,
mircea_popescu: rather than because those people actually need their money.
davout: not sure i follow the "rape earth sciences"
mircea_popescu: "global warming".
mircea_popescu: you know, where the usg actually gained the ability to make bad graphs
ben_vulpes: "earth rape sciences"
mircea_popescu: before that it was just linguistic tricks.
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: AWESOME
mircea_popescu: if you care about anthropology, it's a great thing to watch, how the beast acquires skills. that was the major breakthrough there.
mircea_popescu: even before-r than that, in the 80s, all the left had was "accuse the other of bad things loudly and repeatedly. just that".
mircea_popescu: it progressed slightly from that, to word redefinitions in the 90s, and so on.
mircea_popescu: /end crash course.
ben_vulpes: i think earth rape sciences are great! they're expensive and produce absolutely nothing.
mircea_popescu: woot danielpbarron should be on your blog!
hanbot: danielpbarron: wtf is a "porcupine freedom festival"?!
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you're familiar with the supreme vermin?
davout: interesting
trinque: http://porcfest.com/ << says teh googles
assbot: PorcFest - The 12th Annual Porcupine Freedom Festival PorcFest ... ( http://bit.ly/1KykSUr )
mircea_popescu: hanbot something to do with cascadia!
trinque: actually "free state project" in New Hampshire
ben_vulpes: i need an emoji for when i want to raise an eyebrow at you mircea_popescu
trinque: the idea was you pack the state with enough gun-toting libertarians and things get better-ish
hanbot: oic. i was kinda hoping for porcupine interpretive dance or smthg ;/
trinque: danielpbarron: are you in NH?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126996 << you must live in a world very different than mine, where time's not linear or something.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:03:44; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126936 << one of the nice things about having the source, regardless of how idiotic the dev process which produced it, is cutting away the crud. which you can do with coreboot, just as with bitcoind etc.
mircea_popescu: i'm not about to give anything stupid the time of day in any sense, except perhaps to point and laugh at it if it's stupid enough.
hanbot: mircea_popescu is that the philosophy you apply to rewriting poems etc?
mircea_popescu: yes, actually.
mircea_popescu: auden wasn't bad, just not good enough. runcible doom wasn't bad, just not good enough
mircea_popescu: "It’s hard to think of another movie since then that’s been so quotable, so memorable, so widely watched, and has even aged as well as it has." << except star wars, star trek, most of manga...
mircea_popescu: weirdo geeks be weirdo.
mircea_popescu: "TV propogandist and etatist shill John Oliver"
mircea_popescu: not bad. popogandist!
mircea_popescu: like a sort of nonviolence proponent that takes it up the pooper.
jurov: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR davout, no liquidity since yest
mircea_popescu: jurov i see a trickle ?
davout: ah, i'll need to check on that
jurov: there were orders of 400 or so before
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127003 << there is going to be, eventually, yes. from us. in the usual manner.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:09:03; asciilifeform: decimation: i'd consider doing this, but doubt there is any serious demand
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:10:50; asciilifeform: several years ago, i bought the arm chipset chromebook and tried in vain, for ages, to install gentoo on it
williamdunne: jurov: The SVG is 900kb, lol
davout: jurov: blergh, my bot is apparently stuck, doesn't feel like starting up, i'll need to access the physical machine, which will happen in the next 24h
jurov: wow. you're running mpex bot directly on the iron?
davout: jurov: OS's are for hipsters
Azelphur: (07:31:47) mircea_popescu: !rate azelphur 1 Not seen for a while now.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: missing me? :P
mircea_popescu: somewhat lol. how goes ?
mircea_popescu: jurov he takes the "rails" bit literally.
Azelphur: Good, buried in work mostly, still working for Ragnar :)
davout: jurov: actually, for some reason it doesn't like being run in a screen session
ben_vulpes: pahaibgroqeuthg89pqu34ini3q4uhlte
jurov: using gpg 2.x perchance?
Azelphur: Actually working on electrum atm that said, it hates me because I'm British so I'm having to patch it
ben_vulpes: screen session for mpex bot
ben_vulpes: my tiny brain is blowed
mircea_popescu: Azelphur aha. well, it's an activity thing.
davout: jurov: no
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: yea, I'm not that active in this channel any more since I don't really hold any assets beyond bitcoin itself
davout: ben_vulpes: wai
jurov: yea, i use tmux likewise
davout: and, isn't it "blown" ? :D
ben_vulpes: i mean i don't know anything about keeping software up but like...runit? or something?
jurov: and gpg2 does not like when /dev/$stdin is not owned by current user
jurov: ben_vulpes: what would you do with passphrase?
ben_vulpes: or is this people trying to imitate the lispy "jack into running proc" thing with tmux/screen/mosh etc
ben_vulpes: jurov: aha
ben_vulpes goes for a walk
davout: ben_vulpes: yeah i guess i should, it just doesn't fail often enough for me to care
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:22:40; asciilifeform: as for the free world, it has -not one chip fab- to its name
mircea_popescu: looky, just because we're temporarily tolerating the kulaks means nothing. this is like saying the soviets had no factories to its name, 1915.
mircea_popescu: according to themselves, cca 1935, yes, they did.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127054 << no they don't. nobody, including the chinese, including putin, has any fucking idea what this even is, because they lack both the intellectual sophistication to comprehend what matters in the world and go seek the signs, and the power to actually have good advisors that do.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:27:12; asciilifeform: they do
mircea_popescu: the pretend-sovereigns are really not that good. that's all.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127058 << the funniest thing in this line to me is, argentina, which is way up there in the top of "ra ra ra patria si buitres no, ra ra ra" sovereignity derpage. here's where i laughed at them for using windows, and them HATING ME FOR IT!!11 http://www.reddit.com/r/argentina/comments/2g00cw/views_from_argentina_pe_trilema_un_blog_de_mircea/
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:28:51; asciilifeform: hence why ru missile controllers are built using ancient soviet arch, yes, but the fab is winblows-controlled and the design turns from circuit to mask also in winblows
assbot: Views from Argentina pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. : argentina ... ( http://bit.ly/1zQKXOe )
mircea_popescu: it's very funny this, they would rather want "sovereignity on windows" than "independence from windows".
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127272 << but you are. when running closed-source idiot winblows-designed biosen which can't even embed kernel
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:59:40; mircea_popescu: i'm not about to give anything stupid the time of day in any sense, except perhaps to point and laugh at it if it's stupid enough.
asciilifeform: the idiocy of cpp bitcoind is not an excuse to use 'liberty dollar' etc.
mircea_popescu: myeah. this is true.
mircea_popescu: i cope with it solipsistically, which is to say, "until it gets in my way it doesn't exist. once it does, ima burn it"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127075 << let us examine this claim. it is a claim worth examining.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:35:26; asciilifeform: just the 'palace economy' you inherently get, from a chip fab costing what it costs
mircea_popescu: so, what's a fab cost ? like 10bn or so, say ? less, but anyway. what's the current print rate ? 10x that A MONTH or so ? at least as far as documented (most monetary expansion happens in the dark anyway, it was recently rechristened as "big bank fraud" temporarily, but it is not nor ever was that - most monetary expansion is regulated by the banks)
mircea_popescu: does this then mean that the us generates 10 more fabs each month ? no.
mircea_popescu: does it mean they could ? no, it does not. the proposition is of the kind of "apple shares could buy all of russia". no, they COULD NOT.
mircea_popescu: so then... what exactly does a fab cost ?
mircea_popescu: and moreover, once la serenissima expands - A LITTLE (in comparative tersm) - what's to say it won't be able to afford this ?
mircea_popescu: most of the cost is not the machinery.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very glad you asked. because this is 'teachable moment'
asciilifeform: the 'fab costs $1B' is merely a -symptom- of the real problem
asciilifeform: it costs $1B because there are six people who can honcho a fab
asciilifeform: and so they can charge $B.
mircea_popescu: what happens once they're all here ?
asciilifeform: then ragnarok
mircea_popescu: so then.
mircea_popescu: it costs nothing - to us.
mircea_popescu: it costs the world to them.
mircea_popescu: the latter part is already implemented.
mircea_popescu: plan proceeds as planned.
asciilifeform: except they'll be here shortly after 'here' can even afford to feed the secretary catgurl.
mircea_popescu: "looky, just because we're temporarily tolerating the kulaks means nothing. this is like saying the soviets had no factories to its name, 1915."
mircea_popescu: this is not actually true. we could, she didn't want to.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, she was saved from ending up in the street by someone here iirc.
asciilifeform: ^ hm, i missed this
asciilifeform: in log ?
mircea_popescu: yeah at the time. she needed a house.
mircea_popescu: moreover, this is entirely not related. things don't scale like this.
asciilifeform: don't scale - down ?
asciilifeform: or what
mircea_popescu: "my wife couldn't even give birth to an eggplant, what hope is there she could make me an heir"
mircea_popescu: cunts make kids not vegetables, and things don't scale like this.
asciilifeform: anyway, 'they' aren't here because they are over in that other place where work - with however much friction and statal theft in the loop, sure - turns into food, houses, coke, etc. see also http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1zQNuYF )
asciilifeform: nobody's about to pour and slice a Si boule as volunteer.
asciilifeform: not because it is difficult, but because the folks who could afford to - are far too busy with selecting the right cocaine and whores for their atomic dirigible voyage.
mircea_popescu: how much coke do you snort ?
mircea_popescu: then the fuck do you care ?
asciilifeform: example.
mircea_popescu: that system works for derp force the 4th. who is, in all terms, worthless.
asciilifeform: i snort a good bit of food, house.
mircea_popescu: exactly. perfect example.
asciilifeform: i very much get the 'we don't want time-servers, clock-watchers' thing
asciilifeform: but soldiers who can't eat - can't fight.
mircea_popescu: the only thing of any import in there was the cocaine.
mircea_popescu: any merely functional live thing will get its own food and shelter. it's the basis of life.
asciilifeform: so far this is handled by ben_vulpes, yours truly, et al being 'stainless steel rats' who scrounge enough fiat in the secular world to run on
mircea_popescu: a pika can do this
asciilifeform: but this principle fails when you're talking about molten Si
asciilifeform: or nukes, etc
mircea_popescu: nukes are, in this discussion, theatrical props. we need them like i need a prince albert.
asciilifeform: this again rides on the assumption that physical concentrations of people are strictly something that enemy does, and never us
asciilifeform: even mongol horde, the ultimate 'towns are for lusers' gold standard - had physical concentration.
mircea_popescu: only on teir net
asciilifeform: if 'serene republic' ever had any costly physical plant whatsoever - then nukes.
mircea_popescu: understand : the "physical concentration" of mongols was EXACTL:Y like what we do here.
mircea_popescu: it was misperceived by their enemies as "actual", which is how their tactics worked.
mircea_popescu: what happened once infantry charged ?
mircea_popescu: their "physical" concentration proved to be virtual.
asciilifeform: dispersed, sure.
asciilifeform: now disperse a chip fab.
mircea_popescu: working on it.
mircea_popescu: (not me, you are.)
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:29:30; asciilifeform: which is why i suspect we'll be crafting discrete logic cpu again before this is all over.
asciilifeform: it is interesting to contemplate what is the most expensive piece of technology involved in this circus
asciilifeform: so far, i've reached a possibly surprising conclusion - it is -time-
asciilifeform: i can, barely, afford, e.g., electron microscope. or the parts to build an ion beam machine. but what i cannot even remotely afford is the -time-.
mircea_popescu: time is traditionalyl solved by adding people.
asciilifeform: can't speak for other hardware folks here - e.g., ben_vulpes - but suspect they might answer same.
asciilifeform: adding people works for some things, but, apparently, not everything.
mircea_popescu: adfding people works provided i'm in charge of it.
mircea_popescu: people have nfi how to add people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will take your word for this. now unsheath your magic wand and summon a couple of devils to unfrag bitcoind
mircea_popescu: which is unsurprising. for all the dire straights ee, or law, or anything else finds itself in, management is the worst.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i told you people have nfi how it works :D
asciilifeform: the ultimate failure is that adding people is guaranteed not to work for 'fits in head'.
asciilifeform: this is 100% of my 'unified theory' of computing.
asciilifeform: take, or leave - that is the explanation behind all of the retardation we know as 'computing'
asciilifeform: aka the '9 women in parallel to make baby in 1 month' theorem.
asciilifeform out to meatspace for a spell
jurov: there was a fab "tesla piestany" in czechoslovakia able to make 8080 or uart clones
jurov: got bought by motorola, then "on semiconductor"
jurov: and in 2008 closed and moved to the US or wherever
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127250 < I remember watching some derpy 'global warming gonna kill us by 2000' documentary as a kid in the 80's. I remember feeling cognitive dissonance when I looked outside and saw that the weather was fine
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:54:17; mircea_popescu: even before-r than that, in the 80s, all the left had was "accuse the other of bad things loudly and repeatedly. just that".
trinque: climates change; that's what they do
trinque: makes me wonder whether the "climate change" meme exists because people wish humans had that much control over their destiny
mircea_popescu: trinque more like, because the derps are by now persuaded that they do.
trinque: yeah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not that guaranteed. depends where and how the addition happens.
mircea_popescu: the original unix " small program for small job" is exactly an attempt to turn the foregoing into an engineering rule of thumb
mircea_popescu: and not a bad one atthat
decimation: someone beggin' for a kick?
mircea_popescu: ;;seen cryptogoon
gribble: cryptogoon was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 29 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <CryptoGoon> thnx
decimation: re: 'fits in head' < in other words the 'mythical man month' more-or-less
decimation: asciilifeform: perhaps part of your problem (re: make ur own fab) is that you are attempting to 'speak with a sword'
decimation: so of course only your time will advance the mission
jurov: no i understood it generally as "anyone's time"
decimation: jurov: but if it were 'anyone's time' than the existing fabs would be kosher?
jurov: but that "anyone" does not see any advantage switching their job for this
assbot: Anonymous Tor Cloud project closes down ... ( http://bit.ly/1E0TsBy )
decimation: jurov: yes indeed. extremely low cost electronic copying has created the tryanny of 'unintentional monopoly', where the first solution that 'works' gets copied to everyone and becomes the defacto standard
jurov: same thing, basically
decimation: it's difficult to think how about how to escape this even in principle
decimation: in the tor cloud case, one cannot simply 'run an ec2 host' for nearly free like one can crib another's c code
jurov: decimation: but you see money is not a problem here?
jurov: there are admins who know how to do it. just.. not interested
jurov: also, there are people who know how to put together 500nm fab, just.. not interested
decimation: admins still need money to pay for bandwidth, servers
decimation: yes, there are those who could re-create the fab design toolchain ascii mentioned, but I suppose it is the case that they couldn't be bothered
jurov: 10 ec2 servers + bw can be had for $100/mo, perhaps.
decimation: apparently they are too poor to pay that, and nobody else gave a fuck
jurov: but this installation and patching etc. is what is priceless
decimation: jurov: do you run the standard aws linux distro or do you have a fully custom image?
jurov: tried both
decimation: my understanding is that 'amazon linux' is basically rhel
jurov: no it's centos
decimation: yeah, same difference now, redhat acquired centos
jurov: but debian/ubuntu/suse is supported in the same way
jurov: i can see alf's point that generally, such things are done only as "bigger cock" exercise.
decimation: what, the tor cloud?
jurov: tor cloud, independent fabs, whatever
decimation: yeah, there is something to that. it does seem like pure market competition will lead to monopoly, and it takes a sovereign to say 'do it this way or hang'
jurov: by the way, mircea_popescu: is BISP okay with tor exit nodes?
decimation: does this mean that pure capitalism tends to fragile oligarchy while government direction of the economy leads to a greater diversity of economic practices?
jurov: if it was that simple
jurov: http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/ << decimation refer to here, too
assbot: That scary thing on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1E0UOfB )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25326 @ 0.00025977 = 6.5789 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: jurov: yes, that article is related. hopefully someone will figure out a model
mircea_popescu: jurov yes.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i just laid a claim on a SIZABLE deposit of wooly mushroom in eulora.
mircea_popescu: this is the greatest mining find to date !
mircea_popescu: needs like... 6 escherian trestleworks among other things to build the fucking mine.
mircea_popescu: this game i'm the only one that can play is FUCKING GREAT
mircea_popescu: got my pulse up at any rate.
assbot: Microsoft to stop producing Windows versions - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1E0VWzK )
jurov: "Moving to a situation in which Windows is a constantly updated service will break out of this cycle, and let Microsoft tinker more with the software to test new features and see how customers like them"
jurov: of course
chetty: <mircea_popescu> this game i'm the only one that can play is FUCKING GREAT//meanie
decimation: right, the new model is 'pay us monthly fer yer warez'
trinque: I see no way this permanent umbilical cord to redmond could go wrong.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: LET ME PLAYYYY
mircea_popescu: NO FIRST I MUST eAT ALL THE CAKES
ben_vulpes: but leave caek plz
mircea_popescu: srsly ben, final tests of finality, we're still finding some bugs but its pretty sparse.
mircea_popescu: by now it's mostly "shit, another bug. no, wait a minute, this is the right thing."
mircea_popescu: and there WILL be a juicy event to reward the patience and help people set up themselves. so.
ben_vulpes revs crystalspace compiler
mircea_popescu: bonus lulz : dulce the leche is a thing.
mircea_popescu: i need 1, it's in the recipe for the wooly mushroom mine.
chetty: good idea, we have changed the version so you will be needing a new cs
jurov: should i prod the windows guy?
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah.
mircea_popescu: this shit costs 6 * 3161167 + 40 * 45110 + 45 * 1165 + 4 * 8824 + 1 * 8824 + 10 *1484 + 1 * 23877 = 20906664 satoshi to build.
mircea_popescu: better be worth it.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127269 << nah, I just went for the festival last year and I'm going again this year
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:58:41; trinque: danielpbarron: are you in NH?
ben_vulpes: chetty: what's the new version?
ben_vulpes: of cs, that is
trinque: danielpbarron: cool. the free state project's somewhat interesting; I'm doubtful though that the whole 20k will move when that number's "reached"
trinque: and of course, the thing will still be entirely within the influence of the federal govt still
chetty: Rev: 39798
danielpbarron: the project is pretty dumb and so are most of the people involved in it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82800 @ 0.00025623 = 21.2158 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: i'm going for the poker mostly
assbot: What is hindering hyperbitcoinization and some ideas for “the killer app” : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RstUaU )
trinque: danielpbarron: heh! that's a much better reason
danielpbarron: there's a guy from seals that brings his own custom made table
trinque: "Since I have neither money nor knowledge to build something myself"
trinque: jurov: ^ that about covers it
trinque: this reads like some stoner fuck trying to tell me his app ideas, lol
trinque: "dude dude, all you have to do is write this app and we'll be rich"
jurov: imma totally use that word for eulora review, "hyperbitconinized"
jurov: damn, it's even impossible to type correctly
ben_vulpes: "Warning: Can't synchronize with the repository (Couldn't open Subversion repository /home/crystal/scm/crystal: SubversionException: ("Expected FS format between '1' and '3'; found format '4'", 160043))."
trinque: hnnnnnnnnggg
jurov: lol, i realized literally 2 days ago i moved eulora off ssd to free some space
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127174 <<< you never get that sweet then peppery taste with store bought rocket, i doubt many people even know what it really tastes like
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:33:12; davout: i'm growing roquette, mind you
mircea_popescu: trinque > jurov: ^ that about covers it << seriously, reddit, who cares.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127231 <<< 419 eater in other words.. how do these kids not know about such things? :\
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:49:36; williamdunne: ah, countering the 419
scoopbot_revived: Why did blacks stop caring about respectability and acceptability in USistan ? Because there's none to be had. http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/10/why-did-blacks-stop-caring-about-respectability-and-acceptability-in-usistan-because-theres-none-to-be-had/
chetty: its worse than not caring, black kids are scroned for even trying in school, the get told they are acting too white
mircea_popescu: not sure how actually widespread that is.
trinque: I dunno that it goes beyond "this is what disorganized poverty looks like"
trinque: plenty of useless white hoodlums in the south too
mats: mircea_popescu: are you planning to keep the courts project open?
mircea_popescu: not much longer, no.
mircea_popescu: was kinda wanting to see if anyone wants to go through those, get an independent evaluation in.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127112 << you can do this only if you're cool, which is to say if you have interesting shit to do.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:48:14; decimation: but on the flip side you can print scrip and force your subjects to honor it
mircea_popescu: just like you can be the life of the party and command everyone's attention for as long as you're being riveting ; just as long as you can tell women to suck your cock for just as long as it's a juicy cock to suck.
mircea_popescu: just like the us was a thing back when that guy they shot had a mission
mircea_popescu: be it conquer the south or the moon, but a mission, see. something interesting to do.
mircea_popescu: you cant just print scrip because you got a scrip printer. that's not how it works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100550 @ 0.00025823 = 25.965 BTC [+]
assbot: Startup ’21 Inc’ Wants to Put Bitcoin Miner in Toaster | CoinSpeaker ... ( http://bit.ly/1JABoDe )
mircea_popescu: toaster is kinda dumb, but ceramic tiles for warm floor is worth doing.
mircea_popescu: just make a power and internet hook=up so that each tile can in principle power/be powered by and connect/be connected by each of its 4 neighbours.
mircea_popescu: then lay them out, and power/internet one side of the wall.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127133 <<< i think you drastically overestimate the military importance of nuclear weapons.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:59:24; jurov: su was bad at that
mircea_popescu: contrary to what is generally propagandized, there isn't a way to use them effectually on the field. the only effectual use for them is in mass media.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103450 @ 0.00025972 = 26.868 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: consider the following math : uranium reserves, about 6*10^9 kgs. about 0.1% of this is usable for the purpose. uranium molar mass is ~250 [grams/mol] which means ~ 6*10^9 * 1000/250 * 6*10^23 atoms in total. meanwhile energy output is ~200 MeV per event. your total ideal available energy is thus ~1.44 * 10^32 eV. meanwhile land surface is ~1.50 * 10 ^ 14 sqm. So you get a total of ~10*17 eV per square meter, or a litt
mircea_popescu: le less than a Joule-cent. well done... who cares ?
mircea_popescu: save a few acres, make yourself a cup of tea.
mircea_popescu: (note that i didn't even bother with using the fact that 99.9% of uranium is not more fissile than lead, nor the fact that you will never actually manage to bust up ALL the atoms)
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:55:59; asciilifeform: that's the thing, the 'increasingly sees as pointless' was after things turned 'rational'
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1H8EjCO )
mircea_popescu: This would also be why I don't think so very much of the libertards, and why I find myself so often in contradiction with people who view them as either powerful or in any sense a threat (usually both) : they aren't, either, nor could they really be, either, because the only tool they know actually works for them only a short distance of its run, and for us the entire length of that same run. The libertard's gambit is
mircea_popescu: essentially the position of the Catholic church, hoping that it may teach people to read and write in such a way that they'll actually continue to take the "Holy Scripture" seriously. Why would they ? They won't, they don't, it's just not how that works.
mircea_popescu: thatr's exactly what it is. the whole thing that made usg work makes us work. it'll make us great long after it buried it.
mircea_popescu: exactly the us-su dynamic.
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1H8EopW )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126650 @ 0.00026541 = 33.6142 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00025548 = 4.3176 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: williamdunne yo scoop's dead.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 195730 @ 0.00025533 = 49.9757 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101000 @ 0.00025397 = 25.651 BTC [-] {3}
scoopbot_revived: I think you drastically overestimate the military importance of nuclear weapons. http://trilema.com/2015/i-think-you-drastically-overestimate-the-military-importance-of-nuclear-weapons/
ben_vulpes: "people are no longer motivated by appeals to broader, more abstract values, that what motivates them are more narrow, survival-oriented approaches" << http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/05/resilience-is-the-new-black.html subconsciously, everyone knows what's coming
assbot: Resilience is The New Black | naked capitalism ... ( http://bit.ly/1bITabO )
decimation: re: uranium < http://www.withouthotair.com/c24/page_163.shtml < this guy says there are 4.5 bil tons of U in the oceans (4E12 kg)
assbot: Ch 24 Page 163: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1bIUgEq )
decimation: so your estimate might be off by about 1000 if you include that. Also presumably most of the 'heavy hitter' bombs would use heavy water fusion secondaries
decimation: or lithium deuteride rather
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55500 @ 0.00025551 = 14.1808 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: !up copumpkin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65083 @ 0.00025173 = 16.3833 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142628 @ 0.00024686 = 35.2091 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56731 @ 0.00024326 = 13.8004 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29316 @ 0.00024326 = 7.1314 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10470 @ 0.00025551 = 2.6752 BTC [+]
williamdunne: Gavin is now also advocating for 1 minute blocks
williamdunne: Anyone want to ask him if he thinks we should implement X11ScryptDark++ too?
decimation: hell add on google protocol buffers too
williamdunne: Might as well port the DB to MongoDB while we're at it
mircea_popescu: !up livegnik
mircea_popescu: decimation yes, they are. gl taking it out.
mircea_popescu: in the same sense there's a shitton of gold.
livegnik: Thnx mircea_popescu . I'll be off in 30 minutes or so, and haven't been able to get sirius in here yet. Both pretty busy atm, but sure he'll join us some other time.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne because clearly 1 minute blocks are so helpful to ltc it already tookover.
mircea_popescu: wtf is with these idiots. don't they realise just how obvious their agenda becomes from all the failures ? "we gotta fuck up bitcoin. o, i know, let's make the blocks larger. wait, mp said no. i know, make the timing shorter. one way or another, must destroy the decentralisation!!11"
mircea_popescu: livegnik np.
mircea_popescu: #b-a is eternal.
williamdunne: Na thats 2.5 minute blocks, so this is like 2.5 litecoins. And there are double as many litecoins as there are bitcoins so this idea is worth what, 105,000,000 bitcoins?
livegnik: Anything else I might be able to explain about Identifi? I remember that there were some more questions last time after I left.
mircea_popescu: at least.
williamdunne: I think I've been hearing about identifi recently, let me check I'm on about the right thing one sec
livegnik: Sure thing.
livegnik: http://identifi.org is our not-up-to-date website. The proto-type of what a front end *could* look like can be found on http://identi.fi/. The proto-type of the back-end can be found here: https://github.com/identifi/identifi
assbot: Identifi - Address book with ratings ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGr2ay )
assbot: Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGr2aP )
assbot: identifi/identifi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGr2rj )
williamdunne: Ah okay, not what I was hearing about. Still interested tho so give me a sec to read-up again on it
livegnik: Sure thing.
mircea_popescu: decimation anyway, the important point in all of that is the natural insolation on ground is to the degree of 20 MJ/day.
livegnik: williamdunne: Here's a human readable (very summarized) version of what it does: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/
assbot: Unbit.nl - Martti Malmi on Bitcoin & Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGraH8 )
livegnik: We don't have a whitepaper yet. Working on it though. It would be much easier to grasp the concept with some details on the data format, database design, network topology, etc.
williamdunne: WhitePapers are overrated
williamdunne: Can I have a link to your profile, I wanna see the rating system?
mircea_popescu: livegnik you'd be much better served getting in the wot than writing white papers. experimentally, nobody reads thoise.
mircea_popescu: especially if they're a pdf.
williamdunne: livegnik: Looks ok I guess, rating system and account system seems pretty 'tarded atm
livegnik: williamdunne: Sure. Just don't stare at the front-end too much, it's only to give you an idea. The real magic happens on the back-end; the daemon.
assbot: Identifi - Tim Pastoor ... ( http://bit.ly/1bJ1F6K )
williamdunne: Take it back
livegnik: mircea_popescu: I agree. I'm no academic nor coder, so I'm not even gonna give it a shot.
williamdunne: It isn't so tarded, just the search function
livegnik: Yeah, it's an early alpha.
livegnik: It's nothing special, if you'd ask me.
williamdunne: The self-rate things are a bit odd
livegnik: You can do RPC calls on the back-end, basically how you can do it with bitcoind
livegnik: The self-rate thing is verifying identifiers (which are called "connections" there). By verifying an identifier you add said identity + that identifier to your WoT.
livegnik: That's just an example.
livegnik: I could add an identifier like that and get a verifaction from my bank and/or social network that way.
williamdunne: Mmm adding them as rates seems awkward, should be separate. Also gives a false sense of security
livegnik: They're not the rates.
livegnik: Identifiers are what construct the identity. The ratings are apart from that.
williamdunne: Shows up on the received part either way
livegnik: You can only up/down-vote the identifiers themselves. Next, you can say anything about them under ratings.
livegnik: So there's the ID part and the reputation part.
mircea_popescu: the entire thing would drastically benefit from getting the people involved here. it has fundamental problems which are apparently difficult to grasp. whatever they may think they're doing with their time that's a better use, isn't.
williamdunne: Feels a bit awkward. I like the idea but it feels like crap
livegnik: I like the analogy of an electronic Rolodex. It's dissimilar to the extent that it wasn't shared as easily among all trusted parties.
livegnik: The system doesn't only consist of the identities within the digital Rolodex, but also of all the claims that have been made about them,
livegnik: by any other (1st to infinite degree) party at any time. This information should at least make it much easier for any party to decide for themselves what is best for them.
livegnik: williamdunne: that's why I said not to stare at identi.fi too much, it's basically meant for demo-purposes, to explain the back-end.
livegnik: mircea_popescu: Not sure what you're trying to point there for sure, but one of the reasons I've joined this channel is because there are probably a few people who have thought extensively about this topic.
mircea_popescu: "I agree. I'm no academic nor coder" << basically, you're trying to sell something. the problem is that the thing you're trying to sell has problems. send the engineers that made it instead.
livegnik: As long as it doesn't go in-depth concerning the technicals, a good salesman should at least be able to discuss the concept, right?
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, apparently 'our' knowledge of uranium reserves are quite limited. people haven't been trying to mine uranium for thousands of years (like gold)
mircea_popescu: depends with whom.
livegnik: If something goes in-depth too far for me, I'll definitely let you know to get in touch with sirius about it.
livegnik: You can join #identifi to get in touch with sirius directly.
livegnik: So, as a salesman, I might sell it as supernode Rollodex, relaying information among trusted parties.
mircea_popescu: !gettrust sirius
assbot: sirius is not registered in WoT.
livegnik: I prefer evangelist though. I'm way too stoked about our product to be a regular salesguy.
decimation: mircea_popescu: incidentally, uranium fission is the only non-mass-polluting technology that can deliver first world level energy to the entire population for a thousand years
mircea_popescu: it is pretty polluting.
decimation: every nuclear bomb made represents a massive waste of potential energy production
decimation: how? heavy metals in a water bath?
mircea_popescu: not really, unless it's actually fired, the stuff can be reclaimed (and has, on a grand scale - that's what START is really all about)
mircea_popescu: decimation most of them use the thin walled sphere with boron chain fillings. they can be safely dismantled.
decimation: well, sure but it would have been more efficient to use it at lower enrichment levels in the first place
mircea_popescu: eh, waste is what life's all about.
decimation: "At 25 ml per
decimation: year, a lifetime?s worth of high-level nuclear waste would amount to less
decimation: than 2 litres. Even when we multiply by 60 million people, the lifetime vol-
decimation: ume of nuclear waste doesn?t sound unmanageable: 105 000 cubic metres.
decimation: That?s the same volume as 35 olympic swimming pools. "
decimation: shit my new irc client doesn't rate limit my pastes :(
assbot: Ch 24 Page 170: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGviHl )
mircea_popescu: 60 mn ? what's wrong with 60bn ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, a cubic kilometer of very poisonous stuff sounds pretty unmanageable./
decimation: well, he was writing about the uk
decimation: "Compare this 25 ml per year per person of high-level nuclear waste with the other traditional forms of waste we currently dump: municipal waste 517 kg per year per person; hazardous waste 83 kg per year per year"
mircea_popescu: "hazardous waste" is old monitors.
assbot: Logged on 11-05-2015 02:21:20; williamdunne: Gavin is now also advocating for 1 minute blocks
assbot: gavinandresen comments on Please remind me once again why we can't decrease the time interval between blocks instead of increasing their size ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGvUww )
mircea_popescu: the only way it'll kill you is by falling on your head.
mircea_popescu: there's a very simple way to decrease interval between blocks : gavin can just go buy some miners and stfu.
mircea_popescu: if the need is there, the fix is obvious. pay more per btc, so miners get more mining done, so more txn get in per day.
mircea_popescu: if the need isn't there... i guess go derp on reddit about things of great interest and matters of great import.
mod6: here's today's update on v0.5.3.1+Orphanage_Thermonuke: http://dpaste.com/1TX25HH.txt
decimation: the alternative to nuclear fission is to emit radiation via coal burning
mircea_popescu: how does that work ?
mircea_popescu: lead, mercury etc are the problem, not radiation
decimation: "Uranium and thorium have concentrations of roughly 1 ppm and
decimation: 2 ppm respectively in coal."
decimation: plus I like to eat bluefin tuna, and coal emissions are ruining it
mircea_popescu: eh, welfare is ruining it.
assbot: Coal Ash | Radiation Protection | US EPA ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGyNgO )
mircea_popescu: if the peons didn't have the printing folk to give them free money, they wouldn't afford bluefin tuna.
decimation: well, that's no reason to piss mercury into the ocean
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00024942 = 10.6876 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: looky, mercury is heavy. it'll go to the bottom.
mircea_popescu: this happens naturally as well. it's what it does.
decimation: so to be clear, it's your position that it's better w.r.t. to "pollution" for electricity to come from coal vice nuclear fission?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00024326 = 5.8869 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: better requires some criteria.
decimation: well, my favorite criteria are "pollution sits in a pool" rather than "pollution is spammed over planet's surface"
mircea_popescu: i suspect coal is much clenaner then.
mircea_popescu: take a look at fukishima to understand this problem.
decimation: uranium is heavy; it'll go to the bottom.
mircea_popescu: also, consider that a comparison of new nuclear with old coal is pretty stupid. you're not advertising deployument of 1970s soviet nuclear plants. consequently, you don't get to compare to 1950s coal plants.
mircea_popescu: the modern liquefied coal stuff is actually pretty clean
mircea_popescu: in unrelated tinfoil hat fodder : i dunno if anyone remembers the one time world came closest to nuclear war (1983), or the fate of kal-007. the thing is tho, the russians at the time claimed the bad flightpath was deliberate provocation, and that the cia had warned nixon not to go with that flight.
mircea_popescu: this seemed pretty ridiculous at the time, and perhaps it is. or perhaps it's part of a playbook, and the same strategy was later used to try and "turn public opinion" in the ukraine.
assbot: Logged on 11-05-2015 00:08:52; mircea_popescu: sheeeit i should have linked http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/#selection-151.0-157.386 instead. gotta learn to use this great tool now!
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1cGCbIz )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron how did it not work ?
danielpbarron: doesn't jump down to that part of the page and doesn't select the text
danielpbarron: it works for you?
mircea_popescu: yup, just tried.
danielpbarron: i can produce other urls that do work
mircea_popescu: and no js errors pop up.
danielpbarron: browser bug on my end then i guess
danielpbarron: 151.0 makes it start the selection at the "xii" footnote link
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